Latest / The Daily Writer / How to Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Lead with Purpose | Dennis W. Pullin

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How to Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Lead with Purpose | Dennis W. Pullin · The Daily Writer

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the themes that you'll notice again and again on this podcast is that I'm a big fan of learning from people outside of the book world in the publishing industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now, as much as I love hanging around those people and I do it all day, almost every day, there's a couple of reasons why I think it's important to get outside of that world.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, this podcast is for writers who want to become more profitable, whether you're a hobbyist or whether you're part-time or full-time.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Main idea of the show is that we all want to grow our business, right?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so as much as I love hanging around writers and book people, and I'm the book nerd through and through, I think it's really important to get outside of that sphere at least once in a while.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: And again, there's a couple of reasons for this.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, if you spend all day talking to people who are just like you with the same set of concerns and issues, you're gonna tend to view the world through that lens.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe that you'll start to lack empathy and understanding for people who are different than you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: And when you come to a place in your life when you start to lack empathy and understanding, that's when you get into real trouble.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, second of all, I believe that your most creative ideas will come from sources that are outside of your natural ecosystem.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, the very nature of creative thinking demands that we get outside of our typical ways of thinking and doing things and instead step into another person's shoes for a while so we can see things from a different perspective.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, this is a huge reason why I do ghostwriting in the first place.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, not only is it a fantastic career, so obviously, you know, there's a lot of things in life that we enjoy that are not career-based, but I feel really lucky because I get to do something that I love and something that I'm really good at, and it's something that also helps me grow as an individual.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And ghostwriting is one of the primary ways that I get to interact with amazing business leaders, executives, and creative thinkers.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also a way to ensure that I keep getting exposed to new ideas and perspectives.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I think that's really, really important, especially if you want to get into something like ghostwriting.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to be able to empathize with other people's point of view and see things from their perspective.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And writing books for people is one of the ways that I keep that muscle really strong in my life.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, all that leads me, as sort of by way of introduction to our guest today.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thrilled to share this conversation with Dennis Pullen, who is the president and CEO of Virtua Health, an academic health system in New Jersey that offers a full continuum of preventative, primary, ambulatory, acute, and tertiary care across more than 400 locations.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Virtua Health is a$3 billion organization with more than 16,000 employees.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: As a recognized thought leader, published author, and advocate for health equity, Dinners was named one of the top 10 healthcare leaders in the United States by Healthcare Digital in 2024.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: The year before, Modern Healthcare selected him as one of the top 25 innovators in healthcare and one of the 100 most influential people in the industry nationwide.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And prior to that, Modern Healthcare recognized him as one of the nation's top 25 diversity leaders in healthcare on three separate occasions.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Since 2020, Dennis has hosted the award-winning Here for Good podcast, where he engages in meaningful conversations with transformational leaders and virtual colleagues about how they create a positive impact on the world around them.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And nearly 100 episodes have been recorded and released to date.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm thrilled that Dennis joins me to talk about his brand new book called Student for Leadership: How to Show Up with Purpose to Have a Lasting Impact.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the book compiles two dozen of the most important life lessons that Dennis has learned in his years of leadership.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And the book is not just for people in healthcare.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Every leader at every level will benefit from the book, which is a really fun, practical read.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I gotta say, it was an absolute blast to collaborate with Dennis on his book, and I am super thrilled to share this conversation with you.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: In this conversation, we talk about several topics, including what Dennis' day-to-day life looks like as a healthcare CEO, how to deal with imposter syndrome, how to reconnect with your purpose whenever you're feeling stuck, what he learned as a healthcare leader going through the COVID crisis, and his advice for writers who want to stand out as an expert in a crowded space.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, again, I gotta say this conversation was an absolute blast, and I encourage you to check out his amazing book, Suited for Leadership.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of good lessons for writers and leaders of all kinds.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, this is the very first episode of our Summer Expert Series, which features three interview episodes per week through the months of July and August.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm super excited to bring you these life-changing conversations, and I'm even more honored that Dennis Pullen is our very first interview in this series.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get right into our conversation with Dennis Pullen.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Dennis, it's so good to have you here on the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is sort of unusual for me to have someone who is uh a CEO on the show.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Typically, we feature a lot of interviews with writers and creative types.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is kind of a first in a way.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: So super excited to have you on.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for making time to do this.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Kent, thanks for inviting me.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's my pleasure to be here and always look forward to engaging with you.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we were connected by our mutual friend Laura DeFranco, and you have a new book out, Suited for Leadership, which is a phenomenal read.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the storytelling in it, and I love reading your story of how you just over the decades have gone on to be this highly successful CEO.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just really, really love this book.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to just dive into your journey a bit on leadership and why you wrote a book and some other kind of related things.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe this would be a good place to start with with all of the things that we have available today.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Social media, podcasts, you know, which we're obviously recording one right now.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um short form media, all kinds of other things.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you feel like this was the right time in your life to not just put out a book telling your story and teaching some leadership principles, but why a book?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: What what role do you think that books still have in today's world because of all the other things that we have out there?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just kind of curious if you can share your thought process with us.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think part of my answer, uh, you just said so, right now there is just a plethora of platforms for information.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I serve as the president and CEO of a health system.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that we suffer from as an industry, when you think about healthcare, is trust right now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we we we're challenged with trust because of there are so many outlets for information.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So people have at their fingertips, you know, just an array of information, which is a good thing on one hand, but it's also a bad thing because um there's a lot of misinformation out there as well.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so we struggle with providing people with a source of truth.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as the president and CEO of a health system, I felt a responsibility to put myself in a position such that I could be viewed in many ways as a source of truth.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: When people are looking for information, they want to have a place that they could turn to where they know it's gonna be evidence-based, it's gonna be scientifically based, that they can get great information.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when the opportunity presented itself for me to write this book, I one, I had to think long and hard about it because I was very intimidating, you know, thinking, well, who would want to read something that I would write?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt it was an opportunity to really share some of the lessons that I've learned, lessons that I live by.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And now, fortunately, because of the position I'm in, lessons that I'm able to teach.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought a book would be the perfect way of bringing that to a much larger audience.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's been interesting to talk with you, and thank you for that, by the way.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: I that's gosh, what a what a beautiful and thoughtful reply to that question.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you've been a little surprised by the reception of the book over the last few weeks.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm not surprised at all because you're a wonderful storyteller.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that the way that you have structured and laid out the book makes it easy for people to go through it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: The chapters are short.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the you've kind of baked in some elements to the book that I think make it easy for people to enjoy it and read it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: What has been some of the most surprising things that have come about since the book has been out into the world?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in terms of people reading it who maybe you were surprised that read it or places the books have the book has gone, those kind of things.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first and foremost is that my two kids read it.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of blew me away that I was able to get them to read it.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been I've been trying for the last 15 years to convince my kids that I was a big ass deal.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think writing the book has finally sort of gotten me over the over the hurdle there.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But but no, I I think the thing that has been the biggest surprise is the impact that it has had on people that have truly surprised me.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I I just mentioned my kids reading it, and I've been trying to convince them that I was a big ass deal for the last 15 years.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually have a chapter in the book that speaks to that being a big deal.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had a young lady that approached me that had read the book, and honestly, she has a pretty substantial position with a ton of responsibilities and a lot of people that report to her.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And she told me how that chapter really did something to her, and it actually brought her to tears.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: She said, because she had struggled for many years embracing the magnitude of her position.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And her husband and her family have always tried to get her to lean into the fact that, you know what, she was a pretty big deal.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: But she was always hesitant about it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when she read the book and read the chapter, and her husband read the chapter, she said, you know, it was reaffirming to her that it was okay to embrace the space that she now occupies, and that she could accept the fact that, well, you know what?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've accomplished some things.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm now in a position where I can move the needle for people, for process, for business.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I am a big deal.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she's telling me this in tears.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she's telling me that she was able to really connect.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just one example that that I have run into that people have shared with me, um, that the book has sort of touched them in a way.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's been surprising to me.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I like I said, I was hopeful that somebody would just read the book.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now being made aware that people are actually connecting with it on a level that is quite frankly, was very surprising to me.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think one of the one of the reasons that the book has resonated with people so deeply is because you talk a lot about purpose in the book?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And as I think about the last few years, and and another question I want to ask you in a few in a few minutes is just the whole process of going through COVID.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as someone who's in the healthcare space, which I know is, you know, I I feel like most of the people that I know who who are in who are in healthcare have some sort of PTSD after going through COVID, you know, or something.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: But do you think one of the reasons why it's resonated is because a lot of people right now seem to be searching for purpose for guidance, for a reminder that their life matters and they have something to offer, and that's why they can show up with purpose.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like that is one of the resonant themes in this book that has really connected with people.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is, but I I wouldn't say that that is the biggest reason why it has connected with people.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I will agree with you.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Purpose is absolutely important.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: The why.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what drives me around what I do every day.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: My career has been built based on having a purpose and understanding my why.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that is a thread throughout the book.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say the thing that makes the book, in my opinion, based on the feedback that I've received, the thing that makes the book so attractive to people is its authenticity.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that was to a certain degree one of the biggest challenges for me.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I as a leader, I think that is the single most important attribute that a leader can display is authenticity.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: That means your your words and your actions reconcile, you know, and so with the book, it was very important for me to be authentic.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in order to be authentic in the book, and this is where I had the biggest challenge, was I had to be vulnerable, you know, because without the vulnerability, there is no authenticity.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I thought, okay, if I'm gonna write this book, then it better be me, which means it's got to be authentic, which means I need to be vulnerable in order for that to show.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that was uh a fairly significant hurdle for me to get over is that vulnerability.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm glad that I did because the people that have read the book, that have reached out to me, that have written reviews, that's the thing that jumps out the most to them is that how authentic the book was.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And reading the book made them feel like they were sitting across the table having a conversation with you.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I felt, okay, maybe I actually hit the mark that I was hoping to hit.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the kind of books I always enjoy reading the most, is when it's not attempting to be too academic or writerly or too flowery.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's just when people use plain, simple language to tell a story, and and you get a sense that this is almost like a transcript of if they were if you were sitting at a coffee shop with somebody and they're just talking to you.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and I just I love how you express your voice in that way.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just straightforward.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's not some sort of big, you know, as we would say in Missouri, some big highfalutin kind of I don't know if other parts of the country use that term.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I yeah, I I I've heard that you, but you know what, Kent, when when I set out to do this, I wanted to replicate to a certain degree.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I thought about all the books that I've read, you know, in in my years of reading.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought about the one book that truly jumped out at me for a number of reasons.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was easy to read.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I I it I could read it in a very short period of time.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was a book that once I read it, I thought, oh man, I want my friends to read it, I want my other colleagues to read it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a book that I couldn't wait to recommend to somebody, and it was one of those books that made me have multiple aha moments.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what that book was?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who moved my cheese?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Really, I wouldn't have guessed you were gonna say that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, but everybody that I know that had read that book sort of said, you know what?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I read it in one sitting, or I read it in in two days, and you know what, I gave it to somebody, and I I recommended somebody else to read it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of those books as I'm reading it, I'm thinking, wow, that it just makes sense.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I wanted my book to sort of demonstrate that it would be easy to read, it would be something you'd want to share with an upcoming leader or a college graduate or a leader with quite a bit of tenure, and I wanted it to be somewhat you know, inspirational, but also something that you walked away with thinking, you know what?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I could use some of the knowledge that I just got from that book.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it's short, it's a short little book that that is a fun, it's a fun story, and so they've almost baked things into that book.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh who wrote that?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is it was it Spencer Johnson and who is the other guy who wrote that?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't tell you the name of the author, but I could tell you the name of the book, and I can tell you that everybody that I've told that story to was like, yeah, I read that book.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I felt the same way about it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it when authors bake things into books that make them readable, they're simple, they're easy, and they're also recommendable.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you finish a book, you're going to be more likely to refer it to others.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's what you've done with your book, too, is the chapters are short.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very fun, simple, and easy read, which I I appreciate as a reader.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't maybe I'm just lazy, but I don't want to work that hard when I'm reading.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, and neither do I.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Neither do I.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I had to be willing to also the stories that were being told weren't being told from Mount Rushmore.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't being told from me standing on this high platform and look how great and wonderful I am and how much I have, you know, success, how much success I have have had in my career.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: It talked about my failures.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: It talked about those things that that made me uncomfortable.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to share the things that I was insecure about that I think contributed to my success, that also contributed to me telling a very real and authentic story.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So the listeners for this show are writers building their business.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're at all different stages of their journey.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the challenges that I think anyone in business has, and any human in general who is trying to be self-aware, but particularly business owners, leaders, CEOs, those types of folks, one of the challenges that we have is, and you referred to it earlier, the the line between inauthentic and authentic.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: How do you think about it in your role?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have a very, very high profile role.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: You have at this point, how many people do you have working in virtue with something like 16,000?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we we do, and and you're right.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sort of on stage all the time.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Ken, I think the thing that most of us can see in an instant, and we may not be always be able to describe it and to define it, but you know authenticity.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: You you you just know, and when people can tell that you're being authentic, with that comes a high degree of trust.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and when you trust, you're more open to listening, to learning, to opening yourself up to what that person has to say.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I have to out of the gate establish myself as someone who is authentic and trustworthy and relatable, approachable, and and you have to be able to do that whether it's in person or in writing.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And my hope was in writing this, the style, the stories would demonstrate that you know, here's a guy who's who's pretty approachable.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a guy that you'd be okay sitting down having coffee with, or in an audience listening to.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but I want to take a moment to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 21:53
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• 22:02
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• 22:07
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• 22:22
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• 22:27
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• 22:30
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• 22:35
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• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's dryvellum.com slash kit.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's get back to the conversation.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: How do you decide when you're thinking about authenticity as a leader?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: How do you decide what things to share and what things not to share?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do you have sort of certain parameters in place?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, you have a very high profile position.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: How do you know what's appropriate and what's not appropriate in terms of your own insecurities, doubts, fears, failures, those kinds of things?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a lot to unpack in that question.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with addressing and dealing with your own insecurities and your own doubts, because I I don't know a very successful leader in the space that I work in, and I've talked to leaders in other industries that at some point in time have not suffered from fear of failure.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of us succeed because of fear of failure.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Some of us let it drive us to work harder, to be more prepared, to make sure you show up.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the title of my book is called Suited for Leadership.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that that's about how you show up in your role, how you are prepared.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's more than just what your appearance look like, which I think is important as well.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think your appearance should demonstrate your respect for the job that you have, your respect for the people that you lead, and you want to present in a way in which they can see you as that that person, that figure that is in control.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But being suited for leadership also says you are prepared, that you have have have studied, you've done the research, that you have the experience and the expertise and the just the ability to take people places they may not be prepared to go on their own.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so you think about your own insecurities.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, how do you address your own insecurities?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you you do the things that you need to do, you prepare yourself.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: If that means you need to retool yourself, then you retool yourself.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was functioning in a in a business world that was populated by people with finance degrees and accounting degrees and law degrees, which I had none of.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had a biology degree.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: But and I would often find myself in a room feeling somewhat of a subordinate because of my lack of academic preparation in those disciplines.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So rather than continuing to feel sorry about myself, I decided, you know what?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I need to do something about it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I decided to go back.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got my securities license.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why my securities license?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because in order to do that, I had to prepare myself in all of those disciplines.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had to have, you know, an accounting knowledge, I had to have finance knowledge, I had to have law knowledge.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: All of those things contributed to me being able to sit and pass the licensure for a securities license.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I did that, believe it or not, under cover of darkness.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell the people I was working with that I was doing it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But that was just an example of me getting myself suited while addressing some of my own insecurities, some of my own lack of skills.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I encourage people that you know you have to be willing to identify and face those those fears, those insecurities, those things that that maybe impact you or influence your ability to succeed.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I mentioned um lastly that imposter syndrome.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: We many of us have it, you know.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, you have to embrace the fact that you belong.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you belong.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you belong because of all the other things that I just mentioned.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: You prepared yourself, you demonstrated you had the cerebral capacity to do the job, you know, you're in the room, take advantage of it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because many of us for so long we fight to get a seat at the table that once we get there, we forget about having a voice.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one thing to get in the room, then it's another thing to get a seat at the table, then it's another thing to have your voice elevated and amplified.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you do that once you believe and embrace the fact that you know what?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here because I belong to be here, just like everybody else.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm okay speaking up and speaking out.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like I want to, I was gonna say rewind the tape.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody, you know, this isn't on tape anymore.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody uses tape anymore.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like I want to rewind the last three or four minutes and replay that about 10 times because you I feel like you've just given a master class on how to overcome or how to deal with imposter syndrome and just so much gold there.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because the best way to deal with imposter syndrome, Kent, honestly, is is performance.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, be productive, do the things that you were sought out to do, and do it in a way that you can be proud of the the outcome, you know, embrace your shortcomings, work on them, you know, get suited, and then go out and let your in products speak for itself.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost where the best way to address imposter syndrome is to stop being an imposter and to suit up and go take care of those areas where you feel deficient.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: You you may not always succeed.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay too.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't look at that as a failure.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is another learning opportunity.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is something else that's gonna help you appreciate the success when you do get there.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I it success is more of a journey than a destination, and so it drives my wife crazy when she hears me talk about I feel like there is so much more one I should have done by this point in my career.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel there is so much yet for me to do in my career, and that's how I think.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I I don't have a destination by which I am seeking to arrive at.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I am on this journey to make a difference, to be impactful, and to leave a legacy, which I I don't know what it is and what it's going to be, but I will continue to work every day, and that really is the central theme in my book came from a prayer that my mother would pray frequently when I was growing up, and it wasn't until later in life that I realized it wasn't so much just a prayer as it was an inspiration because at night she would pray, and she was a real spiritual woman, and she would pray at night and she would pray out loud so I could hear her, and she would always end that prayer by saying, Lord, let him be better than today.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always question back then, you know, I'm not that bad of a kid.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Why is she spending all of her precious time praying about me when I'm doing, you know, some okay things?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I soon learned that that was her way of just trying to inspire me to continue to grow, to climb, to try and make a difference.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so here I am many, many, many years later.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I still wake up every single morning and I think about how I can be better, how can I make a difference in the lives of others?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it is so weird for me that when I think that was something that she embedded in me at an early age, and it drives everything that I do.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so in my book, Being Suited for Leadership, the central theme is how can you as a leader, no matter at what stage you're in, work every single day to be better, either at your craft or at your impact or the the folks that you around, you are around.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that is sort of my core.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it supports my why is just trying to make a difference.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know we're running short on time, and uh you're a super busy guy, and you you always have a day full of meetings, as anybody in your role would have.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to wrap up with this uh this final question.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Something that I mentioned earlier is the COVID crisis, obviously.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: And as I mentioned earlier, I every time I I talk to anybody who's been in healthcare for a while, I know that was a really rough time for a whole bunch of reasons.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious, what are some of the lessons that you took away as a leader from going through that?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know you had to figure out processes and procedures very, very quickly on a very short timescale when the pandemic started a few years ago.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: What are what were some of those lessons, and maybe how did those apply to anybody in leadership?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Who's going through a crisis?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so so what were some of the the the lessons?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because, first of all, we were thrust into a situation that we had to deal with without a proven playbook.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, none of us had gone through a pandemic before, and here we were being forced to make decisions that would impact lives, that would literally impact lives of the people that trusted us with their care, as well as the lives of those that were providing the care.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: We were asking them to go into situations that were quite frankly unknown.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so the thing that I perhaps learned that I think anybody can take away is first and foremost, surround yourself with impactful people.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, surround yourself with people that you trust, people that support you, people that will challenge you, people that will help you be the best version of yourself.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because quite often leaders can get to the point that the voice that they hear most often in their head is their own.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a bad place to be.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have to surround yourself with people that are going to help make you better.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And in COVID, I was really fortunate and blessed to have a group of just phenomenal leaders that I could count on to help me think through and work through that the problem that we were faced with.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mentioned earlier about one of the attributes that I think is so important for a leader is authenticity.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: One of the other attributes that I look for when I'm interviewing or when I'm talking to someone and thinking about them being in a leadership role is critical thinking.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would much be around a critical thinker than I would a content expert.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want someone that can help me think through things and to help process and come up with the best possible solution.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was fortunate to have just some incredible leaders that were around and individuals that were were critical thinkers and helped us to figure out the path forward.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know what?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: We had to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely have the answer to everything, trying to make sure that the data is absolutely absolutely aligned and make sure that every T is crossed and every I is dot dotted.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you have to be willing to make a decision with imperfect information and guess what?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Move forward.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you you have to rely on your experience, your wisdom, your knowledge, your the people you have surrounded yourself with, and make a decision and make the most of it.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I love that.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and then during COVID, that's exactly what we had to do.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it was uh it was the most difficult time of my career, but it was also the time where I learned to truly lean in to what got me to where I am today.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that was critical thinking, surrounding myself with uh impactful people, relying on people for their expertise, being willing to make a decision with imperfect information, being willing to stand behind the decisions that you make, uh be they good or bad, but always, always err on the side of doing what's right as opposed to doing what's best.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Two different things.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Very different things.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Dennis, thank you for taking the time to uh to do this interview.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, there's a a lot to unpack here, and people can get a lot more of this.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, this is just a small taste of all the wisdom that you have uh that you've shared in your book, Suited for Leadership.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for putting this book out into the world.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's truly a gift to not just writers, but to leaders everywhere.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so thankful that our paths have crossed, and I appreciate you making time to be on the show today.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: This has been a great conversation, and I'm so grateful that um have been able to take the time to chat with me.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Ken, thank you so much for for having me on.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's always a pleasure to talk to you, but you have also been impactful to me and helped me to amplify my voice and get my message out in a manner that I never ever dreamed would actually happen.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, writing a book was one of those bucketless items, but never thought I would actually do it.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so with your help, it has really, really been a difference um maker for me and my life and my career.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing this space with me and look forward to talking to you anytime.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I so appreciate that.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, working with you, and and I've mentioned this before, it's one of those things where at some point somebody's gonna tell me to get a real job because when I get to work with people like you, it doesn't feel like work at all.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels like I get to kind of play and talk with cool people all day.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, my friend, thanks for joining us for today's episode of The Profitable Rider.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that you really enjoyed that conversation with Dennis Pullen.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't he great?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love his attitude, his perspective, and all the really valuable lessons that he shared with us on this episode.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I also hope that you will check out his brand new book, Tudored for Leadership.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: We designed it as a very quick read.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's really fun with tons of stories and with lots of lessons that apply to leaders of every kind, including any type of writer that wants to build their business.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure and check that out.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also excited about our next episode coming up this Wednesday, which features a conversation with my good friend and fellow ghost writer, Alex Sullivan.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be doing an in-depth conversation about what do you do when client work goes wrong?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone who's done client work of any kind can relate to that question probably very, very much.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: We've all had times when client work just goes off the rails, and what do you do in those moments?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's exactly what Alice and I are gonna be talking about on that that episode.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure and join us.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a really fun and informative conversation.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Before we go, I want to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you may have written a great book, but it's not ready for publication until it's been in the hands of a great editor.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why my friend Karen Huntinger, also known as The Word Wizard, is the perfect partner to help you craft the highest quality book possible.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a great editor doesn't just correct grammar and spelling, they also correct wordiness, shift and tone and voice, overuse of particular words, and they also enhance transitions, clarity, and accuracy.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked with Karen many times, and she is your secret weapon for crafting an amazing book.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: Visit Karenhuntinger.com for a free sample edit.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's Karenhuntinger.com for a free sample edit.