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Behind the Scenes (Rebel HR Podcast) · The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective

0:00
Ways you're doing that. I'm curious as you have have
0:03
maybe broadly focused on the work that you do.
0:07
How have you determined where to focus your time and energy on
0:13
you know where we start like like I'm just curious because I
0:17
think it's it's such an exciting and and big opportunity for us
0:21
to think about in our organizations, but we have to
0:23
start somewhere. So I I have to believe that you
0:26
know you've got some methodology to figure out, OK, where where
0:29
should we start with with how do we put employees first what,
0:32
what insight do you have for our listeners?
0:34
That's a good question, and I don't know if I have the
0:36
greatest answer. I'll just try to like, pull
0:38
something out of thin air here because I just talk.
0:40
We'll just soak it in. Yeah.
0:42
No, no, because that is a good question, right.
0:44
Because I am working on so many different things, and I am, I am
0:48
personally so fascinated by so many different things and
0:51
frankly they all are in different stages of HR.
0:56
Different experience levels, different you know, different
1:01
bandwidths and desires. And so I think for me, if I were
1:04
to start somewhere, in my opinion out, I always say start
1:09
at something that is easy for everyone to get on the same page
1:13
around, right? Because what I found as of late,
1:17
a lot of HR people strategize and come up with really
1:20
cumbersome. Strategies really comfort some
1:24
technologies and tools and then expect leaders and managers to
1:28
inevitably adopt it and buy in. And as of late, what I've
1:32
started to realize is that why don't we start finding tools,
1:35
systems, methodologies that do one of two things.
1:38
Either a allow you to kind of really get a deep dive analysis
1:43
and audit of what you have so you actually know where to
1:45
start. That's probably a good place.
1:47
Or the other part, find something that's simple and easy
1:51
to use, where it doesn't take a lot of energy for someone to
1:55
either learn the tool, to access the tool, to manage the tool, to
1:59
develop and implement the process.
2:02
Something that's seamless. And won't take them too much out
2:07
of their zone of Genius, right? Because if you want a sales
2:10
manager to be a better manager, or if you want a product leader
2:13
to be a better leader, or if you want no matter what part of the
2:16
business unit they're in, you want to be able to do that in a
2:20
way where they're not feeling like they're having to double
2:23
click into being a leader and putting it in their employees
2:26
first. They can kind of stay in their
2:28
zone of genius and their skill set, which is potentially sales
2:31
or engineering, whatever the case is.
2:33
But if you really unpack it, that little integration of that
2:37
tool or that practice, they're actually over time becoming a
2:40
better leader naturally and organically.
2:43
So that's probably where I would start.
2:44
I would either start by auditing what you have or I probably
2:49
really would easily start with something that is very easy to
2:52
implement. What are your thoughts?
2:54
That's probably where I love that.
2:56
I think that's so right and we're we're side notes to any of
3:01
the listeners. A, J and I are not going to get
3:03
into like arguments on this podcast.
3:05
If you like that kind of like back and forth bands we know
3:07
because like I am so aligned of that thinking you know and I and
3:11
I think it's like for me it's like I like the analogy of you
3:15
know water always flows to the easiest place to flow to right.
3:20
And I think about our jobs a lot like that because we're, you
3:22
know, I think HR is one of those where you can only plan so much.
3:28
Sometimes you just need to, you just need to listen and follow
3:32
where the energy of the organization needs you to be.
3:34
So like as your example, keeping somebody in their in their zone
3:38
of genius and just supplementing the work that they're already
3:40
doing and doing something that's simple and easy and easy to
3:45
explain and get buy in. And then you know here's the
3:49
thing you might have a really big cumbersome HR program which
3:52
I agree we sometimes we make shit way too complicated, right.
3:55
Like you know it like OK, take a breath.
3:59
We don't need a 27 point you know policy exactly to to, to
4:04
fix this this problem that might happen you know 1% of the time.
4:08
Yeah yeah yeah and that nobody ever even does.
4:11
Yeah, but. But something where you can get
4:14
by and and then ultimately if you have enough of these, like
4:18
little wins, easy wins, incremental wins, then you can
4:22
do the big stuff, then you can get the budget for the big
4:24
program, you know, and and I think that's, I mean, I I really
4:27
think that's where the groundswell happens.
4:30
And then when you have internal advocates that support the
4:32
programs you've already done, then you have a little bit more
4:35
clout, authority to come in and say, all right, here's where we
4:38
need to spend. This is the Big Hairy Audacious
4:40
Issue. This is where we need to spend
4:42
our time and energy to fix it. Right.
4:44
But ultimately it starts with, you know, and I think that the
4:47
simplicity is genius, right. And that's that's so I'm totally
4:53
with you. I will say too as well to add on
4:55
to that the best place to always start from like a mindset
4:59
perspective. Obviously I'm biased because
5:01
I've made-up this term, if you will, but you should start with
5:05
honestly putting your employees first by genuinely
5:09
understanding. What's going to keep them there?
5:12
And then finding a tool of practice for methodology that's
5:15
simple and easy for everyone to get around that's connected to
5:20
that one or two reasons why someone would stay, you know, I
5:24
always personally lean into any tool or system or best practice
5:28
that can really help a leader generally understand who they're
5:32
leading at a real contextual level.
5:35
You know, workflows, how they're going to be involved in
5:37
decisions like Real. Business pieces, because I used
5:41
to be the guy that would kind of get super fluffy and high level
5:44
about it. But then I was like, no, let's
5:47
if someone generally enjoys how they're working or it makes it
5:51
easier or or more connected to how their brain thinks, then
5:55
you're lowering like the the possibility of tension or or or
5:59
conflicting moments. So let's find ways to just
6:02
understand within one team. Let's say you have 10 team
6:04
members. How does each individual, each
6:07
member want to out of? How do they want to work?
6:09
How do they want to work From a workflow perspective?
6:10
Be involved in decisions, idea, generation time, whatever it's
6:16
going to be, and then try to craft some of your efforts,
6:20
tools, whatever you decide to do around solving those particular
6:23
problems. Because now you're going to find
6:24
yourself just having more retention within your individual
6:28
teams and. You scale that up now you have a
6:30
whole company of retention. So I love that.
6:33
I love that you know what? It's, you know what, it's, it
6:35
sounds like to me. I can tell that you're what I
6:38
would consider to be kind of a nontraditional HR.
6:41
Professional because because to me that's not, that's that's
6:44
what we would call like the frictionless experience, right.
6:46
But instead of being like an app or a or a customer, you know
6:51
funnel, it's your employee, right?
6:53
Like if you reduce that friction, if you make the
6:55
experience much more positive for an employee as their leader
7:00
or as their peer or whatever, everybody's going to be more
7:05
comfortable. They're going to have more, more
7:06
enjoyment. That's going to drive retention.
7:08
It's going to be, you know, it's it's it's going to be less of a
7:11
a nightmare meeting. Yeah.
7:13
And I I think, you know here here's the other thing And and
7:16
you use the word, I love this genuine genuinely understanding
7:22
what keeps people right. Because you know there's there's
7:25
so much what I would call pseudo research out there about what
7:30
keeps employees happy right. But so often it's it's
7:33
assumptions and the the reality is it's like you know a lot of
7:40
times when somebody asks me how do we drive retention.
7:42
The honest answer is I'm not really sure because we don't we
7:47
don't always know right. Like somebody, somebody over
7:49
here might want a bunch of cash, right?
7:51
They could they could jump your, they could jump your company for
7:54
1000 bucks more per year which for many of us would sound
7:57
extremely short sighted because we like stability of the
8:00
companies we will work for. Or maybe we love the benefits
8:03
package, or maybe we love the time off, or maybe we just
8:06
freaking love the team and we just, you know, every time I
8:08
walk in, Linda says hi and I love Linda and I just want a
8:11
high five every day. I don't know, everybody's got a
8:14
different lever. But I think this is, this is one
8:17
of the areas that I I'm curious to talk a little bit about some
8:19
of the tools that that you've been working on and some of the
8:22
work you've done with organizations.
8:24
As we've got you know we've got all of these different myriad
8:28
reasons that people have and we've got these different styles
8:31
and approaches towards work. How do we distill this down into
8:36
actionable individual information that a that a leader
8:40
can actually use and to to to stay in their zone?
8:45
So let me let me try to understand the question better
8:47
here. So how can we ask it again?
8:50
My ADB is kicking in and and that's and and that's you're
8:55
like 19 companies, so I get it right?
8:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is your zone of genius.
8:59
Yeah. No, no, it was a you you were
9:01
going on a good you were going on a good monologue there.
9:05
So I want to make sure I understand.
9:06
Yeah, yeah, that's that's my. Yeah, I'm good at that.
9:10
What I'm really trying to get at is, is, is how do we take the
9:13
these all of these assumptions of what keeps people and and but
9:20
how do we put that into a tool for a leader to actually
9:23
understand, OK, this is what makes Brenda tick, this is what
9:29
keeps Joe engaged in at my company.
9:32
Like like what, what kind of tools are you looking at and how
9:34
do you think about that organizationally?
9:37
That's a really good question. I'll be very honest with you,
9:42
like. A lot of the tools that are out
9:45
there, whether they're engagement surveys, whether it's
9:48
certain really interesting like HRIS systems now, employee data
9:54
systems, like they're all interesting.
9:58
And I'm actually going to move around your question.
10:02
The technology that is there is great and it's fine.
10:06
But the person and how they think and approach the
10:08
technology and how they use the tool is even more impactful.
10:12
So, for instance, all of these tools and technology that I
10:16
probably could rattle off can keep that individual data impact
10:21
intact. The individual data can be
10:23
there. Now the question is going to be
10:25
#1. Will the company creatively come
10:29
up with enough questions on the survey or enough elements of
10:33
that technology to have that contextual data?
10:36
And then really the best question or the best element of
10:39
this is will that individual manager of that product team or
10:42
will that individual sales leader leading eight people,
10:46
will they actually have access consistently to go into that
10:50
tool, look at that data prior to having a one O 1?
10:54
Prior to gearing up for that sales team meeting, prior to
10:58
having some thoughts and perspectives on how they're
11:01
going to improve the productivity of that team, will
11:04
they actually spend their time going in there, right?
11:06
Because a lot of these leaders that I just mentioned also our
11:09
individual contributors also have things to do.
11:12
And a lot of the time, it's super administrative.
11:15
Super daytoday, super. You know, mentally taxing when I
11:19
think that's probably the funnest part.
11:21
Like you know you're going to get more out of your team if you
11:23
go these tools, look at that information, jot down some
11:27
really thoughtful notes, and use that information to guide the
11:31
strategy that you have within those meetings or within that
11:34
one-on-one setting. So that's kind of my answer if
11:36
that makes sense. I love it.
11:38
I love it. I couldn't agree more.
11:40
You know I think it's the, the worst thing you can do is got do
11:43
like a big massive survey data grab and then you know say hey
11:51
mission accomplished, we did this high five and then don't do
11:54
anything with it until you do one another year later, right.
11:56
Like that's it's better this the data is proven, like it is
12:00
better to not do anything. Just don't even ask if you're
12:04
not going to do anything with it, right.
12:05
So it's it's about the actions. And to go even more 100%, No,
12:09
you're right. And to go even more down that
12:10
rabbit hole, Kyle, and you remembered your last podcast.
12:14
It takes me a minute to warm up and then I just start adding a
12:18
lot of thoughts. But no, to go down that rabbit
12:21
hole too. Actually got in a pretty intense
12:23
debate with the partner. Regarding, you know, because
12:27
their perspective was like, hey, the technology is great.
12:30
All we need to do is plug in the technology and it's going to
12:32
solve every issue. A lot of product people feel
12:35
that way. They feel like if you just
12:36
implement the technology, it solves every problem.
12:39
And I said to them, I said the technology is just the
12:43
precursor. It's the beginning.
12:45
Everyone that uses this technology has to actually use
12:49
it. They have to be able to read
12:50
that data, story, tell that data, understand that data,
12:53
understand how that data can be used to strategize how you're
12:59
actually going to make some impact.
13:00
Just because you have the data there or just because the tool
13:03
is there doesn't mean it's solving everything.
13:06
And I think a lot of people in the HR technology world and
13:09
frankly a lot of HR people that are really product sound and and
13:13
and articulate to a certain degree, they forget that piece.
13:17
Your managers have to use the data.
13:19
And I'll and I'll give you one more Kyle too.
13:22
I genuinely believe managers should be fired by not using the
13:26
data correctly and not going into the tool and use that
13:29
information. Like like just fire them.
13:31
It's not it's not a it's not a suggestion anymore.
13:35
If your leaders not using the data and the tool that you're
13:38
giving them as HR team members, then in my opinion they're not
13:41
living up to the responsibility of being a great manager.
13:45
Yeah, it isn't that that's in the job description, right?
13:50
It should be but but I couldn't. Yeah, please couldn't agree
13:52
more. I was going to say no, go ahead,
13:55
go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say you know when
13:57
we when we first started talking 3 ish years ago.
14:02
Yeah, you know we were having this dialogue, very similar
14:07
dialogue and you know it was rough out that it was rough back
14:13
that it's like look at the workplace landscape right now
14:16
right. Like like the organizations that
14:18
have not held their leaders accountable to be great leaders
14:22
are struggling right. Like you know there's and and I
14:26
mean they I look at the headlines like you know people
14:29
are leaving and droves and and then you've got these companies
14:33
that that it's not just their individual leaders actions it's
14:37
like it's like silly layoffs and record profits and and you know
14:42
it's like it's it's just like what are we thinking as as you
14:46
know as a society where like people are a consumable resource
14:50
that we shouldn't we shouldn't be thinking about the actual
14:53
human being. But I I I struggle with with,
14:58
you know, those those kinds of organizational decisions and and
15:01
some of the challenges that we're facing.
15:02
What really it comes down to you know, are you a good leader?
15:07
Are you a bad leader? Are you a good organization?
15:09
Are you a bad organization and and if you are struggling with
15:12
leadership, then how are you holding your leaders
15:14
accountable? I don't.
15:15
I don't think it's as complicated as we all make it
15:18
sound. Right.
15:18
If you tolerate bad leaders, you'll have a bad organization.
15:22
1000% and I'll give you all even something that's like strategic
15:25
and tactical too to to add to that, if you are noticing across
15:30
a myriad of teams that there's low performance.
15:33
Low productivity out of a team and or the individuals within
15:37
that team. The first thing you should be
15:40
asking yourself as an HR leader that's leading the entire
15:43
company. The first thing that a VP or a
15:47
C-Suite executive that's that's leading that division should be
15:50
asking is what did you not do as a leader?
15:54
That's in my that's the first thing that you should be asking.
15:57
Not scrutinizing Sarah. Not scrutinizing Andrew.
15:59
Whatever name you're going to throw out.
16:01
The first thing that I'm asking is what did you not do as a
16:04
leader of this team of eight individuals?
16:07
And I believe you should have a checklist.
16:09
Did you? How often have you been having
16:11
one on ones? What questions were asking those
16:14
one on ones? Where is the data being stored?
16:16
Are you using the data? Show me that you've actually,
16:19
thoughtfully put this data into work to support them.
16:22
Have you reached out to LMD and rearranged some things and made
16:26
it more contextual? Made it easy for them?
16:28
Have you checked their home life to make sure everything else is
16:30
good, dear? Like, there should be a full
16:33
range of checklists that you as a leader do prior to pointing
16:37
the finger at them. That's like a that's like a
16:40
tangible example of what I mean by putting employees first.
16:43
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think you know it it it's
16:50
a requirement in my mind for for human resources to be asking
16:55
those questions and educating leaders that that's the
16:58
expectation, right. Like this is no this isn't, this
17:01
isn't an HR program, right. This is like this is what is
17:05
required to be a leader. And and so often there's there's
17:10
there's I think a push back that you know HR needs to HR needs to
17:15
do this stuff. But the reality is leaders are
17:18
the ones that are accountable to to these types of programs
17:21
working and ultimately the good leaders i.e., the ones with low
17:26
turnover, best performance. You know, highly engaged teams
17:31
are the ones that naturally do that without anybody having to
17:34
ask them to, right? And and it's, it's those
17:37
individuals that we should be, you know, having others aspire
17:41
to, to be. So yeah, I couldn't agree more.
17:45
I want to, I want to shift gears.
17:46
I want to talk about this a little bit because I'm
17:48
fascinated to learn a little bit more about this program.
17:50
So one of the one of the organizations that you've been
17:54
supporting is the Top Employers Institute and it's a little bit
17:59
of a different approach on assessing and analyzing the
18:04
programs and systems that we have within our HR organizations
18:09
and so. So tell us a little bit about,
18:11
you know, some of the work that you're doing there and and and
18:14
I'm really curious to learn a little bit about the approach to
18:17
this institute. Yeah.
18:19
At a high level, you know, I'll cover top employers and then get
18:21
into tactically. So you know, we've been working
18:24
with about 2400 movie 1 to almost 3000 companies globally.
18:29
Some of the biggest brands that you all know of Adidas of the
18:31
world, you know American Express of the world, pools of the
18:34
world, PepsiCo on and on, right. Big enterprise companies.
18:38
And at first glance, a lot of organizations always feel that
18:42
we are, let's call it a seal, a certification that inevitably
18:48
just supports things at a high level.
18:51
But what the leaders are talking floors found out and then what I
18:53
found that as we started standing up a new division here.
18:56
Is that generally analyzing the best practices brings even more
19:02
value at a level that I think a lot of HR team members have
19:05
found is super meaningful. So what we do is we actually go
19:09
through and we ask about 265 different questions.
19:13
Then you have to verify as an HR team member that you actually
19:17
have the answers and you can show proof that some of that
19:19
work is actually being done. And we're not doing it to be
19:22
rude or pompous or or or. That we don't believe you.
19:28
We're frankly, and I've always said this to people, we're doing
19:30
it to hold a mirror up against yourself.
19:32
Because Kyle, you know this right?
19:34
How often do you at scale know about HR team members that
19:39
actually hold a mirror biggest themselves?
19:41
Pause and say. What are we actually doing in
19:45
employer branding? Measured up against other
19:47
companies in our industry, measured up against globally,
19:51
measured up against literally everything you could be doing
19:54
from it from an employer branding perspective, at top
19:56
employers, we have that data. We have every single literal
20:00
thing you could be doing from an employer branding perspective up
20:04
till 2023. Like we literally every single
20:06
year scour the market to see what are the most innovative new
20:10
things and then measure that. What are you actually doing from
20:14
the employer branding perspective?
20:15
Oh, we, let's say there's ten bullet points.
20:18
Oh, we're only doing three of those bullet points.
20:21
Fine, that's great. Now you know.
20:23
Now you can know. Now you can make an impact.
20:25
Now you can learn. Now you can utilize some of the
20:28
best practices from other organizations.
20:30
And so things like that is what top employers does.
20:33
And in my personal opinion, things like this is what every
20:36
single organization should go through.
20:38
Every year you should have a moment where you're analyzing
20:41
every piece of your HR effort, seeing where you are, analyzing
20:46
your gaps, cheering, and being happy about the fact that you
20:49
identify those gaps. And now working with your
20:52
learning and development teams, working with your TA teams,
20:55
working with the internal comms team to grow, get better and get
20:59
stronger. And then the last thing I'll
21:01
say, Kyle, then you can actually utilize that seal from a
21:06
recruiting perspective because now you can look an applicant in
21:10
the face and say we actually do have a great employer branding
21:13
system here. We verified it.
21:15
We know what's in the market. We know where our gaps are and
21:18
here's tactically and tangibly how it can help you and then
21:22
impact you and all these different ways.
21:24
So that's a little bit about top employers and kind of how I
21:27
think it's super meaningful for organizations to think about it
21:30
from that perspective. Yeah, I think, you know, I
21:33
think. What what I appreciate about
21:35
this is you know we you and I would we think very
21:39
strategically right. You know what I mean I think
21:41
that's that's that's pretty natural for for individuals like
21:45
us. But sometimes it's really hard
21:47
to take that like 30,000 foot view and like we know what the
21:51
right thing to do is and like intuitively we understand what
21:54
we should do. But tactically, sometimes it's
21:56
hard to actually translate that into OK, we need to get this
22:01
done. This is the best practice of how
22:03
to do it. This is the resources required
22:06
to do it. This is how I'm actually, this
22:08
is how I'm going to actually get through into a system that
22:11
works. And oh, by the way, I think this
22:14
is another key point. This is what everybody else is
22:16
doing. So if I don't do this, I'm
22:19
behind the 8 ball, right? Like, I can't, I can't sit here
22:24
and and sit in this meeting and say we're doing everything we
22:26
can. For employer branding and drive
22:29
that EVP so that our candidates know, hey this is the best place
22:32
to work when we have one out of 10 best practices checked on
22:36
this assessment, right. So it's it's like let's you know
22:39
let's let's take a collective breath let's make sure hey
22:43
here's what we actually do here's what we think will work
22:46
for our organization and and have kind of a framework around
22:50
that. I think there's there's a lot of
22:53
benefit there and I, you know I I appreciate.
22:56
I appreciate the approach of of the, you know, having an
23:00
assessment, but this is the to me it's like it's the exact same
23:04
thing we just talked about like it's a great tool, but then you
23:07
got to know what to do with it, right.
23:08
And so and here, you know, here's kind of the answers to
23:11
the test, here's what you need to do.
23:14
And if you have that as an HR professional, it makes it a
23:17
whole hell of a lot easier to go into a boardroom or the CFO or
23:21
or your financial director's office and say hey.
23:24
Here's what I want to do. Here's the resources I need.
23:26
Here's what this will do for us. Here's the playbook right?
23:30
As opposed to trying to convince people you know, through sheer
23:34
will and passion and energy, which I'm sure we all have
23:37
listening to this podcast 100%. Kyle, I have nothing else to
23:40
add. You nailed it.
23:41
That's exactly, that's exactly what we're trying to bring.
23:44
You know, it's near and dear to my heart.
23:46
I used to be the HR audit guy. You know my one of my last
23:48
companies. So I you know this is.
23:51
I spent a lot of time on this but I do you know I I appreciate
23:54
the approach and and I think you know it's also it's also been
23:57
been tested improvement that it that it works.
24:00
So we'll have for those that are listening, we'll have a link in
24:02
the in the show notes, check it out.
24:04
I think it's it's worth checking out.
24:06
And even if you don't utilize the program, just understanding
24:08
the methodology and how it works and thinking about even if it's
24:12
something where you put together a really simple protocol to go
24:16
out and assess what systems am I using.
24:20
How am I actually tactically impacting employee experience
24:24
and how am I holding my leaders accountable to that?
24:27
You know, if you if you just do that and and take a true look at
24:30
yourself in the mirror, I guarantee you that there's gaps
24:34
there that that you can you can improve 1000%.
24:38
And the last thing that I know, we're almost at time here, I'll
24:41
say on that note, that's what we all know as human beings we
24:45
should be doing, right. Whether it's in our health,
24:49
whether it's in our relationships, whether it's with
24:50
our kids, our spouses, whatever it's going to be, we all know at
24:54
the end of the day it's important to hold a mirror big
24:58
at yourself. Whether that's getting a
24:59
personal trainer, whether that's watching a film where you know,
25:03
whatever the case is going to be where you see people that are
25:05
working out or really pushing themselves to a new level and
25:08
you're feeling inspired and motivated.
25:09
Or whether that's going to therapy.
25:11
Like we all know at some point you should self reflect and make
25:14
some adjustments and lean into that.
25:16
Don't be afraid of that. And I think that's really the
25:19
the, the nuts and bolts of what we're trying to bring to the
25:21
table. I love it.
25:24
I love it. With that, I think we're going
25:26
to we're going to shift yours. I'm, I'm only going to ask you
25:28
one rebel HR flash round question because you you know
25:31
this at this point, this is, you know, third time's the charm.
25:33
But we do have one new question since we last met and I'm
25:36
fascinated to hear your answer. So the the question is where
25:42
does HR need to rebel? Need to rebel.
25:47
HR needs to rebel, in my personal opinion, on their town
25:51
acquisition processes and the way that it traditionally is
25:54
done. I believe right now and I'll do
25:57
a quick plug beyond brand. Give me a call.
25:59
But seriously though, every single organization in my
26:03
personal opinion needs to be brutally honest about the bad,
26:08
indifferent, good, Gray area variables of their company
26:13
department leaders and explain that to applicants as early as
26:18
possible in the recruiting process.
26:20
Stop BS ING these applicants. Stop sharing that this is the
26:23
greatest place in the world to work.
26:24
We have no issues. Be honest, be raw.
26:28
I'm tired of recruiters BS ING the game here.
26:30
That's where I think it needs to rebel, if you want me to be
26:33
brutally honest. Dude, I'm so with you.
26:35
Like I said, we are not going to argue on this podcast.
26:38
I. I shit you Not so early.
26:42
Early in my career, I was a campus recruiting guy, right?
26:46
And we would, we would shine, we would what I would call Polish
26:51
the turd, right? Like he was like, let's just
26:54
make this the prettiest, best place to work ever.
26:57
We'll tell everybody every good thing.
26:59
And we saw like 40% turnover because people would get in and
27:02
they were like, are you freaking kidding me?
27:04
You told me I was going to be this and this and this and it
27:07
was going to be all sunshine and roses.
27:09
Exactly. And I am a huge believer of that
27:11
realistic job review and and I will, I will, you know plug in
27:15
for that. I actually have candidates who
27:17
have hired recently that have come back to me six months later
27:19
and said. You told me exactly what I was
27:22
walking into. I was fully prepared and I am so
27:25
happy that you did that because I was ready from day one.
27:28
And guess what, they're still with the company, right?
27:30
Because it because they made an informed choice and we were open
27:35
and honest. And at the end of the day
27:36
sometimes that's how employees want is is integrity with their
27:41
company. So I'm with you.
27:43
We are right at time. A J, thank you so much.
27:46
It's always a pleasure. I love following your story.
27:49
I love seeing you just just killing it out there and be.