Latest / Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge / Legally Brunette: The Patrick Clancy Interview

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Legally Brunette: The Patrick Clancy Interview · Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys. Welcome to Legally Brunette. I will be your
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: host today, Emily Simpson with.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Shane.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, because we have been following the Lindsay Clancy trial,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: and we've done three episodes so far on Legally Brunette
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: covering the trial. Also, by the way, if you haven't
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: listened to those, I think they're pretty well done. I
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: think they're pretty good. So, you know, I would suggest
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: you guys go back and listen to those if you
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: haven't yet. But because Patrick Clancy has decided to give
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a 60-minute interview, we are going to go through his
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: interview and discuss it. Also, by the way, I was
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: under the assumption because the interview was on 60 minutes
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: that I thought his interview would be 60 minutes. So
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: then when I watched it, it ended up only being
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: 14 minutes.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a bit of a.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I was confused.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: It was a... Yeah.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I was hyped up and it really... Maybe that's why
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: it's 15 minutes. Maybe they interviewed him for an hour
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: and like, this isn't that good.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All right.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about it. So Patrick Clancy speaks publicly
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: for the first time since the Lindsay Clancy trial in
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: this 60 Minutes interview. Patrick describes noticing Lindsay's deterioration beginning
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: in October of 2022 when their youngest child, Callan, was
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: just five months old. He claims that Lindsay stopped sleeping
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and sank into severe depression. He admits he was largely unprepared.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't know how to manage a postpartum illness and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: believes the deceptive nature of mental illness meant he likely
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: missed warning signs.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I saw that part. I thought how true
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: that is.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Just people in general.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not, it's like she has, any female
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: has postpartum issues. It's totally valid and serious. But that's not,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and it's not just like, oh, go get help. It's like, well,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: then the spouse has to know how to navigate that. Right.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: And support them. Like that's, that's, it was kind of sad.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: It was.
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  Speaker 2: It was like, oh, you know, he didn't know how,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and I don't know how to either, but he didn't
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: know how to handle it. So it's like, she goes
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: and gets treatment, right?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Well, she's trying to get treatment.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Right. Trying to get treatment. And I'm not going to
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: judge the treatment, whether it was good or bad, but
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: she's trying to get treatment. And it's like, maybe there
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: should be treatment for, like the spouse, which is how
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: to handle it. Because isn't that what they do when
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: they go to rehab? Then the family also needs to
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: go to some sort of seminar or some type of
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: educational thing on how to deal with someone that's sober,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: that's a recovering addict. Like that's what, in this case,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: the men need.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, here's your prescription. And sir, here's
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: your prescription. I mean, something.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Over the following months, Lindsay made repeated ER visits, entered
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: a brief inpatient program, and was prescribed numerous medications. On
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: New Year's Eve, she checked herself into McLean Psychiatric Hospital
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and was treated for depression before being released just days later.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: He does talk about, I believe, that she claimed she
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to go home. I think that was of her
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: own accord that she said that she wanted to leave.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: The family celebrated their daughter Cora's birthday on January 7th
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and 17 days after that. This is when the unthinkable happened.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So on January 24th of 2023, Patrick came home to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: find Lindsay in the backyard, her throat and wrist cut
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: and paralyzed after jumping from an upstairs window in the basement.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: He found Cora and Dawson strangled and dead. And Callan
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: who was five months old was still alive and was
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: airlifted to Boston children's hospital. Um, I don't know. You know,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like through this trial, the one thing that
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I think bothers me the most is that I feel
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: like the true victims in this case, the three children,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: get lost in all of the social media hype as to,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: you know, whether it was investigated correctly, whether Patrick was involved.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Patrick had something to do with it. I feel like
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the true victims are lost in all of that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: But what's to be done?
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  Speaker 1: Because I feel like there's just too much focus on
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Patrick and his... demeanor and whether he said something correctly
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: or not, or whether he was stoic or emotional or,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, it's just,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like there was just a loss of three
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: children and, you know, these people that are all over,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: you know, him as far as him being involved or,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: You know, they probably couldn't tell you anything about the
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: three children, their birthdays or their favorite toy or their
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: favorite color. I just feel like the victims are so
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: lost in this that people don't know anything about them.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: They're just so, they just want to analyze his every
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: word and every move.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Patrick says he arrived at the hospital that night begging
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that he claims he said, just give me one, just
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: give me one kid. But when he saw the doctor's expression,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: he knew it would be bad news. I know he
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: claims that he says that he spent those four days
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in the hospital with Callan. Callan's heart kept beating for
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: four more days. And Patrick describes lying next to him
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: in the hospital bed, holding his hand and saying, I'm
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: so sorry. Callan died in his arms. You know, the
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: people didn't know that, you know, they talk about how
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: his demeanor on the stand was, you know, stoic or
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: unemotional or whatever, but they don't, they don't know what
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: he went through. They don't know what he acted like
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: when he was in the hospital. They don't know what
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: his sentiments were, how he acted when he was in
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the hospital for four days, holding his baby's hand before
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: he finally passed away in his arms. You know, a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: lot of that is forgotten and left out. And it's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: just more of like, oh, he's on the stand testifying.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: But if he didn't visit the child and he didn't
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: hold the child for four days, that would have been
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: all over.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: But the fact that he was loving and kind and
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: being close to them during this time, that didn't, no
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: one cared to share that.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if that information was out there
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: or even.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Well, that's my point though. Yeah. Had he not visited,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: it would have somehow gotten out there. Yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Patrick also claims that during that time period when he
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: was in the hospital and he was with Callan, he
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: also typed tributes. He said he was holding his son
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: with one hand and he was typing with his other hand.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: He typed tributes to his three children with one hand
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: while holding Callan's hand with the other. He didn't want
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: them to be forgotten. Patrick also made a public statement
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: just days after the murders in which he forgave Lindsay.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: He says that he's, he talked about how he said
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: it in the news and all the articles that were
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: coming out, they were calling her a monster and a
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: killer mom and all of those things.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: And then he said, none of it was true. And
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like, okay, I think I know
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: where he's going, which is like labeling her a monster.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: But she did kill her three kids.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: She did.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I guess. It's an accurate label to say she's a killer. Right.
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  Speaker 1: I guess what he didn't like was the reference to
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: her being a monster.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And so.
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  Speaker 2: Cause he's saying for many of their years, she was
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: not a monster, right? Like she had a, she had
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: a moment. Right. You could put it like that, but
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  Speaker 2: I mean like, you know, it didn't define her entire existence. Right.
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  Speaker 1: And he claims that he rejected the media framing her
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  Speaker 1: as a killer mom or a monster because because he
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  Speaker 1: believes her mental illness was responsible for her actions. And
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  Speaker 1: he added, if I didn't get there, I would be
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: eaten up inside forever.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: It's probably easier for him to say she had a
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: mental illness too, whether he believes it or not. I'm
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  Speaker 2: not trying to say that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I, you know, he claims he had to
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  Speaker 1: get to the part. He says that he, she didn't
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: ask him to forgive her. He just claims that he
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  Speaker 1: forgave her on his own because he needed to, because
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  Speaker 1: he had to, in order to be able to move on. Right. Um,
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  Speaker 1: he did not, the, the interviewer asked, did you ask
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Lindsay why she did it? And he says, I didn't
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  Speaker 1: ask her why she did it, but he asked if
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  Speaker 1: she remembered what happened. And she told him that it
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: was like a dream vivid, but distant. And I was
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: trying to picture that because when you, when you're asleep
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, you're dreaming and then you wake up
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and you come out of a dream, it is a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: very weird state.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Well, it's like, okay. When you come to the realization
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  Speaker 2: that was a dream or a nightmare, um, But you
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: still have those emotions, right? Like, oh my gosh, but
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: that was scary. Yeah. But you're not there anymore. So
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. But you still feel it. So you're
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: kind of in and out of it.
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  Speaker 1: You feel it. But have you ever tried to remember
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: a dream? And it's so lucid. Like, you can't ever
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: remember it in a.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Well, you don't remember your dreams. It's very different. Like...
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you'll wake up and you'll remember a dream. Then
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: later in the day, you can't remember what you had.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dreams are weird.
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  Speaker 2: I remember my dad told me, he goes, if you
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: get a journal and you wake up in the morning,
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  Speaker 2: you try to remember your dream and you write it down.
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  Speaker 2: He goes, then you'll go back and look at it
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: even later that day. And you'll be like, oh, I
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: don't remember anything like that. And I did that once.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: You wrote in a journal?
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I probably still have it. And I wrote my dreams.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And I bought a journal just for dreams. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And I did it for a couple of weeks and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I wrote a handful in there and there's some crazy
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: stuff in there. Like this is all stupid stuff. Like,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: you know, like kid stuff. It wasn't like nothing dramatic.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: How old are you when you're doing this?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I was high school. And so I wrote these dreams
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and every day I'd wake up and I'd get the
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: habit of waking up and then trying to remember my dream.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And you would remember some things if you made the effort. Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And then I'd quickly like write a paragraph down. Yeah.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And then I'd later go back and read it and
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, that's weird.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you have this journal still?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably. It's probably in my box.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: We're going to find it. That's the next episode. Shane's
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: high school dreams.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, you don't want to look into my head in
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: high school.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, goodness.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So what was the point of all that?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: So she had a dream. She felt it was like
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: a dream. Yes. Right? Or something like that.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't understand. I've like, I don't know.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: That means she had some awareness.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Some recollection, right? Here's my thoughts on this interview before
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: we go any further.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: that he's trying to clean up his public image as
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: well as his wife who comes in at the end.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: The reason why he did the interview.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: But I think that's the reason why he agreed to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the interview. I think the interview was only 14 minutes
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: because they probably removed so much from the interview.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: There probably wasn't much more there.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: No, I think that he talked for a long time.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, they went to different locations.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: What do you think he said?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying he probably has attorneys on his side
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that were saying, take that out. Because they got a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: lot of backlash. Remember they released that clip of Rachel
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Danis talking about how she met Patrick. And she's like,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I was just a girl on a cold Saturday. I
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: just fell in love.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people were making fun of her.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: They were equating it to that line that Julia Roberts
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: delivers in Notting Hill when she says, I'm just a
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: girl standing in front of a boy. Asking him to
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: love her. See, I know it's not. Well, I saw
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it many, many times. Anyway, a lot of people were
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: making fun of her online and talk, you know what
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I mean? So that clip was not in this interview.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So I'm saying, I think they got a preemptive look
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: at like how social media was going to respond to
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the things that they were saying.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: And I think that might've been intended to be an
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: entire episode. Yes. I think it was supposed to be
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: got cut short for a number of reasons. And they're like, okay, well, uh,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: There's the Catholic Church. We can always find something on them.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about them. Because didn't they all of a
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: sudden go into the Catholic Church? I was like, what
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: is this?
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it was only 14 minutes long. And so
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: my thought is they probably had planned to have a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: full 60-minute episode.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: It's 60-minute worthy. Right.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: But I think it got cut to 14 minutes because,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: first of all, they probably only agreed to do the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: interview with a lot of stipulations in place, right? That
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: they got to preview it first, that their attorneys.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Got to look at it. No incriminating statements.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Right, a first refusal as to what was able to
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: be put out there. I'm sure for them to sit
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: down and do that interview that they had a lot of.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And then the next question is... How much did he
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: get paid?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: That is the question. I do want to know that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Cause you know, they got paid.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, he should get paid. I wouldn't do it if
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I wasn't getting paid.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I bet it was a lot. Cause I bet he
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: did one interview. I bet it was 60 minutes and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that was the one. And I bet.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: One and done.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: One and done.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: You got more than six figures. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: You think so? Oh yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I think so. But I mean, maybe we'll, I don't
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: know if we'll know.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll never know.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Unless all of a sudden he was in a big
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: house in the Hamptons or something like that.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Then we're like, yeah, that 14 minute interview.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about Patrick's life after the tragedy.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: So after the funerals, Patrick says his world emptied out
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: one day without thinking. He talks about how he drove
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: past his children's school at the drop off time and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: then had to leave because he saw all of his
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: kids friends being dropped off at school and he realized
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that he couldn't just kind of stick around in the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: same area where he was seeing all these things. For
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a while, he didn't think he would live to see
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: his 35th birthday because of suicidal ideations and that he
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: was completely fine with that. Then he decides in April
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: of 2023, this is three months after his children's deaths,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: that he moved to New York City seeking anonymity. Then
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: he claims, he talks about how on Callan's first birthday,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: he didn't know how to celebrate it so that he
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: went to St. Patrick's Cathedral and This is on Fifth Avenue,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and he lit a candle for Callan. And then when
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: he left the cathedral, he stepped outside and was crying
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: his eyes out. And he felt relief that no one
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: around him knew or cared. And that's when he claimed
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: this is where I need to be. I can grieve here.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Patrick keeps his children's memory alive in his Manhattan apartment
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: through specific objects. They do travel to his apartment and
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: He talks about how Cora likes sloths, and he saved
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: a stuffed baby sloth. A photo of Callan. He has
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: that oversized bow tie on. And Dawson's toy helicopter. Can
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you imagine, though? Because he talks about, he has to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: go back to that house, and he moves. So he
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: has to go back, and he has to empty out
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that entire house.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I know. You have to go through the kids' rooms.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: You have to go through their rooms.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You have to go through all that stuff.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Three children. Yeah. In a house that you lived in
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: with your wife.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she can't help.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And you have to empty their rooms out and you
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: have to move everything out and it's all gone.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: They didn't have to move.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I would move too. I don't think I could
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: have stayed in that house. Could you, could you live
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: somewhere where that tragedy like that took place?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Was it a renter?
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: No, they own the home.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: They own the home. So you gotta go through the
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: whole process of actually.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Cause he sold it. Remember?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: No, but I believe you. I mean, he had to
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: go through it. Now he has to go through a
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: whole process. You can't just get up and leave. Right.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: In Duxbury, where this is the town that they lived in.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Wait, did the home sell?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: So the home was purchased by a former district attorney.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: So someone.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Well, they have to live somewhere too. Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just thought maybe... I mean, maybe
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean there's something salacious going on just because
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that happened. It's a small town. I don't know.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: No, but it'd be more interesting if it was salacious. Yeah.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it is. I don't know.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Let's start the rumor that it's salacious.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: In Duxbury, this is the town that they lived in.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Patrick helped build a playground in the honor of his children...
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: There were sloths for Cora, a firefighter figure for Dawson
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: and a toddler's play area for Callan. Um, I didn't
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: know about that. That wasn't something that was out on
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: social media, that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: There was a, you know, they had the handprints there and.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Their names and stuff to honor them.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: But then who did that? The city or like public?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know if the community came together and paid
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: for it. I don't know if the city paid for
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: it and dedicated it. I don't, I don't know, but
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. Um, let's talk about some TikTok theories. So
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Clancy's trial concluded with a hung jury and Patrick
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: is currently waiting to learn whether a retrial will occur.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: We do know, cause we talked about this in a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: previous episode that September 29th that's coming up soon is when, um,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Clancy is due back in court with her attorney.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And that's when we'll probably know whether the DA's office
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: is going to retry the case or plea deal or whatever.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: What are your predictions? Well, I do know that Lindsey
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Clancy's defense team now has the attorney, I believe that
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: was on Karen Reed's case, that argued that she shouldn't
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: be retried because it would be double jeopardy, which didn't work.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: It's not double jeopardy.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: But he's now on board on Lindsey Clancy's defense team,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: and he's going to make that argument. So we'll see
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: what happens with that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Well, Judge Judy says she should be retried.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Is that what judge Judy says?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Cause she says it would be a miscarriage, a miscarriage
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: of justice.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Basically. Cause you're, she goes, three kids are dead. Right.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: And you're going to not like try to get a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: resolution one way or another. Right.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: During the trial, an online community of sleuths has constructed
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: theories portraying Patrick as abusive, unfaithful, or even responsible for
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the killings. He frames the conspiracy theories as quote, deeply
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: harmful to the legacy of my children and, and a
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: distraction from the real issue of maternal mental health. You know,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I would say he was prepped very well for this
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: interview because he gives short, concise, and appropriate answers. He
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't talk too much, if you noticed. He keeps his
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: statements short, but they're appropriate.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I would think he would be coached.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Not coached to, like, fabricate, but it's coached to, like,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: be safe and careful. By the way, I must clear up,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I looked it up and it said he was paid zero. Oh, really?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: There might have been indirect compensation like travel and this
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: and that, which is more than likely, but zero. Wow.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't read any further, but, you know, I would
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: think they'd at least make, like, I thought maybe the
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: park could have been done. You know, like 60 Minutes
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: could contribute a donation to the park to build it
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: up or something. Which it was already built, but I
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: meant like something like that would be very logical. Because
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: this is not a personal gain, but you're doing something
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: that helps kind of, you know, create something more long-term,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: you know, for your children's names, memories.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: So Patrick also addresses the perception of him as cold
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: on the witness stand, revealing that before the 911 call
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was played in court... I thought this was interesting. I
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: thought this was good that he did this because they do,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: everyone does pick apart his demeanor at trial. And when
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: he was testifying, talking about how he was just, you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: had no emotion and things like that. So he does
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: let you into a little bit of things that happened
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: during the trial that you don't know about. So he
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: claims that he knew that the 911 call was going
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: to be played in court and that knowing that he
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: ended up having, like he says, a full blown type
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of severe panic attack and like a back room at court,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: they actually had to put him into the ambulance. They
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: offered him medication. he refused the medication because he said
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: he just wanted to get back on the stand and
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: be very clear headed so that he could get through
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the testimony. But I thought it was really interesting. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I thought it was good that he did bring that
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: up because it shows a different side of him because
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: everyone keeps talking about this stoic, emotionless character on this
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: witness stand. But now you can visualize him behind the scenes.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And, Closer to the time of the incident, too.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Having a panic attack, being emotional, being offered medication, being
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: put in an ambulance.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, during the trial. During the trial. I'm sorry,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: this is during the trial. Right. Yeah.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: And we do know, and I've talked about this before.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: People who have heard the 911 call of when he
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: called 911 and he was on the phone with the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: dispatcher and that's when he discovers his children in the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: basement dead. People who have heard that 911 call have
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: said that there is no way that he could have
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: been involved because.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Of how it was too real.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: It was too real. It was chilling. Like people said,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: they can't get out of their heads. They'll never be
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the same after listening to it. So all those people
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: that continue to kind of perpetuate that he had some involvement,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: maybe they should listen to the 911 call and maybe
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: they would have a different, a different perspective.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: 911 call is not available, right?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: It's not, it was never made public, but people in
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the courtroom that heard it have, have, talked about it. Um,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Patrick claims that he has channeled much of his grief
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: into advocacy, reaching out to postpartum support international and consulting
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: with psychiatrists about what really happened to Lindsay. Um, in
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: January of 2024 at a run club in New York,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Patrick met Rachel Danis. Now this was interesting because there's
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: been so much online speculation as to him having an
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: affair when he met Rachel. Remember a lot of people
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: were saying four months, they were together.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Four months later, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, and obviously they can concoct
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: whatever timeline they want. They're the only two people that know.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: But from his timeline, he moved to New York four
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: months after the children died. Then he joined a run
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: club in New York. And then he met Rachel when
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: they were in this run club. Then they weren't married
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: until four months before the trial. So they were married
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: in 2026, which is three years after the incident happened.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, the alternative is what he Goes in his
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: room and hides.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: So he meets Rachel Dannis. This is at a run club,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: a fertility doctor. The relationship began over coffee. She claims
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: that she noticed on his phone wallpaper that there was
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: a photo of three children. And she said, who are
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: those cuties? And she also asked if they lived in Massachusetts.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I thought that was kind of a weird question to say,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: who are those cuties? And then say, do they live
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: in Massachusetts? I would assume... Do you see your kids often?
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Do you think people knew who he was, though? I
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: know he moves to New York City for anonymity.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: But it was also a lot in the news when
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it first happened as to him, Lindsay, the children that died.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know if she really didn't know who he was.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: It depends if there's a lot of women in the
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: run club. Why? Because then they would all be talking
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: about that Patrick guy.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Because they knew who it was.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, then word gets around.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So he tells Rachel that his children had died, and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: though she had many questions, she claims that she didn't
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: know what to ask. They did just get married in
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: New York City this past April. They got married just
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a couple months before the trial began.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Does she have any children?
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: No, but it is confirmed because the interviewer asked this
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: during the interview, the 14-minute interview. He said, so you're
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: going to start a family. And then they were both
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: kind of awkward. They were like, yes, we're starting a family.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: And I was like, what does that mean, starting a family?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: But then today I read that it's confirmed that she's pregnant.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: But they didn't really confirm that in the interview. It
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: was just more of like a vague, yes, we're starting
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a family. But I did read today that the interviewer
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: confirmed that she's Currently pregnant.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: And she's a fertility doctor. Yes.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Rachel says that she can't bring his children back, but
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that she can help him honor them and carry the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: weight of grief alongside him. The couple is now expecting
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: a child, and Patrick says he can't wait to tell
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the new baby about their brothers and sister. No.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: What do you mean he can't wait? That sounds weird.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: That does sound weird.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to judge. Well, I am judging.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to say he shouldn't say that, but.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: That just sounded a little.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Did you see her interview part? I mean, her part
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: was only like a couple of minutes. I mean, the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: whole thing was only 14 minutes.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't necessarily her part. She would just jump
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: in once in a while.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: No, she came in at the end. It was mostly him.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And then she came in at the end. And so
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: it was only a couple of minutes with her. I
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: found her unlikable. I just do.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Well, you don't have to date her.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I don't, but I find her unlikable. I thought that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: she's not.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Going to be your fertility doctor.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: No, I just, I found, I just, I find her
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: demeanor and like the way she answers questions. I don't
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: find her to be, I just don't find her to
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: be genuine. And she talks about how she like carry
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the grief for him. I mean, no, you just need
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: to support him.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. I disagree with you on that. She
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: was asked the question.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And that's how she answered it. Like she could help
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: them along. I, I don't remember the exact word, so
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I don't want to rephrase. I don't want to chop
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: it up, but she was asked basically if she's able
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to help him or if them being together has kind
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: of allowed him to grief or something along those lines.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And she basically said she was there to support him
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: in helping him. Cause I think, I think the question
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: now was like, can you like, you being together, has
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: that helped him get over his grief? Like, are you
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: responsible for that? And I think she was like, no,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I can't do that for him, but I can be
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: there alongside him and support him.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: So you liked her?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: No, but I disagree with what you said. Okay.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Both Patrick and Lindsay have filed separate medical malpractice lawsuits
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: against her healthcare providers. Lindsay remains held at Turksbury Hospital
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: in Massachusetts, awaiting word on whether she will face a retrial.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: or not. And we will continue to follow that the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: hearings coming up on September 29. So that will be
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: very interesting to see what happens at that next hearing
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: on the 29th of September. So we will follow along
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: with that. Also, I'm very interested in your guys's take
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: on the 14 minute 60 minute interview. I'd like to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: hear what you guys have to say about that. So
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: please find me on Instagram. Send me a DM. I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: love your feedback. Also, be sure to follow Legally Brunette
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave us a review. And
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: if you have any recommendations of cases that you would
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: like us to talk about, please let me know. Also,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: one more thing I was going to say. I've been
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: putting off. like the JonBenet case because it's so complicated.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: But I've followed it for a long time. I know
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: a lot about it. But anyway, doing an actual episode
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: or it would have to be multiple episodes.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Are you going to solve that case too?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going to solve it. I'm ready to solve it.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: But we're going to have to do it because Netflix,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's Netflix, is coming out with a scripted style,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And you're going to watch it and you're going to
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: say everything that's wrong with it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Probably. Of JonBenet. Also, another one. I just read that.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know who it's who, what per, I don't
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: know who the big name is that's doing it, but
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: it's the Natalie Holloway case. And I believe they're interviewing
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: her mother and her it's her mother's perspective as to
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: what happened and the disappearance and all that. So we're
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: going to have to follow that one as well. That
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: one's interesting. All right, guys, thank you so much for
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: listening to legally brunette. We appreciate you.