Latest / Identity at the Center / #230 - Quantum IAM with Teresa Wu and Olivier Nora of Idemia

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#230 - Quantum IAM with Teresa Wu and Olivier Nora of Idemia · Identity at the Center

0:05
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
0:11
AM, this is the go to podcast now your host Jim McDonald and
0:17
Jeff Steadman. Welcome to the Identity at the
0:22
Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
0:24
Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff.
0:26
How are you? Not so bad yourself.
0:28
I'm doing great. I have a question for you.
0:31
Did you know we have the greatest listeners ever?
0:35
Yes, I know that for a fact we do have the best listeners.
0:38
It is a guaranteed fact. So I wanted to call out.
0:41
I put out that message on LinkedIn about, hey, give us
0:44
show topics. I wanted to, you know, do a
0:47
shout out to Fred Patterson and the infamous Chris Power who I
0:52
love that guy. I'm so glad we met him.
0:54
And you should have seen the DM he sent me.
0:56
It took me like 1/2 an hour to read it, but I'm going to throw
1:00
out some of these topics for you and just, you know, first thing
1:04
that comes to mind. So from Fred it was he wanted to
1:07
talk about the importance of a data dictionary in terms of, you
1:12
know, you're rolling out a new I M system in your company, having
1:15
that data dictionary, what comes to mind?
1:19
I guess I need more information. Data dictionary, meaning you're
1:23
introducing new terms to the enterprise and people need to
1:25
know like when you say authentication or IAM, what does
1:30
that mean to the normal person? Or are we thinking something
1:32
like behind the scenes that is like a, I don't know, metadata
1:36
associated with data? I'm thinking that, yeah, usually
1:40
when I use that term data dictionary, I'm thinking in
1:42
terms of that back end. So you know, hey, the way we use
1:47
title or you know, department code or something like that is
1:53
common throughout the replication of that data.
1:57
So maybe it's starting an authoritative source like an HR
2:00
system going to your IGA system and then being replicated out,
2:04
or maybe replicated in reverse, but that there's a common
2:08
understanding of what business title means.
2:11
Yeah, I like that topic. I don't think we've actually
2:13
touched on that yet. It's sort of like that plumbing,
2:15
right, Goes on behind the scenes kind of it's just assume
2:18
sometimes that it's there. But anything that helps
2:21
organizations get a line and how is the data being used and are
2:26
we even sure it's being used in the appropriate areas?
2:27
It's probably a good idea, yeah. And also, you know, just what
2:30
came to mind. For me, it was like data
2:32
governance. It's not only writing that data
2:35
dictionary and throwing it out there and then we'll revisit it
2:37
in five years when it it's not even being used anymore, but how
2:41
do we keep it so that it's fresh?
2:43
How do we keep it so that as folks are making changes to
2:46
downstream systems, the impact of how they may be changing that
2:50
metadata. You know if they're swapping out
2:52
business system A with business system B, you know you're you're
2:56
potentially taking on a whole new data dictionary for that
3:00
application if you will. So I thought that was a great
3:04
topic that I really think we should find an expert to come on
3:07
the show and talk about. Another set of questions was
3:11
from Chris Power and the first one he threw out there is ITDR.
3:15
The real deal first thing you came to mind is like we've got a
3:18
couple shows coming up to talk about ITDR but you know it's
3:23
it's kind of burst onto the scene.
3:25
So is it the real deal? I I you know, the first thing
3:29
that came to mind for me was, you know, so are people actually
3:32
deploying this and using it in the real world?
3:34
Yeah, I mean, I think we've had a couple of conversations about
3:37
since the past two. I'm thinking back to like
3:38
Gartner last year where there was the talk about like what we
3:46
had a conversation with head covets from Silver Fort, for
3:48
example. Absolutely.
3:50
Yeah, we definitely have talked about you know what it can do,
3:53
what it what it does. I think when Chris sessions that
3:57
the real deal is like are people actually putting this into
4:01
effect in their environments, You know enterprises, like where
4:05
is it on the hype cycle if you will?
4:07
Yeah, so that was a good one. You know he brought up the our
4:11
favorite topic roles. Then he made a comment that
4:15
Nirvana is 1 role per identity. In other words like that's been
4:18
the mantra. I know personally I haven't
4:21
been. That has not been my mantra
4:23
because I've I think definitely there is a legacy there where
4:28
like I thought that at one time that was the goal as well, but I
4:32
no longer think that. I haven't thought that for a
4:34
long time. How about you?
4:36
Yeah, I'm the same way. I don't think I've ever seen in
4:37
real life. I think you can define you want
4:40
room rule, pro, identity within an application maybe maybe that
4:44
would make sense, but not across like an organization.
4:46
Just I haven't seen anybody would be truly successful with
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it. Unless it's a very, very
4:52
specific use case like, I don't know, retail or something like
4:56
that, where it's like, oh, I'm, you know, a clerk or associate
4:59
or whatever term you use, right to call your frontline staff.
5:02
But even then, I think it's still pretty difficult to get
5:04
to. I like the idea of it, but I
5:07
just don't think it happens in the real world as often people
5:10
want it to. I agree that's definitely but
5:13
you know the the topic of roles kind of the the topic that keeps
5:16
on giving. I mean we we called this roles
5:18
with the center. I think we we have maybe even
5:22
more listeners. OK.
5:24
So the last one that I wanted to bring up from from Chris's, you
5:27
know pages and pages of DM here was and I just like the way he
5:31
wrote this. So it was new applications.
5:33
The final frontier I am now sits on the front line of companies
5:37
buying their new applications, sitting with vendors, pitching
5:41
their wares and asking us what is your authentication and
5:45
authorization strategy or I'm sorry with us asking that what
5:50
is your authentication, authorization strategy and our
5:54
universal translator must be busted as they look confused and
5:59
on why they need to have one. The business is playing the role
6:02
of Klingons, and they're mad that we are trashing their
6:06
proposal for a new tool or making them realize that their
6:10
new tool will be hard to manage once they get it.
6:13
Either way, they're looking to fight.
6:15
Well, I love the Star Trek references, and that would be a
6:17
hilarious episode to see if you can hang with those because
6:20
you've struggled with the Star Wars stuff in the past.
6:22
I wonder if you're better at Star Trek.
6:24
I'm definitely better at Star Trek, especially when we're in
6:26
that in the lane of of The Next Generation.
6:31
Okay. So if we stick to the next
6:32
generation side, I like the idea of it because I think a lot of
6:35
business, a lot of business counterparts for our IT brother
6:40
not there, just love to toss things over the IT wall and say,
6:44
Oh well, we bought this thing. You guys deal with it, right?
6:48
And I think that they need to understand they have a hand in
6:49
this a little more than maybe they've used to in the past.
6:53
And sometimes that's organizational politics.
6:54
Or it may be, but. Anything that brings down that
6:58
wall between the business and I T really partnering and when I
7:01
say ITI think I am as part of that as well is is really
7:05
helpful. I think just the organization
7:06
understands truly the risk and you know maybe trying to to
7:11
tackle some of that shadow spend or shadow IT that sometimes
7:14
exists with an organization. But yeah, it's, it always bugged
7:18
me when you know, just gets tossed over that wall and say,
7:20
okay, well, we bought this thing.
7:21
You guys figure it out. Yeah, absolutely.
7:24
And you know, I think these are the kind of topics that are also
7:27
great to pick folks brains that I am conferences when we all get
7:31
together. This episode is going to drop on
7:34
September 11th. Jeff, you're going to be busy
7:37
the week of September 11th. You're going to be at the
7:40
Cybersecurity Midwest Summit. Want to tell us about that?
7:43
Yeah, among many things. I'm traveling all pretty much
7:45
all week, but it's the last chance if you're hearing this on
7:48
September 11th. I will be on Thursday at the
7:51
Cybersecurity Midwest Summit in Cincinnati, OH.
7:54
It's put on by COM, Spark and CDO.
7:56
I'll be part of the panel. They're talking about identity
7:58
and access management. Part of there is Rs M's security
8:02
and privacy risk consulting practice.
8:04
So unofficially a working gig, you know, for for you and I, but
8:07
I'll be there representing us as a kind of go through that.
8:10
But if you're hearing this, it's probably your last chance to to
8:13
to figure out if you're going to be able to make it out.
8:15
Cincinnati, hopefully. You know, see some friendly
8:17
faces or new faces come up and say hello.
8:20
People always seem to gravitate towards you, Jim.
8:23
When we're ever on site someplace, I don't know, maybe I
8:25
just have, I don't know, an unfriendly face or something.
8:28
But I have a fancy suit. I have a fancy suit.
8:31
So. You just stick out.
8:32
Yeah, I'm usually playing the counter and one with the radar.
8:36
So yeah, definitely. Hopefully people come and see
8:39
that. Yeah.
8:40
And then you've got another. So the first week in October,
8:44
you and I are going to be at different conferences.
8:46
You're going to be at Identity Week, America.
8:48
Yep. October 3rd and 4th Washington
8:50
DC Identity Week America. I'm going to be hosting a panel
8:53
discussion on pass keys. So I'm looking forward to having
8:55
conversation about that. That's when we actually have a
8:58
discount code for and I. And by the way, I plot these
9:00
discount codes into the Slack channel earlier this morning for
9:05
the new conferences channel that's out there.
9:07
So plug for the ID Pro conferences.
9:09
Channel within Slack. I put some of this as well, but
9:12
if you use the code ID AC30I DA C30, you get 30% off of your
9:17
conference pass. And that code works for both
9:20
Identity Week America and Identity Week Asia, which is
9:23
also taking place later this year.
9:24
So hopefully people are able to take advantage of that code
9:27
because while I'm doing that you're going to be over at
9:29
Octane. I'll be an Octane, I'll be
9:32
there. And it's going to be a weird
9:34
thing because I feel like every conference that we've been at,
9:37
that I've been at in the last couple years, we've been
9:39
podcasting. So we're going to be a part.
9:41
I won't be podcasting, but I'm going to try something new.
9:44
I'm going to use my iPhone video and see if I can capture
9:47
something decent from a video perspective and if I can clip it
9:51
together to make it look semi professional to give people a
9:55
feeling for what it's like to be at the conference.
9:58
That'll be for people who can't go to the conference or if
10:00
really anybody can watch it. But for people who can make it,
10:03
we've got a 30% off discount code as well.
10:07
It's OKTNIDA C30. That's OKTNIDA C30.
10:13
For 30% off of your registration, go to
10:16
octa.com/octane and then Jeff, you and I are going to be the
10:22
official podcast of the Authenticate Conference which is
10:27
2 weeks later, October 16th through 18th Carlsbad, CA just
10:32
north of San Diego. We've got a discount code for
10:34
that one as well. It's the best discount code
10:37
you'll find. It's ID AC15 podcast is for 15%
10:41
off registration and one lucky person who uses that code will
10:47
receive a gift basket or gift bag.
10:50
I don't know what's going to be in the basket or bag.
10:52
It might just be pictures of us, Jeff.
10:55
I hope not, because that doesn't sound like much of A sound, like
10:58
much of A of a gift bag. So, like, more of a nightmare.
11:03
Well, hey, we don't know. We we don't know.
11:06
We're not making the bags. It could be a bag full of gold
11:10
Nuggets like it could be. Yeah, Well, I think that's going
11:14
to. Be a fun conference.
11:14
Yeah, I mean the fact that we'll be up there doing a keynote,
11:16
doing sort of a live show, it's it's going to be broadcast
11:20
around the world streaming at the same time.
11:21
So starting to put, you know, kind of how that's going to
11:24
work, getting some logistics in place.
11:26
And then of course you and I will be podcasting.
11:29
Yeah, it's a good time. So hopefully people are able to
11:31
take advantage of those discount codes.
11:32
I'll have them in our show notes as well.
11:34
So wherever you're catching this, you can hit the wherever
11:37
your show description things was at or you can come to our
11:39
website idcpodcast.com. And click on any of our recent
11:42
episodes and you should see all the kind of the links in there.
11:46
Anything else we want to get out there for awareness sake?
11:49
Or should we talk quantum? We should talk quantum.
11:52
I mean, last week we talked cryptography, right?
11:54
We did a crypto 1 cryptography 101 episode to kind of set the
11:59
stage for today. So thanks for Andrew for that
12:01
last week. And yeah, I think we're ready
12:03
for this conversation today. Yeah, so let's why don't we get
12:07
into it, cuz we've got a couple of guests, they're gonna help us
12:09
today. We did start off the
12:11
conversation last week with Cryptography 101.
12:13
So if you need a kind of a a refresher on that, probably a
12:17
good spot to start and then a spot to start, start to spot.
12:21
I can't talk today, but go back and listen to that.
12:23
That'll help with sort of setting the stage for this
12:25
conversation around quantum computing and sort of its
12:28
effects around identity and access management.
12:30
First, we're going to introduce Teresa Wu.
12:33
She is. With working on smart
12:36
credentials for Idemia, Identity security in North America.
12:40
She's joining us all the way from Vietnam and wanna welcome
12:44
here to the show. So welcome to the show, Teresa.
12:47
Thank you for having me, Jeff and Jim.
12:50
Yeah. So thanks for joining us.
12:51
We've also got Olivier, Nora, he's the Chief of Open
12:54
Innovation for Idemia Enterprise division.
12:57
He's joining us from France. Welcome, Olivier.
12:59
Bonjo Bonjovatus, Hello. Welcome everyone.
13:02
Onsure. So we're going worldwide today
13:04
because we've got, I think, people in just about all the
13:07
time zones that makes this a little more challenging for us.
13:11
Thank you guys both for joining us.
13:13
One of the things we like to do when we first have guests on our
13:16
show is learn a little bit more about their identity, background
13:18
and kind of understanding how do they get into the space in the
13:21
first place. And I want, I'm curious, how did
13:23
you guys get into the field of identity, Teresa, why don't we
13:26
start with you? Can you tell us a little bit
13:27
about your background? So since this bucket is gonna be
13:31
going on on the September 11, so fun fact, I started my
13:36
internship with a former entity of Idemia one month after after
13:42
September 11 as a marketing intern for the Biometric access
13:48
control terminal and payment terminal.
13:52
Business group as a marketing intern and I fell in love with
13:57
biometrics. I never left it.
13:59
I think I was kind of traumatized, impacted by the
14:04
event of September 11 and felt that the identity was sort of
14:11
how biometric can secure or anchor the identity.
14:16
And and that what's made me stay because of that, you know the
14:21
the, the, the bigger picture I play.
14:24
So I continue evolve from biometrics to other use cases
14:28
vertical and the last couple years has been more and more
14:31
focusing on identity and digital identity.
14:33
Olivier, how did you get into identity?
14:36
Oh, actually my first contact with identity was when I was 14,
14:40
and in fact I had at home the first smart card ever produced.
14:45
And I know very well the people who invented the smart card, and
14:48
that was when I was a kid and in fact when I started working in
14:52
IT for the past 20 years I've been in the security business,
14:55
I've been working by Atos, by Kat, Gemini, then very full in
14:58
the payment and then Idemia. And in fact identity is at the
15:02
heart of all the security systems.
15:04
And I saw all the development of malicious attack over the over
15:07
the years, in particular with the development of the Internet
15:09
starting in the 90s until 2023. And just for an example, when I
15:14
was in Capgemini, my Rd. team used to work a lot on social
15:18
engineering. And now do you take over
15:21
accounts and enter into a company without even touching
15:24
technology, but just by asking the right question and doing
15:26
some service? Wow, so 14 years old.
15:30
Smart cards. Did you?
15:32
When did you realize you were an identity?
15:33
Did you know it right away or did it take you a little?
15:37
While I realized it when I was on the Minitel, you know the
15:39
Minitel was an online system before the Internet in France.
15:43
And that was the first time I faked my identity and said I was
15:46
over 18. OK, so definitely not condoning
15:50
that behavior, but yeah, I I get it.
15:52
That's pretty cool. When I was 14, I was probably
15:55
playing Nintendo and basketball and that's pretty much was my
15:57
life. Teresa, your role has to do with
16:02
smart credentials for a Demi, I guess.
16:05
Tell us about what does that mean in the real world?
16:06
What, what can people expect? You know what your day-to-day to
16:09
look like. I have so actually in the.
16:12
So I have actually kind of two response, a 2 rolling major role
16:19
in in in this position. So number one, I'm the PNL owner
16:24
of our smart credential business in North America, meaning the
16:29
smart card business and the smart token business mostly.
16:33
So if you are working for the federal government or as a
16:38
contractor, as employee, then you.
16:40
Know that the PIF card, the cat card and the tweak card, those
16:44
are the card that that we manufacture or personalize for
16:49
certain agencies And so that fall in my responsibility for my
16:55
team to support them, deliver them.
16:59
So that's the the core of my one of my core area responsibility,
17:07
then the second responsibility I have.
17:10
It's actually linked to digital ID.
17:12
So right now I am the program executive sponsor for overseeing
17:17
all the mobile driver license or the digital ID implementation
17:23
for the state government level. So all the we call it MID, so
17:29
the MDL deployment that you see in the state mobile driver
17:34
license issuance. Those are the program that I'm
17:37
overseeing right now with another team that I manage and I
17:42
should we support the core team and make the digital digital
17:47
delivery is really different. Digital identity is sort of a
17:50
new thing. So that will be my second, my
17:54
other role in my current job. So day-to-day, a lot of
17:57
meetings, another back and forth with program team, engineering
18:02
team and. And making sure that the the out
18:07
mobile ID program get deploy and go as well and overcome
18:11
challenges and and things like that.
18:13
Interesting. I think I smell a second
18:15
conversation that we need to do around mobile driver's license.
18:17
I am an unabashed fan of digital attendees and trying to get
18:21
things onto my phone and out of my wallet as much as I can.
18:24
So hopefully North Carolina, someone's listening, gets on the
18:28
MDL hype train and gets us going with that.
18:31
Olivier, tell us, what about your role, chief for open
18:34
innovation at Idemia on the enterprise division, What does
18:38
that mean in the real world? Yeah, it means I'm in charge of
18:41
open innovation for the enterprise sector.
18:43
So Idemia actually has two main businesses, half of our
18:46
businesses on government, half is on on the price.
18:50
And as open innovation, it's in fact the idea of having to go
18:54
outside in order to innovate. And my day-to-day life, in fact,
18:57
is to understand new trends on the market.
18:59
Speak with people. Understand how innovation can
19:02
bring new value to the customers or how new challenges are coming
19:07
up front of customers that we need to tackle together.
19:11
And speaking about new challenges, the topic of today
19:14
post Quantum is clearly a challenge that everybody would
19:17
love to have escaped, but that is coming up to everyone.
19:21
And then when I identify an innovation, and obviously you
19:25
never know if it's a real innovation, a fake one, you have
19:27
to try and make mistakes. Then my goal is to lies with
19:31
partners, with clients in order to build, offering to understand
19:34
innovation, to merge all the building blocks that are
19:38
necessary to overcome the challenge or bring the value and
19:41
to maintain a network of innovative partners, pilot
19:44
clients, key stakeholders and also a lot of evangelization on
19:48
the market like this podcast is doing.
19:51
And speaking about post quantum, post quantum is typically at the
19:55
heart of this open innovation because it's a challenge that
19:57
will impact everyone. And which needs an industry
20:00
move, not not a single company will solve it.
20:02
We need to move all together in order to protect the citizens,
20:06
to protect the governments and the companies against that
20:08
threat. So I'm glad you brought that up
20:09
because I I sat through your presentation at Idanaverse and I
20:14
was like, oh, we gotta get these guys on the show kind of talk
20:17
about this. We haven't really gotten to the
20:18
quantum topic very much real quickly though.
20:21
Teresa, for people who aren't familiar with Idemia, can you
20:25
give us kind of like the 30 to 62nd elevator ride of what you
20:29
guys do? Because my familiarity comes
20:31
from the TSA line and going through Global Entry and things
20:35
like that. I always see the Idemia name on
20:36
some of the the products are out there, but I'm sure there's more
20:39
to it than that. So Olivia, Olivia's earlier
20:43
already start talking about how Idemia is organized.
20:46
We have actually two major business unit.
20:49
We have the enterprise business unit serving the private sector.
20:54
And then we have another business focus for government
20:59
and in the private sector, we provide our based on our
21:05
cryptography technology, we provide banking cards,
21:11
personalization services to the banking sector and also to the
21:17
mobile operator for connecting connectivity services.
21:22
So that's. Basically your mobile phone, the
21:25
SIM card, your mobile phone, the E SIM services, that's where
21:29
Idemia provides services to. And then wherever it's in your
21:33
wallet, the EMV chip, smart card based banking cards, that's also
21:40
what Idemia provides. So that's all the private sector
21:43
and in the government we do everything from biometric
21:47
identification system to identity documents to border
21:51
security solution to what you see at the TSA checkpoint, every
21:56
everything that touch identity document, biometrics, those are
22:00
sort of our core competency in addition to system I would say
22:06
analytics and solution and beef book solution that we provide to
22:10
government. So ensure that's what we do.
22:13
That's great. So, Olivia, I'd like to take the
22:16
topic of quantum computing. Such a complex topic, and I'm
22:21
not even sure I really have my arms around exactly what it
22:25
means. So can we start with kind of a
22:27
basic explanation of what it is and how it differs from
22:32
computing today? So you said we would start hard.
22:35
So we're gonna start hard. In fact, Jim, maybe for everyone
22:40
to understand, a quantum computer is not a computer that
22:44
is going faster. In fact, it will not replace our
22:47
current computers. It's a computer that works
22:50
differently, and instead of doing mathematical computation,
22:55
in fact it will rely on a physical phenomenon to solve
22:58
some problems, some of which are easy to solve with quantum
23:03
computing, but maybe in order to be more.
23:06
More easy to understand. I will take an example of the
23:10
optical computer. You remember the optical
23:12
computer we had in the early 2000s.
23:15
Everybody was saying the optical computer working with light will
23:19
replace the traditional computer and will completely blow the
23:24
computation power that we will have.
23:26
And today nobody speaks about the optical computer and yet the
23:29
optical computer is everywhere. All telecommunication networks
23:33
are using optical computer. How is it in fact, the mistake
23:37
was to think that you could replace the classic computer.
23:40
What you do is you do some functionality much faster.
23:44
And I will give you a very simple one which is routing,
23:47
sending a packet from A to B. When you do it with optical
23:51
computer, let's say you are on a fiber wave and you are on the
23:54
fiber wave color blue. So you're coming with a blue
23:57
color and you want to send it to another fiber with a red color.
24:02
What you do? Is you place a blue filter in
24:05
front of the first color, so you just extract the blue color.
24:08
You put the micro mirror, so just small mirror, a nano mirror
24:12
that would bounce the light from one fiber to the other one.
24:15
And then you put a new filter which is a red filter to put it
24:19
in red. And in fact with two filters and
24:22
a mirror, a nano mirror, you're able to route a packet much more
24:26
efficiently than a traditional computer.
24:29
In fact, quantum physics is the same if you.
24:32
Take a very simple problem when you when you think of it the
24:36
basic problem of cryptography which is finding the prime
24:40
numbers that multiply by themselves give another number.
24:44
Let's take 1515 is 3 * 5. That's easy everybody everybody
24:49
knows that 15 is 3 * 5. Now if I give you 1000 digit
24:54
number and ask you what are the two prime numbers that multiply
24:58
by each other, give this one. This is a very, very, very
25:02
difficult problem to solve, and in fact mathematicians have
25:05
proven that the only way to find these two numbers is to do brute
25:09
force, to try everything and to try everything, every single
25:13
number. That's what we call a very
25:15
complex problem where there is no mathematical solution to
25:19
solve that problem. The issue is that there is a
25:23
quantum physics solution which is with the right quantum
25:26
computer, with the right disposition of your atoms.
25:30
You can input 15 at the at one hand and then automatically the
25:37
quantum physics will produce at the output of the side 3:00 and
25:41
5:00 and that works for every number.
25:43
So in fact it's a very complex mathematical problem that the
25:48
quantum physics solves in a different way.
25:51
So quantum computer in fact takes these type of problems and
25:54
solve it without having to do any computation or any
25:57
mathematical reasoning. Which is the reason why it's
26:01
dangerous for cryptography, Because cryptography was looking
26:04
for problems you can't solve. And some of these problems we
26:08
forgot or we didn't know at that time that the quantum physics
26:11
could solve it, because it's not a mathematical reasoning.
26:14
And so the future quantum computer will not replace your
26:18
computer, but will solve some problem differently than the way
26:22
classic computers are doing it. Now you can ask me but if.
26:27
A quantum computer can break cryptography because the quantum
26:31
physics knows how to do. How do we protect ourselves from
26:33
such powerful computer? In fact, it's a little bit like
26:38
a Canon on a shooting stand. You know, for security reason,
26:42
the Canon shoots in One Direction, and if you are
26:44
sitting between the Canon and the target, you are at danger.
26:48
So the best way to protect yourself is to go out of range.
26:53
I said the quantum computer can solve some problem but doesn't
26:56
know how to solve all problems. So if it happens, which is
27:02
unfortunate but true that the fundamental problem of
27:05
cryptography are solved by quantum computer, the way to
27:08
protect ourselves is to change the problem to take something
27:11
that the quantum computer cannot do.
27:14
And so everything we are going to speak about is because
27:17
quantum computer know how to solve prime.
27:20
Number of multiplication the 15 is 3 * 5.
27:23
The quantum computer knows how to solve it.
27:26
However, some of the problems the quantum computer cannot know
27:30
how to solve it. So we are safe on these
27:31
problems. That's a great explanation.
27:35
I think it clears up a lot. One thing I'm thinking of, what
27:39
I've heard is these quantum computers are very rare.
27:42
They're, you know, and they're going to be very expensive.
27:45
You never have a quantum computer in your.
27:48
Phone like I think what you're saying is it doesn't replace it.
27:52
Do you have to have a quantum computer?
27:54
Do you have to have physically have one in order to do these
27:59
prime, prime, multiple, prime quantifications that you're
28:04
talking about? In fact, that's the problem of
28:07
quantum computer is that in order to break cryptography,
28:11
most of the cryptography rely on the root certificate.
28:15
You know the trusted authority. Somebody needs to be trusted and
28:19
then everybody is using that trusted authority to say I am
28:23
Olivier and I prove you that I'm Olivier because this trusted
28:26
authority has signed my ID document.
28:30
Now if you get the certificate, the public certificate of this
28:34
trusted authority, so the public information, that will help me
28:39
check that I am Olivier and you just run it once into a quantum
28:43
computer just once. You get the private key of the
28:47
public authority and you are the master of the world.
28:50
You can reforge identity, you can change everything.
28:53
So the only thing that it needs in order to attack modern
28:57
cryptography is a single access to 1 quantum computer, which
29:03
probably will be on SAS, on the Internet, in the cloud, and
29:06
which could probably be everywhere from governments or
29:10
anywhere. So the thing we are trying to
29:13
protect ourselves from is somebody.
29:15
Getting access to a quantum computer.
29:17
A quantum computer. It's a cylinder of two meters by
29:19
two. It's not a big equipment.
29:22
Anybody who can get access for one single transaction to
29:25
quantum computer can get the master key and be the king of
29:28
the world, okay. So if that doesn't appropriately
29:30
scare people, I don't know what does.
29:34
There's this concept of Y2Q, which I believe is probably a
29:37
spinoff of Y2K and the 2 digit date problem that we had well 23
29:42
years ago. Teresa, that term Y2Q is coming
29:47
up more frequently. Can you explain what it is?
29:49
Do I have it right? And when should I hit the panic
29:52
button? Wow.
29:55
So I think when we really stage it really well about the when is
30:02
Y2QY2Q is the moment when you have one single quantum computer
30:09
made available. Be powerful enough to break the
30:12
modern cryptography that we we rely on today.
30:17
That's the right to queue date. We don't know when, right?
30:22
But it we one thing for sure that we know it will have
30:26
dramatic and serious consequences when the quantum
30:32
computer it's able to break the asymmetric cryptography as we
30:37
know today. So because with that we can
30:40
force new certificate, we can modify software update, we can't
30:45
even change identity of records and accessing confidential
30:50
information that's protected today, right, It's encrypted
30:53
today, but by breaking the key, you have the private key to
30:59
decrypt that confidential information.
31:02
So it has, I would say, serious. Significant impact in our system
31:10
today. In example, think about your
31:13
banks today in order for a consumer to log in the you
31:20
reached the official banking website.
31:22
The bank store certificate on the website allows you to
31:25
connect with a secure connections.
31:28
Once we grab that public key, a malicious actor can basically.
31:36
Replicate the private key and set up a mirror website and you
31:40
will not be able to tell that that is the legitimate or
31:43
illegitimate banking site because it looks basically the
31:46
same and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
31:48
I mean, that's a very elaborate form of social engineering, you
31:51
think about it. It's a very, almost very
31:54
difficult to tell phishing attack, right?
31:57
Yeah, exactly. So that's where, and like what
32:01
Olivia said, a mind actor can. Just use the quantum computer
32:08
once to generate that that banking site by by finding that
32:14
private key. It doesn't have to be
32:18
instantaneous, right? They can just take the time to
32:21
find it and then build that website and build that phishing
32:24
attack. So be more and more elaborate,
32:26
very difficult to tell the cipher phishing attack.
32:29
We do nothing today. So the Y2Q is.
32:36
Similar to Y2K because things going to break.
32:39
However Y2K at least predictable we knew when was that happen is
32:44
in the year 2000. It's a clear date in mind Y2Q.
32:48
We don't know when. We just know the circumstances
32:53
that will happen right when what that means Y2K leads to maybe
32:59
accidents, errors in the system, but it's not fatal in Y2Q.
33:05
I just give the the, the example, the bank it can open
33:08
doors to lots of militias or fraud fraudulent use of what we
33:14
our system that we rely on today.
33:17
So, so that's where we need to stop preparing for because we
33:28
actually with right to queue, everyone's vulnerable.
33:32
If we don't start looking at how to migrate and like what Olivia
33:37
said, moving ourself away from the zone of attack, that's the
33:41
focus for what we need to do before.
33:45
Why 2 Q happens? So we can't tell when it's gonna
33:48
happen, Oblivia. I know that there are companies
33:52
out there that have quantum today already, IBM, Google, I'm
33:56
sure others, governments, etc. I guess how do we define this
34:01
transition? Is it a gradual transition where
34:04
it just kind of all this, you know, it just kind of happens
34:06
over time or is it bang it just happened and we didn't know it
34:11
or maybe it's happened and we don't know it yet?
34:13
Like what are your thoughts on that?
34:15
My thought on that is, is, is we are, you know, like in these
34:18
movies where you have a ticking bomb and you don't really know
34:22
when it will set off, but you know at one point it will.
34:25
And the only thing you're thinking of is I want to get out
34:27
of this room. I want to get out of this room.
34:29
So as we said, you need one access to a quantum computer to
34:34
retrieve any private key. So if you are a company and you
34:37
have an R&D department with all your secrets and patents and
34:40
secrets industrial secrets, you competitor just needs one
34:46
private key, one access to one of your public certificate to
34:49
get your private key, and to get his private key, it's one access
34:53
to a quantum computer, which is not very difficult to do.
34:56
And once you get that key, the rest is classic attack.
34:59
You just have the key for the mentor.
35:03
And now the issue you have is probably they will not tell it
35:07
about you. They will not tell you, hey, I
35:08
have the key, probably they will copy everything, they will do
35:11
the things and you will not even know about it.
35:14
So it's something that is going on where the risk is actually
35:18
increasing over time because unfortunately the quantum
35:21
computer provider are holding the promise they did.
35:24
Some forecast on when they would be ready, and up to now most of
35:28
them are following the quantum rules.
35:30
They are following the law. Now the question you might ask
35:34
is OK, but when shall I move? When is the risk for me too high
35:39
or too bad? This is actually the wrong
35:41
question, because the real question is when will Security
35:44
Agency, the sizer, the niece, the NSA, the NSA in France?
35:49
All the security agencies, Government security agencies?
35:52
When will they mandate the change?
35:54
Because they will assess that the risk is too high and they
35:58
will force everybody to migrate. And the issue is that when they
36:01
mandate the change and everybody will have to do it as fast as
36:04
possible. And the people who are not
36:06
prepared will not be able to match the requirements that is
36:10
imposed by the government for national security reasons.
36:14
And we are in identity here. I have another bad news, which
36:19
is most probably the first system you would like to move is
36:23
the Identity Management System because that's the one at the
36:26
heart of all security systems. So even if you say OK, I want to
36:30
see what I migrate first, I want to migrate first my most secure,
36:34
most confidential part and then the other one later.
36:39
Most probably your IM, your IM systems are in this.
36:43
Part in this kernel, of course systems that you need to protect
36:47
absolutely. I think This is why we would
36:49
like to end the podcast on a lighter note, because this is
36:53
some scary stuff. But you know that the whole
36:57
thing I think we focused so far on was the ability to for
37:01
Quantum to really threaten the way cryptography is done today.
37:06
I'd like to bring it back to the, you know the the main.
37:11
Topic of this podcast Identity and Teresa asked you what
37:16
problems does quantum computing pose to the field of identity.
37:21
Wow. You know, with zero trust, we
37:24
starting to realize right when you want a good security system
37:28
identity is like literally no pun in the at the center.
37:32
You have to make sure you know who you're dealing with right in
37:36
your network, in your system, in your access of information.
37:39
So now with quantum computer, it definitely impact the identity
37:44
management system in two ways. It can compromise your user
37:48
identity. You don't.
37:50
Can you really trust that user identity that you created even 5
37:55
days ago? Is that still trustable right.
37:58
And then it also compromise the access, it can reach the access
38:02
management piece. So you have you talk about IM.
38:06
It can compromise the identity of the users.
38:08
It can also compromise the access management of the system.
38:13
So it it have in you look at the user identity side, the identity
38:19
proofing, Can you retrust that event?
38:22
Can you trust that user authentication event?
38:25
Can you retrust the account recovery event and decentralized
38:29
identity? When it's when the identity is
38:32
decentralized manager of the edge and it's secured by the
38:36
cryptography? Can quantum computing all these
38:42
I will say things that we trust before we going to have to learn
38:46
and find a way to trust they got protected so we can trust it
38:49
again. Then with the Bridge Assessment
38:51
Assessment Management, it will impact the trusted authority,
38:55
the session authentications on the, on the software, on the, I
38:59
would say the software side, on the coding side, but also on the
39:02
hardware side. Because when you have access
39:06
management, it's not just logical access control, the
39:08
digital access but also the physical access and the
39:13
equipment that you use to do access control the equipment
39:16
they use for authentication can be can be broken as as well.
39:21
So and the digital signature that we rely upon.
39:25
So yeah, all those gonna, I would say have.
39:31
What it means for identity management with the impact for
39:35
what it posed as a threat to identity, the fuel identity
39:39
itself. So I'm sorry I'm giving you like
39:43
hope here, but it's pretty scary.
39:46
It is scary and I think I love the answer because you mentioned
39:50
the word a couple of times. Trust.
39:54
Our entire concept of Identity and Access management is based
39:59
on the concept of. Trust and when you have a
40:04
breakdown in your ability to communicate and to encrypt
40:11
messages, how can you? You can't trust the underlying
40:15
technology, how can you have trust between organizations or
40:20
that processes are going to hold tight, right?
40:22
So I think this this is a potentially a direct attack at
40:27
trust, which is the fundamental concept in identity.
40:31
Do you want to follow up on that, Theresa?
40:33
Correct. I think that's why we started.
40:35
Olivia and I started to evangelize on.
40:38
We start preparing. We need to build a new paradigm
40:41
on how to trust by, by, by prepare for the arrival of
40:48
quantum computing by using cryptography.
40:51
That quantum computer I'm not good at solving, but by greeting
40:55
to a new kind of cryptography technology takes time.
41:00
You know I think a lot people mentioned short to migration was
41:03
painful and take forever. We don't have that time to take
41:07
the luxury to take forever. So we need to start preparing
41:10
you now do to do that. So I think the the it's not all
41:15
like last, but we definitely need to start working on it
41:18
because the ticking time bomb is here.
41:21
Yeah, that's a great point. It's planning to or failing to
41:26
plan is planning to fail, you know.
41:28
But sometimes the only things, time, things change for people
41:32
is when we're facing an immediate threat or the threat
41:36
has taken place and say, oh, now we actually have to do something
41:40
about it. But that's why we have the
41:43
podcast. We're we're hoping to shine a
41:46
little bit more light on this. So I wanted to ask Olivier, what
41:52
types of roles or subdisciplines in the I M field should be most
41:57
concerned with about the the all the threats we've been talking
42:02
about related to quantum? And do you think it's like the
42:05
authentication side or you know, the hashing of passwords and
42:10
those being taken and published on the dark web, What are the
42:14
areas that you know, specific areas that concern you the most?
42:19
Yeah. Maybe to to to have a positive
42:22
note on this topic I will not speak about.
42:25
All what the IT vendors, so our sales people supplying IAM
42:29
software and others are doing because obviously all the IT
42:32
sector in the security business is working very, very fast to
42:36
face a threat and to provide tools and equipment in order to
42:43
solve and to protect our customers and governments and
42:46
citizens against the quantum computer.
42:48
What I will be focusing here is for an IAM user, somebody using
42:52
these technologies. What feel are concerned and if
42:56
we speak about priority in IAM, there are actually 4 domains
43:00
that will be first impacted. The first one is Authentication,
43:04
access management, PKI and digital signature.
43:08
For all of these, there are bricks that are being built by
43:12
vendors in order to migrate to post control.
43:15
However, there is a challenge we didn't speak about here which.
43:19
Will be another nightmare and we'll see that this needs to be
43:22
tackled upfront and understood through proof of concepts and to
43:26
preparation, which is crypto agility.
43:29
If I take current cryptography, whether I take RSA, RSA was
43:34
introduced in 1970s, It's something that was developed
43:37
early 20th century, elliptic curve, had over 60 years of
43:42
experience and and and and lessons learned.
43:46
But these were very stable algorithm developed over time,
43:50
proven implemented. And I would say most of the
43:54
people listening to us today know RSC and ECC has very stable
43:59
algorithm and protocols and very unvulnerable algorithm except
44:05
against quantum computer. The new algorithms that are
44:08
coming up actually completely at the opposite, they are very new.
44:11
We are developing them in a hurry doesn't mean they are not
44:15
safe. It means that they will probably
44:18
need to be tuned, adjusted, they will have vulnerabilities, they
44:22
will have issues when we first release them that will force
44:26
people to update them all the time on the field.
44:31
We are entering a world which is called crypto agility, which is
44:34
that instead of using building blocks that are very very solid,
44:38
we are now on the boat with a sea of algorithm.
44:42
And the boat is moving, so you need to constantly update the
44:45
algorithm when a vulnerability comes up or when something new
44:48
that we didn't know is discovered.
44:50
That's because this algorithm and when we speak about crypto
44:54
agility, it means that obviously for people who are using IAM
44:58
systems, you need to set up a multidisciplinary team in order
45:02
to manage your project and the migration over time.
45:05
But you need also to introduce a new role, which I would call
45:08
crypto asset manager, which is somebody.
45:12
A leader that on the long run will own and watch and manage
45:17
and maintain all the crypto assets of the company.
45:20
Which is actually a positive sign because everybody in the
45:23
security business knows that When you don't know your crypto
45:26
assets, when you don't know where your cryptography is used,
45:29
it's a bad sign for security because if you have a weakness
45:33
somewhere, you might not know it, but the hackers will know.
45:36
Now here you need to have somebody to maintain and update
45:40
Everything Everywhere and I will just give an example.
45:43
It means that you need to maintain and to keep up to date
45:46
all your corporate employee badges, which today nobody
45:50
maintains because they are set and that's fine.
45:52
In the future you need to update them.
45:54
Corporate badges, Fido keys, all your critical devices, equipment
45:59
on the factory, equipment in trucks.
46:01
Everything needs to be managed to be up to date in terms of
46:05
vulnerability. And that's what's called crypto
46:08
agility and crypto asset manager.
46:10
This is a brand new role which goes way beyond technology.
46:14
It's really a role that is a business role that is new to
46:17
IAM. And that's one of the reason why
46:20
we really advocate to anticipate and to prepare not only from the
46:24
technology side, but to understand what it means to all
46:27
maintain all these assets in the company.
46:30
Are we gonna need new technologies to support this or
46:33
is that crypto agility something that you think is existing
46:39
vendors are going to either support or have to support to
46:43
keep alive in this? Where do you see that going,
46:46
Olivier? We need new technologies like
46:48
algorithms and new architectures, but I would say
46:52
IT vendors, IETF, GSMA, all the professionals in the security
46:57
business are working on them. These technologies are much more
47:02
advanced than what we used to do and they are not plug and play.
47:05
So everybody's looking at understanding what is the most
47:08
convenient, how to use migration path plus most probably every
47:12
case will be a little different and we will most probably learn
47:16
how to apply these new technologies for the next 10 to
47:19
15 years. That's why, in fact, what we
47:23
really need is not really a silver bullet.
47:25
That would be a technology. But we need a process we need.
47:29
Companies that are facing this migration to set up a team that
47:33
will learn. A multidisciplinary team that
47:35
will learn about these new technologies and how to apply
47:38
them. And most importantly get the
47:41
whole on the crypto assets in order to implement crypto
47:44
agility. Know where they are, maybe
47:46
centralize them or better organize them so that they are
47:49
easy to change and make sure that cryptographic algorithm and
47:53
crypto asset. Are part of the vital assets of
47:57
a company because that's the assets that will make this
48:00
company safe against hackers. That's it.
48:02
That sounds pretty easy to me. I would you like to end on a
48:06
light note because I feel like this has been pretty deep
48:09
conversation in the multiverse of identity as I think we'll
48:12
probably have to start calling it.
48:15
I know that we kind of talked about before we hit record some
48:18
of the things that we that we do and we're not solving Quantum's
48:21
identity challenge. And one of those is cooking.
48:24
Teresa, if you have to prepare one meal to impress somebody,
48:30
what are you going to make? So for those who don't know,
48:33
actually I did. I did spend some time my
48:35
formative year in France. So I would, I like to prepare my
48:41
version of French bougueno, beef bougueno with a very with a
48:47
based on a very nice bottle of red wine.
48:49
So I would sort of feel like spin on it.
48:53
To impress my guests and then finish it off at dinner with we
48:58
very nicely presented with cleanly slide French apple tart.
49:04
So that's gonna be my go to if I have to impress like.
49:09
My guest. Okay.
49:10
Well, I'm impressed just hearing about it.
49:11
So I have yelling at do you have a specific wine that you paired
49:16
that you mentioned a red, but are you thinking it's beef?
49:20
So maybe Cabernet or Merlot or something later like a Pinot.
49:24
So to cook it I use a Cabernet, but to serve it I personally
49:30
like pinot ROI. I know, not really French, but I
49:34
like pinot ROI. But if I'm gonna have to go with
49:37
the French wine. I will go with a Boo going.
49:39
Olivia, I got a different question for you.
49:41
What's the most underrated spice if you're cooking So salt,
49:47
pepper, paprika, like that sort of thing.
49:49
Or if you've got some other definition of you like to use,
49:52
what do you think is an underrated spice that people
49:54
should be checking out more? In fact, this weekend I cooked a
49:59
pie and I went and I purchased an herb.
50:02
Herb might be a spice and I like to bounce on Teresa as Buff
50:06
Bourguignon. I discovered and I adjusted the
50:09
buffer in your Italian style, and there is an herb which I
50:14
like a lot and people don't really know about it, which is
50:17
sage. I think you say sage in English
50:20
and sage in French means wise, in fact in French is Saul.
50:24
But the word sage in English means wise in French, and sage
50:29
is an herb that you use a lot in Italy and South of France, which
50:33
has a very particular taste and is.
50:36
Absolutely gorgeous with Beau Bourguignon.
50:38
If you change the wine, you can go from a red wine to a lighter
50:42
one, change a little bit the vegetable, then add sage.
50:47
That's just gorgeous. And Sage goes very well with
50:51
apple pie, so the French apple tart can be adjusted.
50:55
With a different twist, with some sage, some wiseness.
50:58
So let's find out. Teresa, do you do you put sage
51:01
in your dishes today or is this something you have to try out?
51:05
So the the main main one that I use Sage with is Turkey, right,
51:10
for Thanksgiving. So that's my American side,
51:13
right, the 20 years spending in America, almost 20 years
51:15
spending in America. So I cook, I use Sage mostly for
51:19
Thanksgiving. So already is right.
51:21
I mean sage, you don't really use that often.
51:24
But I may try it now, based on what Olivier said.
51:29
I may put A twist to my beef book in your own.
51:34
I feel like I'll try anything, Olivia mentions.
51:37
He's got me convinced on anything.
51:39
Usually when I pair with Turkey is a nap, but that's just me.
51:43
So, Jim, how about yourself? Is there a special meal that you
51:48
like to prepare? Do you have an underrated spice?
51:50
I had an underrated spice, but Olivier mentioned it.
51:54
Sage did. You know, I was gonna say
51:57
because I told you this weekend I had one of the best breakfast
52:02
meals I've ever had, which was basically it was like a bunch of
52:07
great stuff on top of a biscuit that they use sage, sausage
52:11
gravy. And oh, that's such a wonderful
52:15
taste. And it was at the restaurant
52:17
called The Flying Biscuit. I think it's in the Carolinas,
52:21
Jeff. I looked and that they have one
52:23
in Raleigh. So I didn't see every location,
52:26
but man, that was just fantastic.
52:28
So folks, if you get a chance, hit the flying biscuit in the
52:33
Carolinas, get the get the sage sausage gravy.
52:38
Fantastic. That sounds pretty good.
52:42
I don't. I'm not much of A cook, so I
52:43
definitely can't prepare a meal. I I would take us somewhere nice
52:47
rather than try to prepare something.
52:49
So I'm going to go with the underrated spice.
52:52
And this is going to sound really dumb.
52:53
Probably most people, but I think it's just plain salt.
52:56
I don't think a lot of dishes for me have enough salt in it to
53:00
bring out much of the flavor. It seems like a lot of things I
53:03
taste are bland. Maybe it's just me and my
53:05
palate. I like salt, but it seems like
53:08
everywhere I go I need to add salt to something.
53:11
Which makes sense if you think about it.
53:12
If you're preparing it, you want to over salt it, you want to
53:14
salt to taste, and everybody has a different taste when it comes
53:18
to salt. So I don't know, I'm not
53:19
professional. Olivier, Are you laughing at me,
53:22
Teresa? Are you laughing at me for me
53:24
choosing salt? Or is there any modica please
53:26
ask you me for having salt be an underrated spice?
53:31
Jeff, if I may, I will send you a very nice French recipe of
53:35
Dorad. It's actually fish.
53:37
Cooked under salt. The Chinese also have a recipe
53:40
where you cook with salt, like literally the whole wok.
53:44
It's full of salt and you cook the fish or the chicken wrapped
53:49
around with salt. So actually salt.
53:52
It's very versatile and have actually.
53:55
It's not one single toilet flavor like salty actually
53:58
that's depth to it. And you can smoke the salt and
54:00
bring out other kind of flavor from it or garlic infusing with
54:04
other herbs. So it's really a good.
54:06
I was thinking about salt when you asked me that question in
54:09
prep but then I went with the meal.
54:11
But I do agree that it's salt can can create that in your dish
54:19
you use it. Well, yeah, and salt is probably
54:22
the only spice that you cannot live without.
54:25
If you do not have salt, you will die.
54:26
Good. Thing.
54:27
I'm not going to die anytime soon because I ate a lot of
54:28
salt, probably too much salt. All right, let's go ahead and
54:33
leave it there for this week. Olivia and Teresa, thank you so
54:35
much for joining us. Thank you for backing me up on
54:38
my salt play. I definitely appreciate that.
54:40
Sounds like we're going to have to have dinner at Teresa's at
54:42
some point and try out these these concoctions.
54:47
Any final thoughts or takeaways, Teresa, before we wrap things
54:51
up? Yeah, I think that you said you
54:54
have international audience. You may want to set a more
54:57
ambitious road map for your broadcast to do international
55:02
broadcast and show, and then you get invited to Olivia's house in
55:05
the. Future, I would love to travel
55:08
internationally. Travel is of course as you know
55:11
expensive. So if there is a conference or
55:14
something out there that wants to sponsor, you know Jim and I
55:16
coming out and doing something live from there like we do with
55:18
some of the other stuff in the in the US definitely.
55:22
I would definitely be up for that for sure.
55:23
I love the travel so that would be good, but it is expensive.
55:27
Olivier, anything you want to wrap things up with?
55:30
No, I think that was great. And for your information, salt
55:34
used to be taxed in France and that the only thing that we have
55:37
removed taxes in France, we are tax specialists and in fact we
55:41
removed the taxes on salt, which actually was a good move.
55:45
There's a fun fact, Jim. Anything you want to wrap things
55:48
up with now I think you know this podcast just like there's
55:53
so many other resources, is great for sharpening the saw,
55:57
getting you thinking maybe sending you down a path to do
56:02
some more research and become more knowledgeable.
56:04
And I mean, that's really how I built my IT knowledge and later
56:09
I M knowledge is you find these things that you don't understand
56:13
that you want to learn more about and you go out and
56:15
research and you know, hopefully this teases a few ideas in your
56:19
mind that you go out and do further research.
56:21
Because I think everything we covered today was very much at
56:24
the at the surface level, there's so much more.
56:27
So I encourage everyone dive. Deeper Yeah, we definitely can't
56:31
solve all of Quantum identities problems in one podcast, but I
56:34
think this was a good start to at least having a conversation
56:37
get going. We're gonna go ahead and leave
56:39
things there for this week. We will have links in our show
56:43
notes to Teresa and Olivier to connect with them on LinkedIn.
56:47
Also, we can learn more about idemia at idemia.com idemia.com.
56:54
I'll have a bunch of links in our show notes as well for the
56:56
different conferences and discount codes for the different
56:59
things we've got. As well as connecting with Jim
57:01
and I send us ideas for shows, questions, comments, concerns,
57:06
pictures of Whoppers, candy, Those go to gym.
57:09
And you can find us on the web at IDAC podcast.com and we're on
57:13
Twitter or X or whatever at IDAC podcasts.
57:16
We're on Mastodon at IDAC Podcast at infosec dot exchange.
57:21
And don't forget that subscribe button so you know when new
57:24
episodes are coming out and you could be among the first that
57:26
hear them. So thanks everyone for listening
57:29
and we'll talk with everyone in the next one.
57:32
You've been listening to Identity at the Center.
57:35
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57:39
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57:43
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57:47
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57:54
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