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Dishin' Dirt on "Representing a Buyer When Purchasing a For Sale By Owner" with Brad Allen · Dishin' Dirt with Gary Pickren

• 0:01
  Unknown: And welcome back to yet another outstanding an interesting episode of dition dirt with Gary pecker. And yeah, that's right. We're back for episode number two, which can only mean we didn't get cancelled after episode one. In fact, you can now find us on such quality platforms as Spotify, iHeartRadio and Stitcher. And coming soon, we're even going to be on Pandora, Amazon and Google, which just goes to prove they'll basically publish any crap if you just put it on their platforms.
• 0:30
  Unknown: Nevertheless, we appreciate them for doing so because now we can come to you in your car or at home or you're doing other things. Oh, this episode today, we're going to have my very good friend Brad Allen, who is the owner and broker in charge over at the art of real estate here in Colombia as well as in Greenville. And I think I might have called him my friend, which I'm not supposed to do out in public. So forget I mentioned that. But nevertheless, Brad and I will be dishing some dirt on how a real estate agent can represent a buyer purchasing a for sale by owner property, and the proper forms that need to get signed and some pitfalls and things they need to be aware of.
• 1:08
  Unknown: They have lots of great useful information for the real estate agent. We're also taking another look at another one of Blair Cato is Corona closing craziness. And there's still a lot more to talk about there.
• 1:21
  Unknown: And of course, we'll do my favorite episode, which is Gary's good news only. And this is where we're only going to discuss good economic real estate and Corona news. And we have lots and lots of great news out there to share with you today. Now, if you like our show, and don't want to go the way of some other crappy TV show that sticks around for a year, you fall in love with it, and then it disappears. I need you to like us, share us, subscribe to us, rate us, but most importantly, tell all your other friends about us so that they too can watch or listen rather, and enjoy our podcast. And don't forget, you can also still get our legal tips by going to Blair cato.com. You can go to the bottom of our website and sign up for our weekly video legal tip. And you can also go to YouTube and type in Blair Cato and see most of those. Lastly, if you got nothing else to do and know about other friends, you can follow me on Instagram at patron Gary. That's PSC k r e n d a r one. Now let's get to our guest, Brad Allen.
• 2:23
  Unknown: Hey, Gary, thanks for having me.
• 2:23
  Unknown: I've always thought you had a face for a podcast. So I really appreciate you having me.
• 2:28
  Unknown: Yes, I do face for radio, no doubt about it. So as you can tell, we really are friends.
• 2:31
  Unknown: We're known Brad Gosh, over 10 years now. But happy to be the attorney for your company or real estate. So other than the fact you own and operate the auto real estate, tell us a little bit about where you did what you do and where you come from.
• 2:44
  Unknown: Yeah, I've been the business what 16 years now, mainly in a broker kind of role. I was a 30 on a 34 NAR a couple years back one of the few in the state. And I love serving the realtor community either through the state, local or national organization, which I do a lot in. And I'm also a commissioner for the housing authority for the state. So I get to help with the low income housing projects here in South Carolina.
• 3:05
  Unknown: Oh, cool. I know this topics right up your alley, because you've dealt with some topics like this in the past. And as you and I talked about earlier, there's been a lot of recent studies out there that say about 90% of all buyers who buy a for sale by owner, which we call fizbo. In the business, about 90% of those sold by fizz bows are using a buyer's agent. So it seems like the market is tight as it is and how tight is the market right now?
• 3:28
  Unknown: Man?
• 3:29
  Unknown: It is ridiculous. I mean, obviously we know here in Colombia, we've got 114 100 active listings, maybe we had the highest sale number of houses in June ever in our MLS.
• 3:38
  Unknown: Greenville is just the same Charleston's even worse. So I mean, it is literally multiple offers for buyers on different houses every single day. So when you talk about 1400 houses, I think our normal market back in the day was what 3000 4000 houses, so is extremely tight. So I think more and more agents are going to run across situations where their buyer can't find a house being listed into the MLS and so they're looking anyway, yeah, and you're running across at yourself, you're gonna have more fizz bows too, because if there's that type of inventory, you don't really need an agent. If you can sell you do need an agent. But you don't need an agent to get a contract. Right? You need the agent for the facilitation, right and then negotiating and try to make sure it's priced right and all that we highly recommend you always get an agent I could tell we could literally spend this entire time talking about horror stories of fizz bows that have gone bad because they didn't have agents.
• 4:24
  Unknown: Yeah. And so we totally believe that. So I believe as I've always said that if you're going to represent a buyer, and there's a fizbo involved, you've got to be extra cautious because everybody's looking at what you do the sellers already not really wanting an agent involved. So they're kind of worried about it and think they're being taken advantage of. And so a couple issues I want to talk about today is number one, what duties you owe to your buyer to how do you work within that framework of agency if you don't step out of that framework, three, which is also very important. How do you ensure your commission is being paid and how who's going to pay that? And then lastly, how do we stay legal in terms of ethics?
• 5:00
  Unknown: In terms of the realtors association or with our statute, on trading parties, honestly and fairly, so let's jump real quickly into this. And let's look at that very first issue of duty to our buyers. So tell me just start at the very beginning, you got a buyer that you represent your under agency with, and they have found the house they want to buy, but unfortunately, it's a fizbo.
• 5:17
  Unknown: What what what do we got to look at? What are we worried about?
• 5:21
  Unknown: Where do we go from there? Yeah, so this should not be a conversation you have on the fly. This is all about setting expectations. This takes you all the way back to broker disclosure, and then buyer agency, you need to be having this conversation at that point, not when they find their dream home. That is a for sale by owner. And I've real quick, I know that one of the reasons my E and O every year, they asked me how many dual agencies we do, and how many for sale by owners do we not represent but go against because that is the most liability, you're going to run into those two situations. So obviously, if he knows ask him, that's an insurance thing. They want to make sure that we don't do too many of them. But, um, so it starts with the buyer agency, because we all know in compensation, there's four different types, right? There's two types of brokerage representations. There's a retainer and then there's a Oh man, I forget the other one, I never do it. So don't really matter. The brokerage one, a lot of agents like to take the easy route and just check I will get paid through the transaction, whatever they offer me on the MLS, which is not a good way of doing it's not but it's an easy conversation cuz you don't want to explain what you need to explain. The other one on the new buyer agency form the one right above it says what your fee is. And if they buy for sale by owner, all that works. So my agents through training, explain that every single time. And so what we tell our buyers is listen, if you buy something through the MLS, I already have a compensation agreement through the MLS. That's the point of it.
• 6:36
  Unknown: I can show it. I know what I'm being paid. And I get paid through that process. But if you find a for sale by owner, I need to be the first one you tell.
• 6:47
  Unknown: Because what happens and I've had several stories like this to where our buyer goes to an open house on a Sunday to for sale by owner they go through it. They call me on Monday and say, hey, I want to buy the house. You're like what house like is the for sale by owner? Well, once you go through it yesterday, okay, let me call him Hey, mister, for sale by owner, are you willing to pay my fee? They're like, what do you do? And you're like, I represent them? Well, you weren't here. You didn't find it. They drove by on their own.
• 7:10
  Unknown: We had a great conversation. I love your clients. Um, yeah, I'll pay you half of what you're asking me. And now you're stuck, because it's not what you were expecting or what you wanted.
• 7:18
  Unknown: And now you're at odds with your boss. Yeah, because we fill in that one part. And it says my commission is three X's or whatever it might be, you're expecting three x's and somebody's offering you x and a half, you're not happy, right?
• 7:29
  Unknown: And it doesn't look good to go ask your buyer to make it out, right. But under the agreement, the way you get it signed, the buyer is contractually obligated to pay that two years away. But it's very difficult to go after your client and say, pay me the one and a half percent that the seller is not paying me the one point let me stand in the way of your dream home. Right. And now you got to pay me out of pocket and haven't been able to find your house because there's only 1400 and then on a MetroCard. So what we do as a company and I feel like a lot of companies probably do it this way is you Hey, Mr. buyer, if you find a for sale by owner, I get to call them first 99.9% of time, they will pay my fee, as long as I have the conversation with it. Which if 90% of peep for sale by owners are being sold to with agents with buyers and agents, then they're probably willing to pay the fee. So I call him and say I have a client that's interested, would you be willing to pay my fee? And I go, absolutely cool.
• 8:17
  Unknown: Next step, this is the hard one, they got to kind of pump the brakes. We send a compensation agreement or some people refer to as a one time showing agreement and all it says is seller, you're agreeing to pay me a percentage if my buyer buys your house. That's where a lot of times because here's a little secret for sale by owners thinker always trying to screw they think hey, you're you know this stuff, you're trying to get one over on me. So we sent it to him, they go Well, I'm not gonna sign that. Well, the problem is, if you don't they walk through it, they talk too much. They like it. The facility owner knows that. And now your commission becomes negotiable.
• 8:50
  Unknown: You're back to square one, which is not a fun place to be. So we sent you at odds with your client, which puts you in duties at odds with your fiduciary duties. Yes.
• 8:56
  Unknown: Good conversation.
• 8:59
  Unknown: No, not at all. So we get him to sign it. A lot of times you have questions because like, I don't want to sign this. And all you have to explain to him obviously get your broker involved if you need to, this is where I come in. A lot of times, that's explained to them. If you accept the offer, you're gonna pay don't take the offer if you don't like it, but like if you accept it, the fee is built in.
• 9:13
  Unknown: But you also have to explain to them through agency disclosure that you do not represent them that for sale by owner is a customer they are not my client even though they're paying me.
• 9:23
  Unknown: So you've got to do it, then go look at the house. I know it's extra steps. We're all busy. We want to take the easy route because we're trying to get to baseball games, or just go home.
• 9:31
  Unknown: But you've got to hit pause or you will not get paid. I'm having one with one of my agents closing tomorrow. She is season two. She is smart. She did everything right. Her clients went AWOL, and she is getting 1% and she is taking it on the chin like she has no other option. So there's a couple things I wanted to hit on in that part as well. So first of all, as you know that if you represent a buyer and you're under agency and the buyer wants to see a for sale by owner, and you know we have no choice but to show it correct. We can't refuse the show and in fact there's a Colorado lawsuit Or somebody actually got sued because they were buying a house in a neighborhood after they bought the house, they found out the next door neighbor's house was for sale by owner substantially less than what they paid for. And it was a superior house. And so they sued their agent saying you didn't show me this for sale by owner, because you knew that out, you would get paid on this one, but not on that one, right, which may not have been true, true, but it looked bad. And so the real estate company was paying a lot of money on that. So that's one thing I think everybody should know, right off the bat.
• 10:27
  Unknown: The second thing you need to understand also is that when you spoke first speak to that seller, you still have a duty to disclose agency to them, when the conversation turns self interest regarding one's financial ability to sell the house or what they're looking for, etc. So you've got to have that conversation, even if it's on the phone. Yep. And then one of the other issues that before we move on to our next part is in 2017, we up update itself conduct code for real estate agents 40 to 57, right. And now you have a limited duty of confidentiality with that consumer with that customer in the past when you sat down with a for sale by owner, and they had diarrhea of the mouth, as always call it and say, hey, I want to list it for 200. But don't tell anybody I'll take 180 right, your duty of loyalty to your client requires you to go tell them hey, this guy said you take 180. So let's offer 170 Sure. Now when he says that you can't disclose that to your client. So as you properly mentioned earlier, you need to have that conversation with yourself. Explain agency, I don't represent you. But that does come difficult doesn't it becomes expansion if they've agreed to pay your fee. Right?
• 11:33
  Unknown: Now they think you work for them. Right? So how do you guard against that setting expectations?
• 11:39
  Unknown: So a lot of times what I do is I say hey, I'm gonna send this compensation agreement over. I here's the disclosure, I had lots of for sale by owners not signed the disclosure, right. So I don't know, talk to your broker, do whatever you want. I tell my agents just describe on their gave to them at this date.
• 11:53
  Unknown: You know, they just refuse to sign. But also go, Hey, guys, you might want to call one of your attorneys and get them to explain this to you. So that kind of sets the severity with the seller, because I'm taking off amigo and I'm sending you this by law, I have to give this to you. But if you have any questions, you're going to need to console consult an attorney, I've got a couple I can recommend if you want to do that. But I keep pushing them somewhere else. I don't answer the questions. I usually say that's not my I represent the buyer. I can't tell you that.
• 12:15
  Unknown: But you're right. They're paying the check. They think they own you.
• 12:18
  Unknown: Right, which I think we've kind of covered the payment commission. One thing I've seen quite a bit and contracts now and is somewhat a problem. But it's not. But it's just not the best practice is that I've seen that the buyer and the seller will sign a contract that says seller agrees to pay my agents commission. Right. And I've had people say that they don't think that's right or proper in ways it isn't ways it's not because remember, as an agent, you're not a part of the contract. So you have no ability to enforce that against the seller, because your seller isn't in a contract.
• 12:44
  Unknown: Now with the way you're talking about on getting the buyer representation agreement signed, it could be valid, because what happens is the seller has to agree to pay or the buyer is agreed to pay the commission.
• 12:58
  Unknown: Right? Have you your commission, but now they've asked a seller as part of these contractual agreements to do it. Sure. And so that works fine. Yeah. So what I'm not going to do it, yeah, I wouldn't wait to the contract to write in that 3%, or whatever it is. Because whatever it might be, because now they're going to try and negotiate that you've got to protect, I feel like you've got to protect your commission, whatever it is, before house negotiations get into prime, it's way too late to start at that point. So the other thing we'll talk about real quick before we end here is agency duties. And agents, by your very nature are helpful. Pete Yep, that's your job. Yep. To get a strong contract over that finish line with repairs, inspections, loan issues, whatever it is. So what are you worried about as a broker with your agents, you know, messing up our fiduciary duties to our buyers, and saying, you know, maybe on accident advising the seller, because it's very easy to do when they're like, oh, Brad, I know your buyer wants X, Y and Z like what what can we do to make this work and you go this, you know, that's not you. It's like, hey, everything's important.
• 13:58
  Unknown: You've always got that where so a seller's agent goes? What's more important to your buyer commission or a closing cost or, or price? That's a trap? I can't answer that. It's, it's both right? What both or come back with something, and I'll take it to them. So I feel people overstep their bounds, we're gonna get in trouble for implied agency with a for sale by owner, or you're breaking your fiduciary, with your buyer. And eventually it will be found out and there'll be a couple years from now, expensive.
• 14:23
  Unknown: And that could be the problem is that your buyer now thinks because the seller is paying your commission, and now you're favoring the seller. So you really can only do those duties that you can do to a customer, which is provided in the forms, help them fill out the forms, but when they say, Well, what should I counter? Yeah, I can't tell you what you should count or I represent the buyer. If you tell me the number. I'll type it in the form. But that's all I can do describe. And I think that what your your point is, is that you got to be clear with that seller that even though you're paying my commission now, or whether they're not paying a commission either way, I represent the buyer, I don't represent you, right. Which brings us to the final point which is Article One of the realtor code which is also basically Based on 4057 350 of the South Kona code are actually the other way around the codes based on that article, you have a duty of honesty and fair dealing, when you don't feel the other party, right. And so you've got to be super careful when you represent a buyer and not representing the seller in the transaction so that that seller feels that you're being fair and honest, is that when you use words like this a standard or this is just boilerplate language, or this is the way we always do it. Or you're making too much out of this. Yeah. Now, it's kind of pushing over the edge, you've got to just be very non committal, I can't advise you on that. I can't counsel you on that. In what is advice you told me if you always tell him when they start having questions about the contract and other things that they need to talk to an attorney 100% like, it's not, that's not my realm. And honestly, that's my answer on everything, even my own clients.
• 15:45
  Unknown: Like if you don't understand this, I'm explaining the best of my ability, but you need to seek legal guidance, because this is a contract and you're entering with somebody else. And I also think one thing you got to remember is setting the expectations continuing that with your buyer. I had an instance last year where my agents, she was representing a buyer and a for sale by owner transaction, and the buyer got mad at her, because he's like, you're not representing my best interest. You're being chummy with the seller. And I had to explain to him because I knew what happened. She is actually representing your best interest.
• 16:12
  Unknown: But we have to deliver this and in an emotional way to the seller, we can't just come in and say You're lying. We want this and to move on. Because there's no buffer on the for sale by owner side. So we have to be very delicate on how we do this. So we get you what you want. That's a huge point, there is no buffer to me.
• 16:25
  Unknown: That's the number one reason I like to have an agent involved in the transaction. Because the two parties are emotional, the agent should not be and they can talk business and takes the person out. And that's the biggest feature that you're missing in this when that other side is not represented. Now you're having to go with kid gloves versus saying Come on, you know, this isn't going to fly. Right. So that's it. All right. Well, cool. I think we've covered all of the things we need to hit on that commission, how to get paid the duties, make sure you stay in your agency framework and treat all parties Honestly, I don't think it'll be a good transaction. Yeah, tell it shouldn't be everybody should be at least happy at the closing table or both equally pissed off.
• 16:59
  Unknown: Fantastic. All right, man, thank you so much for being here on that topic. Thanks. Alright, so with me now is Jordan Stallings.
• 17:06
  Unknown: Jordan is our law partner here at Blair Cato that covers our and runs our Lexington office.
• 17:10
  Unknown: And one of the things that Jordan does every year is that he keeps up with all of the counties that have issued their tax bills and those habits. So welcome to our podcast. Jordan.
• 17:22
  Unknown: Thanks here.
• 17:24
  Unknown: So tell me and tell everybody what counties are currently out right now with tax bills.
• 17:30
  Unknown: We have seven out as of today.
• 17:30
  Unknown: Lexington County came out on Tuesday. That was the big one for us. Anybody in the Upstate?
• 17:37
  Unknown: Probably concerned with Pickens County. We also have Chester, Florence, York, saluda and Lancaster. Now, when will these other counties come out that we're waiting on throughout October?
• 17:49
  Unknown: We're not sure exactly. But we know October is the month.
• 17:53
  Unknown: Okay. And and last year? I know some of them came out on the last day of the month. That was quite an adventure.
• 17:58
  Unknown: Yes. And we have no idea if they're going to do that again, but they may.
• 18:02
  Unknown: Hopefully they won't because if they do we have to stop the closings and re prorate taxes and it's quite a mess on the last day of the month. No doubt.
• 18:07
  Unknown: So how are you saying that the tax bills coming out now here in October? How does that affect the closings that we have scheduled going forward?
• 18:16
  Unknown: I had one Tuesday morning Lexington County bills that just came out $16,000 tax bill for this property. It was taxed at 6% because of the current owner.
• 18:24
  Unknown: new buyers going to be a 4% owner occupant. That new buyer was getting a credit from the seller, but is now paying a credit to the seller for the rest of this year. Because that$16,000 tax bill is now on the seller side to pay that $16,000 tax bill a $3,000 credit now on the buyers closing cost crediting the seller so it changed closing costs in a big way seller got less money buyer had to bring more money and say I do think that's a huge point because if your sellers at 6%, and you're gonna buy the property at 4% under a lot of our contracts in the state you prorate based on last year's tax bill, so there'll be huge credit from the seller to the buyer tax rate most tax preparations are final and most of our contracts in the state. And so the buyer gets this big, big credit. And as you're saying it what would happen now is that you have to go ahead and collect the 6% tax bill from both the buyer and the seller.
• 19:26
  Unknown: That's right and even a 4% 4% if the tax bill valuation went up this year, which we know some counties are doing revaluations in their five year changes. The tax bill might be a couple $100 more this year than it was last year. So the durations might change to just be higher across the board from both parties now because the tax bill has been really so don't want to overcomplicate it but just to simplify it, the numbers are going to change bottom line.
• 19:53
  Unknown: So every agent needs to be going back and redoing their net sheet whether on the buyer side or seller side when those kind of changes bills come out, they can go on the county website and actually get the real tax bill.
• 20:04
  Unknown: That's right. So as of right now, those counties I just named Lexington County being one of them, you can go right to the county's website, see what the 2020 tax bill is?
• 20:13
  Unknown: And are you seeing any problems?
• 20:13
  Unknown: And or have you seen problems in the past with a seller where the seller, lender may have already paid tax bills prior to the closing and things of that nature?
• 20:24
  Unknown: Yes, although it's a little more rare here in October, once we get into November, that's when it becomes a big problem.
• 20:30
  Unknown: Because in the escrow account, the tax bills are going to get paid, it shows is coming out of escrow account for the buyer, or excuse me, the seller that shows is coming out but it doesn't show it the county is being paid. So we're gonna have a gap in time where the county shows the bill is due. And their lender shows that they've already paid it. Well, until the county says it's been paid. We have to collect it. So really, it looks like the seller, as of closing is paying the tax bill twice. Although Yes, they'll get reimbursed but it's it's a mess.
• 21:02
  Unknown: Because if it's a $16,000 tax bill, like the one I just had, think about that that's $32,000 that's now gone that the seller has to wait to get their money back, then you got sellers who won't be too happy when they believe they're paying their taxes twice, or and then have to wait months to get the money back, which the county sometimes can take months to send it back.
• 21:21
  Unknown: Right. But let's keep in mind once a tax bill is released, it is a lien on title. So don't ever forget that everybody it's it's a lien on title that has to be paid. Otherwise, a buyer's taking a property subject to a lien that hasn't been paid, which we don't do. That's what we're here for is closing.
• 21:38
  Unknown: Alright, well, Jordan, thanks for all the good news or update and all the good news on taxes and hope you'll come back and update is one other tax bills come out. And that brings us to my very, very favorite part of this podcast and that is the corona crazing closings. And this week's episode is really a sweet story happened just this week. Matter of fact, I did a closing for a couple. The gentleman was 96 year old Bishop in his church. His wife was 89 year old Bishop in the church as well. Because a Corona we went outside and did the closing bother car and I had a wonderful conversation with these beautiful people. And at the end of the closing, I looked at the husband and I said Bishop I have a question. I said you have to tell me how many years have y'all been married? I would bet 5060, maybe 70 years? How many years has it been? The bishop looked at me and goes, would you believe five? Do the math real quick on that 96 years old. He got married at 91 years old. So I looked at the bishop I said well, Bishop, you sound like a player and he said What is that?
• 22:47
  Unknown: And I said, Well, you married a younger woman she's a lot younger knew she's seven years younger than us. And he said that was his third marriage. The other two had already pre deceased him and he didn't plan on going anywhere anytime soon.
• 22:58
  Unknown: So it's a great positive message for all of us as we deal with Corona crazy closes.
• 23:06
  Unknown: Now let's move right into our Gary good news. Only in this week, we have quite a bit of good news both On the economic front, as well as in the COVID probably more in the COVID than in the economic front. But let's start with the economy. First large john of the National Association realtor. He's the chief economist. He has said that he sees no slowdown in the fall in terms of volumes of units. Nor does he see any decrease in prices. He expects crisis prices to continue to rise. In South Carolina we had a 7% increase in house prices last year this year. And they're expecting another 7% increase in pricing for 2021. Now Money Magazine interviewed non experts on the economy as it related to housing. And all nine said they expect the strong market to continue at least to the end of the year well into 2021. Now as far as COVID, there's a lot of good news on the horizon out there. First of all, wl TX here in Columbia, South Carolina, had an article on their website that talked about the COVID transmission right. This is the rate at which the virus transmits from one person to the other. Just a few months ago, South Carolina was the third worst in the world. But today we are the best in the United States meaning that least number of cases per infected person not spreading as bad in South Carolina as it is everywhere else in the United States. The World Health Organization also mentioned earlier last week that they they believe about 10% of the world has now been infected by the COVID virus. Now while that number may scare you, because that means 750 million people have had the COVID virus.
• 24:41
  Unknown: 1 million people around that number have died. That makes the infection fatality rate 0.13%.
• 24:54
  Unknown: What that means is that of every person in the world that got infected with a COVID virus Only 0.13% of those people in fact died. That number also might be a number that scares you. But when you compare that to the flu over the last 10 years, it is identical to the flu numbers. It is not as deadly anymore as they believe and that is a direct result of the fantastic work our doctors and frontline people are doing in the hospital. Another two articles I did want to share with you. One of them is by a New York Times our writer America's Coronavirus recovery, apparently happening faster than expected science and health reporter Donald G. McNeil argues the Coronavirus death toll in the United States standing at a little over 200,000 is far below the initial 2.2 million Americans initially projected to die by mid October. I think a lot of people have forgotten about that, that they were telling us regardless what we do, 2.2 million Americans are going to die. experts are saying with genuine confidence that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected. Pharmaceutical treatments for the disease have expanded antiviral drugs such as rim despre. I pronounce that wrong, I'm sorry. And steroids that they have prescribed have proven very effective in treating the virus. And those hospitalized are less likely to die from the disease. That is fantastic news any way you look at it. Now the last article I want to talk about a great article by Michael foul t H. au.
• 26:21
  Unknown: And you can find him on the internet September 10 was his article, it's got three points he makes in this article number one, if you remove New Jersey, Michigan, New York and Pennsylvania from the number of COVID deaths, New York, Michigan, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, if you just remove those four states, along with Illinois and Massachusetts, if you remove those states, the COVID-19 never reaches the CDC threshold for an epidemic.
• 26:51
  Unknown: Remember, they defined CDC defines an epidemic as fatalities not based on cases.
• 26:54
  Unknown: So if you remove some of those northern Midwest states, then it doesn't get to the level on the remaining 40 odd states. The next thing he mentions in this is the median age of fatalities in the United States is now over 80 years old. In fact, the 10 countries where data for age, median age and fatalities is available, not a single one of them is less than 80 years old.
• 27:17
  Unknown: And in Sweden, the median fatality rate is now 86. So that means people under 80 seem to be in a lot safer situation. And then lastly, what for fatalities and counting of fatalities.
• 27:31
  Unknown: We've also found out over the last couple months, that anyone dying with a diagnosis with the virus is getting counted as dying from it regardless how much of the case they had or whether they died of something else. This also includes motorcycle motorcycle accidents as suicides and gunshot wounds.
• 27:46
  Unknown: And what they found is that the standard practice now is anyone that died within 60 days of a positive PCR test from COVID-19 is counted as a fatality regardless of how they died or if someone else even killed them. So what we're finding there is that the death numbers appear to be higher than they truly are. So again, more good news on the Coronavirus front. I hope everybody enjoyed this week's version of dition dark with Gary Petrin. We will be back next week. Yes, we're going to go now to a weekly podcast as everybody has been asking for more episodes. So we will do a weekly podcast instead of a bi weekly. Please like us, share us rate us but most importantly come back and listen to us again next week when our guests will be Patrick O'Connor and had an omen of Coldwell Banker as I talk about how to use video to market properties. Until next week. See you then