Transcript

“AirTifa.” · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
0:22
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
0:23
Speaker 1: Later in the pod, Dan talks to Rene Montgomery, a
0:25
Speaker 1: WNBA player who's taken this season off to focus on
0:28
Speaker 1: activism and social justice. Before that, we'll talk about how
0:31
Speaker 1: Donald Trump may have obliterated whatever bounce he got from
0:33
Speaker 1: his convention and what Joe Biden's big fundraising numbers could
0:36
Speaker 1: mean for the final stretch of the race. 61 days?
0:41
Speaker 1: I think we're at 61 days, Dan.
0:42
Speaker 2: I think it's 62. Is it 62?
0:45
Speaker 1: Are we going to.
0:46
Speaker 2: Do the thing where we never know what the right
0:48
Speaker 2: day is because we can't decide if we're going to
0:49
Speaker 2: count Election Day? Okay, cool.
0:51
Speaker 1: Probably. Quick housekeeping note. Check out this week's Pod Save
0:53
Speaker 1: the World with Tommy on vacation. Ben is joined by...
0:57
Speaker 1: Karen Attia of The Washington Post to talk about her
0:59
Speaker 1: former colleague, the late Jamal Khashoggi, Jared Kushner's coddling of
1:03
Speaker 1: dictators and the global legacy of actor Chadwick Boseman. We
1:07
Speaker 1: also have a brand new episode of Campaign Experts React. Dan,
1:11
Speaker 1: tell us who was on this week.
1:12
Speaker 2: I talked to Alex O'Keefe, who's the creative director at
1:15
Speaker 2: the Sunrise Movement and the person behind the viral sensation,
1:20
Speaker 2: the green new dealmaker ad about Ed Markey. As I
1:24
Speaker 2: said in that episode, in the short and storied history
1:26
Speaker 2: of this YouTube series, no ad has ever been as
1:28
Speaker 2: requested as that one. So instead of just talking about
1:31
Speaker 2: the ad, we had the guy who actually made the
1:32
Speaker 2: ad on. Alex is an incredibly smart, incredibly talented ad
1:36
Speaker 2: maker who really will make you feel more optimistic about
1:39
Speaker 2: the future of democratic politics, knowing there are people like
1:41
Speaker 2: Alex in there. It's a fascinating conversation. I even was
1:44
Speaker 2: forced to nerd out on video and film techniques because
1:48
Speaker 2: Elijah made me. But it's a lot of fun. And
1:50
Speaker 2: I think it might be my favorite episode we have done.
1:54
Speaker 2: Alex is great.
1:56
Speaker 1: I have a little beef with Elijah that he thought
1:58
Speaker 1: that one scene was supposed to be a take on
2:01
Speaker 1: the new Pope when it was obviously supposed to reference
2:05
Speaker 1: the departed because it's a fucking Boston ad, man.
2:10
Speaker 2: It is pretty great in there that Elijah out there
2:14
Speaker 2: did himself with that one, but the, but like one
2:18
Speaker 2: of the great anecdotes from that interview that Alex told
2:22
Speaker 2: me is that they watched the that departed with Ed
2:25
Speaker 2: Markey before making that ad to get him an appropriately
2:27
Speaker 2: Boston mentality.
2:29
Speaker 1: Wow, that is great. That is so funny. One of
2:34
Speaker 1: my favorite movies.
2:35
Speaker 2: I mean, you were required to say that as you
2:38
Speaker 2: sip a Dunkin' with a Red Sox cap on.
2:41
Speaker 1: Also, thank you to the more than 21,000 of you
2:45
Speaker 1: who have signed up to be poll workers this week.
2:47
Speaker 1: You absolutely crushed our goal in the first day. It
2:50
Speaker 1: was 10,000. You blew right by it. Because you did,
2:53
Speaker 1: more polling places will be open, which means more people
2:56
Speaker 1: will have the chance to vote. And if you still
2:58
Speaker 1: want to sign up to be a poll worker, you can.
3:00
Speaker 1: We encourage you to. Go to votesaveamerica.com slash everylastvote. All right,
3:07
Speaker 1: let's get to the news. So last week, Republicans packaged
3:10
Speaker 1: a bunch of lies, racial grievances, and hatch act violations
3:14
Speaker 1: into a carefully scripted convention that ended with their nominee
3:17
Speaker 1: reading a teleprompter speech with almost no ad libs. This week,
3:21
Speaker 1: Donald Trump compared a police officer killing unarmed black men
3:24
Speaker 1: to missing a putt, repeatedly denied that he suffered a
3:27
Speaker 1: series of mini-strokes even though no one said he had,
3:30
Speaker 1: urged his supporters to commit voter fraud by casting their
3:32
Speaker 1: ballot twice, and sat down with Laura Ingraham for an
3:35
Speaker 1: interview on Fox where he said this.
3:38
Speaker 3: And Biden, well Biden is, I don't even like to
3:41
Speaker 3: mention Biden because he's not controlling anything.
3:43
Speaker 2: Who do you think is pulling Biden's strings?
3:45
Speaker 1: Is it former Obama officials?
3:47
Speaker 2: People that you've never heard of.
3:49
Speaker 3: People that are in the dark shadows, people that.
3:52
Speaker 2: What does that mean? That sounds like conspiracy theory, dark shadows.
3:54
Speaker 3: No, people that you haven't heard of. They're people that
3:57
Speaker 3: are on the streets. They're people that are controlling the streets.
4:01
Speaker 3: We had somebody get on a plane from a certain
4:03
Speaker 3: city this weekend. And in the plane, it was almost
4:06
Speaker 3: completely loaded with thugs. wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms
4:12
Speaker 3: with gear and this and that. They're on a plane.
4:15
Speaker 3: I'll tell you sometime, but it's under investigation right now.
4:20
Speaker 3: But they came from a certain city, and this person
4:23
Speaker 3: was coming to the Republican National Convention. And there were
4:27
Speaker 3: like seven people on the plane like this person.
4:30
Speaker 2: And then a lot of people were on the plane
4:32
Speaker 2: to do big damage. They were coming from the region.
4:34
Speaker 2: Planning for Washington.
4:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was all, this is all happening.
4:37
Speaker 1: So, So Trump made this story his campaign message the
4:42
Speaker 1: next day as well when he said this to reporters.
4:45
Speaker 4: A person was on a plane, said that there were
4:48
Speaker 4: about six people People like that person, more or less.
4:53
Speaker 4: And what happened is the entire plane filled up with
4:56
Speaker 4: the looters, the anarchists, the rioters, people that obviously were
5:00
Speaker 4: looking for trouble. And the person felt very uncomfortable in
5:04
Speaker 4: the plane. This would be a person you know, so
5:06
Speaker 4: I will see whether or not I can get that person.
5:09
Speaker 4: I'll let them know, and I'll see whether or not
5:11
Speaker 4: I can get that person to speak to you. But
5:14
Speaker 4: this was a firsthand account of a plane going from
5:17
Speaker 4: Washington to wherever. and I'll see if I can get
5:20
Speaker 4: that information for you. Maybe they'll speak to you, maybe
5:23
Speaker 4: they won't.
5:23
Speaker 5: All right, so I.
5:27
Speaker 1: Want to talk about all the crazy shit he's done
5:29
Speaker 1: over the last few days, but I do want to
5:30
Speaker 1: start with what our good friend Cody Keenan is calling
5:34
Speaker 1: Air Tifa. What was he trying to do here? Where
5:44
Speaker 1: did this come from? What is going on?
5:46
Speaker 2: Well, it does actually have I mean, like all Trump things,
5:50
Speaker 2: it is a crazy thing that some crazy person told
5:52
Speaker 2: him that he took completely and totally seriously. This has
5:55
Speaker 2: been a conspiracy theory that has been going around primarily
5:59
Speaker 2: on Facebook for a long time. So much so that
6:01
Speaker 2: some local police officials have actually been forced to put
6:03
Speaker 2: out statements to say it's not true. Devin Nunez, who
6:08
Speaker 2: is a canary in the coal mine of crazy, talked
6:12
Speaker 2: about this on a radio interview last week, I think.
6:15
Speaker 2: And so- It's just like the first– like last thing
6:19
Speaker 2: in the ear is first thing out of the mouth.
6:21
Speaker 2: And so Trump kept pushing this. And you can feel
6:24
Speaker 2: him doubling down on all of his, uh-oh, I might
6:28
Speaker 2: be caught lying crutches. Saying he's under investigation is directly
6:31
Speaker 2: related to his I'm under audit, which is why I
6:33
Speaker 2: can't release my taxes crutch. Then the other one that
6:36
Speaker 2: he likes to do is, Someone famous told me this,
6:40
Speaker 2: but I can't violate their confidence because, as you know,
6:43
Speaker 2: what plane you fly on is very private. Remember his
6:46
Speaker 2: friend in Paris who told him about the no-go zones,
6:51
Speaker 2: I think, was a classic one of a few years ago.
6:53
Speaker 1: That was a classic, classic of the genre. I just
6:58
Speaker 1: think it's like, first of all, any guesses on who
7:01
Speaker 1: the prominent person is?
7:04
Speaker 2: Originally, I've just presumed it was Rudy Giuliani who is
7:06
Speaker 2: usually the person who tells him insane things.
7:11
Speaker 1: It is sad that it's just one of those things
7:13
Speaker 1: that he probably found on Facebook, which means that the
7:15
Speaker 1: president and 40% of the public believe this story. That's right.
7:20
Speaker 1: That was my darker thought about the whole thing. But also,
7:23
Speaker 1: it's very indicative of why he continues to blow opportunities
7:29
Speaker 1: to drive a message, which is an understatement. Because Laura Ingraham,
7:34
Speaker 1: even at the beginning there, tries to throw him a lifeline,
7:37
Speaker 1: which she does through the whole interview. You should watch it.
7:39
Speaker 1: It's like embarrassing for her. But she continues to try
7:41
Speaker 1: to throw him these lifelines. Like, so who's pulling Biden's strings?
7:45
Speaker 1: Former Obama officials, right? Like maybe, you know, like. Bunch
7:49
Speaker 1: of liberals, bunch of leftists trying to control Biden, pulling
7:52
Speaker 1: him to the left. He's going to have more liberal
7:54
Speaker 1: policies than you want, right? A potential message that may
7:57
Speaker 1: be effective. No, decides to avoid all of that and
8:01
Speaker 1: just go right to people in the dark shadows dressed
8:04
Speaker 1: in black who jumped on a fucking plane. Those are
8:08
Speaker 1: the people controlling Joe Biden. It's unbelievable. I mean, do
8:12
Speaker 1: you think this is like, to me, this is starting
8:15
Speaker 1: to seem like The caravan of 2020. Not just the
8:22
Speaker 1: plane thing, but the general there's Antifa in the streets
8:26
Speaker 1: and your city and all that bullshit.
8:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I think the other thing
8:30
Speaker 2: just about Laura Ingraham I think is so notable. It's
8:32
Speaker 2: not like she's trying to give him a different message.
8:35
Speaker 2: She's trying to bring him back to his own message.
8:39
Speaker 2: The message in his ads and his conventions means she's like, no.
8:42
Speaker 2: That is not where I'm going. I'm going right to
8:44
Speaker 2: my Facebook conspiracies, which I think, and this was noted
8:47
Speaker 2: in a piece in Vox, is the dark shadowy people
8:52
Speaker 2: pulling the strings, the financiers, is all a piece of QAnon, right?
8:58
Speaker 2: It is this idea that there is this global cabal
9:01
Speaker 2: of elites that are in charge of Biden and everything else.
9:04
Speaker 2: And so there's allusions to that. To answer your question,
9:07
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has been unable to find a way to
9:11
Speaker 2: vilify Joe Biden. So he's looking for anything and everything
9:15
Speaker 2: he possibly can to scare people. And so he's just
9:17
Speaker 2: like running through a menu of things and he's been
9:20
Speaker 2: unable to do it. Just like with the caravan, it
9:23
Speaker 2: is very hard to make people care about something that
9:27
Speaker 2: is not real and is certainly secondary to the very
9:30
Speaker 2: real concerns they have about very real threats and very
9:33
Speaker 2: real dangers.
9:34
Speaker 1: And you can see in some of the polling, which
9:36
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about later, That some of this
9:39
Speaker 1: works on the margins in that in one poll, people
9:43
Speaker 1: were saying that they do believe there's been an increase
9:46
Speaker 1: in crime in some cities, but not where they live,
9:49
Speaker 1: not in their own city.
9:51
Speaker 5: Right.
9:51
Speaker 1: So by like creating this sort of imaginary threat, as
9:54
Speaker 1: he did with the caravan, as he's now doing with Antifa,
9:57
Speaker 1: he is able to get his base and some people's.
10:00
Speaker 1: to think that somewhere in the country, there may be
10:02
Speaker 1: a problem. But his challenge is that most people's reality
10:06
Speaker 1: is not that they live in a crime ridden place.
10:10
Speaker 1: It is that they are living in the middle of
10:11
Speaker 1: a pandemic where they probably can't leave their house that much.
10:14
Speaker 1: And the economy is in really bad shape. That's the
10:16
Speaker 1: reality that most people are facing. I also just want
10:19
Speaker 1: to play, this was not a clip of something that
10:22
Speaker 1: happened this week, but someone recirculated it. It was from
10:27
Speaker 1: a meeting that he had with police officers in July.
10:31
Speaker 1: And it's just one of my favorite clips of all time.
10:35
Speaker 3: And then they have cans of soup.
10:38
Speaker 1: Soup.
10:39
Speaker 3: And they throw the cans of soup. That's better than
10:42
Speaker 3: a brick because you can't throw a brick. It's too heavy.
10:45
Speaker 3: But a can of soup, you can really put some
10:46
Speaker 3: power into that, right? And then when they get caught,
10:49
Speaker 3: they say, no, this is soup for my family. They're
10:52
Speaker 3: so innocent. This is soup for my family. It's incredible.
10:56
Speaker 3: And you have people coming over with bags of soup,
10:59
Speaker 3: big bags of soup, and they lay it on the ground,
11:01
Speaker 3: and the anarchists take it, and they start throwing it
11:04
Speaker 3: at our cops, at our police. And if it hits you,
11:07
Speaker 3: that's worse than a brick because it's got force. It's
11:10
Speaker 3: the perfect size. It's, like, made perfect. And when they
11:13
Speaker 3: get caught, they say, no, this is just soup for
11:17
Speaker 3: my family. And then the media says, this is just soup.
11:21
Speaker 3: These people are very, very innocent. They're innocent people. These
11:25
Speaker 3: are just protesters. Isn't it wonderful to allow protesting?
11:29
Speaker 1: Soup for my family. It's just soup for my family.
11:32
Speaker 2: Why did that come back up yesterday?
11:35
Speaker 1: I don't know. A bunch of people started circulating because
11:37
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, it is part of this. sort
11:39
Speaker 1: of another completely imaginary story. Someone probably told them that
11:43
Speaker 1: someone got hit with a soup can once, right? Like that,
11:46
Speaker 1: there's always like a kernel of truth to these, right?
11:48
Speaker 1: Like someone probably got hit with a soup can. And
11:50
Speaker 1: now there's just like Antifa members just, you know, running
11:53
Speaker 1: around with big bags of soup. And then when they
11:56
Speaker 1: get caught, they say, it's soup for my family, soup
11:59
Speaker 1: for my family. On a more serious note, Trump also
12:02
Speaker 1: signed a memo yesterday saying that he'll be restricting federal
12:07
Speaker 1: money from cities that he's calling anarchist jurisdictions, otherwise known
12:11
Speaker 1: as Seattle, Portland, New York City, Washington, D.C., and basically,
12:15
Speaker 1: according to the memo, whatever other cities Bill Barr chooses.
12:19
Speaker 1: A former federal budget official told The Washington Post that
12:21
Speaker 1: the memo is nothing more than a campaign document that
12:24
Speaker 1: courts would almost certainly strike down. Is this another weak
12:28
Speaker 1: attempt to appear strong? To your message box point? Your
12:33
Speaker 1: now famous message box?
12:34
Speaker 5: Yes. It is.
12:36
Speaker 2: Once again, Trump, like he, as our friend David Axelrod
12:39
Speaker 2: used to say, he rolls out the big cannon and
12:41
Speaker 2: out comes a little flag that says POW. Because he's
12:44
Speaker 2: done this a thousand times now. He says, I'm going
12:46
Speaker 2: to cut off funding for sanctuary cities. I'm going to
12:48
Speaker 2: cut off firefighting funding for California and everything else. And
12:53
Speaker 2: he never does it. Because one, he is a weak
12:57
Speaker 2: coward afraid of confrontation. And two, he almost never has
13:00
Speaker 2: the legal authority to actually do it. And so people
13:02
Speaker 2: hand him a memo. He signs it with great fanfare.
13:05
Speaker 2: Some of the press cover it. But I think that
13:07
Speaker 2: most of the press is pretty skeptical of these things now.
13:10
Speaker 2: And then nothing happens afterwards. But when you make a
13:13
Speaker 2: declaration and then you don't follow up on it, you
13:16
Speaker 2: are proving your weakness to voters.
13:20
Speaker 1: And look, and I understand some of these threats he
13:22
Speaker 1: makes are legitimately scary if he could carry them out.
13:25
Speaker 1: We went through this with his threat to end birthright
13:29
Speaker 1: citizenship before the midterms in 2018. And it was fairly
13:33
Speaker 1: obvious at first that it was completely unconstitutional. He couldn't
13:37
Speaker 1: do that. It was against the law, that kind of stuff.
13:40
Speaker 1: But people are rightly afraid because he has stacked the courts.
13:44
Speaker 1: He has a Supreme Court that's favorable to him, right?
13:48
Speaker 1: But there are some things that he tries to do
13:51
Speaker 1: that are just obviously a court will still strike it down,
13:54
Speaker 1: even a pretty friendly court. And some of it just
13:58
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that just appears to
14:00
Speaker 1: be some kind of a campaign document. Everyone sort of
14:03
Speaker 1: laughed at it like. Well, could he find some right
14:05
Speaker 1: wing judge to uphold it?
14:07
Speaker 3: Maybe.
14:07
Speaker 1: But does it get through all of the courts? Probably not.
14:10
Speaker 2: And do they even actually do it?
14:12
Speaker 3: Right.
14:12
Speaker 2: That's the question.
14:13
Speaker 5: Right.
14:13
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
14:14
Speaker 1: That's the other thing. Sometimes the threat comes, the memo comes,
14:17
Speaker 1: and then there's just no follow up because all they
14:18
Speaker 1: want is the news cycle for that day. So we
14:22
Speaker 1: should also talk about the mini strokes. New York Times
14:25
Speaker 1: reporter Michael Schmidt has a new book where he writes
14:27
Speaker 1: that when Trump took an unannounced visit to Walter Reed
14:29
Speaker 1: in 2019, Mike Pence was told, quote, The president responded
14:33
Speaker 1: by tweeting, quote, Never happened to this candidate.
14:35
Speaker 2: Fake news.
14:55
Speaker 1: Trump then repeated the same denial, unprompted, multiple times throughout
14:59
Speaker 1: the day, until the White House physician put out a
15:01
Speaker 1: statement also denying that Trump suffered a series of mini-strokes,
15:04
Speaker 1: an assertion that wasn't made in Schmidt's book or reported
15:08
Speaker 1: by any reputable news outlets. Where do you think this
15:11
Speaker 1: came from? Like, what the hell is going on with him?
15:13
Speaker 1: Why volunteer the mini-strokes?
15:17
Speaker 2: I mean, he's clearly... To put some context, as you mentioned,
15:23
Speaker 2: in November of last year, which was approximately 10,000 years ago,
15:28
Speaker 2: Trump made this mysterious unannounced visit to Walter Reed. It
15:32
Speaker 2: happened somewhat suddenly. There have been rumors spreading about what
15:36
Speaker 2: it meant for a very long time. And that's a
15:39
Speaker 2: pretty significant thing for the president to seek medical treatment
15:43
Speaker 2: outside of his normal physical, outside of the White House,
15:46
Speaker 2: because you can do almost everything short of surgery and
15:50
Speaker 2: I think like x-rays at the White House because there
15:53
Speaker 2: was a full medical operation there. And so if you
15:55
Speaker 2: have to go to Walter Reed, it suggests something potentially serious.
16:00
Speaker 2: It is like the most Trump thing, which is to
16:02
Speaker 2: be like, hey, do you hear this damaging thing that
16:05
Speaker 2: only a few people know? I am going to deny
16:08
Speaker 2: it from the rooftops to ensure that everyone knows in
16:11
Speaker 2: the most offensive, Definitely doth protest too much sort of
16:15
Speaker 2: way to make sure that everyone possibly knows it. And it,
16:19
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, Mike Schmidt's a very good reporter.
16:21
Speaker 2: And the idea that Pence would have been instructed to take,
16:27
Speaker 2: to be prepared to take command of the government, which
16:31
Speaker 2: would be alarming on for many, many things, including the
16:33
Speaker 2: impending release of the live action Mulan movie is like
16:39
Speaker 2: a very real thing. But it's once again, like everything
16:43
Speaker 2: else here, it's Trump heading to what was supposed to
16:46
Speaker 2: be a very important day for his campaign, just stomping
16:48
Speaker 2: all over his own message out of moronic defensiveness.
16:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, to say the least, and not to
16:55
Speaker 1: keep going here, but I think it's also important to
16:58
Speaker 1: note that the president may have committed a felony yesterday
17:00
Speaker 1: when he encouraged his supporters to break the law by
17:03
Speaker 1: voting twice. Um, after we got past many strokes and
17:07
Speaker 1: air Tifa, we got this from North Carolina. Here's a clip.
17:10
Speaker 3: 600,000 people could vote by absentee in this state.
17:15
Speaker 5: Are you confident in that system?
17:17
Speaker 4: They'll go out and they'll vote and they're going to
17:19
Speaker 4: have to go and check their vote by going to
17:20
Speaker 4: the bowl and voting that way. Because, uh, if it,
17:23
Speaker 4: if it, uh, tabulates and they won't be able to
17:25
Speaker 4: do that. So let them send it in and let
17:29
Speaker 4: them go vote. And if their system's as good as
17:32
Speaker 4: they say it is, then obviously they won't be able
17:34
Speaker 4: to vote. If it isn't tabulated, they'll be able to vote.
17:37
Speaker 4: So that's the way it is. And that's what they
17:39
Speaker 4: should do. I don't like the idea of these unsolicited votes.
17:43
Speaker 4: I never did. It leads to a lot of problems.
17:47
Speaker 4: They've got 11 problems already on very small contests. So
17:51
Speaker 4: I'm not happy about it. At the same time, we're
17:55
Speaker 4: in court on a lot of it. We're going to
17:56
Speaker 4: see if it can be stopped. But send in your ballots,
18:00
Speaker 4: send them in strong, whether it's solicited or unsolicited. The
18:04
Speaker 4: absentees are fine. We have to work to get them.
18:06
Speaker 4: You know, it means something. And you send them in,
18:09
Speaker 4: but you go to vote. And if they haven't counted it,
18:12
Speaker 4: you can vote. So that's the way I view it.
18:14
Speaker 1: You see, he wants people to attempt voter fraud in
18:18
Speaker 1: order to prove that voter fraud can happen. Doesn't that
18:22
Speaker 1: make sense to you?
18:23
Speaker 2: I mean, just to step back for a second. His
18:26
Speaker 2: message of the entire week and for the bulk of
18:30
Speaker 2: this campaign is law and order. And so for law
18:33
Speaker 2: and order week, his first move was to encourage people
18:36
Speaker 2: to commit crimes. It's like, what are we doing here?
18:43
Speaker 2: Like the North Carolina elections board had to put out
18:45
Speaker 2: a statement today telling people not to listen to their
18:47
Speaker 2: president who just encouraged them to commit crime.
18:52
Speaker 1: I mean– So it's all all of this is like
18:56
Speaker 1: very chaotic and horrific. But from a purely political standpoint,
19:01
Speaker 1: you know, I do have to say that the unhinged
19:03
Speaker 1: meltdown all week was far more damaging to him, I think,
19:08
Speaker 1: than what came out of the Republican convention. Like, isn't
19:11
Speaker 1: isn't this Trump's single biggest weakness in this campaign? He
19:15
Speaker 1: needs the race to be about Joe Biden, but he
19:18
Speaker 1: is incapable of making anything about something other than himself.
19:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And it's I will say that not
19:26
Speaker 2: to divulge private communications between us, but you the week
19:31
Speaker 2: of the convention, you were deeply concerned about Trump's lack
19:34
Speaker 2: of tweeting.
19:35
Speaker 1: Yes, I was. No, I'll say that. I thought he was. Well,
19:39
Speaker 1: I started the convention week feeling good because remember on Monday,
19:43
Speaker 1: he decided to drop in after he got officially nominated
19:47
Speaker 1: unannounced and give like a 50 minute rambling speech. And
19:50
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, whatever they have planned, we're going to
19:52
Speaker 1: get this all week. Random Trump appearances where he gives
19:55
Speaker 1: crazy speeches, he's going to tweet crazy shit. And after Monday,
19:59
Speaker 1: he didn't. He gave them four days basically of scripted
20:04
Speaker 1: convention messaging and He stayed on the prompter, gave this
20:07
Speaker 1: very boring, low energy speech, but it was on their message,
20:10
Speaker 1: barely ad libbed. And to the extent that they had
20:13
Speaker 1: any success out of their convention at all, it's because
20:16
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually focused that much on Trump. They were
20:19
Speaker 1: able to focus. Basically, their message was Democrats and Joe
20:22
Speaker 1: Biden are horrible. And here's why. And you're not that
20:26
Speaker 1: racist if you support Donald Trump, because there are other
20:30
Speaker 1: Americans of color who are supporting him. That was basically
20:33
Speaker 1: the message. There wasn't much humanizing of Donald Trump in
20:37
Speaker 1: that convention. There wasn't much about Donald Trump in that convention.
20:41
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I was a little, I was very
20:44
Speaker 1: concerned about that. But then I did think to myself, like,
20:48
Speaker 1: 24 hours after this thing's over, he's coming back.
20:50
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
20:53
Speaker 2: You were gleefully texting as soon as those tweets started
20:55
Speaker 2: firing off Saturday morning. I mean, it is interesting. And
20:59
Speaker 2: it wasn't– like we talked a lot about how scripted
21:02
Speaker 2: Trump– that convention was and how scripted Trump was when
21:06
Speaker 2: we talked about the convention last week. But what I
21:08
Speaker 2: think is more apparent now in hindsight is– and this
21:12
Speaker 2: is like ironic to say the least. But the– even
21:16
Speaker 2: though Trump made an appearance in some way, shape or
21:19
Speaker 2: form Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday– That four days of the convention
21:23
Speaker 2: was the least we've actually seen Trump in six years.
21:27
Speaker 2: He wasn't tweeting. He wasn't doing interviews. His speech was
21:31
Speaker 2: relatively scripted for Trump. To the extent we saw him,
21:35
Speaker 2: it was in these pretty low energy, definitely illegal interactions
21:40
Speaker 2: at a naturalization ceremony or pardons. But he wasn't being
21:43
Speaker 2: crazy Trump and he wasn't sort of dictating the news
21:47
Speaker 2: cycle the way he normally does. This is the– Inverse
21:52
Speaker 2: of what has benefited Trump throughout his time in politics,
21:56
Speaker 2: which is– we get frustrated about this all the time,
21:58
Speaker 2: which is at the exact moment when we were about
22:01
Speaker 2: to be able to convince the public to care about
22:04
Speaker 2: a crime or a controversy or a policy, something more
22:09
Speaker 2: outrageous happens and knocks it out of the news cycle.
22:11
Speaker 2: And so we're just on this constant conveyor belt of crazy.
22:14
Speaker 2: But that also was preventing him from driving a message
22:16
Speaker 2: about Joe Biden because every time he could possibly make
22:19
Speaker 2: any progress, he gets in his own way and brings
22:22
Speaker 2: the focus back to himself. So the thing that has
22:26
Speaker 2: preserved him to whatever extent he's been preserved for the
22:29
Speaker 2: last many years is now his undoing when it comes
22:32
Speaker 2: to this campaign.
22:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
22:34
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we'll talk about all the polling in
22:36
Speaker 1: a second. I'm sure there are many Republican consultants– some
22:42
Speaker 1: of them who work for the Trump campaign, many of them,
22:44
Speaker 1: who could make a more effective argument against Joe Biden,
22:48
Speaker 1: even on issues of crime and policing and looting, than
22:54
Speaker 1: Trump is doing right now. I could make a better case.
22:57
Speaker 2: Don't. Don't do that.
22:59
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it here. I've thought about
23:01
Speaker 1: it in my mind, but I'm not going to say
23:02
Speaker 1: it here. Most people who work in politics could make
23:06
Speaker 1: a more effective case. Trump is incapable of doing so
23:09
Speaker 1: because he has no disciplines. And it sort of reminded
23:13
Speaker 1: me of at the beginning of the pandemic when we
23:17
Speaker 1: got a lot, we got a whole round of, you know,
23:19
Speaker 1: new tone stories because Trump at the very beginning of
23:23
Speaker 1: the pandemic seemed a little more serious. He seemed a
23:25
Speaker 1: touch more disciplined. I'm not talking for long. I'm like
23:27
Speaker 1: the first week maybe. And he did those press conferences.
23:31
Speaker 1: And that's when the press conferences were like very heavy
23:34
Speaker 1: on Fauci and Birx and a lot of the experts
23:37
Speaker 1: and Trump sort of stayed back. And it lasted like
23:40
Speaker 1: a week, right, before he was like telling everyone to
23:42
Speaker 1: go inject bleach and all that good stuff. But that
23:46
Speaker 1: and his poll numbers, there was a rally around the president.
23:49
Speaker 1: In fact, his poll numbers improved. And then once again,
23:51
Speaker 1: he ruined it because he can't make anything about something
23:55
Speaker 1: other than himself. It had to be about Trump and
23:57
Speaker 1: his ratings and his successes, imaginary and all that kind
24:02
Speaker 1: of stuff. Like it's just and I think that's going
24:04
Speaker 1: to be a problem for him in these last two
24:07
Speaker 1: months as he really needs to make the race about
24:10
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, but can't seem to do it. So let's
24:21
Speaker 1: talk about how Joe Biden is responding. A week after
24:25
Speaker 1: George Packer and a number of anxious Democrats urged Biden
24:27
Speaker 1: to go to Kenosha in order to avoid more political damage.
24:31
Speaker 1: He's there today on the heels of a new Fox
24:32
Speaker 1: News poll that shows him leading Donald Trump in the
24:35
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin by 50 to 42 percent. and preferred
24:38
Speaker 1: on the issue of criminal justice and policing by 47
24:41
Speaker 1: to 42%. This was just one poll of about a
24:44
Speaker 1: million on Wednesday that show Biden maintaining his lead over Trump.
24:48
Speaker 1: The 538 average has him up 7.3%, as of this recording,
24:53
Speaker 1: which is just about 1% lower than at the start
24:56
Speaker 1: of both conventions. In addition to Fox polls in Arizona
24:59
Speaker 1: that had Biden up 9% and North Carolina that had
25:02
Speaker 1: him up 10%, There was a Monmouth poll of Pennsylvania
25:04
Speaker 1: that had Biden's 13-point lead in July shrink to a
25:07
Speaker 1: four-point lead now. So that was the one sort of
25:10
Speaker 1: tighter poll from yesterday's batch. So everyone's been a little
25:15
Speaker 1: anxious since the convention, including the two of us. Certainly me,
25:20
Speaker 1: I'll admit it. Even, you know, even normally calm and
25:24
Speaker 1: rational observers like you and I every once in a while,
25:26
Speaker 1: you know, usually... very chill about everything. Now that you've
25:31
Speaker 1: seen all these polls, how do you feel overall?
25:37
Speaker 2: I guess if the question was, do I feel better, worse,
25:40
Speaker 2: or the same? I think I feel the same, which
25:44
Speaker 2: is Biden is in a good position, but we have
25:48
Speaker 2: a long way to go. And he is playing in
25:50
Speaker 2: a very tilted playing field because Electoral College spots Trump
25:55
Speaker 2: four to five points. And so Like I think you
25:57
Speaker 2: should– like as Democrats, we should feel good that the–
26:01
Speaker 2: like there are some big moments in the last month
26:03
Speaker 2: that Biden had to get over, right? Announcing your VP successfully,
26:07
Speaker 2: that's an important decision. That's one of the five moments
26:08
Speaker 2: that matter. He did that well. I think the Democratic
26:10
Speaker 2: convention did well. The Republican convention was an opportunity for
26:13
Speaker 2: Trump to potentially have some impact on– the race, and
26:19
Speaker 2: that did not happen. So we've passed some key moments.
26:22
Speaker 2: And every time you pass a key moment and Biden
26:23
Speaker 2: is still leading, I think that is good. But we
26:27
Speaker 2: say there are five moments that matter. But the debates
26:30
Speaker 2: matter so much more than anything else. Just as a
26:32
Speaker 2: point of perspective, like 25 to 30 million people watched
26:37
Speaker 2: the biggest nights of the convention, and 84 million people
26:40
Speaker 2: watched the first debate in 2016. That number could be
26:43
Speaker 2: much higher this time, given the fact that a large
26:46
Speaker 2: portion of the country's are not allowed to leave their
26:49
Speaker 2: homes on the night of the debate. So, uh, like there,
26:53
Speaker 2: there's a lot of, a lot of, uh, a lot
26:55
Speaker 2: of road to travel here.
26:58
Speaker 1: I made my reasons. I'm feeling good reasons. I'm worried list.
27:00
Speaker 1: Just thought I'd be really honest.
27:01
Speaker 2: Okay.
27:03
Speaker 1: So reasons I feel good. It's an incredibly steady race
27:06
Speaker 1: with very little movement in the polling averages. I mean,
27:09
Speaker 1: one of the steadier presidential races that we have seen, right?
27:13
Speaker 1: Like the, the margin is, has moved between like six
27:16
Speaker 1: and nine points for the first several months, almost since
27:19
Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic. Impressions of Donald Trump have
27:23
Speaker 1: changed very little since the beginning of his presidency. And
27:27
Speaker 1: now he is an unpopular incumbent president with a disapproval
27:30
Speaker 1: rating over 50% with two months to go. Not a
27:33
Speaker 1: great place for an incumbent president to be in at all.
27:36
Speaker 1: Months of trying to define Joe Biden have not worked yet.
27:39
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's net approval is about even. which means he
27:42
Speaker 1: is way better liked than Hillary Clinton ever was in 2016.
27:46
Speaker 1: That's just according to every single poll. And he's also
27:50
Speaker 1: seen as trustworthy and honest. She was not throughout the
27:53
Speaker 1: 2016 race. Not saying whose fault that was. That's just
27:56
Speaker 1: the impressions that were that existed in that race. He's
27:59
Speaker 1: hovering around 50 percent with fewer undecided and third party voters,
28:03
Speaker 1: which is ultimately what sank Hillary. A lot of undecideds
28:06
Speaker 1: in that race right up until the end. A lot
28:07
Speaker 1: of third party voters. And then he has clear leads
28:11
Speaker 1: in five out of six battleground states that Trump won.
28:13
Speaker 1: And he's maintained a bigger lead among college educated white voters, seniors,
28:16
Speaker 1: independents and suburban voters than Hillary. That's all in the
28:19
Speaker 1: good column. Now, you and I were talking about this.
28:24
Speaker 1: I think the worry for me comes in. a lot,
28:27
Speaker 1: and you've been talking about this from the beginning, these
28:29
Speaker 1: battleground states, because now the battleground states, his leads are
28:33
Speaker 1: about getting to like three to four to five points,
28:37
Speaker 1: which means that they're like one average normal polling error
28:42
Speaker 1: away from losing that state, right? Like, I mean, you
28:46
Speaker 1: and I were talking about this yesterday, but like the
28:47
Speaker 1: thing that keeps me up at night is even in 2018,
28:51
Speaker 1: in the midterms, Democrats won the national popular vote, which
28:54
Speaker 1: is not really a thing in the midterms, but The
28:56
Speaker 1: national vote was eight points. And that translated into some
29:01
Speaker 1: swing states into enough for Democrats to win by a
29:04
Speaker 1: couple points. Arizona would be one of them. But, you know,
29:08
Speaker 1: Tony Evers won the Wisconsin governor's race by one point
29:12
Speaker 1: against Scott Walker, even though the national vote was eight
29:15
Speaker 1: points for Democrats. And Andrew Gillum and Bill Nelson, two
29:18
Speaker 1: very different candidates in Florida, lost by just under a point,
29:23
Speaker 1: even though Democrats won by eight points nationally. Should I
29:27
Speaker 1: be worried about that?
29:29
Speaker 2: Like, you know, my belief.
29:31
Speaker 1: I mean, I should be worried about everything.
29:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, worry about everything. And like Biden is in a very,
29:36
Speaker 2: very good place. He's probably in a better place than
29:38
Speaker 2: we thought he would be. on a whole host of
29:41
Speaker 2: ways of which you would look at the campaign.
29:43
Speaker 5: Right.
29:43
Speaker 2: So we should feel good about that, but we should
29:47
Speaker 2: worry about everything. Like, I don't want to scare the
29:52
Speaker 2: shit out of people. Like, like that is not what
29:54
Speaker 2: I want to do, but like, We should all be worried,
29:57
Speaker 2: and we should embrace that fear and channel it into action, right?
30:03
Speaker 2: Becoming a poll worker, Votes Save America, Votes Save All
30:05
Speaker 2: of those things is, you know, I just, like, I
30:10
Speaker 2: want to be careful. Like, you look at the polls.
30:12
Speaker 2: That Pennsylvania poll came out, which had it narrowed to four.
30:14
Speaker 2: And we're like, oh, shit, here it comes. And then
30:17
Speaker 2: all these other polls come out and make you feel better. Like,
30:20
Speaker 2: you don't have to, don't worry about feeling better right now, right?
30:24
Speaker 3: Right.
30:24
Speaker 2: Worry about feeling better when Donald Trump has lost, right?
30:29
Speaker 2: Like that, like, I don't want to unskew any polls.
30:32
Speaker 2: I don't tell anyone not to wet the bed. I
30:33
Speaker 2: don't want to tell anyone don't worry. I don't want
30:35
Speaker 2: to give you like, I think we're trying very hard
30:38
Speaker 2: to present an accurate picture of the race. So we're
30:42
Speaker 2: not like trying to make people more scared than they
30:45
Speaker 2: should be or give people a, an incorrect impression of
30:48
Speaker 2: what's happening.
30:49
Speaker 1: I'm sure people ask like, why are you talking about
30:51
Speaker 1: the polls at all?
30:52
Speaker 3: Right?
30:52
Speaker 1: Like, We talk about the polls not because they should
30:54
Speaker 1: be a barometer necessarily for whether you should feel good
30:57
Speaker 1: or bad, though they are a decently accurate snapshot of
31:00
Speaker 1: the race at the moment, right? We should not think
31:03
Speaker 1: about them as predictive, but they're good. They tell you
31:05
Speaker 1: where the race is now. And I think they can
31:07
Speaker 1: give you guidance about what voters are important to talk to,
31:11
Speaker 1: what messages work, the issue environment. I think there's a
31:13
Speaker 1: lot we can learn from hearing from people in polls
31:17
Speaker 1: and focus groups. I always have. And I do think,
31:21
Speaker 1: for example... The tightening in the race, even though it's
31:26
Speaker 1: basically been a point, not much at all, has come
31:29
Speaker 1: from non-college educated white voters coming back to Trump just
31:35
Speaker 1: a little bit. Now, it's not enough to really narrow
31:39
Speaker 1: the race significantly, but we know that one, They are
31:43
Speaker 1: overrepresented in Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. And two, Biden
31:49
Speaker 1: can't afford too much erosion. He certainly can't afford to
31:53
Speaker 1: be as low as Hillary was with those or lower
31:56
Speaker 1: than Hillary was with that cohort of voters. And so
31:59
Speaker 1: like non-college educated white voters are something to think about
32:03
Speaker 1: in the last couple of months. The other thing to
32:05
Speaker 1: think about is he is running behind Hillary slightly among
32:08
Speaker 1: black voters, according to the polls, and a little bit
32:11
Speaker 1: more among Latino voters. And so and that's not turnout
32:16
Speaker 1: in these polls. That's margin. That means slightly more black
32:19
Speaker 1: voters in the polls say they're voting for Donald Trump
32:21
Speaker 1: than they did in 16. And more Latino voters are
32:25
Speaker 1: saying that as well. And so as the Biden campaign
32:28
Speaker 1: thinks about the next couple of months, as we all
32:29
Speaker 1: are talking to voters and trying to get out the vote,
32:32
Speaker 1: those are two groups of voters that we should be
32:35
Speaker 1: thinking about, both non-college whites and black and Latino voters.
32:40
Speaker 1: Does that seem right to you?
32:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. There is something that makes me
32:43
Speaker 2: very nervous about the fact that right now Biden's victory
32:47
Speaker 2: depends on voters who are not traditional Democrats because he's
32:50
Speaker 2: overperforming with independents and Republicans and underperforming with traditional Democratic
32:56
Speaker 2: base voters. And so that's concerning because the voters who
33:00
Speaker 2: would be first to leave would be the ones who
33:02
Speaker 2: have a longer history of voting for Republicans in their life.
33:06
Speaker 2: But The other thing I think is just sort of
33:08
Speaker 2: interesting in these polls, which I think is a positive actually,
33:11
Speaker 2: which is one of the big problems we had in
33:15
Speaker 2: 2016 was complacency. Most voters in both parties thought Hillary
33:19
Speaker 2: Clinton was going to win. And I think that actually
33:20
Speaker 2: had some impact in the result because it caused some
33:24
Speaker 2: people to stay home because why would you go if
33:27
Speaker 2: you were sure Hillary was going to win? And it
33:29
Speaker 2: gave some other people who were– didn't love Hillary, but
33:34
Speaker 2: did not like Trump, a permission structure to vote for
33:36
Speaker 2: Gary Johnson, right? Who was not a compelling individual who
33:40
Speaker 2: should have gotten 100,000 votes in swing states. It's just
33:43
Speaker 2: that people wanted to not vote for Trump, but it
33:46
Speaker 2: was like people felt like they could give a protest vote.
33:48
Speaker 2: But now people still in most polling overwhelmingly think Trump
33:51
Speaker 2: is still going to win. I think that's positive. And
33:53
Speaker 2: I don't want to do anything to change that because
33:56
Speaker 2: I think we should be worried up until the moment.
34:01
Speaker 2: We don't have to be worried anymore.
34:04
Speaker 5: Yeah.
34:04
Speaker 1: And look, the other thing, people, that should get you
34:07
Speaker 1: working and participating in this election is that as much
34:11
Speaker 1: as demographics and demographic groups can tell us about who
34:14
Speaker 1: has what support and where the election is going to go,
34:16
Speaker 1: demographics aren't destiny. I just mentioned how Tony Evers won
34:21
Speaker 1: by a point in Wisconsin in 2018 in that same election.
34:24
Speaker 1: Tammy Baldwin, a progressive Medicare for all supporting lesbian senator,
34:31
Speaker 1: won by 11 points. Which means that in Wisconsin in
34:36
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, there was a significant cohort of voters who
34:40
Speaker 1: voted for Tammy Baldwin and Scott Walker.
34:44
Speaker 3: Right.
34:45
Speaker 1: Like that is there are people like voters are weird.
34:48
Speaker 1: They are complicated. They think different things. Same thing. Pennsylvania, which,
34:53
Speaker 1: you know, seems closer in the polling now. Bob Casey
34:56
Speaker 1: and Tom Wolfe, senator and governor of Pennsylvania, Democratic candidates
34:59
Speaker 1: won by double digits in twenty eighteen. but Donald Trump
35:02
Speaker 1: won it in 2016. And now it's, you know, for
35:06
Speaker 1: about average of four points right now in the polls. So, um,
35:10
Speaker 1: there are voters who can be persuaded. It is not
35:12
Speaker 1: all turnout. And it's important to realize that, you know,
35:16
Speaker 1: people have complicated views on politics and you can be
35:18
Speaker 1: a Baldwin Walker voter, which is fucking nuts, but it happens.
35:21
Speaker 1: And so it is very important to work to persuade
35:25
Speaker 1: every single voter that you can, because so many of
35:28
Speaker 1: these states are up for grabs. Um, So you mentioned
35:31
Speaker 1: the debates. We have moderators now. They were announced yesterday.
35:36
Speaker 1: Chris Wallace on September 29th. Susan Page from USA Today
35:40
Speaker 1: does the VP debate on October 7th. Steve Scully from
35:43
Speaker 1: C-SPAN does the October 15th debate. And NBC's Kristen Welker
35:47
Speaker 1: moderates the final debate on October 22nd. And then Election
35:51
Speaker 1: Day is November 3rd. What do you think of the
35:55
Speaker 1: moderators and how important are these debates in comparison with
35:59
Speaker 1: all the other big moments? Obviously, so many more people
36:02
Speaker 1: watch them, as you mentioned. In a race like this,
36:06
Speaker 1: how much can they shift the race, do you think?
36:09
Speaker 2: I mean, the moderators seem good. It's very hard. Being
36:16
Speaker 2: a good reporter or a good anchor, even a very
36:19
Speaker 2: good interviewer, does not necessarily... mean you're going to be
36:23
Speaker 2: a very good debate moderator.
36:25
Speaker 5: Right.
36:25
Speaker 2: Like they're very, very different skills. And so these are
36:29
Speaker 2: all people who are good at various different parts of
36:32
Speaker 2: their jobs. Like Chris Wallace, obviously is a, someone who
36:35
Speaker 2: has proven himself to be a very aggressive, uh, interviewer, um,
36:38
Speaker 2: with Trump and with others. Uh, Kristen Welker is someone
36:41
Speaker 2: we know quite well from the White House where she
36:43
Speaker 2: covered president Obama, you know, is very, very good reporter. Um,
36:47
Speaker 2: Steve Scully has been working at C-SPAN for a very
36:49
Speaker 2: long time. Susan Page has covered politics with as much
36:52
Speaker 2: sophistication and savvy as anyone. So there's reason to believe
36:56
Speaker 2: they'll be good, but we obviously, we've seen good reporters
36:59
Speaker 2: be terrible debate moderators and vice versa. So it will
37:03
Speaker 2: be interesting to see. And the question will ultimately be,
37:05
Speaker 2: are they willing to challenge the candidates when they make
37:10
Speaker 2: factual misstatements, which is something that does not happen often
37:13
Speaker 2: enough in debates. In fact, you can almost count it
37:15
Speaker 2: on one finger. Benghazi, Candy Crowley, Romney 2012. The holy
37:21
Speaker 2: time that happened in history. I mean, but the debates
37:25
Speaker 2: are incredibly important, right? Like this, like we just went
37:27
Speaker 2: through this whole polling thing with a national polling average of,
37:30
Speaker 2: would you say it was 7.3?
37:32
Speaker 1: 7.3, yeah.
37:33
Speaker 3: 7.3.
37:33
Speaker 2: Well, 7.3 polling is three points away from a time
37:38
Speaker 2: when we should be very worried that Joe Biden will
37:41
Speaker 2: win the popular vote but lose electoral college. So it's
37:43
Speaker 2: like these things can move pretty quickly. And Conventions usually
37:46
Speaker 2: are almost entirely watched by partisans who are watching either
37:48
Speaker 2: in admiration or hatred. And the debates are watched by
37:52
Speaker 2: a lot of people who have not yet decided who
37:54
Speaker 2: to vote. Like 84 million people is half the overall
37:57
Speaker 2: electorate of 2016. And so it's a lot of people.
38:01
Speaker 1: And look, there are not as many undecideds this time
38:04
Speaker 1: as there were in 2016, but that's like the whole race.
38:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:09
Speaker 1: So, and like you said, if they haven't been tuning in,
38:12
Speaker 1: undecideds tune in late. Like you said, they don't watch conventions.
38:15
Speaker 1: They don't watch a lot of ads. They don't pay
38:16
Speaker 1: a lot of attention to the news. But if they
38:18
Speaker 1: are tuning into these debates, it may be they're sort
38:21
Speaker 1: of the one thing that helps them decide in those
38:24
Speaker 1: final weeks. So they are pretty important. One problem Joe
38:27
Speaker 1: Biden does not have is money. On Wednesday, his campaign
38:30
Speaker 1: announced that Biden and the DNC raised $ 364. 5 million just
38:32
Speaker 1: in August. the most raised by a presidential candidate in
38:39
Speaker 1: a single month ever. Why do you think Biden raised
38:43
Speaker 1: this much? How surprised were you by that number? I
38:46
Speaker 1: was blown away.
38:46
Speaker 2: I think it's primarily because we are two-time co-hosts of
38:51
Speaker 2: Joe Biden fundraisers.
38:52
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say it's because Crooked
38:56
Speaker 1: Media and Swing Left joined together to give a million dollars.
38:59
Speaker 1: A million of that was our.
39:02
Speaker 1: Unify or die fund right there.
39:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, think the difference between that $ 1 million
39:07
Speaker 2: is what put him over the top. So, yes.
39:08
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, do
39:13
Speaker 1: you think it's a measure of enthusiasm?
39:15
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. I mean, it's a different measure of
39:18
Speaker 2: enthusiasm than volunteer numbers, crowds. These are all relative measures,
39:24
Speaker 2: but it is more than twice what Hillary Clinton raised
39:28
Speaker 2: in the same period. in 2016. It is a giant deal.
39:32
Speaker 2: And it's just, if you go back to like four months,
39:38
Speaker 2: we were deeply concerned that Trump would be outspending Biden
39:42
Speaker 2: five to one down the stretch. I was involved with
39:44
Speaker 2: a bunch of different calls with a bunch of different
39:46
Speaker 2: people on the outside trying to figure out what you
39:49
Speaker 2: could do to help narrow that gap organically. Like what
39:54
Speaker 2: can we do to try to get people involved to
39:57
Speaker 2: make up, you know, in terms of social media or
39:59
Speaker 2: content creation or whatever that would try to narrow the
40:01
Speaker 2: gap that Biden was going to face. And now he
40:03
Speaker 2: is currently scheduled to outspend Trump combined television and digital
40:08
Speaker 2: by $ 15 million between now and election day. And that
40:11
Speaker 2: is a huge deal.
40:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
40:13
Speaker 1: I mean, they're up in Minnesota earlier than they thought
40:16
Speaker 1: they would be in Georgia and Texas. So they're playing
40:18
Speaker 1: both some defense, but a lot of offense. They're mostly
40:22
Speaker 1: in Trump states. Just today, there's a 60 second ad
40:26
Speaker 1: they're running in all the battlegrounds about Biden's COVID plan
40:29
Speaker 1: that is just taken right from his convention speech, which
40:32
Speaker 1: is interesting. And then a 30 second ad about how
40:34
Speaker 1: Trump's plan, his stupid payroll tax plan would leave the
40:38
Speaker 1: Social Security trust fund depleted. So Trump's cutting Social Security.
40:42
Speaker 1: It did, I was tweeting about this, like it reminded
40:45
Speaker 1: me a little bit of 2018 when, when the media
40:48
Speaker 1: coverage and Trump were focused on the caravan, but Democrats
40:51
Speaker 1: were like just running ads about health care all the time.
40:54
Speaker 1: And I do wonder if in these final two months,
40:57
Speaker 1: you'll start seeing a lot more Biden ads about policy issues,
41:01
Speaker 1: about his economic plan, about his health care plan, hitting
41:04
Speaker 1: Trump on health care and the economy, because they're probably
41:08
Speaker 1: seeing in polls what we've seen in public polls and
41:10
Speaker 1: in private polling, which is, you know, Trump is still
41:13
Speaker 1: sort of you know, he's still even or slightly ahead
41:16
Speaker 1: of Biden on who can best handle the economy. And
41:19
Speaker 1: that's sort of like the last, his last defense. And
41:24
Speaker 1: if Biden whittles away at that, then he probably wins
41:27
Speaker 1: this thing. I, you know how good I feel when
41:30
Speaker 1: people do the things that I think they should do.
41:32
Speaker 2: So I feel great about this. Because, you know, like,
41:36
Speaker 2: we've talked about this many times, but You have to
41:39
Speaker 2: think about the speeches you give, the press events you
41:42
Speaker 2: have as a piece of content that you then find
41:46
Speaker 2: means by which to put it in front of the
41:48
Speaker 2: voters who do not watch news coverage on a regular basis.
41:50
Speaker 2: So we saw this with the convention speech. We saw
41:53
Speaker 2: this with Biden's speech in Pittsburgh about Trump's weakness and
41:58
Speaker 2: how Trump has fanned the flames of violence is that
42:00
Speaker 2: the Biden campaign is taking the things he's doing, which
42:03
Speaker 2: they're getting good press coverage by the measure of press coverage,
42:06
Speaker 2: but they know that the undecided swing voters we talk
42:09
Speaker 2: about are not consuming that coverage and they're paying to
42:12
Speaker 2: put it in front of them with television digital ads
42:14
Speaker 2: because they have the resources to do it. And I
42:16
Speaker 2: think it's very good. The thing that is interesting about
42:18
Speaker 2: your healthcare caravan parallel is the challenge for house Democrats
42:24
Speaker 2: in 2018 was all of the news coverage was on
42:27
Speaker 2: the caravan and whatever insane shit Trump was doing. And
42:30
Speaker 2: there was no possible way to get, um, press coverage
42:35
Speaker 2: on healthcare, because it was an issue that had sort of,
42:38
Speaker 2: you're telling people what had happened in the past and
42:40
Speaker 2: what might happen in the future. That was not something
42:41
Speaker 2: that's happening right now. The combination of Biden's paid advertising
42:45
Speaker 2: on COVID and the 24-7 news coverage about COVID together
42:51
Speaker 2: is a very dominating thing. And it allows them to
42:54
Speaker 2: flood the zone and make sure the focus stays on
42:57
Speaker 2: the most important issue to the American people.
43:00
Speaker 1: Well, as you say, the one part we left out
43:02
Speaker 1: of our polling discussion is probably the most useful part
43:05
Speaker 1: of all this polling, which is it gives you a
43:06
Speaker 1: picture of not just the horse race, but the issue environment.
43:10
Speaker 1: And in the latest Navigator poll, 61% of Americans say
43:15
Speaker 1: the pandemic is the most important issue to focus on.
43:18
Speaker 1: 48% said jobs and economy. Race relations is at 23%.
43:22
Speaker 1: Violent crime, bottom of the list with just 18%. So again,
43:28
Speaker 1: after this whole discussion about sort of crime and law
43:31
Speaker 1: and order and all this bullshit you know there was
43:34
Speaker 1: a drop in support for black lives matter and for
43:37
Speaker 1: protests in general mainly among whites and especially republican whites
43:41
Speaker 1: but they are still popular overall and no one trusts
43:45
Speaker 1: trump on any of these issues whether it's race relations
43:48
Speaker 1: obviously policing crime like joe biden is still leading on
43:54
Speaker 1: this you gov asked the question um do you think
43:57
Speaker 1: violence at these protests will get worse or better if
44:00
Speaker 1: each candidate wins? 56% of Americans say violence happening at
44:04
Speaker 1: protests will get worse if Trump wins, including 54% of independents.
44:08
Speaker 1: And only 23% say that about Biden at the Quinnipiac poll.
44:11
Speaker 1: 50% of people say Trump makes them feel less safe,
44:14
Speaker 1: only 35% safer. 42% say Biden makes them feel more safe,
44:18
Speaker 1: 40% less safe. So it does seem like the Trump
44:22
Speaker 1: campaign and many pundits in the media have sort of
44:25
Speaker 1: misjudged the effect of these protests on this specific presidential
44:31
Speaker 1: race between these two specific men?
44:34
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it is the fatal flaw of a
44:37
Speaker 2: strategy that relies on convincing Americans they won't be safe
44:40
Speaker 2: in Joe Biden's America when a thousand Americans are dying
44:44
Speaker 2: every single day in Donald Trump's America. And I thought
44:47
Speaker 2: NBC News and their first read newsletter put it right
44:51
Speaker 2: as they went through some of these polling results, which is,
44:53
Speaker 2: law and order is a better issue for Trump than COVID,
44:58
Speaker 2: but it's also not a winning issue.
45:00
Speaker 3: Right.
45:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's, that's true. And that's, and that's his problem.
45:04
Speaker 1: And it also a relentless focus on that, on those
45:08
Speaker 1: issues when people still care so much and are so
45:11
Speaker 1: concerned about COVID is ultimately going to cost you. And again,
45:15
Speaker 1: it's not like Trump's message on crime is an effective, subtle,
45:20
Speaker 1: powerful message. It is fucking air Tifa, you know?
45:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.
45:25
Speaker 1: So one last question for you, because I noticed this
45:26
Speaker 1: news this morning. Facebook said that they're banning all political
45:31
Speaker 1: ads the week before the election. How do you feel
45:34
Speaker 1: about that?
45:36
Speaker 2: I have heard from some people who work in the
45:40
Speaker 2: digital advertising space for political organizations who are deeply concerned
45:43
Speaker 2: about this. My understanding is it's just new ads, and
45:46
Speaker 2: I think the goal is to ensure that these false
45:50
Speaker 2: or dangerous ads don't go up for long periods of
45:55
Speaker 2: time right before the election. Because as you know, Facebook's
45:57
Speaker 2: official policy is to let bad stuff go up, be
46:02
Speaker 2: yelled at about it for a long time, deny it's bad.
46:05
Speaker 2: And then eventually after it doesn't matter anymore, take it down.
46:07
Speaker 2: And so you need more than seven days to do
46:09
Speaker 2: that process. I think that there's a, what none of
46:13
Speaker 2: this gets at is a silly gigantic problem is that
46:18
Speaker 2: Facebook's bigger challenge for American democracy has nothing to do
46:21
Speaker 2: with paid advertising. Should they be fact-checking ads?
46:24
Speaker 5: Yes.
46:24
Speaker 2: The problem is that Facebook's algorithm is perverting American politics
46:28
Speaker 2: by promoting dangerous, inflammatory content. Just get on Kevin Roos'
46:35
Speaker 2: Twitter account, Facebook Top 10, where he goes through the
46:38
Speaker 2: top 10 most engaged pages every day. I think that
46:42
Speaker 2: this could ultimately, as I understand it, Facebook's decision could
46:46
Speaker 2: be problematic in a lot of ways, because it's something
46:49
Speaker 2: that is happening in a vacuum without addressing the larger problem.
46:52
Speaker 2: And it's actually tying the hands of Democrats more than
46:55
Speaker 2: it is preventing the same right wing pages and organizations
47:01
Speaker 2: that have engaged in misinformation on the platform for years now.
47:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it probably means that all of us need
47:07
Speaker 1: to do more to share positive content or negative content
47:10
Speaker 1: about Trump on Facebook, Because if we can't do paid
47:13
Speaker 1: advertising in that last week, we still have to combat
47:15
Speaker 1: the misinformation that's coming from right-wing media figures and media
47:19
Speaker 1: groups that will be all over Facebook if it's not
47:21
Speaker 1: paid advertising.
47:23
Speaker 2: There are people who are much smarter about this than me,
47:25
Speaker 2: but my recommendation would be two things. One is over-index
47:29
Speaker 2: on positive Biden content. There's enough negative Trump content out there.
47:35
Speaker 2: The second thing is what is really valuable is information
47:39
Speaker 2: on registration deadlines, vote by mail deadlines, all of those
47:43
Speaker 2: things to get that information out there. Ensure people see
47:46
Speaker 2: that in all of your platforms, right? Not just Facebook, Twitter,
47:50
Speaker 2: text your friends.
47:51
Speaker 1: VoteSaveAmerica.com. Go there. That's where one-stop shop for you guys.
47:54
Speaker 5: All right.
47:55
Speaker 1: When we come back, Dan talks to WNBA player, Renee Montgomery.
48:07
Speaker 2: Renee Montgomery is a WNBA champion player and activist and
48:10
Speaker 2: part of More Than a Vote. Renee, welcome to Pod
48:13
Speaker 2: Save America.
48:13
Speaker 5: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
48:16
Speaker 2: We're very excited to have you here. We've been very
48:18
Speaker 2: much looking forward to this conversation. You made a very
48:23
Speaker 2: bold and brave decision to take the season off to
48:26
Speaker 2: focus on racial justice. How is that going and what
48:29
Speaker 2: made you come to that decision?
48:32
Speaker 5: Well, you know, they still haven't arrested the cops that
48:36
Speaker 5: killed Breonna Taylor. So to give perspective of why I
48:39
Speaker 5: opted out, that's why, you know, it's that there needs
48:42
Speaker 5: to be some answers. There needs to be justice. And
48:44
Speaker 5: I was trying to figure out a way that I
48:45
Speaker 5: could help. You know, I don't know how to solve
48:47
Speaker 5: police brutality or to solve everything, but I just wanted
48:50
Speaker 5: to see if there was something I could do during
48:52
Speaker 5: this time period that the WNBA season is going on
48:55
Speaker 5: that I could figure out a way to help people.
48:56
Speaker 5: And just those string of tragedies, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd,
49:00
Speaker 5: Ahmaud Arbery, along with talking to my parents about things
49:03
Speaker 5: that they've went through, I just felt a strong desire
49:06
Speaker 5: to be a part of this.
49:09
Speaker 2: How have you been spending your time during this period?
49:14
Speaker 5: Oh, man, a lot of calls, a lot of conversations.
49:18
Speaker 5: I didn't know what I wanted to do at first.
49:19
Speaker 5: So I had to start educating myself basically you know
49:23
Speaker 5: there's prison reform there's health care reform there's education reform
49:27
Speaker 5: there's so many different areas that you could go into
49:30
Speaker 5: that that you could make a change so I decided
49:32
Speaker 5: to go into education reform and I've been planning out
49:35
Speaker 5: my initiatives I've been talking to my my mom who
49:38
Speaker 5: is a college professor for 30 years and just kind
49:40
Speaker 5: of figuring out like what's something practical that I can
49:43
Speaker 5: do now you know like a lot of the the
49:45
Speaker 5: solutions are going to be with a lot of time.
49:47
Speaker 5: It's going to take time to figure out the police system.
49:50
Speaker 5: We're not going to get an answer to things right now.
49:53
Speaker 5: But I think that we can have a positive impact
49:55
Speaker 5: right now. And that's what I've been doing, just figuring
49:57
Speaker 5: out my different initiatives.
49:59
Speaker 2: What was the reaction from the fans? Did you feel supported?
50:02
Speaker 2: Were they upset about it? How did that go?
50:05
Speaker 5: Man, I was so nervous. I was so nervous about that. Really,
50:10
Speaker 5: because I don't know if you guys recall, but Kyrie
50:12
Speaker 5: had a call with all the NBA players before the
50:14
Speaker 5: season started, and I was on that call. And I
50:17
Speaker 5: was just listening, and I was hearing– You know, the
50:21
Speaker 5: argument of why we should play, you know, don't opt
50:23
Speaker 5: out of the bubble because we need to do this.
50:25
Speaker 5: So I was listening and I was hearing that. And then,
50:28
Speaker 5: as you know, the call leaked and then the media
50:30
Speaker 5: got a hold of the idea and they weren't too
50:33
Speaker 5: happy with players thinking about opting out. So this was
50:36
Speaker 5: all going on before I opted out. And I'm like, oh, gosh,
50:40
Speaker 5: should I opt out? Should I say that I'm opting
50:42
Speaker 5: out for the reason I'm opting out or should I
50:44
Speaker 5: just be like for personal reasons, you know, like as
50:46
Speaker 5: an athlete, we can say for personal reasons. But as
50:49
Speaker 5: you guys know, I decided to just tell the truth
50:51
Speaker 5: and I had overwhelmingly positive response, which I was relieved
50:55
Speaker 5: to say the least.
50:57
Speaker 2: Last week, both the WNBA players and the NBA players
51:01
Speaker 2: went on strike in response to the shooting of Jacob Blake. Well,
51:05
Speaker 2: did you feel like that was a successful effort? And
51:07
Speaker 2: does it say anything about the growing activism among athletes?
51:11
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it was a success. You know, it was
51:13
Speaker 5: what everyone was talking about. You couldn't not talk about
51:16
Speaker 5: Jacob Blake because there was no, there was no sports
51:18
Speaker 5: leagues for NBA, WNBA, MLB, MLS. And then tennis came
51:22
Speaker 5: into the chat. So it was like, it was successful
51:26
Speaker 5: because the point is to bring awareness. We, we're not,
51:29
Speaker 5: we're not the government. So we can't make people arrest someone.
51:32
Speaker 5: We can't make someone do something, but we can bring
51:35
Speaker 5: light to it. So 100 percent, it was a success.
51:38
Speaker 5: And the players, I think, needed it. You know, they
51:40
Speaker 5: needed that mental time more than anything because they've been
51:43
Speaker 5: playing a lot of games in a short amount of
51:45
Speaker 5: time while dealing with what's going on in America.
51:49
Speaker 2: You know, throughout all of this, whether it's the call
51:52
Speaker 2: with that Kyrie had that you were on or the
51:55
Speaker 2: discussion about how the leagues were going to respond to this.
51:59
Speaker 2: it is interesting that society expects athletes to engage in
52:04
Speaker 2: activism in ways that they don't expect others, right? You're
52:07
Speaker 2: not the same way. They're saying, you know, should these
52:09
Speaker 2: players opt out? Should they not do this in response
52:12
Speaker 2: to George Floyd or Jacob Blake or Brianna Taylor or
52:15
Speaker 2: anything else? No one is asking, or at least not
52:18
Speaker 2: the same volume asking, musicians, actors, business leaders do the
52:22
Speaker 2: same thing. Why do you think it is that the
52:26
Speaker 2: public expects that of athletes, but not necessarily other prominent
52:29
Speaker 2: people in society?
52:30
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great question. And no one's asked me
52:33
Speaker 5: that before. And I say that because I've done a
52:35
Speaker 5: lot of interviews. I think the reason is because athletes,
52:40
Speaker 5: as you noticed, we get pushed into the role model phase. Like,
52:44
Speaker 5: you know, it's not athlete. We don't say, all right,
52:47
Speaker 5: I'm going to UConn. So I declare that I will
52:49
Speaker 5: be your role model. Like we don't announce that to people.
52:52
Speaker 5: We don't say that we want to be your kid's
52:54
Speaker 5: role model, but yet people look at athletes to be
52:56
Speaker 5: role models. And I think the reason they do that
52:58
Speaker 5: is because of the skill set and the traits, the
53:00
Speaker 5: characteristics that athletes have, you know, to be a successful athlete,
53:04
Speaker 5: you have to have a certain level of discipline. You
53:06
Speaker 5: have to have a certain level of, unselfishness to work
53:08
Speaker 5: with a team and to figure out those. So people
53:10
Speaker 5: look at those things and they see, all right, these
53:13
Speaker 5: people should be people that my kids should look up to.
53:15
Speaker 5: And so in turn, when you have things like this happen,
53:18
Speaker 5: I think that people look to us because they understand
53:21
Speaker 5: that we have these certain traits that they put in
53:23
Speaker 5: role models. They want their role models to have, I
53:25
Speaker 5: should say.
53:28
Speaker 2: I think it is one of the things that was interesting.
53:29
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of polling in recent weeks and
53:33
Speaker 2: Some of it looked at the response to the athletes
53:37
Speaker 2: going on strike, and it was overwhelmingly supported by the public,
53:42
Speaker 2: including by bipartisan. This is not simply a partisan thing.
53:46
Speaker 2: Do you see that as a positive sign of progress
53:50
Speaker 2: in the four years? It's been four years since Colin
53:52
Speaker 2: Kaepernick first took a knee and sort of how the
53:56
Speaker 2: response to that has changed.
53:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.
53:58
Speaker 5: So let's even rewind it. So Colin Kaepernick took a
54:00
Speaker 5: knee in 2016 during the NFL season. 2016, before that,
54:05
Speaker 5: in the WNBA season, my team with the Minnesota Lynx,
54:08
Speaker 5: we wore shirts that said, change starts with us. We
54:10
Speaker 5: had Black Lives Matter on there. We also had a
54:12
Speaker 5: police shield on the back, just so the cops and
54:14
Speaker 5: everyone could understand that it's not about America. We're not
54:17
Speaker 5: protesting America. We're not protesting the cops. We're not protesting anyone.
54:21
Speaker 5: We're protesting how minorities are treated in America. We even
54:24
Speaker 5: had a press conference to tell people that and it
54:26
Speaker 5: did not go well. You know, the Minnesota Police Department
54:29
Speaker 5: walked out on us and people couldn't even understand what
54:32
Speaker 5: we meant by like, this is important. Now you fast
54:34
Speaker 5: forward it to 2020 and you have whole leagues that
54:38
Speaker 5: have Black Lives Matter on their shirts. There's such an
54:41
Speaker 5: understanding of what the struggle is now. So for me,
54:46
Speaker 5: you can't not have optimism when people are starting to
54:49
Speaker 5: see what before was talked about like a myth almost.
54:52
Speaker 5: You know, people were like police brutality. Oh, my goodness.
54:55
Speaker 5: And people would say this is an old problem. This,
54:57
Speaker 5: you know, people really didn't see that this is still
55:00
Speaker 5: a problem today. So I'm very optimistic that now everyone
55:04
Speaker 5: understands there's a problem. So now we can go about
55:06
Speaker 5: fixing it.
55:08
Speaker 2: You have started a couple of initiatives on your own.
55:12
Speaker 2: Moment equals momentum in Gen Z and me. What are
55:14
Speaker 2: you trying to accomplish with this?
55:15
Speaker 5: Yeah. So moments equal momentum. The whole point of doing
55:19
Speaker 5: it is when I opted out, you know, I opted
55:22
Speaker 5: out via tweet, social media.
55:24
Speaker 2: That's how we do these things these days.
55:26
Speaker 5: That's how we do it. So I opted out on
55:29
Speaker 5: Twitter and, you know, I said that moments equal momentum
55:33
Speaker 5: and let's keep it going. Like that was what my
55:35
Speaker 5: whole point of opting out was that right now there's
55:37
Speaker 5: a lot of momentum around the movement that we're not
55:40
Speaker 5: even going to call a movement anymore. As LeBron James said,
55:42
Speaker 5: this is the new normal. This is a lifestyle movement.
55:44
Speaker 5: But I wanted people to see that I had no
55:47
Speaker 5: idea what I was going to do. You can go
55:49
Speaker 5: back and look at my interviews the day I opted out,
55:52
Speaker 5: the day after I opted out, and everybody's like, what
55:54
Speaker 5: are you going to do? And I was like, no clue.
55:56
Speaker 5: But the whole point was you don't have to have
55:58
Speaker 5: a plan to do something. I think everybody waits for
56:01
Speaker 5: a specific moment, a specific plan, a This is the
56:04
Speaker 5: time to do it. I just opted out. I didn't
56:07
Speaker 5: have to opt out until June 25th. I opted out
56:09
Speaker 5: on June 18th just because I'm like, yo, I'm opting out.
56:12
Speaker 5: This is what I want to do. So what I'm
56:14
Speaker 5: trying to accomplish is that people understand that your platform,
56:17
Speaker 5: what you feel, do it. Moments equal momentum. This moment
56:21
Speaker 5: can turn into a whole movement and momentum. And then
56:24
Speaker 5: with Gen Z and me, I think this younger generation, people,
56:27
Speaker 5: we always talk about the young kids and how crazy
56:29
Speaker 5: they are and they're social media obsessed. But I've been
56:34
Speaker 5: talking to, I was talking to kids before just to
56:36
Speaker 5: pick their brains. And I'm like, yo, I got to
56:37
Speaker 5: start recording this because they know a lot that's going on.
56:40
Speaker 5: Like we assume these 13 year olds, 14 year olds,
56:42
Speaker 5: that they are almost oblivious. They know what's going on.
56:46
Speaker 5: Like they have opinions and they know what's going on.
56:48
Speaker 5: So I'll talk to them about it.
56:51
Speaker 2: The Atlanta Dream is named after Martin Luther King Jr.
56:53
Speaker 2: 's I Have a Dream speech. One of the owners
56:55
Speaker 2: of the Atlanta Dream is Kelly Loeffler, who is a
56:58
Speaker 2: senator from Georgia and is actively campaigning against Black Lives Matter.
57:02
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of frustration within the WNBA among
57:08
Speaker 2: the players and the fan base about an owner who
57:12
Speaker 2: stands directly opposed to what the majority of the players
57:14
Speaker 2: have been pushing for. What is your reaction to that?
57:17
Speaker 2: And what do you think the appropriate measures are to
57:19
Speaker 2: deal with an owner like that?
57:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it was an interesting dynamic because I
57:26
Speaker 5: knew I had had interactions with Kelly before she became
57:30
Speaker 5: Senator Loeffler. So whenever I first heard about the letter,
57:34
Speaker 5: that's why I penned the letter to her because I
57:37
Speaker 5: didn't understand like what was the problem, you know, like,
57:41
Speaker 5: and I know that she's opposing the Black Lives Matter organization,
57:44
Speaker 5: but everyone has already came out and said that that's
57:46
Speaker 5: not what we're supporting. You know, we're just talking about
57:48
Speaker 5: the civil rights movement that before there were hashtags, my parents,
57:52
Speaker 5: my mom was involved in a walkout. They didn't have
57:55
Speaker 5: a hashtag Black Lives Matter, but they were walking out
57:57
Speaker 5: because Black Lives Matter. So we've already made that clear
58:01
Speaker 5: what we're talking about. So I didn't understand what's the
58:03
Speaker 5: point to keep campaigning against something that no one's even,
58:06
Speaker 5: we're not even talking about that. So I, then I,
58:08
Speaker 5: you know, I understand, I understand how politics work and
58:11
Speaker 5: I get it. But for me, that was a dynamic
58:15
Speaker 5: that I didn't really, I didn't really get. And so
58:17
Speaker 5: I penned a letter just asking, like, you know, you
58:20
Speaker 5: do understand that if this was in the women's suffrage
58:23
Speaker 5: time and we were all trying to get the right
58:26
Speaker 5: to vote, me and you would be like besties. Cause
58:28
Speaker 5: we'd be like, yeah, these guys don't want to let
58:30
Speaker 5: the women vote. And we would have been a team,
58:32
Speaker 5: but now we always just find ways to separate ourselves.
58:34
Speaker 5: And I, And I'm not a fan of it, but
58:37
Speaker 5: I just would because everybody knows I'm like positive Patty.
58:40
Speaker 5: So I think that the world right now, we're all dividing.
58:43
Speaker 5: And I think we should be going the opposite way.
58:46
Speaker 2: You've talked about how your mother's activism inspired a lot
58:50
Speaker 2: of what you're doing. Can you talk a little about
58:51
Speaker 2: her and your personal history with politics and activism?
58:56
Speaker 5: Yeah. So, you know. For whatever reason, neither one of
59:00
Speaker 5: my parents had told me about things they dealt with
59:03
Speaker 5: growing up. That's a parent's plight in a sense of
59:06
Speaker 5: maybe they don't tell because they don't want to break
59:08
Speaker 5: my innocence. Maybe they don't tell me because. They don't
59:11
Speaker 5: think that it'll do anything positive for me. But whenever
59:15
Speaker 5: the protests were going on here in Atlanta, I was
59:19
Speaker 5: looking outside of my window and I was like, oh,
59:21
Speaker 5: my goodness. Like, should I evacuate? Like, what should I do?
59:23
Speaker 5: I'm talking to my parents and they're like, oh, no,
59:26
Speaker 5: don't worry. Like, this is not a harmful thing. They're
59:30
Speaker 5: just trying to have their voices heard. And I was like, well,
59:32
Speaker 5: that's interesting. You know, I didn't really understand the whole process.
59:35
Speaker 5: And so they my mom told me about how, first
59:38
Speaker 5: of all, she was in Detroit during the Detroit riots.
59:40
Speaker 5: She was really young then. But she also when she
59:43
Speaker 5: was living in West Virginia in high school, there was
59:46
Speaker 5: a daughter of a preacher and she was at a
59:48
Speaker 5: talent show at school. And the kid, the student, and
59:52
Speaker 5: it was a black student. She was singing a Baptist style.
59:55
Speaker 5: So you guys can imagine she was singing with a
59:57
Speaker 5: lot of passion and soul and the white students at
59:59
Speaker 5: the high school didn't like it. And they started throwing
1:00:01
Speaker 5: pennies at her. So the black students started standing up,
1:00:04
Speaker 5: looking around for the staff, the principal, someone to like, yo,
1:00:07
Speaker 5: what's going on? Like, why, why aren't you guys stopping this?
1:00:10
Speaker 5: And long story short, they didn't stop it. So my mom,
1:00:14
Speaker 5: as well as all the black students and some white students,
1:00:16
Speaker 5: they did a walkout to show the school that they're
1:00:18
Speaker 5: not going to accept that type of behavior because towards
1:00:21
Speaker 5: students of color. And so just hearing that, I'm like, wait,
1:00:24
Speaker 5: you're talking about the high school down the street? And
1:00:26
Speaker 5: so just different things, like just hearing that, I'm like, man,
1:00:30
Speaker 5: like my mom has been about this, like been trying
1:00:33
Speaker 5: to advance this. So I just felt like it was
1:00:35
Speaker 5: my turn.
1:00:37
Speaker 2: In addition to your own initiatives, you're also part of
1:00:41
Speaker 2: More Than a Vote. Can you talk a little bit
1:00:42
Speaker 2: about how you got involved with that and what you
1:00:44
Speaker 2: guys are trying to accomplish?
1:00:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, More Than a Vote was huge for me. You know,
1:00:48
Speaker 5: when I opted out again, I didn't know how people
1:00:50
Speaker 5: were going to take it. And then I didn't know
1:00:52
Speaker 5: where I was going to go. And about three or
1:00:54
Speaker 5: four days really shortly after I opted out, more than
1:00:58
Speaker 5: a vote team hit me up and asked me if
1:00:59
Speaker 5: I wanted to be a part. And I'm like, what?
1:01:01
Speaker 5: Of course. Like, are you kidding me? Like, yes, I'm
1:01:04
Speaker 5: in there. And the reason I say that they helped
1:01:06
Speaker 5: me out so much is because they kind of showed
1:01:08
Speaker 5: me different ways to go about things, how they're going
1:01:11
Speaker 5: about their voting campaign, and they're trying to fight voter suppression.
1:01:15
Speaker 5: And me being in Atlanta, we're a repeat offender here,
1:01:18
Speaker 5: as everyone knows. So I'm like, count me in. I'm
1:01:21
Speaker 5: trying to do some stuff in Atlanta. So they gave
1:01:24
Speaker 5: me this sense of pride about, okay, I can see
1:01:26
Speaker 5: how we can make a change. And then as everyone knows,
1:01:29
Speaker 5: State Farm Arena ended up getting opened up. And that
1:01:33
Speaker 5: was huge for me because I really felt like, wow,
1:01:35
Speaker 5: I'm like a part of something that's really changing things.
1:01:37
Speaker 5: Because I know that the lines were nine plus hours
1:01:40
Speaker 5: some places to vote. People can't spend a whole day
1:01:43
Speaker 5: trying to vote. Like that's not even realistic to ask
1:01:45
Speaker 5: people to not go to work, to not pick up
1:01:48
Speaker 5: their kids. And when I say this, you have to
1:01:50
Speaker 5: think of the single moms that that that's, they're the
1:01:52
Speaker 5: only ones that can do that. So nine hours to
1:01:54
Speaker 5: vote unacceptable. And I was just, I was excited that
1:01:57
Speaker 5: someone like LeBron James first, like wanted me to be
1:02:00
Speaker 5: a part of his group. And then the things he's
1:02:02
Speaker 5: doing on the level he's doing, of course, I want
1:02:04
Speaker 5: to be a part.
1:02:05
Speaker 2: That's great. Uh, before I let you go, I wanted
1:02:07
Speaker 2: to ask you a question of personal privilege, uh, as
1:02:10
Speaker 2: a Georgetown alumni. Uh, but Legendary Georgetown basketball coach John
1:02:15
Speaker 2: Thompson passed away this week. You called him a legend
1:02:19
Speaker 2: in a tweet, and he is in many ways a
1:02:21
Speaker 2: reminder that activism on issues of racial justice in sports
1:02:28
Speaker 2: is not something that just began in recent years. What
1:02:31
Speaker 2: do you see as the legacy of John Thompson and
1:02:34
Speaker 2: what he meant to you?
1:02:36
Speaker 5: So when I tweeted that, I tweeted about him being
1:02:38
Speaker 5: a legend, and a lot of non-students actually told me,
1:02:44
Speaker 5: like started tweeting me stories. Like one guy said, oh,
1:02:46
Speaker 5: I saw him walking through campus and I was telling
1:02:49
Speaker 5: him that I'm a fan. And he asked me, you know,
1:02:51
Speaker 5: how am I doing in school? So I say that
1:02:53
Speaker 5: to say that like people saw him as not just
1:02:56
Speaker 5: a coach, but like this, this father figure there, you know,
1:02:59
Speaker 5: he's talking to the students he's taught and Allen Iverson
1:03:02
Speaker 5: said he saved his life, you know? So speaking of
1:03:05
Speaker 5: the student, I mean, of the, the athletes, the athletes
1:03:08
Speaker 5: feel like he saved their lives. Not, not that he
1:03:10
Speaker 5: made them a better player, not that he helped them
1:03:13
Speaker 5: understand the game and basketball. They're talking about, he saved
1:03:15
Speaker 5: their lives. So when you start to hear statements like that,
1:03:18
Speaker 5: that's a strong statement, you know? And, and we all
1:03:21
Speaker 5: believe it, you know, it's not like we all were like, what?
1:03:23
Speaker 5: He saved your life. Now we all were like, yeah,
1:03:25
Speaker 5: I can see that because he brought in students, players
1:03:28
Speaker 5: that maybe their background, other schools might want to leave
1:03:31
Speaker 5: them alone. They might be known as a trouble kid.
1:03:33
Speaker 5: And he was like, just taking these players and treating
1:03:35
Speaker 5: them a certain way. And, and then in turn, they
1:03:38
Speaker 5: treated him a certain way back. And, and I don't know,
1:03:41
Speaker 5: like I, those kinds of coaches are the ones that
1:03:43
Speaker 5: you hear about quite often where they, they do take
1:03:46
Speaker 5: it personal. They don't just check in and check out
1:03:48
Speaker 5: like that's their job. They take their job personal. They,
1:03:51
Speaker 5: they care about the person and the player. So, He's
1:03:54
Speaker 5: a legend for the way that he coached, but he's
1:03:56
Speaker 5: also a legend for how he moved off the court.
1:04:00
Speaker 2: Renee, thank you so much for joining us on Positive America.
1:04:02
Speaker 2: Thank you for everything you're doing with more than a
1:04:06
Speaker 2: vote in all of your organizations. I think you are,
1:04:10
Speaker 2: even if you, as you say, you didn't volunteer for it,
1:04:12
Speaker 2: you're a very powerful role model to a lot of
1:04:13
Speaker 2: people in this country.
1:04:14
Speaker 5: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Dan.
1:04:20
Speaker 1: Thanks to Renee Montgomery for joining us today and everyone
1:04:23
Speaker 1: have a great weekend. We'll see you next week.
1:04:24
Speaker 2: Bye everyone.
1:04:28
Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
1:04:31
Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller.
1:04:35
Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
1:04:38
Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
1:04:44
Speaker 1: Caroline Reston, and Elisa Gutierrez for production support. And to
1:04:47
Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and
1:04:51
Speaker 1: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
1:04:54
Speaker 1: every week.