Latest / Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck / Interview with Zon Carvalho | Awakening to Joy Beyond the Shadows

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Interview with Zon Carvalho | Awakening to Joy Beyond the Shadows · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Alive and Kicking Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kay Eck, and this is where we talk to ordinary people about their extraordinary lives.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm delighted to have with me my friend, Zahn Carvalho.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Zahn.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, okay.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just having the best day.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to like dive into this because you have such a compelling backdrop that I know we're going to have a good conversation today.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Best inspiration ever.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get to it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I'm really excited to talk to you about is your work.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I don't want to jump in right there, but one of the things that I find so intriguing with it is that people who see your work now and the videos that you do as a part of your work would never guess that the origination of your work was quite different and that your work evolved as you did as a person.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really fascinated with that, and I can't wait to jump in.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: But let's talk a little bit first about your background and where you came from and what your sense was of yourself as a child.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, hi, my name is Zon Carvalho.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm originally from São Paulo, Brazil.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh born and raised there until I was about 19, and then I moved to the US, been here for 31 years.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I grew up in a really large family, and I was the first.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my dad was the oldest of seven, and that was a very young, dynamic family.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I popped in right as everybody was, you know, under my dad was 20 years old, and I became the first, the first grandson, the first nephew, the first, the first, the first, the first.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that was uh quite the experience, you know, because my family um was really known for being fun and playful, even though they enforced like really strict rules of I don't know how to think of like morals or their belief systems, you know.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So my childhood is very, very diverse, you know, and really, really great.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Really have great memories about it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So your your parents were quite young.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's really young.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering how that affected you as a child.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Did did you witness that they became better parents over time, or what kinds of young mistakes did they make on you?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, all of them.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know how parenting is, you just don't realize it until you've done it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, they were really young.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: My mom was only 19, and I was the cause, you know, of the of the matrimony, since uh, you know, very traditional familiar uh Brazilian families and stuff.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I almost went into Portuguese talking there for a second.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it all began.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: However, I didn't really know, you know, until later on, until like my teen years and and later teen years, that I really understood what they were up against being parents at such a young age.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because as a child, my understanding was authority, mom and dad.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had no idea whether my you know, my mom was 24 or 23 or not even 30, and I'm already getting in trouble, just all of these things, you know, that now that I have kids that I am 50 years old, be like, oh my god, how did they deal with that so young?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't really notice them growing up until there was time for them to break up, you know, and then I noticed them experimenting life, you know, like or trying out things and stuff.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, they've never done this before, you know.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: As a teenager, I couldn't see like my mom tried smoking cigarettes, for example, you know, like to see if there was a thing for her, you know, and so I got a chance to witness these things, you know, like they they tried out life in different ways, you know.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And only then I understood that this is something that they didn't have before, or no, that part of development of self-discovery because they were married with children, you know, and had the family life to look play, you know.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's really interesting.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was childhood like for you?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know you came from a prominent family, so to speak, and what did that mean?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was your upbringing like?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was great.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was it was really awesome because of the people that I was like, I had the pleasure or and the the the privilege, even the word, you know, to be associated with, you know, so that gave me a really good sense of who I wanted to become or who I became as an adult and who I associate myself with.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not a matter of being classist or anything, it's just people that you vibe better with.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a different understanding, a different being is it's not something that you can be bought, it's something that you are, you know.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that um um that affected me, it was because the way that I was brought up.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So rewind, rewind, rewind, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just lost it there for a second.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, um, it was really fun to be able to have friends, you know, and activities with my parents, and everybody kind of knew each other or they knew of each other, you know, like, oh, this is so-and-so.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's so-and-so's son, you know.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So even though the it's a really large city and a lot of millions and millions of people, there is a part of it where everybody kind of connects, you know.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So does that answer your question?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what was like the cultural context that you grow up you grew up in?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Was it like, was there music, was there food, was there religion, was there mysticism, was there family?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: What were the kind of running themes through your childhood?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, to all of the questions, you know, everything that you said, yes, it was there.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Brazil is a very awesome, interesting place, you know, because I had the the opportunity to be in with in a family environment with in an affluent family with a lot of businesses and names and things that we got a chance to experience before everything that was because of everything that was created as a family, and because of that, there was a lot of fun, you know, and then in contrast of that, there is Brazil itself, you know, which is a country of magic and sensuality and mysticism and all of these things that happen just in the everyday life, you know.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, you know, I will be like leaving my grandma's house after lunch with the family, you know, and there's uh food and all of this um abundance of everything, you know, and then you get out and you go driving home and stuff, and you drive by a crossroads, and there is some uh condomble, you know, work being done there on that crossroads in the corner, you know.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there is a decapitated chicken, you know, with a black chicken with red candles and roses, and you know, there is that, so there was a blend of all, and you drive by on the street, and the billboards on the street is advertising the new issue of Playboy magazine that has this supermodel chick, you know, naked on the cover on the billboard.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the contrast, you know, of all of this, of having like a really structured, you know, upbringing, really like established, you know, there was a lot of sense of security there because of the longevity of the family, you know, and the size and the impact that they had in the community and everything.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then contrast with the magic of the place, you know, with you know, we invented thong bikinis, you know what I mean?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: That is just like and all of that with magic and soccer and passion and carnival, you know, is just that place where it creates that energy.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a reason or something to be celebrating, you know.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So let's make a holiday and take three days off, you know, any reason to have a party, you know.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, that's funny, it just reminded me of something.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: There used to be uh uh uh ad, like a TV ad, I think it was for carnival cruises or something.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And one of their slogans, you know, to advertise the fun of the cruise was party like a Brazilian.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, well, there you go, it's undeniable now.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's kind of the impression I have of Brazil, that it's just like you know, lots of like movement and people moving their bodies to music and lots of food and spice and colors, and yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just in my imagination.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of feel like um part of my understanding of what Brazil was comes from the cartoon The Three Caballeros.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there you go.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: You said even in Brazil?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it is right.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: They have Carmen Miranda in there too.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're putting yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so funny.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so you left rather early, and it sounds like who would want to leave?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you had a beautiful woman.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Too distracting.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't get anything done.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I always say.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: People was like, what are you doing here?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: They, you know, I was like, oh man, no, I had to I have things to do, I had to come to America.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so did you come straight to America or what?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, actually, when I was 18 years old, um, I was uh one of the top male models in Brazil.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I got uh a chance to an opportunity to go to Japan, and I lived in Tokyo for about six months doing supermodel things from fashion shows to magazines to editorials to TV commercials and all of these things that you know somebody like that would do.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it came also from doing that in Brazil for a few years up to that point.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I took off, went to Japan, you know, and had a chance to like just be free and out in the world, you know, and just uh like after a while, I like had a mountain bike and I would ride my bike to appointments and castings and stuff, and wasn't really too worried about looking proper, you know, and my you know, uh whatever blue steel look, you know, I was just riding my bike and showing up, you know, because at that point I was a little disillusioned with the the um the emptiness of that life, you know, I was a little disillusioned with the with the just the superfluousness of everything, of like how everything was just would change, you know, and at one month you're in a cover of the magazine, you know, and everybody is like all over everything, and you're getting booked of stuff, and then true story, the next month, you know, you all of a sudden you're walking on a sidewalk and you see it on the ground, it's part of litter now, it's garbage in Brazil, it's kind of dirty sometimes, or it used to be then.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw myself like right there on the gutter.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, man, and they accumulated, you know.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time that I left Japan, I was done.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was just like, it has to be more to life than just to be able to smile, you know, and get paid all these numbers with zeros in the back of it to like whatever, you know.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted more, I wanted different, you know, so I quit.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was people thought I was crazy.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that you're not going back again next year?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: What about Europe?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I'm out, you know.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I went into um video editing and you started my art career at that point.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because up until then I have never like really drawn anything, or you know, I might have created different things.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would create things that would like normally uh uh burn my house.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like the guy yelled several times for creating inventions and lamps that the wires were touching, and all of a sudden my mattress was on fire, and my dad is just creaming my name from downstairs again, is the house.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like so.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's actually it seems like a pretty young age to disengage from an empty pursuit.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, it feels like that should have taken you many years to accomplish.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering what is it about you that um that you could exhibit that kind of depth at that young age?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Had you always been sort of introspective like that?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I was because I had the feeling of not belonging, you know, and I always was looking for the answer, why?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why is it that I don't like soccer, you know, or football in Brazil?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And coming from my family, that was a really big deal.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my great-grandfather was the the guy that made Brazil what it was as a soccer team in the 60s and 70s.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there is a soccer stadium right now in Sao Paulo with his name on it, and I didn't like soccer, you know.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always questioning all these different things.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that why was I born here?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't even know if I belong in this country.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, I would say I'm a citizen of the world because I would, you know, just merge in and out of cultures and stuff with I lived in Japan and I go from Ohio to Orlando to Salt Lake City, and now I mean Flagstaff is like anything and everything is possible, you know.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So did did that sort of um citizen of the world, that sense of not belonging, um, did that create any sort of difficulty for you?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it could go either way.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It could be like you felt free, or I know a lot of people with that experience actually feel alienated.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: What was it for you?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was both, depending on the time, depending on the circumstances, you know, depending on the circle of depending which life I was living then, you know, like because you know, we live many lives through life.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was uh, even though I was exploring, you know, I have the feeling that I'm always on vacation.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm traveling right now because I'm not from here originally, you know, so it doesn't matter how long you live in the place, you're just always from somewhere else.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um the feeling of excitement of being in this journey, always being there, you know, with the with this hunger for more, of this thirst for knowledge and movement and being able to, you know, as life shifts and changes, and I find myself in different places in different wearing different suits and different hats in different cities, you know, I'm okay with adapting to it because it's not permanent anyway.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: It has never been permanent, you know, and then on the other side of it, there is like that thing of like, man, is it that where do my roots belong?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or where is it that I can plant some kind of feeling of I belong here?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I am from, you know, there's like a connection into, you know, I mean, I remember many times being like in you know, Christmas parties with friends and everybody's doing the white elephant partying thing and stuff, whatever.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And now like sneak out, go outside and look at everybody through the window, you know, and admire from like a I don't know, like a sociology, sociological point of view, of like studying these humans and their interactions and how is it that they got here and you know, from their high school experience, everything, you know, and just still not really feeling that that connection, you know, of that belonging, you know.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I can totally relate to that.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can I can just see myself at parties in high school and college, like back in the corner smoking a cigarette like a beatneck, you know, just like observing and having like this really angsty uh view of what was happening around me.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like that was the only way I knew how to operate.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just that's just the way I was, but that's funny.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you landed in the US, and where did you land and what did you do when you got here?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I landed in Columbus, Ohio, straight out of Sao Paulo, on the way from Tokyo.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up in Columbus.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, and Columbus was awesome.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was at that time I was working uh in computer graphics, doing designs and stuff like that for television production back in Brazil, part of my family's things.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um I had an opportunity to go, like, hey, you're doing really good, go learn some more tricks.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, all right, let's go check it out, what's in the US, you know.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time I was dating someone that was going on to Ohio State University, and one thing led to another.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I find myself in the cornfields of Ohio taking uh classes for graduate students as an audit.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: However, that ended up that um turned out to I turned friendships out of that experience.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I had, you know, now other places that I could go and learn from, other teachers they would let me go into their classes and learn from and so on.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then one day I was driving around Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio, and I made a wrong turn behind the uh science center.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I found Columbus College of Art and Design, the sculpturing photography studios.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, hmm, what's this place?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh up to that point, I had never picked up a brush or painted anything or drawn anything or didn't even know what a portfolio was.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I went there the next day and I was like, hey, what do you guys do here?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I saw it as a way for me to stay, you know, in the US.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I go to college, you know, this is gonna be great.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um they told me what they did there, and I was interested.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, I don't do any of these things, but let's give it a go.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, okay, we need a portfolio and a steal life, and da-da-da.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked what that was.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So she just brought me a portfolio from another student.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, two weeks later, I show up with a bunch of drawings and things, like from coffee mugs to candlesticks and nails, and you know, whatever it is that I was, I thought that that's what it was.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, to this day I'm not really sure if they really accepted me for my talents, or they just knew that I could pay the tuition, you know.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, yeah, come on in, you know, you see if because it had like such a uh over 50% dropout rate on the freshman year alone because it was such a strict hardcore school.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they figured, well, if this guy fails, we'll make some money anyway.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So three and a half years later, I moved to Florida um to go after computer graphics again.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: However, one thing again led to another, and I found myself in a six screen shop coming up with my first line of apparel designs and fashion things and t-shirt designs and so on.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been doing that ever since.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So almost 30 years or so of being in the, you know, doing laundry, basically.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I think about it is just like, you know, um folding shirts and orders and hundreds and sometimes thousands of them and stuff.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're going like, how many of these uh laundry loads have I done?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anyway, different story.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: But so what was your life like in Orlando?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: What was that like for you?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Orlando was fun because it was young, it was in the 90s.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was there was no evidence of anything, you know, there was no Facebook, there was no whatever.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just like we had a really fun time experiencing life, you know, being in my 20s during those I lived there for 17 years, you know, and being in that place where you're immortal, being in that place where everything is possible and anything goes, you know.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had um a group of artists that we all work together, we're called the Illuminati, related or not, it's for you to find out, you know.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, if you look up Zone Power in the Illuminati, go Google it and dive down that rabbit hole for a minute.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, all those things are unrelated, any kinds of pure coincidence.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: They had to put a disclaimer there in case something happens.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, it was super fun, you know.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was super fun.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: We created, we painted.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I created further into graphic design, developed, and we had uh design company with two of my best friends to date.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: We worked together and then we'd live together years later.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a very dynamic place and was a really fun party place.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I um towards the end of it became a little bit of a toxic place because it was everything was so available and fun, and I was definitely in a place in my life that that was my focus of escapeism instead of growing and you know, accepting and and evolving ism.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, Orlando was phenomenal for what it was, and I have best friends and brothers and sisters and people that I absolutely love, like family that were still in touch, you know.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So can you dive into that place where you went toward the end of your stay there?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: The um, you know, kind of the shadow aspect of that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um one time I said this in front of about about like 3,000 people.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a really, really dark time towards the end.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was um after my second divorce, you know, I was brokenhearted and frustrated and angry at the world.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I thought that everybody owed me something.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that I was out there to, I needed to go and get it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I needed to get out there and like just make a mark no matter what.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and because That uh though it was a period of almost like five years that I just made my the darkness or the partying and the drugs and everything, it was my full-time job.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a designer, I'm an artist, so I created everything for all the bars in different places.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there was no I no problem with consuming things seven days a week because tabs were always open.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And four o'clock in the morning at any given day, people would be naked walking around the house and swimming, and it was just out of control.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was just that moment that after the novelty of it wears out, you know, after when things start to hurt a little bit more, when people around you starting to fade or die or hurt, and you start seeing like the that that vicious cycle, you know, that exists in that darkness, self-fulfilling vicious cycle of environment.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I need it out, you know.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't breathe anymore.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't matter.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that it didn't matter how hard I tried, tried, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Not really doing it, um, to escape it or to do better or to break out of habits or to find new friends and stuff.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one way or another, I always find myself, found myself back at the same dive bars, at the same people's houses, at the same whatever places that my mama wouldn't approve it.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, something's gotta change.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Something's gotta, and if for things to change, I gotta change.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I packed up everything and headed out of town.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: So was that sort of abrupt departure from your life successful for you?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times, you know, you take your problems with you.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I'm curious whether your indulgence in those types of down that down that road was a result of problems that you had within, or whether it was you got caught up in a lifestyle that was going nowhere.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, both.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: The lifestyle definitely caught in sure because it's fun, it's attractive, and is non-consequential in any way.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So do it again.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, the feel behind all of those things, you know, the search on the end of every line on the bottom of every bottle of all of those at the end of every joint and everything, and between every woman's legs, even, you know, the search of that it was coming from an idea that I thought that I needed an external fulfillment to be able to make me feel whole.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I research endlessly for that fulfillment and was never there, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're not even, you know, maybe you can fool yourself that it lasted for as long as that bliss lasts, but it doesn't because then you just go right after again of like, oh more.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: This it again, you know, this is it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I felt it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's hold on, not there anymore.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so the cycle begins again, the same list of demands that your brain keeps giving you, just this perceived fulfillment idea, you know.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was all both of those things, you know.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that was the reason why I had to leave, because I understood that what I was what was happening around me was a consequence of what was happening inside of me.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I had plenty of evidence that it wasn't working.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Based on results, everywhere it wasn't working.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, what the hell are you gonna do, Zon?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because you're 30-nothing years old, and here you are with the whole life ahead of you, lived many lives behind you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's up?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's next?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then um in that search, the first stop that I made on this journey that I'm in was the church.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was like, well, let's go figure out if God and JC got some some some answers for me, you know, and it was amazing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was the perfect everything always I you know I understand that happens always for a reason.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't regret it at all.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was connected with the the the pastors, you know, they were personal trainers also.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there was another physical part of me that I was getting fulfilled with the spiritual part of it, being supported always with the same, you know, people in interactions.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was in church three days a week, you know, I was leading like some of the talks as as uh testimonials at the end, you know.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: We did a uh weekend getaway thing, like just men's, you know, like to really get to know the word and get dive in into loving Jesus.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I got baptized in the hotel pool.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't even wait to get to Sunday at the church.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, so I dive in, you know, I am searching, I'm committed, I am just totally surrendered all in all of it for the chance of this experience maybe being the answer, you know.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, because if I don't give my all, how would I know?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I don't know in my heart that I did pour all of it, I open every door and window of everything to let that light in, then you know it's not a a true decision.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, we started with this with a church that lasted a few a few months, you know, like maybe six, eight months or so.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was a ceiling, you know, there was a belief ceiling, there was a place that they would only go so far into their exploration of the why, you know, the why things are the way that they are.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that why?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Every all the all the questions, you know.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh by that time that movie The Secret came out, and it was very interesting, and it was very like intriguing to me to hear all of those other concepts there were that are you know in alignment with things that I believed in all along the way, those little breadcrumbs that life you know throws and leaves along the way for you to all of a sudden look back, like, huh?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see how this all connects, you know.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um went on into personal development, you know, with the with with with the with the side of spirituality.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if it was a meal, you ordered the one with the side of spirituality, just because I knew that there was a mysticism here, there is like a magic here, you know, from maybe from my upbringing from Brazil, maybe from just believing in it, maybe from past life beliefs, maybe because I do believe now more than ever.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's always been there.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I carried it along with me, even though the the religious dogma of the you know Catholic Church and stuff didn't really fit in.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's who else is out there?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who else has done great things and what would they have to say, you know, about whatever I'm going through?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so that's that's the that that path of that exploration, that's where it went.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about how your what you were going through was reflected in your work at the time?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, this is this arm was done at that time also.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a very different outlook on life, you know.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was very like jaded and angry.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, my art was also angry.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I remember people telling me, like, why don't you paint happy things?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I would answer, because the world is not a happy place, you know, and I'm here to show you.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And my things were just the themes were, you know, pretty scary, and the stuff that I was talking about, and the reason behind it all, the justification of the painting was also issues that were like, holy like abortion, you know, or babies that were like being used for for for experiments, you know, where babies that were born like from addictions, all those things.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was the question.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: That was like the the the probing that I was pushing out in the world, showing everybody like look how fucked up all this is, you know.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the outlook, and that was what I was fueling, you know, and that's what I was of course manifesting back in my life, you know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So as I was choosing to look into the darkness, the darkness kept looking back at me, so I kept looking back at it, and then we started creating together, you know.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was all of these things that I was just like fueling by this, you know, like this rage, kind of this energy, you know.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's that's interesting.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: That um did you recognize that you were in a cycle with the darkness at the time, or is it just that you thought that was me?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: There was no cycle, that was my beingness.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: My music was angry, you know, my tattoos were angry, my outlook on things were angry, you know, was all there to rape and pillage, you know, for the love of the hunt, you know, like Viking styles and the savage.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was not about balance and equality and and and growing and creating, it was about taking, you know, and the whole world was the everything that I was looking around, it was that, you know, that's all I saw, and the art and the stuff and whatever it was always tricksters, it was always treachery, it was always, you know, skulls.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are hundreds of skulls paintings out there for all different, you know, good and evil reasons of them.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was reflected everywhere because that's what I was focusing in, you know.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's all I saw.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, what were you angry about?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now I can look at it that it said that what I was angry about was not being clear.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what I was angry about is not believing that I could get everything that I was so frantically searching outside right here, you know, that I was there the all along the way, and I never needed to be chased.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't know that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know how to get to this place, you know, to this acceptance and love and tenderness and be able to even do that for and with others, because all that I knew there was like of this insane insensitive anger and this lust to the thrust and rush and come on, universe, you know what I mean?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I was all there to get it, and instead of being here to give and allow to be returned.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the paradigm shift, you know.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was the change.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big change.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big shift.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: How how did that come about?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um after a while of like looking at um a path of destruction behind you, you know, of broken hearts and broken lives and broken dreams and broken everything, you can look at it, and there's only one thing in common between all of those accidents you.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: The people changed, the circumstances changed, the zip codes changed.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: However, you kept fucking up, you know what I mean?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like if this is the common denominator, is myself, and I keep generating all the same results.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, you know, let's shift something, let's change something, you know, let's look at why is it that these things are happening this way?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the reason?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not it's not because of spirituality, you know, because the reason, well, maybe partially if you have you're here to believe into filling up your soul contract and things that we came here to overcome, you know.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason is that you're not present about what you truly want.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it'll never give you the space to understand what you truly want or even who you are, you know.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then because of that, people get angry about it, kick the dog, they cut somebody off in traffic, you know, all this outward anger because you're not getting outward input.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was the shift, you know, was the understanding that I was the one fucking up.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't anybody else.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm sick of it.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So was did what are the changes that you put into place?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of like, was it kind of like a quick thing, or did it take a while to unwind all of the patterns that you had?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been doing this now since 2008, you know, and I have a haas ever since day, ever since then, every day almost.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of things that uh, you know, like you read a book for the second or third time, you get different things out of it.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: You watch a movie repeatedly, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, never saw that, you know, or did I always say this thing?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because it hits you differently every time.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's been a process.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: However, the it the ability to switch, you know, the ability to go into a new place is always been there, you know, because of my like willingness to release, you know, my willingness to like trust, my willingness to be open to this being a solution or for now working finally, or for me feeling good, you know.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: So all of this falling forward, you know, that I've always done, it's I believe it served me because I'm always half full.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm like, okay, it hurt.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm broke, okay.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's left.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all of the businesses, all of these things that could be, you know, anchors, and now you're choosing to drag along with yourself.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't look at that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at it the other way.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, okay, well, here we go again.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, opportunity, let's go.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: What have I learned?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, the the the tricky part of life, you know, is that we can't never use the the lessons that we've learned until they're over, you know, and then that's when you learn, it's like, ah, fuck, it's over now.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's no do over.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Try better next time, you know.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: How about that?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I never thought of it that way, but that is it does kind of propel you forward because you can't fix what's occurred.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so you all you can do is attempt to do better in the future or in the present, whatever.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's really if you're conscious about it, if you know that the problem or the reason, whatever, it came from maybe a part of it, a responsibility that you had in the situation, you know.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you go into the situation again and you're creating the same result and you're pointing the same finger and is never at the mirror, you know what I mean?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, how has your work changed through this journey?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lot.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: It has totally changed, it's been like a 180 and continues to push that 180, you know, needle further and further.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to now to create and empower people to feel, you know, for empower people to dream, to empower people to like think of things as being possible, you know, instead of always being negative, instead of always being a no.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, life is not a big no.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter how many times we've heard that before we were seven years old and killed 75 or 80 of our creativity because we said no too many times to our kids or heard no too many times for our parents.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I wanted to break that.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: My art now, the idea is to bring you back into that place where you can shift into being your best self, judged and empowered only by you a hundred percent.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I wanted to do.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to trigger people into feeling something, into believing in something, maybe not initially, like immediately, but eventually triggered drops, seeds growing, and all of these things that they can start seeing the possibilities now, you know, of a sunrise, the beauty now of a sunset, you know, to stop and to be and to feel and to just really enjoy all the blessings and the magnitude of this abundance of life and joy that it is all around us, you know, and then if we choose to look at it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really struck by the fact that your life throughout your life, you've been really rebellious.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the rebellion, like even what you're doing now, what you're talking about, is also rebellious because you know, here you are, you come from this dark place, and people are surprised to hear what you have to say, you know, and and it's it's kind of funny that you've been rebellious in all these different phases in different ways.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty pretty cool.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what are you doing?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: How are you empowering people in addition to creating the works?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: What else are you doing?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I figured that exposure is everything, you know, like to be able to get my message out.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta let people hear about it.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I do is I go live on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube starting out now, um, almost every day.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Almost every day.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do it every day.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's hundreds of videos out there, you can see it from being there every day, but sometimes it's not every day.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I allow myself to not do that every day.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just our drop.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I come in there and I will go and it's quick, it's easy on on Instagram and Facebook.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're about you know between five to 15 minutes long.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sometimes, or every time I have a painting that I wanted to create a thought about it, you know, I wanted to bring a trigger into my audience for them to maybe have a chance to see this in a different way.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a combination of like part lecture, part art talk, part madness, you know, with a lot of music and dancing and all of the true stories, these things are all there.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here in this space, and I just allow myself to create.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, and funny, yesterday I was at the grocery store and with a mask on, unfortunately, and this guy comes up to me, he's like, hey man, what's up?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I really like your artwork.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, thanks, appreciate it, bro.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Yeah, yeah, I'm so in soul's uncle, and uh, no idea.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, awesome, you know, so yeah, so good.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's really what I love about what you're doing is that you're you're um you're really showing people how the connection between self-exploration and self-expression, because it's like to me, they're they're like equally important um because the self-reflection, the self-understanding necessarily has to be expressed in some way.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you get to choose how that is, and whether it's you know baking muffins for your neighbor or tending to the lives of your children or caring for your home or creating art or forming a business, like all of it doesn't matter what the expression is, but this this connection is what creates the liveliness inside of the effort.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't think that a lot of people really think of it that way because they think self-expression is about art or about writing or about you know something like that.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you talk a little bit about that, about that connection and how you found it and how you how you live it?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, there it needs to be a valuable reason for me to spend time doing anything, you know.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: So at least that's how I like to think about things.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I waste time doing Instagramming, for example, and that's not what I mean.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: However, if I'm going to spend, you know, if I'm going to create, if I'm going to spend, you know, however many amount of hours that will take to create a piece like this heart behind me, I don't know, have easily over 15 to 20 hours in between, so far into it.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, it's not even close to being done.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if I'm going to spend that much time and effort and resources and brain power and and and introspection creating something, it needs to mean something to me.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to have a reason that is so big, that is so meaningful that I will I am making a commitment to it for the period of time that it takes, however long that is, you know.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with that guy over there.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that guy over there, you know.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: So what is the exchange?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is it, the trade-off?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that I'm gaining from creating, you know, and what does it mean to create it, you know?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that that's my comparison with that versus like graphic design, you know, my other life.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's a quick thing, you know, that's working out like the creative muscle and outputting things out without really like any substance.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they look good, they do their job, there's this commercial work, la-da-da-da-da.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You just pump it out.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's different when you have to put love and not that you don't hear in design, but the relationship, it's different.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is like making love versus masturbating, you know, it's like a quick, easy slam bam, thank you, ma'am, you know, versus like it's been a week and we got lost in time and space and food and everything, you know.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that difference.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: So who wouldn't be giving this child?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Opportunities, you know, choose the greater one, the one at least that fulfills me more.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's what this whole thing that I wanted like to empower people to do it.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And now I want to like to show them how is it that they can create it themselves, you know, because the the what the bridge that I'm trying to illustrate here, the attempt that the ill of connection is that, yes, self-expression, it is needed in order for happiness and joy, you know, regardless of the vehicle of the self-expression, is it's it's irrelevant because as long as it fulfills your soul, as long as it gives you a sense of belonging to your heart, to yourself, you know, you're you're living your purpose, then by all means, you know, and if I can empower anyone to do that by teaching them how to paint, to show them, to make them paintings for them, to tell them about how is it that I create, where does it come from?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they're like, oh, I think the same thing too, or man, that guy's freaking out there.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my things are a lot simpler.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I should definitely paint because you know, so that's the that's the drive, that's the the the the motivation here is like, how is it that I can connect with you?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: How is it that my art, you know, and they're all themed around mental health or or or issues that we deal with as people, like insecurity or fears, or you know, I'm not capable of, or all of these limiting thoughts, you know, that were created or put in our mind by by a lifetime of belief systems reinforcing it.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: How is it that I can create something that maybe when you look at it, it stops you?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe when you look at it because you heard the lecture behind it, or you know the meaning of the art, it stops you and have a chance to check in with yourself and be like, which one am I being right now?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, of this duality of this piece, because they all have a dark and a light side, you know, and you can see my rings reflect that same thing, the dark and the light side.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: I need to have a balance between those things, you know, so I can create between them.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it affects all of them, you know.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can create that space for you, that just that slight second, then maybe you have a chance to be present with yourself and check in and ask the question Am I being my best self right now?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is where I am right now in alignment with who I want to be?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is what I'm doing right now in alignment with my goals?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I can create that one split second in your minds just from looking at something and looking at a painting, looking at it in your phone, and then you have the chance to make a different choice, and then my job is done.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you ever buy the painting because what I'm here to do is to impact.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you can take a talisman home with you, if you want to hang it in your wall, if it really resonates, and you by all means take it, you know.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the mission behind it now, the purpose behind it now.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is to make a difference, to make a positive impact in people's lives, and you know, show them that you can do all of this really serious work, freaking being a total nut, you know, dancing, painting in a gigantic warehouse that used to be a fire station in 7,000 feet in altitude.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Why not wearing a feathery vest that I found in the girls' section at the thrift store?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Life was meant to be awesome, and all possibilities are open.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that's really occurring to me as you're speaking is that, you know, I think that the search for a meaningful life is common to the human condition, but somewhere along the line, we thought that it was something that needed to be pursued outside of ourselves, that there was some life waiting for us to step into it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the opposite is actually true.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the start of a meaningful, of a purposeful life is within, is going in to see who you are, what lights you up, what terrifies you, what excites you, all that.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then as you discover who you are, the life that you want creates itself right in front of you.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, absolutely.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, the my experience with that was that I didn't have the belief system, or I didn't have the the self-love.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't love myself enough to believe that the things that I wanted were possible, not just possible, like as in a tangible way, but possible for me to live that, for possible for me to feel that way.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there was a very big block there that a lifetime of conditioning, you know, that creates belief systems.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Then all of a sudden you have supporting belief systems supporting that main belief systems, and is this ramification, this giant tree of you know, lies that were created by your perception as a child of somebody else, as your limited understanding of what life was and language was, and maybe your parents was having a bad day and they said something that they should have, shouldn't have, or maybe whatever it was, there's a lack in communication or something like that, they created that belief system that you spend a whole freaking lifetime reinforcing it.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let's break that, you know, and it's so hard, you know, because the first thing that happened at least with me is that I didn't have any boundaries, you know, with myself because I felt that since the the fulfillment is coming from the world outside of me, I must fulfill everything also, you know.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let me help everyone, let me fix everything, let me do everything, let me take off the burden, let me all of these things if you're thinking that you know, by the law of the universe, I'll get it in return.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got the same problems in return.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that that's the part is not specific about all this law of attraction stuff.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's not about what pro you know, what you projecting, you'll get it back.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there I was projecting lack, and I got lack back.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as I start, you know, looking the other way, less looking inward, looking at my me being the common denominator and going seeing, like, you know, when people tell me, Why don't you just take some time for yourself?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what is that?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you mean?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't know what that was, and now I love all the time that I have by myself almost.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is it that allows you to move between these places?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is the confidence that you have that and the belief that you have that this is worth it, you know, that you are worthy to writing a book and being alone for the whole time that it takes to do it, or creating paintings all day long and living in the same place where the paintings are, because this is the belief.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: And why shouldn't you embrace it?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I believe that is in our heart for a reason, it's being put there for a reason, you know, and for us like to dishonor or for us to like ignore that reason is just ignoring any and every other blessing and gratitude and abundance and everything else that comes with it.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there is no gray area here.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: You either do or you don't.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do, stay doing it.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes when I hear you talk, I feel like I'm at a modern day revival.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, yeah.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, get your hands up.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So before we move on to the lightning round, I want to ask you one more question.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would love for you to talk a little bit about the project that you have upcoming with the Absinthe Gallery in New York City.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the Boundary Shield Project.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, recently, and as I've been developing all these new collections, all this new art, um, something popped up in between them.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a boundary shield.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I developed a whole project around that.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the intention here is to, in order for you to have the space to be able to be with yourself, to be with your dreams, your desires, all of your visions, you know, you first you must first create a boundary.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: That way, whenever you are in that place, it is free, it's not interrupted, it's not conditional, it's not nothing, it is just your space.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I developed this thing that's called the boundary shield, right?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the boundary here is one of them.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Here's, and you can see it's eight by ten.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: This one is being shipped, this one is also another one.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's been dozens of them made.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea is that you can tell me what it is that you're overcoming, what it is that you want to create a boundary against, you know, maybe it's inequality, hate, um uh scarcity, whatever negative things that you're trying to overcome, right?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're gonna tell me what it is that you want to put in your shield that is going to protect you against all these things that you're you know creating space from, overcoming from.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then the shape that you the the the shape that you see your shield being and the colors that you like the most, and I go to town and I make one for you.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that is being very interesting, and it's being awesome to connect with people and be able to create that for them.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm working with this gallery called Absinthe Gallery with a Y.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Look them up on um Instagram.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then we come up with this workshop idea that I'm going to teach people how to make their own shields.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so now I'm empowering someone even more to take action towards their future, towards their goal.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: There is not an obstacle now of like, oh, I gotta, I meant to go buy the shield from Zon yesterday, but oh, my day is some crazy.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's no excuses.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can come and you can make your own.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so that's part of this vision, part of this project, part of these ideas is that how is it that we can empower everyone or as many people as possible?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then how is it that we can teach them to empower themselves?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like maybe this first shield that they're going to learn how to create, you know, and we're gonna there's like a whole um syllabus involved in this process, it's gonna be about two hours long.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty awesome.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: The link will be posted later.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe this thing will be the first time that they will be able to chance to be in this space, to create this boundary and be creating, you know.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: So this is it, it's just that little seed, it's just that little drop.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: So let's keep feeding this collective in with all of these little hints of how is it that they can, we can, we all be empowered and help each other along the way.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just want to say that um this idea, this that the expression of a desire or um some kind of proposed outcome, uh, whether it's through painting or drawing, is so incredibly powerful.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to just give an example from my own life.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: I went to um on New Year's Day, I took a workshop, and it was all about you know creating the life that you want.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this was years ago.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um the I couldn't think of anything, they wanted us to make a painting, and it was supposed to be like what we desired for the future.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so focused on the fact that I was already doing this uh advanced yoga teacher training that I was like, well, I don't have any dreams because I'm doing this right now, but that didn't fit the project, so I had to make something up.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay, I I'm I want to start a yoga studio.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I painted a little painting of what that represented, how that was represented to me.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: And less than a year later, I was in the midst of opening a studio when I recalled that exercise, and I was like, holy shit, oh my god.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because what happened in the meantime is I found out that the only reason that I wasn't opening the studio is because I thought I had to have the proper certifications.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when I let go of that idea, everything just started coming toward me, like this amazing miracle of uh project.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it it started like the period of deep and wide fulfillment in my life.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I really we'll put the um you know the notes in the comments below, and hopefully people can take part in that um that workshop because I think it's it's gonna be really powerful.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm really, really excited about it.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you know, it's a uh is the first step, you know.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: I see it now like you know, as the progression of how things are going for me.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that that is the first step of a really awesome climb, you know, like one of the climbs that I'm going into.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel that getting this down and getting this right is just going to get the next one also because that's the idea, you know.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh here I am creating and doing all this stuff and everything, and there's triggers and there's empowerment and there's messages behind it, and there's everything, but this is just what I'm doing, right?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can join it by being part of it, by owning pieces of them, absolutely.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Go for it by all means.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: But how is it that if you did it yourself, you know, and it's like it doesn't have to be about painting, you know.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it is about being an accountant, there's no judgment, whatever it is, just jump in.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this would be a good time to switch over to our lightning round, okay?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right, all right, all right.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite childhood memory?
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, um being on the back of a pickup truck at my grandpa's farm, wearing a straw hat with no shirt on and laughing.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have a picture of it actually.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very special moment.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was after this picture for years, and I think my mom actually found it.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember that.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sweet.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the best childhood memories take place in summer, don't they?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so um, who would you like to change places with for a day and why?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, of course, Pablo Picasso.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would love to change places with him for a day because I wanted to know how he feels, you know, to be him or to be in that place that he was, because that's my goal.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he was the most prolific artist ever.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've read somewhere that he created over 50,000 pieces of art.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what we mere mortals have seen is less than 5,000 of them.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he sold less than 2,000 pieces.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I want to be in that place where everything is possible.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: When I have this gigantic mansion of a house where every room and living room and everything is just another workshop area, that this is the abstract area, this is the faces area, this is where we build things.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is, I want to feel that that you know magnitude of creation and reach, you know, into the world, just like he had, you know, but with what I have to say.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to go learn that being this.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's probably looking down on you and wishing he could be you birthday.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, number three, are you a morning person or night person?
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I am a person that most of the time I am a morning person.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I like to wake up super bright and early before the sun if possible.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: That way I wake up with the earth, you know.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: If I see the sun light up, most of the time I'm going like, ah, the day is happening and I'm late.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I gotta go.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um however, I enjoy nights as well.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I often love to get lost into all of a sudden realizing it's one, 2 a.m.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: and I've been painting and I'm covered in paint and I'm tired, and that is also so you know, if I could pick just one, it would be morning.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what moves you to tears?
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Anything I cry for any reason.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: You show me a freaking, you know, towel uh paper towel commercial where the puppy comes sliding around the corner and bounces into the front of the cabin and I'm freaking crying.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always like that?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I well, the first time that I remember crying, like for outside for uh at a movie, it was when I was watching E.T., you know, in a movie theater, back when all of a sudden the flower like comes back to life, you know, and they know that he's alive and the scientists don't know yet, they're gonna sneak him up.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was crying in the movie theater and I was going like, what is happening?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling these.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't control.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh another time that comes to memory, my ridiculous crying, uh, was watching Dirty Dancing, you know, when Patrick Swayze says that nobody puts baby on the corner.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, come here, you know, uh I felt so so good.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, that's right, man.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Stand by a girl.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but I mean, I can cry at any time, you know.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: If I allow my heart to open, if the song is right, the music is right, you know, I'm right, and everything's like, you know, I could be telling a story, and all of a sudden that story lights up my heart chords, my heart center.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, my goal is to be able to control it a little bit more so I don't take away from the other person's experience of the story, you know, with imposing an emotion, but you so hard, you know.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess you could say that you're that what moves you to tears is joy, which is like that's fantastic.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's the opposite for me.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: What moves me to tears is like the I can remember this, probably wasn't the first movie I cried in, but oh my gosh, the experience I had watching the elephant man.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I sobbed and sobbed and sobbed for hours after that movie because like that, like the the um, you know, like the brutality of humanity or the the the depth of the human experience, like the sorrow of it, that like that's what moves me to tears.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wish it could be more about joy, but joy makes me happy, it doesn't make me cry, so I guess that's good.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right, final question.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's the most interesting aspect of your life right now?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Most interesting aspect of my life right now, besides my hair.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um my god, I don't know.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: My life is so interesting.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just love living, you know.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many facets of it.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're fantastic.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the most interesting, amazing part of my life right now is a new relationship that I'm in, you know, that is giving me an opportunity to turn into or to explore a different side of my masculinity.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like it has never experienced that depth in a connection with a human ever.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the pinnacle of my life right now.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, you know, this woman has such a powerful being as of this muse-like energy, that this is one of the pieces, you know, created totally by internal combustion of excitement and creativity, you know.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and that's one of the things that empower me the most, you know, it's love, it's the ability to be able to transform this untangible feeling into something tangible, you know, into that I can actually touch it and feel it and look at it and see the colors and see the patterns and and feel the textures and associate all of that with real life, you know, not real life, 3D life, tangible life.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow, amazing.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, I am really interested in my powers of manifestation right now because they seem really potent.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I need to be like extremely mindful of what I am bringing forward because I feel like it's happening fast and immediately, like without question.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an exciting and it's an exciting time and it's a big responsibility.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're in alignment.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you know, that's fantastic.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Don Miguel Ruiz, you know, is one of my favorite writers.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to a lot of books because I don't have the attention spent to read them.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that, you know, he was talking about uh the other day was uh the ability to manifest, you know, and how is it that we are able to do that once we can let go of guilt, of fear, of shame and blame?
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because those are all the things that you know are are the filters, are the little blocks along the way that don't allow this full energy to like fly through into manifestation, you know.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: So accepting your darkness and surrendering at everything that is just what it was, there's no impact into who you are right now.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, did you bring a question for me today?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was thinking about it, and uh the one the one that came to mind is like, what do you think about speedoes?
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, you know, there's so much missed feelings about speedos out in the world.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to get your feedback on it because summer is coming, you know.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think they look great on Italian men for sure.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right, why Italian men?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why not speedoes?
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, they should be small and colorful, and colorful, yeah.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right, note it.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the um the poignant and probing question.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just want to thank you for joining us today.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your exuberance is infectious, and I hope that people enjoy all the things that you have to say, and that they check you out on Instagram or Facebook or YouTube because you're doing some amazing work in the world, and um I've I've really enjoyed watching you.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for coming.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I always like to close everything with reminding people that life was meant to be awesome, and our only job is just to show up accordingly.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: So go live your best life and believe that you can.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.