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Income Independence Coaching with Steve Selengut #6190 · Financial Survival Network

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You don't want to go into ventures that where you
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: can lose everything. You want to broaden your diversification, so
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: you want to have high quality types of investments which
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: themselves are diversified and well managed, actively managed and so on.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: A diversified portfolio, let's say, of diversified portfolios. So it's
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: a fund type environment.
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  Speaker 2: You are listening to Carrie Let's's Financial Survival Network where
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial
• 0:35
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  Speaker 2: Survival Network now more than.
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  Speaker 3: Ever, and welcome.
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  Speaker 4: You are listening to and watching the Financial Survival Network.
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  Speaker 4: I'm your host, Carrie Let's. Well a investing in the
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  Speaker 4: he's perilous times, definitely risky or it can be. You
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  Speaker 4: need a focus strategy that will keep you safe and
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  Speaker 4: keep the money flowing. And that's why we have a
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  Speaker 4: special guest for you today. He is known as the
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  Speaker 4: Income Coach. He's been doing this for forty years. His
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  Speaker 4: name is Steve sellingut State. It's great to have you
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  Speaker 4: on the show. So how did you become the income coach?
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  Speaker 1: Well, Carrie, it's a I guess it's a long story.
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  Speaker 1: I actually became a private portfolio manager back in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: seventy nine when I started a business where I was
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  Speaker 1: managing portfolios for other people in addition to my own.
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  Speaker 1: And then that kind of grew up for forty years
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  Speaker 1: until I finally sold that business in May of twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty three, almost two years already, and wrote the book
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  Speaker 1: called Retirement Money Secrets, And with that I developed an
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  Speaker 1: income coaching business, and I actually going, you know, income
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  Speaker 1: independence coaching, or I try, I try to bring people
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  Speaker 1: to a point where it doesn't really matter which way
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  Speaker 1: the market goes or which way interest goes, their income
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  Speaker 1: will keep right on growing regardless. And uh, it's what
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  Speaker 1: I call income independence.
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  Speaker 3: Interesting.
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  Speaker 4: Interesting, And so how do you achieve this income independence?
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  Speaker 3: Here?
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  Speaker 4: It sounds great, but if it isn't practical, then what
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  Speaker 4: good is it?
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  Speaker 3: Right?
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  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, it's it's it's simple and maybe a little
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  Speaker 1: complicated at the same time. The simple principle.
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  Speaker 3: Are four.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, basically, what you want to do is, particularly
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: as you get older, you want to try to minimize
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: your financial risk as much as possible. You don't want
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to go into ventures that where you can lose everything.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: You want to broaden your diversification, so you want to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: have high quality types of investments which themselves are diversified
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and well managed, actively managed and so on. A diversified portfolio,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: let's say, of diverse fied portfolios. So it's a fund
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  Speaker 1: type environment, but not your normal fund type of environment.
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  Speaker 1: I don't use mutual funds, and I only use a
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  Speaker 1: select a few ETFs, and then only for very large
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: client portfolios do I recommend them. So, and then there
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  Speaker 1: are two other items. The third item that you want
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  Speaker 1: to make sure of is that you have significant income
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  Speaker 1: and a growing amount of income coming into portfolio. And
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  Speaker 1: the fourth and final thing is that you don't just
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  Speaker 1: sit back and set it and forget it, like perhaps
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  Speaker 1: phaps your advisor wants you to, but you take profits
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  Speaker 1: when they appear. The stock market doesn't always it goes up. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: it has gone up, yes over the over the decades,
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  Speaker 1: but it hasn't been a straight line and it will
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  Speaker 1: probably never be a straight line. And when a price
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  Speaker 1: of a security goes up, I take my profits and
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  Speaker 1: I move on to another one. It might be a
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  Speaker 1: quite similar one. It might even be the same one
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  Speaker 1: within a reasonable number of days. But I constantly take
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  Speaker 1: my profits, thus adding to the capital that I have
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  Speaker 1: that produces the income that I'm trying to grow.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, So, like you said, the market always goes up,
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  Speaker 4: but enough of the tree does not grow to the sky.
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  Speaker 1: Right depends right now, it's right about the sky in
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  Speaker 1: the stock market, but not the bond market.
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  Speaker 4: But anyway where you can only go so far, so
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  Speaker 4: far exactly, so forty years of experience, knowing what you
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  Speaker 4: know now, if you could go back to your your
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  Speaker 4: fifteen year old self when you started in the business,
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  Speaker 4: and tell yourself what you've learned, what to avoid, give
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  Speaker 4: yourself one piece of advice.
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  Speaker 3: What would it be? What would it be?
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  Speaker 1: The main thing I wish I had done sooner in
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  Speaker 1: my career, and that would go back to when I was, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: thirty four or so or twenty five when he actually
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  Speaker 1: started investing, would have been to discovered closed end funds sooner.
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  Speaker 1: If I had done that, I would be worth multiples
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  Speaker 1: of what I am today.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, which I'm sure is not insubstantial. So you'd be
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  Speaker 4: worth even more, all right, Closed end funds. I know,
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  Speaker 4: there's something about them. Sometimes they trade, you know, there
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  Speaker 4: were funds that were set up on like mutual funds,
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  Speaker 4: where there's a fixed number of ship nothing else gets issued,
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  Speaker 4: and then they go out and they buy securities whatever
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  Speaker 4: it might be, whatever the name of the fund was,
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  Speaker 4: that's what they would buy. And oftentimes these closed end
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  Speaker 4: funds sold the discounts to the underlying stock portfolio that
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  Speaker 4: they owned, which was like if they were a Dow
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  Speaker 4: s and P five hundred closed end fund, you could
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  Speaker 4: buy the SNP at sometimes a ten to twenty percent discount.
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  Speaker 4: I don't think that happens so much anymore, right, So,
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  Speaker 4: like that's obvious, right, So how did people miss this?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, there's a couple other things about closed end
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  Speaker 1: funds that are important to appreciate. They're different from the
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  Speaker 1: other funds out there, and you just pointed out one
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  Speaker 1: significant one that they don't have. The their price isn't
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  Speaker 1: manipulated to equal their net asset value every day like
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  Speaker 1: they are with ETFs and.
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  Speaker 3: Mutual funds.
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  Speaker 1: But the other significant difference is that they are required
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  Speaker 1: as passed through trusts, which is what they are created as,
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  Speaker 1: to give ninety five percent of their net earnings to
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  Speaker 1: their shareholders. So they're a different breed of animal. They're
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  Speaker 1: not designed to grow in market value, not designed to
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  Speaker 1: grow in price. They're designed to produce income for their shareholders.
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  Speaker 1: It's in an ideal world, this is the way stocks
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  Speaker 1: and the stock market would behave a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: closely to this, where they would pay their shareholders at
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  Speaker 1: a rate that somehow relates to what they pay their
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  Speaker 1: chief executive.
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  Speaker 3: Those questions for you, Steve, how do you pay that out?
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  Speaker 4: Did they pay it out and it's a stock divin end,
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  Speaker 4: they pay it out as cash?
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  Speaker 3: Can you reinvest that? And we're talking just how do they.
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  Speaker 4: Pass along these profit But so are they trading profits
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  Speaker 4: or dividends?
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  Speaker 3: How does that work?
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  Speaker 1: They're both. They're trade they're trading profits, they're they're premiums
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  Speaker 1: on options, trading in some instances, their dividends, their interests
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  Speaker 1: and principle on mortgages for example, and so forth, all
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  Speaker 1: kinds of different securities inside. They typically pay monthly distributions
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  Speaker 1: and the current the current rates right now, at today's
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  Speaker 1: prices are a little over ten percent for income focused
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  Speaker 1: ones and nine percent or better in the stock market.
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  Speaker 4: So I like that ten percent, So you're basically maybe
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: you're keeping up with the true rate of inflation, not
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: the stuff that they're telling us.
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  Speaker 1: But right, except for good restaurants, I think you probably are.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, so close. Influence are different in in in
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  Speaker 1: those ways and the and their biggest difference, of course
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  Speaker 1: is they throw off a lot more income. So there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of chances, uh, to reinvest it. You can
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  Speaker 1: read it, you reinvest it automatically. But I'm not a
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  Speaker 1: big believer in automatic reinvestment. I like to do it selectively.
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  Speaker 1: I don't like to buy. I don't like to buy
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  Speaker 1: into a security at a price higher than my cost
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  Speaker 1: basis for that security. I like to particularly with these,
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  Speaker 1: if you reinvest selectively, you can you can pick to
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  Speaker 1: add to ones that are down in price, so you
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  Speaker 1: can actually increase your yield while reducing the cost basis overall.
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  Speaker 1: And one of the strategies I use.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, we're not asking you for advice here, even though
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  Speaker 4: I know you're licensed and all that. But Well says
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  Speaker 4: a few examples of of such funds.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, recommending, Yeah, I'm not.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not recommending. There there are I'm gonna give you out,
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  Speaker 1: I like, I'm gonna give you some numbers here, okay,
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  Speaker 1: on I call these, I call my the spreadsheet I
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  Speaker 1: use to choose my you know, the ones I've selected
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  Speaker 1: from a website called cef connect, which lists and analyzes
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  Speaker 1: all four or five hundred of them. I've selected one
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  Speaker 1: hundred and one hundred and five or so that are
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  Speaker 1: income focused, that invest in things preferred stocks, bonds, mortgages,
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  Speaker 1: et sea, and I And there's over one hundred of them.
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  Speaker 1: For example, black Rock a black Rock Floating rate fund,
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  Speaker 1: black Rock Blackstone Long and Short fund, and then there's
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  Speaker 1: calamos and the symbols on those which well, these are
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  Speaker 1: not recommendations. I'm being forced to tell you these names.
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  Speaker 1: But there are over one hundred of them, and these
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  Speaker 1: are just samples. The black Rock fund called BGT that
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  Speaker 1: you could look up at cf connect, the Cowa Moost
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  Speaker 1: Fund CHI you could look it up at seef connect
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  Speaker 1: and see what you think about it. I would not
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  Speaker 1: buy anything unless you do complete amount of researcher on it.
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  Speaker 4: Hey, so that's a quick question for you. Because these
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  Speaker 4: things kind of came up in the twenties. I think
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  Speaker 4: they started.
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  Speaker 1: The eighteen twenties.
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  Speaker 3: Eight.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, they've been around, so I know they've been around
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  Speaker 4: for a long long time. Where are they still making
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  Speaker 4: any new ones?
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  Speaker 3: Here?
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  Speaker 4: They are doing it? What may get a higher fee
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  Speaker 4: for these these companies? The fund managers? They get a
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: hire yes, sure right.
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  Speaker 1: The managers charges that they put on the website, and
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  Speaker 1: each one which we never pay. You know, all the
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  Speaker 1: all the yields I mentioned are net of all expenses. Right,
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  Speaker 1: they do charge you know, two and a half three
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  Speaker 1: four percent, sometimes too much to be included the government.
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  Speaker 1: Uh like they're not going to be in your four
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  Speaker 1: to one k. Of course, the government won't let anything
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  Speaker 1: in there over two.
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  Speaker 4: Percent really, So so I'm just looking at one here
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  Speaker 4: that I just popped up at random, the new Vene
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  Speaker 4: Real Estate Income Fund. It's total market value two hundred
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  Speaker 4: and twenty one million, distribution rate eight point nine percent,
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  Speaker 4: which means if you put in one hundred bucks, you
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  Speaker 4: get eight dollars and ninety cents back, And it's trading
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  Speaker 4: at a discount to net asset value of ten point
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  Speaker 4: two percent. It's expense ratio they're really high, three point
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  Speaker 4: sixty four percent. Is this something I should think about?
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely?
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  Speaker 4: What's the the symbol or why'd you ask me that?
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: Hold on a second, let me find it. Ah, let's see.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Of course it's a sponsored company. I'm just looking at Kiplinger.
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  Speaker 4: Let's see what we got here. Let's do a little
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Google search here, and uh darn it, give me one
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: second here, really pretty good at this, stupid sorry, I'm
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: doing this like real time here, so yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Me me too, And I'm gonna look at it and
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  Speaker 1: see if connected.
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  Speaker 3: Tell me. Here we go J j R S j
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  Speaker 3: R s Y S j R S.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, j R S is is as you might have guessed,
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  Speaker 1: it's on my list. Oh okay, and I've traded it
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  Speaker 1: for many, many years. But if you look at it,
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  Speaker 1: you just you just mentioned a couple of the basics,
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  Speaker 1: but you can click on. If you look at the distributions,
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  Speaker 1: you'll see that it's paying a regular quarterly distribution since
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  Speaker 1: at least two thousand and two.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's a good thing, right, Yeah, it's twenty
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  Speaker 4: three years.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So when you look at it and you're doing your
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: research on any of these funds, which you must do,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you want to look at the distribution history over time. Okay,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you want to look at what's inside this particular one.
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  Speaker 1: It's in real estate, so it owns stocks of some
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: companies and preferred stocks of other real estate companies. It
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: has only eighty five positions in it, which I'm saying
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: only that's a lot of different companies, you know, so
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  Speaker 1: your diversification, your investment is pretty safe. And you can
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  Speaker 1: also find that's fifteen nineteen twenty five thirty about thirty
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  Speaker 1: five percent of the portfolio is invested in the top
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  Speaker 1: ten companies, so thirty five in ut and sixty five
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: which with less than two percent invest of the assets.
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  Speaker 1: So it would be comfortable. It would certainly be. In
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  Speaker 1: addition to most of my portfolios. This one happens to
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: be since it's mostly stock, I consider it in equity fund,
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  Speaker 1: not an income fund. Okay, but still at that yield,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: it's a nice nice thing.
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  Speaker 4: To be in investing in reates and stuff like that. Yes,
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  Speaker 4: so these fund's been around, a lot of them, you're
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  Speaker 4: investing in a long time. Do you only buy them
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  Speaker 4: at a discount or you buy them at par or
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: will you pay a premium for them?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I you have to understand that these let me
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: ask you, let me put it in another way. Do
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: you care what the intrinsic value of a share of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Microsoft is.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Well, it seems for changeable, do.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: You think, But but do you think it trades it?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: It's about its book value. There isn't There isn't a
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: stock out there that trades the book value. Those infos
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: business those in funds are exactly the same. They are
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a function of supply and demand. For let's say a
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: real estate investment that paygy eight percent, you know there's
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: more supply than demand. It's it's going to trade at premium.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Otherwise it's going to play a discount. But let's talk
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: another thing. The securities that make up all the all
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the shares of these companies, that make up the net
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  Speaker 1: asset value. Some of them are interest rates sensitive, particularly
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in the income sector. So you could have a fund
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  Speaker 1: which has a thousand different treasury in it, you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: guaranteed by the federal government. If interest rates go up
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: substantially or even a little bit from what they were
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: issued at, they're going to trade on the markets. They're
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: going to trade below they're.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: A face valor.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: So the net asset value is going to go down,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and it could go down substantially, and at that point
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you'd say Okay, if if more, if there's more demand
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: for that fund now that it's paying eight percent at
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: this discount, you know, this internal discount, that demand might
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: actually pull the price of this stock above that asked
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: value when all the securities inside of it are trading
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: at a discount.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: So, but like you've been studying these things for forty
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: years now, when you see them at a discount, is
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: that an alarm bell or red flag? Or is that
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: a good thing? Or it's irrelevant?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I consider it irrelevant, okay, because it's the natural state
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of affairs. It depends on the prices of all the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: securities inside that fund, and everything from the situation in
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the Middle East to you know, planes flying into buildings.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Two problems at the border are going to impact the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: prices of the securities out there being bought and sold
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: every day in the financial markets. So I and I
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: don't buy securities to keep them. I consider securities differently
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: than most people. I have, Like I said, in my
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: own portfolios and in the portfolios that I manage for
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: people for all those years, I had a lot of
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: positions in each of them, and I treated those positions
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: just as I would if I were running a department store,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and I had all these goods and services on my
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: shelves people would want, and I'd have I'd had a
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: markup on them of where I would take my profit.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I would sell these things. And that's how I operated
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: an investment portfolio. So if we if I have that
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: JRS in my my portfolio and I assign that I
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: have a five percent markup on it, and I can
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: sell it at a five percent profit, I'm going to
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: do that sale immediately, and I'm going to buy another
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: closed end fund that has similar securities or maybe even not,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and put it into my portfolio, onto my shelves of
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: my department store, and put a markup of that five
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: percent on that one, and hold it only until it
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: goes up in that price, and then I'm gonna sell it.
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  Speaker 1: So some of these things I might be I might
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: be holding these things a matter of days or.
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  Speaker 4: A matter of my So I like in the system here,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: So what kind of returns have you realized over time
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: using this?
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  Speaker 1: I you know, I my my standard thing is that
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: ten percent a year in actual realize gains in my
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: working capital are reasonable expectation Because I know I'm I
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: typically don't I don't. I won't even buy a closed
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: in fund is plus it's pay an over six percent,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and that's under any market conditions, even when interest rates
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: are in the zero area like they were recently. So
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I know I'm going to do that, and I know
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to trade. For example, this year, I have
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: seven months income the equivalent of seven month income just
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: in capital gains this year.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you're not even though you're an income coach,
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: you're not really holding on to it for the income,
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: are you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I'm doing both. I mean there's two stream There are
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: two streams of income. Stream. One is the distributions. And
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: let's say we go into a twenty twenty two or
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: worse and the market goes down for eighteen twenty four months,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the income from the distributions is going to pretty much
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: remain the same. The profit taking opportunities are going to
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: be few and far between. So you may have years
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: where you're relying strictly on the income from the distributions
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and without the bonus of the capital gains that you
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: can either spend or reinvest. So it's not always as
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: good or as easy as it was this year.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Well, so twenty twenty one was he figure out you're opportunistic, Right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how many times have you seen let's say you
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: invest in the stock market and you hold them, you know,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the even the fang stocks or the Dow forty or
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: wherever it is you own them, how many times have
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: you seen them being a great big ego building profit
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: or ego building profit position and then it disappears like
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: it did in nineteen eighty seven and two thousand, two
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight, March of twenty twenty. It happens all
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the time. There are always corrections, and my goal is to,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: you know, to leave as little as possible on the table.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: So you figure you're shooting for ten percent return on
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: your portfolio annually, I.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Expect to make a ten I don't use the word
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: return in the industry. Return means the change, you know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the growth in the market value.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Right, you're saying total return.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: And that's total return market gaining market value plus any
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: income you received. I'm saying gain in working capital mean
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: an amount of amount of money I have invested in
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the securities in my portfolio, and that that grows by income, production, deposits,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and profits.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: So is this something you want to put like into
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: a retirement account.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: You're not paying taxes on it.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's perfect, particularly in a roth ira. I mean,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: if you can put ten income producing securities in a
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: roth ira, even if you don't take the profits, it's
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: going to double every seven seven and a half years.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Right, great, if you get added even two.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Or three percent in profits each year, it's a virtual
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: gold mine. Much put it in a rawira. Exactly have
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: money machine?
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: All right? Well, I like it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: Steve, tell us where we find you, how we connect
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: with you on the interwebs.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: The interweps. The best place to do it is to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: pay the cheap price of ten dollars or twenty dollars
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: for the Retirement Money Secrets Book, and it'll tell you
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: where you can go, how you should approach it, where
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: you can go to find these types of security and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: research them, and also how to contact me if you
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: want help. And my website is the Incomecoach dot net.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: All right, excellent, Well, we really appreciate you coming on here.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: Got any questions for Steve or myself? Shooting me an
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: email klatcarrieluts dot com and the link is in the
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: show notes to his book. And while you're there on
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: financial survival network dot com. Please sign up for your
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: free newsletter. Steve been a real pleasure. Thank you so
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: much for coming by.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Carrie, good talking to you.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network, your
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Now more than ever,