Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Offseason Position Reviews: Catchers

Transcript

Offseason Position Reviews: Catchers · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: presented to you by the Foul Territory Network. I'm Noah Hiles.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Joining me, as always, are my co-hosts, Josh Harrison and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Platinum Key, a.k.a. Mark. It is Tuesday, October 13th. We
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: continue our... off-season outlook for the Pittsburgh Pirates. We're going
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: through position groups. We did the starting rotation and bullpen
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: last week. Today we are doing the catchers here on
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Bucko territory. A very interesting position group for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: It was a big question mark heading into last season.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: They broke camp with two guys who we expected to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: break camp, Joey Bart and Henry Davis. Neither of them
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: ended up being really their top two catchers this year.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Rafael Flores and Endy Rodriguez both had pretty good seasons.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Henry Davis bats under 200 once again, but had some
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: decent catches. you know, defensive metrics and the team was
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: 45 and 40 and his 95 start or 85 starts
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: this year. Um, so guys, we've already broke down the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: catcher position in our end of year report card, but
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to just review the big story
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: when you're looking at how this group builds internally. Um,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And we've also talked about kind of the role you
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: put Rafael Flores in. So mainly, the big story for me,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: when you're looking at the Pirates catcher position and you're
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: talking internal things that could change, is Henry Davis and
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Andy Rodriguez are set to hit their first year of
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: arbitration this year. MLB Trade Rumors has their projections at,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: for Davis, $ 1. 4 million in his first year of ARB,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and Andy Rodriguez, $ 1. 2 million in his first year of ARB.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And I think both of them, you can make a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: debate as to if you should or should not tender
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: them a contract. So I'll open up the floor. Let's
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: start with Henry Davis. Mark, I'll start this one with you.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Henry Davis for $ 1. 4 million. Is that worth tendering him
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: a contract? Are you non-tendering him or are you trying
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to lowball him a little bit at that number?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I think low-balling at that number probably is your best bet.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't non-tender him quite yet, just given the Pirates'
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: depth at that position, because I'm not exactly sure where
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: you would turn if not for Henry. He did have
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: the 8th most defensive run saved among catchers in MLB
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: this year. He had positive war, barely, but he had
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: 0.5 B-war, 0.6 F-war. Uh, but he did have that,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: you know, the, the 59 OPS plus that, uh, is
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: just very concerning. He had 44 hits this year. 10
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of those were home runs. And so those 10 home
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: runs are really carrying that, that OPS up quite a bit. Um,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: so I, yeah, I'm, I'm concerned about Henry, but at
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: least the defensive production gives you some baseline. Um, if
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: he's your backup catcher. Okay. But yeah, I went non-tender
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: him quite yet. What about you, Josh?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Um, Winning record as a catcher.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: You mentioned some defensive stats that obviously you're not going
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: to argue because there is more to it than the
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: offensive side.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: But as you said, I wouldn't quite pull the trigger
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: just yet.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Just because, I mean, you know, depending on how this
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: offseason is going to go, what you're going to do,
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: you know, as you said, he could potentially be a backup.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: But I don't think it's anybody that they'd be settling
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: on saying less offensively.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: Make this our guy because he's been around for some
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: years and you kind of know what you're getting um
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: defense is kind of the only thing in my eyes
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: that's probably keeping him around but um you know they
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: they've got some decisions to make but um i could
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: definitely see them probably trying to go on the lower
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: end but um you know especially as arbitration but um
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: i don't think defense is enough that he's done to
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: where they're really gonna be like oh this is what
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: we have to do but you do have to take
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: into account winning record.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: That's handling a pitching staff. That's bullpen. So that does
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: add some.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: Weight to it, which you can– they give a little
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: forgiveness offensively, but I don't think– I think it's getting
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: shorter and shorter as if it wasn't already on its
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: last limb.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I still think, all that being said, I mean $ 1. 4
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: million is not a lot of money in Major League
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Baseball in today's world. And what you would– if you
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: do non-tender Henry Davis– you're probably going to spend more
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: on a backup catcher to replace him, right? Like, I mean,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: because if you non-tender Henry, you would have to do
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: so under the assumption that you're acquiring at least one catcher.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Because you don't know when you're getting Andy back. You
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: don't know if Roe Flores can be your number one catcher.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So Henry provides, at the very least, some form of stability, right?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: and that he's probably going to stay healthy and that
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: he can give you above average defense. And if I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: got to pay a million dollars to get that, I
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: think that that's, that's fine. The problem is backup catcher.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem is he plays more than a backup
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: catcher show. And that's, that's the issue. Now, if you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: want to construct your roster differently, which we're going to
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: get into later in the show, and make it so
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that Henry Davis is a true backup catcher. He just
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: maybe catches schemes. And one other guy a week, $ 1. 4
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: million for what he does defensively is totally fine. Even
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: for the Pirates budget, I think that that's a fair deal,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and that's what I expect. I would be shocked if
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: they non-tendered him, particularly because I still think you could
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: trade him. I would rather, if you want to get
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: rid of him, for production reasons or maybe, you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm not insinuating this is the case, but just say,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: you know, say he pissed someone off. And again, not
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: reporting that. This is 100% hypothetical. He still, just with
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the 1-1 tag on him, I still think you could
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: get something for him. Even if it's like a low-level prospect,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I would rather see them do that than just non-tender
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: him completely. Now, I'll start off here with Endy. I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: do think they should non-tender Endy Rudd. And it's just
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: simply because I don't know what to expect from Andy Rodriguez.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I look at this very similar to what happened with
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Hunter Stratton a few years ago, where the Pirates non-tendered him,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: and then they immediately went to him and said, hey, man,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: we can't tender you a contract right now, but we
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: will sign you on a minor league deal, and we
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: can load it with incentives. So if you do make
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the team, you're good to go. But we can't have
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: you on our 40-man right now if... we know you're
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: going to be hurt for an extended period of time,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and you've been hurt pretty much every year you've been
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: in the major leagues for a sizable part of each season.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: So I would make that kind of arrangement with Endy.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I would not tender him a contract, but I would
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: go to him and say, hey, we got a minor
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: league deal for you. We still want you to be
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: a part of this plan. And if you do sign it,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: then like– If you prove us right, or if you
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: prove us wrong, essentially, and show that you're healthy and
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: show that you're productive, this could end up working out
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: better for you.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: In the long run.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: But you've got to get healthy. I just don't think
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: there's enough here, especially with the emergence of Ro Flores,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: because that's what Ro was supposed to... That's the value
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: that Endy provided was with his dad. Defensively, he was
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: kind of shaky, although he has a much higher ceiling
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: as far as defense is concerned compared to Flores. But
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that Flores is hitting... kind of lessens Andy's
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: value right then and there as well. Although, like, I mean,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: if health wasn't a concern, then I would absolutely non-tender
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Davis and just have Andy and Roe be my duo.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: But the reality is you can't bank on Andy Rodriguez
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to play more than, like, 70, 80 games a season,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: and even that seems like a stretch. So I look
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: at Endy as a guy I would non-tender and then
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: offer a minor league deal and let him play in
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the minor leagues, especially if there's going to be a lockout,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: let Endy get some reps when he's not on your
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: 40 man. So, yeah, that's how I see it. Either
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of you guys differ in that stance? No, no, no.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: I was, I mean, really not much to add to that, obviously,
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: you know, considering him and Henry, you know, what you said,
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: considering you don't know health wise, you know, teams do
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: it all the time.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: It's one of those things where even.
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: As a player, you know, some guys are like, you
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: know what, I'm more comfortable going back into the organization
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: that I'm with, you know, you know, or that I
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: was with, as opposed to, you know, let me go
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: to the minor leagues for 29 other teams. And if
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: I prove I'm healthy, there's still, there's nothing for them
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: to really go off of to be like, Oh, this
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: guy was really.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: In our plans.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: Like Indy at one point, as you mentioned, you know,
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: it was part of their plans, but you know, you're
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: only as good as you are if you're on the field.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: And that's why I was just going to say everything
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: you said, kind of, if they were to go around,
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: it would make more sense to do that route with
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Indy than Henry, just because as you said, Henry can
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: still provide you a few more of the things.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: And as I said, you're only as good as you
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: are when you're on the field. And unfortunately, you.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Know, the injury injuries have mounted up for Indy and
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: you know, it's not the pirate saying, Oh, we're not
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: tendering you a contract. We don't believe in you. It's just, Hey,
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: you know, you get healthy, you very well could be
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: a part of his team, but just to protect ourselves
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: and make our team better. And hopefully you join us.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: This is an option, but no, some guys are also like,
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: you know what? No, I'm going to go elsewhere. But
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: I was just going to say, I kind of just
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: piggybacking off, you know, that's definitely something that I could
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: see them getting ahead of. Cause you see it all
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: the time is, Oh man, they didn't tender him a contract,
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: but he signed right back on a minor league deal. And, um,
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: given the uncertainty, I didn't even think about that.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Of next year.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: You know, if he's not on the roster, that's him
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: getting reps. I didn't even think about that. So that
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: was another good point.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: He won't even be back till maybe May in 2027
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: with the labrum injury or the labrum surgery on his hip.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: And who knows if he's going to be able to catch,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: you know, like what level of involvement that can be
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: back with. So, yeah, I think Don Tendry.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Switch hitter too.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love him so much. But, yeah, I think
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: that would be the best move for the Pirates.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, we're going to take a quick break.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we're going to talk potential external
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: additions to the Pirates catching group here on Bucko Territory.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: Hey, enough key in the Foul Territory Network. We have
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: so many shows, so many schedules, so many hosts. It
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: is really hard to stay organized. That's why there's Housecall Pro.
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: If you work in the HVAC, if you work in plumbing,
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: if you work in construction, you work with your hands,
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: they'll organize your schedule.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: They'll make your bill paying easy. It's all right there
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: in Housecall Pro.
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, AJ, you can have a plumbing business, electrical, HVAC.
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: Housecall Pro will help keep you organized, estimates, invoices, the
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: next lead. So you can do the job, focus on
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: the task at hand, but still keep the business cranking.
• 11:11
  Speaker 6: And on average, pros using Housecall Pro save more than
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: eight hours per week On average, pros grow the monthly
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: revenue they generate through Housecall Pro by more than 35%
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: in their first year, and Housecall Pro is already trusted
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: by over 200,000 pros. Ready to save time and win
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: more jobs for a limited time only, FT listeners get 50%
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: off base plans for their first three months when you
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: head to HousecallPro.com slash foul. That's HousecallPro.com slash foul for 50% off.
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: After you sign up, they'll ask you where you heard
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: about them. Please support our show and let them know
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: we sent you.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: All right, so external additions for this catching group. I've
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: been very vocal as to saying this is the spot
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: where maybe you spend a little bit of money on.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Whereas everyone's kind of banging the drum for Brandon Lau,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: and I get it. I don't think that that's a
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: realistic possibility. And so when I look around, there's not
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of options at third base. They're kind of
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: set in a lot of other spots. But catcher, I think,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: could be an intriguing place to make an addition. So
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to bring up two names. One of them
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: is Hunter Goodman. He would have to be acquired via trade.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: The Pirates inquired about him this past season during the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: trade deadline. He had a pretty high price tag. And
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: then Ryan Jeffers is the top free agent catcher on
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the market this winter. Guys, I think both of these
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: players make a ton of sense. If you want to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: go with the free agent signing, I think you could
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: probably get Jeffers on something. I mean, probably cheaper than
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: what you got O'Hearn, but I would kind of structure
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: it like that. Just like a two year deal and
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: see what you could get there. You're getting a guy who,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you just look at his numbers here in
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: his last, however many seasons has been positive war. He's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: hit anywhere from like 14 to 21 home runs and,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: pretty much every season since 2021. And you have other
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: guys to back him up, and that's another right-handed bat
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: that you're kind of missing in this lineup. Goodman's even better.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: He's younger. He has a higher ceiling. But you're going
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to have to trade prospects for him. Mark, I'll ask you, or,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: you know what, actually, we'll start with Josh here. Josh, what,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, you saw firsthand what bringing in a veteran,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: difference-making catcher can do. to a ball club that's just
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that close away from reaching the playoffs. Is this a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: move that you think makes a lot of sense for
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the Pirates? And is it something that you think they
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: should be willing to go outside their comfort zone to
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: get done either through free agency or through making a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: big trade?
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: And as you mentioned, I've been a beneficiary of being
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: on the team that actually happened. And that acquisition was
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: not only good for The pitching staff were good for
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: the team. Somebody that understood the pressure of being behind
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: the plate, learning a staff. Controlling the running game was
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: big for us. Also, just being in a city that
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: was itching for another winner. Jeffers and even Goodman, as
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: you mentioned, being younger, these are two guys that can
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: make an impact behind the plate. which, you know, Russ
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: was able to make impact behind the plate, you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: even before the whole Cueto game. But, you know, it
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: definitely sends a message, you know, not only to the team,
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: but to the staff. Like, hey, you know, we want
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: to shore this thing up. Let's get with somebody that,
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: you know, understands how to attack big league hitters. That's
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: not learning on the fly. And, you know, somebody that
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: understands the pressures and everything that comes with being behind
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: the plate.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: It's more than just offense.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: And then, as you mentioned, his offensive numbers, what he's
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: done over the past couple of years, that would be
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: an added bonus for sure, you know, especially in a
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: lineup that has struggled or needs another right-handed bat. And
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: that is, I don't know what the splits are like
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: against lefties, but, you know, more than anything, I'm sure
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: both of those guys have been better than what they,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: what's been back there, you know, in the years past.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: But that catching position is the most important position in
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: my eyes for any team because that's kind of the
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: glue from, everything, offense, defense, pitching staff. So when you mentioned,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: you know, bringing in somebody that can, you know, kind
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: of help blend that, uh, I think you, I don't
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: want to say barking up the right tree, but you're on, you're,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: you're onto something cause that, that makes your team that
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: much better.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Mark, which one would you rather have Goodman or Jeffers?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, Goodman, it's hard to turn down a catcher
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: that just hit 41 home runs this past year and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: 31 homers the year before two time all-star, um, fantastic,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: fantastic player. Uh, but he's going to be very, very
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: expensive from a prospect capital standpoint. Uh, Rockies would probably be,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: be willing to move him. But again, that's going to
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: cost some big, big names that could look really painful
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: down the line. Um, as far as, uh, Jeffers though, um,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: actually really quick before I jump into that, uh, I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: just want to note, I think adding a catcher would
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: really help Raphael Flores jr. Next year. Uh, Flores jr.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Had a nine 24 OPS against left-handed pitching, uh, second
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: best on the pirates behind Esmeralda Valdez. I think if
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: you sign one of these big bats at catcher that
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: can take most of the reps and you just basically
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: play Flores against left-handed pitching, it could really just open
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: him up, make him more comfortable, make him a better player. Um,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: but as far as Ryan Jeffers goes, uh, It's going
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: to be interesting, this free agency. The Twins were considering
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: dealing him at the trade deadline. He was having a really,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: really good year as he's approaching unrestricted free agency. And
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: then kind of fell off in the second half. So
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: it was looking like the Twins might offer him a
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: one-year $ 23 million qualifying offer. That might not happen now.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So if he doesn't get a qualifying offer, I would
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: love for the Pirates to go after Ryan Jeffers. Just
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: because it feels like that's a great fit. I don't know.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: What do you think, Noah?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Jeffers, to me, is fine. Goodman, to me, I don't
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: give a damn what he costs in trade capital. Your
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: team is so close.
• 17:31
  Speaker 7: If there's ever a time to really push your chips
• 17:33
  Speaker 7: into the center of the table.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You do it now, and you can do that. I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: don't care about trading Edward Florentino if I'm the Pirates
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: because I know what Edward Florentino's ceiling is, and I
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: know people in that building love Edward Florentino. They don't
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: want to give him up unless it is for... A very,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: very good return.
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: But you're talking about a guy who had 40 home
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: runs last year. He's not even in arbitration yet. He
• 18:00
  Speaker 7: has two years of Major League service time. So you
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: add him onto the roster, you're not adding anything to
• 18:05
  Speaker 7: your payroll. You can still go out and spend money
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: on David Bednar if you want to get a high
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: leverage reliever.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: You could still theoretically bring back Brandon Lau. Imagine having
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Lau back. Finding someone to play third base, just getting
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: some defense there at third for just a little bit
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of money, and then you upgrade your catcher too? That
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: is game-changing stuff. And if it means you have to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: trade away a Levi Sterling, a Wyatt Sanford, an Edward Florentino,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and I get it. Prospects are important, especially to small
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: market teams. You look at a team like the Brewers.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: They've traded away some of their best players in recent years,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: or they let Willie Adamas leave in free agency. They
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: traded away. some great pitchers, some great bullpen arms, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: they still keep getting better and better every year, and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that's because they have a great farm system. But I
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: would argue, for the Pirates' sake, you don't have any
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: real difference makers coming up out of the minor leagues
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: this next year. They all arrived this year. Bubba Chandler
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: was a rookie this past season. Connor Griffin was a rookie.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Esmeralda Valdez, Roe Flores. Your rookie wave just arrived, and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you did a good job of.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Like bringing bets in and having like a Ryan O'Hearn here,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: having a Brandon Lau here and extending some of these
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: guys like Reynolds are, are earlier on in this process.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: So like you have it there where it's just like, dude,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: make one big move in this. Again, this allows you
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: to still be flexible with your finances. And I get
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that you're emptying out your trade capital, but this is
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the time to do it, man. You're, you're shortstop. is
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: 20 years old and he's extended for like nine more years.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: You've got Reynolds locked up. Like Skeens has only got
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: a couple more years here.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And Griffin's only costing $ 2 million this year, so you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: have flexibility there.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: This is the time to do it, man. He just
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: makes so much sense. He makes a position group better.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: hands down, and he gives you the biggest thing that
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: your offense was missing last year, which is right-handed hitting.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So if you don't bring back Brandon Lau, you're looking
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: around saying, okay, well, where are you going to get
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: 30 home runs?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Where's that production coming from?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you get it from the right side of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the plate, which is even better. Because if O'Neal Cruz
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: stays healthy, you have that from the left side of
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the plate already. You have Ryan O'Hearn, if he can
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: stay healthy. Cruz and O'Hearn, if they can just stay
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: healthy for a year, their full season stats will probably
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: equal out to what you're missing with Lau. And then
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you're going to get that offensive production from Goodman. I know.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I know I'm barking up a very tall tree right now.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: but they have prospects to go do it and go
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: get him in the Rockies. They're not looking for guys
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: that are probably going to come up and try to
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: help the team win next year. They're in the very infancy.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: of a rebuild, they're looking to acquire 18, 19-year-old guys
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: in high A, maybe scratching the surface on double A.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: That's where they are in this process. The Pirates, all
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: of their top prospects fall into that category. So this
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: is the time for me, this is the player, this
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: is the time to unload the clip and go all
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: in on this guy, because it's not just a win-now move.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Hunter Goodman can be a Pirate for another four years.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: So it's just, and if he doesn't age well, it's
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that sucks. But I mean, at some point you got
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: to make a little bit of an aggressive move and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: there's no one else out there that can check all
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the boxes that I just listed. Cost effective, right-handed power
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: bat fills the position of need, both short-term and long-term.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: That's worthy to me of making a very uncomfortable gamble
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: as far as trade acquisitions are concerned.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: And you didn't mention the one name that they, that,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Fans don't want to give up.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: You can get that without Seth Hernandez. Yeah, no, but
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: that's what I'm saying. Like, that would be the one
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: name that– And shoot, even if it.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Means, like, you throw in Braxton or somebody. Like, I mean,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: you can't throw– again, I'm not saying all of these names.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be all of them, right? It's
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: not going to be every prospect I just named plus
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a big leaguer. It could be some combination of it, though.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Man, oh man, there's just so much potential there. Find
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: a way to get it done. If it means giving
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: up one of your starting pitchers plus some prospects, or
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: if it means giving up a handful of your top prospects,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm a Pirates fan because your
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: window is now. Your window is now. And whenever Paul
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Skeens is gone, that window gets a little tighter because
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you don't know how good Seth Hernandez is going to be.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: There's no guarantee that anyone is going to keep doing
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: what they're doing, right? Evidenced by Steens' production this year.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: So this 2027 through 2029, this is when you really,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, have to capitalize, especially because you've got
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Griffin on the cheap, secured, still got O'Hearn here next year.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Reynolds is in decline, but I still think you can
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: get something out of him next season. Cruz is entering
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: his second year of arbitration. I mean, man, oh man,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you just got to, you got to do it now.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: If there's ever going to be a time to make
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: a big, big move. And it's kind of, it sounds funny, right? Yeah.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: And it's just, it's this guy or nobody, in my opinion,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: that you would do this for.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I think this is like the fourth time we've brought
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: up Hunter Goodman on this podcast. I know I've mentioned
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: him like before the season as a trade target, we
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: mentioned him like around the trade deadline. This move is,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: it just lines up so perfectly for the Rockies, for
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: the Pirates. Yeah, I would love to see it happen
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: as a Pirates fan.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take another quick break, then we
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: will round up the show when we get back here
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: on Bucko territory.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: It's time for Stock Up, presented by Agentic. Agentic is
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: giving fans a new way to support athletes and sharing
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: their success over the long term by building a platform
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: that lets fans invest in an athlete's future earnings, including
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the Pirates' own Esmeralda Valdez. So, Josh, we saw, we
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: mentioned Esmeralda Valdez earlier in our episode today, mashing against
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: left-handed pitching. But just let's talk really quick about, like,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: how much of a breakout did he have this year?
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Was that, you know, I don't think Pirates fans were
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: really expecting that much from Esmeralda Valdez. We mentioned maybe
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: trading him at one point for Lake Fokker. And then
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: he blew up in July. So can you just talk
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: about that meteoric rise that he had this year?
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he caught a lot of people by storm. I'm
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: not sure if he caught himself by storm. You know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: maybe this is something he expected of himself. But I
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: do remember, you know, just talking about him briefly, like, oh,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: you know, He's down in AAA, but, you know, he got,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: you know, a lot of guys that feel kind of
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: that role. But he came up and he was able
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: to take advantage of the role he was, you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: presented with and really took off.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: And you saw glimpses of what he can really do.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: And obviously, you know, he came back down to earth
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: as the season progressed. That's the game of baseball, making adjustments.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: But he definitely put himself on the scene and made
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: a name for himself to where, not only Pirates fans
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: were watching, other teams were making game plans to pretty
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: much not let pretty much him beat them.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: That right there is enough to go from a guy
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: that we potentially talked about being traded to, hey, circle
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: this guy's name on the lineup.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: He just became a fixture in the Pirates lineup and
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: really stepped up when a couple injuries happened. So, loved
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: what we saw from Esmeralda Valdez, and can't wait to
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: see what we see of him moving forward. And you
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: can find out how you can invest in the future
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: of athletes as they rise to the top. Learn more
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: at agenticsports.com. That's A-G-E-N-T-I-Q sports.com. Agentic, made for the love
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: of the game. This is a paid advertisement for Agentic Sports.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Investing involves substantial risk. Review the offering circular and investment
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: documents in the show notes.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, final thoughts as we wrap up another
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: episode of Bucko Territory.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Josh, you got anything? If not.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: No, other than, you know, I just wanted to hit
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: back on the point that, no, I think after analyzing,
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: I think you might have sold me on Hunter Goodman.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: So, you know, like, Ryan Jeffers obviously presents.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: That really veteran case, but, you know, everything that she presented,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: you know what, it's kind of hard to argue you're
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: very passionate.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: But it– no, it made sense, too, though. That's the
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: other thing.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Like, you can be passionate about a move, but, like,
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: everything you presented was like, yeah, everybody knows.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: The Pirates were that close this year.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Then, you know, guys that are able to come and
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: make an impact in the lineup, you sold me, Noah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, my final thought is just keep enjoying watching
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: this playoff baseball. It's been a fun postseason. Guardians storming
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: back was pretty crazy to see. And, yeah, we'll see
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: how it goes from there.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Small market teams can win. You just got to have
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: competent leadership. Before we head out, I want to remind
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: everyone to hit that subscribe button. If you haven't already,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: we're on a mission to 3,000 subs. Can't get there
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: without your help. Also, check out all of our stuff
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: at the Bucko Territory team store. He's Platinum Key. He's
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Josh Harrison. I'm Noah Hiles. We're all setting off saying
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: we're tuning in to another episode of Bucko Territory presented
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to you by the Foul Territory Network. Take care.