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Podcast: Behind the Scenes: Doers>Hearers; (James 1-19-27) · North Raleigh United Methodist Church Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Good day, and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church behind the scenes podcast, where we're sitting down weekly and talk about this week's scripture and sermon.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Kevin Van Hall.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I serve as the moderator for the program.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me today is one of the senior pastors here at North Raleigh, Kevin Johnson.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Kevin.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hey.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Last week Laura was here and she was talking about Be Love, and it finished up the I guess the statement series or the missions direction of North Raleigh of be Long, Become, and Be Love.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: You got it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those three words.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Keep it simple.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I can remember it.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Everything should be that simple, right?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're going to talk about James.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're starting a whole new series.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think James kind of leaves it kind of cut and dry a little bit as well.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about the New Testament uh letter James.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll give a little background about that in a minute.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's going to start a new series about practical faith.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, in some ways, you know, James is one of the most practical books in the Bible.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I remember loving James as a middle school student because I think I could read it and understand it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so James is pretty straightforward.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: When we read it, um, it doesn't take it doesn't take a divinity degree uh to read what we're gonna read today and understand what it's saying.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: The hard part is putting it into practice.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the hard part is how we embody it in our lives.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, so I think it's a nice continuation off of our purpose series to think through this book.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're we're gonna make it through a lot of James.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, not every single word uh will we preach, but really we'll we'll make it through the vast majority of it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's only a five-chapter book.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great if you're listening to this and you want to go ahead and read it sometime ahead of Sunday, or over the course of the next few weeks be reading along, it's a great thing to do.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'd highly recommend that.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I j I think James is very uh straightforward.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's not a whole lot of w ways you can twist the interpretation on it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to be a four-week series, correct?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And did you come up with this, Laura, or is this litorical uh liturgy?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we developed this one.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: It is not the lectionary right now.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll be back in lectionary um for All Saints Day, the first of November, and then for Generosity series called All You Can.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And those are gospel texts that are the lectionary texts.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this is yeah, this was really just a result of saying, hey, let's talk about James.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be a great book to do right now.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where it came from.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And really just saying we really want to focus on something that's kind of very practical, very um kind of boots on the ground how we follow Jesus, and and and and then and I think this provides a great way to do it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So well, great.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, James, written 2,000 years ago, just like the gospel, is very uh relevant today.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: You could look at it today and take the lessons from it today and apply it as well.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it is um great to reread the book of James if you haven't uh read it and it hits home again, all over again.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we keep talking about the book of James.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of James in the Bible, James in the New Testament.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think most people will attribute this just to general letters, it's in the general letters part of the New Testament, as from Jesus' brother.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um is that correct?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's who it's attributed to.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: We know that so you know, one of the James and John, the sons of Zebedee, the ones that were part of Jesus' inner circle, right?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's often Peter, James, and John that get talked about.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: That James was an early martyr.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jesus' brother James comes to be one of the leaders of the church at Jerusalem.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when we read in Acts, um, especially Acts 10 to 15, we get a lot about the church at Jerusalem, this kind of Jewish-Christian movement.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So James rises up as one of the key leaders in that movement.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: In stuff I've been reading, a lot of it this book is attributed to that James, and um it probably comes out of uh of a Greek-speaking Jewish-Christian community, uh, Greek speaking because of just how good and detailed the Greek is of James.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's some stuff I was reading.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh basically someone related to Jesus probably wouldn't have been that good at Greek.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and that they had a really kind of a mastery, and also some of the ways they frame the ways they frame things are really Hellenistic in the way they do.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, uh the other thing that's interesting about James, right, is that James generally doesn't talk a lot about Jesus.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So in Paul's letters we essentially get like, hey, how is how are we supposed to think about Jesus now that Jesus is gone from us, now that he's resurrected and ascended?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do we do with that?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: James is concerned a lot about God, and he talks about God, but it's almost like the teachings of Jesus are assumed, and this is about living out the teaching part of Jesus, if that makes sense.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little it's it's so that's an interesting way to think about it because James does not you're not gonna get a ton about the person and work of Jesus Christ.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Well, Paul on his mission uh narrative trips had to introduce Jesus.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so like you I guess James likes going on the assumption everyone was already familiar with what had happened.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus Yeah, I think that it it's like Jane James is a picture of this Jewish Christianity that existed in and around Jerusalem.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, there's a baseline of knowledge there that I think that that gives way eventually to the Roman expansion with with Paul that goes deep out into the world.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is really maybe a little bit of a portrait for us of this Jewish Christianity that existed at the beginning before before Paul.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, a Jewish Christianity that really at some point along the line, as as a a Roman type of Christianity spread, kind of almost eventually dies out in the first hundred or two hundred years.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, persecution is uh is great.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You talking, you mentioned uh James, one of the sons of uh Zebedee, being martyred early, um, right after Stephen, I think around 40 something A.D.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this James also, the leader of the church, is also martyred.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I get I believe it's thrown from the temple or stones stoned to death uh around 60 A.D.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the dysphoria of the Jewish uh nation, and this is where Paul can go out and preach into uh the different synagogues because so much of the persecution is still happening in uh Israel at the time to be a a follower of Jesus.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was much easier for Paul to spread the word outside to do it.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for sure.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at how much how much Jesus has persecuted himself, right?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so then, of course, his followers are going to continue to be because they're they're they're causing a ruckus, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're they're they're creating holy trouble where they are because they're they're bucking against the trends of you know those groups that we see all the time, the Pharisees and everything like that in the gospels.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they would not renounce uh Jesus and ultimately paid the price for but that's uh so we're gonna be in the starting off in the book of James on uh chapter one today.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So how about a word of prayer before we read?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh Lord, I pray that by the power of your Holy Spirit you would open your word to us, help us to see and hear what you would have for us today, and that you might help us to to listen well for you.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um to listen well, and that we might be slow to speak and slow to become angry.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: That we learn from these words.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: In Christ's name we pray.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So James chapter one, verses uh nineteen through twenty-seven.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Know this, my dear brothers and sisters, everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to grow angry.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is because an angry person doesn't produce God's righteousness.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, with humility set aside all moral filth and the growth of wickedness, and welcome the word planted deep inside you, the very word that is able to save you.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: You must be doers of the word, and not only hearers who mislead themselves.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Those who hear but don't do the word are like those who look at their faces in a mirror.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: They look at themselves, walk away, and immediately forget what they were like.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there are those who study the perfect law, the law of freedom, and continue to do it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: They don't listen and then forget, but they put it into practice in their lives.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: They will be blessed in whatever they do.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: If those who claim devotion to God can't control what they say, they mislead themselves.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Their devotion is worthless.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: True devotion, the kind that is pure and faultless before God the Father is this to care for orphans and widows in their difficulties, and to keep the world from contaminating us.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So James is calling us to action.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's calling you out uh to uh rein in your tongue and uh open up your ears, and to I guess not only hear what Jesus had to say, but step forward and do what Jesus had to say.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start at the beginning when he's very famous words from James along with uh faith without deeds is the fairy statement uh quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean we should probably just stop there.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: We should probably just s preach that verse or say that verse and and leave and see what it does for us.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like Yeah, exactly.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that all we're gonna does human nature prevent us from doing that?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean here's where you want the f the fruit of the Holy Spirit's where one of those uh is patience, kindness, goodness, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: All of us it's that slow down and and listen and because anger isn't going to, if you go on, different versions of the Bible produce good fruit.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Righteousness, nothing good is gonna come at it from an angry uh answer or yelling or screaming.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or or an angry email that gets typed feverishly as a response to something, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Or how many times I've started.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've started that that email and then said that's not that's not what I need to send, and that's not how I need to respond in that situation, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I do think that um this is calling on us to not just follow our gut reaction to something, and it's calling us to something better.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I think about um to a certain degree, like the amplification of violence in our world where violence just begets more violence, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um the idea that when we are not quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to grow angry, you know, we see right now the amplification of of war, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: We think about Ukraine and Russia been going on for over four years.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: We think about um we think about the Middle East and um and Iran and everything there, and and it it's like we there's a constant that when one party acts and then the other one has to retaliate in a greater measure, and we just keep going back and forth.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean and that that's the logic of the world is really one-outsmanship competitiveness.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it gets played out on a grand scale in global conflict like that, but it also gets played out in really, really small local ways.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um sibling rivalries, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh whatever, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's very local ways that that gets played out, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh problems with a coworker, right?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: All of these things are ways that that were not quick to listen and slow to speak.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's good.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Slow to become angry.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Put yourself in that person's shoes and try to understand their point of view before you become angry and just jump down your throat and try to push your point of view.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's along with I guess Paul's teachings of loving one another and and we're all made in the image of God.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're um not loving or if you're angry or hate your brother, then you're not um doing what Jesus asked or God asked us to do.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what's interesting, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because it says verse 20, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: An angry person doesn't produce God's righteousness.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: That sure sounds like fruit language, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like growth and fruit.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I think about both Galatians 5 and when Paul talks about the fruit, I think about uh 1 Corinthians and around chapter 2, when he says, you know, I plants that Apollos watered, God gives the growth.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when he's talking about the word growing in in the midst of the Corinthians.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then, right, we get then this language of in verse 21, welcome the word planted deep inside you, the very word that is able to save you, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there's something within this about the message of Jesus, and that that word is able to save us is probably one of the only references to salvation in James very much.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's not a ton about that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that we welcome that by listening well, by not speaking, but by allowing God's grace to grow in us, right?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that these are all the ways that that we participate in what God has for us.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think James is talking to the believers and telling them to be, or is he talking about the typical Pharisees or other Hebrews, Israelites that refused to listen to them about preaching the word of Jesus and and the message that he had, trying to say, quit uh with your uh moral filth and your and humbly accept the word that we're trying to tell you.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to spread that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think because he begins most of these things with my brothers and sisters, or you know, it's probably originally my brothers in Greek, but you know, the beginning of the section, know this, my dear brothers and sisters.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beginning of chapter two, my brothers and sisters, two fourteen, my brothers and sisters, back to one two, uh, my brothers and sisters.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right, like he's I think he's talking to the Christian community mostly.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: That that that seems to be the audience.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I to a certain degree it's sort of like how our role as pastors is to shape this community that we are called to serve.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't I can't shape a community who is outside of my jurisdiction or control.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna talk to this community, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: If someone else outside of it happens to hear it, okay.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if that makes sense.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So so so so when when the people are gathered on a weekly basis, we're thinking about speaking God's word to them in their particular situation at this time, not about others who are not present in that community.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think I think predominantly it is to them.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the beginning listening and and and doing there is not just listening to us, or like he says, he's preaching, shepherding his uh community.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's you mentioned earlier now, he is the leader of the church there in Jerusalem.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's getting them to act in the way that Jesus wanted us to, not just to hear the word.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he continues on in 22, do not merely just listen to the word and then deceive yourself and say, Well, what does it say?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Really, he's asking them to understand the word.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think this is the challenge, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: When we read Jesus, I was just, you know, Pastor Laura led the Mark study this morning and a lot about Jesus and the Jesus teaching him parables.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way you understand the parable in a way that you can live it out is by opening yourself up to what it says, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So some of the listening involves understanding, but when we understand the gospel of Jesus, it's not just the change in our heads, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: What the the language that the Common English gives to the word repent, and that's the version I'm reading from, is change your hearts and lives, right?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So so the very idea of repentance means that a life change.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: It means that we're doing something different.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what he's saying.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's clearly a problem in whatever community he's talking to, and we don't know much about that community.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know, we don't have a lot of direct address in James.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost a stretch to call it a letter because it doesn't really fall in that type of genre like some of them do.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: But we do get the sense that that there's some something's going on in this community, or there's something that this author wants to address that says people are you're hearing it and you're not doing it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm preaching it to you, but you ain't putting it into practice, right?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So he gives that example of someone who looks at a mirror, walks away and says, I don't know what I just saw, or forgets what they look like, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, and compares that to someone who looks and studies the law, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where the Jewish-Christian type of language comes in.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the law, the law here for James does not have the same implications of the law in Paul, when Paul talks uh and uses that same word.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the the law there is a burden for Paul that we J Jesus.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: In a Jewish Christian way, that's gonna be a a a gift, right?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then James calls it uh gives us perfect freedom.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where Paul's is it's it ties you down.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he says they don't listen and forget, but they put it into practice in their lives and they will be blessed in whatever they do.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is part of the key for James, and the part of the key to unlocking this text this week is is putting it into practice in your life, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is the practical faith piece.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean for you to put to put it into practice?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So modern day, I come to church on Sunday, I hug all my friends and and neighbors and greet them.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I listen to a great sermon.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I go out renewed, and then Monday morning I'm right back to um talking bad filth behind people's back, gossip, and uh not and las this Sunday never happened and didn't hear and understand.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's the quote, um gosh, who who said it?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was from um oh gosh, the guy who really influenced Rich Mullins.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um the single greatest cause of atheism today is Christians who acknowledge God with their lips uh but then deny him with their lives.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think that's the that's that's a lot of the um well it's the hypocrisy, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's that that's and that and this is where this is hits us today, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we and we it's it's easy for us to spin that and put it on to whatever leader de jour we want to, uh, but we can also just put it on ourselves and say, well, shoot, this is really hard, you know.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I mean when I say be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't look in the mirror with that one, I mean, you know.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's it it's you're you're quick with your tongue to uh correct other people, but then how are you acting?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to uh the speck in your eye and remove the plank from your own.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this again is is just we're we're hearing the same lessons over and over again, two thousand years, we still can preach these exact same lessons.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which is the gift of the word, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when he goes on in verse 26, right, he he's gonna wrap it back to verse 19, which is about being quick to listen.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: He says, if those who claim devotion to God don't control what they say, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it becomes again about what you're saying, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: They mislead themselves, their devotion is worthless.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so so he's saying it's it's it's the old, oh, be careful, little mouth, what you say.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for the father up above is looking down alone, oh be careful.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Little mouth, what you say, it's that old children's song.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's the truth, right?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and and he's gonna go on and talk about the taming of the tongue later and stuff like that, right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it becomes about, hey, like you can't like words have power.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one thing that um with with the barrage of how many words that we encounter daily, not just in written form, but in all the forms that we that we get words at us, um we forget that as as uh some in education world and others have to have talk that words create worlds.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we I've said things before that have hurt people I love.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I want them back right after I say them.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: But they've been said.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, you know, the professional athletes in today's world that we see um have a platform of so many people look up to those that if they think are successful, famous, talented.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh some of these guys are very young right out right I call it 20, 21 years old, get angry, say something.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't understand the influence that they have that the young people that are looking up to them.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: You have and they've learned that responsibility of hold your tongue, count to ten.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And before you speak, before you act, and then in the way you do act, how are you acting?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are you practicing what you preach or are you a hypocrite?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just people in the sports industry, uh, music legends, uh, famous people, and our leaders.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So leaders are calling and telling us to do one thing and are they doing the same or are they doing something different?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh I think it's always I mean, this is kind of it's it's it's always been, and now we just have the amplification of this stuff.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of the I mean part of the problem you bring up there is also the and why we why we count on people who are really good at playing games for a living to be the ones who give voice to moral issues of authority is pretty stupid.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so like I mean, let's be honest.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that's part of the issue too.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's a little bit aside.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but but saying so he wraps it around, right, with this idea of what we say matters because that's the practice that that you know, Paul well and Jesus talks about right, like what whatever whatever comes out of your mouth is really what's in your heart, right?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus talks about that in the Sermon on the Mount.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and essentially this is saying the same thing.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then verse 27, right?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: True devotion, the kind that is pure and faultless before God the Father is this to care for or orphans and widows in their difficulties, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's the the idea is this, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And something I read in a commentary this week is is no Israelite, no Israelite could claim to be righteous without caring for the poor.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So so and and and I think it is specifically talking about orphans and widows, but also using orphans and widows to really describe anyone who does not have power in their culture or society.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So for for James, and and really when we look at the ministry of Jesus, we see this borne out all the time.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like those in the lowest rungs of society are the people who Jesus spends time with, who he cares for, uh who he looks out for.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think then that goes into the next part.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So true devotion to care for orphans and widows, and to keep the world from contaminating us.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: The simple read on keeping the world from contaminating us seems to be abstaining from bad stuff that is of the world.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's what it means here.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I think we should do that.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like but I think specifically it's saying keep the world from contaminating us, keeping the the power that we usually seek after that causes us to one-up each other, that causes us to grow angry, that causes us to displace people and put them aside to keep that from contaminating us.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, to keep the way of the world that puts people down so that I might be lifted up.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that that's that's the way of the world that James is concerned about here that is contaminating.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is the way that puts down the poor, that puts down the orphans, that puts down the widows because it enacts ways of living that don't care about them.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so for him, it is crucial.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So how we treat how we treat the uh the least among us uh in fact shows our devotion.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's Jesus in Matthew 25 when he talks about the sheep and the goats, and he says, you know, when did we when did we love you?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And or when when did we feed you and when did we and he says, Well, when you did it for one of the least of these, you did it to me.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is that enacted.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it also reminds me of the uh controversy that was going on.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you go back to the book of Acts, early uh church was not only led by James, it was also led by Peter.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a discrepancy where a lot of people that were believers in Jesus were coming, that just says in Pentecost, were not all just Israelites or Hebrews.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were from different nations, different ethnicities, different cultures, and they were coming, and they were communal living, giving of their funds and money, and some of the money was not reaching the orphans or the widows from those that were not Israelites.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they came to Peter and said, This is what's going on.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're showing favoritism here.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're literally withholding from these widows, but you're giving it to your widows.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: James being in early church, um pointing it out.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: An orphan's an orphans, a widow, a widow.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're you're either doing the actions that you that Jesus taught us to do or you're or you're not.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: There is no I can do it to one and not the other.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he's gonna get to favoritism in it later.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so that will that will touch where James goes later as well.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that was where the podcast will go next week with I guess with Laura.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is uh if we continue the series with God, has no favorites.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: If we continue.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: So he kind of leads us down that path.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: But again, he's calling us out to take care of the orphans and the widows.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: How come I don't hear a lot of people quoting James out there today world, uh, Kevin?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean because it's hard, you know.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I think because it's hard to embody, I think it's because we it calls Christians to act like Christians, not just to say I believe, but to actually do something.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And no one, I never I never hear James being quoted out there in in public like I hear uh Leviticus or some of the other things.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think and I think that's um yeah, I I it's it's it's it's a challenging word, um, but it's also a it's it's a purifying word in that.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, Gavin.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's straightforward, but we just don't want to do it.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's challenging to do.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a challenging word to enact, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's love God, love your neighbor, is it not?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is also a hard one.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So hard one to enact, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are hard to love.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with that 100%.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's and Jesus is concerned about those some, right?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that's that's the hard part.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean I think I think James gives us a lot, a lot to chew on.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well-being simple to understand.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: It also It's nice because since we can understand what it's saying, it presses us into that deeper level of, okay, so what does that what does that mean for us?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do we how do we enact the caring for the orphans and the widows?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: How do I how can I how do I listen better and make sure I shut my mouth?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so some people listen to this, they have no problem shutting their mouths.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're so quiet all the time.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: We need to hear what you have to say, people.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a quiet person in one of your small group type of settings, please speak up.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some of us, like myself, um, who just need to shut our mouths sometimes so that we can listen, right?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, so so in some ways it's about it's about conflict, in other ways, it's just about how we live in the world and make sure we hear from one another.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and I mean, essentially of empathy, like you were describing early, which is just trying to hear someone else's perspective and place ourselves in their shoes and understand where they're coming from.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's that make the world a lot better place.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Actions.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Actions speak.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um louder than words.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're about the old parable of the two workers that um Jesus asked um who which one did the will of the father, the one that said he was going to go to work in the field and didn't, or the one that said he wouldn't go work in the field and didn't.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: He did.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the one who did it, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, we can uh actions speak louder than words sometimes.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, words can hurt.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to hold our tongues in check and just um close our mouths and do God's work.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, easier said than done.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's very true.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're out of time for this week.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh James is uh straightforward, but he opens up a lot of canned worms, does he not?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I look forward to the sermon this week.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: What direction we're gonna go, if we're gonna get uh chastised for not uh going out and doing the uh the work of the Lord, or because our tongues are uh if I chastise you too hard, then I need to look in the mirror.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: We all need to look in the mirror, according to James.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: An imperfect person.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And not and no one and understand that no one else is uh perfect either.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for listening out there.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've enjoyed this podcast and uh and you can come to join the service this Sunday while Kevin uh preaches his sermon.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: If not, it is available online or it is also um that is in streaming or this sermon will be published online as well, just like the podcast.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Please join us next week when Laura will be here and we'll be talking about God has no favorites as we continue in the book of James.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So until then, may the love of Christ be with you always.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So goodbye, everyone.