Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.353: Synthetic Vs. Natural Fragrances 101 ft. Veronique Gabai

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E.353: Synthetic Vs. Natural Fragrances 101 ft. Veronique Gabai · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing a wonderful series for you guys with the amazing Veronique Gabai.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know you guys had uh listened to our episode featuring her brand, you know, when we first started the series.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I am just so thrilled to see her, you know, commit to this and really teach us about fragrances.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what this series is really going to be all about is different topics in the fragrance world that we all just wonder about.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know about.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we have the expert here herself.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So today's show is going to be about natural versus synthetic.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but welcome back, Veronique.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so thrilled to be hosting you again.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so, so happy to be here and to talk to uh everybody listening uh to your podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's a very interesting way to look at the category, and I could not think of a better person to do it with.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Ecta.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: That means the world to me coming from you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited to dive into this topic because I know that I'm very, very uh, you know, a novice really when it comes to fragrance.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to just, you know, dive into the idea of what is natural versus synthetic.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'd love for you to get us started.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you could share like a story you have from you know uh the past where you've worked with, you know, maybe natural fragrance and then moved to synthetic or however you want to get us started.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I mean, you know, the the door of the naturals in you know, ingredients were was opened to me by perfumers, you know, in my early days in the industry.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then really when I worked with um Jean-Paul Gerlin when I was heading Gerlin, really uh, you know, it was like a deep dive into what naturals were and what they do when they are put into any composition or when you wear them on skin.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it, you know, it's it's been a love affair of mine, you know, to work with naturals.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean that synthetics are necessarily bad, they are not, but I think you know naturals or synthetics can be used for different reasons.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to know what you're looking for.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think today it would be great to debunk a few myths, you know, around either the synthetics or the naturals, and then for people to understand what to look for and why naturals are used and why synthetics are used, and uh, you know, what is your preference, really, you know?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's a great place to start.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would love for you to go through and uh I guess a good starting place is kind of define this for our audience, you know what I mean?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what is a synthetic fragrance?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is what does that mean when we hear synthetic fragrance?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so basically, unlike a natural ingredient, which is coming from the plant, it bears the names of, uh, and then we can discuss the way that we uh create those natural ingredients, but natural ingredients come really from the plant.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's a direct byproduct of the plant.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: A synthetic ingredient is created by men uh in a lab, okay.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh synthetics are you know, take many shapes and forms.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you have um the bad synthetics, you know, the ones that are coming from petrochemicals, you know, less and less used in the industry, thank God, but they are there, and then you have synthetics that are composed either with a strong respect of the environment, that would be green chemistry, or just created by men.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those synthetics are not biodegradable.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So there's you know, good and bad in synthetics.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the reality of synthetics is that the reason why they exist are numerous, one is because sometimes it's much cheaper to use a synthetic than using a natural.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and so um that could be good and bad, we can talk about that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sometimes we use synthetics because we cannot use naturals, you know.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: For example, um the animal products that were used in the 16th century or 17th century, nobody wants to use animal byproducts today.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that would be completely wrong.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we had to find a way to reproduce the effect of those um products in synthetics.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, for example, a musk, you know, no one is ever using a natural mask anymore, you know, in the four centuries.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a synthetic musk that mimic, if you will, nature.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same with other products as well.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um or it's because in nature a certain ingredient is starting to uh deplete, and we don't want to deplete the planet, so we find a way to reproduce it uh synthetically.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um those are the various types of synthetic.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um in fragrance, you know, um sometimes it's it's fantastic to use them.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um sometimes uh, you know, I think it it cheapens a little bit uh the richness of a fragrance if you use too many synthetics.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's another kind of synthetics, if you will, that are completely man-made.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't reproduce nature in any way, it's just a sensation that was created in the lab.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and sometimes it's great, sometimes you know you wonder um how to use this kind of you know, UFOs, if you will.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: But for example, in the past, you have a you have a synthetic called Idehyde C11.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, nothing to do with anything existing in nature, it doesn't reproduce nature, it doesn't replace nature, it's not cheaper than nature, it's just a thing.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that thing smells a little bit like you know, when you go to a dry cleaner, that scent that you have and you enter a dry cleaner, okay, that's what C11 smells like.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And for example, it was used um as a boost of some floral notes.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: For example, the first time it was used was uh in channel number five.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, and this is nothing to compare to nature.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: So synthetics do different things, and and if you want more examples, I can give you a lot more.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's that's very interesting that you mentioned the boost uh aspect of it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that I think that makes most sense to me, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think when I think of fragrance, Ronick, I always think of, you know, I think we discussed this in our first episode, you know, when I was talking to you about your scents, especially the brand new line that you've come out with, is this feeling of, you know, being back in nature, you know, it connects you to nature.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, you know, as a consumer, synthetic, it just doesn't have a place like naturals does.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I think of natural fragrance, I think, okay, it's going to smell like the flower that reminds me of, you know, whatever it is, whether that's jasmine or, you know, whatever flower I'm talking about, or certain plants.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So synthetic in the way that you've described it, where it's like a uh, you know, a boost or some sort of you know, um kind of adding to the overall formulation rather than being the formulation, that makes more sense to me.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and sometimes uh synthetics are used basically to give an enormous amount of power to a fragrance.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes when you have a lot of synthetics in a fragrance, the fragrance can become like this.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I call it an atomic bomb, you know, it's like so enormous that honestly, at times it becomes overwhelming.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but people use synthetics to give that performance, to make the fragrance super big, so people feel like they have, you know, achieved uh, you know, a lot of results for their money.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's not necessarily, I think, um, the way that I would look at at nature.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that synthetic will necessarily boost nature in that sense.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: It will make it make the fragrance bigger because when you use natural ingredients, one of the drawbacks of natural ingredients is that they are not lasting as long as a synthetic.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, natural is natural.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like any living being on earth, it has a start, it has a bloom, and it has a finish.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and there's beauty to it, you know, there's there's a there's a uh almost spiritual connection to it, uh, but it's not as strong or powerful than certain synthetics.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of perfumers or you know, brands are using synthetics because they make their fragrances enormous, if you will, very performing.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, personally, um sometimes I find that a bit overwhelming.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it prevents you from breathing freely, which natural ingredients will never do.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: When you have a fragrance that is full of natural ingredients, even if you use a little bit of synthetic, the feeling, it might not be as powerful, but the feeling you have is exactly what you described, Ecta, is that connection to nature, is that um, you know, aura around you of wellness and and and beauty that helps you, in my opinion, to have a more positive um uh day in your life.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, again, uh pros and cons for everything.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, and you know what's interesting, uh Veronique, is that I I often wonder, because I always gravitate more towards the very citrusy light fragrances.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know that you had mentioned in our first episode that they're very, they're they're the first ones, you know, those citrus notes and the light note, they're the first ones to evaporate, you know, in a fragrance and just and leave.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wonder if um some brands out there are, you know, if they create a fragrance that is very much uh kind of I guess centered around that, you know, those types of scents, if they're using these synthetic, you know, analogs to help boost that or keep it, you know, the longevity of it alive.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever seen that?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and so basically, would it be for citrus or any other scent, you can prolong through the usage of synthetics.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, synthetics are really cool if they are done in a way that is respectful of the environment and in a way that's respectful to the individual.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think synthetic really has a fantastic role to play in perfumery.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to me, you know, it is very important, for example, in my brand, that I use synthetics that are really about green chemistry.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And the more I go, the more I make sure that those are the only synthetics I'm using.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: That to me is essential.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to naturals, the drawback of naturals is, you know, we talked about the fact that natural ingredients are less powerful.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you will not have the same power.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: You still have something absolutely gorgeous and beautiful and long-lasting and rich and subtle on skin.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the other drawback sometimes with natural is that um compared to green chemistry, natural could be a teeny bit less sustainable because you deplete nature or because you use a lot of water to process.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when you use naturals, you have to be very careful that you put in place a process that is sustainable.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm doing in my brand.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love naturals because I think they connect you with nature, I think they really are richer and more subtle and they marry the skin of the individual that wears them.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you have a really unique experience when you wear a fragrance full of naturals.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um but because they could be a little depleting, I make sure that every natural I use is processed, harvested in a socially responsible way and in a sustainable way.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: That to me is absolutely essential.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so, for example, I use very little uh sandalwood because though I love that note sandalwood, sandalwood is a material that is you know that is starting to disappear from planet Earth.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: We need to replenish sandalwood, we need to give it time to replenish.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't use a lot of it, even though I love it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And every you know, natural I'm using are done in a socially responsible way and in a sustainable way.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is very, very important um because that way you have the best of both worlds.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you are so experienced as well.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, um, you know, with you with your brand, it's it's obviously something that consumers can expect.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you expect it to be the best of the best, you expect it to be done in the right way.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's very important to take heed to your message here for all of the entrepreneurs out there that might be launching fragrance lines, you know, is this idea of what Veroni just said is you have to be very ethical with the way that you're sourcing and the way that you're, you know, you're using synthetics.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would love for you to like give us some, for example, maybe some examples of how synthetics, you know, can be used improperly rather than the right way.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think with synthetics done improperly, you know, it's today the the industry is highly regulated.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you will not have synthetics that are unsafe.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so first of all, I want to reassure your public that today, if you are um following the regulation, it's called IFRA, EFRA.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you follow EFRA, you will never use any material that is unsafe.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so safety is a guarantee.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Beyond the idea of safety, then after that, it's a question of choices.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me, there are some synthetics I will never use because they are not biodegradable.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so so I need to make sure that if I use a synthetic, it is biodegradable.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another point.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's safe for the individual, is it safe for the planet?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um then it is a question of um sensation.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: I will never use a synthetic that is too heavy, that feels overwhelming on you as you take on your day or or you know, live your life.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Those synthetics sometimes are amazing to give you a ton of power, you know, to a fragrance.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that fragrance can be smelled a mile away.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if it is your gig, fine.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I think this is kind of a little obtrusive, it's a little too much.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't use those synthetics.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: They are not unsafe, they are perfectly safe, but it's a choice.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want someone to be overwhelmed by any fragrance that I would do.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's really a choice from the perfumer, from the fragrance house, and from the individual that wears them, you know.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh um, so that that that would be my my take on um, you know, synthetics.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, going kind of pivoting to the natural side of things, you know, I would love to understand, you know, how much of a fragrance is natural versus, you know, like so when you're crafting a new fragrance, you know, and you want obviously you want to lean towards the natural side, you know, what is that process like in terms of creating it in a blend, you know, like making sure that everything that you've used that is natural, all of the different notes are coming out, you know, how do you prevent it from being overpowered by one note versus the other?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does that work, the whole process?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: That that really is the creative process.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um it's not only the creative process, but it's also the um knowledge in terms of the technical aspects of perfumes.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, the creative process will be about you know, the story you want to tell or the sensation you want people to feel.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that will be a conversation with a perfumer, and you discuss that with them, and you say, Okay, I want you know this fragrance to make you feel like you're walking in the middle of the garrigue, which is the Mediterranean forest.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just giving you that example, correct?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and I want the person to feel the heat coming from the land.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I want the person to smell the aromatic plants all around them.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I want them to feel the warmth of the sand on their skin.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I want them to feel like, you know, almost like super sultry and seductive because it is warm and it and the skin shows off, and it's a moment for, you know, that that calls for, you know, um desire, you know.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So those are, let's say, the the idea, the sensation.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're gonna basically list the ingredients that will give you that sensation, that will tell that story.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Then you decide, okay, amber, let's say, is at the heart of that story because amber is gonna give you the warmth, amber is gonna give you the sexiness, amber will feel like the garrick.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: What do we use?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do we use a natural ingredient that will express it?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Do we use a synthetic ingredients or a combination of both?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then once you have the choices of ingredients, it's a matter of making them flow together beautifully.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to understand which is the one that you someone was gonna smell first and then second and third, and then last.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so you place your ingredients in such a way in your um formula that there will never be a gap.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you as a consumer or as a you know, wearer of that fragrance will feel that sensation without any um any gap, any whole, you know, you you it will be seamless for you.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: But that's really the talent of the creative and the expertise of the technician.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, one thing I've always wondered, Veronique, is about the um like, you know, how people, I don't know, there's a lot of misinformation on social media.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me to clarify that, I want to ask you about, you know, people say natural, sometimes natural fragrances, you know, they can be um people can have a reaction to them, but I don't think so, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there there's a there's a way that they're processed to where they're hypoallergenic.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what is you know, what is your experience with using the naturals and how people react, you know, in terms of like any allergies or anything like that?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: So allergies can come from anywhere, okay?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, you can be allergic to um a molecule in a detergent, you can be allergic to peanuts, so you could be allergic to either a synthetic material or a natural material.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: So there are ingredients in perfumery, like there is ingredients in food, like there is ingredients in uh you know life, that people are allergic to.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what we do um is listing on the packaging the ingredients that some people could be allergic to.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: We can't know for sure what millions of individuals will be allergic to, but the person who is allergic to something knows because she knows.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why we have that list of ingredients on the packaging.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Those ingredients can be sometimes pretty difficult to read because they're molecules and it some are synthetic, some are natural, but they are molecules.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I I, you know, I have to say sometimes it's a bit difficult for people to understand what it is, but there's hardly any other ways to do that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the one thing I would tell you also is that there's two kinds of possible reaction to um a natural ingredient.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: One is really an allergy, so you could be allergic to something.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you for example, some people can't eat strawberries, they're allergic to strawberries.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that can exist within a fragrance.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um but the other Another reaction is more what we call photosensibility.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: What is photosensibility?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Photosensibility is the reaction that an essential oil can create with the sun.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, you put an essential oil on your skin.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: You shouldn't do that, okay, but just for the sake of the experiment, you put an essential oil on the skin, certain essential oil will react if the sun comes to it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's sensibility.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: It will give you like a little stain on your skin.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why sometimes on our perfumes, on any perfumes, you have a little warning saying don't apply before going into the sun.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if you go to the beach, you know, sometimes some ingredients could have that reaction.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we say, be careful.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: This fragrance is fabulous, but don't apply it like you would apply a sunk care lotion.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the two kinds of reactions that you could have.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: But they are always indicated on the packaging.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And again, if you are following the EFRA regulation, you owe that to your public, your consumers, your client to indicate if there is such a risk.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: The risk is not, again, okay, an allergy, you could have a little reaction if you're allergic to something, you have to be careful.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: But it could be synthetic, it could be um natural.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Photosensibility is only with essential oils.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, because I've never had a bad reaction, you know, to any kind of rare.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Ecta is very, very, very rare.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: It exists.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot say it doesn't exist.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I will never lie to you, but it is extremely rare.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I can definitely see it being rare because I mean I have sensitive skin, I would say, and I, you know, I've never had a bad reaction to fragrance.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, fragrances and skincare, that's a whole different thing because that's something, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as perfumery goes, yeah, I've never had a bad reaction.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: But that's good to know, though.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm glad that you clarified that because I know people ask, you know, is it not if it's natural, is it going to make me allergic if they're allergic to something in nature?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then they wonder, you know, if the fragrance itself.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: So so we list the allergens on the packaging, but again, you know, it's it's it's difficult to know if you're not a an expert, what is what.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, um, probably if you know that you're allergic to certain things, uh, then you know, your doctor will probably have told you what it's called technically, you know.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And also these days you can get these tests done.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's the full panel of what you're allergic to.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that makes sense.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: But but again, with fragrance to your own tech, it is extremely rare.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And even more rare is a severe reaction.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: It will, it wouldn't be, you know.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to actually uh shift focus a little bit to the aromatherapy aspect of natural fragrances, Veronique, because I know that with your brand new line that you've come out with, aroma, I mean, it's a beautiful, beautiful line, and it's really around this idea of being, you know, it's therapeutic, you know.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's we discussed in our first episode.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's the idea of fragrance serving as a way of grounding people in terms of mental wellness, you know, and making you feel just better overall.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would love for you to speak about the aromatherapy benefits of fragrances, um, natural fragrances specifically.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: So so basically, any fragrance will act as a little pick-me-up if you like it, right?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: It will bring a smile to your face.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that is because it's just pleasure, you know.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: So if a if a fragrance uh suits your personality, it will make you smile.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in the context of my line Aroma and the crossroad between perfumery and aromatherapy, we went way further than just this little pick-me-up that fragrance can do.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why is I really wanted um people to feel better, not just good, but better.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And in that context, you have to follow the principle of aromatherapy.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: The principle of aromatherapy um is not just the scent make you feel good, it is really about ingredients that will act on your um psyche, on your mental uh situation, on your physicality.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And those ingredients have to be natural, otherwise, you can't call yourself aromatherapy.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's the main difference.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and those ingredients not only have to have been natural, but have to be certain type of natural that would truly act as a therapeutical effect on you.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the condition uh for uh you know aromatherapy are very different than the condition that exists in perfumery.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to call yourself aromatherapy, then you really have to follow the principle of aromatherapy, which starts with using only natural ingredients.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that's very, very, very important.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, what what are some of the things that you you just mentioned that you know you have to use very specific types of naturals if you want to do aromatherapy?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us examples?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so for example, you know, with aromatherapy, you need to use a high concentration of essential oils.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is an essential oil?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is a natural that it is um that is achieved through a process of distillation.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry to become very technical, but it's that's what I think.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's wonderful.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: I want the technical yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so in uh so essential oils is a certain type of natural ingredients, and those are the ones that really are gonna be immensely beneficial to you, and and that's what you have in aromatherapy, period.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you go to uh any site of aromatherapy or any uh, you know, what you'll have is what we call essential oils, and those are products that are issued from the distillation, that's what they are.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to use a very high concentration of essential oils in a natural fragrance to be able to be called aroma therapy, and that's what aroma is.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and at the same time, it is not just a blend of a few essential oils, we wanted it to become a real perfume, so something that is absolutely gorgeous to wear, absolutely uh fantastic, uh, you know, in it's in the pleasure it gives you.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you have both the benefits of aromatherapy, but also the pleasure of perfumery.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the boundaries of formulation were very tight.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's where, if you will, this line is so special, is that uh, you know, it it was not easy to achieve, I can assure you.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I can tell by uh having tried it, you know, it's a very beautiful, you know, you use the words of, you know, um fragrances blossom, right?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I whenever I've used your aroma line, I've always felt like my like for everyone listening, let me just give you my own, you know, example of how I use the line.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm very much into meditation.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I use it right before I meditate.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So while I'm meditating, it's helping me become present, it's helping me feel more like I'm grounded in something.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that the scent is what's grounding me.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that idea of you know what you said, Ronique, which is you know, the essential oils and they're lasting in a certain way, that makes sense to me because throughout my meditation, it's the scent is bringing me back to my my meditative process.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it does, it's almost working as like an adjunct to what I'm trying to accomplish, you know, through being present, through whatever it is, you know, even if you're doing something like yoga.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very, very interesting how you've crafted this line because it's you know, a lot of times people say natural fragrances or natural, you know, based fragrances don't last as long.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that, you know, the way that you've crafted it, the way you formulated it, it's such a beautiful experience and it lasts just as long as you need it to last, you know.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love, I would love to uh get your you know uh take on that is this idea of longevity when it comes to natural fragrances.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh thank you, Ekta.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, thank you for uh sharing your experience because really when I conceived those fragrances, I wanted for people to feel better.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And as you know, we've we've created um olfactive guided meditation for each of them, which is present in a QR code on every packaging of Aroma.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because Aroma is here to make you feel better, and if you associate it with a meditation, really to your point, you become present, you add joy to your day, you add peace of mind to your day, you add an understanding of who you are through your day.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's really, really special.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm happy that you've experienced it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when it comes to longevity, uh again, I think that you know, not to put a tap on my shoulder, but it it takes expertise, you know, and um we wanted those fragrances in Aroma to really give you those benefits, but at the same time give you an element of perfumery, which is long-lastingness, which is sillage, which is an addonistic approach to perfumery, a beauty in where.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we tried very hard to make it all happen, and at the same time, never dilute the benefits, the well-being benefits that they are supposed to give you.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's it's a matter of choosing uh the ingredients A, that will give you um the benefit, and B that will follow you throughout the time.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: So just to clarify, just to give you an exact example of how it works, for example, with heart, heart is about giving you joy, giving you um confidence, giving you positivity and optimism.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: The key ingredients that are going to give you the energy, the optimism, and the joy are citruses.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And to the point you were making before, citruses will evaporate quickly.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's you will smell them at the beginning.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we added also to that benefit the idea of giving you the courage to move forward, the ability to communicate better with others, okay, because it goes together with positivity and optimism and and joy.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And those ingredients are ingredients that you're gonna smell longer.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: For example, cedar wood is is chasing the anxiety.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: So chasing the anxiety helps you feel more positive, right?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um clarisage uh is something that balances your emotions.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it gives you a sense of a better um you know ability to um to deal with um you know with everything that comes at you during the day.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um we use um also other types of ingredients that will be felt a little later in the life cycle of the products, but altogether uh this product will give you joy, this product uh will give you positivity, this product will give you the courage to move forward.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, I completely agree with you, and I mean I can be your live testimonial to that because, like I said, I heart is actually my favorite one out of the line, you know, and it's so I absolutely adored that fragrance.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is just the most beautiful and well-crafted um scent I've ever used because it's so, so grounding for me.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is positivity, like you said, everything you said is everything I've experienced when I've used it, you know.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's truly yeah, no, it's true.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's true.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that really goes to, you know, show that, you know, you really have to be a master of your craft, you know.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm I'm so excited to be learning from you about this because I see firsthand everything you're explaining to me is this idea of okay, it will be fleeting, but then you have things that are, you know, they're prolonging the experience of joy and happiness.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, somebody I have anxiety.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's something that does help me with my anxiety as well, you know.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's definitely there, the results are there.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, one of my follow-up questions really is how does the process work for Unique as far as like distilling natural fragrances, you know, extracting them the correct way?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is that process for you like?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: So this is done really at the level of the land, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because if it's a natural ingredient, well, it comes from nature.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so um you have to know where to source those natural ingredients.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: For example, to continue on the principle of heart, right?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Best citruses, okay, bergamot, lemon, mandarin, orange, come from Calabria in Italy.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we work with farmers in Calabria, Italy to get the best ever quality of um of citruses.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: For citrus, the way that you get an essential oil is not distillation, it's called expression.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna give you just a quick, you know, uh tip for you to understand what expression of a citrus is.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: We all have citruses at home: a mandarin, an orange, a lemon, a lime, whatever you have at home.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Peel one of those citrus, okay?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Take the peel and press the peel in your fingers.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: You will have a little drop, little droplet of oil coming out of the peel.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking the rind, I'm not talking the white stuff, right?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really talking about the peel, the outside peel, the orange thing or the yellow or the green.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Press this and you'll have a little droplet coming out, and you will feel that droplet in your finger.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Smell your fingers.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is essential oil of citrus.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So this is how we express the essential oil of citrus.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we used in perfumery.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we do it at a bigger scale, but that's what we do.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that really is for citruses.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: For um other things, it's distillation.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, we put uh flowers or other plants in a big uh cube and we pour on it hot steam, right?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: The steam with the product will extract from the product the molecules that smell, and then we will make the steam travel in a you know a big unit, if you will, and then little by little we will cool down the steam to transform it back into a liquid, okay.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: That liquid at the end is a mix of what the steam is, which is water, and what the plant molecules are, which is oil.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, like when you do a turkey and you have gravy and you have the oil on the top and the watery base on the bottom, it's exactly the same thing in perfumery.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry for the image, but for you to understand.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oil is lighter than water, so the oil comes up, and the oil is basically what the plant has given us, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And now you can separate the oil from the water.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: The oil is basically the essential oil, the water that is left is called an hydrolate.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: In the context, for example, of a rose, okay, or orange blossom, the oil on top is basically the essential oil.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: So for orange blossom, this is what we call nehroli.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and the water substrate, the hydrolate, is basically called orange blossom water, and this is, for example, what we put in food, you know, to flavor some pastries.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's orange blossom water.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: In the context of rose, you know, the oil is essential oil of rose.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we're gonna use in perfumery.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: The water that is left is called rose water, and you can use in food or in cosmetics.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's so cool!
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wow, that's a so when you okay, so Bronique, when you see uh okay, so orange blossom and neoli, when you see them in the actual perfume, it's written there.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the two different things coming from the same extraction, then.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, what you call neoli is the orange blossom issued from um distillation.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: When you see orange blossom absolute, uh or orange flower absolute, it's the natural ingredient but coming from another process called extraction, different type of process.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, in aromatherapy, we use a high concentration of essential oils.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: In perfumery, you can use both.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, you can use synthetics that mimic the orange blossom.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so cool.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a cool, that's such a wonderful explanation, too.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just I learned something.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's exactly why, you know, I'm so excited that we're doing this series with you because you are the master.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, that's that's very interesting.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been this has been wonderful, Veronique.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited, and I'm so excited about this series because you know, just like this episode for everyone listening, we're going to have such amazing insight and just knowledge coming, you know, from the series.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I really encourage everybody for now, stay tuned.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you loved this first episode of the series.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely go check out the aroma line by Veronique.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's truly, like I've said many times, a master in this, you know, specific area.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot get better than her.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: So check out the aroma line.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: My favorite is the heart scent, and I just adore it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful, and I really encourage everybody, you know, really check it out and just stay tuned for brand new episodes in the series.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, thank you, Ingta.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, everybody.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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• 41:40
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• 42:39
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