Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _2477 - Rick Perry _ W. Bryan Hubbard

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Joe Rogan Experience _2477 - Rick Perry _ W. Bryan Hubbard · NO FILTER

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: by night, all day.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Gentlemen, great to see you. Yeah, put them on, slap
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: them on. What's happening? Good to see you gentlemen again.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Taking off.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Good to see you as well.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: One more time.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one more time.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: So, what is the latest? Give me the latest. Where
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: are we at?
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Why don't you take it, Brian? You just kind of...
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: You are the... You're the most current on where we are,
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: what's going on. Man, there has been a lot of
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: stuff happen in the 15 months since we were here.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, like stunning amount of stuff. So let's not
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: waste any time. Tell them where we're at.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, the last time we came to visit
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: with you, I believe, was on December the 27th of 2024.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: We were just on the front end of having organized
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: 30 committed Texans. whose own families had had experiences related
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the wounds of war, who,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: after hearing a plan that was developed for the state
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of Kentucky to bring Ibogaine to the American people as
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: an FDA-approved medication and breakthrough treatment for addiction and trauma,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: committed themselves to using their time, their talent, and their
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: network to achieve what had never been done before, and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that was to convince an individual state to undertake drug
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: development to create a therapeutic medical breakthrough for public health
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: crises within its borders that are representative of the national reality.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: After you released the interview with us on January 2, 2025,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: we pursued a five-and-a-half-month blistering campaign to convince 188 blank-slate
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Texas legislators to fund the single largest psychedelic research and
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: medical development project in history, that being the $ 50 million
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Texas Advocate Initiative. We had the assistance of some in-state allies,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: one of which was Texans for Greater Mental Health, led
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: by a dear friend and brother of mine, Logan Davidson,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: who was my right hand, going to meet with legislators
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: continuously while I set up shop at a hotel here
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: in Halston and lived here just about part-times. wearing the
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: needed to be introduced, educated, and motivated to get behind
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: this would do so. At the end of this five
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and a half months, we secured the votes of yes
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of 181 out of 188 legislators between the Texas House
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of Representatives and State Senate. There was one individual who
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: we had to persuade at the 11th hour to get
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: behind this project. On May the 14th, 2025, just 36
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: hours before the Texas budget was finalized, this bill that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: would create the first unified FDA drug development trial with
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine in U.S. history was not funded. I woke up
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: that morning, and I believe very much in keeping your
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: prayers in the closet, as Jesus taught, and not getting
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: out there parading about it. But on that morning... I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: got a call and it was, hey, we're getting to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the 11th hour. We don't have money to secure this.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: It may not make it. We've done everything that we can.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And I just, I literally got down on my hands
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and knees and said, God, please let this happen. And
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: if it cannot happen, help me understand why. Three hours later,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I got a telephone call asking if I could go
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: and meet with the Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Dan Patrick. I went at 4.30 in the afternoon on
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: May the 14th and spent an hour with these two
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: gentlemen going back and forth about what this project was,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: why it was so existentially necessary for Texas and the country.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And on Friday morning, May the 16th at 10 a.m.,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: we got a text message from Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that he would approve and fully fund the Texas Eyebegan Initiative.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: As we walk in here today, literally, just 10 minutes
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: before we walked into your studio, I can confirm that
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the great state of Texas is going to fully fund
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: the Texas Ibogaine Initiative, originally intended to be a public-private partnership,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: but now has decided on its own to commit a
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: full $ 100 million to launch the development of Ibogaine all
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the way through the FDA's drug development process for the
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: benefit of the American people. To do so on its own,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: without any drug development partner, and to do it for
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the good of humanity.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: That's phenomenal. So what did you have to say to
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Dan Patrick to convince him of this? And kudos to
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: him for doing this.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I had some very wonderful advocates who preceded my meetings.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Was he skeptical?
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, he was completely disengaged from the process, highly skeptical
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: as we learned through intermediaries. But we had two wonderful
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: brothers on mission who happened to be twins, Marcus and
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Morgan Luttrell.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I know Marcus very well.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Marcus and Morgan Luttrell reached out to the lieutenant governor.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: They spoke to him very movingly and personally about their
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: own experiences with Ibogaine, what it had done not just
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: to save their lives. but what it was doing to
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: save the lives of warfighters who had come to the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: end of being able to live. And as they explained
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: to him what it did for them and what it
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: has done for their brothers and sisters-at-arms who've returned to war,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to broken government systems that can do nothing to cure
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: what ails them at their core, he was persuaded to
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: have an open-minded conversation. And through that conversation on May
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the 14th, we essentially went through what Science suggests all
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the powers of the most sophisticated molecule on the planet
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: to resolve physiological substance dependence and thereby create psychology within
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the human being whereby they believe they have ownership of
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: themselves and their future and that that future will be
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: one defined by choice rather than compulsion. And the most
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: powerful aspect of the Ibogaine argument, not just for the
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Governor and House Speaker, but for most of these
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: legislators who voted yes, is that the experience endorsed by
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: many that Ibogaine confirms without question the reality of our
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: individual human divinity. And that is the greatest truth conveyed
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: by this fabulous plant.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Well put. And I don't think it's just Ibogaine that
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: confirms that. I think you could say the same about
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: many other psychedelic drugs that are unjustly maligned and treated
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: as if they're an escape from reality. Uh, But in
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: the interest of this being a standalone podcast where people
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: don't know what Ibogaine is and don't understand the efficacy
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: of it and how unbelievably effective it is, especially treating addiction,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: could you please just go over that?
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir. So Ibogaine is an alkaloid that is derived
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: from the Iboga shrub. The Iboga shrub originates in the
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: central Congo basin. Its native country is modern-day Gabon. It
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: is the mother country of the Iboga shrub, which has
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: been used for centuries in the spiritual and cultural traditions
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: of the Buwiti, a group of spiritualists who include the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Pygmies as well as the Bantu tribes that lived there
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: in Gabon. In the early 60s, it was discovered that
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine and Iboga had a significant interruption effect on opioid addiction.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: There was an individual who had... been addicted to heroin
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: for a number of years. They took Ibogaine and not
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: only did they not experience any withdrawal when they stopped
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: taking heroin, they stopped having any desire to use any
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: drug whatsoever. This touched off 60 years of open label
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: field studies that are mountains high and decades wide that
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: firmly established that Ibogaine has a unique and singular interruption
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: capacity on physiological substance dependency, whether that's opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: or tobacco. Recent evidence also suggests that it has a
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: significant interruption effect on compulsive behaviors, anything that kind of
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: impacts that brain's dopamine system and produces a rush.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Particularly gambling.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir. Now, in 2018, U.S. Special Forces special operators
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: started going to Mexico for treatment of symptoms of traumatic
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: brain injury expressed through treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, and suicidality. Many
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: of these veterans had gone through the VA system. They
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: had been given an unbelievable amount of synthetic pharmacology that,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: in their end effect, essentially anesthetizes the soul and slowly
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: euthanizes the body. And they were at the end. So
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: as they were going to Mexico and would get Ibogaine treatment,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: they came back with these just unbelievably, just powerful recovery
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: results that seemed too good to be true. So there
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: were some scientists at Stanford University that were funded by
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: a philanthropist who wanted to understand what was going on.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And so what we have come to learn through a
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Stanford research study on traumatic brain injury for vets is
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that Ibogaine has remarkable neuro capacities on the brain that
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: are unheard of in the annals of Western science. And
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: while information is still very small in amount and preliminary,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: there are individuals who have had Ibogaine treatment for not
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: just traumatic brain injury, but for multiple sclerosis. Lyme disease,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Parkinson's disease, post-surgical complications related to the removal of brain
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: tumor who endorse a restoration of functionality and an ability
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: to live that are otherworldly. And as we recognize that
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the opportunities to improve the human condition at scale are
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: multi-lifetime and appearing, we believe that we have found one
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: of those. And If we're going to do justice to
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the human species, it is incumbent upon us to take
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: what appears to be a promising therapeutic improvement and deliver
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: it with speed through the U.S. medical systems. And that's
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: what Governor Perry and I have founded Americans for Ibogaine
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: to do. Just that. Achieve the moonshot of our time.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: And that is to bring Ibogaine medicine to the American
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: people as quickly as possible.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Well said. And thank you again. uh, Governor Perry, because
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: if it wasn't for your involvement in this, I think
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of people would be far more skeptical. You know,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you being a former distinguished governor of the state who
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: was a Republican, generally speaking, most people think of Republicans
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: being anti psychedelics and that this whole thing is just
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: a bunch of people trying to escape reality and poison
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: their mind and, you know, tune out of society and
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: become losers. That's, that's the general consensus of people. that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: are just, for lack of a better term, ignorant of
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the effects of these substances. They don't understand it. But
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: if it wasn't for you, your open-mindedness, your willingness to
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: engage in this and try to understand it and to
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: speak to these veterans, I don't think people would be
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: taken into seriously. So thank you.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Well, and thank you. As I've watched you over the
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: last 15 months, seemed like ever six weeks or so,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: you'd have a guest on here and you'd be talking
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: about Ibogaine in particular and what is the progress that
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: we're making.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: What comes up so often.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and it should. It should. It should because
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: this truly, I mean, this is not what I came
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: into the world for. This is not what I came
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: to politics for. This is what, you know, I got
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: led to this through that relationship with Marcus and And
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: in turn, Morgan Luttrell and seeing those two boys literally,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: particularly Marcus, on the doorstep of committing suicide. When he
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: came to live with us at the governor's mansion in 2007,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: we had met the year before just by the grace
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: of God. And I told him, I said, if you're
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: ever through Austin, come by and see me. Knowing that
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: the chances of that would be pretty slim. He knocked
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: on that guard door in May of 07. And so
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: the governor said, if I was ever through here, come
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: by and see him.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: They called.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I let him in for dinner. And my wife, who's
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: a nurse, she recognized this young man who was really troubled,
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: addicted to opioids, masking it with alcohol, really sick. And
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: for the next two and a half years, he lived
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: with us at the governor's residence.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: And that started this long journey, literally. with him and
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: trying to find ways to heal him. We sent him
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: to a host of different places, Carrick Brain Center in Dallas.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: We sent him to what's called now Axios, Athletes Performance
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: in those days, but a great rehab facility down in
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: the panhandle of Florida. And they helped him conquer or
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: helped him manage the opioid addiction. I will suggest to
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: you until he was treated with Ibogaine, which did clean
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: that completely away from him some years later. But the
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: point is, he really struggled. And he has become like
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: our son. As a matter of fact, I talked to
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: him this morning. He said, be sure and tell Joe
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Howdy for me. He just thinks the world of you
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: as well. I talked to his brother the day before.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: They understand how powerful this compound is from the standpoint
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: of treating post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, addictions. I mean, this,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: and as I became convinced, one of the things that
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: I will say that I've been, I've been open to change,
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: just like criminal justice reform. In the early 2000s, I
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: was kind of like, lock their ass up, throw the
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: key under the jail. You know, you break the law
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: in the state of Texas, here's how we treat you.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: And I had a district judge in Fort Worth, John Cruz,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: a Democrat district judge who I knew and had been
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: friends with. He said, Governor, we got a program here
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: that allows these individuals who have broken the law, you know,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: they maybe, you know, got caught with an illegal substance
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: or what have you. And rather than sending them to jail,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: sending them to the penitentiary where they become professional criminals,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: we give them a second chance. We put them in
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: a rehab program. We put them in a treatment center.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: We put them in a boot camp. Give them these
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: options rather than sending them to prison where they're going
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: to become professional criminals and the recidivism rate is going
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: to continue on. You know, I'm kind of like, nope,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: I'm tough on crime. That's what us Republicans do. But
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: it really got me thinking. I mean, I am curious-minded
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: about concepts and ideas. So that brought me to having conversations. And,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: you know, long story short, that single conversation led to
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Texas leading the nation with criminal justice reform Texas Public
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Policy Foundation that now Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins was
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: operating in the mid to late 2000s. They came on board,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: saw this, supported it. We passed it through a very Republican,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: very conservative legislature. And Texas led the nation in in
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: criminal justice reform. Saved us billions of dollars. We stopped
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: building prisons. We stopped sending people to prison where they
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: were becoming professional criminals. So that template, if you will,
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: was what we took to Donald Trump in 2018. And
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: he was just like me initially. I'm tough on crime.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: But he was open. He was curious. Brooke Rollins, interestingly,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: had come up and was his domestic policy advisor at
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: that time, and she made the pitch, and he was open.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: And that conversation led to him being open to federal
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: criminal justice reform. And today, there are people who, I mean,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: you may have different ideas about President Trump and what
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: have you. I know that's the case. But on this
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: issue of criminal justice reform, This man was curious. He
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: was open-minded. And he's made a real difference in people's
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: lives following the Texas model. The reason I share that
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: with you as an example, that's where I was on
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: these compounds, these drugs, these psychedelics. I mean, I grew
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: up in the 60s. Timothy O'Leary, using LSD, marijuana, any
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: of that kind of stuff. I mean, it was anathema
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: to me. absolutely. And totally, I don't want to have
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: anything to do with it. This is crazy stuff. You
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: get in trouble, they'll throw you in jail. You'll jump
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: off of buildings. I mean, you write every story that
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: you can imagine, uh, that people, and then think about
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: from the sixties forward, how, you know, I went into
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: the air force. They, you know, we, we took drug
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: tests at least monthly. Um, So the idea of being
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: involved with a drug was just totally and absolutely not
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: on my radar screen. These are bad things. And we're
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: reinforced in the 80s with Mrs.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Reagan.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: Just say no to drugs. Here's your brain on drugs.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, we have been browbeat as a society for
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: 60 years. And when you add to it what Nixon did,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: President Nixon did in the late 60s, early 70s, with his.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: War on drugs. He hated hippies. He hated blacks. And
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: one of the ways you could go after them was
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: to go make these compounds schedule one, which he did.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Schedule one says there is no medical purpose for it,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: and it is highly addictive. Ibogaine fits neither of those.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Ibogaine is not an addictive compound by any sense of
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: the imagination.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: It's also absolutely not a recreational compound.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: No, at all.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: It's not something that someone can do at a party.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: We are proving without a doubt to the Texas legislature,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: to legislatures across this country, in Mississippi, in Tennessee, in Arizona,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: West Virginia, that it does have a medical purpose, that
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: there are some extraordinary things that can happen for their
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: citizens who have PTSD, who have sexual trauma, who have addictions.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, saving lives by the thousands, hundreds of thousands,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I will suggest to you, when this is approved across
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: the country and we see it as a relatively easily
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: studied and accessed by medical care compound. So That story
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: of seeing these two young men who have given everything, literally,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: up to willing to give their lives, and a lot
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: of their friends did, for our freedoms and our liberties
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: in this country. And for us to say to them, oh, sorry,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: you can't have access to this because, you know, they're
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: President Trump. Nixon said this was bad stuff back 60
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: years ago. And it was taken off the shelf as
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: a Schedule I drug, put over here, and for 60 years,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Americans have suffered through so many different eras. The late 90s,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: when the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma comes along. And
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: we literally... I think one of the most demonic things
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I've seen in my public life is this family who
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: used oxycodone and sold it to America as this be
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: all to end all. And then our federal government in
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: the mid 2000s, we didn't know how to deal with
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: these young men who would be put in these horrible
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: conditions and positions of being at war. time after time
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: after time, rotation after rotation, tempos that we'd never seen
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: before in the history of mankind, I'll suggest to you.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, Joe, we were at war for 20 years,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: 20 years during that period of time. There's special operators
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: that were deployed eight, nine, 10 times. And then they
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: come home and the governor gives them a sack of
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: opioids and that makes them feel crappy and they mask
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: it with alcohol. And we sit around and go, why
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: did Bobby kill himself? Well, because the government failed in
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: its great responsibility to take care of these young men
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: and women, in my opinion. So we owe it to them.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, a dear friend of mine
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: who just passed away within the last two days, he
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: had worked with me for, gosh, 30 years. And when
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: he first saw I was getting involved with this psychedelic drug,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: this Ibogaine compound. And we were having a conversation. He said,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you need to be really careful with that. You know,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: you've got a great reputation. You spent 40 years building
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: that reputation up. He said, you don't want to throw
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: it away on some cockamamie idea here. And I told him,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I said, well, I don't think I'm doing that. I've
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: studied this pretty intently. I've talked to a host of
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: different people. Um, and I said, so I'm, I'm comfortable
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: about the science here that I'm, that I'm seeing and
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: what have you. And I say, I think it's worth, um,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: going forward with. I said, Ray, their lives are not
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: worth more than my reputation. And that's, um, that's what
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: kind of continues to drive me. There are people that
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: still And I say, why are you doing this? Because
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I believe in it. I mean, I believe it to
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: the point, Joe, that I'm willing to risk my reputation.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. A lot
• 24:14
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• 25:26
  Speaker 2: slash J-R-E. That's BetterHelp.com slash J-R-E. I don't think you're
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: risking your reputation at all. Me neither.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I think that's foolish thinking.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Me neither. I think it's people that don't understand the times.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: This is a different world. We're living in a world
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of information now, and you can't go by these false
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: narratives that were adopted in the 1970s.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: And we're winning. I mean, I'm telling you what Americans
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: for Ibogaine has done. And, you know, we started out,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: I tell people, I said, you talk about a small
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: group of people. I think there were six of us.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: He's the CEO. I'm the chairman. We got Dr. Rulon,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: who's the secretary, and Claire Stapleton, the communications person, and
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: then Marcus and Melanie Luttrell. Marcus's wife, are the other
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: two members of our little board. And we were this
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: small little group kind of going along and doing what
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: we were doing. We were successful in the Texas legislature
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: and what have you. But it's exploded now. We have ambassadors,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Americans for Ibogaine ambassadors all over the United States now.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: People have seen what we've been able to do in Texas.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Mississippi followed suit. They've sent their governor a piece of legislation.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I want you to talk about that.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: We're going to do the roll call here.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and share with Joe and his audience just the
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: great progress that's being made. And quite frankly, I think
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: about Michael Dell when he was selling computers out of
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: the trunk of his car back in the late 80s
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and then his college dormitory. AFI kind of found itself
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: like that just a few months ago. And I'm not
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: trying to say that, you know, we're Dell Computer today,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: but we are growing at such a leaps and bounds and,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you know, and having the resources that we need to
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: be able to put our people in various places. I mean,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: he's the, travels all, you were in Cabo. I want
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: you to tell them about the group that you met with, Cabo.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: And I mean, just 200 of these extraordinary people down there.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: He travels all over the country. And, you know, and
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: we have to have the resources to to be able
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: to do that. So I hope the folks that are
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: listening go to Americans for Ibogaine. You know how to
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: tell them how to do that and help this organization
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: because this is what I'm going to do the rest
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: of my life. I'm 76 years old, and this is
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: what I hope the Lord gives me a lot of
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: years to make a difference because I know for a
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: fact that what we're doing today, what you're helping us with,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: is making a difference. And if we can get these
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: clinical trials to the conclusion, and thank you to the
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Lieutenant Governor and to the Speaker for what they committed
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: to today. I mean, to know that we're going to
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: be able to go forward now with these clinical trials,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: to show the world exactly what we know, but so
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: that the naysayers out there, the skeptic, can look at
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: that and go, you know what? You can get 85%
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: of the people who are hooked on opioids clean in
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: 72 hours.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing?
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's such a stunning thing to me.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Gull Dolan, we were at South by Southwest a week
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: and a half ago. She was sitting on the stage.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: She's an MD, PhD, was at Johns Hopkins. She's over
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: at Cal Berkeley now. And she gave a little primer,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: if you will, on... the different psychedelics, there's a critical
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: period that the mind opens up and you're able to
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: go in and if you will, the medicine treats the mind,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I think from my Aggie, non-pharmaceutical, non-scientific mind here, but
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: to go in and repair, reset the brain. The technical
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: word is neuroplasticity. But ketamine has a, critical period. I
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: think she said 48 to 72 hours. Psilocybin has a
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: critical period from 14 to 28 days. I think I'm
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: pretty close on these. But ibogaine, the critical period. the
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: time when that neuroplasticity is active and the brain can
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: be trained, healed, reset, is from 90 to 120 days.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: And then with the addiction, opioids, which I happen to
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: think is one of the most addictive substances that's out there.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is some horrible stuff. This very current
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: event with Tiger Woods and Tiger's accident. You know, he
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: had Oxycontin in his, you know, I'm not judging here,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: but I'm just kind of saying that may, when I
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: was ran for president in 2011, I'd had major back
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: surgery in July. I announced that I was running for
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: president in August. I had six weeks to try to
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: get over that major back surgery. And I had a
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: terrible condition called um, a neurological hyperfusion in my right leg.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: I've never had a pain like that. Felt like a
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: blow torch going down my right leg. And they gave
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: me Oxycontin. Uh, and I was taking that to cover
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: up the pain. I was taking Ambien to go to
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: sleep at night and I was taking some stuff called
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: ProVigil to get back up in the morning and be focused.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: I laugh about it now. Um, I'm surprised I did
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: as well as I did in that presidential effort in 2011. Hell,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: forgetting that one thing, that third thing in that debate. Hell,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I'm surprised I could remember any of them. Knowing what
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: I know now about OxyContin and the incredibly nasty, addictive
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: nature that it has. I mean, this stuff is just poison.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: And Ibogaine in 48 to 72 hours after one dose,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: one oral application of this compound, and that addiction is gone.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Not only is that addiction gone, Joe, but Stanford has
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: done functional MRIs on an addicted opioid brain. and then
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: treatment with Ibogaine, and they have shown that brain from
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: the addicted look that those experts, those post-docs that look
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: at this, to a normal brain, a normal brain scan
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: in 72 hours. If you were to go through the
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: normal process of healing yourself of opioid addiction through an
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: abstinence program, it would take you 18 months. And there
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: are very few, I'm going to say single digit people
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: that are successful in being able to do that. But
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: think about that. We got a compound here that has
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: the ability to heal people of opioid addiction in 48.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: To 72 hours.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: And, and.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: And we're not doing everything that we can in our
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: power to make that available? I mean, what the hell
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: is wrong with us? How bad you got to hate
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: people to not make that available?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: And with two doses, it's even more spectacular.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: 98%.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: That is amazing. 98%. That is truly amazing. There's nothing
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: even remotely like it with standard practice addiction therapy.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Nothing.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: You know, he mentioned the Americans for Ibogaine. We have ambassadors.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And Joe, what you really helped us do on January
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: 2nd of 25 was create a movement. Our organization is
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the custodian of that movement. We are a public policy
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: and advocacy organization. And Governor Perry mentions keeping me on
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the road. Wherever there are state leaders, citizens of conviction
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: and influence, whether that is California, whether it's Massachusetts or
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: whether it's Alabama, we exist to plant the seed of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: a scientific understanding of a public policy framework and of
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: a spiritual understanding of the significance of what we have
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: in our hands here, an opportunity to improve the human
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: condition at scale. And while we have talked tightly about
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine's impact on substance dependency and upon the wounds of war,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: our ambassadors reflect essentially The universal human condition and the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: way in which individuals who have tried every way to
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: overcome various forms of trauma and debility find as the
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: last step a redemptive restoration through Ibogaine treatment. It is
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: not for everybody. It should not be a first resort.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: It is an exceptionally powerful medication that comes with a
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: series of side effects that are highly unpleasant, as you
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: previously mentioned. One of the selling points, ironically, in the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Texas legislature was to say, if your idea of a
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: good time is being in a state of semi-paralysis for
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: 12 to 16 hours and throwing up continuously through the process,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: you're going to have a real good time. And if
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: there is the equivalent of being brought to the judgment
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: throne of God on this side of life, it is
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: an Ibogaine experience. That seemed to motivate a lot of support,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: especially for those who subscribe to puritanical notions of punishment
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: for wrongdoing. That's not what I'm here to advocate, but
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: certainly it is not fun. But what we know is that,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: for instance, we have two fashion model twins whose father
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: sexually abused them for a decade. And the results of
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that horrific experience that they shared produced all kinds of
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: psychological maladies that included an eating disorder for one, persistent
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: neuroses in the other. They tried every form of talk therapy.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: They tried every psychotherapy modality known to try to overcome that.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: And it was Ibogaine that restored their lives and their
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: capacity to enjoy the life that God has given them.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: We have first responders who are emerging in numbers. one
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: who is a firefighter from Oklahoma who was demoted because
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: of decades of alcoholism. His life has been restored by Ibogaine,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and he's back working full time. We have a gentleman
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: who was a Charlottesville police officer who was hit in
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the face with a brick during the riots that occurred
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: in Charlottesville. His life was restored by a single Ibogaine treatment,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and he has attained a level of functionality that he
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: didn't think was possible, nor his doctors. We have a...
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: a gentleman who was a pilot who unfortunately did a
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: bomb and run on a village and killed a number
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: of innocent people. He learned about this, and this sent
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: him into a spiral, as many warfighters who are exposed
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to moral injury do. Ibogaine has restored this gentleman's life.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: We have a gentleman by the name of Robert Gallery,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: a former NFL player who exhibited all the signs of
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: CTE in his post-retirement years. He was ready to kill
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: himself so that he wouldn't harm his own family. It
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: was Ibogaine that restored his life. There have been other
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: NFL players who are as yet unnamed, some incidentally that
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: have been in the paper who have gone for Ibogaine
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: treatment to address similar symptoms. Players in the NHL, players
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: in other contact sports that include soccer and rugby and
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: the United Kingdom where there is an emerging cohort of
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: professional athletes who have reached out to us to say
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: we want the United Kingdom for Ibogaine.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I would love to get you guys connected with the UFC.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: We would love to be connected to the UFC.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Because that is obviously an issue with professional fighters.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: So Hughes, Matt Hughes, and Matt had, I met Matt
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: through Marcus, gosh, in like 2008 or so. And we
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: went out for a fight. And then subsequently, Matt had,
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: I think, a car accident. of which he really had a.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: He was hit by a train.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just an incredible traumatic brain injury. And I just
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: want to have that conversation with him. And I'm sure
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: you have great relationships with those. We know for a
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: fact that cumulative impacts on the brain are what lead
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: to CTE. I mean, that's... I don't think that's even
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: a question of, here's how it happens. These multiple concussions
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: have cumulative effect on the brain. And at some point
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: in time, that CTE has a long-time effect. And this
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: medicine has the ability to remove that trauma, to reset
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: that brain, to heal that brain. I don't know how
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: it works, Joe, but that's the reason these clinical trials
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: are going to be so important as we're going forward.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: And I can't tell you, I'm ecstatic that the lieutenant
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: governor and the speaker today announced their full Texas support
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: behind these clinical trials. we're fixing to become the epicenter
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: for a movement that literally can change the world. And
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: I know that sounds kind of a little bit over
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: the top. But if we have within our grasp here
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: a compound that can heal our loved ones who have
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: an addiction, be it a substance addiction or be it
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: a non-substance addiction, if we have the ability to heal
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: people who have been traumatically impacted by concussions, if we
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: have the ability to address PTSD in all the different
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: forms that it comes, I mean, the hope that that
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: can give to the society that we live in, and
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking about just the United States. You think
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: about what's going on in Israel, in Ukraine, in the
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Middle East today, and the trauma that people are facing.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, this truly can be an extraordinary gift to
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: the world. And, you know, listen, I think it's really interesting.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: You ask a leading question about how did I come
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: to this position of being able to be supportive as
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: I am. And when I think about my growing up,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: and I grew up in a very conservative Christian family.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: And I think one of the challenges we still have
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: in our society is that the conservative Christian faith is like,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: stay away from that stuff. I mean, that's bad. Do not,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: under any circumstances, don't be going there. It's demonic. And
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: There's a book that's about to be published. I think
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: the first week in April, so we're approaching it. There's
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: an author by the name of Wendy Reese, R-E-E-S. Wendy
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: with an I, W-E-N-D-I-R-E-E-S. And she, not unlike the two twins,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: was sexually assaulted by her own father.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: He was a pastor of a church.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Joe, I'm telling you, brother. I can't dream up in
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: my worst nightmare a more evil thing than a father
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: that would sexually assault their daughter. And she dealt with
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: it with Ibogaine and has come to the conclusion that
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: her great gift to give to the world out there
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: is to write this book called A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics. Now,
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: if you think that won't catch some people's attention when
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: they're going through the bookstore and they go, a Christian's
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Guide to Psychedelic? Holy mackerel. But this is a book
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: about her experience, but it's also a book that I
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: would suggest that every believing Christian go pick it up
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: and read it because it talks about chapter and verse
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: and gives you scripture in about where God talks about
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: these compounds, about these things that he's given the world.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: He means them for good, all of them for good.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Are you aware of the scholars in Israel that are
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: proposing that Moses, seeing the burning bush, was the acacia tree? Yeah,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: there's an acacia tree. The acacia tree, which is very
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: common in the Middle East, is rich in dimethyltryptamine. And
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: they believe that what they're trying to relay in this
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: story was that Moses encountered God through the burning of
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: this bush. So the burning of this bush releasing the
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: psychedelic compound dimethyltryptamine allowed Moses to bring back the Ten Commandments.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: You know, thank you for mentioning that. I have been
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: following scholarship around the use and the recognition that there's
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of psychedelic allegory in Holy Scripture. That, I think,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: is the favorite, where that burning bush reveals the great
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I am. And when Moses says, who are you? I
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: am who I am. And the beauty about Ibogaine and
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: the other plant medicines are their capacity to reveal the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I am that was in them. is within each of
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: us and that I am as our eternal creator who
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: absolutely has engineered and placed these plants on this earth
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: so that we can be affirmed in what our true
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: identity and ultimate destiny is and praise God for it.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And then there's also the sacred mushroom in the cross,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the John Marco Allegro book, where he was one of
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: the ordained ministers that was, his task was to decode
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the Dead Sea Scrolls. And he wrote this book that
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: details what he believes is the use of psychedelic drugs
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: in ancient Christianity.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Hard for me to argue with.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just think our modern perception of it,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: which is very tainted by what happened during the Nixon
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: administration where they were trying to squash the hippie movement,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: the anti-war movement, and the civil rights movement. And that's
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: why they demonized these drugs, these compounds. And that's why
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: they put them in this category of having no medicinal use,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: which is clearly not accurate. It doesn't mean that they
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: should just be given to everyone and everyone should do
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: them with no restrictions and no regulations. It just means
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: we should understand that they have a long history of
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: human use and have spectacular results on all sorts of
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: things that our society is suffering from greatly. And to
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: just pretend that that's not the case based on what
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: happened in the 1970s, is just insane. It doesn't make
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: any sense.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I would suggest that one of the greatest lessons learned
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: by Americans who are age 50 and younger, those of
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: us who I call the bicentennial children, is that the
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: most morally depraved criminal in America today is power. And
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: the power of the human hand when it is wielded
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: in its most abusive context will always seek to deny
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: any access to individual human divinity and the liberty and
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: autonomy that is conferred upon each of us as children
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: of God. And insofar as we find ourselves at the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: precipice of what I believe is the emergence of a
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: broad-based spiritual movement where all of us modernists within the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: empiricism of modern American society, are able to see through
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the fog of all of our wealth and gadgetry and
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: recognize we are in the midst of profound spiritual famine
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: in the United States. You, I know, and forgive me
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: for referencing age, remember back in the mid-80s where we
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: saw all these horrific images of starvation and dissension, distention,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and fly-covered death from mass famine in Ethiopia and Sudan,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: where millions of people starved to death because the malevolence
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: of power forbade the delivery of any relief sent by
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: the outside world. When we look at what's right in
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: front of us in the United States today, there is
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: no denying that we are in the midst of a
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: terrible spiritual famine. And the malevolence of American power is
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: feasting on our starvation. This is an emancipation movement for
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: the mind, body, and soul of every human being in
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: this country and across the globe who is lethally estranged
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: from their own spirituality. The Abigain Mission is a mission
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: to foment dramatic medical breakthroughs across a host of conditions
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: that have no effective therapeutic answers. But above and beyond that,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: it is about the affirmation of the spiritual essence of
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: life that can unify us as a species in a
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: way that is necessary if we're going to navigate these
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: changes over the next 20 years. Governor Perry mentioned this
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: wonderful invitation that I received to go to what was
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: called the Earth One Summit. Now, Joe, I come out
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: a hillbilly hauler of Virginia.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: And it's a— I do. I introduce him from time
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: to time. I said, look, this guy, he looks like
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: and he sounds like a hillbilly from eastern Kentucky in
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: the Appalachian Mountains. And I said, he is. But I said,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: he's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: in my life. and one of the most extraordinary orators
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: I've ever had in my life so anyway I wanted
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: to I love you brother but you are a hillbilly.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I'm much more comfortable with that than all that other
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: stuff you said but you know, when you come out
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: of scratch nothing sometimes, there are certain sophistications that you lack.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And I'm no exception to that. So there was this
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Earth One Summit. It was 200 thought leaders from across
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: the world who came to basically discuss the future. And
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I was very honored to have received an invitation to
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: come and attend the gathering to speak about what Governor
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Perry and I are working on through Americans for Ibogaine.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: And they presented me with the honor of being the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: closing keynote speaker for the gathering. And as I listened
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: over the course of four days, I heard individuals who
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: included Kimball and Christiana Musk. And I've read interviews by
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk speaking about the advent of AI and the
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: capacity to of AI to solve the central dilemma that
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: we as humans have had since we emerged from the caves,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: and that's the dilemma of scarcity. So as I was
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: there listening to folks speak about being on the edge
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: of a time when we can automate the means of
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: production and essentially create an unlimited amount of abundance for
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: every person on this planet, I couldn't help but think
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: about where we are right now as compared to where
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: these individuals see us being in 20 years. You cannot
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: create and deploy this kind of God-like technology, which has
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the capacity to produce unlimited abundance, potentially usher in the
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: age of Aquarius, and drop it in to these Frankenstein
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: monstrosity government systems that we currently have that are enthroned
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: upon the helplessness of powerless people, that perpetuate problems that
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: they are supposed to solve, and that monetize sustained human misery.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: So long as government makes its buck over keeping its
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: foot on the necks of the American people, we are
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: looking at a future that much more resembles Mad Max
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: then we are Star Trek. And if we are going
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: to create the degree of social cohesion that is necessary
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: to hold these systems accountable and to create a system
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: that can truly usher in that age of unlimited abundance
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: to improve the human condition for all, it begins with
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: a spiritual reawakening that I began first and foremost and
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: the rest of the psychedelics concede and foment within American society.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: To that end, And I'll be quiet for the next
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: No, you're good, man. We love listening to you.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: There is a six-part docuseries that will come out next
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: year called Psychedelics And. And it is a series of
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: interviews with a cross-section of leaders across the United States
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: where they speak about their own quest for meaning. and
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: how psychedelics has helped them understand that we are more
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: than just these material beings that get up and go
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: to work every day and are a productive economic unit,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: go home and repeat, that there is a much higher
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: sense of purpose that we are here to serve, and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: that the plants themselves have the capacity to enlighten us
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: at scale in a way that's absolutely necessary if we're
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: going to make that age of abundance happen as those
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: visionaries articulate and dream for it.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: What I think is fascinating about the age that we're
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: living in is that change comes very slowly. But it
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: comes much faster when you have the kind of access
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: to information that people have today. And I don't think
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: this conversation was possible 20 years ago.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: No. No way.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of amazing. No way. It's kind of amazing.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that there was a format for
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: this conversation 20 years ago. This format has occurred because
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: of the age of information, because of the internet. And
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: because there's no gatekeepers anymore. And because people have the
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: choice to decide what they want to consume, what they
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: want to listen to. And to be able to be
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: a part of that, to me, is an incredible privilege.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: And to be able to have you guys on and
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: to have this conversation and to recognize that the reason
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: why this is possible is because, for lack of a
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: better term, the world's waking up.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: It's just taking more time than we would like. But
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: the world is waking up. And change happens. It just happens.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: People have to change their opinions. And that's very difficult
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: because a lot of people identify with their opinions. Their
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: opinions become a part of their ideology. And it's just
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: very difficult to get people to change their ideology. They
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: identify with this. It is them. And I've always tried
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: to tell people the way I try to approach things.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: You are not your ideas. You are not your opinions.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: These are just thoughts. And if you identify with them,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: you are trapped in them and you will be held
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: hostage by them. You will try to defend them even
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: if they don't make sense. You will try to ignore
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: evidence that points you in a direction that's contrary to
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: what your current belief system is. Don't be your opinions.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Don't be your ideas. Just sit in them. be consistent,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: be honest, have ethics and morals that you adhere to.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: But the ideas are just ideas. And if you're wrong,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: you should be proud to say wrong. It's a sign
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: of growth. It's a sign of intelligence. And it's a
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: sign of you being an honest human being who cares
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: about the truth, not about being right. Because there's too
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: many people in this world that they don't really have conversations.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: They have ideological sparring matches where they're just involved in
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: these little intellectual tugs of war where they're just trying
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: to be right. And this is not the time for that.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: It's just... So.
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: My going from hard no on criminal justice reform to
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: literally a leader on criminal justice reform in the mid-2000s
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: My going from hard no on any psychedelic drugs that
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: could be used in any way to now being what
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: I humorously refer to as the Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: is to your point. Be open. Be willing to say
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: you were wrong. I know my wife would like to
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: hear me do that more often. But, hey, if you
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: don't mind, I want to take a minute and talk
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: about how far this movement has come. And Brian talked
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: about Americans for Ibogaine and our ambassadors all across the
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: country and the growth that we've seen in this. And
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: I want to give you one example to your point
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: that five years ago, If you had had an institution
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: that had its own reputation dealing with brain health and
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: brain science and those kind of things, they would have
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: just kind of moved you off to the side and said,
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: you know, no thanks. But the Center for Brain Health
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: in Dallas, this is an extraordinary institution that's connected to
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: the University of Texas, Dallas. Matter of fact, it's just
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: next door to UT Southwestern, which is one of the
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: great medical facilities in the world, UT Southwestern. And Dr.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: Sandy Chapman heads up the Center for Brain Health. And
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: they've done some great work. We went up and presented
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: to her, I don't know, probably 60 to 90 days ago.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: And there was another organization called.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Forward.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: Forward Intent. Forward Intent. Just a beautiful young man and
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: his wife, Alex Duran, and his wife, who have funded
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: an effort. And what they're doing with their resources, they're sending,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: I think, 250 individuals down to Mexico to both, I think,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: a facility called Transcend and to Ambio. And Ambio is
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: that facility that I've been to, Brian's been to, Marcus
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: and Morgan Luttrell have been to. I think probably 2,000
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: more fighters have been down to Ambio now. Vets, underwrites them.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: And just as an aside, this has blown up so big.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: And I'm talking about the Ibogaine effort, the education of Ibogaine. People,
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: you know, there's some hope out there. And people are
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: rushing to find where they can go to, you know,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: to treat the addiction that their loved one has or
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: deal with their PTSD and what have you. And Ambeo
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: is just covered up. And I'm sure, you know, the
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: other facilities are as well down there. The organization Vets,
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: which is really where I came into this, Amber and
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: Marcus Capone, they don't have any openings anymore. I mean,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: they are completely covered up. But I mean, that's a
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: good challenge. I'm glad we had that challenge. But my
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: point is, you've got an institution in Dallas, Texas, that
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: just like the state is getting the signal, it's okay
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: to be out there talking about this. It's okay to
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: to be a leader. It's okay to get out there
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: and lead the charge. And I want to read to
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: you what Dr. Chapman, because I asked her, I said,
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: do you mind if I talk about what you all
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: are doing? And she said, absolutely. And she said, Governor,
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: great to talk with you yesterday. Here are some comments
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: to guide you in how to discuss our existing collaboration.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to announce that we have begun a partnership
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: with the Center for Brain Health, University of Texas at Dallas.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Americans for Ibogaine and Forward Intent to create the largest
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: research study of Ibogaine to date focused on understanding its
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: impact on the brain among the veteran community.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: Francesca Philby, an expert in cognitive and translational neuroscience, especially
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: the use of neuroimaging to study brain behavior relationships, will
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: lead the research. Our mission together is to move beyond
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: the question of, does Ibogaine help? And instead, answer the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: more practical questions veterans and clinicians need. Number one, who
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: benefits and why? How long do the benefits last? Which
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: aspects of daily life functioning, i.e., cognition, sleep, substance use,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: and overall well-being, improve or worsen following treatment? And how
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: are these changes associated with brain alterations. The three-year study
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: will follow those treated with Ibogaine over the course of
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: 18 months, which will allow us to create the first
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: understanding of the sustained impacts of Ibogaine on the brain
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: across various treatment regimes. We'll be diving more into this
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: topic on November the 19th at the Center for Brain
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: Health's Brain Health Presents speaker series to share more. By
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: bringing world-class scientific rigor to this space, we aren't just
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: studying a substance. We're creating a foundation of knowledge that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: will expand safe, informed access for those who need it most.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: That is what Americans for Ibogaine is really all about.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: Making that type of penetration, having that type of success,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: seeing what Brian and the other folks have created here
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: in the state of Texas, I'm going to tell you something, brother.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: There is nothing that I've been involved with in my
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: life that gives me more pleasure than to see what
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: we're doing and knowing that there's a father out there
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: mother out there whose child's going to be saved.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: You mentioned dogma. People are, in particular in American society,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: there is a quest for identity. There is a quest
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: for belonging. So much of what we see on social
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: media and in broadcast media that is rage and anger
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: and disaffection is tremendous loneliness and a tremendous lack of
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: of belonging to something and a tremendous amount of trauma
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: related to never having had anything that resembles unconditional affection
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: within the context of a safe and stable familial relationship.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: That's at scale within the United States. And the degree
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: to which dogma can thwart evolution is 100% right on.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: And I just use my own self as an example.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I was a child of Reagan's America. I can remember
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I was about five years old when he and President
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Carter had their first presidential debate in 1980. President Reagan
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: was like the mother goose to the gosling. He just
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: imprinted on me. And whereas other young boys had pictures
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: of Joe Montana and Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson all
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: over their rooms, mine was wallpapered with Ronald Reagan. I
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: was the president of the Teenage Republicans in high school.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: I wrote him fan letters all the time. He actually
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: replied to one, and I put it in a frame
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: in my room. It was written on my birthday. I
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: was president of the College Republicans at George Mason University,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: and I mean, I aim to be the king of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: conservative Republican conformity. That was my whole mission in life.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: And I used to joke that when people said, well,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: how did you get to this? And what do you
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: think about the fact that you're talking about it and
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: you're so zealous in your advocacy? I would kind of
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: make a half statement and say, well, if 25-year-old me
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: could come and see 50-year-old me, he would look and say,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: what in the world happened to you? And I would
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: kind of yuck and yuck and laugh about it. Well,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: here's the answer. If 25-year-old me could come back and
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: look at 50-year-old me and say, what happened to you?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: 50-year-old me would look right back and say, you happened
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to me. You happened to me. your youthful sense of certainty,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: your belief that you had it all figured out, your
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: belief that you had no further greater evolution to achieve, sir.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: You and your insolence of youth, you happened to me.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I have so enjoyed learning
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: about Governor Perry as he and I have built relationship,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: the first time I really started following him was when
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: he ran for president in 2012, and I believe that
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Had he not had that back surgery, we would not
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: have had a second Obama term. He would have won
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: that race, and I think he would have won it handily.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: It's been remarkable to listen to this gentleman who has
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: been so firmly identified with the conservative wing of the
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Republican Party be so willing to be curious and to
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: have that human value of curiosity and a willingness to
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: hear and a willingness to know and a willingness to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: entertain that Perhaps everything that he had been taught about
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: this particular subject was not correct. Curiosity is a prime
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: human value. And if you allow dogma to shut off
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: your curiosity, you have hobbled yourself. And I think it
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: was Muhammad Ali who said, if a 50-year-old man thinks
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the exact same way as a 20-year-old man, as he
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: did when he was 20, he's wasted 30 years of
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: his life. And that is dead on right.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: Dead on, Ryan. Yeah, I could attest to that. Curiosity
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: is my number one attribute. It's the thing that's led
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: me in life and everything I've ever done is just
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: being open-minded and curious. I'm very fortunate is that I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: didn't think I had things figured out when I was
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: 20 at all. I was sure that I was a moron.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I was good at one thing, kicking people. That's it.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: And then from then, I realized that there's a lot
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: to learn and that as much as I learned about
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: martial arts, I could apply that sort of open-minded discipline.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: Because you have to be open-minded to be good at
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: martial arts because you have to be able to listen.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: You can't think you already know. You cannot. You won't
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: grow and you won't get better. You have to be
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: listening to coaches. You have to be listening to instructors.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: You have to be listening to your teammates. You have
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: to listen to everybody. If you don't listen, if you have, ah,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: don't tell me. those people don't go anywhere. And I
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: learned that very early on. It's very fortunate that I
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: found that path because I've applied that to virtually everything
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: that I've ever done in life. Instead of having this
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: belief that I have things figured out. I mean, I've
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: certainly like been more sure than I should have been
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: at many times in my life, but always willing to
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: stop and go, maybe I'm wrong. And if it wasn't
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: for this podcast, it would have never gotten to where
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: it is because I've fortunately been able to talk to
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: brilliant people. And I grew up in– I lived in
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: California for 26 years. Before that, I lived in Boston
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: and New York. I thought of people– the southern accent
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: in particular, right? And this is a standard thing that
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of people on the coast have. You hear
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: people talk with a southern accent. You think they're dumb.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: And it's a terrible stereotype that actually came out because
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: of hookworm parasites. I'm sure you're aware of that story.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: You're not?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: Educate me.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: The stereotype of the lazy, dull-minded southerner came out of
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: the fact that a large percentage of people in the
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: South had contracted hookworms. From walking around barefoot and hookworm parasites...
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: will rob you of your intellectual capacity. They greatly diminish
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: your ability to think and exhaust you. You get slower and,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: you know, in quotes, lazier. But you're really just infected
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: with a parasite. And it's an enormous percentage of the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: population in the 1900s were infected with hookworm. And in
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: the south in particular. Hot climates. And this is where
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: this stereotype came from. When someone like you speaks with
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: such insane recall, like your recall is bananas. Like your
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: recall of dates and names and times. I have a
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: pretty good recall. It's nothing like yours. It's extraordinary. And
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: I love when I meet someone who's brilliant who still
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: has a southern accent. Because it's like.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: Like I said. Yeah.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Forget all your stereotypes. Let them all go, baby, because
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: they're not real. It's not real. None of that is real.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Individuals vary wildly. And, you know, I've met brilliant people
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: from coastal cities and I've met fucking morons that talk like,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: you know, a person that you would assume would be
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: a highly educated, intelligent person. But they're closed minded and
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: foolish in their ways. And having had this ability to
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: have all these different conversations with different people, it's just
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: like every time I have another conversation just expands my
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: understanding just a little more and a little more and
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: a little more and a little more. And I love it.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: And it's all out of curiosity. And I'm very happy
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: that I've been able to make that curiosity infectious.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: My favorite cities, and I know we're getting off the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: beaten path here a little bit.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: I love to get off the beaten path. It's my
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: favorite thing to do.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: My favorite cities in America are those that you can
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: go to and not feel like you're in the country.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Miami is fabulous.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: It's a wild place. You should have a passport to
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: go to Miami.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: It is fabulous. And I remember the first time I
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: went to New York City one time when I was
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: about five years old, the only thing I could remember
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: was the Empire State Building and some dude with purple
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: hair sticking his tongue out at me. The next time
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: was in 2019. And I'd always had kind of that
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: stereotypical southerner's attitude, a bunch of, you know, haughty, rude,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: mean-acting Yankee people living in an obnoxious locale that would
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: just be hell on earth to have to endure. So
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to go and spend a day
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: there and rolled into Grand Central Station on the railway from,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I think it was New Haven, Connecticut. And just to
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: watch the dimensions of the architecture as we rolled into
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: the city. Crazy. The expansion of scale of this place.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: How old were you? Well, let's see. I was about
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: to turn 44. I think I could hear the Beverly
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: Hillbillies music playing in my head when I was going
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: down through there. So we get off at Grand Central Station,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: and I mean, I walked all through that. I walked
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: from Grand Central Station all the way down to the
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: tip of where the World Trade Center was. It was,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: New York City is a monumental human accomplishment. When you
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: can have the entire world within 300 square miles, and
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: it is a a living affirmation of everything the United
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: States is supposed to be as the last best hope
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: of humankind on earth, just to be in that place.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: Anytime I've gone back since, I mean, the minute that
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: I go to get the Uber at LaGuardia airport and
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: I see that skyline, I mean, my heart just starts racing, racing, racing.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: I would have never thought that I would just fall
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: in love with New York city, but it is fabulous.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: San Francisco is the same way. Just, There are so
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: many wonderful places in the United States where you wouldn't
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: think that somebody necessarily who sounded like me would endorse.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: But one of the best things that I have done
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: is stop watching television news. The last time I watched
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: television news was after the first Obama press conference in
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: January of 2009, and I.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Cut it off.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Wow. Aside from presidential debates and election returns, I've never
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: turned it back on. The number, I shouldn't tell this,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: the number of times I've left my front door wide open,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: the garage door open in my neighborhood, and nothing has
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: happened is remarkable. This country, in terms of her people,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: is as much like it was back in 1950 as
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: it has ever been. The complexion is a little different.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: We've got a lot more diversity now than we've ever had.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: But once you take that blinder of mass media mayhem
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: and all this fabricated division that is purposely put out
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: there to keep us divided.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: To keep us tuning in.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Tuning in and segregated.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Once you take yourself out of it and you just
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: start having a conversation, next time someone gets into an
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Uber with someone who doesn't have English as a sacred language,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: strike up a conversation. Ask them, how did you come
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: to the United States? What brought you here? And your
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: heart is going to fill with just the unbelievable amount
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: of pride and love to hear those accents from the
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Middle East and from Africa speak about this country in
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: ways that take us right back to 1776. It's a
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: fabulous place. And I'm able to say so much of
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: this because of what the plants have helped clarify. by
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: way of that universal human divinity that we all share,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: that this country is the cradle to protect and to honor,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: which is what makes this mission so incredibly important. And
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: I do want to, oh, I'm sorry.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: No, go ahead, please.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: There's two people that I left off of our ambassador
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: program that I think are really showstoppers I want to mention.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: One is a gentleman by the name of Rear Admiral
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: Jim Hancock. This gentleman received Ibogaine treatment for his wounds
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: of war He was the Navy Medical Corps Chief and
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: was the medical officer for the United States Marine Corps.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: One of our other ambassadors is a gentleman by the
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: name of General Glenn Curtis. He served in both Gulf Wars.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: He served in Afghanistan. His most recent stint of service
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: was as the commanding general for the Louisiana National Guard.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: And he is one of our prime spokespeople for legislation
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: that's pending in Louisiana right now to join Texas as
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: a partner in this Ibogaine trial.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: So, That's fantastic.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: Please say what you were going to because I'm curious.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: I don't even remember.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: Hey, well, I remember what I wanted to talk about.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: And I want to get us back on the track
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: that we were talking about. You know, Brian's done a
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: great job to discuss the spiritual aspect of the medicine
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: and what I mean. That's incredibly important. Don't get me
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: wrong on that at all.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: And but.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: What brought me personally to the medicine, obviously my relationship
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: with Marcus and Morgan and what have you, and then
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: as I studied it, I'm like, if you're really going
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: to be a legitimate spokesperson for this, if you're going
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: to put your reputation out there, you need to be treated.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: You need to go through the treatment. And I'm going
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: to get to you at the end of this conversation,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: but I want to set this up if I may.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: And in 2023, if my memory serves me correct, this
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: is the same time that Nolan Williams was heading up
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: the 30 veteran study that Stanford was going to oversee,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: kind of the early days, if you will, of some
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: clinical trial type effort to have the data, to have
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: the background, some early day efforts to start educating the
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: public about that is how I do this. They had
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: 30 vets. I think they were between the ages of
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: like 22 and 42. They all had moderate to severe PTSD.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: They were some of them addicted to alcohol. You know,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: they were pretty classic veteran population that had some real challenges.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: They were sent to Stanford and they did baseline functional MRIs.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: And then they were sent down to Ambio, just south
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: of Tijuana, where they were given the treatment. And then
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: that last, I think about a four day treatment protocol
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: You go down, work your way in. Tuesday, you get
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: in preparation. Tuesday evening, you get the compound. Wednesday is
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: a recovery day. Thursday, there's a 5-MeO-DMT treatment. And then
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: you go home. They went back to Stanford after five days,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: after the treatment, and had follow-up MRIs. I think they
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: had an MRI at 30 days and then a functional
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: MRI at six months. So there was a good piece
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: of data there to look at. Just stunningly good results.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: And the results, I think there was 87% of them
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: who now better than two years later, but that have
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: zero PTSD. The addictions were at that level of reduction
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: that we talked about in the high 80 percentiles. I mean,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: we've seen all of this data before. This is nothing new.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: But the reason I share that with you is that
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: I basically went down and followed the same protocol. I
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: wasn't part of the clinical trial, and I only wanted
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: to be treated with Ibogaine. I did not want to
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: take the 5-MeO-DMT. So what I was looking at, and
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: I was interested in this from the brain regenerative side
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: of it. I had about as bucolic a life as
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: you've ever had. I never had anybody mistreat me of
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: anything that you could even get close to calling traumatic.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: Effect.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: I had no trauma in my life. I grew up
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: on a dry land cotton farm, you know, 60 miles
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: from Abilene, Texas, 16 miles from closest place that had
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: a post office in a part of Texas that there's
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: just a lovely, wonderful, loving place. My mom and dad
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: loved me and I knew it. And, you know, my
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: scout master and my principal and my superintendent in my
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: Sunday school class, who, by the way, were all the
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: same person. And he drove the bus and was a
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: football coach. But I had a as non-traumatic growing up
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: period as you can imagine. So I was concussed, severely concussed,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: three times. Twice in athletic events, and I'm talking about
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: knocked out completely for over one minute. And those are
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: severe concussions. two times athletic events, one time unloading horses,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: knocked completely out. So what I know now is that
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: as I got to pilot training and I started noticing
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: that I was having trouble sleeping and that this thing
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: that I understood later in life was anxiety had crept
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: into my life. So I had, I'm going to put
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: it in the mile category, anxiety and, uh, and insomnia.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: I went into a very odd line of work in
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: politics to have those two kind of things. And I
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: matched them rather well. Most people didn't know I had that.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: My wife did. But other than that, even my senior
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: staff in my offices through the year, agriculture commissioner, lieutenant governor, governor,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: they did not know that I had this challenge of
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: maybe sleeping three and a half, four hours a night,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: being anxious at times to the point of being never dysfunctional.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: From my perspective, probably some people out there in the
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: political world said, hell Perry, you were dysfunctional the whole
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: damn time. What are you talking about? Anyway, beside the point.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: I had the treatment. I had the I had the
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: brain scan going in. I had the brain scan a
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: week later, and I had the brain scan at six months.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: The first brain scan, they said, look, your brain looks
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: pretty good for a 73-year-old guy. He said, you know,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: you're actually in pretty good shape. You don't have a
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: lot of atrophy. You got some mild atrophy, but your
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: brain looks pretty good. The week after scan showed a
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: 27% increase in the prefrontal cortex of my brain. That's
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: where your focus, your concentration, your emotions reside. Had a
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: 27% increase in that prefrontal cortex activity. My six-month scan,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: I have a dear friend who's a neurosurgeon from Tyler, Dr.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: Charlie Gordon, who is a 40-plus year neurosurgeon, spine expert,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: looked at lots of brain scans. A respectful skeptic of this.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: When I told him I was going to be treated
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: with this compound called Ibogaine, this psychoactive compound, He was
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: recoiled a little bit. He was like, you need to
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: be really careful with that. He has now gone from
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: being respectful, skeptic, to looking at the data from the
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: clinical trial that was done at Stanford, talking to a
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: fairly good number of the veterans that went through that trial,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: talking to Dr. Williams, talking to other specialists at the
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: at Stanford. And he has gone from respectful skeptic to
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: a full-on believer in this medicine. I mean, an absolute
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: supporter that this medicine does what it says it does.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: It heals people of addictions. It heals from PTSD. This
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: medicine does what it does. And we're driving back from
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: the airport that day after the six-month scan He had
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: looked at it as it came off of the machine.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: And he said, Governor, I'm not going to blow smoke
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: up your dress. Your atrophy is gone. He said, I
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: have no idea why this has happened. But he said,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: the difference between your initial baseline scan and six months later,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: clearly the atrophy in your brain is gone. He said,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: your brain looks like a 40-year-old. Now, the reason I
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: share that story with you is because, number one, that's
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: partly what drives me about this, is that there is
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: a regenerative aspect of this medicine that we don't really
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: understand yet. And if it does what we think it's
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: going to do, and that's the reason these clinical trials
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: are just so stunningly important. That's the reason what the
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: the Center for Brain Health and what they're going to
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: be doing and the data they're going to be collecting.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: I'm convinced of what this data is going to show.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: But for all of those individuals out there who don't
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: have substance abuse problems, who weren't traumatized as a child,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: but who have been concussed, and we know that that
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: damage is out there and that the cumulative side, Robert Gallery,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: that great, a professional football player who had really bad CTE.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: And he will tell you today this medicine saved his life.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: My question for you, Joe Rogan, is how many times
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: do you think you've been concussed in life?
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: Dozens.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd have to go back and think about times
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: most of it was from sparring or a few from
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: fights but if.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: We think about that if there is this cumulative effect.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah are you how old are you now.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: 58 would Joe Rogan be willing to say you know
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: what I've seen enough I believe that this medicine does
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: what you say it will do and for a person
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: like me that it could be incredibly helpful to my
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 3: my long term plan of living a long and healthy
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: and engaged life that Joe Rogan would go and be
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: treated with Ibogaine.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah I would definitely I would definitely do it I'm
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: very fascinated by it I mean I've never heard anybody
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: say I wish I didn't do it.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Hey He mentioned his brain scans post-treatment. A couple of
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: weeks ago, while I was at that One Earth gathering,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: I met a lady whom I will call Lonnie, and
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: she had just returned from a navigating treatment in November
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: of 25. She related an early life of just ungodly
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: physical abuse by her father, who was addicted to OxyContin.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: You know, we began this conversation about the realities of
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: the opioid epidemic in America. While death is the most
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: terminal outcome, is measured down about 700,000 Americans, there is
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: a much broader web of hardcore travesty that exists around
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: each of those death outcomes. And Lonnie experienced that. She
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: had multiple concussions from her own father. Like many individuals
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: who experience trauma of this nature, she developed her own
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: drug addiction. She was in and out of jail. She
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: was homeless at a different point in time. She managed
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: to get recovered. She had a separate traumatic brain injury
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: that was fairly severe in 2018. And then she was
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with what I believe is called young-onset Parkinson's, Parkinson's
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: diagnosis that is pre-age 50. Her Parkinson's had progressed to
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: the point to where she could not write because of
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: the tremulousness in her hands. So when I saw her
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: two weeks ago and she introduced herself, she had all
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: of the appearance and affect of a perfectly healthy human being.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: It was only after we sat down and she explained
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: what her experience had been and where she was at
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: now that the Ibogaine disclosure was made. Her hand was
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: just as calm as mine. And she said that it
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: had been essentially three months and that she had been
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: able to resume a normal life and that her mind
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: felt restored. Now, based on the responses we got after
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: our first interview with you, I want to be very
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: careful here. This is truly the edge of science. And
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: there is much unknown about the variety of Parkinson's that
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: this can treat. There's some suggestion that it is better
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: for those who have a genetic predisposition for the disease,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: that it is for those who contract Parkinson's as the
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: result of environmental exposure. Ibogaine does not appear to have
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: any impact on Parkinson's developed as a result of exposure
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: to environmental toxin. The stage of the disease at which
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: you catch it also appears to make a big difference.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: The earlier, the better.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: It has also been asserted that Ibogaine does not cure Parkinson's.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: What it does is slows disease progressions and creates for
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: some a broad window of opportunity for the restoration of
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: function that can dramatically improve the quality of life. Now,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just given a number of qualifiers about its impact
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: and efficacy on one individual, but think about what we
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: just said here. This is a woman who was diagnosed
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: with young-onset Parkinson's. She had lost the ability to write
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: because of the tremulousness in her hands. She's four months
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: out from her treatment, and she's been able to resume
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: her full normal life with a complete restoration of function.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: If we could get a COVID vaccine out in nine months,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: there is no reason why, with the focused effort of
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: Texas and the other states we'll discuss here momentarily, that
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: we cannot achieve the moonshot of our time within three
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: years or less, and that is the completion of an
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine medication that can be fully integrated into the U.S.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: healthcare system and made just as universally available as every
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: ineffective opioid-based treatment that we currently deploy through the medical
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: system at a cost of $ 700, 000 per patient, sponsored by Indivior,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: which is one of the chief pharmaceutical developers of everything
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: that we have that fails 75% of the time. Yeah,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: If we could do it, it would be pretty extraordinary.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: And if it is done, I really do believe that
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: it would have a complete changing of society. When people
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: have no hope and there's nothing, and then all of
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: a sudden there's something that comes along that you do
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: it once and it's an 85% effective rate, and you
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: do it twice and it's in the high 90s. I mean, change.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: How many people are out there struggling with something, whether
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: it's alcoholism, whether it's obesity, whether it's, You know, that's
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: another thing. Like there's people that are calming themselves with food, right?
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: And it's masking.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: That's probably a sugar addiction, don't you think? I mean,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 3: from the standpoint of— It is.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: But for a lot of people, there's something else. You know,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: for some people, it's sexual abuse when they're younger and
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: they eat. It's— Interesting. It's an addiction.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: And it's not just a physical addiction. It's a psychological addiction.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: I brought up gambling because I know a lot of
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: people that are addicted to gambling.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: Pornography.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pornography. Sure. There's a lot of things.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: The non-sexual models we mentioned are ones who had developed
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: those eating disorders, one of which was a compulsive eater
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: as a result of that childhood sexual abuse. And Ibogaine
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: was the treatment of last resort, not the first option.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: And their own recovery story, which can be found on
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: the Americans for Abagain website, is truly extraordinary. And speaking
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: of extraordinary, when we came in here to push Texas,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: our belief was and still is and is now playing
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: out at scale that if Texas did this, it would
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: be joined by a number of other states who are
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: no longer willing to sit and wait on an inefficient
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: program often incompetent, and also incompetently corrupt federal bureaucracy that
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: will not move in response to the genuine needs of
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: the American people at the pace that it needs to.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: There are a variety of well-intentioned reformers within the current administration,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: Secretary Kennedy, Secretary Collins, and others who have voiced their
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: support for the advancement of plant medicine as breakthrough treatments
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: primarily for U.S. warfighters, but also for other members of
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: our society for whom these medications could help. We believe
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: that these individuals are stymied by two realities. The first
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: reality is the Byzantine complexity of the federal bureaucracy, the
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: degree to which it has been compromised by the institutional
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: capture of much of its functioning by companies that make
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: money on keeping problems alive. We think they're probably also
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: stymied by perhaps some other political cross-currents within the administration
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: that view psychedelics with skepticism and that are therefore willing
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: to be indiscriminate in their resistance to the advancement of
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: any of them, when in fact the advancement of this
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: one is of existential critical importance as a breakthrough treatment
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: for millions of Americans who need it now. And so
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: to that end, Americans for Ibogaine following the Texas success
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: of convened a gathering of 200 people in Aspen, Colorado
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: in November of last year. These individuals were invited, appointed,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: and elected state officials from 22 individual states and aligned
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: citizens of influence who would be willing, as the Texans
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: were here, to get behind efforts in state legislatures to
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: create a partnership with Texas that by end result will
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: form the unstoppable external force through the states that can
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: crash through the federal wall using not just their resources,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: but their political influence to execute one unified FDA drug
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: development trial and to force the federal government to be
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: responsive to everything that is required to ensure it is successful.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: So as we sit here today, we have been working
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: with elected officials in Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, New Hampshire,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: South Carolina, Vermont, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, South Dakota, and California,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: each of whom have legislators who are willing to introduce
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: and to pursue bills to join their states into Texas
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: as is trial. Governor Perry and I spoke to the
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: American Legislative Exchange Council as keynote speakers on December 5th
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: of last year. This is an umbrella think tank organization
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: for center-right, mostly Republican legislatures from across the country. In
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: its entire existence, ALEC has taken two positions when it
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: comes on the war on drugs. More prison, more penalties,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: more prison, more penalties. Ad infinitum. After we spoke about
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: the necessity of Ibogaine's medical integration into the United States
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: and the capacity of the states to force this reality
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: into being, Alec issued a formal position statement as well
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: as model legislation endorsing what we call the American Ibogaine
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: Initiative to bring the states all together to make this
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: happen with one unified voice. And so now, as we
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: sit here with you today, in the state of Tennessee,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: there are two bills, one each in the state House
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: and the state Senate, that are making its way through
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: that legislature to join Texas. Before we walked in here
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: this morning, The Tennessee Senate Finance Committee voted 11 to
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: nothing to move Tennessee's bill forward to the full state
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: Senate for consideration and what will, I believe, be passage.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: And I would like to give a shout out to
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: a special sister by the name of Ricky Harris, who
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: has led that Tennessee campaign. Right now, there are two
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: bills in the Missouri legislature, House Bill 2817 and Senate
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: Bill 1581, which are receiving good, considerate, deliberative comments. thought
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: by legislators there, but frankly need a little motivation. So
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: if you're in Missouri and you want to see Ibogaine
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: medicine for your family member, for your community, for your state,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: you call into the Missouri legislature and say, move the
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine bill forward to join Missouri with Texas. Oklahoma. The
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma House of Representatives has passed its Ibogaine bill. It
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: is now pending in its Senate. In Louisiana, Senate Bill
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: 43 has been introduced to join that state to Texas.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: And in what I can only describe, as full circle justice.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: The Kentucky Senate passed Senate Bill 77 by a margin
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: of 35 to 2 to join Kentucky where this all
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: began with Texas as a state partner in this Ibogaine
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: drug development trial. It is now sitting in the Kentucky
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: House of Representatives. So you, if you are at home,
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: please call the Kentucky House of Representatives and ask them
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: to pass the Kentucky Ibogaine initiative so the state will
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: not be left out. Now, here are some just Unbelievable
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: words are going to come out of my mouth. The
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: state of West Virginia, their House of Delegates by a
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: vote of 96 to nothing, and their state Senate unanimously
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: passed their Ibogaine bill to join Texas, and it has
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: now been sent to their governor for signature. And the
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: one that is the most poignant and moving for all
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: the obvious reasons, the state of Mississippi, the crucible for
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: the triumph of uniquely American hope over horror, and of
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: the leadership of Representative Sam Creekmore. Its State House of
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: Representatives passed by a margin of 111 to 1, and
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: its State Senate passed by a margin of 51 to 1.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: The Mississippi Ibogaine Initiative, which will tie the state of
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Mississippi with a $ 5 million appropriation from its opioid fund
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: to Texas to develop the most powerful psychedelic on the
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: planet has a breakthrough treatment for trauma and addiction for
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: the people of Mississippi.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: It is going to be signed, actually has been legally
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: signed by Governor Reeves, Governor Tate Reeves, and Governor Perry
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: and I have asked for a special signing ceremony with
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: Representative Creekmore, his legislative leaders there, to stand in Jackson,
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: Mississippi and see that signed into law as a matter
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: of ceremonial formality. What a wonderfully redemptive opportunity that we
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: have here to shepherd. And we hope and pray that
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: our organization can be sufficiently resourced and sufficiently engaged over
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: the next three years so that we can see this
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: process to conclusion. I'll mention a couple of others since
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: we're talking about the capacity to make this a broad-based
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: humanitarian mission that improves the human condition. Just Friday, before
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: traveling down here on Sunday, I received a letter from
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: the government of Gabon naming Americans for Ibogaine as its
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: official partner for the advancement of Iboga medicine globally. Gabon
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: has 2.3 million people. It's got 100,000 square miles of
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: territory that's the modern Garden of Eden. I've had the
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: opportunity to take a trip there from, and I mean
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: trip as in the geographic sense, not the Iboga trip,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: though I hope that that will be on the agenda
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: in the ceremonial way sometime within the next year. We
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: traveled there from January 6th to January 20th. And if
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: someone would have said, when you go to Gabon, you're
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: going to have one of the most down-home experiences you've
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: ever had in my life, it would have blown my mind.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: But it was a fabulous journey, one in which they
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: were jubilant about our ability to demonstrate that what they
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: call the sacred wood, in fact, is one of the
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: most scientifically advanced substances that has perhaps ever been discovered.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: And we're honored that the government would choose us as
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: their partner to move this forward. On Monday, after a
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: conference call with Chief Gary Batten, I can confirm that
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: the Choctaw Nation will seek to join Texas in the
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: expansion of this Ibogaine drug development trial onto their sovereign
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: territory as the third largest Native American tribe in the country.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: On April the 7th, I will be traveling to Durant, Oklahoma,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: for what is being called the Intertribal Council Meeting of
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: what they describe as the Five Civilized Tribes. That's their name,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: not mine. This is a gathering of the leadership of
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: the Choctaw, the Chickasaw, the Cherokee, the Muskegee, and the Seminole.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: We expect a passage of a resolution that I will
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: be there to lobby for, where the five civilized tribes
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: will declare their solidarity with Americans for Ibogaine for the
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: integration of this divine emancipator into the U.S. healthcare system
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: as expeditiously as possible and make all of their resources
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: available to explore the extent to which we can operationalize
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: Ibogaine medicine as quickly as possible. And it's my hope
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: and aspiration that we will see all of Native America
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: join this effort before the end of this year.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: Can I stop you there? Would that make it so
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: that they would be able to immediately establish retreats there?
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: So similar to the way they have casinos? Because they
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: don't have the same sort of regulations that some states do.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: Tribal sovereignty is an area of the law with which
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: I am not familiar. I would not be able to
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: speak to the degree to which they could autonomously open
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: a clinic. The most immediate issue would be related to
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: the creation of a supply chain because you have traveled
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: through interstate commerce in the U.S. states, which you theoretically restricted. However,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: there is one spectacular opportunity not just to expedite the
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: creation of Ibogaine treatment access for Native America, but for
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: all of America. And this gets into... Federal Right to
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: Try legislation, authored by former U.S. Senator Kyrsten Sinema and
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: signed by the President during his first administration in 2018.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: What Federal Right to Try legislation, or the law, provides
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: is that once any medication makes its way through phase
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: one safety testing within the FDA's process, then anyone with
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: a life-threatening condition for which that medication is being developed,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: can request treatment with that medication and obtain it from
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: a willing prescriber. What does that mean? That means that
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: as soon as Texas or as soon as one of
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: the Native tribes effectively completes a Phase I safety study
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: under the language of the law, anyone who has a
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: life-threatening condition for which this medication is being developed, first
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: and foremost, opioid dependency, can go and request and get
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: the treatment. We have one complication. Presently, the Drug Enforcement Administration,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: in keeping with the practice of many government agencies that
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: use their arbitrary authority to interpret law, has asserted that
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: federal right to try does not apply to schedule one substances.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: This means that based on not the language of the law,
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: but on DEA's interpretation preference of that law, once Ibogaine
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: clears through phase one, it would be disqualified for access
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: under federal right to try because the DEA says that
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: if schedule one substances were intended to be included, they
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: would have been specifically listed in the legislation. When Kyrsten Sinema,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: the author of the bill, explained to them that the
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: language is unambiguous and it says any medication, their response
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: was insolence and a refusal to honor what the statute
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: actually says, which is one of these numerous examples of
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: the use of fictitious legal realities to do violence to
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: legitimate reality. The DEA needs to be told to relent.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: on its misinterpretation and extrajudicial interpretation of federal right to
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: try to interpret it as written so that once any
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: phase one study on Ibogaine is completed, delivery can be
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: effectuated through the medical system immediately.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 3: And I might add one of the challenges that I've
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: seen over my 40 years of being involved in government
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: is that bureaucrats, the easiest way And the safest answer
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: for a bureaucrat is no. And I think that's part
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: of what we're running into in D.C. with the DEA.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: One of the issues that I certainly hope and pray
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: as we go through the summer and as we see
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 3: what's happened in Texas and Mississippi and these other states,
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: that we'll have the opportunity to sit down with President
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: Trump and to just share with him what we're doing,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: what we're seeing across the country, and that we could
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 3: potentially have a conversation about the rescheduling of Ibogaine from
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 3: one to three.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: Two or three.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: You know, just get it out of that schedule one,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 3: which there's no reason in the world, and you've talked
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: about this many times, Joe, that Ibogaine is on schedule one.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: It does have medical purposes. I mean, it's very clear
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 3: it does. And secondly, it is not addictive. So the
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 3: idea on its face that Ibogaine is shown as this
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 3: Schedule I compound is just a fallacy.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: Well, the Schedule I, the sweeping Schedule I Act of
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: 1970 is just nuts. They just threw a bunch of
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: stuff in there, many of the things that aren't even psychoactive.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: A question, the iboga tree, can it be grown in
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: the United States?
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: Theoretically.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: Is it climate dependent?
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: It's climate dependent. It's soil dependent. It is considered an
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: entourage plant whereby it absorbs. essentially the essence, not just
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: of the soil around it, but of the other botanicals.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: One of the things we learned in Gabon is that
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: much like we have grape varietals in California for all
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: the different kinds of wine that they produce, There are
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: different varieties of the iboga shrub. How it grows in
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: the north of the country is very different than how
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: it grows in the south.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: In terms of the amount of compound that's in it
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: or the type of compound that's in it?
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: The potency, the strength, the nature of its effect on
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: the person, the way that it kind of facilitates the
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: spiritual journey. There's some of it that will kind of
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: have a dark angle. There's some of it that has
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: more of a light angle. We are just really scratching
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: the surface of knowledge as to all the ways in
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: which it can vary based on how it grows naturally.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: One of the most fascinating things that we learned there,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: and this is going to give you chills. We visited
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: a five-hectare, they use the metric system, we visited a
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: five-hectare iboga plantation right in the center of Lieberville that
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: is run by one of their former prime ministers. It's
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: an experimental farm to kind of understand how it grows,
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: the optimal ways in which to grow it, and what
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: different outcomes are. So as we were walking along, we
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: came to these two small bushes. It takes for about
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: 10 years to come to maturation. We come along this
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: pathway and they were two shrubs, identical, growing just a
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: couple of feet apart from each other. And they pointed
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: those out and said, now what does that look like
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: to you? And I said, well, those are iboga shrubs.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: And they smiled and they said, well, It would appear
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: so because they are identical. They said, but in nature,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: when you find an iboga shrub, you're going to have
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: to be very careful to determine which one's which because
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: in nature it looks like they grow in pairs. One
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: is the real deal. The other is its poison imposter.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: And they grow together.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: And they look identical?
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: They look identical.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: How do you differentiate?
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: It's not until they get fully grown into their 10th year.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: One bears fruit, which is the real deal, and the
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: other does not.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: Now, how does that do you for the physical communication
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: of a mystical spiritual reality?
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: So it takes 10 years for it to come to
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: fruition to the point where it could be useful?
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Though you could use it before then, but you don't
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 2: know whether you're getting the real deal or you're just
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: killing yourself.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: When you see them grow in pairs, that's correct. So
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: there's one group of people who know how to differentiate.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: One of the things that we learned is that there
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: is a healthy underground international market for the bark. Just
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: like we use vitamin B complex or we use valerian
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: root to help us go to sleep, people in Gabon
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: will use the iboga bark for Mental acuity and just
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: like drinking a cup of coffee. I mean, to get
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: the psychoactive effect, you have to eat like five big,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: huge heaping plates of this stuff over the course of time.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: It's so bitter, it will burn your mouth. I mean,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: it's an Olympian ordeal. This is the bark. Yes, sir.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: It's an Olympian ordeal to consume the amount of bark
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: that's necessary to get that mystical effect. And you're sicker
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: than a dog the whole time you're doing it. But
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: apparently piracy in the country for the shrub is fairly prominent.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: And they explain that what poachers will do is that
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: they will take the poison imposter and basically like the
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: street supply where you put pollutants in with cocaine or
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: whatever here, they put that imposter bark in with the
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: real because you cannot visually differentiate. The Ambongo pygmy... who
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: we had the privilege of meeting, who hosted us for
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: an overnight ceremony of blessing and protection that was just phenomenal.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: They apparently can just taste the bark, even when it's
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: mixed together, and they can tell if it's adulterated with
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: the imposter. Wow. But to know that.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: Those are like sommeliers of Ibogaine.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's a great way to put it, an Ibogaine sommelier.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: Might have to go over and get tutored.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder what that process is like.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 3: Boy.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems to me that with the incredible effectiveness
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: of this compound and it being adopted by all these states,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: it almost seems inevitable that change is coming.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: Well, here's what we need to make change happen.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: We need the DEA to get on board.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: Well, we need the DEA to get on board, but
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: we need one man to get on board. and that
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: man is the President of the United States. We're here
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: to recognize America in her 250th year. 25 of those 250,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: now 10% of time, has been spent at war. And
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: there are conditions unique to war that only this medication
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: can responsibly address in a way that nothing else can.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: If there is an opportunity to improve the human condition
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: at scale, particularly for those who are even right now
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: being marched in to go and fight yet another war.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: Taking executive action that would direct Ibogaine to be moved
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: to Schedule II, that the provisions of the Halt Fentanyl
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: Act be applied to the Texas Multistate Ibogaine Drug Development Trial,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: that the DEA be directed to interpret federal right to
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: try so as to not exclude Schedule I medications that
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: are in drug development and that it be appropriately interpreted
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: so that any medication that makes it through Phase I
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: can be accessed by a person with a life-threatening condition.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: And then directing that federal scientific research agencies, whether they
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: be within Health and Human Services or the Pentagon, come
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: alongside the states in direct partnership to fund and foster
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: the accelerated pharmacological development of Ibogaine so that this medication
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: can make its way all the way through the FDA's
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: process with their supportive guidance within three years or less.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: It is the moonshot of our time. And if there's
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: a humanitarian legacy to be left for the ages by
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: a president who very much wishes to have a legacy
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: that is well reflected upon by posterity, this is one
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: of the most monumental opportunities he has to help folks
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: at scale in a way that no president perhaps has before.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: We're at an inflection point in history, not just for
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: this country, but globally.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I certainly hope that this message reaches the president,
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: and I will try to make sure that it does.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think in terms of the amount of
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: people that it can help and the crisis that our
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: country is enduring with opiate addiction, with PTSD, with all
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: sorts of trauma, with CTE, with from sports, from car accidents,
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: and what have you. I mean, it's astonishing that this
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: is even a struggle. When you consider the effectiveness of this,
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: it's astonishing that we have to plead and that you
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: have to put in so much work, and kudos to
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: you for doing that, and kudos to Dan Patrick for
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: this recent adoption of it here in Texas. And I
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: just can only hope that momentum is on the side
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: that's correct and that this is implemented through the entire
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: country and that people wake up and realize, like, we
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: can help people. And everyone at this point in time,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: because of the opioid crisis, everyone is touched by this.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: Everyone has a family member. Everyone knows someone, a friend,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: a neighbor, everyone. Everyone knows someone who's been hit by this.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: I have friends that have no problems with anything else
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: and they had an injury and got hooked on opiates
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: and had a terrible time kicking it.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 3: Opioids are, I'll use the word demonic. I just, I
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 3: don't know any other way to describe it. It's a
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: good word.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: It robs people of their life.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 3: And to have seen, you know, back in Kentucky, where
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 3: this all started, in my opinion, in your work there,
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 3: and to have the success that we're seeing now in
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 3: Kentucky and having it blocked historically when you were there
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 3: at the Opioid, abatement commission and the current governor being
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 3: a part of that blockade, if you will, former employee
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 3: of the Sackler family. And today to have the opportunity
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 3: for the Kentucky people of Kentucky to finally get the
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 3: opportunity to make right what they got so tragically impacted
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 3: by back in the late 90s and the 2000s. I just,
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, it gives me great hope, not just for
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 3: this country, but for the side of righteousness that this
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 3: happens in a big and a powerful way. Here, here.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: He mentions the Kentucky experience. Before we rolled out the
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: Abigail Initiative there and ran the opioid, stood up the
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: opioid commission, I thought our first job was to go
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: and to hear from the people of the state. We
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: were getting a billion dollars in settlement fines. This money
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: was coming to us because thousands of their family members
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: had died. So recognizing that confidence in government is at
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: an all-time low, I thought it was important to go
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: out and say, hey, here's who we are, here's the
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: job we've been given, here's the resource we have. Tell
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: us what need you have in your community that we
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: can look to fund. This is something that needs to
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: be accessible to grassroots organizations. It needs to be accountable
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: to you as people. And we need to make sure
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: we're transparent with how we use this money. But our
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: first job is to listen. Well, over the course of
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: 20 town halls across the state, Tuesday evenings from 6 p.m.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: until we wrapped up, what began as a 15-minute technocratic
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: presentation of what this state commission does turned into these mass...
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: catharsis events where hundreds of people, thousands over the course
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: of those 20 town halls, poured out the depths of
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: their grief right at our feet. And after they did,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: the sum total of their response to us was, we
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: don't think that you have the competence or the integrity
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: to do anything that's going to make a meaningful difference
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: in this life, in our lives. And we don't expect
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: one cent of this money is going to make the
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: least bit of difference for us. At one of these
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: town halls, I heard about a young woman by the
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: name of Tamara. And the woman who told Tamara's story
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: was a volunteer at a clinic for the survivors of
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. This particular clinic made sure that children
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: received appropriate medical treatment, that they received proper therapeutic counseling,
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: and that they were placed in family circumstances where they
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: could perhaps have a chance to have a decent life.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: So this volunteer told about meeting a young woman by
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: the name of Tamara when Tamara was 10 years old,
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: had been horrifically sexually abused by a family member. Tamara
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: had to have a series of reconstructive surgeries because of
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: how awful it was. And she said that she worked
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: with Tamara for about two or three years and that
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: she went to her adopted family and she hadn't been
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: heard from since, and that she assumed that that was,
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: despite how awful her circumstances were when she came through
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: the door, that she managed to get well and go
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: on and have a relatively functional and happy life, as
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: happy as one can to be a survivor of those circumstances.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: This same woman said that about 10 years later, she
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: was volunteering at the Perry County Kentucky Detention Center in
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: the county seat of Hazard, And that she was offering
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: mindfulness and yoga classes to inmates there, just as a volunteer.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: And she said she went in one evening to teach
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: her class. And that she saw this young woman sitting
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: in the corner after herself, kind of withdrawn. She didn't
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: want to come participate in any of the yoga exercises
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: or anything, and that she was looking at her. And
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: she said, you know, even though she was an adult,
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: she looked kind of like what this young woman appeared, Tamara,
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: when she was 10 years old. She said, so I
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: walked up to her and knelt down beside her and
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: I said, is your name Tamara? And she said that
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: young woman looked up at her and recognized and eyes brightened.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: She said, yes, how'd you know? She said, I'm the
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: volunteer who worked with you when you came to our
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: clinic when you were 10. What are you doing in here?
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: And Tamara explained. that because of the surgeries that she
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: had performed to be reconstructed, they had given her opioids.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: And that what began to treat her physical pain, she
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: continued to rely upon to treat her tremendous spiritual and
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: emotional pain. And she had gotten busted by an oxy
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: on the street by a deputy with the Perry County
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department and put in jail. You think about what
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: I just said about how this young woman's life got
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: started off. And the response of power to her was
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: a prison. This is why what we're doing is so necessary.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: And Governor Perry mentions one other reality that's important. Some
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: of your viewers may have seen a Politico article published
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: on Sunday about a presidential aspirant by the name of
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: Andy Beshear, who is the current Kentucky governor. Andy Beshear
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: was the Attorney General of Kentucky before he was governor.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: He is the son of his father, Steve Beshear, who
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: was governor for eight years between 2007 and 2015. Andy's
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: greatest accomplishment is being his father's son. because he has
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: never accomplished anything outside of his father's lap. The legislature
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: in Kentucky has been controlled by Republican supermajorities over the
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: entirety of his term, and everything for which he claims
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: credit actually belongs to them by way of accomplishment. There
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: are a few things for which he can claim credit.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: One is shutting down the state of Kentucky harder than
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom shut down the state of California. which resulted
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: in the educational hobbling of an entire generation of Kentucky
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: children who were already well behind national average standards on
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: both reading and math. You could go to a liquor
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: store or a strip club for months in Kentucky before
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: you could send your child to a public school. Andy
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: Beshear is responsible for that. He shut down the state's
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: entire economy, He had an antiquated unemployment benefits system that
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: he instructed the director of to make sure that his
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: contributors and his family members were placed into the front
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: of the line while regular everyday people at home got
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: a busy signal for months on end and had no
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: financial lifeline while his family and friends got valet treatment.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: When this was discovered, he scapegoated the director of the
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: unemployment system for following his own instructions, a guy by
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: the name of Muncie McNamara. And Mr. McNamara took his
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: own life. But the most egregious reality about Andy Beshear
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: and his father pertains to the fact that they were
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: both law partners at the law firm that represented Purdue
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: Pharma against the people of Kentucky and the litigation over
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: OxyContin while they were law partners there. Andy Beshear and
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: his daddy drew law partner paychecks off Purdue Pharma client
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: bills while they were there. And the people of Kentucky
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: should have received a billion dollars, but instead received a
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: measly $ 24 million payout from Purdue Pharma because Andy and
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: his daddy's law firm malpracticed that case. The public record
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: will establish that as part of the Purdue Pharma settlement,
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: 17 million documents were destroyed, the case was put under seal,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: and as a condition of the settlement, their law firm
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: was allowed to cure their malpractice of the case, which
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: resulted in a $ 24 million settlement within days of Andy
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: Beshear becoming the Attorney General. That's right, the Attorney General.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: I said I've been a Republican all my life, and
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: I have. My family's been Republican going back to the
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: Civil War. I don't care if it's Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris,
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: Pete Buttigieg, that Illinois governor, Governor Pritzker, any national Democrat
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: who needs my time, my effort, whatever I can offer
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: by way of volunteer resources to make sure that Andy
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: Beshear never sniffs the sewer grate of the White House,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: they've got it. In this Politico article, Andy talks about
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: in much the same way as other performative public piety
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: purveyors that his life is guided by the golden rule
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: and the Good Samaritan. He likes to wear his Sunday
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: school and deacon affiliations on his sleeve as so many
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: other performative public piety figures do. If he were actually
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: going to preach the part of the Bible that he
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: has lived in, he would talk more about Judas and
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: the 40 pieces of silver than he would any golden
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: rule and the good Samaritan. And I just want to
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: make sure that the people of home and the people
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: of America know who this man is as the national
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: media takes up Kentucky media's grotesque narrative about his decency
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: and tries to lie him into the White House. Thank
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: you for letting me say that. It's been a long
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: time coming.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: I understand. Um, Anything else before we wrap this up?
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: You think we covered it all?
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 3: I think we hit it good. Thank you, Joe.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 3: You have been a really big supporter of this effort.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's just incredible. I mean, I can't
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: believe it's happening. You know, I'd always kind of given
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: up hope that people would wake up to the powerful
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: potential that a lot of these compounds have to change
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: people's lives.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I'm sure there were, uh, some teachers of
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 3: mine back in, uh, the 1950s that, uh, the idea
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 3: that that little bar headed kid, uh, that is, you know, obviously, uh,
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 3: not paying a lot of attention could somehow or another
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 3: end up being the governor of the great state of Texas. And, um,
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 3: there's probably a long, long list of those as a
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 3: matter of fact. And I'm sure there's some people over
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 3: the course of the last, uh, uh, 15 years is
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 3: I matriculated up through the political process has said, uh,
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 3: you know, the idea that this guy is going to
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 3: be standing up, uh, uh, putting his reputation on the
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 3: line for something like psychedelics is that that ain't going
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 3: to happen. Uh, but it goes back to your point
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: about be curious, be courageous, uh, And make a difference.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 3: And you're doing it, Joe Rogan. Thank you, man.
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you too, Brian.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And do you mind if I share one
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: last thing?
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: And because it is the 250th anniversary of the country,
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: this comes from the heart. You know, the bicentennial children
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: have had the blessing of being the grandchildren of that
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: greatest generation that overcame the Great Depression, defeated Nazism, killed
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: Jim Crow, and crushed totalitarian communism. That greatest generation lived, suffered, bled,
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: and died to leave us the shining city on the hill.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: Over the past 50 years, the bicentennial children, or those
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: who are known as Generation X, have experienced the mass
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: extinction of family and community. We are the first generational
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: cohort of mass refugees from obliterated biological families who had
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: to seek and build new families of choice based on
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: the salvation bond of unconditional affection, rejected only the superficial,
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: socialized separatisms of the skin suits into which we have
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: been born. Over the past 30 years, we have watched truth, justice,
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: and the American way be overrun by institutional deceit, white-collar criminality,
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: in the thieving tyrant's will, an odious alignment of official
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: depravity which has produced the opioid epidemic, the gravest engineered
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: humanitarian catastrophe to play out within our borders since the
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: end of the 19th century, and an epidemic which has
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: disfigured this country. The 2008 financial crisis, which forcibly dispossessed
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: millions of us from the American dream, including 52% of
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: African-American homeowners, and sent us the bill for the cost
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: of our dispossession, a bill that everyone under the age
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: of 40 continues to pay through their lack of economic mobility.
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: And finally, and most deplorably, 25 years of unremitting warfare,
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: which has taken exponentially more service member lives here at
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: home by suicide than have been lost at battlefields abroad.
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: Over the last 10 years, 1.5 million Americans have died
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: from drug overdose, alcohol-related disease, and suicide, a figure that
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: exceeds the total number of war casualties going all the
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: way back to 1776. We've got 102 counties with life
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: expectancies less than that of North Korea. 18% of respondents
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: to a recent Pew Research Center poll said that they
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: believe the federal government has the capacity to do the
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: right thing. a figure that hasn't been above 30% since 2007.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: 80% of respondents to an October 2025 Wall Street Journal
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: poll have said that the American dream is dead. Power
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: has answered these unconscionable realities with a maelstrom of bureaucratic absurdity,
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: impudent incompetence, and predatory corruption. all with the blessing of
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: the law which has used its power to bind, torture,
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: and kill the truth. In the decades prior to July 14, 1789,
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: the French government had ruthlessly imposed its burdens, abusively imposed
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: its costs, and ravenously consumed the future of its people.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: The arrogance of the aristocracy ultimately answered to the desperate
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 1: determination of the peasantry and its guillotine blade. We are
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: here to pursue one of the greatest humanitarian missions ever
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: undertaken to serve and exalt the primacy of the human soul.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: As we sit here right now, there are millions of
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: Americans who have no sense of greater purpose or of
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: even why they are alive, who mourn to see the
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 1: sunrise when it comes up and through their windows. And
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: what they need to know is that they are indeed divine.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: There's only one thing that is known to produce iron,
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: and that's the supernova of a star. The iron in
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: our blood originated in a supernova eons ago. Every human
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: being has stardust running through their blood. And the movement
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: that Governor Perry and I are leading is one that
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: aims to recognize the reality of that human divinity. We
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: are desperate and we are determined and we will crawl
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: the last mile to deliver good titans unto the meek,
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: captives and the opening of the prison to them that
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: are bound. Glory, glory, hallelujah. The truth is marching on.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: And thank you, sir, for letting us proclaim it right
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: here on your platform, the Walter Cronkite of our age.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: That was a beautiful way to end it. Thank you.
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you, gentlemen. Bye for now.