Latest / The Curve / RTC118: Scott Galloway's guide to getting rich.

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RTC118: Scott Galloway's guide to getting rich. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to Raising the Curth, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
• 0:05
  to be better with your money.
• 0:07
  And the wise words of Amy Schumer were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
• 0:11
  I don't really get the saying.
• 0:13
  It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
• 0:17
  You know, I'm like, I'm still not ready to eat.
• 0:19
  Are you on the script?
• 0:20
  It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
• 0:26
  need to be.
• 0:27
  OK, OK, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
• 0:31
  OK, the vegetables are just good for you.
• 0:33
  It's the brownie recipe.
• 0:34
  OK, we got there, we got there.
• 0:36
  OK, OK, well, you've really got a finance mate.
• 0:38
  Yeah, one of us has to.
• 0:40
  This is true.
• 0:41
  OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager,
• 0:45
  where I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
• 0:48
  And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
• 0:50
  No, that's so not the joke, Vick.
• 0:53
  Oh, OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
• 0:56
  Because together, we really can raise the curve.
• 1:00
  Vick, you've done so much research for this episode.
• 1:03
  I have.
• 1:04
  Vick, message me the other day going, I've got a present for you.
• 1:06
  And I was like, oh, my god.
• 1:09
  She was like, don't get too excited.
• 1:10
  It was a finance book.
• 1:11
  I was like, it was OK.
• 1:13
  Nafrogly, it's irakin.
• 1:16
  Once you start reading it, you'll be like, wow, this is actually quite good content.
• 1:21
  I can't you talk.
• 1:22
  I'm not at all now.
• 1:25
  Just eating an apple, sorry, everyone.
• 1:27
  The author is called Scott Galloway.
• 1:29
  I've read so many of his books.
• 1:31
  He's done some great books.
• 1:32
  And a friend of mine was like, hey, he's speaking in London.
• 1:35
  Do you want to come along?
• 1:36
  I said, you don't have to ask me twice.
• 1:38
  I was there, front row, opinion paper, trying to get a signature afterwards.
• 1:42
  Did you actually?
• 1:43
  Yeah.
• 1:43
  And I spoke to him.
• 1:44
  I was like, we've got a podcast.
• 1:45
  I was like, fan-girling at big time.
• 1:47
  Kind of like the expert, you know?
• 1:49
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:50
  And I was like, oh, the poor guy.
• 1:52
  You could just tell he was doing what he had to do in terms of being polite.
• 1:56
  And what did you do?
• 1:57
  How did you try and sell the podcast?
• 2:01
  I was like, we've got a podcast.
• 2:02
  And everything that you said at this talk,
• 2:04
  resonated, like we say exactly the same things about the conversation about money
• 2:07
  and how important it is.
• 2:08
  We were like, I was like, we kind of like to think of ourselves as a call her daddy of finance.
• 2:12
  And he lost it.
• 2:13
  He laughed.
• 2:14
  I was like, I can't go in there and just be like, I'm a big fan.
• 2:16
  Can I get your signature?
• 2:17
  He's not going to remember me.
• 2:18
  So are we known?
• 2:18
  I think it's quite bold actually.
• 2:20
  And I'm wondering if we should change our buy-up.
• 2:22
  Yeah, I was like, we're the call her daddy of finance.
• 2:23
  And he laughed and loved it.
• 2:25
  And then, do you think when he's talking about penises more to be able to claim that?
• 2:28
  I feel like she gets into sex, Chad a lot.
• 2:30
  I think she started like that.
• 2:32
  I mean, we just did a sex talks podcast.
• 2:34
  True, true.
• 2:35
  Oh, my God.
• 2:36
  We are the call her daddy.
• 2:37
  Okay, fine.
• 2:38
  Yes, anyway.
• 2:39
  And then afterwards, I emailed him asking because he said, I asked him, would you be interested
• 2:44
  in being on our podcast?
• 2:45
  And he was like,
• 2:46
  admittedly, he's not, he's not our target demographic.
• 2:48
  He's a 60-year-old white male, but he was funny.
• 2:51
  He didn't beat around the bush, which a lot of people sometimes do when they talk about
• 2:55
  money and finance is like, you know, they just don't give it to you straight.
• 2:59
  He gave it to us straight.
• 3:00
  Anyway.
• 3:01
  I emailed him, kind of like what you did with Elizabeth Day.
• 3:04
  And I said, hey, the title was call her daddy of finance.
• 3:08
  Nice.
• 3:09
  Yeah.
• 3:10
  I still haven't had a response.
• 3:11
  Oh, yeah.
• 3:12
  That's all right.
• 3:13
  You know?
• 3:14
  It's okay.
• 3:15
  So anyway, this episode is kind of going to be touching on a few things that he mentioned
• 3:20
  in that event.
• 3:21
  And just a few things that resonated with me, and I really want to get your thoughts on
• 3:24
  and just the way he articulated things, I was like, wow, that's so true.
• 3:30
  So anyway, he is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern Business School.
• 3:35
  He's an entrepreneur.
• 3:36
  He's an author podcast.
• 3:37
  He's got his own podcast, hence why, you know, similarities, trying to gel on podcast
• 3:42
  chat.
• 3:43
  And he's just like, what Mike's do you use?
• 3:46
  I should have.
• 3:47
  We use road, roadcaster pearls.
• 3:49
  Do you reverse?
• 3:50
  I.
• 3:51
  I said to him, I said, I've got a podcast, and he goes, oh, podcasting's so hard.
• 3:55
  And I wanted to be like, real big dick energy, and be like, no, it's not really because
• 3:59
  my car should have, like, really just hold me out and be like, I should have.
• 4:02
  So if you can help.
• 4:03
  Yeah, yeah.
• 4:04
  You should get you some great sponsorships.
• 4:05
  So you can edit the podcast.
• 4:06
  I should have actually.
• 4:07
  It should have.
• 4:08
  That would have been, you should.
• 4:09
  That's a good opportunity.
• 4:10
  I know.
• 4:11
  You know, that's like networking one and one.
• 4:12
  I scratch your back.
• 4:13
  You scratch your back.
• 4:14
  Yes, I know.
• 4:15
  So yes.
• 4:16
  Anyway, he's released a new book called The Algebra of Wealth, a simple formula for success.
• 4:20
  Not the best title, but someone could have helped him in the creative department.
• 4:26
  But let's just stick to the last bit, a simple formula for success, you know, it's quite
• 4:30
  good.
• 4:31
  So anyway, he started out by saying, and I want to put this to you, so, like, how many
• 4:35
  people do you know that are rich?
• 4:37
  Define rich.
• 4:38
  That's the question.
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  Like rich is, he puts it that when it's when you're burn, right?
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  So what you spend is less than your passive income, impassive, not what you're earning
• 4:51
  every day from your salary, because when you retire, you don't have that.
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  So it's like, and he used this really asset.
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  So is it basically like if I'm spending $2,000 a week, if I'm getting more than that
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  from my asset, so not my income as in my, my salary?
• 5:07
  Yes.
• 5:08
  Yeah.
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  Well, you're like economics, economically secure, you're rich, like all of that.
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  So he's like, I know people that earn $5 million a year, and he told us a story about
• 5:18
  his friend.
• 5:19
  He owns $5 million a year, but he literally spends that much because he's got a house in
• 5:21
  the hampers, he's got kids, he's got chefs, he's got all of this, and it's this whole
• 5:26
  lifestyle creep that yes, you can earn more, but if you're burn, right, well, what you
• 5:30
  are spending also increases, then you're not considered to be rich because you don't
• 5:35
  have that wealth.
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  And then he talked about his dad, who earns like $52,000 a year, and he only spends $48,000,
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  so he actually is a lot more rich, but he earns way less, you know, so it's like defining
• 5:49
  what this like rich is, which is quite interesting, the idea of defining rich, this is actually
• 5:54
  something I've wanted to talk to you about for ages, is what is your definition of financial
• 6:02
  success, and what for you is your goal or your enough, because I think, and just hear
• 6:08
  me out, because this is something I've thought about lately, is the idea that it's the human
• 6:14
  condition to want more, it's a part of being in a capitalist, fast-paced, technology-driven
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  society to always be striving for more, but if you can put in place almost like your
• 6:29
  enoughness or your goal of what is rich or wealthy or whatever that looks like to you,
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  and really set that and stick with it, I think that, I don't know, I feel like in a way that
• 6:40
  might stop the constant striving, because I think, you know, if you look at some other wealthiest
• 6:44
  people in the world, they probably still don't feel like they have enough, and I just, I don't
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  want to be one of those people who looks back at my life, and was always on the search for the
• 6:57
  next thing, rather than being really comfortable and happy with what I've got, and I think, unless
• 7:01
  you actively say to yourself, this is my ceiling, or this is my amount, or this is what I want
• 7:08
  to be happier, or live the kind of life I want, then I think it's this constant, never-enoughness.
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  Have you given yourself, like, I don't know, I mean, I know you've got your retirement,
• 7:20
  or you know, your 20-year holiday goal, but have you ever thought about that, like for you what
• 7:24
  that would look like? I think for me, I don't have a dollar figure, and that's probably something I
• 7:28
  should work on, and he actually spoke about this, he said it has always changed as though, like he
• 7:33
  got to like 10 million, and he was like, cool now, I'm going to 100 million. That's what I mean,
• 7:36
  that's exactly what I mean. But I think for me, it would be feeling financially
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  secured, it's not about the amount of money that I'm making, it's being financially secure,
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  so it is a case of being rich, so having being able to not work, but be living off my assets.
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  And that for me, not my tits, so it just winked me. Oh, God. No, my different kind of assets,
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  my financial assets, I think, because there is always going to be a point in our lives where
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  the music stops and we can't earn money. It might be that we want to go on holiday,
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  or we get significantly ill, or we retire, or there's going to be a point where we can no longer
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  earn, and we have to have something else to live off. And so the more that you can accumulate
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  that when you're younger, and build up those assets, the less scary the future seems.
• 8:33
  I know exactly what you mean, and I think for me, even just having an auto-payment
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  into my investments, is enough for me to feel like, okay, a little bit of a sigh of relief.
• 8:43
  That's just into my 20-year holiday fund, you know, and for me in New Zealand, that's Kiwi Saverne.
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  But I haven't sat down and thought, this is my dollar figure.
• 8:56
  Yeah, and I really do think, actually, maybe it's not necessarily just dollar figure,
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  but it's almost, if I think of all the assets, so say I own a house one day, and I have X amount
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  in my, you know, stop portfolio, in my savings, blah, blah, blah. What is that for me?
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  Because it is about knowing what enough is enough, and it's not a function of what you earn,
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  like economic security, or feeling financially secure, or free, or whatever you want to call it,
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  but it's a function of what you keep, and knowing how much is enough.
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  Do you say what you keep? Like what you don't, what you don't spend it?
• 9:33
  Yeah, what you induce, what you save, whatever. And then that second part of knowing how much is
• 9:38
  enough, is that nobody cares about how much stuff you have as you do. Do you know what I mean?
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  Like there's this whole thing, and he talked about, like, influences are just wealth porn.
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  And like influences, as in like Instagram, like social media, it's all wealth porn.
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  And it's like, you're looking at it going, oh my god, I want that, I want to be that, I want to
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  have that. It's so true. And you're getting addicted to this fascination.
• 10:03
  The most ironic thing about that is a lot of the time they've been given it for free.
• 10:07
  Yeah, you know, they don't actually have the thing.
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  Well, they might be dead up to their eyeballs, or they might be sitting in some fake private jet
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  taking a photo, which I cannot believe is a thing, that there's actually companies out there
• 10:18
  that sell our slots for influences to sit in their private jets, which, anyway, yeah, probably.
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  But yeah, so it's not all about making more money. It's about being financially secure,
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  and making sure, yeah, when the music stops, you can still live the life you want.
• 10:33
  So he also spoke around, but do you know that's quite scary for a lot of people who are employed,
• 10:39
  you know, or like people might be listening and hear that and think, well, shit,
• 10:43
  like I'm not putting any of my salary away. So if my salary was to stop, I definitely wouldn't
• 10:50
  have enough. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like if you're listening and you're
• 10:54
  thinking, oh no, like I'm not doing that. It's a good way to think about, you know,
• 11:01
  salaries aren't forever, your earning capacity isn't forever. And when that does stop,
• 11:07
  then what? Because you might be able to keep up with your lifestyle now. But if you're not putting
• 11:11
  any of that away for your future, or the way you want to live in 20, 30 years time. Yeah.
• 11:17
  And it's not trying to fix it now. This is a slow thing. Like economic security and like
• 11:22
  financial retakes, you don't get it overnight. Unless you're in here at a whole bunch of money,
• 11:26
  which some people might, and that's great. But like for 99% of us, we're going to have to work
• 11:32
  away at this slowly. And that might mean asking for a pay rise, so that you can invest more,
• 11:36
  and you can get that passive income quicker. Do you know what I mean? So therefore,
• 11:43
  you're investing into assets that can generate income for you down the track,
• 11:47
  rather than just living paycheck to paycheck, which I know is difficult. And I completely
• 11:52
  appreciate that that's all some people can deal with right now. But I think it's also just being
• 11:59
  aware of, yeah, if the music stop, how would I fund my lifestyle? And for me, like that was quite
• 12:06
  scary. I was like, oh my gosh, you've got like a huge mortgage. If we stopped paying ourselves
• 12:10
  at the curve, like, how would I get that? And then I was like, well, no, because I could sell my
• 12:14
  house, and I could live off that. So there is, but it is still a daunting thing to comprehend.
• 12:20
  I don't have a house to sell. But this is what you're saving and putting money away and investing
• 12:25
  it. So it's like, it's just a case of sitting down and looking at your incomeings and outgoing,
• 12:30
  and being like, what could I realistically know? Stress about. Is it $5 a week? Is it 10?
• 12:38
  Is it a hundred? Is it a thousand? It's different for everyone. But I honestly think just the
• 12:42
  mental load of knowing you're doing something so much better than doing nothing. And he talks about
• 12:49
  three key things in order to get that economic security or that financial freedom. And the
• 12:55
  first one is discipline, which is exactly what you're just talking about. You know, you do have to
• 12:59
  be disciplined if you want to achieve really amazing goals like that. You're not going to get it
• 13:04
  if you're spending money on clothes all the time. And she's just, she's wearing a new card
• 13:10
  again. She's like, no, no, no, but within reason, you know, but it's pretty good to be fair.
• 13:15
  I don't spend heaps of my own clothes, do I? No, no, I'm like waiting for you to read.
• 13:19
  No, definitely not. Because my parents think I'm really bad at it, but I really don't think I am.
• 13:23
  It's all about developing, I reckon, a savings muscle. You know, you've got to work at it.
• 13:28
  It's so yes. It's like, it's not just going to come naturally to a whole lot of people. Like,
• 13:32
  I find it difficult at times, but it's like the more you use it, the more powerful and strong it
• 13:38
  becomes and you see the benefits. It's like with a muscle when you start to see it and you're like,
• 13:43
  shit, yeah, look at that for my definition. But it's the same with savings or investing,
• 13:48
  because as soon as you see that, like, cumulative growth, whether it be muscle or the amount
• 13:53
  in your portfolio, whatever, that is motivating. And I think that was kind of for me, like the moment
• 13:59
  that I had that tax back, which is really kind of a cheat's way, you know, like if you're getting
• 14:03
  inheritance or you get a tax back, it's like, for me, that was the first time I had like a lump
• 14:07
  amount in my account. And I was like, oh my god. So all of a sudden, I was like, I want to protect
• 14:12
  this. And I want to do like make clever decisions to grow that. Like you kind of get it almost
• 14:17
  addicted to the outcome. And it does take time. But once you start seeing that, that's when it
• 14:23
  becomes super powerful, because that's all you want to put your money towards yourself. Oh my gosh.
• 14:26
  But he said that the greatest advantage that young people have is time. And it's so true. And it's
• 14:33
  something that I wish I could tell myself in my 20s is that like I had the most, the biggest
• 14:38
  lifestyle creep. I was earning like great salary. I was living in Sydney. I was used to
• 14:44
  so much. Yeah. And your wardrobe was. I had no one saying that I was just ahead. I could have
• 14:52
  saved a lot more in being in a much better financial position, not saying like that I'm not now,
• 14:56
  but I just do regret it some totally really. Oh my god. I don't know if I've mentioned this
• 15:02
  on the podcast, but I went to sell my dog bed. I went to sell me so as dog bed when I moved to
• 15:09
  London. And I was like, oh, I'm just going to go back through my emails and see what I paid for
• 15:16
  this. I paid over 600 Australian dollars for a freaking dog bed. Which one is this? Is this
• 15:24
  the the white looking one? Yeah, it is quite nice. Yeah. And my thinking was if it's going to be
• 15:30
  in my lounge, I want it to look nice for him. But in my head when I came to sell it now and I've
• 15:35
  had a significantly reduced salary, there is just no way in hell. If I spend that much money on
• 15:43
  a dog bed now, but back then it was like, it's fine, no worries. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
• 15:47
  I'm like, back if you had just made a few better decisions like that and not had that lifestyle
• 15:53
  creep, you would have been in a much better financial position. I actually saw someone speaking
• 15:58
  on social media about this yesterday. And she was talking about a moisturizer that she bought,
• 16:03
  like a really nice one. She was like, I love it, I love it. But now I can't go back to buying my
• 16:08
  $20 set of full moisturizer. It's like, it's much harder to go backwards. Totally. And when I say
• 16:14
  go backwards, it's like almost to downgrade, like you don't know. And that's why I remember when I was in
• 16:20
  places like Bali and I look at the standard of living and how they, you know, like no, like just
• 16:26
  concrete floors, like, you know, it's, it's really basic. But that's all they know and they're really
• 16:32
  happy. You know, it's, there's, I think this one of the happiest people in the world. Yeah. And
• 16:36
  it's just that idea of like, if you can keep your lifestyle within what you're comfortable,
• 16:42
  like if something's really uncomfortable, of course, you would like spend more. But like,
• 16:47
  what is the advantage of that? Do you need to go and buy the really expensive moisturizer just
• 16:52
  because you're earning more money? Probably not. Probably not. Yeah. And this is kind of the
• 16:58
  talk of like influences. It's like, it's a constant reminder of what, what you've achieved,
• 17:03
  what, but also what you haven't achieved. Do you know? You're always comparing yourself to others.
• 17:08
  And we need to just like remove those that, that like porn and that like shit that makes us feel
• 17:13
  less than really. And just be like, you've run on their own journey. But coming back to that point
• 17:18
  that I was just mentioning that the greatest advantage that young people have is time. It's like,
• 17:22
  if you were to give young people, if you were to told them to put $100 into a box and then in 30 years
• 17:27
  time, that turned into $2,000. How much? 2000. Into a box. Yeah. No, you put $100 into a box. Yeah.
• 17:35
  And in 30 years time, they opened that box and it's $2,000. Imagine you would be putting, you'd be
• 17:40
  putting way more than $100 in that box. You'd be putting $20,000 in that box and converting it
• 17:45
  into a million dollars. It's like a time capsule. It's like a time capsule. And it's like, that's
• 17:48
  exactly what compound interest is. It's a time capsule. I love that. So it's like, let's all put
• 17:54
  as much money as we can now into these boxes. So then when we open them in 30 years time,
• 18:00
  we can have economic security. We can have financial freedom. Yeah. And I think that's a great
• 18:06
  way to maybe teach young people about investing when 30 years is a long time. But it's just that
• 18:12
  concept of it. It's a different time capsule. It's like a 5 second genie that you rub and then
• 18:17
  it turns into $2,000. Yeah. Except you put it in the ground, but I add the stock market. Yeah.
• 18:23
  Yeah. So that's really cool. I love that. Yeah. I love that. I actually have decided I want to
• 18:27
  like try and tighten like my financial goals with my habits. So I'm going to try and get,
• 18:35
  I think I've told you this off-podcast. I'm going to try and find some kind of piggy bank.
• 18:41
  And I'm going to get a whole lot of pounds out and put them in a little thing. Every time I
• 18:46
  meditate in the morning or journal or yoga class, all the things that make me feel really good,
• 18:51
  I give myself money in there. And then at the end of the month, I'll deposit that into my investment.
• 18:55
  So it's kind of like a double whammy. I like that. Yeah. I just think I'm like a really,
• 19:00
  I such a dopamine searcher. You know, like I need the consistency and the like visual aid
• 19:06
  to help me do things. Yeah. And I think there's probably a lot of people listening who are like,
• 19:09
  yeah, no, I want to invest, but like I can't get into the habit or I can't ex-wise it.
• 19:13
  I think you kind of have to hack your own brain. It's like hacking your own emotional and brain.
• 19:18
  Like what's going to work for me? And like who knows? Maybe this won't work for me. But I'm going
• 19:22
  to try it because it's all an experiment, you know? Yeah. I've started putting money into
• 19:27
  not the stock market, but a manicure, pedicure account. Not fair. And more like a self-care fund.
• 19:32
  How much do you put it? I can spend it on a many petty facial video, but it's more like
• 19:36
  self-care. Yeah. And I put in, it's at 10 pounds every time I excise in the morning.
• 19:42
  That's so good. Yeah. But it's like, because I was like, you're really
• 19:47
  shit, that's a lot. But I need to incentivize it because if I don't excise in the morning,
• 19:51
  it just groans my whole day. And I get stung if I don't go to Pilates, I have to pay five pounds,
• 19:56
  whatever. But like, for me that gets a negative mindset, you know, it's like,
• 20:01
  I haven't gone rather than like a positive reframing and going, when you do go, you get to reward
• 20:05
  yourself. I love them. In multiple ways. Yeah. So it is like finding those little tricks that work
• 20:10
  for you. And yeah. That's such a good one. It was someone else that mentioned it to me.
• 20:14
  So why are you doing so many facials lately? Just like real fit and look good at things.
• 20:20
  When, when, when, when. Real one work. Yeah. So yeah, the first way to achieve economic
• 20:25
  security discipline and then the other thing that they mentioned was diversify. Now we've
• 20:28
  spoken about this, but he framed it in a really good way. It was like diversify as soon as you
• 20:33
  can. You know, don't stress yourself out, sitting there going, oh my goodness,
• 20:39
  Mary's invested in property and the stock market. I've only been in the stock market.
• 20:43
  That's my toothpaste. No, it's brush your teeth. No, I need to buy toothpaste. I keep forgetting.
• 20:49
  Oh, so it's like, once you've built up your emergency fund, then move on to the stock market.
• 20:56
  You know, once you've done, you've paid off your debt, then start investing. It's like try to
• 21:00
  diversify as soon as you can, but don't try and do it all at once. Well, it's similar to the idea
• 21:04
  of auto investing. Yeah. It's like, you can't save and invest for dentures in 60 years,
• 21:10
  a holiday in five, a house in seven, kids in, you know, but you have to start somewhere. Yeah.
• 21:17
  And if you start somewhere that's better than being overwhelmed or not doing anything. Exactly,
• 21:21
  exactly. And he said this quote, which was, it's like the incremental gain you get on an enormous
• 21:25
  return is always outweighed by the loss you suffer when you fuck up. So if you fuck up and you make
• 21:31
  a bad decision, you will remember that for way longer than you will, all the great gains you've made.
• 21:36
  So that's why we always say diversify and it always feels so much more painful when you lose money
• 21:41
  than if you grow your money. Do you know what I mean? Like that the excitement you get from growing
• 21:45
  your money will be massively outweighed if you lost all that money in terms of your feelings.
• 21:51
  So is it basically the idea that is similar later when people give you heaps of compliments,
• 21:55
  you always remember the one shitty thing. Yeah, you've gone a million dates and your
• 21:59
  ones that you're beautiful and amazing. And then you have one rejection and that's the thing
• 22:04
  that you hold your head on. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same with money. It's like, yeah, you could have
• 22:10
  win, win, win, win, win, win and then the one loss and that's the thing you remember. But maybe
• 22:13
  that's something to be said for. It's all psychological. But also needing to celebrate the
• 22:17
  wins more. Totally. Because I think, yeah, like in everything. And it's, you know, however,
• 22:22
  in bangs on about like, oh, I would never take back this amazing love I had even though it's
• 22:28
  there's a loss in the end, you know, it should be the same with everything then shouldn't it?
• 22:31
  Because but it's not for some reason. Whereas it should be like that with money and say, well,
• 22:36
  you've had all these amazing wins. Yeah. There's always going to be bad with the good. Like that's
• 22:42
  just life. Yeah. That's why it's like diversify because you don't want to be happy. You want to have
• 22:46
  lots of those wins so that when you do have that fuck up, you can keep going. You're like, I never
• 22:51
  miss you again. You're like, no, no, I've had a whole lot of good ones. Yeah. So it's trying to
• 22:55
  like diversify as much as you can. The other thing he mentioned, which I was like, hallelujah,
• 23:00
  was like, we need to talk more about money. And hearing this from an old white guy was just
• 23:06
  kind of refreshing. Like we bang on about it as woman about how we need to talk about money,
• 23:12
  we need to know the value of ourselves and like, your money is silence and all of that. And just
• 23:18
  so for someone in such a privileged position that he's in to say that. And he said not talking
• 23:25
  about money is precisely what keeps the rich, rich in the poor poor. And sadly, it's true. It's
• 23:31
  the asymmetry of information and it only benefits those with the symmetry, which is like so true.
• 23:37
  It's so powerful. That's why there's so much jargon and the finance industry tries to make
• 23:43
  it confusing for everyone because it's so true. There's a very like clear strategy behind that
• 23:48
  and that is to stop it from being information for everyone. Yeah. And yeah. And I get that if you're
• 23:55
  a lawyer, if you're a doctor and that information or that that knowledge is very specified, but
• 24:02
  understanding how like doctor speak, for example, is not going to change my wealth trajectory,
• 24:07
  but understanding how a financial advisor speaks or understanding complex words when it comes
• 24:14
  to investing or wealth creation is going to change my life. So I need to know if you think about
• 24:20
  like, you know, differently to a doctor like talking about your body is not necessarily something
• 24:26
  you need to know in everyday life, but we use money every day. Every day. All the time. It
• 24:31
  doesn't matter if it's not your career, like law. You might not need to know everything about law,
• 24:37
  but you're not using law in your everyday life, whereas you're using money in your everyday life.
• 24:40
  There's a huge difference in the gate kept information in different areas. Yeah. But like,
• 24:47
  it really is the disadvantaged, like the people who are disadvantaged the most are those who
• 24:53
  need that information the most 100%. So as much as sometimes when you're in a position of privilege
• 24:59
  to say we should talk about money or talking about money feels awkward because you have money,
• 25:03
  it's like you're actually doing everyone a service by talking about it because yeah, you're
• 25:09
  sharing that knowledge. It's really interesting because we've recently given ourselves a pay rise
• 25:13
  and I found myself feeling like, so I don't even know. Sorry, that sounds really bad. No, it was
• 25:20
  too heavy. You could have told me. No, I know, but I kind of was just part of it. So we were like,
• 25:24
  yeah, I reckon you were secretly liked anyway. I was like, we weren't having a drink last weekend,
• 25:29
  and I was like, if I could say, when are we going to get a pay rise? And she was like, we've got one.
• 25:34
  I was like, good to know someone's living paycheck. I was like, no, no, no, because we're not
• 25:38
  paying ourselves particularly like we've kind of been a bit weird without payments lately. I kind
• 25:43
  of thought maybe I was owed money or something. Anyway, but it was interesting because I noticed my
• 25:48
  own like internal dialogue around the idea of like, well, I probably shouldn't talk about having
• 25:53
  a pay rise because now I'm on actually, okay, money, you know, maybe next. And I was like, oh my God,
• 25:57
  this is exactly the whole point. But also, you know, in reverse, when you were earning really,
• 26:02
  really good money, working finance, and you were like, no, I don't want to talk about it because I
• 26:06
  don't want to make other people feel bad. I mean, gosh, it's not also, we're like creaming it,
• 26:10
  but we're not like, you know, really below average. No, but it's also just funny how it makes
• 26:17
  the psychology around not wanting to make other people feel worse or boast or it's on as though we're
• 26:22
  like, yeah, I don't know, it's just, it's interesting. And I noticed it about myself being like,
• 26:26
  oh, I don't know if I want to, and I was like, no, so no, I will be shouting it from the rooftops.
• 26:32
  No, but it's more the fact that also you can't become good at anything if you're not talking about
• 26:37
  it. If you were like, look, I want to become a really good physical engineer and you decided to
• 26:45
  not speak to anyone, not go to any classes, not go, you know, like, you just, you're becoming good at
• 26:51
  something, you need to go and talk to people and leverage off the smarts. It's so interesting,
• 26:57
  isn't it? Because I think this is actually something you've not, you've gotten so much better at
• 27:01
  in terms of asking for help and also talking openly because it is, it's not really,
• 27:06
  it's almost like we're not conditioned or told that's a good idea, but weirdly it is something
• 27:11
  I've always done. I've always really loved talking to people and like, I don't know, but it does,
• 27:16
  it's almost like it shows weakness because you don't know the answer to something, right? But I think,
• 27:20
  you know, even just small things like, I, I love the idea of couples therapy because I think, unless
• 27:26
  you, like, you're not often taught how to like communicate in a relationship or even just with
• 27:31
  friends or family, like, you kind of brought up just thinking you should know how to do xyz,
• 27:35
  but if you don't have like, people that are even better or have knowledge that could help you do
• 27:39
  things more. Yeah. You know, it's just, it's more the idea that you can collect tools and, and know
• 27:44
  how from people that are better at those things. And they can help you get to your goal quicker.
• 27:49
  Do you know what I mean? Like, if you're, because you don't make the mistakes there. Yeah, and you're
• 27:53
  learning from their mistakes and you're giving you expertise of the best way to do things or whatever,
• 27:57
  yeah, you can achieve your goals much faster, whether they're financial or what, like it's, yeah.
• 28:03
  And then one other thing you mentioned was that money can buy happiness, which, I loved this,
• 28:08
  I saw this as a note. I can't remember you must have written it somewhere, but I, yeah,
• 28:12
  I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, he's like, but he caveats it with like, to an
• 28:16
  extent. And I agree. I think money can buy happiness, but it has like diminishing returns. So
• 28:23
  someone earning 40,000 pounds, you give them an extra 20,000, so they're now on 60,000 pounds,
• 28:28
  they're going to be a lot happier. That's about 120, 130 New Zealand and Australia money. Yeah,
• 28:33
  I mean, it's, it's more of a proportion, you know, like you're someone on 40,000 dollars,
• 28:38
  you increase their salary to 60,000 dollars, they're going to be a lot more happy.
• 28:42
  If you were on eight million dollars and you increase that to 15 million, probably not going
• 28:48
  to move the needle. I see what you mean. Yeah, it's like, that's not really going to move the needle.
• 28:51
  Yeah, okay. So it can buy happiness to an extent, you get to a certain point, and I don't know
• 28:55
  what that is, it's probably different from everyone, but it starts diminishing the happiness returns
• 29:00
  effectively. I definitely think something I've noticed is that the, I don't think I ever, ever
• 29:06
  understood the time-verse money thing, you know, time is money. I'm like, what is that name?
• 29:10
  But now, you know, being able to spend my time in ways that I value and doing the things that I
• 29:19
  love is choice, isn't it? It's like, you can choose. But I guess it's a little business, right?
• 29:24
  Like for us, even in the curve, it's like whether you're good at it or you like it, you can start
• 29:29
  to structure how you want your job, your life around and outsource the things that, yeah, you're
• 29:35
  either not good at it or don't like. And when we started, we had to do it all, we had to do
• 29:38
  everything, even the stuff we didn't like, but we did it because we didn't have the capital or
• 29:43
  the money to pay other people. And now, we can really pick and choose what we want to do and hire
• 29:47
  other people for the stuff we don't. It's exactly the same in your everyday life. Yeah, it's a really
• 29:51
  good analogy actually. Money can buy happiness to an extent. And then it also spoke of, I think it
• 29:56
  hasn't even more negative effects when you get even more wealthy because it starts impacting
• 30:00
  your children and the way that they're brought up and their perceptions of money. And he's
• 30:05
  interesting. He's like, I don't want to leave my kids a lot of money because I want them to know
• 30:09
  the value of a dollar and all of that. It's kind of coming back to like what Warren Buffett
• 30:13
  said around, he's not leaving any inheritance to his kids. And so I agree, it can definitely have
• 30:18
  a negative effect. Like I know a lot of people that have been brought up with a lot of money and
• 30:23
  are probably quite unhappy. I mean, it would be kind of cool if there was like a,
• 30:28
  if almost like generational wealth, one inheritance was just not a thing. Like culturally,
• 30:34
  that's just completely gone. So that everyone's kind of on similar playing fields. Every, like,
• 30:39
  your life is your chance to make your, to choose how you spend and earn money. Rather than it just
• 30:45
  be like dictated on ancestors from four generations earlier. Yeah. Also a bit pissed off if I was
• 30:52
  like a hardworking grandma. And then my great, great, great grandchildren, which is like shits
• 30:57
  right now, many years all the time. I'd be like, excuse me. Do you know what your granny does?
• 31:06
  Another way to think of like wealth or like economic security, he puts it as it's the absence
• 31:12
  of economic worry. And I think that is quite powerful. And he spoke, and I'm obviously like
• 31:19
  bringing me to tears. He spoke about when he grew up, he didn't have a lot of money and his,
• 31:22
  he grew up with a single mum. And she worked like three jobs in like, here remember, he lost his,
• 31:29
  he left his jacket on the school bus or something. And it was like a 30 pound jacket. And he got
• 31:34
  home. His mum was like, that's fine. Like she was pretty annoyed. And then he always lost stuff.
• 31:39
  And then he lost it again. And he came home and he was so scared to tell his mum because he knew
• 31:43
  that like they couldn't afford a new jacket. So he, he described, it's like this money was like
• 31:48
  this ghost that followed them around all day every day. And he was like, it was like this whole shame
• 31:55
  around not having enough. And he was like, people that have never not had money will never understand
• 32:00
  like he was like, you just don't understand the, the ghost that's there all the time. And he's
• 32:05
  like, there was this one time at soccer. And after soccer, all the kids went and got ice cream. Like
• 32:10
  that was just the thing they did. And his mum would always shuffle them into the car really quickly
• 32:14
  and be like, we don't have time. We've got to go somewhere else. Like, and he didn't know until he
• 32:17
  was a bit older. That was because they didn't have money for ice cream. You know, like it was like
• 32:20
  this constant thing. And I was just like, my heart was breaking. I was like, gosh, it's so true.
• 32:24
  You just, you never understand the hardships that some people go through if you've never experienced
• 32:28
  that. And so it's like, but I think, yeah, economic security is the absence of economic worry.
• 32:34
  It's like, you don't want to be worrying about not being able to afford things or not being able
• 32:39
  to purchase things or buy those necessities. And so it's just like, we talked, we tried to talk
• 32:44
  about it in a positive light, but having economic wealth and having economic financial freedom
• 32:49
  and all of that. But it is. It's really just like, you just don't want the other side of the
• 32:53
  equation. And so try to flip it on. It's hidden a bit more of an aspirational positive light. But yeah,
• 32:59
  it's like, I think it's such a powerful lesson. And it's so true. And I think what I don't think
• 33:06
  that does is it doesn't take away from if you've had a somewhat privileged upbringing and your
• 33:10
  relationship with money is still one that's quite anxious, you know, or it's not a case of saying,
• 33:17
  oh, well, I could always have ice cream as a kid and therefore, like, I should be blah, blah, blah.
• 33:21
  I think the way that money and our upbringing and our parents and the way they talk about it,
• 33:26
  all of that stuff is so like deeply rooted. But I mean, like, I feel that stress with myself,
• 33:32
  but I have no kids. I have no, you know, I'm not letting anyone else down by not having enough.
• 33:37
  I couldn't imagine that feeling and having kids, yeah. And also, I think it comes down to like
• 33:46
  the driving force and how some people, you know, like, this is kind of maybe a weird example. But,
• 33:52
  you know, when if some parents smoke heaps, the kids either smoke heaps or like never want to
• 33:58
  touch a cigarette in their life. And it's like, you just even know how things your childhood,
• 34:03
  how you experience, whether it be money or otherwise, will show up in adulthood. And I guess,
• 34:09
  yeah, unless you've experienced that ghost of feeling like that shame around money.
• 34:15
  Yeah. Yeah. You might have the money ghost. Yeah. I really just think it's probably like a nice
• 34:21
  reminder for everyone listening and for us to remember, like, be compassionate, but you even know
• 34:27
  what financial situation people have been through, what they, they're in. Yeah. You just
• 34:33
  didn't have so much complexity. Like, I friend of mine a while ago, I was like, gosh, I've got this
• 34:37
  one friend that just, she was kind of complaints about the restaurant being expensive and she sort of
• 34:41
  said to me, you know, like, I feel a little bit like, does she think we all are like rolling at
• 34:46
  everything because we're all struggling, you know, but I was like, I think every time you feel
• 34:50
  frustrated with someone else's money story, and this is a good reminder for me to I'm kind of talking
• 34:55
  to myself to like just, yeah, always try and come from a place of compassion rather than like
• 35:00
  judgey because it's hard sometimes, definitely. Even I was at dinner the other day and sorry,
• 35:07
  like a lunch and I really didn't want to pay for everyone's alcohol. And I just like felt
• 35:11
  too awkward anyway, whatever it was fine, it wasn't a big deal. But I felt ashamed for asking
• 35:17
  my friend like, I text her while at the table, being like, do you reckon you could help me?
• 35:22
  And like, just, I just really don't want to pay for everyone's alcohol. And I was like, I felt
• 35:24
  really embarrassed, but it's like, you know, if you're on the other side of anything like that,
• 35:29
  just like trying to be kind because I feel terrible someone's paying for my alcohol and be like,
• 35:36
  this is not real, whether that's alcohol, whether that's like someone complaining about this or
• 35:40
  not paying back for this, like there's probably always a deeper story. Yes, yeah, that's very true.
• 35:45
  And lastly, I'm just just on this, he's American and he now lives in Europe. And he was talking to
• 35:53
  a bunch of British people and someone asked him, like, you know, what are your views of like
• 35:57
  British versus American? And it's like, he's like British people are way less comfortable talking
• 36:01
  about money, which we have definitely noticed. And yeah, he just said there's like this more
• 36:07
  transferring attitude towards money in the US, which has meant that they, you know, they're
• 36:12
  there are more innovative nation, you know, like they, they just, they're just more ambitious
• 36:17
  and when it comes to like money, business, all of that, anyway, he's like, is there ambitious
• 36:22
  or is it just like that they own it? They just own it. Yeah, and it's probably like, but I think it's
• 36:26
  a great example of like a nation that talks about money and what they've achieved versus a nation
• 36:32
  that doesn't. Actually, that's so true. I mean, don't get me wrong, the UK has achieved great
• 36:37
  things, but in terms of America and yeah, lots of things going obviously, but yeah, but no,
• 36:42
  but you're right from an economic standpoint, it's yeah, interesting to see the flow on effects
• 36:47
  of what culturally when you're really open and outward about money, how that can flow on. Yeah,
• 36:52
  and he's just like, he's like, the UK has a really talented bunch of charming people who just serve
• 36:58
  other people's wealth. He's like, there's no wealth creation in the UK. They're not making money
• 37:03
  themselves. They're just managing other people's money. Oh, and it was kind of the crowd response
• 37:08
  was different, like, but it was kind of like, you think a huge realization, but it's so true. It's
• 37:12
  like, this is a financial hub here in London, but it's literally you're managing other people's money,
• 37:17
  you know, all of the world. Yeah, I don't know. It was quite funny. And then he said, it might be
• 37:22
  Cambridge that produces really groundbreaking intellectual property, for example, but it's
• 37:27
  monetized in America. You know, it's like that kind of example of it's like, the US is the best
• 37:31
  place to make money. Europe's the best place to spend it. It's kind of like his analogy. And I was
• 37:36
  like, oh my God. So true. So true. We're moving to the US. I was like, gosh, we need to make
• 37:41
  more money. Well, I might even notice it about myself and about us as a business, the more open
• 37:46
  we can be talking about money from business perspective. It's similar to like asking for help,
• 37:52
  whether it's to do with like, how to do your makeup or how to like find XYZ or learn about
• 37:57
  lore or whatever it is that you're trying to learn about. Yeah. It's like the more open you can be,
• 38:02
  the more you get back. And I've noticed that for us from the curve, like the more we can talk about
• 38:07
  where we're at, what we're trying to do. Totally. The more people can help make it happen.
• 38:10
  I bet definitely took me time. I was like, no, we can't share any of our trade secrets.
• 38:14
  You know, I was like, like, girl, you're not that much of a big deal. I like that. I must tell you
• 38:21
  that I'm not, I'm not feeling inspired to read the book. Okay. Yeah. But I'm glad that you got a lot
• 38:26
  on this. And the synopsis that you got, I think, was inspiring. So if you do want to read the book,
• 38:31
  it's called The Algebra of Well, a simple formula for success by Scott Gellway. We'll put the link
• 38:36
  maybe in the podcast. Yes. Good idea. I quite like the book reviews. I feel like this could be a bit
• 38:41
  of a regular thing. I do love reading. It also makes me, I find sometimes when I read books, I'm like,
• 38:46
  what was that chapter about? You know, it makes me think about it. Yeah. And actually take note of
• 38:52
  what's in it. If I'm like, gosh, I have to put it on a podcast. Yeah. You know, I loved it.
• 38:57
  Thanks, heaps. No worries. Okay. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
• 39:04
  These conversations are designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be
• 39:07
  better with your money, from saving, to investing, to talking to your friends about your salaries.
• 39:12
  And if you liked what you heard, we would love it. If you could hit subscribe button, please.
• 39:17
  Better yet. Leave a review. It'll take five seconds and it would really make our week.
• 39:23
  Oh yeah. Our month. Okay. Lots of love. See you soon. Bye.