Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Stop the ghosting in your Wedding Business with Alan Berg

Transcript

Stop the ghosting in your Wedding Business with Alan Berg · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

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Alan: Let it go for another week or so.
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And then I like to send something funny and a good subject line.
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Like, um, did you run off and elope?
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And inside it said, hi, Becca, you reached out about having us whatever,
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you know, whatever it is that you do.
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We haven't heard back.
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We can only imagine that you decided to skip the wedding, go right to the
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honeymoon and you're warming your toes on a Sandy beach, drinking a
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cold drink with a small umbrella.
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If that's not the case, would you still like to find out about whatever?
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And that got a client that was very, very interested, but was trying to make
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it work with their budget to reach back out and say, yes, we're still interested.
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You know, can we work something out?
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Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert,
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speaker and blogger, and you are listening to The Wedding Pros
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Who Are Ready To Grow Podcast.
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I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
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examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
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If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
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and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you
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love, then you're in the right place.
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Let's get going with today's episode.
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Today I'm chatting with a fabulous Alan Berg To say he has wedding
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industry experience would be an understatement across his career.
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He is published two wedding magazines, been Vice President of Sales for
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the Knot, authored seven books and spoken at industry events worldwide.
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He is a true industry legend and.
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Absolutely absurd.
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Really that it's taken me 18 months to get around to having him on the podcast.
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You may have previously heard him at my wedding pro summit or in
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the members lounge, but today he's here on the podcast, Alan, welcome.
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It's so good to have you
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Alan: here.
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It's so good to finally be here.
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I feel like we've talked about this forever and.
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And now it's here.
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Becca: Yes.
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And we finally got around to sorting it out.
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And I know that it's going to be a great conversation.
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So it will have been worth the wait.
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Now, Alan, as I read that out, as I read out that introduction, um, I'm
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sure you must think back over all of those things that I just talked about.
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And one of the things I always get my wedding pros to do themselves is to
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look back at their accomplishments, not always look forward.
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So as you hear that list of things, as you hear me introduce you, what
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are the things over that long career that you feel really proud of?
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Alan: I feel really proud of the books because for people that have thought
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about writing a book, and I know a lot of people that tell me that I think about
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writing a book when I wrote my first book, it was an accomplishment, but I kind of
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didn't feel like an author because I feel like almost everybody has a book in them.
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And certainly if you speak for a living or speak as part of what you do, whatever
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your topic is could become a book.
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And if you write about on blogs and things, you could write a
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book, I think seven books in.
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I feel.
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I'm pretty confident I can tell people I'm an author.
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I think I can.
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Absolutely.
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I think I can say that.
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But really at this point in my career what I'm most proud of is when people come to
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me and tell me how What I have done, uh, not what I've done, what they've done
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based upon what they've heard from me, read from me, seen from me, whatever.
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And that's the thing that makes me most proud.
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It's kind of like watching your kids play sports.
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You know, you can, you're like, Oh, they scored a goal and you
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feel their pleasure, right?
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You feel the pleasure through them.
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That's for me.
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It's so many years.
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That's why I keep doing it.
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If people weren't getting value from it, and weren't taking action,
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I don't belong on the stage.
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Yeah, that's
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Becca: so true.
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There's so much joy to be found in other people's success
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from what you've taught them.
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And the book thing is incredible because I'm one of those people that says,
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yeah, I must write a book one day.
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But the thought of writing one book, it's just insane.
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But to think that you've written seven books, it's just incredible.
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I don't know where you, where you get the time from, especially when
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you're traveling all over the country.
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Alan: Uh, well, I actually write a lot on planes and I tell people this all
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the time because people come to me just like I did when I wrote my first book.
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I went to other authors and said, tell me what I don't know, right?
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And what I do with people now, as I say, don't write books,
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write words, words, get edited.
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The editing words become books.
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And if you get yourself out of, I'm writing a book, then.
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You'll just start to write and some of the stuff's going to be good.
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Some of the stuff's not going to be good.
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My latest book, uh, Becca is really interesting because I say it's the
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book that my audience helped me write.
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And here's how, uh, you're going to be at Wedding MBA this year in, in Las Vegas.
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And I've spoken there every year and I speak at a lot of other conferences
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and people would come up to me after I speak and say, Hey, that was great.
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What you just said about this, which of your books is that in?
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And if it was in one of my books, I'd say, here it is.
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And if it wasn't, I would say it's in the next one.
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And I literally just started writing down the things that people were asking
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me and the 35 chapters in my newest book, which has stopped selling and
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help them buy weddings and events.
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We're things that people asked me, they, they said, you know, I don't like to sell.
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I love taking pictures where I love playing music or I love baking
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cakes, but I don't like to sell.
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So there's a chapter about it, but what if you don't like to sell, um, responding
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to good reviews, responding to bad reviews, how to get more reviews, things
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that people asked me about discounting versus negotiating when I could just
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go through the table of contents.
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And every one of those things is somebody, something that somebody
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or many people asked me that I had already been speaking about.
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It just happened to not be in any of the books.
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And that's a great place for you or anybody to start is the things
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that you already know the things that you already speak about.
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And here's what I did here.
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This is the scientific process.
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I'm going to give you this Becca.
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I literally made a bullet point list of those 35 things.
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And then when I was sitting on a plane, I went to a bullet point and I just started
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writing what I would say to you if I was going to explain whatever that thing was
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some of them, four or five paragraphs.
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Some of them, probably four or five pages and that's it.
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And, and the way I wrote this book is that every chapter stands on its own.
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So you literally could jump around.
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You don't have to go front to back because if you just want to go to whatever
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chapter 20 is, whatever that happens to be, that's where you could start
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because that's what you needed to know.
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So don't overthink like, what is a book?
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It has to be like a novel front to back.
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No, no, it doesn't.
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It just has to be value for the person that gets it and reads it.
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I
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Becca: love that.
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But now they're going to ask you more questions, Alan.
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You're going to have to write the next book based on that.
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I've already started the list.
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Absolutely.
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Love that.
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So your newest book, it's out now.
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Is that right?
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And what's it called?
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Alan: It is called Stop Selling and Help Them Buy Weddings and Events.
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And it's the follow up to my most popular book, which is Shut Up
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and Sell More Weddings and Events.
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And the reason I say stop selling and help them buy is because most of the
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people listening, most of the people that you get to speak to and work
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with are getting enquiries already.
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And that means the person that's inquiring already has a need
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for whatever it is that you do.
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So whether it's dresses or catering or a venue or videography or transportation
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or whatever, they needed it already.
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So don't sell it to them.
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Help them buy the results that only you can provide.
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And that's a theme that kind of goes through many of the chapters in
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the book is don't sell your stuff.
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Don't sell your, your equipment.
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Don't sell your experience even.
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Sell their experience, sell their results, because the
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results you provide are unique.
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I actually did a podcast on my podcast, Wedding Business Solutions
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Podcast, about are your results really better, or are they just different?
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And the truth is, we'll never know if they're better, because this wedding's
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only going to happen once, and if you're the one taking the pictures, or you're the
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one baking the cake, nobody else is, so how will we really know if it was better?
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But they have to perceive that it's better because that's why they
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chose you because they want the results that only you can provide.
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Love that.
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Becca: So go and check out Alan's newest book.
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All of his books are fabulous.
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So I know that you're going to love it.
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And I'll make sure I put a link to that in the show notes as well.
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Now, I wanted to ask you a question, Alan, because you've been around in the
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industry, as we said, for a long time, and I know that one of the things my pros
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really struggle with, especially when they've started to be in the industry a
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long time, is worrying about other people up and coming behind them, the new people.
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And you'll know, I mean, I've been doing this speaking and
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coaching and teaching since 2016.
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You've been doing it a whole lot longer than me, but in the last few
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years, there's been an explosion of people doing this kind of thing.
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So how do you approach that so that you can help those?
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Wedding pros who are thinking, Oh, look at all these other florists.
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Look at all these other photographers coming up behind me.
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How do I stay fresh?
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How do you do it?
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Well, the
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Alan: first thing I say, give them a dose of reality.
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And I say, weren't you the new kid on the block once?
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I mean, you were that same person.
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So what you hope for is not that they're going to go away because you didn't
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want people to hope for that, for you.
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Like when you started, you didn't want to be like, go away, you
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know, get out of here, kid.
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Right.
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What you want them to do is to do it at a high level and to learn to do it at a high
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level because the more people that do this well, the more it pushes you to be better.
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And I have a personal philosophy is that I don't want to ever be
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the best I can ever be at anything.
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I just want to be the best I've ever been every time I do that.
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So every time I speak, it should be the best speech I've ever given,
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but not the best I can ever give, meaning I can still be better.
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Or that this book is the best I could ever write.
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Well, if it is, it's the last book I'll ever write.
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So, but if I know I can do better or add more, I'm going to add more.
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So that's the first thing is just remember you can't stop them and
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you were them, just you were them.
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So, you know, let's, let's just remember that.
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What you want to do is really, it's kind of the opposite is help
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them understand how to do it.
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Well, join the right associations, get coaching from professionals like you
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go to conferences like yours, go to the one, you know, the one that I'm going
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to be speaking at next month in, in London, that's the photo booth expo.
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You know, that conference or the workshop that I'm doing there, what
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you want to do is have them do it at a high level so that they're not
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charging so much less than you anymore.
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They're actually charging on par and now people are going to choose you based upon.
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They want your results.
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Not because you're cheaper.
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If somebody's choosing someone because they're cheaper.
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It's usually because they don't perceive any difference, like they,
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they, you look the same to them and they'll choose the cheaper one.
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The only reason we pay more is because there's something
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there that says we want that.
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Now there, a lot of them are intangible.
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So it's right.
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Like why does someone buy a Mercedes Benz instead of a Skoda, right?
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On paper, they kind of all look the same, right?
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They both have four tires and a steering wheel and airbags and
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Bluetooth and all this kind of stuff.
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But yet the Mercedes means something to someone, you know, is the quality better?
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We could say that, but kind of these days all new cars are pretty darn good, right?
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But people spend more because of the intangible.
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They want that aspiration, whatever it is.
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So if they don't perceive a difference, then they're going to go with cheaper.
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So let them learn how to do it.
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Well, let them do it at a high level.
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Cause the worst thing that happens is if somebody.
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Does a bad job no matter what the price point is.
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If they do a bad job, they make you all look bad, right?
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If somebody's pictures don't come out, well, all photographers
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are suspect right now, right?
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If somebody's cake doesn't taste well or falls over or melts or whatever
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it is, whatever happens, all cake bakers are suspect now, right?
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So we want you to do it at a high level.
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Otherwise, you know, they're bringing us all down.
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So.
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Mentor them, just like you would have wanted to be mentored, even if you
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didn't get mentored, mentor them.
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I just came from a speaker conference, the National Speakers Association.
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Imagine this, Becca, 1100 professional speakers at the same place, right?
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Try to get a word in edgewise there.
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Uh, but I was an ambassador, which means I was a, a, a, a buddy to two first timers.
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Two people, they weren't new speakers, they were new to the conference.
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And 16 years ago, I was new to the conference and didn't know anybody.
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And now I can't walk down the hall without seeing people I know.
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And I had the opportunity to introduce these new people to my friends and
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stuff like that and do that as opposed to looking at them as competition.
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No.
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Right.
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So the next thing to think of is.
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There's enough weddings to go around.
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I mean, let's face it.
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There's enough weddings and events to go around.
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And if you're going to worry about somebody else getting a job and that
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you didn't get that, you're focusing on the wrong thing because you're
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focusing on something you can't control.
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What you can control is where you're marketing and advertising,
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how you're responding to inquiries, how much you're following up, how
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you're having better conversations, how your website looks, right?
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You can, you can control those things.
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So focus on what you can control instead of what you can't.
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Becca: I love that and I love that ethos about passing it on to the
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next people and being a mentor and seeing people As future collaborators
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really rather than competition.
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I 100% agree with you And I think that's a fabulous ethos to have now the one
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thing I really want to get into in this podcast is a subject that I Often talk
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about you when you're not you don't even know your ears are burning When
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people bring it up to me, which is ghosting because a couple of years back
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at my summit, you did a great session all about how to follow up on emails.
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And my students still talk about it to this day.
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They still reference it.
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I still send them to go back and watch the replay all of the time, but not
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everyone's seen that video and not everyone will have access to that.
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So I'd love to get in a little bit deeper to this whole idea of ghosting.
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Now for a start, I don't really like the term ghosting, but
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we all know what it means.
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It's basically when we Send someone a message or they send us a message to
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inquire, we send something back and then they disappear off the face of the earth.
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And right now, a lot of people are struggling with this, specifically
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when it comes to inquiries from some of the big directories.
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So here in the UK, we've got Hitched, we've got Bridebook, Guides for Brides.
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In the US, obviously, you've got The Knot and Wedding Wire.
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So I'd just love to hear some thoughts about These inquiries coming
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from directories, are we thinking they're good leads, bad leads?
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Are we unsure?
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And how should we be dealing
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Alan: with them?
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Great, great question.
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And the reason that, uh, I call it my COVID win.
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That's kind of a funny thing to say, but one of the things I got to do
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during COVID, and I know you're going to hate me for this again, because
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I wrote another book, was I wrote the book, Why Are They Ghosting Me?
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And the reason I wrote the book was because so many people were
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feeling this exact frustration.
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And I was speaking about this and I do this in my private training and coaching.
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So.
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I just think, well, write the book, right?
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I mean, just, just put into the, into paper.
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And I have a book called, why are they ghosting me?
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I like my fun titles.
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Interesting sidebar.
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When we translated it to Spanish, we didn't translate literally
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to why are they ghosting me?
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Because ghosting doesn't necessarily mean what we think it does in other countries.
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So in Spanish it's por que me ignoran, which is why are they ignoring me
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instead of why are they ghosting me?
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But then we use the word ghosting because we found out some countries.
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In that Spanish speaking will insert the English word ghosting like they'll,
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they'll say that they're being ghosted by using the word ghosting in English,
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even though they're speaking in Spanish.
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So, so here's the thing with with ghosting a lot of the reasons
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that people are getting ghosted.
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Is your own fault and I'm going to get into that.
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So is it a bad lead when it comes to the directory?
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So think about the process.
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If somebody goes to any of those sites that you mentioned guides for
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brides hitched, the knot wedding wire, whatever it is, by the time you get an
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inquiry, think about what's happened.
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Like if we could actually see this.
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What, like in the movies, right?
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And now we can see this stuff that we can't see when we're
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really, what, what had happened?
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Well, first of all, they had to get to that site.
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So they did some sort of a search referred to it, linked up somehow.
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Then they had to go to your part of your country, right?
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So your, your county, your, your borough, your state here, your, whatever it
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is, they had to go to your category.
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They had to look at all the possible choices there.
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They had to eliminate most of them.
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Because they're not going to reach out to everybody.
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They're going to reach out to a handful, right?
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It could be three or five or seven.
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I know there's some crazies that'll reach out to more than that, but
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you and I know that most of them are going to reach out to by the time
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they reach out, by the time they make that actual message and that enquiry
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three or five or something like that.
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Okay.
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How many others didn't get that inquiry?
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Like we were just talking before about how many new competitors
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and stuff are there, right?
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How many didn't get that?
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So imagine if you were in Oxfordshire, right?
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And someone's looking for a photographer or they're looking for a DJ or something.
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How many possible choices were there and how many actually got that inquiry?
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So the possible choices were a lot.
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That's an official, official number.
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There were a lot, but how many got the enquiry was three to five.
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So at that point, again, what are you trying to do is just continue the
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conversation that that couple started.
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This isn't cold calling.
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Becca, have you ever done cold calling in your sales career?
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Becca: I have when I worked in the radio and it isn't
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Alan: fun.
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Right.
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And the reason it isn't fun is because you don't know if there's a need.
16:32
Right.
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You're calling people to find out if these now, you know, that they could
16:35
benefit from it because you're calling businesses to advertise on the radio.
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They could get bit.
16:39
Right.
16:39
And we know, but we're not cold calling here.
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They're raising their hand and saying, I want to find out more about what you do.
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Oh, and by the way, I don't want to find out about the 95% of the
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others that, that I could have seen.
16:52
Right.
16:52
What?
16:52
There's a great book.
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I didn't write this one.
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It's called the paradox of choice.
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And the paradox of choice by a man named Barry Schwartz,
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fantastic book, really easy read.
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I did the audio book and it talks about how we want to know we've seen
17:05
all the choices, but then when we see all the choices, we can't decide.
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And the more choices there are, the harder it is to decide
17:12
because we're human beings.
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So just think about going to Amazon, right?
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If I go to Amazon UK right now and I search for anything, I'm going to
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come up with thousands of choices.
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And then I got to click prime and then I got to click four stars and I'm still
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going to have thousands of choices.
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And if you've ever gone to Amazon and left without buying anything because
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you're like, uh, I just don't, I can't decide that decision paralysis.
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Well, by the time you get an inquiry, then it's not decision paralysis.
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They've eliminated most of those others.
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And you're in this small group.
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And if you could see that, just imagine Becca, if you could
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see like 50, uh, florists.
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Right?
17:50
And then all of a sudden they start disappearing and
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there's only five of you left.
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And now you're only competing against those other five.
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You'd stare them down and go, uh, this is mine.
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This is my sale, not yours.
18:00
Right?
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50.
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You can't imagine, right?
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You can't battle 50, but you're not, you're not.
18:05
So the mistakes I see people making with the ghost thing is you're trying
18:08
to rush the process because what would you do if the phone actually rang?
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And I think, you know, I wrote a book called, why don't they call me before
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I wrote, why are they ghosting me?
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Because that was the other complaint I would hear is like, it'd be so much
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easier if they would just ring me up.
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We could just talk right now, this would be so much easier.
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And then I remind them that they're Millennials and Gen Z and this thing
18:29
that they carry in their pocket.
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Yes, it's a phone, but they don't use it for that.
18:33
They use it for everything else.
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So, if you try to change them from a digital inquiry, so a message, a WhatsApp,
18:42
a text or whatever, To a phone call, to a zoom, to an in person meeting or a show
18:46
round, you're actually going to turn them off because you're trying to rush the
18:51
process with a high commitment action.
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Think about it.
18:55
It's a low commitment to fill out your contact form.
18:57
It's a low commitment to send you a message.
18:59
I'm not anonymous, right?
19:00
Cause you know who I am.
19:02
But there's this arm's length thing right between us called this digital medium.
19:06
But if you get on the phone with me, well, this is real time.
19:10
I have to do this in real time.
19:11
If I come into your venue for a show run, this is real time.
19:13
I, uh, that, that's a high commitment.
19:16
So if you're asking for a phone call or a tour or a show round
19:19
or a zoom or whatever right away, And you're getting ghosted a lot.
19:23
That's probably one of the biggest reasons.
19:26
And just think about yourself as a customer.
19:28
You reach out to someone through their website.
19:31
You want to get an email back, right?
19:33
But now all of a sudden your phone rings and you're like, Oh no, I didn't
19:37
want to talk to you because I could have called you, but I didn't call you.
19:40
Right.
19:41
If I, if I wanted to talk on the phone, I would have called you, but I didn't.
19:44
So they don't answer the phone.
19:45
Right.
19:45
So.
19:46
We're no different, but we want them to do something that would be different
19:50
than what we would do ourselves.
19:51
Right?
19:52
So ask them to call the meeting right away.
19:55
Another one.
19:55
And I'm sure you've seen this too.
19:57
How many screens on your phone?
20:00
Would you like that message to be right back?
20:02
If you're a customer, how many screens do you want it to be one?
20:07
Okay.
20:08
So the other day I was looking at someone's message that they sent
20:11
me because they were telling me ghosted from these directory leads.
20:16
Right?
20:16
Okay.
20:17
I stopped counting at nine, nine.
20:21
Wow.
20:22
Right.
20:22
I know people listening that watching, but if you could have
20:24
seen her face just now nine, right?
20:27
Two is too much, right?
20:28
Three is way too much.
20:30
Nine.
20:30
Oh, and four attachments by the way.
20:32
Right?
20:33
So why are the attachments bad?
20:35
Well, his attachments weren't made for a screen they were made for A4 paper.
20:39
Or double A4, right?
20:40
So now, all of a sudden I'm pinching to try to read this tiny print.
20:45
What's my user experience?
20:47
It says, go away.
20:48
Somebody is going to make this easier for me.
20:50
So attachments are bad.
20:51
Why else are attachments bad?
20:53
What do you want that brochure to do?
20:56
You want to get them to be interested to contact you.
20:59
Wait a minute.
21:00
They already contacted you.
21:02
So why am I sending you a brochure that's going to do exactly the
21:05
opposite of what you want, which is now I'm not going to respond to you.
21:08
I'm going to go open that brochure.
21:10
I can't read it well.
21:11
Now I'm going to wait till I get to my laptop or my tablet.
21:13
Which means I may not ever get to it.
21:15
Okay, links.
21:16
Why are links bad?
21:18
Um, uh, secret shopping.
21:19
Oh, when you come to wedding MBA, if you come on the Monday, I'm doing
21:22
a presentation on secret shopping.
21:25
And because with my consulting, do you do that?
21:28
Do you do any secret shopping with your, with your, uh, students or
21:31
Becca: clients?
21:32
Yeah, sometimes, but I don't always tell them that I've done it until a little bit
21:36
after, or sometimes I'll just do it just on random websites and then give feedback.
21:40
I don't even necessarily do it with people that I'm working with.
21:42
Right.
21:43
Alan: Well, we're doing right now.
21:44
We always do it with a lot of our clients, but I'm actually
21:46
doing a presentation on this.
21:47
So we are a secret shopping, probably about a hundred companies right now.
21:53
And really all we do is we fill out a contact form or go to one of these
21:56
directory sites and fill out, you know, an enquiry and then just see how many
22:00
times they try before they give up.
22:02
And the answer is most give up way too soon.
22:05
Most give up after one or two attempts.
22:07
Well, if you're worried about getting ghosted.
22:09
And you're not following up when they don't respond to you.
22:12
You're just waiting for them to respond to you.
22:14
It's not up to them to do it.
22:16
It's up to you to show them that you're still interested because your message,
22:19
your first message is so far buried in their inbox or messaging system that
22:25
you are expecting them to find it.
22:27
Right?
22:27
So just every time you respond, you come to the top of their inbox, you
22:31
come to the top of their messaging.
22:32
So why wouldn't you try again?
22:35
I have slides in almost all my presentations these days that say the
22:38
biggest opportunity that you have are the people that have already reached
22:42
out and have not told you, no, if they told you, yes, you're moving forward.
22:47
If they have not told you, no, it does not mean they've booked someone else.
22:50
And, and, and Becca and I could tell you that.
22:53
Do you, if you keep following up or one of the few that is still following up as
22:58
you go down the line and it's really, I just told this director of sales for this
23:03
company I'm going to in about two weeks.
23:06
We started shopping her people, two of her clubs.
23:09
These are private clubs, golf courses, country clubs, right?
23:12
Some of the worst subject lines I've ever seen on, on emails.
23:16
They're basically whatever the system created.
23:19
And it was something like new form, uh, number sign 349, right?
23:26
Can you imagine like you're inquiring about a wedding at a beautiful venue?
23:29
A beautiful venues, by the way.
23:31
And this is the subject line is new forum enquiry.
23:34
Number 349.
23:35
Oh, let's make this transactional.
23:37
Why don't we.
23:37
Right.
23:38
So they probably don't even know because they don't see what the customer sees.
23:44
Right?
23:45
So keeping it short, no links.
23:48
Uh, one company sent me two links to Google drive photos, right?
23:53
Not, not like a photo gallery app or anything, which I wouldn't do
23:56
either, but just a Google drive.
23:58
So I literally clicked on the link, landed in a Google drive and it
24:00
just on my phone just starts loading photos, loading photos, loading photos,
24:03
loading photos, loading photos, and it's going, it's going, it's going.
24:07
And you're wondering why they don't respond to you.
24:09
You just sent them 150 photos, right?
24:12
So if you, if you think about it, don't give him anything to look at.
24:16
Don't give them anything to open.
24:17
Don't give them any links to go to just.
24:20
Have a conversation.
24:21
If the phone had rung, what would you say to this person if they said
24:24
those exact words that they wrote?
24:26
You wouldn't attach anything.
24:27
You wouldn't say, give me your email and I'll, I'll send you something.
24:31
Just have a
24:31
Becca: conversation.
24:32
Really helpful.
24:33
And I'm sure there'll be people listening to this thinking, okay,
24:35
I'm making loads of these mistakes.
24:37
I need to change the way I respond to the enquiries.
24:39
Now I know that on some of the directories here, it's probably.
24:42
The same in the States that the directories are making it really
24:45
easy for people to inquire.
24:46
They're doing the low friction.
24:47
And so quite often the pros will just get an email that's a standardized,
24:52
Hey, send me a wedding brochure or, Hey, we want more details.
24:56
So yeah, Taking everything you've just said, I'm the florist, the photographer,
25:01
I've received this standard, send me the brochure, what am I sending
25:05
back in that really short one page
25:07
Alan: email?
25:09
Okay, so because that is that standard text, it doesn't mean
25:12
that's what they really want.
25:13
They are just taking that easy, effortless route, right?
25:16
Uh, I read a book recently called The Effortless Experience, uh, Matthew
25:20
Dixon, I think, was the author.
25:21
They have a few good books.
25:23
Uh, but effort or friction, right?
25:25
It's just easy, right?
25:26
So we take the easy route.
25:28
What you want to do is you want to have a conversation now, if they say, send
25:33
me your brochure, what I would go back and say, thanks so much for inquiring.
25:36
I would not say congratulations on your engagement.
25:39
And the reason is so many wedding pros use that phrase or something like
25:43
that, that the first time a couple gets, it's like, Oh, that was nice.
25:46
The 16th time they see that it's like, okay, just enough already.
25:50
So just speak to them in your voice.
25:53
Don't make it sound like you can copy and paste it, but don't make
25:57
it sound like you copied and pasted.
25:59
Thanks so much for one more thing.
26:00
Use results based raising.
26:03
So if it's a florist, thanks so much for reaching out about
26:06
having us help you bring amazing, beautiful flowers to your wedding.
26:10
Okay.
26:12
Not just thanks for reaching out.
26:13
We're available on your date.
26:15
Put put in the date.
26:16
We would love to get you information.
26:17
It's attached, right?
26:18
That's just transactional.
26:20
We'd love to help you have beautiful, amazing flowers for your wedding.
26:25
I'd love to get you some information.
26:27
I want to make sure I don't send you anything.
26:29
You don't need.
26:30
And I want to get your pricing that fits your budget.
26:32
And so you don't pay for anything you don't want.
26:35
So let me ask you a few questions so I can get you just the information you need.
26:39
So we can help you have an amazing wedding experience.
26:43
And then I would ask one question, one question.
26:47
I'm going to repeat that everybody listening.
26:48
This is a conversation, not an interrogation.
26:51
We send one question at a time.
26:53
Oh, that was another one I saw the other day in secret shopping.
26:55
Uh, 12 questions, no joke, 12 in bullet point, 12 questions.
27:01
They're not having a conversation.
27:02
They're having an interrogation, right?
27:04
So the first question should be a low commitment question that they
27:07
don't have to talk to their partner.
27:09
They don't have to think about it.
27:11
There's no deep thought.
27:12
What's your vision for your day or anything like that?
27:14
It's a simple question because the goal of the first response is
27:17
to get them to reply back to you, which is what they're not doing.
27:20
That's why you're frustrated with ghosting.
27:22
So if I said to that florist, are you having both your ceremony and reception at
27:27
the same location or at different places?
27:30
They could come back and say, Oh, we're getting married at the church.
27:32
This is the church and here's the reception, or we're having a
27:35
civil ceremony and we're having them both at the same place.
27:37
Well, you as a florist would want to know that.
27:39
Do I have to go to the church and set up flowers and then do I have
27:42
to go to a venue to set up flowers?
27:43
Right?
27:44
You need to know those kinds of things.
27:45
Right about the bridal party, if we might ask about the number
27:49
of people in the bridal party.
27:50
So we can start thinking about that.
27:51
We could ask questions about the venue in terms of maybe the number of tables or is
27:57
there a cocktail reception before that?
28:00
We wanted to set up decorations.
28:02
If the ceremony is at the venue, do I want some sort of an arch, right?
28:06
The things like this, but one question at a time to build this rapport first.
28:11
Before you build the package, right?
28:13
We build the repport, then we'll build the package.
28:15
So that would be how I would start that if they specifically ask about pricing.
28:22
And then a lot of times they'll say, could you send over your pricing?
28:26
I always talk about there's 4 ways to talk about pricing.
28:28
I think I spoke about this at your, uh, for your thing.
28:31
Gosh, it's so long ago.
28:32
It seems like.
28:33
But there's four ways to talk about pricing for anything.
28:35
The first is if you have all the details, give them the price and ask for the sale.
28:39
Now that's not going to be on an initial inquiry because you certainly
28:43
don't have the details yet, but let's say someone asks you about an upsell.
28:47
So if somebody says to the DJ, you know, I saw that someone had the
28:51
monogram with their, their initials, you know, projected on a wall.
28:54
Can you do that?
28:55
Say, Oh, absolutely.
28:56
We can do a monogram for you.
28:57
That would only be this much.
28:59
Would you like me to add that to your wedding order?
29:01
Right.
29:01
So you give them a price, ask for the sale.
29:04
The second way is kind of what I just said, which is you don't tell them,
29:08
but you tell them that you're going to tell them, but you show them why
29:11
you didn't tell them, which is I'd love to give you pricing information.
29:14
I want to make sure that I don't leave out anything that's important to you.
29:17
And I certainly don't want you to pay for anything you don't need.
29:20
Which by the way are both true statements.
29:22
I don't want to leave out anything.
29:24
I hate when someone gives a price and then they say, Oh, does that include this?
29:27
Oh no, no, that's going to be more.
29:28
Does that include this?
29:29
No, no, no.
29:30
That's going to be more.
29:30
So find that out upfront before you give the price, but also don't charge
29:34
them for things they don't need.
29:36
I didn't say for things they don't want because they don't know what they need
29:39
yet because they haven't done this before.
29:41
And even if they have done it before, it's probably either a while ago or it
29:45
was a different type of a setup for them.
29:47
So they don't, they can't ask for things they don't know.
29:51
If they don't know what exists, they can't ask, but you also have to say to them
29:54
things like, what if their venue provides tables and chairs, but not linens, right?
29:58
Well, what if you, if you didn't include the price for the linens,
30:01
all of a sudden, you don't want them coming in with no limits on the tables.
30:04
So, of course, you're going to charge them for those things.
30:07
The third way would be a starting price, which I hate.
30:11
And I think you and I, and everybody listening hates this for the same reason.
30:15
Starting price tells us the cheapest thing that that business offers.
30:19
It doesn't tell us what we're going to pay.
30:21
And if that starting price is not close to the price that most people actually pay.
30:26
You're hurting yourself, not just them.
30:29
You're hurting yourself because you have to sell them up from the
30:31
bottom now, instead of selling them to the price point that they're
30:34
actually going to end up with.
30:36
So the only time you do a starting price is when there
30:38
isn't a big variation on price.
30:40
So if you say, well, this goes from, uh, you know, uh, 1, 700 pound to 2000 pound.
30:45
Okay.
30:46
That's not a big range.
30:47
You could say starting at 1, 700, it's okay.
30:49
But if it goes from 1, 700 to 5, 000 and most people spend 3, 800, Well, now you're
30:55
hurting both yourself and them because they think they're going to spend 1700
30:58
because that's the only number they heard.
31:00
So the only time you use that when there isn't a big range and then the fourth way,
31:04
which is my favorite way to give people an idea of price, which you hear that a lot.
31:07
Can you give me an idea?
31:08
Can you give me an idea what it costs?
31:10
But when you have no details, you can't give them theirs, but you can
31:14
say, well, I don't have the details about your wedding yet, but what I
31:17
can tell you is the weddings that we do range from here to here.
31:21
With most of our couples ending up around here, which could be another
31:24
range or could be another number.
31:26
So give you an idea.
31:27
One of my clients was getting way too many people that couldn't
31:29
afford their high end venue.
31:31
So their website now says that weddings from May through October,
31:35
which is their high season.
31:36
Range from 34, 000 to 82, 000.
31:40
That's it.
31:41
That's what it says.
31:41
That's called anchoring.
31:42
We put those two anchors in the ground at 34 and 82.
31:45
And if you're not playing in that pitch, go someplace else.
31:50
So their enquiries dropped, which meant their show rounds dropped and their sales
31:55
went up because they're only dealing with people now who have a budget for that.
31:58
So that, that would be the way to talk about price.
32:00
So here's what you could do on those directory sites is write
32:03
up the two different versions.
32:05
So the one is, let's say I'll use a videographer this time.
32:09
Uh, thanks for reaching out, uh, about having us capture your beautiful
32:12
wedding film and all the sights and sounds from your wedding day.
32:17
We'd love to give you pricing information, but before we do, let's
32:20
make sure we don't leave out anything that's important to you or charge
32:23
you for anything that you don't need.
32:25
And let me get just a few details.
32:27
So, I can give you a price and then new paragraph and for videographer,
32:31
I would say, uh, will you be getting ready at your venue or at your
32:35
ceremony venue or at another location?
32:38
Because videographer is going to start with the getting ready, right?
32:40
Could be a mom and dad's house.
32:42
Could be at the church, could be at the venue, could be at a hotel, right?
32:45
Things like that.
32:46
The other way to do it would be thanks so much for reaching out.
32:48
We'd love to capture your beautiful wedding film and all the sights
32:51
and sounds of your wedding day.
32:52
Um, I don't have enough details to give you your price just yet, but
32:55
I can tell you that the weddings that we do range from pick numbers,
32:59
2, 500 to 8, 000 plus with most of our couples ending up between 500.
33:06
Let me get a few details from you so I can help narrow that down for your wedding.
33:10
And then you ask the first question again, so you can have those two written.
33:13
And what I actually suggest is, uh, you know what AB testing is back.
33:17
I know you do it and not everybody does.
33:19
Try one, then the next enquiry, try the other one, then go back to the first
33:23
one, then the next one, the first one, then the next one, and just see what
33:25
Becca: works best.
33:26
Absolutely.
33:27
All of that is gold.
33:28
I'm sure that people are at home scribbling down their notes and if
33:31
they're out for a run or in their car, they're going to be pausing it and
33:34
going back to re listen to everything that you've just said, because
33:37
there's so much great stuff in there.
33:39
Now the question that we know that gets asked all of the time on this
33:43
subject, as we start to bring this conversation to its conclusion is,
33:47
okay, Alan, well, I've sent my email.
33:49
They've ignored me.
33:50
I've sent another email.
33:51
They've ignored me.
33:52
Should I give up now?
33:53
Or how many times should I try before I give up?
33:56
Alan: It would depend upon when the wedding date is and what your service is.
34:01
However, if they have not told you, no, you want to keep following up and give
34:08
them an easy way to tell, you know, so first of all, two times is way too few.
34:12
Uh, in my book, why are they ghosting me?
34:14
I outline a five or six time process before you'd even
34:18
think about giving up, right?
34:20
I have clients that are doing way more than that.
34:22
And in my secret shopping, I stopped counting at this one venue at 10 times.
34:26
I stopped counting at 10.
34:27
They're still sending us messages.
34:29
I stopped counting at 10.
34:31
So, first of all, know that most of your competitors are
34:34
giving up after one or two.
34:36
So if you knew that, you should at least do three or four if you know that
34:40
they're giving up after one or two.
34:41
But it's also the timing, Becca.
34:43
It's not just how many times, it's how often you're doing this.
34:46
So I'm going to give you the cliff notes version of this.
34:49
Cause I, we, we could do, I think we did.
34:51
I, when I spoke at your event, we did a whole thing on this.
34:53
Um, and it is in the books and things, and people can reach out
34:56
to me and find out my podcast too.
34:58
So the day you get it, unless it's late at night, you respond right away.
35:03
And, and that's because couples will say that about half the time they tend
35:07
to use the first one that responds.
35:09
So let's be the first one when we can.
35:13
Respond as quickly as you can because you can't ignore your current customers.
35:18
You can't ignore your family, your pets.
35:21
You're, you're, you're, you're, you're significant others,
35:24
your parents, your whatever.
35:26
There's things in your life between volunteering and watching your kids
35:29
do dance and Taekwondo and you know, whatever you have stuff to do and get
35:33
your face out of your phone sometimes.
35:35
Please let's, let's do that.
35:36
But respond as quickly as you can.
35:38
If you have not heard back by the next day, yes, he said the next
35:42
day, there are some people don't, don't go, don't drive off the road
35:45
when you're listening to this.
35:46
I said the next day, because what I said earlier was, can we put ourselves
35:50
back at the top of their inbox?
35:52
So the next day, you just put yourself at the top of the
35:54
inbox, but here's what you do.
35:55
Don't overthink it.
35:56
Just put a little preamble at the beginning of the exact same
35:59
message you sent the day before.
36:01
Right?
36:01
I actually, I use Outlook and I go into my sent folder, find
36:04
the same message, say, resend.
36:07
And at the beginning, I say, hi, Becca, just making sure this
36:10
made it through to your inbox.
36:12
Blame the spam filter, right?
36:13
And then it's the exact same message.
36:16
Now, if they still don't respond to that, by the next day, if you have
36:20
not already tried a different method, calling them, texting them, WhatsAppping
36:25
them, something else, try something else because they're just maybe not seeing.
36:30
I said, maybe not seeing because a lot of times they are seeing it,
36:34
but you're not a priority right now.
36:35
Something else in their life is a priority work, family, whatever
36:39
is a priority right now, and we've all done the same thing, right?
36:41
You fill out something, and then you get a response like, oh, I can't
36:45
look at that right now, and then it starts getting buried in your inbox.
36:48
Right?
36:48
So let's put ourselves at the top call text.
36:51
What's app do something else.
36:53
If you have not already tried that.
36:55
Because if it is going to spam, if you are just sending them emails and it's
36:59
going to spam, send them 10 more emails.
37:01
They're going to go to spam.
37:02
It's not going to change anything.
37:04
So let's try a different method.
37:05
Now, if you still have not heard back, let it sit for a couple of days.
37:08
You've already tried three times.
37:10
Your competitors have tried once or, or zero.
37:13
I hate to say that, but on our secret shopping, I have companies that
37:16
have not responded at all, which if I had hair, I'd pull it out.
37:20
I mean, it's just, I so frustrated.
37:23
So wait a few days and send one.
37:26
Sentence one sentence.
37:28
Oh, by the way, when you do those other emails, your one question at
37:31
the end is always its own paragraph.
37:33
So it stands out because people scan.
37:35
They don't read a scan BCC yourself for a couple of weeks to see how
37:39
long your messages are on phone.
37:41
So you can open above on your phone and see.
37:44
And don't write anything after the question except your name.
37:47
Don't write, I look forward to hearing back from you.
37:49
Can't wait to work with you.
37:50
No, you're burying the question if you do that.
37:52
When you ask a question, you stop talking.
37:55
That's it.
37:55
Stop writing.
37:57
So send them one question.
37:58
Are you still looking for a talented filmmaker to capture
38:01
your beautiful wedding images?
38:02
Are you still looking for a creative caterer to bring amazing...
38:06
Uh, food and, uh, that looks as good as it tastes, right?
38:09
Or tastes as good as it looks, right?
38:12
One question results based phrase that allows them to come back and
38:15
say, no, I'm not still looking.
38:17
I've chosen somebody else because if you can get your list of ghosts
38:22
down, because you know, they've booked someone else, you'd have more time to
38:26
follow up with the ones that haven't.
38:28
And this is a big thing with people is you have this incredible stack of ghosts.
38:32
So many of them have chosen someone else and haven't told, you know, Because
38:36
they want to avoid the confrontation.
38:38
Right.
38:38
Or they just haven't asked.
38:40
So ask.
38:41
I had that recently where I reached out to some companies and two out of the
38:44
three told me, you know what, we're going to hold off right now on whatever it is.
38:48
Right.
38:49
My question back to them is, you know, when would you like
38:51
me to follow up with you next?
38:53
Right.
38:53
So I don't even leave it at that because with my business and your business,
38:56
they could still do business with us.
38:58
Whereas if the weddings happened, you know, let me know about your next wedding.
39:01
You know, that's, that's a little, probably don't want to say that.
39:03
Um, now once you've left that one alone, let it go for another week or so.
39:09
And then I like to send something funny, uh, just, you know, something that,
39:12
that's going to make them smile and a good subject line like, um, lost your paddles.
39:18
And then inside, uh, hi, Becky, you reached out about having us bring
39:21
amazing flowers to your wedding.
39:22
We haven't heard back.
39:24
Can only imagine it's one of these reasons.
39:26
Bullet number one, you've chosen another florist.
39:28
Just let us know number two.
39:30
You're so glad I reached out because you'd still like to talk to us about having
39:32
our amazing flowers at your wedding.
39:34
Number three, you want to talk to us, but you're busy.
39:36
Want me to reach out again next week?
39:38
And number four, you've been kayaking on the Thames and you lost your paddle
39:41
and you need me to send out the coast guard or something funny like that.
39:44
Right?
39:45
Just come up with something.
39:46
I like local things.
39:47
If you can.
39:48
I had one person that did the subject line was microwave or air pop.
39:53
Okay.
39:53
And number four was you were binge watching shows on Netflix and
39:56
you're running out of popcorn and you want me to send more, right?
39:58
So just something fun and the idea is when they see a fun subject line and
40:04
when they see a fun message, they will stop and many people will come back
40:08
and tell you either I've chosen someone else or I still do want to talk to you.
40:12
Maybe it's not now, but I do want to talk to you.
40:14
It's amazing how well that works.
40:16
Now, if you still don't get a response, one more than one of my clients taught me.
40:21
They waited about another week or so and the subject line
40:24
was did you run off and elope?
40:27
And inside it said, hi, Becca, you reached out about having us whatever,
40:30
you know, whatever it is that you do.
40:31
We haven't heard back.
40:32
We can only imagine that you decided to skip the wedding, go right to the
40:35
honeymoon and you're warming your toes on a sandy beach, drinking a
40:38
cold drink with a small umbrella.
40:40
If that's not the case, would you still like to find out about whatever?
40:43
And that got a client that was very, very interested, but was trying to make
40:47
it work with their budget to reach back out and say, yes, we're still interested.
40:51
You know, can we work something out, right?
40:53
But they hadn't responded to all the other messages.
40:55
So the key is don't send the same message every time.
40:59
Send short messages, no attachments, no links.
41:02
Ask one question and try to get a response, even if it's a no, because
41:07
a no is it's an acceptable response.
41:10
A no is a good response because I can take you off the list
41:12
and don't burn the bridge.
41:14
If they say no, say we wish you a lot of luck with your, with
41:17
your wedding and your marriage.
41:18
And if anything changes, please let us know because sometimes things change.
41:23
Yeah,
41:23
Becca: absolutely.
41:24
And I always say it's not a no until it's a no, it could still be a yes.
41:27
So keep on going with those follow ups, follow the cliff notes or go
41:32
and listen to Alan's podcast as well.
41:34
If you want to find out more about this subject area of ghosting.
41:38
Alan, you've been so generous with your time and your knowledge.
41:41
It's been worth the wait of me finally getting you onto the podcast.
41:45
What's next for you?
41:46
I'd love to know what's next for Alan.
41:47
Is it another book?
41:48
Is there something else coming in the pipeline?
41:50
Alan: Uh, well, right now I'm trying, uh, I'm working on the Spanish version of
41:54
the new book, uh, actually using AI for the translation and I'm having people,
42:00
I already did the AI, but I'm having people check it to see how good it is.
42:03
Cause it needs to be a contextual translation, not a literal translation.
42:08
So I'll be in the UK as we were saying, so I'll be in the UK, uh, in September.
42:13
Or the photo booth expo, I'm doing a workshop open to anybody.
42:16
So on 19th, September from 4 30 to 7 30 PM, I'm doing a workshop.
42:20
I can give you the link for that as well.
42:22
Actually, I can give you a link with a 50 pound discount for your listeners.
42:26
Even better, even better.
42:28
And I'll send you that over.
42:29
And that's like a version of what we're doing here, except we're
42:31
going to dive deeper into their actual wording and messages.
42:35
So you won't have to be scribbling down while you're driving.
42:37
Please don't do that.
42:38
Please don't scribble while you're driving.
42:39
Um, but I, I tend to always have, try to have no more than three things,
42:43
big picture things on my list at one time because it distracts us and we
42:47
dilute our time into those things.
42:49
So right now it's the Spanish book, something that's daily for
42:53
me, 946 days right now is I'm doing French lessons because I was
42:57
supposed to be in Paris in 2020.
42:59
We know what happened in 2020 so that didn't happen.
43:02
Because I've already presented in five countries in Spanish, uh, more
43:06
with, with virtual, I don't know that I want to present in Spanish.
43:09
Well, actually I did present in French once already.
43:10
It was a recorded one, but so learning French, that's on my big picture thing.
43:14
Um, so I will be trilingual, maybe possibly, possibly, uh, um, and,
43:21
uh, what else are the books there?
43:22
And then I, well, I did, I started doing this.
43:24
Oh, actually I know what more I'm writing a version of shut up and sell
43:27
more, but not for the wedding and event industry, because so many people say,
43:31
Hey, this applies to any business.
43:33
And I've had people buy, shut up, and sell more to give to a
43:35
friend who is not in our industry.
43:38
So I'm going into the book, taking out all the wedding and event
43:41
references and making it for anyone.
43:43
And it's going to be shut up and sell more just about anything.
43:46
Becca: Love that.
43:47
That's so exciting.
43:48
And I love that you've got these three big picture things to keep you
43:50
focused and you'll definitely have to come and take a trip to France
43:54
when your French is up to scratch.
43:56
My parents have an apartment down in the South of France.
43:58
So I'm down there a lot.
43:59
You'll have to come hang out in the South of France and.
44:02
Practice your French.
44:04
Now, Alan, I always end the podcast with the same question to every guest I have.
44:10
And it's this, what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own business?
44:14
Alan: In my business, I think I wish I would have gotten a,
44:19
a virtual assistant sooner.
44:23
Uh, you know, we think we can't afford it, but what it was costing
44:27
me before was time with my family.
44:32
Because I'd be sitting on the sofa watching television with my wife and I
44:35
have my laptop and I'm working and it was things that I didn't have to do, like,
44:40
we should all be doing the thing that provides the most value to our businesses.
44:45
And for me, it's content creation.
44:47
Sales, right?
44:47
That's my best value.
44:50
Some formatting things like right today, my new podcast came out and I
44:54
did not have to post it on social and you did that for me and the visual
44:58
soundbite was created and it was posted on my website and the email went out
45:02
and I didn't have to do any of that.
45:04
And I wish I had known sooner that this small investment would free me up.
45:10
Maybe to create more content, maybe to make more sales, but maybe
45:13
just to have more time with my
45:15
Becca: wife.
45:16
Yeah.
45:16
So, so important and outsourcing changed my business.
45:20
It sounds like it's changed yours as well.
45:21
So if you're listening to this and you're feeling overwhelmed a hundred percent,
45:25
look at outsourcing some of those tasks, Alan, it's been such a pleasure.
45:29
I hope that we get to catch up either when you're in London or
45:31
Las Vegas or both, hopefully.
45:34
And, uh, yeah, I hope to see you very soon.
45:37
Alan: Well, I'm looking forward to it.
45:38
Twice this year, that'll be great.
45:41
Becca: Awesome.
45:41
Wasn't Alan amazing?
45:43
Absolutely love chatting with him.
45:45
As I said at the start, I can't believe it's taken so long to get him onto the
45:49
podcast, but I know you'll have found it valuable listening to all of his advice.
45:52
I'll make sure I share the links to his books and all of his other
45:55
information in the show notes.
45:57
And if you do get the opportunity to go and see him when he's in
45:59
London, I highly recommend it.
46:01
I'll see you all next time.