Latest / 2nd City Gridiron / Bears Banter Ep. 244: Mega Training Camp Preview with Zack Pearson! Part 2: Defense and Special Teams!

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Bears Banter Ep. 244: Mega Training Camp Preview with Zack Pearson! Part 2: Defense and Special Teams! · 2nd City Gridiron

• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, welcome back into the podcast.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is of course, Bear's Banner are annual training camp preview.
• 0:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the second year in the row that we are doing it with the bear reports.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Zach Pearson of course, follow him at on Twitter and socials at Zach Pearson ZAC.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: K. Zach Pearson and he's back for part two.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Zach Bill Zimmerman, how you doing?
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: doing good man doing good right for for some football here and we're getting real close.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are just we are just a day or two away from from training camp or it might even have started depending on when people have downloaded and listening to this podcast.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you had if you didn't listen to part one or watch it on YouTube make sure you go back and listen to part one about a one hour podcast totally focused on Ben Johnson in the offense and now part two we're going
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: but this defensive line, which we know was the weak point on the team last year, a lot of expectations from fans and from media that they were going to do something with this defensive line, maybe at a significant free agent, maybe first round pick and no one's complaining about Dylan Theoneman, but you know, maybe they go defensive tackle or defensive end in round one.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't do that.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They basically are rolling back the same defensive line they had last year, Neville Gallamore in for Andrew Billings, but pretty much the same key guys.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just kind of just say this bluntly, Zach, was that a mistake?
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think so in the grand scheme of things, but also, I will say for what I know, they were not high on this class.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: This draft class at all in terms of defensive line, you know, edge rush help.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: They thought it was, you know, outside the top guys that went early, they thought it was a poor draft class.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they, you know, I will give Ryan Bolsgrad, they did not,
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, straight away from their strategy.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: They did not reach on a guy that they didn't feel like would fit them instead.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: They took another need with, you know, which is fine.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, I say it's a mistake because I just don't know how much better it can get.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we look at it, you know, a lot of people,
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: were disappointed in my test sweat.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought he had a fine season.
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was pretty damn good last shot.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have a problem with sweat.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with then what he, you know, it's credit for.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But after that man, there's a lot of questions like you're alive and awesome.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Booker take the next step.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to get from from Dio?
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: What else are you going to get from that defensive line?
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: They got to be better at stopping the run.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, just I got to see it, but I think it's a little bit of a mistake in terms of maybe
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: some free agent guys or things like that they could have gone after potentially.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I spent a lot of time on this in kind of March and early April about how the bears are managing the salary cap.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't, you know, I know that.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm shifter the bears are broke kind of thing.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the bears are broke.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think at the same time, and I don't know if it was George McCaskey.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it was Ryan Polls just sitting there not like in the idea.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like I looked at the Zack and said, Grady, Jarrett, and Dio, Dengbo.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Montes has sweat if you want.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they should.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: all three of those guys could be removed from the salary cap after this season with not too much dead cap.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: But especially with Jared and Odango, which I almost think is in less something wild happens with with them this year.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're almost certainly off the books next year.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of sat there and said, they really could overspend on the defensive line for 2026 if they wanted to because it was easily corrected in 2027 if they brought in a solid free agent, you know, a guy making 15 to 20 million dollars a year.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: or make a big swing for a Dexter Lawrence or a Max Cross but you're something like that.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But they didn't choose to do it.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think, you know, just based on your experience at How Is Hall, you think this was more of a football operations decision about not
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: trying to in essence borrow from the future.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a problem with it because the salary cap is exploding right now.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to renegotiate these TV rights in the couple of years and it's going to explode even more.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't have a problem borrowing from the future.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the bears did.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was a limit on George McCasky.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Things are tied up with the stadium and they got a
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: giant Caleb Williams extension coming next season.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he wasn't comfortable, you know, allocating extra cash for this year.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think the bears made the decision?
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That just for the defensive line, but even at left tack on some of the other positions we've talked about, not opening up more cap space for this year.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it could be like a player by a player basis.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like a, for example, Max Crosby.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think they want to give up that much draft capital to get them from what we saw and then what happened with bolts more.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe they shock us, whatever.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're like a guy like Jalen Phillips got a huge deal of Carolina on the flip side of that.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's had a double digit sex season.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of money for potential.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess to answer your question, I think this is a little bit of everything.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they didn't really want to risk their future in terms of, we know how important graph capitalists to Ryan Polls.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, you look, they polls might not have got the OK to go out and spend big knowing what's coming down the line with Caleb Williams or
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, even Luther Burr and Colson love them guys like that.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm a flip side of it.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you set it like the cap is just exploding like every time it just goes up and up and up.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you you got to find ways.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: To free yourself and be able to make these moves on the line.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was just kind of a little bit of both honestly and I just don't think Ryan polls was.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: comfortable with the guys that were out there, like I don't think he was really in untray Hendrickson as as much, you know, I don't think so either because he's not a great run defender, what Dennis Allen loves on the edge, so that was my thought.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Dexter Lawrence is probably the guy, I mean, I wouldn't have had an issue with that, the I just don't think they just won the spend and go over it at this point right now.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I want to ask you about Grady Jarrett because I think a lot of bear's fans, and myself included, I hadn't watched Grady Jarrett much the last couple of years when that signing came down.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We know who Grady Jarrett was, and I don't have the numbers in front of me 2021, maybe 2022, when he was a dominant force disruptor in the middle of a defense.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of bear's fans, they know the name Brady Jarrett, the bear's signum, and said they're going, oh, wow, we got, we got a great, great interior defender.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was my first reaction as well.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I went back and watch some of the tables like, ah, he might have lost a step here, and potentially maybe he lost another step in 2025, but he was another guy that was battling injuries.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jarrett, he's got an advanced age, he might be retiring soon.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know exactly what the future holds for Grady Jarrett, but the bears really need him to rebound.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not saying he needs to be the Grady Jarrett of old, but he really needs to be a more of a consistent force that at least is drawn some double teams and do in more than he did last season.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, not run Dave Francis the Hall was not very good last year.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the Jared signing to me, it was fine at the time, and again,
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: fathered by injuries, fathered time, always wins to it, catches it up to you.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it was just a little bit of that, like you can't see him in the locker room, you know, not getting treatment, but you know, he could tell he was by playing through something tough and it was taking a toll on him.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, he doesn't have to be that dominant player or star player or even to the level he was once was.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's just, to me, he's got to be good enough to just at least make more of an impact.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think at times last year we saw a little bit of that, not as consistent or as much as you wanted to in terms of what you paid them and what you were,
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: essentially expecting from him when you signed him.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, what they did this year, they brought in what?
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: 4 to 5, 6 defensive linemen between frequency and the draft.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of tells me it's going to be more of a rotation with a bunch of guys on the defensive line.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think honestly, that might help Jared.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: He won't have to be out there as much to the time as you can kind of use them.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: How Dennis Allen wants to use them?
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he, you know, he's got to play a little better.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't, you know, I don't think, I don't think he sees as the pressure is totally on him this year.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of like, I don't think the bear's expecting like I said to be a superstar.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that that kind of might help him too.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, just, but even have him on that line for veteran presence is important, but you got to see the production as well to make it worth it.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think everything you said there is fair and and let me ask you about Javon Dexter because my my stance on Dexter has always been I think he would be a phenomenal Rotational third defensive tackle because I think you could even stick him out on the outside sometimes three tech you know one tech.
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you could move Dexter all over the defensive line.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he'd be, and still playing 50, 60% of the snaps, but in that more of that rotational role, bears don't have that kind of defensive line, so he's, I think, almost certainly going to be a starter over Neville Gallo, more and starting next to Tech's to Grady Jarrett.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dexter's entering the fourth year of his deal.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anyone's expecting Dexter to get an extension here before the season starts.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: more potentially at all and maybe he leaves after this season.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think this coaching staff used Javan Dexter and do you think there is a potential for him to step up and take another step forward or is who Dexter has been the last couple years who the bear should expect to see this season?
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think he was terrible by any means last year.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, but he also wasn't at the level that Yeah, I hope for like you could live with the rookie here the year two he needs to make the leap Just didn't happen year three.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he got a little better, but again, he was not at
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: draft him the second round, you know, you were hoping you could be a force on your defensive line.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you could kind of use him in different spots.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll be curious maybe they try that this year.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think they what you said starting him alongside great gerads probably the plan.
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, unless he takes a master leap, I think this
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: dominate.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot as the numbers last year was he had like seven eight sacks maybe?
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, something like that.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean that's you'll take that that's that's not terrible and where would they have been without the you know that in terms of the defensive line?
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: What have been probably worse?
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do think he's got to take that step forward and I'm curious like if some more Turner would have stayed healthy all year, how would they have used those guys on the line?
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we'll get a better look at this here.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Dennis Allen has a different plan for him.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't really gotten much from Dennis on that just yet.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd be curious to see how they they rotate these guys in the defensive line.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they tried Dexter a little bit outside at times.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, correctly, if I'm wrong, I think
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: coming out of Florida, you know, he's definitely asked to do different things at Florida than here in Chicago, and that was the bait I went play getting off the snap and all that stuff.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think he even had a quote like, there was times of Florida, they want him to drop back a little bit or something like that, maybe in coverage or get a late start, I don't know what it was, I have to go back and look, but it just seemed kind of like,
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: a guy that need to find the perfect role in the NFL and maybe was being played out of place at Florida.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't really figured that out just yet.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, he's got to take a major jump this year.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think it does all the right things in terms of
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: identifying what he needs to get better at and you see him post the workout clips and he's working out with these guys and he's getting better and faster, but yeah, we got to see it now on the field consistent too.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for the record, Dexter, six sacks last year, five in 2024.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So 11 sacks over the last two years, which pretty good from it from an interior, but, you know, there's there's, you know, point of attack on runs.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: There could be some better things that went, but again, overall.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a, he's a good player.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, yeah, can he be, can he reach that next level?
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, let me, you brought up Austin Booker earlier.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got, we got to talk about Austin Booker for a minute because Well, I would be shocked if he's not a starter over Dio Dengbo.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know Dengbo's got the contract, but I don't think the bears are going to care.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're going to put the best player out there.
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be shocked if it's if it's a Dengbo over Booker.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, I mean, Booker is an interesting guy.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know he was a fifth round pick, but a lot of people said if he had another year of development at Kansas, he could have been probably like a second round pick level, this kind of year.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of people like what Booker was putting on tape and college, and it's been pretty good so far.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: He definitely took some steps forward last season, but there's still some holes in his game.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: do you think Austin Booker has what it takes to be, you know, an every day starting defensive end in this league?
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: As, you know, a number two, I don't think Calaverate's the number one dominant bass rusher.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you get what you get on Montez sweat and Austin Booker's a good two, I think you're taking that.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: The issue with Booker is, you know, he had a big preseason.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: and then it gets hurt.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of, in my opinion, hinders this development a little bit, because I think, for the end of the year, I think he was playing a lot better, you know, that green bay game, which, you know, people, they go to dirty, I don't think it goes to dirty hit, I just think it goes on in a unfortunate situation, um, or the helmets, you know, one player put his helmet down, the other put his helmet down, and just it happens.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he plays with an aggressive mindset that you love, and I think he can get out for the quarterback.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got to work on some moves, I think his power's got to be a little bit, he's got to be a little bit stronger, I think he's got to bulk up a little bit.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you get to that, I think as a two, he's a good option.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is he a guy you're banking on to be your two for five, six, seven years?
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but I think he can give you a couple of years of that.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree, I think he's going to be the number two guy in this year.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he'll be ahead of Dio.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he'll rotate the two or put Dio in at times for sweat, what are you going to like getting sweat out at times?
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do think Austin Booker can be a dominant too.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just got to stay healthy man and be consistent, that's just kind of the one thing we haven't seen from them.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, let me ask you about a couple more defensive linemen before we jump back to the linebacker group.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you brought up Turner there and who he could potentially be.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously another guy that dealt with injuries last year.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, it didn't seem like Turner was generating a lot of buzz before the injuries when he was playing.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that was like, is he going to be on the outside or is he going to be on the inside?
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where is the future hold from what you've seen from Turner over, you know, the last, you know, year plus and in practices and in the little, you know, amount of playing time he's had, what is Turner?
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there is there hope there?
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And is this guy a guy who's going to be playing outside or inside or do you not know?
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think there's always hope I don't think you want to write off a draft pick after a year, anything like that.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're still trying to figure out where they want to play on.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think we're going to see a scenario where I'm going to try them inside.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try them outside.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're probably going to have some quote unquote NASCAR packages.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: What to see?
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could tell me right now I play outside and I can be like, okay, let's try my outside, but I can also see him playing inside.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one of those things where we're going to have to kind of wait until he gets out there and is full of go, you know, that injury, he plugs with violence.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the bear's really liked that, but again, you know, the injury definitely took a toll on a master and and hampered his development.
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you're already behind as a rookie and then you get hurt.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's entering camp behind again.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to have to have some ground to make up in a hurry to make an impact this year.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, like if they want to play on the outside, there's not a lot of competition out there.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, they have the top three, but after that, there is a spot on the outside to ... Because hearty's really special teams out there.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's outside a hearty.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not much, it shouldn't be hard for turn to get a shot at the number four spot.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the last one I want to ask you about is Jordan Vandenberg.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, six round pick doesn't have high expectations.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't usually, you know, it's tough to find defensive linemen, late in the draft except for nose tackles.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're going to bet on a guy, bet on a guy like Vandenberg with his athleticism, his brass score, what he has going for.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's an interesting idea that the bears have to see what they can get with him with an essence to seventh round picks is what they traded to get into that slot.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: did you see anything?
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's tough to watch any kind of offensive defensive lineman in in in OTAs and in many camp, but anything you saw from van and bird or speaking with him that that that might be interesting for various fans.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, he's got the motor, I think.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he definitely works hard and he's definitely relentless in place with the whistle.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing and when her power mentioned it, I kind of like went back, I had the the drill on my phone that
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when her power mentioned, I look back and I'm like, wow, yeah, but I think he's mentioned he was a little bit slow need to work on that get off, in terms that drill now.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We get to see it out there with pads.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have not seen it with pads.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he improves on it.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's something he's going to have to work on.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, you're not expecting to come in.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we've fallen in love with these guys that have the rasp scores and have the college production.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this guy's going to be a steal.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That guy's going to be a steal.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: When reality is a lot of times, it doesn't work out.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a guy maybe,
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: you can plug in and play here in there and you can maybe learn from grading Jarrett and develop.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I'd be shocked if he really made the big impact this year.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got a lot, I think he's more of a project right now to kind of work on.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, they got him for about two sevens rounder pick, two sevens from pick.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So essentially it's, it's a lottery ticket.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they did add a lot of depth on a defense line as we noted in free agency.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he's more of a guy that's, that's a project.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think he'll be a fun guy to watch and pre-season in those second half.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's where Vanneberg might make his biggest impact.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not an insult out of it.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just where he is as a six-room pick.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's move over to the line-backer room.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's start with the big free agent signing with Dev and Bush who, in kind of in essence, replaces remain Edmunds.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously they're different players.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bush is faster and and more explosive, but doesn't have the height and the size and the range of Edmunds.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: fits more with how Dennis Allen wants to utilize his linebackers with that athleticism and I think Bush is an interesting player because this is I think 10th and 11th overall pick by the Steelers had a pretty darn good rookie year that he had injuries.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: He lost some of that explosiveness started rebounding with Cleveland and had a really good season last year.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think you know I had Courtney Crohn and on here after the signing and she was a little bit just like who is
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel a little more confident than I think Courtney does in terms of that, I think he's going to be a good player.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it is going to be interesting to see what Dennis Allen, how he wants to utilize him in his defense.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know a dance sound like, you know, versatility and speed, and when I watched a line back at the core when it was, for me, that meant that DJ Edwards, I'm sure we're going to add words here in a little bit, but like when I you watched them, and they had a cover of running backs and tight ends and sometimes wider sewers in the slot or mismatches.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was not pretty.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I go back again, mention the lines, even at the end of the here, like, Jamar Gibbs, and they put, I'm around St. Brown, they found a way to get him on Trauma in Edmunds, and it just, it wasn't good.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I see why they did it.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see why they brought in Devon Bush.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he fits what they want in terms of lineback or spot.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still y'all dressed a lot of me for me.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still got to see it.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it got to be a good player.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm probably not by a little higher on him than Courtney isn't probably where you're at.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he'll be fine.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think getting into a system where Dennis Allen can use his speed and can use his versatility to kind of make plays will help him.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you had two touchdowns last year, junior substance attorney for touchdowns last year.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of got that big play ability.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, which, you know, the bears of the league and turnovers last year and it's hard to replicate that.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but there's a guy that, you know, could get you a big play here and there.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I like that I could see why the bears went out and didn't sign them and what he fits with Dennis Allen.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now we just have to trust that Dennis Allen can get the most on this live barrier, of course.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think there's some questions with that.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's, uh, it's a little interesting here going to train camp.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it definitely isn't.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You brought up TJ Edward.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go there next because I think when I look at this defense and like we said, the defensive line has problems, but it really to me just kind of looks like it's going to be, you know, sweat,
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: The second linebacker, which to me, I look at this now, and just so there's two linebackers that start not three.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know the base is three, but they're going to be in nickel so much.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where we look at it.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Between Demarco Jackson and TJ Edwards, and I think Demarco Jackson had the huge game against Cleveland, the defense supplier, the week.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think some bear's friends like, oh, well, that's the player he is, but he had an excellent game then, and he wasn't quite as good in other games.
• 22:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, this is a guy who's got Dennis Allen familiarity in New Orleans, kind of fits more with what Dennis Allen likes to do.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: TJ Edwards, he's coming off a significant injury here.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: look to me, I look at this and go of some of the moves the bears have made in terms of contracts.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think at this point, the TJ AdWords extension is one they wish they could have back the way things have developed with this coaching staff with Dennis Allen here now and everything.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: But regardless, TJ AdWords is going to be here for one more season.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: probably it based on how they've drafted and what they're looking to do.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think on this defense, one of the more interesting potential training camp battles is who is going to be starting next to Devon Bush?
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it going to be TJ Edwards for Demarco Jackson?
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a tough one, man.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree, I think the bears are having a little parts or more of some of that contract.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because again, I think it was at a huge contract.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, it's just to be easier if he wasn't here right now.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I look at TJ Edwards, obviously, the leadership stands out.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's been here.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's been the defense he knows.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, you watch him last year.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's some struggles.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of who'll be the starter, I think it'll be TJ.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, I think the market was going to push them, you know, the other thing is like every year the bears last couple years bears have had injuries at lineback or spots.
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd be shocked if the market was not playing at some point, but again, you know, they're going to use a lot of nickel.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're going to use a lot of time looks to like I really think 10 a.m. really wants to go time.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: a lot.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's going to start trending more and more here.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you know, answer the question I'd probably go with TJ just because of the veteran presence and, you know, nothing against America, but like you said, you had the big game against Cleveland.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Other than that, though, it wasn't like, I don't know if there was enough to justify him entering training camp if they're both healthy, you know, to take that step forward.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he's certainly going to be linebacker three.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's some questions behind like Noah's tools coming off an injury,
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jack Sandborn make the roster.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's another one too.
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's another thing we can do later on.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, Kishan Elliott, you know, he was banged up.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't out there.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ruben Hippolyte didn't show much less here.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I think, you know, when you talk about the second linebacker Edwards, third, Jacks and I think behind them, they might have a little, uh, some questions back there.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I agree with those guys being the top three.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if Edwards is having significant problems recovering from his injury, which I know, you know, Mason West, who, you know, a lot of us bears fans.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, he talked about that.
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That injury is significant enough, especially at his age.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: That may be something that hampers in this year.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, if that happens, we're going to see things a lot different with the Marco Jackson.
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I lean.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: because I kind of look at this as go if T. J. Edwards is going to be here next year, go with if it tie goes to the to Jackson in essence.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it might be Jackson as the, as the second linebacker or T. J. Edwards comes in in base and plays the mic position.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: But,
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's interesting because I don't know.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing you're guessing on how that plays out.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But beyond that, if a sum of TJ Edwards is pretty okay, I agree with you.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those are your three linebacks.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: What happens behind them?
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do they keep five linebackers?
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do they decide to keep six linebackers?
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because like you said, we've got a rookie and kishan Elliott.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Rubin Hippolyte.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Noah Suhl and we have Jack Sandborn.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: we've got four guys they made cut that down to two they might keep three out of the four but here's what we know they're not keeping seven linebackers one of those guys it's not going to be on the roster I tend to think it might be so but I know he was used a decent amount last year before that injury what do you think kind of plays out here on that the back half of his linebacker room well we talked about in the last podcast but hope teams I think is going to be the deciding fact in there
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to keep Elliott for the sake of this experiment.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to keep Elliott, you know, I, but he didn't play special things on Arizona State.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said he will he'll play it.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, you got to keep one on the last three.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a hard time believing they're going to cup hip-a-lite after one season too.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the one I keep going back and forth on.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know, I'm talking, I talk myself into them, cutting them, and I talk myself into them, keeping them to you.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like flipping and flopping on it.
• 26:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think Sanborn will probably won't make the roster.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I know, I think it's, yeah, no a sewer hip-a-lite, and it's going to be tough.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to come down to how healthy is no a sewer, because he's not been out there at all.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, will he be out there for Trinkham the Saratrain camp if he's not advanced obviously ribbon hip-a-lite and it's probably Jack Sandborn too just for the sake of it.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, if I predict now I think Elliott Yeah, I'd probably say hip-a-lite But we think you think they keep you think they keep five and not six
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it'd be, yeah, five, five's the norm now, it seems.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just kind of look at it and go, they got six, seven viable players.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It also comes down to, they keep the extra defense back.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: What defense alignment they're keeping as well?
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the other thing.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I do think there's some questions about the secondary as well.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, if they keep five, I'd probably say those two.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's move back to the secondary because I think there's some interesting things here to talk about as well, especially who's going to be opposite Jalen Johnson.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We won't get to that just yet, but let's start with Jalen Johnson because
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's interesting here.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a really key piece to this defense this season.
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: If this defense, which was, and I understand, they had to have a lot of turnovers, I understand their third down defense was pretty darn good.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was in the top half of the league, but down and down, this was a bad defense last year.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And a big part of it was the secondary, not necessarily their fault.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had tons of injuries back there.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: they need Jalen Johnson to get back.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he's ever going to be that elite, you know, second team all pro guy.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was a few years ago, but they need him to be a viable corner for, you know, 15, 16, hopefully 17 games this year.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know, do you think Jalen Johnson still has that in the
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do obviously the obvious answer here is you got to stay healthy, like last year when we're doing the show, we didn't know we had the soft tissue or the injury that he suffered.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't know until we got the training camp and that just totally derelaces and you know missing the training camp, missing preseason, getting hurt and his return and again, you know let's we have to be real recovering from those touch injuries, in the cold, in Chicago late in the season is not easy.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I give him props for going out there and playing and playing through it.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he'll get back.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's motivated enough where he sees what other defensive backs are getting paid and doing and he always wants to compare himself to those top defensive backs.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got the right mental make up, the right mindset.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think when he's fully healthy, he is a really damn good corner.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, that's another year.
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: in the books for him, you know, father time it, like I said, he's not all by any means.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not, you know, a young guy like rookie or anything, but yeah, I think he'll return to form.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he'll be, he's got, in my opinion he has to, because I in a secondary, you know, and we're going to talk about the opposite of him and the nickel, if, if, if Jalen Johnson's not formed and there's other questions, I think the bear's coming in trouble.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think he's going to get to that point.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the secondary, it really needs to be healthy, it needs to perform, and if it does, it can be a pretty damn good unit.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, there's so many questions there, and another one of those questions is Kyler Gordon, and I think Gordon's worth talking about not just from the health perspective and the struggles he had last season trying to get on the field.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Ben Johnson's comments about him like we talked about it was a quiet, you know, quiet spring practice this year, because we haven't some fun with the phone ringing in the press conference.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of if we're actually talking about things that were notable, I think you can make the argument about how Ben Johnson talked about Kyle Gordon being the most notable thing.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: that came on OTAs and many camp with that.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know Kyler.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have to kind of see kind of thing.
• 30:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I love what Kyler Gordon brings to the table when he's on the field.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's versatile.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can blitz.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can do all you.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll come up and run.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: He'll do everything you want out of a nickel back and he'll do it really well.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But is he going to be on the field?
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Zach, beyond that, Ben Johnson's comments, you sit there and go,
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what kind of, if Kyler Gordon has another season like he did last year, I just don't know what kind of job security he has.
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, you're right.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that is, that's the biggest story I've come out on the OTA Hazan that off season because we were surprised when he wasn't out there.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're, what's going on?
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, learn another soft tissue injury.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't do much with the team that I saw when in terms of the media.
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's tough because we listen to dance.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when he first got here.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the first guys he mentioned in his press conference was Kyler Gordon and how he could use him as a weapon and utilize him and, you know, I think a lot of people thought, man, they could put him different spots in his defense and he could maybe play outside, he could be the, you know, blitz on a dime look.
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: things like that, but it's in the nickel.
• 32:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: He can match up well against a lot of wide receivers and to be fair when he's been healthy, he's been good.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just when he's healthy and he was not healthy last year.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's suffer that injury, something but two to three injuries last year.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: even when you're turned he just looked a step or two way too slow to the point where I think if they had another guy that they could trust more, they probably would have put him out there instead.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think there's an argument to say that the success of the secondary, I know we talked about jail and johnson, I think the success of the secondary is going to depend on Calagarden.
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who you put in the nickel if he's hurt, Jill and Jones been getting the reps there and nothing against Jill and Jones, but like how confident are you in that and it changes what Dennis Allen wants to do of kind of Gordon's not healthy.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it gives you one less option for a dime look gives you a less option for a nickel look.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, kind of Gordon, you know, I think.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ben Johnson's quote was him talking to Gordon through the media.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, alerting him, saying, hey, you got to get healthy.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need you out here.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you are very important to his defense.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, like Ben Johnson did, you know, in a malicious way or anything like that.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you just did it to kind of put them like, look, like I said, we need you out here.
• 33:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you are very important to his defense.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like you you bring up talking about Kyla Gordon through the media, I'll go back to last year about kind of how Ben Johnson does that strategically and kind of earlier in the season he had that quote about, you know, we're going to have to look at things on tape because we need things to look better with the offensive players when the ball is not in their hand.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember that that was a big deal and you're like, all right, well, who's he talking about because
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's not talking about Colson Lovelin who was banged up a little bit, you know, that, that was not where that is.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not calling out Durham's smife like that.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, and Cole Comet, he was praising Cole Comet for his blocking and some of the other stuff he was doing.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're like, all right, let's move over to the receivers.
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was he calling out Rome?
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was he calling out DJ Moore?
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you could kind of decide what direction he wanted to go.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Luther Burden wasn't playing that much at that point.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: He does the dirty work.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why the bears, the bears signed him.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of said, there was a DJ more.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was it Roman doing say, was it both of them?
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's interesting how Ben does that.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're right.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He kind of just said, look, Tyler, if you're not going to be on the field, we don't know if we have any use for you.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes that's rough to say.
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Mark Grote kind of brought up Bill Parcells.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bill Parcells was the, hey, your best ability is availability.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're hurt, see you later.
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: like he just didn't care and Ben Johnson's cutthroat and we all love Kyler Gordon but if the injuries continue he just might be like if he's out on the field it just I don't care who he can be when he's on the field yeah and I'm sure like not all it'd been say that to the media I'm sure he's talked to Kyler Gordon oh yeah you know and he said that to him and they know and you know I think Kyler Gordon probably respects that and you know
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: understands because, look, it's hard, man, like your draft and you get the extension and you one point what, I don't know if he still has one point is the highest paid nickel or close to it and then you just, you can't count the field and like I said, we know like he can be a weapon, you know, he can blitz, he can be good in coverage, you can move him around if you need in different packages.
• 35:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: He just got to stay healthy and you know, I think maybe as we mentioned how,
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bear second there.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a bad defense and Dennis Allen did wonder with what he could.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just wonder how good they would have been with Calagorn last year, and maybe those numbers are a little bit better.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: But let's hope I really hope he's back this year in training camp right away and he gets out there and avoids soft tissue injuries.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you and I could probably do a whole another hour hour and a half on the injuries, the bears of software.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, staff.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's unfortunate, but, you know, like Bill Partial said, like you said, the best ability is availability.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, before we get to Tyreeg Stevenson and the other outside spot, I want to ask you about Malik Mahavan, now get this is a fourth round pick, you know, you don't expect, now get, it can happen, you know, you see, now I'm doing a blanket, a guy from the charge, this is a fifth round pick and started week one.
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll think of it in a minute, but like you can't see day three court, you know,
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Muhammad has that to beat that guy this year, but I did think it was interesting when Grody was on right after OTAs.
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, Muhammad was playing inside.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you're talking about, you know, who's that guy that's going to, you know, of Kyla Borden's out, maybe it's Jalen Jones, but maybe it's Malik Muhammad.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of thought Malik Muhammad was going to be pushing Tyreek Stevenson the outside, and maybe he does, but perhaps maybe he's also pushing Kyla Borden on the inside.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do think he could do like I think he could play both if they really need him to, you know, he could play a little on the side, but again, you know, if Kyla Gordon's healthy, I think they'll probably try Mohammed on the outside, if he's not in my movement on the inside, I do know they love me like Mohammed, they really like his makeup, his skill set,
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: covered abilities, his ball-hawking instincts, kind of things like that.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versatility is a big thing we keep talking about.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had their eyes on him in this draft and they really liked him.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: He could be one of the bigger surprises in training camp.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know it rookies, Ken's prize, and it's maybe not shocking or anything like that, but I think you could push either for that starting job.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I do think they'll go if Darden's healthy,
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to make their achievements in win the job.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to give them the job.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to force, I'm going to have to push him and force in the push category of Gordon as well.
• 37:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it'll be kind of interesting to see if they if they try on the outside first and try on the inside.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there could be situations where maybe gets first team reps on the inside and goes and plays outside in the second team, things like that.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's definitely my notebook to watch this training camp where he lines up.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it'll be it'll be kind of fun to see his progression as well.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you mentioned Tyree Stevenson.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go there next because of all the surprises that I had in terms of how the Bears approached this off season.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think the Bears were going to go out and try and sign a major cornerback.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I did think they were going to try and sign a nation-right type of player.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't want to recign right that's fine.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't get a huge contract.
• 38:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So clearly, the Bears could have brought him back if they wanted to.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not criticizing the decision, but I am surprised that because towards the end of the season, the bearers are dealing with injuries, Tyreek Stevenson is only going out.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You go back and look at the defensive snap counts, the last couple of games of the regular season and in the playoffs, he's getting 30% of his snaps.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's not out there very much even though the bears were down players where he'd said to be like, oh, of course they're going to start Tyrex Stevenson, but clearly he was falling out of favor with this coaching staff.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought Dennis Allen was going to love him.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought Tyrex Stevenson was going to have the best season of his three years in the NFL, and
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if whatever happened in year two with the lapses and concentration and the issues he had, if that's, that's, you know, carrying forward in year three, I don't know what's going on with Tyrex Stevenson because the first, the rookie season and opening week in year two with the, with the pick six with the, the Titan's game, everyone thought Tyrex Stevenson was on his way and things have taken an abrupt turn and they are, you know,
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: not getting much better it seems so i was shocked i'll be honest that tyrig stevens at night again i agree with you he's not being given the spot but he's also not getting put there's not a veteran or a big guy there to push him either
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, he was the one he had the he changed the Cowboys game when he didn't have the force Fumble I think it was Javante Willy.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you're right.
• 40:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which from there you would have said, oh, well, okay It's on the right track, but like you said, yeah, I remember late those games late.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was not a lot of reps for them
• 40:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's an interesting case this year because we heard it out Harris had to say about him.
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now Harris loves him.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Elhurst basically said, like, yeah, he's paying attention to the other things.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's asking more questions.
• 40:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tyrex even said himself, he's going to the offense to ask.
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: What can I do better?
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are you guys targeting me in practice?
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are the things you see from me?
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a good first step.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, it was hard to ignore those lapses.
• 40:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you just had a couple of games to that and got not the magnitude of what happened in Washington.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I remember those of the game.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was worth the end of the year.
• 40:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was celebrating the end zone.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: The art team was trying to get ready to go no hot or line up or something like that.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that that happens, but again, for a play that's had a mistake like that, it can't happen again.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be very interested in watching this training camp because, like you said, there's no veteran in here.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The guys behind him, the push him, essentially, you know,
• 41:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Terrell Smith was heard all flashed here and you don't know if Smith fits that is out of defensive.
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that was more of an eber flu sky.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and when he was playing, I mean, it wasn't like, okay,
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Josh Blackwell, like Jalen's, there's not a lot of guys like behind them, and I got the roster being pulled up to some of these other names, like it's guys that are fringe roster players too.
• 41:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Cam Lewis is a little versatile.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's not a lot to really push type of Stevenson, which, you know, might not be great because maybe he's a guy that needs to be pushed with competition.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I do think he'll be the DB too though.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they'll start off DB too and try and count.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, and let's, you know, I want to talk to you a little bit about Dennis Allen and this defense has a hold, but before we do, let me ask you about the safety room, because Kevin Byard and Jacquan Brisker last year, that was, that was the solid duo.
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Brisker did show some improvement from from year three to year four, but still not, you know, I, whether it was the concussions issues he had previously or just not quite the fit, whatever, you know, coverage, whatever it might have been, they do decide to move off of Brisker.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Byered, it seemed like the bears were interested to bring them back.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure exactly what was going on there, but regardless, they move on from Byered, but I do think even though when you lose two starting safeties, you have concerns, I do think the potential of what Kobe Bryant and Dylan Thineman can be together is quite interesting and probably, if we're being honest, even if the talent may not be quite as good as what Kevin Byered brings to the table, the fit.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: of what these two guys could be in Dennis Allen's defense is really intriguing.
• 43:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the key.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versatility, speed, and play different spots that are needed.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the end of it is a good fit.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are rookie though.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to have a little bit of a learning curve.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be behind a start camp.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there might be some struggles.
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's kind of why the Kobe Bryant signing is a little important.
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: At least you have a guy back there.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of Superballs played on a good defense.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of knows where he's going to kind of direct the defense.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Almost kind of play that Kevin Byrd type role.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have liked to see him come and buy her back.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: how close they were.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it was down to the two teams between hit the bears and patriots.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, but let's look behind them.
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot of depth back there.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there is Elijah Hicks.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine if you need him to start in a pinch or anything like that.
• 43:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cam Lewis, someone like that.
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's just not a lot of depth back there.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that could be a spot where
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: there's some injuries, they might have to go to that time look and use a couple extra defensive backs.
• 44:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So safety, I don't feel worried.
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel great about it, not yet.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's a big issue.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, it's not Kevin Myers, not Jacqueline Brisker.
• 44:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to take them time to get used to and the chemistry is going to have to be back between those guys back there because you're essentially even if you do have the starters of Johnson and
• 44:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of communication, they need to be figured out as well.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, now let's let's talk about Dennis Allen here because look, I loved bringing in Dennis Allen.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've said this a dozen different times, but to me, Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen, and I'm not saying it is right now, but it has the potential to be Andy Reed and Steve Spaggola.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: where you have a very good defense coordinator who just is not an NFL head coach.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't work and it's very doubtful if Dennis Allen ever gets a legitimate look as a head coach again because he's failed twice at it now.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the idea where Ben Johnson can focus on the offense, Dennis Allen can focus on the defense, and you can have stability at the top of your coaching staff four years and years potentially.
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I love that idea of having him here.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now again, he did some great things last year in terms of being able to cause turnovers.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, the third down defense was, I think top 10, 12 in the league, despite the defense being poor, overall,
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: a couple different, you know, with like Bush and Thineman and Brian, maybe some some better fitting guys in the Allen scheme, but we still got questions with the defensive line and putting into the fact that Ben Johnson called out the coaches in the spring and has like, hey, we need to coach better.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And some people pointed to Antoine Randallel in terms of the drops and some of the things issues of receivers had.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I look at Dennis Allen too, and I'm not saying that Dennis Allen needs to make sure this is a top 10 defense because there are certainly issues with it this year, but I think Ben Johnson may have been, and maybe I'm wrong, may have been kind of lighten a 500 Dennis Allen a little bit too, saying I want your defense to be better this year, the hell with personnel.
• 46:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got to be better, it can ask me better, like, and I do think, you know, I agree, does Allen.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: very respected around the league.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very good defensive coordinator.
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're starting to get his players slowly in here and I think this season showed us, you know, they let some guys walk that, you know, we're whole over some last regime that did not get big deals.
• 46:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, pretty much every guy that left on the defense didn't get a huge deal and that, you know, myself included
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I did think we're getting his guys in and what he wants in the mold of his defense.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the main thing is for me is that defensive line has to play a lot better.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And somehow Dennis Allen's gonna have to get it to play better.
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we've already heard good secondary play can help the defense line.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, it can help good secondary play.
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: The defensive line can help defense line play is really good.
• 47:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got to see what happens this year.
• 47:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think they're starting to get his guys in here.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of start to make the mold of what he wants as defense to be.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, when the coach is saying, we need a coach better.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like when he's responding to,
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: why your defensive line stinks and why they can't get sex and he's pulling to his coaching and the fundamentals, you know, that he was talking to his out of my opinion.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was talking to those assistant coaches.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was making sure they know like we gotta be better at this stuff.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, you know, I don't think what he means to his out is gonna be gone and for a year, I don't think they're gonna have a disastrous year and I worry a little because they do play some pretty damn good offences.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: two in their division, maybe three depending on what happens with Colour Murray, Minnesota.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's fair to write them off for anything yet.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Murray's going to have a good year personally.
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to play better than what a lot of people think.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the main reason he's got Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you look at the absolute north, there's a lot of talent.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We already saw the lines carve up that defense one week and beat him another week.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I would agree.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they got
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: the potential for the any reads, back in all the type defense.
• 48:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, whether it's Dennis Allen, whether it's the players, or it's the assistant coaches, he's gonna be judged on how the defense plays.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's important that he's starting to get his players in, but it also could work against him too, where it's still really bad.
• 48:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: People are gonna say, well, you got your mold in here, you got your guys you want, but it's not working out.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's been gone, no, I don't think he'd be gone if there's anything,
• 49:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I personally like him.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're on the right track with that defense to kind of get it going.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and look, and I agree with you with you, they're getting his guys in here.
• 49:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he was here with the Grady Jarrett, the Dio Dengbo signings, which are holding back that defensive line.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to look at that as well.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Dennis Allen, in terms of a lot of his decisions, assuming he's having contributions in New Orleans and everything, those defensive line decisions have been questionable.
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it'll be curious, because that for me,
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: This comes down to this and I think Dennis Allen is a good enough defense coordinator and how he's going to, you know, stun and blitz and do things he's going to be able to dial up pressure when he needs to in the regular season, but my concern is not the regular season my concern is the postseason because when you are going up against top quality quarterbacks like Matthew Stafford for example, even deck press got.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: you gotta be able to rush for and get pressure.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can get away with it in the regular season.
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, but in the playoffs, when the games on the line, you've gotta be able to pressure those talented quarterbacks with four guys, because if you're gonna have to blitz and be creative, that's when those quarterbacks are gonna hurt you.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when the bears are gonna get, if they do make the playoffs again this year, that's where they get bounced.
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going to take anything away from how they played against the Rams.
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: If that game's played indoors, I think the Rams score a lot more points.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that weather was definitely a factor.
• 50:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they did a good job against the Rams, just wasn't enough.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you're right.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was looking with a buddy at their schedule this year.
• 50:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: The worst quarterbacks are going to face, and essentially, Gino Smith with the jets, Malik Willis with Miami.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you could throw a shock in there, he'd throw.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: for a lot of yards last year.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's going to be a pretty good QB.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to be elite, but I think you're only a solid quarterback.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's definitely not bottom tier and like that.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like that's the three worst quarterbacks are playing with some missing one.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got your division all guys six times.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have Josh Allen, you know, you have Jalen Hertz.
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess Bryce Young would be probably in that lower tier, but you're playing some good teams this year and some good passing offenses.
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's definitely going to be a test for Dennis Allen.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, absolutely.
• 51:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I actually, you know, just, you know, we're worth getting it in the training camp preview.
• 51:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Brief talk on special teams.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think we need to spend, you know, a lengthy conversation about this.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Cairo Santos, I think, is interesting.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're probably gonna see the same cycle.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We see with Cairo Santos every year where in October we're complaining that he can't hit 55 yard field goals.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in December, when he's knocking down 46 yard field goals and swirling wins and eight degrees, we're gonna love Cairo Santos.
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you got that situation, which I think is just going to be what it's going to be, but Tory Taylor, you know, he's certainly, he's not terrible, but he is not good either.
• 52:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's very just mad.
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really disappointing for Bear's fans, not just because he's also
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stralian and everyone loved him and it was inside he was going to be here, but you spend a fourth round pick on a punter.
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need to have better returns than this.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying, you know, you're a punting expert or anything like that, but the Taylor situation is something that in year three here, he really needs to be the weapon Ryan Poles said he drafted when they picked him out of Iowa and the fourth round.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree on percent.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting because you'll see
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is booming these punts, like sky high, a lot of hang time, and you're like, man, I just don't know, are 70 yard punts, you know, like things like that.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get some of the games and it's like, line drive pun, and he's basically out kicking his coverage.
• 52:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, the guys aren't fast enough to get down there.
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's special teams not having a lot of speed.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think Richard Heitauer tells you, it's probably a mixture of both and things like that.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, he's got to be better, simply because you did spend a fourth round pick.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You see what you want to buck your everything.
• 53:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a good player.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was taken after running back the time was probably a little bit of a need.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They worked out for the bears in terms of running back, but yeah, you spent a fourth round round.
• 53:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're expecting to be top.
• 53:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: three, four, five.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You gotta be.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can live with that.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you live with Top 10, even.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's been at Top 10, but that's not.
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which is unfortunate, and then, you know, I think with Cairo, yeah, you're right on that too.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny because like,
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it could play an act to over like you said, and then he'll come up with like a clutch kick that you didn't mention the 40 you know come up like a clutch 56 57 yarders I was you know come up like a 50 yarder in the snow or something or in the cold and I think he's he is reliable he's consistent when you like to go to the better leg probably, but also they're not they don't really have competition to push on like.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: The guy they have in right now, the lefty, not, I mean, he's probably going to be caught obviously, but like he's not pushing him.
• 54:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, he's not pushing as a competition for Cairo, and then you got long snapper with two guys that have legit question marks.
• 54:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, elk and elk was here, and then you have on the rookie out of Georgia, who's his first year.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, people, those are the type of battles I like to look at because
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Long stepper is important because it has to be a quick good process to get that snap back there, whether it's punts or feel golf.
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: The operation has to be good.
• 54:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up long sapper and obviously I don't want to spend 10 minutes on it, but you know, like you said Luke Elkin, he was around a little bit last year and Bo Gardner, the rookie like, look,
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of times like you don't just like you don't pick up a long snap or he starts right away.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: These guys kind of bounce around for two or three years and then they find their groove and they settle in and maybe that's what happens with Bo Gardner but I will say like when you're and I you know if I need to ask someone about long snap and I ask Patrick Manly I don't know anything about long snap.
• 55:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: again, if I'll level, I'm not going to pretend to.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Bo Gardner was like first team all SEC and first team all pro wins the Patrick Manley award for the scud.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: This guy is a decorated collegiate longstap or so if you're going to bring in a rookie to potentially, you know, start longstap and 40 and maybe be here for 15 years, Bo Gardner is a pretty good place to start.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like I said, it's got the operation, like Richard Hightower always mentions the operator.
• 55:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be clean.
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: If anything's off, it could be disaster.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that is one of the battles that you probably look at at training campus, not actually one that's going to be a quote unquote sexy one, but it is one that is important because it isn't need now after last season.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and finally, we'll wrap up with returns and then kind of get your overall thoughts on the team.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: The return, you know, interesting this year, Xavier and Thomas that you would think is gonna be in the mix with his speed.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Khalif Raymond, that's where the Khalif Raymond signing is nice, is basically he's replacing two guys.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's all made as a key as on the offense, and he's devined Dufernay on special teams and you're hoping to get both out of that.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think they're gonna have, you know, unless Xavier and Thomas turns
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: becomes a great returner.
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they're going to have great returns, but I do think that Raymond and Thomas and some of the things they have going on with the return game, could make it a pretty, at least competent, you know, situation with the return game.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and obviously the kickoff rules change a lot of things to you know, it's very different than what you and I were used to growing up.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 56:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I'm curious to see, because, you know, we'll see at TrainCap, they'll have multiple guys back there.
• 56:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They'll have a little bit of burden back there, fielding kicks, though, you know, they have, they just, they just do it just in case for emergency, but yeah, it's going to be time as it's going to be, um, Raymond, and, you know, I'm, I'm curious to see if there's any more tweaks, because now we're getting more data, more information on the new kickoff and, you know, you see some teams put two guys back there and kind of do some funky things.
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm curious about, to see if the bears do any of those tweaks, if they see if they can find, because you're always a special team's coach, you're always trying to find that little advantage.
• 57:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen Richard, you know, for the Christmas on the Richard high towers, got for some things, he has found some tweaks and some things to kind of exploit.
• 57:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see at a return game, but obviously, if they can get a solid returner, only helps the offense in terms of field position, makes a ways here for them.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100% all right Zach last one for you.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've been kind enough where we're approaching two hours here on the double podcast, the bears overall expectations obviously sky high for bears fans expecting another, you know, a leap forward for cable Williams Luther burden.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Colston Lovelin, the offense as a whole, if the defense is better, is this a superbowl contending team?
• 58:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like how good can this team be?
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of the national media, no one says the bears are going to be bad.
• 58:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think most national media, because of the comebacks and the close wins, because of the turnover, most likely going the turnover is going to regress this year, because that's just usually how it works when you look at the math.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: National media, I think thinks the bear is going to regress to maybe be a nine and eight, ten and seven team.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, schedule, you can say is tougher.
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of people like to say, oh, well, you don't know how the schedule, you don't know how these teams are going to be, you know, like, you're, unless Josh Allen is hurt, you're playing Josh Allen, like it.
• 58:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's certain things that are unavoidable on this schedule.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We know the north is going to be a gauntlet.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we can sit there and say, yeah, we don't know, you know, the Carolina Panthers Michael 5 and 12 again this year.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I get that to a certain extent.
• 58:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, I think the schedules tougher.
• 58:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think some of the points that national media makes are fair.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, I don't want to put anything past Ben Johnson in terms of still improving this team and getting it better this season.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you overall with the Chicago Bears team?
• 59:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Will they take a step forward?
• 59:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Will this be kind of a, and I don't mean it as a negative when I say stuck in the mud, just kind of they are about the same team.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were last year.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do they regret?
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of the 2026 Chicago Bears here in July?
• 59:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very hard to replicate the one score of the comeback wins they had leading the league in the turnovers.
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very hard to do that.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sitting right here and I'll purpose this by saying I'm usually wrong on these predictions.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm going to write in like the last 10 years one time.
• 59:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're gonna make the playoffs.
• 59:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they're gonna win the division and I say that because there are so much like every year in the NFL, there's a Samsung team that goes worse to first or there's different.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and outside the Brady Dominated A of CE so the bill is dominating that like, it's hard to repeat as a division title winner.
• 1:00:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the finish second, I think there'll be somewhere around the nine to 10 wins.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they'll get in as a what six seed.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'll make a playoff to think I want to play off game.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they're Super Bowl contender just yet, and the reason why I say this is they play in arguably the toughest division.
• 1:00:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the north and the west and the west and the, I've seen two of the toughest divisions of football.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have legit 17s, I think that could make better playoff contenders.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, with the stepchild being the Arizona car tools, I think all the other teams are are really damn good, and I think the NFC is going to be tough this year.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think we're going to make the playoffs that they want to play off game.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're a year away from actually like next year when we do this, I think we'll be stock in Super Bowl.
• 1:00:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that.
• 1:00:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the thing with the North, like you said, it's a tough division.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is the only division in the league, and maybe you could say it about the South, but in the South you're saying it in a negative way, because none of the teams are very good.
• 1:01:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The North, you can pick a name out of a hat and say this is a team that's going to win the division, and none of them would surprise you.
• 1:01:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have literally four teams, none of them would be surprising if they win the division.
• 1:01:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the Detroit Lions had a down year last year and they were 98.
• 1:01:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, the Minnesota Vikings finished third.
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were a game out, like they were half game out of the playoffs because of the tie that the Green Bay had, which is how they did that with that quarterback room.
• 1:01:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:01:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a credit to Kevin O'Connell and Bryan Flores.
• 1:01:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like people like honestly forget how close to the playoffs and if we were done this last October, we'd all be laughing, oh yeah,
• 1:01:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: close to the playoffs and the Lions are going to contend for the title and you know funny things happen but again you know I could be totally wrong funny things could happen again this year and the Bears could have a way better record but I just that's kind of where I'm at right now and and we'll see I mean it could change but I think again we're still probably a year away from actual Super Bowl talk.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, well there he is Zach Pearson from the Bear Report, the two part training camp preview of the Chicago Bears.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you guys all enjoyed it.
• 1:02:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Zach, thank you for so much time.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's a big ask asking someone to sit down for two hours.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Really enjoyed your insight.
• 1:02:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much and enjoy training camp.
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it, man.
• 1:02:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, that's going to do it for Bear's banter.
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: We will see you again soon, bear it out, everybody.
• 1:02:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Adios.
• 1:02:47
  [UNKNOWN]: you