Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Tech Things to Leave Behind in 2023

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Tech Things to Leave Behind in 2023 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samitha and know coome stuff.
0:07
Speaker 2: I've never told your production of ByHeart Radio, and today
0:19
Speaker 2: we are so so happy to once again be joined
0:23
Speaker 2: by the brilliant, the fabulous, the talented, so wonderful bridget
0:28
Speaker 2: Todd here with us for the last time in twenty
0:31
Speaker 2: twenty three.
0:34
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Happy holidays, y'all.
0:37
Speaker 4: Happy holidays to you.
0:39
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so glad you had the time to make it.
0:43
Speaker 2: I know it's a really busy, busy time of year
0:47
Speaker 2: for everybody, so thank you.
0:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, my pleasure. I am such a grane like this
0:54
Speaker 5: time of year. I find it stressful, I find it overwhelming.
0:57
Speaker 5: I feel like it takes more work than usual to
1:00
Speaker 5: show up as my best self because I'm just like
1:03
Speaker 5: my I'm like Baseline, stressed and overwhelmed and grouchy. So
1:07
Speaker 5: this will be a fun you know, departure from all
1:10
Speaker 5: of those holiday plans blah blah blah, stop that and
1:14
Speaker 5: sometimes get me down.
1:15
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well I hope.
1:18
Speaker 2: So this is one of our last recordings of the year,
1:22
Speaker 2: so it's got that again, that kind of like last
1:25
Speaker 2: day of school vibe.
1:27
Speaker 1: Are you doing anything fun? Are you doing like weirdo
1:30
Speaker 1: Christmas or anything.
1:31
Speaker 3: Like that good memory.
1:33
Speaker 5: So for folks who don't know, my partner and I
1:35
Speaker 5: have started a holiday tradition called Weirdo Christmas. If folks
1:39
Speaker 5: are interested in partaking, you can have your own weirdo Christmas.
1:41
Speaker 5: And Weirdo Christmas is before you do Christmas with your family.
1:46
Speaker 5: Whatever you're like, Christmas obligation looks like is whatever to you?
1:51
Speaker 3: You just go have your own little Christmas trip.
1:54
Speaker 5: We usually get a cabin with a hot tub, but
1:56
Speaker 5: it can be anything where the whole point is just
1:58
Speaker 5: to have fun, experience holiday merriment without the obligations that
2:05
Speaker 5: sometimes come with like holiday family plans. Our particular way
2:09
Speaker 5: of celebrating it is weird costumes, weird lights, and we
2:14
Speaker 5: have to watch at least one, but usually several more
2:16
Speaker 5: bad holiday movies.
2:18
Speaker 1: Ooo.
2:20
Speaker 3: I'd like you talk over them and make fun of them.
2:23
Speaker 6: Sure, did we talk about what you consider bad previously?
2:27
Speaker 3: Ooh, I don't think so.
2:30
Speaker 5: So for us it's a lot of over the top
2:33
Speaker 5: Hallmark holiday movies. Usually, you know, a girl who has
2:39
Speaker 5: a good job in the big city, comes home. Her
2:42
Speaker 5: family runs like a bakery, but it's in trouble and
2:45
Speaker 5: then she has to meet a hometown holiday hunk who
2:48
Speaker 5: shows her the tree meeting of Christmas.
2:51
Speaker 6: Yes, who's been like a high school friend or something
2:54
Speaker 6: that they reconnect after years and oh my goodness, he
2:57
Speaker 6: runs a coffee shop and he's richer than he thought
2:59
Speaker 6: or something.
3:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, or it's like flipped.
3:03
Speaker 5: So like if you're listening and you are a woman
3:06
Speaker 5: who has dark hair, brown hair, and you have and
3:09
Speaker 5: you care about your career, you have a like full,
3:11
Speaker 5: well rounded life, like a good career, good friends, and
3:14
Speaker 5: you are going with your partner to a small town
3:17
Speaker 5: to visit his family.
3:18
Speaker 3: You're about to get left.
3:20
Speaker 5: For like a wholesome girl next door type who can
3:24
Speaker 5: really understand it's the true meeting of Christmas.
3:26
Speaker 3: You just know that that's always the thought of these movies.
3:30
Speaker 6: Well, that's kind of a what is that holiday movie
3:33
Speaker 6: with Sarahjiska.
3:34
Speaker 3: Parker on the Family Stone?
3:37
Speaker 6: Yes, like kinda is that whole trap together in one?
3:40
Speaker 6: Like you're like, this is the worst holiday movie ever?
3:44
Speaker 6: Who thought this was a good idea because they took
3:46
Speaker 6: all the trips of like Hallmark but made it tragic.
3:49
Speaker 3: Yes, also the Family Stone that's spoiler alert. Oh it's
3:53
Speaker 3: been out for like twenty years.
3:54
Speaker 5: It has one of my One of the plotlines I've
3:58
Speaker 5: find so interesting is when partner swap like focus, that's
4:03
Speaker 5: a part of it.
4:03
Speaker 3: I always find that to be so weird.
4:07
Speaker 6: It was the Luke Wilson character and the Claire Danes
4:11
Speaker 6: coming in and you're like, this person is abhorrent, but
4:14
Speaker 6: this one is easy and nice and easy, like good,
4:17
Speaker 6: good to go, like just they balance each other out
4:19
Speaker 6: and you're like, wow, this is what what.
4:22
Speaker 4: Is this lesson we're supposed to learn here?
4:25
Speaker 3: Annie?
4:26
Speaker 4: I'm sure you have never seen it.
4:30
Speaker 3: It's actually a pretty good movie. I'm not gonna lae,
4:32
Speaker 3: I don't.
4:34
Speaker 6: I love people really love it as In fact, the
4:36
Speaker 6: reason I thought about this is because it was on
4:38
Speaker 6: TikTok and they were trying to redeem it and saying like,
4:41
Speaker 6: it's supposed to be more realistic. Everybody's supposed to be
4:44
Speaker 6: unlikable to a certain extent because they all have issues,
4:47
Speaker 6: and that's supposed to be the point. And it comes
4:49
Speaker 6: together like it's just family because you also have Rachel the.
4:52
Speaker 3: Gap Rachel McAdams. I think it's her best role.
4:55
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you have her in there, you have uh
4:58
Speaker 6: like Diane Keaton. You just have a whole list of big,
5:01
Speaker 6: big name actors in there, and they're just all somewhat dislikable.
5:07
Speaker 6: You have the token gay couple in there, and of
5:09
Speaker 6: course one of them is black, so you know, yay,
5:11
Speaker 6: everybody's diversity.
5:12
Speaker 3: And I think, is it one of them death as well?
5:15
Speaker 4: Yes, I think so. I think they just put that
5:16
Speaker 4: in one couple.
5:19
Speaker 3: A win for diversity. This movie was.
5:23
Speaker 6: The checklist was real, like, yes, you put all of
5:25
Speaker 6: those great come on in but yeah, like it's such
5:27
Speaker 6: an interesting movie. But I always thought of it as
5:30
Speaker 6: like this is what happens if a Hallmark movie were
5:33
Speaker 6: to come together in a motion like a large motion picture,
5:35
Speaker 6: and you just really never had too many redemptive arcs
5:38
Speaker 6: except for enough to be like we're a family, we're
5:41
Speaker 6: gonna pull it together type of conversation.
5:44
Speaker 4: That's how I thought of that movie.
5:47
Speaker 5: And what's more important to the stream meaning of Christmas
5:51
Speaker 5: than family persevering.
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Speaker 4: In the end, right with someone always about to die.
5:56
Speaker 7: Yes, we're different Christmas the same obviously Hallmark.
6:07
Speaker 6: Because it's been a minute. If I like, I've not
6:10
Speaker 6: seen many Hallmark movies, I'm trying to think because like
6:14
Speaker 6: they are along the same lines of Lifetime, right, Lifetime
6:17
Speaker 6: has been yeah but over yeah.
6:20
Speaker 5: So I'm using Hallmark as like a catch all for
6:23
Speaker 5: like a like like a d like a type of movie.
6:27
Speaker 3: But if you really want to watch a movie, like.
6:30
Speaker 5: A Christmas movie that is like I almost feel like.
6:33
Speaker 3: Hallmarks a little more highbrow.
6:35
Speaker 5: If you really want to watch a really Christmas movie
6:37
Speaker 5: that's like not it's like knows what it is, check
6:41
Speaker 5: out a mar Vista Entertainment movie because they basically only
6:45
Speaker 5: make bad Christmas movies like Hallmark in in theme, but
6:50
Speaker 5: like way.
6:51
Speaker 3: Trashier and way worse.
6:53
Speaker 5: Recently, where the the like logo of the movie, like
6:59
Speaker 5: the image for the movie had chevy Chase is prominently featured,
7:03
Speaker 5: so we're like, oh, I guess chevy.
7:04
Speaker 3: Chase is this movie. When I tell you that chevy Chase.
7:06
Speaker 5: Is the movie for like thirty seconds, like he's also
7:09
Speaker 5: clearly not filmed with everybody else, so it's like, oh, y'all,
7:11
Speaker 5: have y'all have like thirty minutes with chevy Chase and
7:14
Speaker 5: you were like throwing on the box he's in.
7:18
Speaker 6: That's amazing because I think it's like he got pretty
7:20
Speaker 6: much blacklisted because he was so difficult, notoriously difficult, so
7:24
Speaker 6: that would make sense. He'd be like, yeah, pay me
7:26
Speaker 6: a lot of money. I'll be on it for the
7:27
Speaker 6: thirty seconds. This is what I'll do. Now, that's amazing.
7:33
Speaker 4: Wow, So I watched all those movies.
7:35
Speaker 3: I've watched a ton of them.
7:37
Speaker 5: I have watched, Yes, and another another genre that I
7:41
Speaker 5: really enjoy is Annie, you'll appreciate this horror Christmas movies.
7:46
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot.
7:47
Speaker 5: Of really good holiday, cheesy horror movies. It's a really
7:52
Speaker 5: pretty good intersection that I.
7:53
Speaker 2: Like, Oh yeah, oh yeah, I think that's a big
7:56
Speaker 2: trend right now.
7:57
Speaker 4: It is, and I'm.
7:58
Speaker 1: Super into it. I love it.
8:02
Speaker 3: This.
8:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been an interesting because I had like
8:05
Speaker 2: my go to movies, but this year has definitely been
8:08
Speaker 2: more of a horror Christmas year than.
8:13
Speaker 6: Have you watched The Violent Night or is it the
8:17
Speaker 6: Is it like just a violent action movie?
8:19
Speaker 1: It's kind of a yeah.
8:21
Speaker 2: I would say it's more of a action, like a
8:25
Speaker 2: violent action action.
8:28
Speaker 6: We watched it with my partner's parents and his mom
8:31
Speaker 6: is like the sweetest says a little note card prayer
8:34
Speaker 6: for dinner, and she was just like, what is happening.
8:37
Speaker 6: I'm like, you could not take the worst movie.
8:40
Speaker 1: If he tried.
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Speaker 3: How did this become the movie that you all were watching?
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Speaker 6: I don't know he was he was just bound. He's
8:47
Speaker 6: like set on it, like this is I don't think
8:49
Speaker 6: it is just be funny.
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Speaker 4: It was not.
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Speaker 1: I mean that it was old movie.
8:54
Speaker 3: I know.
8:56
Speaker 2: I try very hard not to watch a movie like that.
8:59
Speaker 2: The first time.
9:00
Speaker 4: I think he's been banned from picking movies. Yeah, I
9:06
Speaker 4: rerect it.
9:09
Speaker 1: I got it.
9:09
Speaker 4: It's a old Joys.
9:12
Speaker 1: It definitely good.
9:14
Speaker 7: That.
9:14
Speaker 4: Do you have like New Year's movies that you watch?
9:18
Speaker 5: Ooh, well, I have one that I have a saft
9:22
Speaker 5: spot for. It is not a movie that is that
9:24
Speaker 5: is was well received at the time. But have y'all
9:26
Speaker 5: ever seen two hundred cigarettes?
9:28
Speaker 1: Oh no.
9:30
Speaker 5: So it's a movie that, like, it's one of those
9:32
Speaker 5: ensemble cast movies. Basically, it's like, I think it takes
9:36
Speaker 5: place in nineteen eighty nine.
9:38
Speaker 3: It's New Year's Eve of nineteen eighty nine.
9:40
Speaker 5: It came out in nineteen ninety nine, and it's all
9:43
Speaker 5: these different characters all trying to make plans for New
9:45
Speaker 5: Year's Eve.
9:46
Speaker 3: And it's one of those movies that came.
9:48
Speaker 5: Out just at the perfect right time where the cast
9:51
Speaker 5: is got the most interesting ensemble. Cast is like Kate Hudson,
9:55
Speaker 5: Paul Rudd, Christina Rici, Courtney Love, Ben Affleck very interesting. Asked,
10:00
Speaker 5: it's not a movie that like, I'm not gonna say
10:03
Speaker 5: it's a good movie because it's not. But it's a
10:05
Speaker 5: movie that you if you watch it, you will not
10:06
Speaker 5: not enjoy it. I'll put it that way.
10:08
Speaker 3: Janine Garofalo, I think.
10:12
Speaker 4: I have seen that.
10:13
Speaker 6: I think I have and it's been so long ago
10:16
Speaker 6: and I've probably watched it because of Janine Garofalo lo
10:20
Speaker 6: her during that age.
10:22
Speaker 5: I feel like the nineties, the late nineties, there was
10:25
Speaker 5: such a Janine Garoffo renaissance happening, like she was in everything,
10:29
Speaker 5: She's great and everything.
10:31
Speaker 3: We love her.
10:32
Speaker 6: Yes, I was, because she was the normal girl and
10:34
Speaker 6: it made me feel seen. I was like and also
10:37
Speaker 6: I had like she has Asian, is she part Asia?
10:39
Speaker 6: She looks, she looks.
10:40
Speaker 4: She looks not white, she's got her hair.
10:44
Speaker 6: There's something that's just like maybe I had the small hopes.
10:48
Speaker 5: Can I tell you a this has nothing to do
10:51
Speaker 5: with anything, but can I tell you a random fun
10:54
Speaker 5: fact about Gine Garoffalo please yes.
10:57
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
10:57
Speaker 5: Why, but for some reason I was like, I wonder
10:59
Speaker 5: if garofflo I was married. We never hear about her
11:01
Speaker 5: having a partner. What's the deal? So I looked it
11:03
Speaker 5: up and what I found was that Jenny Garoffalo is married.
11:08
Speaker 5: And when she got engaged, she went to get married,
11:12
Speaker 5: and surprise, surprise, she found out that she was in
11:14
Speaker 5: fact already married because years earlier she had participated in
11:19
Speaker 5: some kind of a skit or a prank where she
11:21
Speaker 5: got married and did not realize that that was like
11:24
Speaker 5: a real marriage.
11:25
Speaker 3: So when she get married, look this up. It sounds
11:28
Speaker 3: like I'm making where I am not.
11:30
Speaker 5: When she went to get married, she was like, oh, snap,
11:33
Speaker 5: turns out I'm already married. So she had to get
11:35
Speaker 5: that marriage dealt with before she could get married for real.
11:39
Speaker 4: Oh that is amazing. I did not know that. And
11:43
Speaker 4: thank you for this information.
11:45
Speaker 5: Just a random piece of information about Jenny Garoffalo.
11:50
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like she, as with many of us,
11:56
Speaker 2: getting to the end of the new year, wanted to
11:58
Speaker 2: leave something behind masterful as always, Yes, thank you. I
12:07
Speaker 2: was worried it wasn't gonna happen. But I made it
12:09
Speaker 2: happen anyway.
12:10
Speaker 4: He did.
12:21
Speaker 2: For the topic today that you brought us, you're talking
12:23
Speaker 2: about some of the things tech in the tech world
12:27
Speaker 2: that we should leave behind, are wanting exactly?
12:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you all know that cartoon that you might
12:34
Speaker 5: see on Twitter a lot, where it's like a woman
12:37
Speaker 5: stepping from one year to the next, and behind her
12:40
Speaker 5: she's leaving behind all of this baggage from the previous year,
12:43
Speaker 5: like fake friends or heartbreak, and then across over her
12:46
Speaker 5: shoulder she's carrying what she's carrying into the next year,
12:49
Speaker 5: So like love or focus. Do you know the image
12:52
Speaker 5: that I'm talking about?
12:53
Speaker 1: I don't. I had never seen it, but I'm looking
12:57
Speaker 1: at it now.
12:59
Speaker 5: Yes, So buzzfact about that image. It was created by
13:03
Speaker 5: a British Ghanaian graphic artist name Penniel and Chill and
13:07
Speaker 5: it first appeared on the internet in twenty fourteen and
13:10
Speaker 5: BuzzFeed has a great interview with her. But basically, this
13:13
Speaker 5: image has been totally memified and it kind of pops
13:16
Speaker 5: up around this time of year every year to sort
13:19
Speaker 5: of fit the theme of like New Year, New me.
13:22
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's a joke, which this artist says that she
13:24
Speaker 5: doesn't always agree with or like the way that people
13:26
Speaker 5: like do their spins on it. But it's really become
13:29
Speaker 5: a part of like the shorthand of this time of
13:31
Speaker 5: year of like what we're leaving behind and what we're
13:33
Speaker 5: taking with us into the new year. So when that
13:36
Speaker 5: picture was making its rounds recently around this time of year,
13:40
Speaker 5: you know, I had just wrapped up podcasting for my
13:43
Speaker 5: own podcast. There are no girls on the internet talking
13:45
Speaker 5: about technology and identity and really asking questions about like
13:49
Speaker 5: what we get right and what we get wrong, you know,
13:51
Speaker 5: in those in those arenas. So this image got me
13:54
Speaker 5: thinking what tech things should just stay in twenty twenty
13:58
Speaker 5: three and that we should not be bringing with us
14:00
Speaker 5: into twenty twenty four. So I've got my list of
14:03
Speaker 5: things that should stay. We're like, we're done with them,
14:06
Speaker 5: We're not we should not be bringing them with us
14:08
Speaker 5: into the new year.
14:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was thinking about this too. This has
14:12
Speaker 2: been a big year for tech. This has felt like
14:14
Speaker 2: a very monumental, like a lot of things are changing,
14:17
Speaker 2: and still looking at this list, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
14:22
Speaker 2: it can feel strange because time feels so strange now.
14:25
Speaker 2: But that did all happen this year. Yeah, so what
14:29
Speaker 2: is on your list?
14:30
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
14:31
Speaker 5: So, as you said, like it's been a big year
14:33
Speaker 5: for conversations around technology, that they're big right now, and
14:36
Speaker 5: I would say there probably is not a bigger conversation
14:40
Speaker 5: than the one happening around AI. Right So we're all
14:43
Speaker 5: like rightly talking about how AI could change the way
14:46
Speaker 5: that we do our jobs or the way that artistic
14:48
Speaker 5: projects get created, and those are all important conversations to
14:51
Speaker 5: be having. But there is one very serious conversation about
14:54
Speaker 5: the reality of AI, and that is how AI is
14:57
Speaker 5: being used to do things like violate consent and further
15:00
Speaker 5: use technology to make it seem like our bodies are
15:03
Speaker 5: just like up for grabs once we show up online.
15:06
Speaker 3: So case in point newdify apps. So newdifi apps.
15:10
Speaker 5: Are kind of the catch all term for apps or
15:14
Speaker 5: platforms that promise to use AI to generate non consensual
15:18
Speaker 5: nude or semi nude images of anyone. These kinds of
15:22
Speaker 5: apps have been exploding in popularity. In September alone, twenty
15:26
Speaker 5: four million people visited newdify apps or undressing websites, according
15:30
Speaker 5: to the social network analysis company Graphica. So in their analysis,
15:34
Speaker 5: they really talk about how we've how this year specifically,
15:38
Speaker 5: we've seen this shift where newdify apps kind of went
15:42
Speaker 5: from this niche, underground custom thing where like, if you
15:46
Speaker 5: were like a singular creep who had a singular fixation
15:50
Speaker 5: on one person, you could find a marketplace for non
15:54
Speaker 5: consensual images to be made of somebody, but it was
15:57
Speaker 5: like a niche custom thing. Now in twenty twenty three,
16:01
Speaker 5: we have really seen that shift to where these are
16:05
Speaker 5: fleshed out, monetized online businesses, complete with advertising apparatuses. Graphica
16:11
Speaker 5: found that the volume of referral link spam for these
16:14
Speaker 5: kinds of services has increased by more than two thousand
16:17
Speaker 5: percent on social media platforms like Reddit in Twitter since
16:21
Speaker 5: the beginning of twenty twenty three, and this set of
16:23
Speaker 5: fifty two Telegram groups used to access non consensual image
16:27
Speaker 5: sites like these contain at least one million users as
16:30
Speaker 5: of September of twenty twenty three.
16:32
Speaker 3: So they have really exploded in popularity.
16:35
Speaker 5: Yet I think that we're only now, like only recently
16:39
Speaker 5: come to have any kind of conversation about what that means,
16:42
Speaker 5: not just for you know, the women who are overwhelmingly
16:46
Speaker 5: targeted by these kinds of apps, but also what it
16:49
Speaker 5: means for our digital landscape more broadly.
16:51
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm not gonna lie. None of this is familiar
16:55
Speaker 6: to me as many social media things as I'm involved in.
16:59
Speaker 4: Didn't know this was a thing. Didn't know.
17:02
Speaker 3: It's pretty despicable. It first got on my radar.
17:06
Speaker 5: It first seemed to be rolled out to like more
17:10
Speaker 5: mainstream platforms with celebrities, so it'll be like, oh, you
17:13
Speaker 5: can get a nude of any celebrity. And now it's like,
17:17
Speaker 5: not just celebrities, it's like anybody who can get it.
17:19
Speaker 5: You can generate a non consensual nude of anybody. And
17:22
Speaker 5: so one of the ways that this is becoming more
17:25
Speaker 5: and more ubiquitous is just seeing the advertisements for it
17:29
Speaker 5: on social media. After some journalists at Bloomberg were looking
17:33
Speaker 5: into the popularity of these kinds of apps, they contacted
17:36
Speaker 5: both TikTok and Facebook to ask them about you know, Okay,
17:40
Speaker 5: it seems like these really gross apps are being allowed
17:43
Speaker 5: to advertise on your platforms, and both Facebook and TikTok
17:47
Speaker 5: I will say, you know, to their credit when Bloomberg
17:50
Speaker 5: reached out to them, they both did some work to
17:54
Speaker 5: block search terms related to neudified apps, but one social
17:58
Speaker 5: media platform notably did not do that.
18:00
Speaker 3: Can you guess what platform that was? It was Twitter?
18:06
Speaker 4: Twitter.
18:07
Speaker 6: Obviously I'm not calling you a name's.
18:11
Speaker 5: Call on Twitter still, so it was Twitter. They were like,
18:17
Speaker 5: we're actually fine with these neuify apps, Like we don't
18:19
Speaker 5: see a problem. Uh so this is from vice. Searching
18:23
Speaker 5: the word undress on TikTok brings up no results in
18:26
Speaker 5: either the top or video tabs. Instead, the platform warns
18:30
Speaker 5: users that the phrase may be associated with activity that
18:32
Speaker 5: violates the platform's guidelines. Searching the same term on Instagram
18:36
Speaker 5: similarly brings up no results. Searching undress on Twitter, however,
18:40
Speaker 5: readily surfaces a verified account with nearly twenty thousand followers,
18:44
Speaker 5: promoting new TOFI app services. So let's say that you
18:48
Speaker 5: were to search Twitter for the word in dress instead
18:50
Speaker 5: of undress. Twitter is actually like, wait, were you actually
18:54
Speaker 5: meeting to search for undressed? And it prompts you to
18:57
Speaker 5: search for undress instead. So where other platforms are like, no,
19:00
Speaker 5: we can't have that on our on our platforms, Twitter
19:03
Speaker 5: is like not just allowing it on platforms, but like
19:05
Speaker 5: helping people to search it when they when they get
19:07
Speaker 5: it wrong, And so you might see people if you
19:10
Speaker 5: ever see newdify apps advertise on these platforms, sometimes they
19:16
Speaker 5: like the a word is misspelled, or like there's a
19:18
Speaker 5: space between cople some of the letters to try to
19:21
Speaker 5: evade being picked up and like knocked off the platform,
19:24
Speaker 5: But it generally this does not seem like Twitter has
19:27
Speaker 5: a problem with these kinds of services being advertised on
19:29
Speaker 5: their platform.
19:30
Speaker 6: And I feel like this is a big question with
19:32
Speaker 6: like legalities, especially on public platforms like that in general.
19:37
Speaker 6: But like I'm talking about doing news and such like,
19:41
Speaker 6: it seems like it should be illegal. It seems like
19:43
Speaker 6: this could be one of those things, especially like if
19:45
Speaker 6: you think about revenge porn and all of that being
19:47
Speaker 6: illegal in so many places, Like is that not a thing?
19:51
Speaker 4: Is that?
19:51
Speaker 6: Can you not take it to court or at least
19:54
Speaker 6: try to stop these images from happening?
19:56
Speaker 3: So that is a great question. When I first saw these,
19:58
Speaker 3: I was like, this has got to be illegal, And
20:00
Speaker 3: it turns out.
20:01
Speaker 5: That right now, depending on where you live, it is
20:05
Speaker 5: probably not illegal to do this.
20:08
Speaker 3: It depends on your jurisdiction. But there is.
20:10
Speaker 5: Currently no federal law criminalizing using AI to generate non
20:15
Speaker 5: consensual deep fake images. Representative Evet Clark out of New
20:19
Speaker 5: York has actually proposed legislation that would criminalize making, you know,
20:24
Speaker 5: non consensual deep fakes, But as of right now, kind
20:27
Speaker 5: of unbelievably, there is not any legislation federally that prevents
20:32
Speaker 5: somebody from doing that. And yeah, I just think that, like,
20:36
Speaker 5: as this kind of technology becomes more ubiquitous in our culture,
20:41
Speaker 5: I think it adds to this idea that just by
20:45
Speaker 5: showing up on the Internet, women are fair game for
20:48
Speaker 5: anybody who wants to sexualize us, and that I think
20:50
Speaker 5: it's getting to be getting to a point where the
20:54
Speaker 5: idea is like, well, if you didn't want someone to
20:57
Speaker 5: use your images in that way, why don't you post
20:59
Speaker 5: them to Instagram?
21:00
Speaker 3: Right Like?
21:01
Speaker 5: And I think that we really got to have a
21:03
Speaker 5: real serious think and a serious conversation about if that
21:08
Speaker 5: is going to be a social media climate that we want.
21:11
Speaker 5: And I think that that kind of thinking is the
21:13
Speaker 5: kind of thicky that we need to leave behind in
21:14
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, right like, women should be able to
21:17
Speaker 5: show up online without non consensual sexualization just being the
21:22
Speaker 5: cost of showing up, And so let's leave that behind
21:25
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four.
21:26
Speaker 3: We are not bringing it with.
21:27
Speaker 6: Us please please.
21:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's one of the very frustrating things, since
21:35
Speaker 2: I did see a lot about this, and we even
21:38
Speaker 2: had an episode bridget about it about journalists getting targeted
21:42
Speaker 2: by stuffy and revenge porn and things like that, and
21:46
Speaker 2: this is just making it so much easier and it's
21:48
Speaker 2: harder to for some people, for all of us to
21:53
Speaker 2: ascertain like what is real and what is not real.
21:55
Speaker 2: But it does kind of disproportionately impact women in march lines, folks.
22:01
Speaker 2: And that's just one example of technology doing that that
22:04
Speaker 2: you have on your list, right.
22:07
Speaker 5: Yes, And I think, like, just like what you said,
22:10
Speaker 5: I think that there are specific groups that we see
22:13
Speaker 5: being targeted for this kind of harm first, and then it's.
22:16
Speaker 3: Like oh nah, And then like when those groups.
22:18
Speaker 5: When it's allowed to happen to those groups, it's like, oh, well,
22:22
Speaker 5: you know, nobody really does anything. And then it's like,
22:24
Speaker 5: oh surprise, Now it's everybody's problem. Now we just live
22:27
Speaker 5: in a society where like this is commonplace. And like
22:30
Speaker 5: maybe when this was happening to specific groups of people,
22:33
Speaker 5: if we had done something and taken it seriously, then
22:35
Speaker 5: we wouldn't have allowed it to just become ubiquitous, right,
22:38
Speaker 5: and I don't think anybody wants to live in a
22:39
Speaker 5: culture where anybody is fair game just because they were
22:44
Speaker 5: all they put a picture of themselves on the Internet
22:46
Speaker 5: to have that picture be distorted and sexualized. So absolutely right.
22:50
Speaker 5: So that brings me to another thing that we should
22:53
Speaker 5: not be taking with us into twenty twenty four, and
22:56
Speaker 5: that it's content moderation policies that really hurt women and
22:59
Speaker 5: other marched people.
23:01
Speaker 3: So, as we were talking.
23:02
Speaker 5: About with AI right now, AI is used in content
23:05
Speaker 5: moderation that really does a lot of the work of
23:09
Speaker 5: deciding what gets amplified and what gets suppressed on social media.
23:13
Speaker 5: This technology, however, also objectifies women's bodies, and it's much
23:18
Speaker 5: more likely to flag images that involve women or include
23:21
Speaker 5: women as racy or inappropriate, and thus those images are
23:25
Speaker 5: more likely to be suppressed on social media sites. So
23:28
Speaker 5: The Guardian actually put together like a really interesting investigation
23:31
Speaker 5: into this where they had journalists use AI tools to
23:34
Speaker 5: analyze hundreds of photos of men and women in their underwear,
23:37
Speaker 5: working out, using medical tests and with partial nudity, and
23:40
Speaker 5: found that the AI used will tag photos of women
23:43
Speaker 5: in everyday situations as sexually suggestive.
23:46
Speaker 3: So I'm talking about images of like women.
23:49
Speaker 5: In their underwear fully covered, or women working out at
23:53
Speaker 5: the gym fully covered, right, like images that we would
23:56
Speaker 5: recognize as not racy, but because they include women, the
24:00
Speaker 5: tools that are being used to make decisions about how
24:03
Speaker 5: content is moderated will be like, no, that's racy, can't
24:06
Speaker 5: have that on social media. And so as a result
24:09
Speaker 5: of this, social media companies that leverage these algorithms have
24:13
Speaker 5: suppressed honestly countless images of featuring women's bodies. We know
24:18
Speaker 5: that this hurts women led businesses, and this is reading
24:21
Speaker 5: about how a shapewear company essentially can't advertise on social
24:26
Speaker 5: media because images of women's bodies fully covered in shapewear
24:32
Speaker 5: will just be suppressed by these algorithms, and they essentially
24:35
Speaker 5: cannot advertise their product on social media, which is like
24:37
Speaker 5: where you advertise products in twenty twenty three, this also like,
24:41
Speaker 5: not only does it hurt female led businesses, it also
24:44
Speaker 5: has medical impacts. They found that this disparity is also
24:48
Speaker 5: true for medical images. AI was shown images from the
24:51
Speaker 5: US National Cancer Institute demonstrating how to do a clinical
24:55
Speaker 5: breast exam. Google's AI gave this photo the highest score
24:59
Speaker 5: for race Microsoft's AI was eighty two percent confident that
25:03
Speaker 5: these images of women doing breast exams was explicit sexually
25:08
Speaker 5: in nature, and Amazon classified it as representing explicit nudity.
25:13
Speaker 5: This is also true for pregnant bellies, like if you're
25:16
Speaker 5: if you are heavily pregnant and showing a pregnant belly
25:20
Speaker 5: on social media platforms, AI is much more likely to
25:24
Speaker 5: deem that image to be racy and then suppress that
25:27
Speaker 5: in their content moderation tools. And so you really get
25:29
Speaker 5: a sense of the way that these platforms are creating
25:33
Speaker 5: a disproportionate cost for being a woman who shows up online,
25:38
Speaker 5: Like it prevents women from being able to express themselves,
25:40
Speaker 5: it prevents women from being able to get medical information
25:43
Speaker 5: about our bodies, and ultimately it's just not fair, like
25:46
Speaker 5: we shouldn't have to deal with this just because we
25:48
Speaker 5: showed up on our social media platform with our bodies, Like,
25:50
Speaker 5: there's nothing wrong with women's bodies, they're they're not racy
25:54
Speaker 5: or explicit just by us having.
25:55
Speaker 2: Them right, right, And I believe Smith and I we
26:00
Speaker 2: talked about this about YouTube because YouTube had a similar
26:03
Speaker 2: strange thing that was happening where it was flagging videos
26:06
Speaker 2: of children. The young girls is just like, this is
26:10
Speaker 2: so sexual and it's just like literally young girls, and
26:13
Speaker 2: it's telling to what is going on in our society,
26:19
Speaker 2: the problems of objectifying and sexualizing women. But also this
26:22
Speaker 2: is a big thing that we talked about with you,
26:24
Speaker 2: Bridget when it matters who's making these things, who's doing
26:29
Speaker 2: this stuff, and AI is a pretty new space, but
26:32
Speaker 2: I've already seen a lot of conversations about that, about
26:35
Speaker 2: the importance of who is working on it.
26:39
Speaker 1: So that's part of what is going on here, right, totally.
26:43
Speaker 5: So The Guardian spoke to Margaret Mitchell of the AI
26:46
Speaker 5: company Hugging Face, who said that she believes that the
26:49
Speaker 5: photos used to train these algorithms were probably just being
26:52
Speaker 5: labeled by straight men who probably associate men working out
26:56
Speaker 5: with fitness, but maybe consider an image of a woman
27:00
Speaker 5: and working out as being like racy or sexual or explicit,
27:04
Speaker 5: even though it's like the same theme, the same content.
27:07
Speaker 5: And so it's possible that these ratings seem gender biased
27:10
Speaker 5: in the US and in Europe because the labelers might
27:13
Speaker 5: be from a place that might have more conservative cultures, right,
27:16
Speaker 5: And so yeah, it really matters who is building technology,
27:20
Speaker 5: who's in the room and the technology gets built, who
27:22
Speaker 5: is training it, who is rolling it out, who is
27:24
Speaker 5: thinking about it, who's writing about it, who's talking about it.
27:27
Speaker 5: If these people are mostly men, then like, of course
27:32
Speaker 5: women and other marginalized people are not showing up in
27:35
Speaker 5: an equitable way. With all the conversations that we have
27:38
Speaker 5: around things like inclusion and diversity and.
27:41
Speaker 3: Equity in tech, I'm not like harping on those.
27:44
Speaker 5: Just because it's like nice to do or it's like
27:46
Speaker 5: the right thing to do, which it is. It is
27:48
Speaker 5: because eventually the technology that gets built is worse, is
27:53
Speaker 5: less inclusive, is more dangerous, like it includes less people,
27:56
Speaker 5: and that ends up hurting all of us.
27:58
Speaker 1: Yes, it does.
28:00
Speaker 2: And speaking of that, you have another point on here,
28:02
Speaker 2: going back to something we were talking about earlier about
28:05
Speaker 2: women in journalism.
28:07
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so I'm so glad that was a great transition,
28:12
Speaker 5: which is that you know, it's like one of the
28:15
Speaker 5: reasons why I started my own podcast about this is
28:18
Speaker 5: that we unfortunately have a tech culture that can treat
28:24
Speaker 5: women like perpetual outsiders, right, whether by accident or with intention,
28:30
Speaker 5: and that is something that we got to leave in
28:31
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. Really, we could have left it like
28:34
Speaker 5: in like many many many years past.
28:37
Speaker 3: But this is the time that we should be.
28:38
Speaker 5: Leaving it in the past because exactly what you said,
28:41
Speaker 5: it is so critical. These tools are going to be
28:44
Speaker 5: shaping our world and how we understand our world.
28:47
Speaker 3: So we've got to make.
28:48
Speaker 5: Sure that people who are publicly talking about it and
28:51
Speaker 5: are included in that conversation are done so in a
28:54
Speaker 5: way that does not treat them like perpetual outsiders. And
28:56
Speaker 5: so women who are working for that AI company that
29:00
Speaker 5: I mentioned before, Hugging Face, what you can sort of
29:02
Speaker 5: think of as like a competitor to Open AI, the
29:05
Speaker 5: company that makes chat GPT, which is run by.
29:07
Speaker 3: That guy Sam Altman.
29:08
Speaker 5: Hugging Face has a lot of women who work there,
29:11
Speaker 5: and these women do a ton of.
29:13
Speaker 3: Like public speaking about tech and AI.
29:15
Speaker 5: And the media, which is great, and I also think
29:19
Speaker 5: again it's important because it can help to change the
29:21
Speaker 5: face of like who we think of as somebody who
29:24
Speaker 5: gets to speak or gets to have an opinion when
29:26
Speaker 5: it comes to technology, and that's great. However, the women
29:29
Speaker 5: at hugging Face also noticed that when they were doing
29:32
Speaker 5: public speaking about AI with the press, they sometimes would
29:35
Speaker 5: get like sexist or otherwise kind of messed up questions
29:39
Speaker 5: during interviews that just like really highlighted that they were
29:42
Speaker 5: not necessarily being treated like people who belonged in the space.
29:49
Speaker 5: Margaret Mitchell, she is Hugging Face as chief Ethics scientist,
29:53
Speaker 5: framed it as a research question. She asked what are
29:55
Speaker 5: patterns and how journalists talk to and about women and AI.
29:59
Speaker 5: She found that compared to male peers, there is a
30:02
Speaker 5: disproportionate focus from the press on their ages, their motherhood,
30:07
Speaker 5: their physical appearance or behaviors, their failures, and what AI
30:12
Speaker 5: gossip they could provide, rather than their like technical work.
30:16
Speaker 5: And these are people who are incredibly accomplished. They're like
30:20
Speaker 5: doing very important works that they've gone to school for
30:22
Speaker 5: been trained for. In an article, if you get to
30:25
Speaker 5: interview them and you ask about their age, or you
30:28
Speaker 5: ask if they have kids, or you ask you know,
30:30
Speaker 5: about their the way they look, it's it's so limiting
30:33
Speaker 5: because it's like you have somebody who has dedicated their
30:35
Speaker 5: life to this very important technology and this is what
30:38
Speaker 5: you ask them.
30:39
Speaker 3: Like it's such a it's such a miss on part
30:41
Speaker 3: on the part of the journalists.
30:43
Speaker 6: It's like I thought you by now at this point
30:47
Speaker 6: in AI, there would be more things to talk about.
30:49
Speaker 6: There's so many questions that we should be asking again,
30:52
Speaker 6: things like how are how are sexist issues being handled
30:55
Speaker 6: in AI? How are you protecting women in AI? And
30:58
Speaker 6: not about the person be like, so you got a kid,
31:03
Speaker 6: you gotta be on the computer while you have a kid.
31:05
Speaker 6: How are you gonna do that? Like this seems so
31:08
Speaker 6: like far foot, Like why is this? Is this a
31:10
Speaker 6: scot are you? Are we still doing this?
31:13
Speaker 5: What's frustrating is like they would never ask a man.
31:17
Speaker 5: If you were talking to like a powerful man, you
31:19
Speaker 5: would never be like, oh, well, who watches your kids
31:21
Speaker 5: while you're working? Or like how do how do how
31:23
Speaker 5: do you juggle being a dad and like being a scientist?
31:27
Speaker 5: Like these are things that would not that like would
31:29
Speaker 5: not come up. They're only coming up because they're women.
31:41
Speaker 5: Doctor Sasha Lucioni, who was an AI researcher and a
31:44
Speaker 5: climate lead at Hucking Face, was in this like pretty glowing.
31:48
Speaker 3: Piece for Adweek.
31:49
Speaker 5: The piece was great, but the headline to the article
31:52
Speaker 5: read this AI ethics expert juggles motherhood and a tech
31:56
Speaker 5: career and people had to like raise hell to get
31:59
Speaker 5: them to change it and Yeah, it's just like I
32:02
Speaker 5: do think that there is a place for conversations about
32:05
Speaker 5: what it looks like to juggle career and family and
32:10
Speaker 5: all of that, But those are not conversations that should
32:13
Speaker 5: only be happening to women, and there's a time and
32:15
Speaker 5: a place for them, right, Like, if you're meant to
32:17
Speaker 5: be interviewing somebody about their technical prowess, that I don't
32:20
Speaker 5: see how that is relevant to their technical expertise.
32:24
Speaker 6: Right, And that piece in the self the title is
32:26
Speaker 6: so condescending? Is that definitely like Ah.
32:28
Speaker 4: Look at you, how cute? Look at you doing that?
32:31
Speaker 6: You go, you go, girl, I'm so proud of you,
32:34
Speaker 6: instead of seeing this professional scientist who has more degrees
32:37
Speaker 6: and more experience than the person who actually probably wrote
32:40
Speaker 6: the article. I don't know for sure, but just that
32:43
Speaker 6: level of like, wow, really, what are you doing? Like
32:46
Speaker 6: is it because you feel insecure that you need to
32:48
Speaker 6: be condescending but maybe like passive aggressively like but no, no, no,
32:51
Speaker 6: I'm really impressed.
32:52
Speaker 5: Really it is so condescending, and so, in an effort
32:56
Speaker 5: to help the space be better, the women who work
32:59
Speaker 5: at Hugging actually developed a guide for journalists.
33:02
Speaker 3: To help get it right.
33:03
Speaker 5: To help create a better dynamic so that it's not
33:06
Speaker 5: just condescending question and sexist question after sex's question, the
33:11
Speaker 5: guide reads, the real achievements of women on our team
33:14
Speaker 5: often get overshadowed by a focus on personal and sometimes
33:17
Speaker 5: very intrusive details that are not relevant to their work.
33:20
Speaker 5: With all the amazing press attention we get at hugging Face,
33:23
Speaker 5: we're bound to see some journalists rely on outdated tropes. Lately,
33:26
Speaker 5: we've seen more reporters ignoring our amazing achievements of our
33:29
Speaker 5: shees and days and instead focusing on stereotypes in tech.
33:33
Speaker 5: One of the things that I love about the guys
33:35
Speaker 5: that they put out is that it really highlights the
33:39
Speaker 5: importance of not treating tech like a place where women
33:43
Speaker 5: don't belong. And so, for instance, the guide reads, don't
33:46
Speaker 5: rely on antiquated stereotypes about women in tech. This includes
33:50
Speaker 5: describing women as outsiders in the field, which only serves
33:53
Speaker 5: to reinforce the idea that women don't belong in tech.
33:56
Speaker 5: An example of a problematic sentence they give despite being
34:00
Speaker 5: a woman in a male dominated field. Brooke Brookie has
34:02
Speaker 5: made a name for herself in the tech industry. Better
34:06
Speaker 5: is through her brilliant results on magic and large language models.
34:09
Speaker 5: Brooke Brookie made a name for herself in the tech industry.
34:12
Speaker 5: And so this I think is really key, and I
34:15
Speaker 5: think people do this without even really meaning to you,
34:19
Speaker 5: is that the tech industry, women and queer folks and
34:23
Speaker 5: trans folks and black folks and folks with disabilities and
34:27
Speaker 5: all different kinds of people who are traditionally marginaliznsed in
34:30
Speaker 5: our society have been at the beginning of technology and
34:33
Speaker 5: have been since the very start.
34:35
Speaker 3: We have this.
34:36
Speaker 5: Idea that like, oh, tech is this like white male
34:38
Speaker 5: cis boys club and anybody else is trying to break
34:41
Speaker 5: their way in, and that's I can understand why people
34:43
Speaker 5: feel that way, But we have been there from the
34:46
Speaker 5: very beginning. And if you don't always hear our stories
34:49
Speaker 5: or our voices, it's.
34:50
Speaker 3: Not because we're not there.
34:51
Speaker 5: It's because specific choices have been made to keep to
34:54
Speaker 5: like sideline US and to turn down our voices. And
34:57
Speaker 5: so really starting from a place that like, we do
35:00
Speaker 5: belong in these conversations, we do belong in tech, we
35:03
Speaker 5: do belong in the sector.
35:04
Speaker 3: We're not outsiders, I.
35:06
Speaker 5: Think is really really important, and it also just really
35:10
Speaker 5: matters you know, if the people who are building technology
35:14
Speaker 5: and talking about technology and thinking about technology are only
35:18
Speaker 5: one type of person, the tech that gets built is
35:21
Speaker 5: gonna be a.
35:21
Speaker 3: Whole lot worse.
35:22
Speaker 5: And so all of us benefit when more voices are
35:25
Speaker 5: included and feel included and feel empowered to join the conversation.
35:29
Speaker 6: You would think that would be an obvious and also
35:31
Speaker 6: that it would be it would save money, It would
35:33
Speaker 6: save money, and all the revamping and redoing of everything
35:37
Speaker 6: that you knew, well, I would expect you knew, but
35:41
Speaker 6: that could go wrong when you don't have the right
35:44
Speaker 6: people or all the people at least represented in this conversation,
35:47
Speaker 6: especially if you're wanting these people to use your technology.
35:55
Speaker 5: You're so right, And like, what's interesting is I once
35:57
Speaker 5: read this book called Mothers of Invention, all about how
36:01
Speaker 5: things like misogyny and bias around women stifle innovation. And
36:06
Speaker 5: something that's really struck me from that book is how
36:09
Speaker 5: much money gets left on the table because of things
36:12
Speaker 5: like gender bias and misogyny. It's like, you would think
36:15
Speaker 5: in a capitalistic society that for profit companies would want
36:18
Speaker 5: money above anything. You might be surprised because they are
36:22
Speaker 5: perfectly willing to lose money if it means further entrenching
36:27
Speaker 5: gender bias and massogeity.
36:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is so nonsensical.
36:32
Speaker 6: Right, I guess it's power over money, even though money
36:34
Speaker 6: could be considered power.
36:36
Speaker 7: Yeah.
36:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were doing I was trying to do a
36:40
Speaker 2: wrap up episode like this about video games and board games,
36:44
Speaker 2: and I ran across kind of a stunning, upsetting amount
36:49
Speaker 2: of how often people are in power who are Dudes
36:54
Speaker 2: were like, it's just women don't make good stuff, and
36:59
Speaker 2: they would literally be like, uh, people don't buy those things,
37:02
Speaker 2: those party games, Why yes they do.
37:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, look at the demographics of who is actually playing
37:10
Speaker 5: video games. It is a lot of women, and so
37:12
Speaker 5: sat like, I think not making video games and stuff
37:18
Speaker 5: that like women want when a big chunk of your
37:21
Speaker 5: customer base just is women, it's a fact that is
37:24
Speaker 5: on you, that is like you don't know how to
37:25
Speaker 5: do it or unwilling to do it. It's like any
37:29
Speaker 5: anything that you could say, it's just an excuse to
37:30
Speaker 5: not do it.
37:31
Speaker 6: Right, Like you look at animal crossing and the fact
37:34
Speaker 6: they may bank, especially during COVID and quarantine, and you're
37:39
Speaker 6: like you sure, are you sure?
37:42
Speaker 1: Yeah?
37:43
Speaker 2: This guy in question was he was saying like all
37:45
Speaker 2: the games women like to play, which are like, in
37:48
Speaker 2: his mind, are much more too political or two like parties,
37:53
Speaker 2: like animal Mobile games like aren't good and don't make money,
37:58
Speaker 2: and it's like, uh.
38:00
Speaker 3: But are you sure.
38:03
Speaker 4: I can't?
38:04
Speaker 3: Why?
38:05
Speaker 6: Oh?
38:06
Speaker 2: This also reminds me of it's kind of upsetting, but
38:09
Speaker 2: it reminds me of when Sally Ride was, you know,
38:13
Speaker 2: getting ready to go to space, and they would have
38:16
Speaker 2: these press conferences with her and all these men and
38:19
Speaker 2: the men they're asking like all these like questions related
38:22
Speaker 2: to the jab and her.
38:23
Speaker 1: They'd be like, how are you going to put your
38:25
Speaker 1: makeup on space?
38:29
Speaker 3: What it has?
38:33
Speaker 6: It? Like?
38:33
Speaker 2: It's still there that kind of we still gender these things,
38:38
Speaker 2: and we still other people, and it does really matter
38:40
Speaker 2: who's writing about it and who whose stories are getting
38:44
Speaker 2: published or getting that traction, because you know, if it's
38:50
Speaker 2: mostly white men's stories who's getting like all of the attention,
38:55
Speaker 2: then that does help reinforce this idea that yeah, it's
38:57
Speaker 2: this white male space when it isn't.
39:00
Speaker 1: Has it been? As you said?
39:01
Speaker 5: Yeah, did you ever hear? I mean, I'm sure you
39:04
Speaker 5: all have heard this story. But it really sticks with
39:06
Speaker 5: me that when Sally Ride was going to space. She's
39:08
Speaker 5: gonna be there for one week, and the like scientists
39:12
Speaker 5: or engineers at NASA whoever, were like, they gave her
39:15
Speaker 5: a hunt. Was it two hundred tampons or one hundred tampons?
39:18
Speaker 3: She gonna be there for one week?
39:20
Speaker 5: And when she was like, oh, one hundred tampons, they
39:22
Speaker 5: were like, will that be enough? Like these are the
39:26
Speaker 5: greatest scientific mott like, right, nobody can tell me that,
39:29
Speaker 5: like male scientists are like better than women when that's
39:34
Speaker 5: what's going on with our male second.
39:37
Speaker 2: Right, I can you imagine if you honestly believe that
39:40
Speaker 2: was true and then for to expect the women in
39:44
Speaker 2: your life or the people who menstraight in your life
39:47
Speaker 2: to just.
39:48
Speaker 1: Be going through two hundred tampots.
39:50
Speaker 6: In a way, we have to pay that much when
39:53
Speaker 6: you were like looking at tampons and they're like thirty
39:55
Speaker 6: four ways of like eight dollars or thirty thirty.
40:00
Speaker 3: So it's like how much that I have so many questions?
40:02
Speaker 4: I have so many, so many questions.
40:04
Speaker 6: There's so many questions, and to be fair and like
40:07
Speaker 6: in everything, like how did you think this was gonna work?
40:09
Speaker 4: Like who invented this? This is not? This is this
40:12
Speaker 4: doesn't work like that, what are you doing?
40:14
Speaker 3: God?
40:15
Speaker 5: Sometimes like, Hugh, this is such a non secutor sometimes
40:19
Speaker 5: when I think about gender dynamics, like I remember reading
40:24
Speaker 5: this tweet from a guy who was like, people think
40:27
Speaker 5: Taylor Swift is so pretty, but here she is without makeup, And.
40:31
Speaker 3: It's like, did you think that she was born with
40:33
Speaker 3: cat eyes and like break red lips? And you thought
40:36
Speaker 3: all of us thought that. You clearly thought that, but
40:39
Speaker 3: you thought all of.
40:40
Speaker 5: Us thought that, Like and then you're like you're supposed
40:42
Speaker 5: to be getting one over on us women, Like the
40:45
Speaker 5: whole thing is just laughable.
40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like such a great example of who we
40:51
Speaker 2: consider the norm in society, whose experience we consider the
40:55
Speaker 2: norm we base it on, Because I I was thinking
40:59
Speaker 2: about that recently too, about this whole idea that I
41:03
Speaker 2: feel like has faded away largely but not always. But
41:07
Speaker 2: like women who would wake up early and put on
41:09
Speaker 2: makeup so their partner would not see them without makeup.
41:14
Speaker 2: So it's like it's like a lot of us feel
41:18
Speaker 2: that we have to do this thing because then we'll
41:22
Speaker 2: get this complaint from this random jackets on facial media.
41:27
Speaker 2: But then it's also like, dude, what do you think
41:30
Speaker 2: it's strange. It's like a strange dynamic that is happening
41:35
Speaker 2: where you feel the pressure to do it. But then
41:38
Speaker 2: also shouldn't they shouldn't people realize how much work.
41:42
Speaker 6: It is, right, Yeah, And it kind of goes into
41:45
Speaker 6: another question that I'm kind of concerned about. I've had,
41:48
Speaker 6: like I've been noticing more and more on TikTok they
41:50
Speaker 6: just have automatic filters, and a lot of people talk
41:53
Speaker 6: about the fact that they use different filters, especially because
41:55
Speaker 6: they don't want to wear makeup and all that, and
41:56
Speaker 6: this feels makes them feel better, which all, all in all,
41:59
Speaker 6: whatever you do, you but then this level of expectation
42:03
Speaker 6: that especially men, especially I must say sis heterosexual men,
42:08
Speaker 6: think that this is what you should look like and
42:11
Speaker 6: if you don't look like that in real life, holy
42:13
Speaker 6: catfished me and you've lied to me. Like in this
42:16
Speaker 6: new level of standard, a beauty standard, that might been like, Okay,
42:20
Speaker 6: this is good for us because it makes us kind
42:22
Speaker 6: of feel better. But at the same time, what is
42:24
Speaker 6: it leading to.
42:25
Speaker 3: That's such an interesting question. And I guess I just
42:28
Speaker 3: think that like.
42:31
Speaker 5: A lot of men, like SIS heterosexual men, I think,
42:35
Speaker 5: are really willing to live in a fantasy world like
42:39
Speaker 5: they're really like it's like if you if you think that,
42:42
Speaker 5: you know, some of those TikTok filters, they give you
42:45
Speaker 5: like glitter on your eyes, if you thought that, like
42:47
Speaker 5: somebody came out of the womb with like glitter on
42:49
Speaker 5: their eyes, like I sometimes it's it's honestly, it's one
42:53
Speaker 5: of the reasons why I don't really remove my body hair,
42:55
Speaker 5: because when you add up how much time it takes
42:57
Speaker 5: to do it, it's like, it's actually not it's a
42:59
Speaker 5: lot of work. And it's like, do I want to
43:02
Speaker 5: do extra work and pay whatever extra money it takes
43:05
Speaker 5: to by the razor and this and that to feed
43:07
Speaker 5: into a fantasy that.
43:09
Speaker 3: Adult women don't have body hair. No, I don't.
43:11
Speaker 5: Like if you're if you're like, you should by now
43:14
Speaker 5: know that adult women do you generally have body hair.
43:17
Speaker 5: And I'm not interested in perpetuating this like very weird
43:23
Speaker 5: fantasy world where this becomes how women are in the world.
43:26
Speaker 5: And then if you see a woman who is not
43:28
Speaker 5: doing that, it's it's not it's like out of sync
43:32
Speaker 5: with how you think women should exist. I guess I'll say,
43:33
Speaker 5: I I don't know if that makes sense.
43:35
Speaker 6: No, yeah, it absolutely does it kind of again, it
43:38
Speaker 6: fades into this narrative that women are supposed to be
43:41
Speaker 6: this higher level of beauty standard in order to fit
43:46
Speaker 6: with a norm which is so much less work for
43:49
Speaker 6: men in general.
43:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when we're looking at like tech, I mean,
43:56
Speaker 2: so many of the things that we've talked about on here,
43:58
Speaker 2: do you play into that, whether it's filters or social media,
44:01
Speaker 2: of these kind of beauty standards that are getting perpetuated.
44:06
Speaker 2: Just the vitriol women can receive just by here's my
44:13
Speaker 2: face on social media. So it is really unfortunate because
44:22
Speaker 2: it's it's we can't ignore that that does happen. And
44:25
Speaker 2: I know I've told the story before, but I have
44:27
Speaker 2: a lovely collage of all of the horrible things people
44:31
Speaker 2: have said to me online.
44:32
Speaker 1: But it's also like, why can't we just these are
44:38
Speaker 1: women who are doing amazing things in AI. We don't
44:42
Speaker 1: have to talk about how they look. We really don't.
44:45
Speaker 1: We really don't.
44:46
Speaker 6: We don't need to know how many children she has.
44:48
Speaker 6: We don't need to know she has a husband or
44:50
Speaker 6: a partner, Like, that's not we want to know. Are
44:52
Speaker 6: you doing better AI that protects people? Yeah, wonderful, let's
44:56
Speaker 6: support that.
44:57
Speaker 3: Yes, and it's such a yeah.
44:58
Speaker 5: It's just such a missed app community because like the
45:01
Speaker 5: majority of people who are making sure that AI is
45:06
Speaker 5: safe or more inclusive, or doesn't harm people, or is
45:09
Speaker 5: ethical or doing really interesting work, those people tend to
45:13
Speaker 5: also be women, people of color, people who are not
45:17
Speaker 5: necessarily treated as the norm in tech. And so when
45:21
Speaker 5: you have an opportunity to talk to these people, actually
45:24
Speaker 5: use it because what they are working on probably really matters,
45:28
Speaker 5: and like it matters to all of us. Even if
45:30
Speaker 5: you're not somebody who is a kateechie, you're not somebody
45:32
Speaker 5: who thinks of yourself as like somebody who thinks about
45:36
Speaker 5: AI a lot, this stuff is going to matter to everybody.
45:39
Speaker 5: And I guess that brings me to one of the
45:41
Speaker 5: things that I'm looking forward to in twenty twenty four
45:43
Speaker 5: that I if I'm the girl in the cartoon, I've
45:47
Speaker 5: got this in my bag slung over my shoulder, that
45:50
Speaker 5: I'm taking it with me to the next year, and
45:52
Speaker 5: that is all of us, each and every one of us,
45:55
Speaker 5: being more involved in conversations around tech. Like I do
45:59
Speaker 5: think I have seen a shift this year around how
46:02
Speaker 5: regular people like you and me and people listening, you know,
46:06
Speaker 5: are thinking about technology and talking about technology. I think
46:09
Speaker 5: that we are done with this idea that tech is
46:13
Speaker 5: only decided by a bunch of like super smart, genius
46:16
Speaker 5: white guys who don't have to be accountable to us
46:18
Speaker 5: at all because we're like not smart enough to understand
46:21
Speaker 5: the brilliance that they do.
46:23
Speaker 3: That is out.
46:23
Speaker 5: I think that in twenty twenty three, we are coming
46:25
Speaker 5: to the realization that these people have been using that
46:28
Speaker 5: dynamic as a way to essentially like get rich off
46:31
Speaker 5: of us. And I think that we're going to start
46:33
Speaker 5: asking some questions about that dynamic and pushing back, like
46:36
Speaker 5: should these companies and tech leaders be able to just
46:39
Speaker 5: get rich off of us without us asking any questions
46:42
Speaker 5: or having any say I think I think I'm starting
46:45
Speaker 5: to see people be like, no, actually, I am smart
46:48
Speaker 5: enough to understand that I'm being taken advantage of it exploited,
46:51
Speaker 5: and I have questions about that.
46:53
Speaker 3: So let's keep asking those questions.
46:55
Speaker 5: In twenty twenty four, let's bring that dynamic into the
46:58
Speaker 5: new year with us.
47:00
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and of course always your show is such
47:06
Speaker 2: a good part of that and part of that conversation,
47:09
Speaker 2: so very eagerly awaiting the next the next season. Do
47:14
Speaker 2: you call it seasons, Bridget, We call.
47:16
Speaker 5: It seasons, but they're really just like when I get
47:19
Speaker 5: tired of making the show and I have to take
47:21
Speaker 5: a break.
47:21
Speaker 3: So we are taking a break, but we'll be back
47:24
Speaker 3: real soon.
47:26
Speaker 6: Well, you're here with us, answering those questions and asking
47:29
Speaker 6: those questions and allowing us to ask you those questions.
47:33
Speaker 4: So we are very grateful for that and excited for that.
47:35
Speaker 4: For the new year.
47:37
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and we are hoping maybe we'll get to
47:41
Speaker 2: hang out RL and do some things four one day.
47:45
Speaker 3: One day. It's going to happen soon. Stay yes tune folks.
47:50
Speaker 2: Yes, well, Bridget, thank you so much as always for
47:54
Speaker 2: being here at the end of this year.
47:57
Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you.
48:00
Speaker 5: Out my podcast? There are no girls on the internet
48:02
Speaker 5: on iHeartRadio. You can find me on Instagram at Bridget
48:04
Speaker 5: Marie and DC or on Twitter at Bridget Marie.
48:08
Speaker 2: Yes, and definitely go do that listeners if you haven't already, Bridget,
48:12
Speaker 2: I hope you have a good relaxing holiday, weirdo Christmas.
48:17
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you all, Happy Mary whatever to all of y'all.
48:21
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, and listeners, if you would like to
48:26
Speaker 2: contact us, you can. Our email is Stephanie and Momstuff
48:29
Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
48:31
Speaker 2: at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
48:33
Speaker 2: stuff When Never told You. We have a tea public store,
48:35
Speaker 2: and we do have a book. Thanks as always to
48:37
Speaker 2: our super producer Christina, our executi producer Maya, and our
48:40
Speaker 2: contributor Joey.
48:42
Speaker 4: Thank you and happy holidays.
48:43
Speaker 2: Yes yes, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I
48:46
Speaker 2: Never told You the prediction of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
48:49
Speaker 2: from my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app,
48:50
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your favorite shows.
49:02
Speaker 6: Ya