Latest / Go Wildly Podcast / Ep. 5 | Wildfire Season Special: Grit, Chainsaws, and the American Dream

Transcript

Ep. 5 | Wildfire Season Special: Grit, Chainsaws, and the American Dream · Go Wildly Podcast

0:00
He's like, hey, do you guys want to be firefighters?
0:02
I went home that same night. I looked up the companies and I
0:05
just applied everywhere. They're like, yeah, jump in the
0:07
truck, let's go. I just went and I piled sticks,
0:11
cut sticks, burnt sticks for years like I didn't.
0:15
All life is sticks. There's helicopters, people
0:18
screaming. There's a guy in the corner
0:19
crying, spitting, crying, snotting.
0:24
But man, you ain't ever been so constipated in your life.
0:26
If you live here, you love the forest, you know, Like, so we're
0:29
fighting nature and it's going to win every time.
0:33
But don't be a Dick bag. Like, listen to Smokey Bear.
0:38
Put your fires out. All right, y'all, this episode
0:44
of the Go Wildly podcast is a fire season special.
0:47
We're heading straight into fire season here.
0:50
And if you live anywhere near the Pacific Northwest, in the
0:53
Pacific Northwest or know anything about the Pacific
0:55
Northwest, you feel that. So Emily and I sat down with
0:58
somebody who lives it, breathes it, and fights that shit head
1:02
on. Meet Miguel Narvais, a type one
1:05
federal hotshot firefighter that is elite level wildland
1:09
firefighter, chainsaw slinging, Ridge hiking, smoke eating kind
1:12
of elite. Let me tell you what.
1:14
Born in Mexico City, raised across the United States and now
1:18
rooted here in the Rogue Valley, Miguel's American dream came
1:21
with grit and a hell of a lot of flame.
1:23
We're going to talk about how his childhood shaped him, how he
1:26
earned his citizenship to even be eligible for this work and
1:29
his dream job, what it takes to get on a fire and how the
1:32
wildland world operates from the inside.
1:34
Also on our hike out of this killer spot where Miguel took us
1:37
in the Rogue River, Siskiyou National Forest, we talk about
1:40
all the wild and insane fire stories.
1:43
So don't miss that extended pod vlog on our YouTube channel
1:47
which will be out tomorrow. It's raw, it's real, and this is
1:50
a tribute to the people that are holding that frontline all fire
1:53
season. Let's get in.
1:54
Hey how y'all? It's me Heather in editing.
1:57
As I'm editing here I am noticing that the 1st 40 minutes
2:01
ish have a little bit of white noise static in the background
2:04
so please disregard that. I'm still not 100% sure of what
2:07
caused that, but it stops after the first battery break.
2:11
And please hang in there because this is an Uber special episode.
2:15
It is such a good one. I am so proud and excited to
2:20
share it with y'all. Don't forget to like and review.
2:24
Do it right now. Stop it, give it.
2:26
Give the Wildly podcast some love.
2:28
OK. Thank you.
2:29
Enjoy. We've made it to our summit of
2:33
this adventure at the top of Taylor Creek, Taylor Creek
2:37
Falls. So let's dive into who?
2:40
Who are you, Miguel? Where did you come from?
2:43
Why are we here today? My name is Miguel.
2:46
I was born in Mexico. My parents are both teachers.
2:50
My dad's a professor, college professor, and my mom is a
2:54
preschool teacher now, but she was a high school teacher and he
2:58
was in school going for his PhD. When he moved up to Michigan,
3:04
that's when we moved into the States because I was born in
3:06
Mexico and by. Keep going.
3:08
You're. Fine, 1998, I believe when I was
3:10
four years old, we moved up here and from then I've been here.
3:15
We moved from Michigan to Texas to New York to New Mexico and
3:21
the span of 13 years. All for teaching jobs.
3:27
Yeah, so my dad got his PhD at Michigan State, and from then we
3:30
he moved the family a few times. And then by the time I got to
3:34
college, you know, it was pretty much just, I was, I wasn't
3:38
alone, but it was, I was free to do my own thing, right?
3:42
Like I went to my first year in college was Saint Bonaventure in
3:44
Western New York. I didn't do so well with that.
3:49
So I ended up just transferring because there was no way that I
3:51
could have stayed over there to have the money.
3:52
I didn't have the job to stay there by myself.
3:55
So I'm ended up moving to New Mexico with him to his new job.
3:58
I was like 17 years old, eighteen or something like that,
4:02
and that was the last time I moved with the family from
4:05
there. That must have been like 2012
4:07
and I went to I never finishing college there and spending a
4:11
couple years after college there.
4:13
And then after that I moved to Oregon and I've been here since.
4:17
What brought you to Oregon? The job, OK.
4:20
So yeah, and that's pretty much the segue into what I do.
4:25
I think I told you guys about how I found my job.
4:30
I went to school for psychology, so it was completely different,
4:34
you know? It was interesting just.
4:38
My life's just been kind of complex and I don't really even
4:42
know where to start. And I don't know how much is
4:45
relevant either, like the complexity of it.
4:47
I feel like my whole life has been complex so that in my adult
4:50
life I've been able to simplify. It, you know, like.
4:52
Subtract, subtract everything that doesn't matter and finally
4:57
come to, you know, this stable, simple life that I have now.
5:01
And I'm finally like chef's kiss pretty much.
5:04
And that's, that's finally where I feel like I'm at, you know,
5:06
like it's been shaking off complexity after complexity
5:09
after complexity. And that's where I'm at now.
5:12
What? What happened?
5:13
Some of those complexities, Everything's relevant.
5:15
You can give us a little. So the most important complexity
5:19
of my life is my country of birth, being a Mexican.
5:26
And I mean, I'm proud of that, but being a first generation
5:31
Mexican in in America these days isn't as easy as, I don't know,
5:36
just anything else. But, you know, I hate to say
5:40
that anybody had it less hard than I did.
5:42
And I'm not saying that it was the hardest for me either, but
5:45
it it has its own difficulties, you know, being, first of all,
5:53
Spanish speaking, moving halfway across the world and still being
5:58
a child like a bait, a four year old.
6:00
I have no clue. First of all, like, I think
6:03
there's something to be said about stability in a child's
6:05
life, especially in their early in their early life, you know,
6:09
when they're learning everything about themselves.
6:10
About the world. And I think it's conducive for
6:14
them to have some stable to look at, you know, like these are the
6:16
truths of life. And this is what my parents are
6:18
teaching me. And from then on, they can grow
6:20
into their own human being. But when you subtract that from
6:23
them, it it gives them a little less idea of like what's good,
6:28
what's bad, what's what's definite, what isn't.
6:31
And I think that was. A very big.
6:35
Question in my head, like, what is?
6:38
And like I had no clue. I moved countries, I had no
6:42
friends, had no language. And that was just a start.
6:45
And then we moved three times after that.
6:48
So finally, like every place I thought that I was getting a
6:50
foothold in, I had to move societies like complete
6:55
community switch, which again, you probably have friends that
6:59
you grew up with all your life, right?
7:01
And the sense of we've. Known each other since 6th
7:04
grade. And that's super important.
7:06
And and that was another thing that I missed out on, just being
7:10
a loner. The new kid.
7:13
Yeah, the new kid. Constantly the new kid and and
7:16
even to a deeper degree like being a new kid from another
7:20
country and. Did other students think you
7:23
were like an exchange student? Yeah, and they thought I was
7:27
everything. Luckily, when I went to
7:28
Michigan, it was there was a, it was a college town, so there was
7:33
a big international student community.
7:36
So where we moved in immediately was this big apartment complex,
7:40
like sprawling apartment complex of a lot of international
7:42
students and their families. It's called Spartan Village in
7:45
East Lansing, MI and it's it's pretty, it's pretty big.
7:47
I couldn't even tell you how big it was, but a lot of apartments
7:50
and a lot of families and most of us were international
7:53
students like from all over the place, a lot all over the place.
7:56
So that was like a really welcome place to be.
8:00
It was actually like, to this day, Michigan is probably my
8:03
second favorite place to have ever lived in.
8:06
And after here. After here, there's nothing that
8:08
compares to here, but like I've always throughout my life, I'm
8:12
just like, oh, I'd like to go back to Michigan and check it
8:14
out one day because I had a really good experience there.
8:16
Really pleasant. I met a lot of pleasant people,
8:17
people that were like me and. Like we saw eye to eye.
8:21
And so within this American community, there's a small
8:25
international students community that was pretty tight knit.
8:28
And among that community there was a smaller community of
8:32
Latinos. And we would get together and
8:34
we'd have parties and, and so that was my first community and.
8:39
That's how it first started. Did you have siblings that you
8:44
were able to like ground with and have as friends and?
8:48
So that was probably like my like my saving grace, a brother
8:52
and a sister. And we're still tight to this
8:55
day. Me and my brother are like best
8:56
friends. Yeah.
8:57
Did they live here? Yeah, my brother just recently
8:59
moved to Portland. Oh cool.
9:01
Just very recently, like 3 years ago, he graduated college.
9:04
I brought him out here once like cuz I, that was all out here by
9:08
myself, just me, by myself and now jealous.
9:10
But before it was just myself for no reason.
9:13
Everybody was like, do you have family out here?
9:15
Dude? What are you, What are you doing
9:16
out here? I was just like, I'm just
9:19
living, doing my job and I wanted to bring some kind of
9:22
family over. So I had him visit and it took
9:24
him like one visit and he was sold out.
9:27
I'm coming out here with you bro.
9:28
And he looked for an apartment and he found it pretty fast.
9:33
He got a job and he's been important ever since.
9:35
Cool. And now he's in nursing school
9:37
so hopefully he won't bring him down at Southern Oregon cuz
9:41
Oregon is fine in the north but it'd be cool to have him here
9:45
like Roseburg, OR. Something closer?
9:46
Yeah, closer to hang out. And what's your sister?
9:49
Do my sister is just graduated college like 2 years ago and
9:53
she's working for the parks in Macomb, IL OH.
9:56
Cool. So she's still, she's kind of in
9:57
the outdoor world, too. Yeah, she.
9:59
Yeah, surprisingly so. They both went to this school in
10:03
Silver City, NM, called Aldo Leopold.
10:05
And it's like. Influenced by a great outdoor
10:09
explorer. It's a it's charter school based
10:11
out of Silver City, NM and I don't know the intricacies of
10:14
charter schools, but I know that there specifically was like
10:17
heavily outdoor based. A lot of their learning
10:19
experience was like go out and do trail work.
10:22
Like the community service in the summertime was doing trail
10:25
work. And like even like the math
10:27
classes were somehow attached to the outdoors.
10:30
So like, they were already very like aware of the outdoors, not
10:36
only through their charter school like beforehand.
10:40
Like I was saying, like this community of of Latinos would
10:43
get together, have barbecues, we'd go camping.
10:46
We'd go to the lakes in Michigan.
10:49
We'd. Oh shit, hold up, the camera
10:52
battery died. So while we get that swapped
10:54
over, let's do a little mandatory a wilderness PSA slash
10:58
intermission slash. Hey, while we got you here, so
11:01
let's talk about fire. Not the sexy candlelit kind.
11:04
The kind that burned down whole forests and entire towns.
11:08
The Pacific Northwest is entering fire season, y'all, And
11:11
if you know somebody who camps, hikes, Rd. trips, or even lives
11:15
near a pine cone, you've got to. Role to play.
11:17
Rule #1 before you roll out of that campsite, yours, your
11:21
buddies, or a rando that clearly ghosted their campsite at dawn.
11:24
Do the old pit patrol. Is that fire pit still warm?
11:27
Is it smoking like your uncle's 90s pickup on a cold start?
11:31
Don't trust that it's out. Please check.
11:32
Rule #2 putting out the fire isn't just chucking water on it
11:36
and waving goodbye. You gotta drowned it.
11:38
You gotta stir it, dig it up, drowned it again, stir, repeat.
11:41
If it's hot to the touch, it's too hot to peace out from.
11:44
Don't be that person who starts the next news headline.
11:47
And while you're out there, is it windy?
11:49
Is it super dry? Is a fire band in effect?
11:52
Maybe don't light that Dang fire.
11:54
Bust out the propane stove. Eat the cold beans.
11:57
Embrace your inner minimalist. Your snack doesn't need ambiance
12:01
if the whole mountain's at stake.
12:03
Big, big, big tip here. If you got kids, teach them
12:06
young. Take them out.
12:07
Show them the way. Got a niece, nephew, a
12:10
neighborhood teen who loves chaos?
12:11
Teach them too. A whole lot of wildfires start
12:14
with an oops, and an oops doesn't fix a burnt forest.
12:17
Another rule tip or whatever, if you live in the woods, maybe a
12:21
cabin, maybe you're down by the river, you can get fire wise
12:24
y'all. That's not just a catchy name,
12:26
it's an actual program to help you prep your space and get your
12:29
stuff together. Get your shit together for fire
12:32
season. Google your town plus fire wise
12:35
and thank us later. This fire break was brought to
12:37
you by the Go Wild Leaf Podcast, where we believe outdoor
12:40
adventure comes with responsibility and the
12:43
occasional dead. Battery.
12:45
We'll be back in a flash just as soon as we swap out this
12:48
battery. And remember y'all stay wild.
12:51
But not wildfire starting wild. OK, back to it.
12:55
Tell it now. On the way up we saw a wild
12:59
butt. A butt in the wild.
13:01
Yeah, a butt in the wild. I wasn't even sure what I was
13:03
saying at first. We're.
13:05
Just driving. Apparently my truck is a lot
13:07
quieter than I realized. Yeah, cuz this couple had no
13:12
clue we were coming, let me tell you.
13:14
See. One up here, the one that were
13:16
shooting guns. I didn't see them.
13:18
Oh no, cuz you guys came from the other.
13:19
Direction were they in a Ford like ASUV type and?
13:22
They were. They had a pick up.
13:24
Cuz you guys came from that side.
13:26
OK, No, there was another young couple shooting guns over here.
13:30
They they didn't have a a quad on the back.
13:32
No, OK. No.
13:34
Cuz I they might the same couple might have gone that.
13:36
Way too and had a quad on the back but.
13:38
They left a little. I don't think so.
13:40
Anyways we came around and it's like I saw a full moon for
13:44
multiple seconds and I wasn't even sure what it was at 1st
13:46
until she stood up and and started laughing and we drove
13:51
around I was like I didn't see anything.
13:53
Her man's laughing like. Oh, I love it, ha ha ha ha ha.
13:57
They were boning. Yeah, well, I don't know.
13:59
She was peeing. I.
14:00
Mean they're. Probably boning right now.
14:04
At that point she was just peeing, but.
14:07
There were so many better places to peace, so I don't feel bad.
14:09
So many better places to bone. Not makes great out here, but
14:12
like kind of off the road. Yeah.
14:14
Road. No, there were a similar place
14:17
like this, like wide open. There was no trees, no canopy,
14:19
nothing. It was just rock and view.
14:22
And the road is right here. Yeah.
14:24
So she wasn't hiding at all. Well.
14:27
All right, no shame game. Whatever.
14:29
Yeah, Gotta use the facility trees.
14:31
You exactly gotta go. You gotta go.
14:32
Exactly. Yeah, I don't.
14:34
Blame her. I'm gonna move your mic just
14:35
because we're getting a little bit of wind.
14:37
Yep. I'm gonna move.
14:38
That's funny though. My Asia, my housemate, she went
14:41
for a run the other morning at like 5:00 AM and she said she
14:46
was coming back home. She was almost to our driveway
14:49
and she could see somebody like at the end of our driveway and
14:52
she started to feel a little uncomfortable approaching.
14:55
At your driveway. Like, yeah, at our driveway.
14:58
And I'm just I think about she like got a little closer and
15:03
then she realized this person has no pants on.
15:07
It's 5:00 AM downtown, Grants Pass weaker and this person is
15:12
just shirt cocking it. They weren't turd in, were they?
15:16
I don't know, she said. They were walking.
15:18
Oh. Man, but but they were.
15:20
They were pantsless. Yep.
15:21
Porky, Porky pig. Pooh Bear, OH.
15:24
Man, that's bad. Shirt cocking.
15:26
That's crazy because even in downtown Grants Pass, there's
15:29
way more places to do it than on the sidewalk.
15:31
Yeah, dude, there's a lot of parks.
15:33
Yeah, ask the homeless. Yeah.
15:35
I mean, he might have been, but it was 5:00 AM so get a nice
15:39
breeze up your butt. I've like driven down the street
15:41
and like all the cars are stopping.
15:42
I'm like, what's all what's going on up there?
15:44
We, I drive by cuz everyone's going slow around somebody just
15:47
like bucked naked in the middle of the street and I'm like,
15:49
what? That is like some drugs.
15:51
Why would you want to be on those There's.
15:54
Some. Crazy stuff happening.
15:55
Yeah, they don't know. There's a lot of crazy stuff
15:57
happening. Around, but I'm just like, wow,
15:59
what a show. Yeah, what a free show, free
16:01
Peep Show. Downtown seen it, I guess not
16:04
like the the content of the show, but just the fact that a
16:07
show was happening, yeah. You know, stories, stories to be
16:11
told right now. I I saw a naked person out in
16:14
the middle of the road, tweaking out, I mean.
16:16
I appreciate the slides. Yeah.
16:18
Like whatever, that's funny little tidbit about.
16:23
Mm hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of tidbits.
16:26
Yeah, a lot of titbits. Yeah.
16:29
All right, take us back to Michigan.
16:30
And what are your sisters doing? Your sister.
16:33
Sister is, she just recently got a promotion actually.
16:37
Congratulations. She's like she was born in 2001.
16:40
She's turning 24 this year. How old are you?
16:42
I'm 31, OK turning 32 this year and she straight out of college
16:48
she. Wasn't making a ton of money.
16:50
She wasn't. Super happy with where she was
16:52
at I'm. Always so weirded out about my.
16:55
Yeah. It's all right.
16:56
You get up probably 15 times in an episode to adjust a mic or
17:00
check a camera or. It's not part of it.
17:05
I want it to be perfect for y'all on the pod.
17:10
It's perfect. My wildly wonders out.
17:12
There, I'm not complaining, I'm just.
17:14
I do that dating, sorry. I do that when I eat too.
17:17
I get up a lot to like this. Might need some hot sauce.
17:22
Amen. Right, Everything is hot sauce.
17:25
I'm like, once I'm sat, I want to stay sat.
17:28
That's true too. That's true too.
17:32
OK, so your sister just got a promotion.
17:35
She's 24/24/24. Yep.
17:39
She's the smartest of all three of us.
17:40
Of course she's she's the hardest way.
17:44
She's the smartest of all three of us.
17:47
I worked kind of. No, I'm not that smart.
17:51
I didn't work that hard either in school.
17:53
But do you have a degree? Cool in psychology?
17:56
Psychology. Yeah, psychology is.
17:58
It like a masters or? Nope.
17:59
Just a bachelor's, just a masters and a minor in, I think,
18:02
poli sci. Yeah.
18:05
Political science. Yeah.
18:09
What a weird time. Yeah.
18:10
How'd you choose? Those psychology and political
18:13
science, Yeah. I'll give you I'll give you the
18:15
the short story of that I was, which is kind of tying into what
18:20
I was talking about before. Like my whole life, I've been
18:22
lost no clue anything up from down left, from right.
18:28
Not even blaming that on anybody.
18:29
It's just the way it is like like I have no roots anywhere.
18:34
I'm learning something new every single day, which is good and
18:38
bad but to go to college and like not even know who I am as a
18:45
person and then on top of that having to decide what I'm going
18:47
to do, like studying wise, like what?
18:50
I don't even know what the hell I want to do in this world so.
18:53
I was like, let me try to figure out my own brain.
18:56
Psychology. There you go.
18:58
The funny part is that I didn't even think about that till I was
19:00
a freshman. I was undecided and I one of the
19:03
classes I took was a psychology class and I failed my first
19:08
class or my first Test. It was like a 46 it wasn't even
19:12
good but I don't know how. For some reason after that I
19:15
like found a liking to it and I stuck with it, but it.
19:19
Was enough of a challenge. Yeah, it definitely had
19:22
something to do with the challenge for sure.
19:23
I mean, I was taking other classes like media fell asleep
19:26
in that like immediately. I can't believe they wouldn't.
19:29
They didn't like kick me out of that class as bad French.
19:33
Oddly enough, I took French all the way through my freshman year
19:36
in college and man, I was done after that.
19:39
Like, I don't what am I going to use French for?
19:41
Am I going to go to France? Did you go to college because
19:44
your parents were encouraging it?
19:46
Because they were college educated?
19:47
They wanted you to also be college educated.
19:50
It wasn't, you know, there's people that say like, oh, I'm
19:53
the first person to make it to College in my, in my family.
19:56
For me it was like bare minimum, you have to go to college, you
19:59
know, and. It's fine, cool, I go to
20:02
college. You know, I never had the desire
20:05
to drop out of high school or not do college.
20:08
It was kind of like when I got to that point, like, all right,
20:11
I'm going to go to college. I'm going to give it a try.
20:14
See see where it goes. And then, you know, kids, I got
20:16
to give hand it to my parents, like they instilled some good
20:19
things in me, like be educated and be a good person.
20:23
Like that's probably the basis of their parenting.
20:27
And despite like, you know, like familial problems and stuff
20:31
between my parents, at the end of the day they're still great
20:34
people. And I, I got that out of their
20:37
parenting. Wonderful.
20:38
Be a good person. Yeah.
20:40
And that's how. I'm trying to do with my kids.
20:43
Yeah, please be a good. Person right now you're a toxic.
20:46
Human. Yeah, right.
20:47
Exactly. I was I was I was a Jackass for
20:51
sure. A grown up, probably punk.
20:53
I had a. Are you getting in trouble a
20:55
lot? No, surprisingly not.
20:59
I wasn't getting in trouble through school per SE.
21:05
I did fight, but I wasn't getting suspended for it.
21:12
Weird. I don't know at what point.
21:14
Did the teachers think you're you were justified in?
21:17
Action a couple times, a couple times, but I didn't really start
21:20
getting like fighting in school until like I was maybe middle
21:24
school, high school. I think like my ego and fighting
21:31
have always been my like my. Downfall.
21:35
No, I still don't even call it a downfall, but definitely my my
21:39
defense against everything. Like not only did I feel like an
21:47
outsider, I felt like people actively didn't want me around.
21:51
And I don't know how much of that was real, but being part of
21:55
a different culture and hearing some of the things I did led me
21:59
to led me to believe or at least attribute maybe negative
22:04
emotions to other people that maybe not all felt the same way.
22:08
But in I heard stuff often enough to feel like I was not
22:12
just an outsider, but like getting ostracized and so you.
22:16
Heard people talking about you specifically or about my
22:19
culture. From Mexico more so yeah.
22:22
And, and so I, I remember early on I was like, I could either
22:27
allow myself to get bullied or I'm going to fight every single
22:30
person that tries to bully me. And like I had no ties to
22:35
anything, right? Who I don't have any loyalties
22:37
to anybody anything. And so that was the other side
22:40
of moving everywhere, which honestly, I appreciate that
22:44
about that. Like I, I didn't until I was
22:48
like maybe 29. I didn't give a shit about what
22:50
anybody thought about me or anything I did.
22:54
And to a certain degree, like that's good, I guess.
22:57
Like it helps you get really solid as a human being, but also
23:02
it makes you a very not a very social person.
23:09
Like it doesn't really endear you to a lot of people, which I
23:13
really already didn't have friends.
23:15
So what was the consequence really of me being standoffish
23:19
at all times? There was no consequence.
23:21
If anything, it was just my my defense mechanism.
23:25
And I rather have a defense mechanism and allow a bunch of
23:29
people to attack me. And I don't know, at at a
23:32
certain point I was just like, I rather assume that everybody is
23:35
my enemy then then allow more people in.
23:40
Because there was a point where I as a kid, like I remember
23:43
being a kid, you know, I would, I wanted friends like you to go
23:45
out and you have friends, but but most people have friends all
23:49
throughout their life growing up.
23:51
And I, I constantly was just the out the new guy.
23:55
So it's like already hard for a new guy.
23:57
And then having that defense up. And then having that defense up.
24:00
So it's talking about me. I'm here Exactly.
24:02
So you're like it really fast. It turned into a OK, I'm not
24:06
even gonna try and I'm just going to be standoffish all the
24:09
time. Better to keep people out then
24:11
let somebody in and then get hurt, right, And have to deal
24:14
with that Exactly. Yeah, and, and I operated like
24:17
that for a very, very long time. Honestly, I don't think I've
24:21
been able to shake that off until like super recently, like
24:23
literally in the two last 2-3 years.
24:26
And sports man, I I would say that like my saving grace, like
24:33
I had a ton of energy all my life and my dad was my mom and
24:38
my dad both heard black belt Taekwondo martial artist.
24:42
So like genetically I had it in me to be an athlete and that was
24:48
the one constant besides going outside literally being outside
24:53
all the time. Like I was probably a lot of
24:57
people say like the past generation was outside all the
24:59
time like I was born in 93. I was that generation where the
25:04
Xbox One was barely coming out, you know, PS2 was coming out
25:07
like I didn't have the Sega, I didn't have the Nintendo or
25:10
anything like that. I was outside.
25:12
I remember like my first, like what I think back on as like my
25:19
first experience outdoor where I felt peace was like in a in
25:26
between two apartment buildings and you go out into this field
25:29
like an acre or two and you just keep walking and it's just this
25:33
huge field. And my mom had told me not to go
25:36
back there. They didn't even mow the lawn
25:37
back the lawn back there because there's just so much lawn and
25:40
the grass got big, probably full of ticks, I think about it.
25:43
But there was some trees out there.
25:45
I just remember them being like big decadent conifers that grew
25:49
all the way to the ground. And it was just grass to to
25:53
branches to a tree. And it just, it was like a
25:56
little clubhouse And I would just sit in there and like do
26:02
nothing, just sitting there and like grab a stick and pretend
26:06
I'm just, I was like sword fighting something, you know,
26:08
like that was the first moment of peace I had.
26:10
And I remember just thinking about that all the time, just.
26:13
You were like four or five years old.
26:14
I was like between four and eight years old.
26:16
That's what I was doing, just going outside and there's a
26:19
playground, You know, I play basketball too.
26:21
But pretty much all my that chunk of my life in Michigan was
26:26
just literally wandering everywhere.
26:28
My mom had three kids, you know, and, and two of them were babies
26:32
and I had enough freedom to where I could just be outside
26:37
for a few hours and, you know, walk probably farther than she
26:40
wanted me to and find a little clubhouses.
26:44
I would call them in between the trees underneath them, some
26:47
staircases that had overgrown bushes all the way around so
26:50
nobody could see me. It was dark, probably full of
26:51
rats, but whatever. I didn't care about that back
26:53
then, but I would always find these little nooks underneath
26:56
things that that we're just quiet and dark and in between
26:59
trees and bushes. And so there was that and then
27:04
sports. So that was always a part of me
27:07
and. In martial arts or just other?
27:09
Sports. I never got into martial arts.
27:11
They tried to put me in a Taekwondo, but that was I was
27:14
boring. It ended up boring me.
27:15
The first sport I did was swimming.
27:18
First ever sport that I actually like, not because I loved it, I
27:22
actually dislike swimming quite a bit, but it was the sport that
27:25
my parents kept taking me to like every day like go practice,
27:28
go practice, go practice and and so that was the first sport that
27:31
I got decent I got I was a swimmer and.
27:34
Being part of a team environment in these places did that, did
27:38
you? Were you able to still make some
27:40
sort of friendships in your? Team.
27:42
That was like my only connection really.
27:44
My sports connections. I would make friends.
27:46
That's probably the only friends I've made actually.
27:49
Office sports teams. So that became extra, yeah.
27:52
Like like deep to your like. Very much so.
27:56
That was your. That was your crew.
27:58
That was your familiarity, safety and loyalty to those
28:04
people. That's where I found that was
28:06
the only place I could find that because it wasn't in school.
28:08
It wasn't like anywhere else, just like meeting people.
28:11
It was just during sports. Were they school sports or were
28:14
they like for? The most part they were school
28:17
sports. Every once in awhile I'd play
28:18
some intramurals, but yeah. So you were still going to
28:21
school with these folks, but you really only like associated with
28:26
them? Yeah, at practice that game.
28:27
Pretty much. And eventually, you know,
28:30
sometimes it would blossom in like friendship, like little
28:32
friendships here and there. I could probably name on two
28:35
hands the friends that I had growing up.
28:37
But at this point, like it's whatever to me.
28:41
I'm 31, I'm a grown man. I don't really care about all
28:43
that stuff like. But you have deep connections
28:45
and friends now. Yeah, yeah, my friends, if you
28:51
guys are watching, love you guys.
28:52
But I mean, I don't spend a lot of time outside of the home.
28:56
I just work when I go home, work and I go home.
28:59
So there's not really a lot of time afforded to other folks.
29:02
And people know that about me. Like it's not news.
29:07
Like I was saying, like nowadays I try to simplify my life.
29:12
Everything was complex for so long and it was just like this.
29:15
You needed to get it fresh or just in my body there's so much
29:19
pressure for a long time and. When you strip that away,
29:21
sometimes it's like you can start fucking fresh and over and
29:25
build back up. You can just what feels good
29:28
now, you can really dictate what you're fucking doing.
29:31
What's feel mountain biking aligned.
29:33
Yeah. And what?
29:34
Who you are, because all these other things were brought into
29:37
your life because of other people and other people's
29:40
expectations or guidance or instruction.
29:43
And you've gotten to a point now where your life is your life.
29:47
I would say. What you enjoy doing and you've
29:51
been able to identify through all of these tests and
29:54
complexities, that's 30s. What life means to you.
29:57
Yeah, that's your 30s. Same.
29:59
Same bro. I used to not want to be 30, and
30:02
now that I'm 30, I realize this is, like, gonna be a great
30:05
decade, yeah. It's prime.
30:08
I feel strong and I'm smarter than I've ever been.
30:10
So you can be sick and. You know yourself better than
30:13
you ever have. Probably no.
30:15
You're. Simplified now.
30:16
Simplified and not over overstretched and I have quite a
30:21
bit of time doing what I do so. Yeah, let's segue into it.
30:24
Yeah, it's like, well, like you said, it's me finding something
30:30
that I did for myself. And somehow it was a perfect
30:35
storm of things like right timing, right place, right time,
30:40
found the job and it's I never looked back after that.
30:44
And I mean, I could really get in depth in into those moments,
30:47
but like, do it. Yeah, when you came over from
30:51
New Mexico doing your training program over there, we talked
30:55
about that on our walk. So you'll have to get a little
30:57
bit more insight on that on our YouTube channel.
31:01
But you, you did your initial training down there and then you
31:04
got the job up here. Who did you start working for up
31:07
here? The.
31:07
Company out of Maryland. Great bad.
31:09
Yeah. First, not me.
31:12
Yeah, Merlin Grayback. Grayback for sure.
31:17
What do you think about Grayback?
31:21
Thank you for the for the opportunity to work for them.
31:25
It's a good place to start. Yeah, that's probably a good
31:28
starting zone. Yeah, and and teaches you a lot
31:31
and a lot of people just stay Gray backers and that's fine
31:34
too. You know, it's a good, it's a
31:37
good paying job and we, we bought a friggin house with it.
31:42
We bought a truck with it. Like I was comfortable and I was
31:46
doing the job that I wanted to do, but I wanted more.
31:50
Wanted more out of it. What happened in that?
31:54
Sorry, go ahead. No, no, you go.
31:56
OK. I want to know how how the
32:01
firefighting job initially attracted you, OK.
32:04
You knew from being very young that trees were a safe place.
32:09
Yes, but how do we get into like, did you see a job posting
32:14
about firefighting? Did you meet a firefighter?
32:17
Did somebody say, hey, you might be good at this?
32:20
Like how did firefighting coming?
32:24
I mentioned like all that stuff about being outside and and
32:27
trees because like it, it's a lot of build up really for me to
32:31
have found the passion in the moment that I did like it took a
32:34
lot of build up. Like it was like 24 years of
32:37
build up and I didn't realize it till I got to the job and when
32:41
it happened was so I graduated college still didn't know what
32:46
the hell I was doing. I got my degree but I was lost
32:49
as hell. I my first job out of college.
32:51
Like I thought it was something huge but I was working for this
32:53
like political campaign out of New Mexico and it was on paper.
32:58
It was like a breaking point for me.
33:00
It was awesome. Like dude this is going to look
33:02
great on the resume. Like 2 months in I was like holy
33:04
shit this is not what I want to do.
33:06
I was like having panic attacks. Like I have to, I have to talk
33:10
to people and I have to be a politician and like be nice to
33:13
people and pretend that I like people.
33:15
Like I can't pretend this is. Not for me.
33:18
No, this is. Been avoiding people my whole
33:20
life. Yeah, no, this is absolutely.
33:23
And it was weird because I did some public speaking and I got
33:26
the job because I was part of like student government.
33:29
For some reason, my dad told me to get into student government.
33:32
And so I got in student government.
33:33
Eventually I got fired from it because I went to a concert
33:35
instead of going to the meeting. Amazing.
33:37
They like kicked me out. But at the same time I was like,
33:41
I had gotten this, what's it called this like job, but not a
33:45
job, an internship with one of the centers on New Mexico.
33:49
So it was like like, oh, I have this serious internship, but you
33:53
guys want to kick me out. But whatever, like little comp
33:55
complex, little moment there. But they kicked me out of
33:58
student government. But thanks for that internship.
34:01
I got a job in politics and that segwayed into the two months
34:06
where I was like, dude, this is this is crazy.
34:09
I was drinking like I I was celebrating graduating college.
34:15
I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
34:17
I developed a drink. No, I already had a drinking
34:19
problem. I really took it to another
34:22
level and had a couple of little, little mistakes there
34:26
and it really shook my world up. And then coming off from there,
34:33
some some law troubles and definitely to go from being a
34:37
kid that you go to that isn't by all accounts a good kid.
34:42
Like I go to school, you know, I, I don't really do anything
34:47
besides, you know, every once in a while I would fight somebody.
34:50
But yeah, try to get good grades.
34:53
Do school, do sports, have decent amount?
34:57
Like people think that I'm a decent person and then all of a
35:00
sudden I'm faced with the, oh, shit, Like I could be a piece of
35:04
shit. Like I might be a piece of shit
35:06
right now. Like the consequences of this
35:08
could be real. Too much alcohol.
35:11
Yeah, too much alcohol, I'm making bad decisions and and
35:14
there was no way around it. There's no way around.
35:16
It was just like me looking at a wall being like, dude, I I have
35:21
these are consequences and they're real.
35:23
I think up to then I really hadn't realized that
35:25
consequences could be real. I just kind of live through life
35:28
and I don't know for one way or another.
35:30
I didn't really feel any consequence, you know, like I
35:32
would just, you know, not caring about anything or anybody
35:36
really. There's the edge.
35:37
Right. Exactly.
35:38
There's an edge, yeah. There it is.
35:40
I I got close to it. If anything, I'm fucking falling
35:43
off the edge right now. You know, like that's where I
35:45
was at. Like, dude, I don't even know if
35:47
you could rewind here, but I was faced with the time where I, I
35:53
was forced to look at myself, like absolutely forced to look
35:57
at myself. And I realized like, OK, the
35:59
damage has been done. The mistakes have been made.
36:02
I something needs to be changed, like and I got out and the first
36:08
thing I did was, you know, look for a job and it was like super,
36:12
super humble. I went to a restaurant and I
36:14
worked there for a few months and I was just a server and
36:19
found out real fast that was not a job for me again.
36:22
Interacting with people. Yeah, and be nice.
36:24
Exactly. Exactly.
36:26
Even when they're assholes. About the second time that I
36:28
almost got in a fight, I was like, I need to not do this.
36:32
This is not leading me down a path that I was supposed to be
36:34
on. Like I'm not I need to find
36:36
another job. So I was on community service
36:40
and I was digging A ditch behind a Community Center and very long
36:45
ditch and it's in my own brain. It's a pretty important ditch.
36:49
I just sweated all my problems away into digging this.
36:52
Like, I don't know, I don't remember how long it was, but
36:55
it's pretty long and it was like 3 feet deep in the New Mexico
36:58
dirt. And I'm just like take axe in my
37:01
way into the dirt and. Oh, that might be some good
37:04
therapy, just. It was like what the IT was.
37:06
Think of it exactly. Got to dig my way out of.
37:10
It and that same summer I was I worked at this this lady's
37:14
house. I was just, my job was just dig
37:17
this, bam, dig a fence around this bamboo because bamboo grows
37:22
sideways, right? So unless you dig into the
37:25
ground all the way to where the bamboo is growing out of and
37:28
then you build or you dig something in there to keep it
37:31
from growing sideways, then it's going to keep expanding
37:34
sideways. So I had to dig in the New
37:36
Mexico ground like 5 feet all the way around this huge Bush.
37:40
Integral part of my brain, you know, So I was doing digging
37:42
around the Bush and I did this ditch and I just finished the
37:46
ditch and the community service organizer from the inside comes
37:50
outside and he's like, how nice ditch.
37:52
I have a guy that that does tree trimming.
37:55
Do you are you interested in something like that?
37:57
I was like trees. Yeah, yeah, man.
37:59
Let me get that phone number. And I already had a friend that
38:01
was doing tree thinning who happened to be my roommate.
38:05
And like, he had just gotten this job too.
38:08
And then this guy told me about tree trimming.
38:11
I'm like, is all like it just all started coming together,
38:14
like, and I hadn't noticed it yet.
38:16
I hadn't realized all the stuff coming together.
38:18
But he, he was talking to me about chainsaws already, my best
38:21
friend, like, and he, I was like, oh, dude, this is awesome.
38:24
I like, I need to find something like that.
38:26
And, and this just naturally, organically popped up out of
38:29
nowhere. Like here's this job, call this
38:31
guy. I called him and he's like,
38:34
yeah, I lived in Silver City, fly out to Albuquerque or drive
38:38
up to Albuquerque and we'll have you sign some papers and you'll
38:41
be signed off. And I was like, OK, dude, I'll,
38:42
I'll fly there tomorrow. So I was like, flew there, took
38:45
an hour flight versus A5 hour drive to my truck.
38:48
Wasn't going to make it at that point.
38:49
So I flew there, sign my papers. He's like, it says a lot about
38:52
you to come out here. Of course we're going to give
38:54
you a job. It doesn't matter, like what
38:55
your history is like. Go ahead and go back down there.
38:58
And so came back, I started working on a bucket truck, which
39:02
is just like tree trimming around.
39:04
Yeah. Power lines.
39:06
You know, you see a lot of that out here.
39:07
Asplund. And the company that I work for
39:09
was a small, smaller version of Asplund in New Mexico.
39:13
And there I met like one of the most skilled climbers I've ever
39:17
met in my life. Like to this day probably I
39:19
don't I, there's a hallowed few chainsaw operators that I have
39:24
in my head, like maybe 5. And I've met a hundreds of
39:28
chainsaw operators and there's maybe 5 that are on the top of
39:30
my list. And he was one of them.
39:32
And I just chipped a lot of his trees that he was cutting.
39:36
And for months I was doing that. And I just realized that, man,
39:39
this is actually kind of fulfilling.
39:41
Even though I was chipping, it was like it was not special.
39:43
I'm just chipping trees that are near power lines and he's
39:46
cutting them and I'm just throwing them into a chipper.
39:48
Hours on it. 12 hours just getting just he was talking so
39:52
much shit to me. He wasn't necessarily a good
39:55
person, like he was kind of toxic, but he had a lot to learn
39:58
from. So I took the lessons and I'm 22
40:01
at this at this time. So I'm like taking all the
40:04
lessons, whatever. Like you can mentally abuse me
40:06
at this point, but I'm I realized like I want to be
40:09
outside. I think you got that psychology
40:10
degree. You're like toxic motherfucker.
40:12
Yeah, I'll take what's the good and leave the rest.
40:14
Literally, literally, that's my degree has been important to me,
40:18
but not it's like quantifiable besides in my own head, like,
40:23
oh, I can categorize different people in certain ways, you
40:27
know, like you're just doing it for a reason.
40:29
At least I identify their motivations and that that is a
40:32
lot. And believe it or not,
40:34
recognizing people's motivations tells you a lot about them and
40:39
how they treat you. And a lot of that has helped me
40:43
in this life, like understanding who people are and how they
40:48
treat me based on who they are. And it helps me minimize my,
40:54
like, my relationship with those people.
40:56
You know, I don't need to stick my neck out for people that are
40:59
obviously trying to piss me off. And you don't need to start a
41:02
fight with them to yeah. I can I can bury the hatchet
41:05
now, or I can just not give a damn about these people.
41:09
But so trees. That seems like a much simpler
41:14
like. That seems like the start of
41:16
simplifying. Your life of.
41:19
This is a simple job. Digging A ditch, you know
41:21
there's something, there's a a set finish and start and finish
41:25
to this and I feel good. Clear deliverable.
41:28
Yes, exactly. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this
41:30
is the first time in my life there's something clear, start
41:33
and finish, and there is a benefit.
41:36
Some people are benefiting it and what?
41:38
Guess what? This is good.
41:39
This is like a net good whole shit, kind of.
41:42
Like that type 2 or type B fun, like what mountain biking is.
41:46
With mountain biking, you're like, it's not necessarily fun
41:50
getting up the mountain if you're biking up the mountain,
41:53
right? But you get up there and then
41:55
you come down and then you're done for the day and you're
41:57
like, I fucking did that, Yeah. And it's like, I sweat.
42:01
I got a gnarly workout. And it's that Type B fun having
42:05
that. You're like, fuck yeah.
42:06
At the end of the day, yeah. And my God, the job is that
42:10
that's exactly what it is. That's cool.
42:12
But trees getting the job, that first initial tree job, I did
42:18
that for like 7 months or something and I was roommated
42:23
with my tree thinning friend And we, we were really good friends.
42:26
We played soccer together. Like that's one of my really
42:29
good friends. To this day, I still talk to him
42:31
and me and our other roommate, all three of us were sitting at
42:34
dinner one day and two of us were sitting at dinner and Peter
42:38
comes in, he's like, hey, do you guys want to be firefighters?
42:41
He brings a flyer. He pulls a flyer out of his
42:44
pocket or whatever. And then it just said the
42:46
introduction to what I told you before, the Heelan National
42:49
Forest is putting on these classes for anybody that wants
42:53
them. Like you just have to qualify
42:54
for them. And, and by qualifying, you just
42:57
mean like be able bodied, you know, show up, take these
43:00
classes and you're going to go on a list.
43:02
And from that list, we're going to call people as needed.
43:05
So it's a whole thing within the Forest Service.
43:07
It's AD hires, which is just super casual, like emergency
43:12
only when we need you, we're going to call you type thing.
43:15
So they weren't promising anything besides giving us the
43:17
classes, which in itself is super important.
43:19
Very thankful for that. Like that it takes money to do
43:22
that and it takes a commitment from people and that that want
43:27
it. And to this day, like the Swift
43:29
crew is like a very important part of the community down
43:32
there. It's still still around and
43:34
people that really care about that program are still running
43:37
it. And I even in my short amount of
43:40
time there, I realized that it was people that really cared
43:42
that drove it. And like, it's just another net
43:45
good just teaching regular human beings who want to be, who want
43:50
to be public servants in in whatever fashion they can, you
43:54
know, like, and sometimes they recruit based off of those, you
43:57
know, like there's guys that they're very obviously have the
44:00
stuff and, and then they're like to apply next year for a full
44:04
time job with the foresters. You know what I mean?
44:05
Like we're going to recognize your name.
44:06
This is your foot in the door and this is how you start.
44:09
You got to start somewhere. So I took the classes and right
44:14
at the end they're like, this is not a promise.
44:17
They like go out and buy your $500 pair of boots because
44:20
you're going to need them, but we're not promising you
44:23
anything. So everybody scatters to the
44:25
wind and goes back to their job. At this point, I, I had to tell
44:29
that the tree trimmers like, hey, I want to fight fire and
44:32
it's going to, I can't say that I'm going to be gone at this
44:35
time anytime specifically, but I'm, I want to fight fire and
44:38
they're going to call me and I'm going to have to be able to pick
44:39
up and go. And they're like, we can't do
44:41
that for you. So I had to quit this tree job
44:44
and at the same time I had taken this class.
44:47
So I'm like, oh shit, I'm caught somewhere between a rock and a
44:50
hard place. Luckily I applied to this
44:53
mechanical fabrication shop at the same time I got rid of the
44:56
tree job, jumped into another blue collar job and I pretty
45:00
much cleaned metal with an angle grinder for hours on end.
45:05
Like I went from chipping to just angle grinding for hours,
45:09
just breathing in all the metal particles and and not spray
45:12
painting, but powder coating metal parts for fabrication shop
45:17
that specialize in lettuce trimmers, like big mechanized
45:20
lettuce trimmers. Like super high tech, though.
45:22
The guy was an engineer and he set up his own shop.
45:24
It was like this tiny little mom and pop shop when I was there.
45:28
I was employee number six. And by the time I left like six
45:31
months later, it they had moved into a big old fabrication shop
45:35
downtown, like middle of downtown.
45:36
To this day, he's probably a millionaire now.
45:38
I got he's making a ton of money, I'm sure.
45:41
And yeah, so I was just. Is there a need for lettuce
45:44
choppers? In in Yuma, AZ Yeah, that's.
45:47
Where my ex husband's from, Yeah.
45:49
Hey from it's. Just lettuce field after lettuce
45:51
field after lettuce field. Lettuce field.
45:52
Yeah, they only remove a lettuce field to build a build a housing
45:57
development. Exactly.
45:58
But it is lettuce field for days.
46:02
Yeah, lettuce growing capital of the.
46:04
Country. Wow.
46:06
Yep, Yuma, AZ That's where they were taking their machines.
46:08
Wow. I have pictures of it.
46:10
I don't know. It would take me forever to look
46:12
it up, but they're, they're like, I don't know, 40 foot
46:15
wide. I got a bunch of little like
46:17
computer at the front that recognizes if a lettuce is
46:21
harvestable or if it's going to be too small or sick or anything
46:24
like that. And then the part of the back
46:25
just chops it or sprays it. They spray it so it kills the
46:28
lettuce and it leaves room for the next lettuce to grow take
46:32
its spot. I've probably seen a lettuce
46:34
machine that you worked on. Maybe maybe they were blue and
46:39
red and I was cleaning and I was cleaning the the stainless steel
46:43
camera boxes and the big huge half inch regular steel and just
46:50
so they had a they had a plasma cutter, right?
46:52
So I would leave a whole bunch of like metal imperfections and
46:55
I would just go in there make it look pretty pretty much.
46:57
And then once it was put together, I, I was able to just
47:02
be positioned to where I was put in charge of the powder coating
47:06
of the machine, which is pretty sick.
47:08
You know, like it's cool. I I'm just a kid and I joined
47:13
telling him, I remember in that in the, in the interview
47:17
process, I was like, dude, I just, I want to work like
47:19
they're like, it says here that you're a machinist.
47:21
And I'm like, oh, I don't know. I I know how to run a chainsaw,
47:25
but that's not what a machinist is, right?
47:26
But they were, they seen that I was honest and I just wanted to
47:29
work. And I'm like, yeah, be.
47:30
Here and they were OK for you doing the firefighting if you
47:33
need to delete. Exactly.
47:35
And I dropped and I asked that in the interview.
47:37
I was like, this is I just took these classes.
47:39
I want to do the firefighting thing and and they're like,
47:43
yeah, man, we'll work with you. Says, man, this works out.
47:46
Sorry, trees, I'm out. I'm going to move on to this
47:48
next job because I want to fight fire.
47:50
So I worked there for six months and it I think my first call was
47:54
April. I went out, I did 14 days and we
47:58
just what I was telling you about that we did here.
48:00
My first tour was one of the most boring tours of my life.
48:03
Like they called me and they're like actually I was a
48:06
replacement for somebody that fell out and my friend
48:08
recommended their them to call me and I came and I just went on
48:12
tour for 12 days driving around the HeLa, just waiting on IA
48:15
just PT ING and driving everywhere.
48:18
It's all that mean. OK, physical training.
48:22
PTPTIA is initial attack. OK, So like any Hila, the Hila
48:27
National Forest. OK, that's the the force that I
48:31
got trained from. And so it's just basically what
48:34
it is. It's twenty of us in trucks
48:36
split in the four modules, and we drive around Heela National
48:39
Forest like either to the radio is waiting on an incident to
48:44
happen. Then there's a series of radios
48:48
in every forest that repeat off of each other, and they come
48:51
from dispatch and people call in to dispatch with these
48:55
incidents. And dispatch has the location of
48:58
all of its resources on a forest.
49:00
And based on their locations, they dispatch those resources to
49:04
the nearest fire. And so pretty much we're a
49:07
certain resource as a crew just waiting on dispatch to tell us,
49:11
OK, go to this fire, this is the location, this is what it is.
49:14
Kind of like how ambulances kind of post up and get.
49:17
Out. Yep.
49:18
Yep. Except we try not to post up.
49:20
Oh, you try try not to post up, but sometimes we post up.
49:23
There's the thing called staging, which is like the worst
49:26
part of firefighting staging. It's boring, the most boring
49:31
stuff in the world. And so my first tour, most
49:34
boring, but like, I just know that I was out there driving in
49:37
the woods and it really touched the tone with me.
49:40
And then the next tour was when everything changed.
49:43
They called me and they said we're going to Montana and we
49:45
drove up Yeah, this was different.
49:47
I was like, holy shit. They were only taking five of us
49:50
AD guys and the rest of them were permanent employees from
49:52
the Forest Service, so it felt like it was more official at
49:55
this point. They're like, yeah, jump in the
49:56
truck, let's go. We ended up going all the way N
49:59
this is crazy. This is my first tour ever where
50:02
like I'm just living in New Mexico at this point.
50:05
I haven't like really left very much and they're like we're
50:07
going to Montana and I was like, are you serious Like this is
50:10
crazy. I signed up to maybe have the
50:12
opportunity to fight fire and I'm all the way.
50:14
I'm all of a sudden I'm going across the country to do exactly
50:17
that. So we drove to Montana and for
50:20
the next like 17 days, we bounced back and forth from fire
50:23
to fire, to fire to fire to fire to fire.
50:25
We would finish one fire. We got promised steaks the same
50:28
night and learn real quick never to do that again.
50:31
Never to believe that there was going to be a steak at the end
50:33
of the night because we were doing after action review and we
50:36
seen a fire in the distance and they dispatched this to it.
50:39
Right after after action review. We get there and it was just a,
50:42
a burning coal fire that had been burning for like 100 years
50:45
underneath the ground. And it just, it got hot enough
50:48
in the middle of summer where it torched off the the grass and it
50:50
just took off. And we ended up going there and
50:53
we showed up. Apparently it's a thing we just
50:56
started. We just dug and we started
50:58
digging. There's helicopters, people
50:59
screaming, there's a guy in the corner crying, just spit and the
51:03
smoke hurts and I'm just digging and I'm like holy shit, holy
51:08
shit. I'm fighting fire.
51:09
Yeah, this is real. Like this is real.
51:13
Screaming, spitting, crying, snotting.
51:18
Your face is just leaking. You're starving too, because you
51:20
haven't eaten. Yeah, you're just hyped.
51:22
You're just fucking hyped. You're eating MRE, so you're
51:25
eating something just in like this foot.
51:29
It's not food. I mean, it's kind of food.
51:31
It's nutrition. Hydrated and.
51:32
Nutrition. It has nutritional value.
51:34
Yeah, you know, And there's a reason that soldiers and we eat
51:37
it. You know it, It'll keep you
51:39
alive. But man, you ain't never been so
51:41
constipated in your life. I don't even want to know.
51:43
And you get your. Benefiber and you're like.
51:46
God, yeah, basically that Montana tour, I was doing it and
51:51
it just it. You went from zero to.
51:53
My whole life was just like just pressure, pressure, pressure,
51:56
pressure, pressure, pressure and and that tour, finally it
52:00
exploded. You were that cold under the
52:03
ground. Pretty much it just it got
52:05
simple like real fast, real fast after them them shifts and I was
52:10
exhausted and I was just like I just did a net good and I'm
52:15
tired. That's it.
52:17
That's all I felt at the end of the day.
52:19
I could keep doing this and that's very much it wrote
52:23
itself, you know, but. And now you're 10 years later.
52:27
Almost 10. Years, almost 10 years later,
52:29
professional. Yeah, no.
52:30
Did you end up working for Greyback until?
52:33
I worked for Greyback for six years.
52:35
OK, so, but there's a, there's a, there's a little bridge there
52:39
because I did that 80 stuff, but I can't work for the federal
52:42
government being a Mexican citizen.
52:45
So literally me being an AD was the only thing I could do
52:48
because that was a casual emergency hire and completely
52:51
legal. It's above board.
52:52
Like it happens but that was the only way the federal employment
52:55
and the federal government can employ me.
52:57
And I don't know if they're going to go after people like
52:59
that now too. But I don't see why.
53:01
But the I pay my taxes on everything so it shouldn't be a
53:06
problem for anything but. Are you AUS citizen now?
53:09
Just recently. Congratulations.
53:13
I mean, and that's really the heart of everything.
53:15
Like trying to find my identity. My whole life has been the
53:19
ultimate. Chase And you've literally grown
53:21
up here. Exactly.
53:22
So it's like, it's all I've ever known.
53:24
All I've ever known is being an American.
53:26
And I didn't even know it really right.
53:28
And I had people telling me that I'm not my whole life.
53:30
You're like, mother, where's your green card?
53:32
Where's your green card? Or pretty much exactly.
53:37
You see why? Why I fight?
53:38
People like everything. I would be playing sports.
53:40
People would be like you fucking Mexican.
53:41
But what's your grand card? I'm like bro what the fuck?
53:45
Just play the game bro, like whatever.
53:46
You're like. This is like.
53:47
Cyrus always. Cyrus already.
53:49
Yeah, I didn't even realize that that was a thing, really, just
53:52
when I was just hearing all these things sideways, like
53:54
eventually you start to realize, oh, man, this is a thing.
53:57
But I didn't. I didn't let it stop me.
54:00
Whatever. Yeah.
54:02
But. It probably propelled you a
54:04
little bit it. Absolutely propelled me the.
54:07
Finger propels me. We just got that dialed in
54:11
today. Yeah, fit this finger.
54:14
Just like it makes me want to like when somebody tries to tell
54:17
me what to do and like. Tell you that you can't do
54:21
something, that you aren't gonna amount to something.
54:24
I fucking harness it and I'm just like bitch, watch me.
54:27
Absolutely. Well, see, that's there was no
54:30
path for me to become not the flip side to finding the fact
54:33
that I wanted to be a firefighter with like everything
54:36
in my body was fact. I could not like boom like, oh
54:40
shit, I want to do this forever. You can't, you can't.
54:45
You're a Mexican. You cannot do this.
54:47
You cannot be employed by the federal service.
54:49
And, and that hit me hard, you know, like I started realizing
54:53
and I knew this going into it, you know, I knew this, but it
54:56
once I realized how much I loved it, it really hit me hard.
55:00
And I'm like. But there was work, not federal.
55:02
Yeah, but I didn't know that yet.
55:04
I just knew that, OK, man, I can do this AD thing, whatever.
55:07
But I went back to work and I was fabricating metal again.
55:10
And I'm saying just staying like daydreaming all day.
55:13
Like, shit, shit, shit, you know, like, I want to do that.
55:15
I just want to be out there doing it.
55:18
You got a taste for it. Yeah, constantly lived in my
55:20
head. And so I got called again a
55:24
third time. This time was it was just a tour
55:27
where we went on fire in like a little north of Silver City.
55:32
But the difference was that we had five smoke jumpers that came
55:36
down. Huge, important people in the
55:39
fire world jump out of airplanes and do what we do.
55:42
And they came down and they were the, our leadership for this
55:46
tour. So they split us up into their
55:48
modules and we, we had some fire shifts, but it wasn't like gung
55:53
ho like you, not like now. But I just remember just picking
55:59
their brain. That tour was important for me
56:01
because I was picking their brain about every single little
56:03
question I had. Because I knew at this point,
56:05
like, damn, I need to do this, I need to do this.
56:07
And I just kept asking questions.
56:09
And finally, like I talked to him, I was like, dude, is it
56:11
possible? Like, what the hell can I do?
56:13
And he's like, well, there's companies, there's companies
56:15
that you can apply for that all you got to do is be a living,
56:19
breathing body, you know? And like, at this point, I had
56:22
people within leadership that had seen me work at the.
56:25
They're like, no, dude, you might have something and you're
56:27
like you, you might, you should look at doing this like as a
56:32
job. And so I had that in the back of
56:34
my mind and I knew that I was finding this passion.
56:37
And he's like, yeah, look for this company out of the Pacific
56:43
Northwest. And he didn't have to tell me
56:44
twice. Like, I already liked being
56:45
outside. I knew I wanted to be near
56:47
water. I have seen the map and how
56:49
green it is over there. I knew where the fires were
56:51
happening. Like it wasn't a very hard
56:54
decision to make in my own head. Like, oh man, I went home that
56:57
same night. I looked up the companies and I
57:00
just applied everywhere. I applied everywhere.
57:02
And I think maybe it could like 2 weeks before I got a call from
57:06
guy up here and he's like, we have a job for you, but the only
57:10
thing is you have to be here in nine days.
57:12
Like can you do it? I didn't have.
57:14
I didn't have. To yeah, I'll be there in 24.
57:16
I'll be there days or hours. Yep.
57:19
So I quit my job, left my lease, sold my truck.
57:27
The only thing I didn't bring up was my dog, but I had maybe $200
57:31
in my pocket. Like I was just like, I need to,
57:34
I need to do something, I need to anchor in like this, I'm
57:38
going to be there in 9 days. And I was, I did my Pap test
57:41
passed and now all I had to do was go to project work until we
57:45
were going to fire. This was the same year, still
57:46
the same year where I was like fabricating shop at start.
57:49
At the start of the year I had gone to fire and now I was on
57:53
with a company that that was fighting fire.
57:55
And I live in in in Oregon now and I live.
57:59
When you come. Came up in a barn where there
58:03
was four other dudes 500 bucks a month.
58:07
Like I don't know how I found it.
58:08
I just asked the hiring manager at the company like where am I
58:13
going to live at the at the time they didn't have like any
58:16
barracks. Now they do, but they didn't
58:18
back then. They it's really hard to get
58:21
rental out here like for anybody, especially low income
58:26
individuals like us firefighter folks and especially if you're
58:30
moving across the country. So I just got lucky that that
58:34
was that was an opportunity that was available to me.
58:37
Eventually it kind of soured and I had to get, I had to move out.
58:40
Long story, but there was like a couple of drug addicts that live
58:44
there. One of them is dead now.
58:45
He OD. Like it's pretty crazy gambling.
58:47
Yeah. You meet some real grungy people
58:49
within the industry. Not to say everybody's like
58:51
that, but. But when all they're looking for
58:54
is a breathing body and. You're bound to find some folks
58:57
that are just not not living their best life.
59:01
But there's also some really good people there too.
59:03
So it's not like everybody there is a junkie, which a lot of
59:07
people in the feds say like, oh, contractors really.
59:10
But I know better than that. I know that there's good people
59:13
over there and some of the best people in the industry are
59:16
contractors, so. Which is very valuable coming
59:19
from somebody who previously did not like just about anybody.
59:24
Yeah. And to be able to acknowledge
59:25
that no, there are good people in here that are upstanding
59:29
citizens or just upstanding humans, citizen or not.
59:32
Right, humans. Yeah.
59:34
Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I don't think I
59:36
could come to those conclusions unless I had shown up here and
59:39
just, man, I had all this angst and I just went and I piled
59:44
sticks, cut sticks, burnt sticks for years like sticks.
59:48
I didn't No questions, lot of no questions, no thinking, no
59:54
talking, no more, no more thinking.
59:58
That's. Simple.
1:00:00
Everything just sticks. All life is sticks.
1:00:04
Yeah, live sticks and all live sticks.
1:00:06
Dead sticks. Burning sticks.
1:00:08
Just go exactly go out there and deal with the sticks and hope
1:00:12
for a fire call. And they were coming.
1:00:13
Fire calls were coming, came out and my first tour was, it might
1:00:18
have been, yeah, first tour was Klondike.
1:00:21
Where we where we are? Straight up like over there
1:00:23
somewhere. But my God, first, first tour
1:00:27
with Gray back and we were it was we were doing night shifts
1:00:30
and they're like, here, take this torch go burn like we were
1:00:34
we were burning on the front line start with the ocean on our
1:00:37
backs. And I'm like, holy fucking shit,
1:00:38
bro. Like what have I found?
1:00:41
And is game over from there. Like what else was I going to do
1:00:44
at this point? Like my God.
1:00:46
And so that finished. That's where I ended.
1:00:49
It rained on us. We got demo came back home, went
1:00:52
back to the sticks stacking. I'm brand new.
1:00:55
I'm just stacking sticks making piles 5 by 6 by 6 by 5 foot
1:00:59
tall. Just every hundreds of piles.
1:01:02
You're expected to do 6 piles an hour.
1:01:05
And these are piles that then you're going to burn like this
1:01:07
is clearing debris. Yep.
1:01:09
OK. Yeah, so you look like all that,
1:01:10
you look at all this stuff and you're cutting all the small
1:01:12
stuff, the dead stuff, the brush, so that the fire
1:01:15
prevention big, yeah, big healthy trees stay and nothing
1:01:20
is going to climb into them in case something burns here.
1:01:22
Like you pull everything that's going to burn away from the
1:01:24
healthy trees. OK.
1:01:25
You know, so you thin out. That's the definition of
1:01:28
thinning out. It's it's like firefighting,
1:01:31
it's prevention. You know, firefighting, you're
1:01:33
like, there's a fire on you and you're pulling away all the
1:01:36
brush that's actively burning. Whereas in prevention is pulling
1:01:40
that brush that's going to burn beforehand before the fire is
1:01:42
on. Which leads into a big cute
1:01:44
question like, OK, we don't really need to be doing whenever
1:01:47
all this work when things are burning.
1:01:49
We could do, we have all year when things aren't burning, then
1:01:51
we should be doing this. But that's another conversation.
1:01:54
That's the that's the controversial.
1:01:56
That's the big wildland firefighter.
1:01:58
That's the big one. That's the the center of
1:02:02
everything, really that's. I hear my dad bitching when he's
1:02:05
who they should come out and then this.
1:02:07
We should. We absolutely should, but like,
1:02:09
who's paying us to do it, you know?
1:02:11
Like, yeah, there's money for fighting active fires, but not
1:02:16
for prevention. Yeah, yeah, there's this big,
1:02:19
huge industrial complex for fighting fire.
1:02:23
But there's, I mean, we don't have to put ourselves at that
1:02:27
danger, really. We need to be thinning at all
1:02:30
times all year. And I think a lot of us would be
1:02:33
happy to be doing work all year round without the.
1:02:36
I mean, there's still intrinsic dangers to being out in the
1:02:39
woods and cutting trees down like it's, it's a dangerous job
1:02:43
regardless, but we don't necessarily have to do with a
1:02:46
burning front chasing us. Not all the time, and we'll
1:02:49
happily do it, but I mean, it burns you out when you're
1:02:53
constantly under that stress. Yeah, which is fine.
1:02:56
I love this shit. I'm gonna keep doing it, but I
1:02:58
can't expect the same out of other people.
1:03:00
Like it's, it's asking a lot of people.
1:03:02
Yeah. What's the when you made that
1:03:04
switch from private? So that was more recently.
1:03:08
That was very recently so. In a whole another world.
1:03:11
It's again like it was like this whole time.
1:03:16
It's hanging in my head like this is not possible for you.
1:03:19
Like you can't do this. There is no Rd. there for you at
1:03:23
all. Plus I've got in trouble like
1:03:26
it. It's not.
1:03:27
There's no career development. There's you're the best you can
1:03:31
hope for is stocking sticks, cutting sticks, burning sticks,
1:03:34
maybe getting good at cutting sticks and and so for like
1:03:38
years, that's all I operate on whatever.
1:03:40
Just go out there and deal with the sticks, try to get good with
1:03:43
the sticks. Love the chainsaw and just
1:03:46
absolutely love the chainsaw. That was my saving grace, just
1:03:50
knowing that machine and what it can do and just running it for
1:03:54
thousands and thousands of hours because it puts you at the front
1:03:58
of everything. You know, if you're the guy
1:04:01
cutting the trees, cutting the brush out in front of a fire,
1:04:05
you're the first one there. And that, I mean, man, if you
1:04:07
wanted, if you want to do this job, you should want to do that.
1:04:09
You should be the one wanting to do that.
1:04:11
And that's exactly what it looked like.
1:04:12
There's nothing that I love more than that.
1:04:14
So I the chainsaw was all I thought about.
1:04:18
Still all I think about at this point and.
1:04:20
Sorry, Chelsea. Chainsaw over Chelsea?
1:04:22
Talking about job, we're talking about a job besides Chelsea.
1:04:25
Chelsea. That's why I love her, because
1:04:28
chapter. But yeah, so there wasn't really
1:04:34
a path, you know, like for the longest time it was just what?
1:04:37
Simple. It's simple though, you know,
1:04:38
like ain't nothing wrong with it.
1:04:41
And then all of a sudden it started.
1:04:45
I started working on it and it became possible.
1:04:49
I talked to a lawyer. I did my application process.
1:04:52
I went through like a bunch of difficult things.
1:04:55
I get my paperwork, talking to the right people and do you.
1:04:58
Have to take a test and shit. Yeah, You have to take a whole
1:05:01
whole test, which is like history test, you know, like if
1:05:03
you paid attention to history, which luckily, like that was one
1:05:06
of the things I really liked in school.
1:05:07
Like I was decent in American history and it helped.
1:05:10
It's a civic exam that they give you 100 questions and out of
1:05:14
those 100 questions are going to ask you 10.
1:05:16
You got to get 7 out of those 10.
1:05:17
So if you answer the first seven questions right, then you're
1:05:21
done. You're good.
1:05:22
And I study the crap out of them.
1:05:24
It's it's the same 100 test, same 100 questions for
1:05:26
everybody. I started the crap out of them.
1:05:28
I turned in my application. I thought it was going to take
1:05:30
years and little did I know, like it only took me till I was
1:05:33
29 years old. But at this point I had like 5
1:05:35
years of experience within the industry.
1:05:38
It just, everything came together finally.
1:05:41
And I, I got my citizenship and the afternoon after I got it, I
1:05:47
contacted people that I had already contacted before with
1:05:51
the Forest Service and I had tried to get on like see if I
1:05:54
could do AD work within like different modules.
1:05:57
But it, nobody wants to do that for you.
1:05:59
Like nobody wants to stick their neck out.
1:06:00
That's a lot of work to hire somebody as an AD within your
1:06:03
module, which I don't blame anybody for.
1:06:05
But as soon as I got my citizenship, I was like, dude,
1:06:07
that's it, game over. I'm gone.
1:06:09
I don't even got to think twice. My crew boss knew about it too.
1:06:12
He was like, oh, you guys since shit, when are you leaving now?
1:06:14
I'm like, yes, I'm gone. I'm sorry, bro, I love you, but
1:06:17
I'm gone. Like it's possible now.
1:06:20
And it hadn't ever been. And I mean, that was just a
1:06:23
couple years back and like refreshed everything in my mind.
1:06:26
Like I was, I was starting to get kind of tired, a little
1:06:29
little draggy, a little ornery, But and then then that happened
1:06:35
and and I got my dream job and. Now what is that?
1:06:40
Now like what is? Your I'm a hotshot, hotshot with
1:06:43
the federal government, so pretty much doesn't get better
1:06:47
than this. Like doing what I want to do
1:06:50
with the crew, and I mean my whole life is just staying fit
1:06:55
and being ready to do what I'd like to do best.
1:06:59
And you work for like a sector that's here in Southern Oregon
1:07:03
or grants. Pass in Northern California.
1:07:04
Northern California, that's where they're like hub is and
1:07:07
that's where you kind of report to or.
1:07:09
It is. So the federal government has
1:07:10
like different regions, different firefighting regions,
1:07:13
and they split it up geographically.
1:07:16
Funnily enough, like the the geographic line for the regions
1:07:20
here is the California border. Everything north of California
1:07:23
is Region 6. Everything South of it is Region
1:07:25
5. So even though I live in Region
1:07:28
6, I work in Region 5 almost. Yeah.
1:07:30
Yeah. But like, there's not a lot of
1:07:32
hot. So like California has like 60
1:07:35
something hotshot crews for the state.
1:07:37
Define a hotshot crew versus, just like the others, the other
1:07:42
crew. Yeah, what makes a hot shot?
1:07:44
Hot shot for the federal like firefighting, but hot shot is a
1:07:48
whole nother sub category. Yeah, Yeah.
1:07:51
You split it up in a lot of ways, the whole fire industry.
1:07:55
But as far as cruise, and that's cuz that's what we're talking
1:07:58
about here. Cruise type one versus Type 2
1:08:02
and there's one in between is Type 2 IA.
1:08:04
So it just goes 1-2 IA 2 and in descending order.
1:08:10
It's like the amount of qualifications that you have on
1:08:13
your crew. Like there's a certain amount of
1:08:16
qualifications that you need to have to be a Type 2 IA crew over
1:08:20
2, and then an incredible amount of qualifications that you need
1:08:24
to have as a crew to be a Type 1 and so and.
1:08:28
What are you? Type 1, so from then.
1:08:31
Which means you have an incredible amount of
1:08:33
qualifications. Not me personally.
1:08:34
But your crew? But my crew, but in order to
1:08:37
keep my crew at that level, you know, it's our responsibility to
1:08:42
keep them qualifications. So like it takes a lot of time
1:08:47
for some reason getting those qualifications.
1:08:49
And if, if that person is like on their way out, like about to
1:08:53
retire because it took them 30 years to get all these
1:08:56
qualifications and it's up to somebody else to start building
1:08:59
up to the point where they're going to be able to, you know,
1:09:01
keep this hot shot crew up. So it's like a constant having
1:09:06
to recertify thing within the federal agency.
1:09:11
So like there's, it's not, it's not for and for a hot shot crew
1:09:14
to lose their status. And, and it's like a, it's a
1:09:17
very fluid thing. Like there's technically even
1:09:21
contractors can have hot shot crews, but at the crux of the
1:09:25
issue is that a contractor like by nature, you're out to make
1:09:29
money, you're a for profit company and having one strong
1:09:34
crew versus having five money making crews, it's pretty easy
1:09:39
to make that decision, right? Like so maybes contract a
1:09:43
certain contractors have enough quality individuals to make a
1:09:47
very strong crew. But would you are you going to
1:09:51
do that and make money on a single crew or are you going to
1:09:55
water it all down and have four or five good individuals?
1:09:57
5678 depends you know it. It changed year by year, not
1:10:01
just with contractors but with federal agencies, too.
1:10:04
So when you're not active, when like active fire season isn't
1:10:09
happening, most of your work time is classes,
1:10:13
recertifications, keeping up those skills and qualifications.
1:10:17
Yeah, The big difference for me personally, like just because of
1:10:19
where I'm at in my career, I've had to take a lot of classes
1:10:24
because as a contractor, it's not really you.
1:10:28
Becoming qualified isn't really their priority.
1:10:32
You know, it's not that there's guys that are crew bosses there
1:10:35
that have been there for like 20 years, that those are their
1:10:38
guys. And you're just a warm body.
1:10:40
You know, it's, it's very much like buddy, buddy, like bro
1:10:45
deal, it's who who's liked better, blah, blah, blah.
1:10:49
And you know, I could get complex in all kinds of ways,
1:10:52
but not to say that the federal government's perfect, but like,
1:10:57
I mean, I could personally tell you like, we're all getting
1:11:00
trained up. There's everybody is getting
1:11:03
trained across the board. There's nobody getting held
1:11:05
back. They are actively training
1:11:08
people up to take these roles. Have you got, have you guys seen
1:11:12
a, are you personally, have you seen a with just like the change
1:11:17
of things happening in like a lot of government spending being
1:11:20
cut, has that affected you guys? Not us specifically, because I
1:11:26
mean, if if they're cutting us and we have big problem, like
1:11:29
they're reaching up high and not even to our own horn, but like
1:11:35
if you're, if you're firing Hotshots and damn, who's safe
1:11:38
really at that point? Right, right.
1:11:41
You're not low hanging fruit. No, I mean, we work very hard to
1:11:47
be where we are, where we're at. You know, like it's not just
1:11:51
like us saying, oh, we're, we're like the tits.
1:11:57
It's we work really hard to be you're.
1:11:59
Legitimate hot shots you're not. We're not hot shots.
1:12:02
We're legitimate. Hot shots, you know, when people
1:12:04
get called out, we want to do this job because we want to be
1:12:07
the first ones in there. We want to be the ones in the
1:12:10
dark hole working our balls off. Like that's what we do it for.
1:12:13
Have you had any close calls? Define close calls.
1:12:17
I mean, I haven't personally almost died that's.
1:12:19
Freaky moments where you're like, whoa.
1:12:21
And you had to like, Oh, yeah, that got close.
1:12:23
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
1:12:25
Is there any, is there like a story that you can recall that
1:12:29
was like there's a lot of core memory?
1:12:32
What's the first one that pops? I mean, the nature of the job is
1:12:36
to be as safe as possible, right?
1:12:37
So like if you're having close calls often, then you probably
1:12:40
you're doing something wrong. You're doing something wrong.
1:12:42
Yeah. So like a lot, I mean, so much
1:12:45
of our job is assessing like the job previous to us actually
1:12:50
doing it. Like it's our life is worth much
1:12:53
more than literally anything we're doing out there, right?
1:12:56
We're not going to die for trees, Like we love trees, but
1:12:59
is it worth a single one of our lives?
1:13:01
No, not at all. Is a house worth our life?
1:13:03
No, I, I don't think there's anything you could say that is
1:13:07
worth a single life. So that that's ingrained in us
1:13:09
from the start, like, yeah, we're going to give it hell, but
1:13:13
now to the point where we're going to be in danger.
1:13:16
And especially where you're a leader and you're going to put
1:13:19
other people in danger, that's a big no no, big no no, you know.
1:13:23
And so if you're making a lot of mistakes, you probably shouldn't
1:13:25
be leading folks. You know, there's something to
1:13:28
be said about like somebody that works really hard and
1:13:31
everything's less about the safety being a really bad ass
1:13:34
worker. But is he the best leader for
1:13:38
you? But somebody that maybe isn't as
1:13:40
productive and has a more objective view of things, maybe
1:13:44
a little more reserved, less gung ho, that maybe is better at
1:13:50
looking at things objectively. You know, being able to say it's
1:13:53
we've gone too far, let's pull back.
1:13:55
Being the one to say I don't want to drop this tree versus
1:13:57
the. One, do you do that?
1:13:58
Do you have to make? I'm the.
1:14:00
I'm the one that's. Making that.
1:14:02
That would rather do the job then.
1:14:06
Then tell people how to do the job.
1:14:07
Yeah, I want to. If I see a burning tree, I'm
1:14:10
going to look for reasons to burn and to cut it down rather
1:14:13
than then explain why I don't want to.
1:14:18
And I mean, I've done it long enough to where I, I do know the
1:14:24
line between putting my neck out too much, you know, and I think
1:14:29
that it's important to learn that, that line, but it takes a
1:14:35
long time to be able to recognize like when you can say
1:14:40
no, when you could deny a job. But for me it was like, I'm not
1:14:44
denying anything ever. I'm doing ever.
1:14:46
I'm cutting every tree. But you know, that's, that's
1:14:48
dangerous. That's a dangerous place to be
1:14:50
too. You can end up dead like that.
1:14:52
And so like training me was a lot of times to like slow, slow
1:14:57
the fuck down makes so like you need to look at this more
1:15:00
objectively versus like, come on, we need you to do more.
1:15:05
Like what do you? Are you scared?
1:15:07
Totally. It was always like, hey.
1:15:10
Hey, slow down. Yeah, you're fearless out here.
1:15:13
So we we want this episode to come out pretty soon, so.
1:15:18
OK, Q Dramatic cut here. This episode is brought to you
1:15:23
by Dead Camera Batteries. May we always have a few more in
1:15:27
our backpacks. Enjoy.
1:15:29
Need. To hear your oh shit I got.
1:15:33
OK, so action so we want this episode to come out really soon
1:15:39
as fire season is starting here in Southern Oregon in Northern
1:15:43
California. You go your fire season starts
1:15:46
tomorrow. You go out on.
1:15:48
Yeah, I'm going to the Klamath on Tuesday.
1:15:49
Good morning. So we really want people to know
1:15:55
how what I worded this so much better off camera.
1:16:01
What do people need to know about fires, fighting fires, how
1:16:07
fires are managed, how we can be good stewards of forests and
1:16:11
fires, why fire is important in the landscape.
1:16:15
And though while you're fighting fire and trying to prevent fire,
1:16:19
we do still need fire, It is a natural part of the ecosystem,
1:16:25
and a healthy forest does require fire.
1:16:30
So yeah, what do, what do people need to know about fires, fire
1:16:35
season, fire safety and forest ecology in terms of how
1:16:40
fireworks with it? I think first of all, people
1:16:42
need to be responsible. That's like the number one.
1:16:46
Not burning things inappropriately.
1:16:50
Not tossing flammables out their window while they're driving.
1:16:54
So like, I think most, most fires are human caused.
1:16:58
We're a blight on the land, right?
1:17:01
But there's also lightning fires, which I'll get to
1:17:04
afterwards, which are the biggest cause, like natural
1:17:08
fires, which, you know, it's part of the environment.
1:17:13
But we're not helping out my dragging chain, throwing
1:17:18
cigarettes out, having baby reveal parties with pyrotechnic
1:17:23
devices, throwing fireworks into a drainage, burning your mom's
1:17:29
car because you're mad at her and you just got out of prison
1:17:33
for the past 24 years. And.
1:17:34
These are real scenarios. Scenarios 400,000 acres was
1:17:38
burned last year because the guy burnt of a vehicle and threw it
1:17:42
into a drainage and it blew up into the biggest fire last year
1:17:47
just for no reason. Wow.
1:17:48
Destroyed people's homes like beautiful areas that won't
1:17:55
bounce back for hundreds of years.
1:17:57
But number one, be responsible. Don't be a Dick bag like listen
1:18:04
to Smokey Bear put your fires out.
1:18:07
Just make sure that you are not the reason that's something like
1:18:12
that. People are putting themselves in
1:18:13
danger to stop these fires because we will we are going to
1:18:17
be there every single time that we that's just our job.
1:18:22
We're going to do it, but it doesn't have to be as hard as it
1:18:27
is sometimes as far as prevention goes, that stuff that
1:18:33
you're going to have to do previous to the fire season.
1:18:36
At this point, responsibility is a priority because there's going
1:18:42
to be days where the wind is in red flag warnings, the
1:18:47
temperature is very hot, and any little amber is going to 'cause
1:18:53
some catastrophic fire start burning.
1:18:56
And that's going to be beyond our capabilities.
1:18:59
You know, like we're going to try our butts off, but we're not
1:19:02
going to put people in danger to the point there they might die.
1:19:06
You know, like that priority is human life.
1:19:09
So take that how it how it is. And another thing is that just
1:19:17
because you see it column in the in the distance doesn't mean
1:19:21
that people are dying, babies are getting thrown off of cliffs
1:19:24
and the world is ending. Like don't listen to the media.
1:19:28
It's I understand that they that they serve a purpose to make the
1:19:34
public aware that it's an issue, but fires part of the
1:19:39
environment and sometimes you're going to see a column in in the
1:19:45
distance and it does column smoke.
1:19:48
OK, huge column of smoke, which is like, oh man, you see in the
1:19:52
distance sometimes a real mean looking and, and a lot of times
1:19:55
it's the real mean looking. It's probably a wildfire because
1:19:57
like literally our RX burns are not supposed to be sending
1:20:01
columns that, that dark. Usually if they're really dark
1:20:06
looking and they're sheared and and they're miles long, that's
1:20:09
not a. That's not a.
1:20:10
That's not a prescribed burn. That's it's probably some kind
1:20:15
of wind event pushing somebody's irresponsibility and we can't do
1:20:21
anything at that point. It's it's running miles.
1:20:25
We're not putting ourselves. We just physically cannot at
1:20:28
that point. We're battling nature and nature
1:20:31
is going to win 100% of the times.
1:20:33
The only times we win are when nature takes a respite and we're
1:20:38
able to start pinching away. We start a fire, like we start
1:20:42
fighting a fire by buying one tiny little area where the wind
1:20:48
isn't when it's not pushing, it's dark, it's wet.
1:20:53
Like if we get just one tiny little anchor and work off that
1:20:57
little bit at a time getting around fire, but if that wind
1:21:01
shifts, we're going to lose it. There's nothing we can do to a
1:21:04
60 mile per hour wind. So we're trying our butts off,
1:21:06
but the elements are going to win every single time, so.
1:21:10
You can only win the fire when nature allows you to.
1:21:13
Exactly. At the end of the day, yeah,
1:21:15
it's we're, we're fighting nature and it's going to win
1:21:21
every time. But you know, we're going to be
1:21:24
out there anyways. I think a lot of times in the
1:21:27
news I, I feel like when I'm hearing of a wildfire that's
1:21:32
somewhere near, you know, they're like, it's only 2%
1:21:36
contained and then the next day it's like 3%, like it's slow up
1:21:41
and it just gained this many miles and they, it's like very
1:21:44
fear oriented around it. But then I feel like I have
1:21:48
been, I've watched a couple documentaries, I've had a few,
1:21:52
I've dated a few wildland firefighters.
1:21:54
And they're like, we're like briefing in a meeting.
1:21:58
Like that might sound scary on the news, but like, for the most
1:22:01
part, we have this generalized plan, Plan B, Plan C, and
1:22:06
everybody's working together and like doing our best here.
1:22:10
And it's not as like crazy as the media.
1:22:13
Yeah, definitely. It definitely isn't like that's
1:22:16
we try when we get together and it's hundreds of us at a, at a
1:22:20
campfire, it's at a fire camp. It's us trying to make sense of
1:22:26
a complex situation that we have no control over.
1:22:30
We just try to make some kind of sense and we come up with those
1:22:33
plans based on like terrain, weather that's coming up this
1:22:39
week, types of resources that we have.
1:22:43
And, and that all goes into this like weird little containment
1:22:47
number that is always thrown around.
1:22:49
Like people are like, oh man, it's only 2% saying it's 98%
1:22:53
blowing up, but it's, it's like super subjective based on like
1:22:57
individual ICS and, and it's also influenced by politics.
1:23:03
You know what I mean? Like you're not going to get
1:23:04
resources allocated to a fire that's already dead.
1:23:09
But I've seen countless fires. I mean, I've seen catfires that
1:23:12
like are supposedly like 50% contained that are just dead
1:23:16
and, and, and they're getting mopped up.
1:23:18
Like, there's a lot of politics that go into how fires are
1:23:23
portrayed in the media and. With the intentions of
1:23:28
redirecting funding. Yeah, a lot of it is redirecting
1:23:30
funding. Unfortunately, the public is, is
1:23:35
are those that suffer the most because they have they, they
1:23:37
know less, you know, like they're not aware of what the
1:23:40
fire is actually doing. They just see the smoke in the
1:23:42
background and they're at the mercy of other folks that are
1:23:46
disseminating this information. But.
1:23:48
Maybe they're getting evacuation orders and that puts them with a
1:23:51
little bit more aware attunement to what's going on because they
1:23:55
may need to pack up and leave their home.
1:23:59
But if they're just on the periphery of the incident, then
1:24:03
it's just numbers on the media. Right.
1:24:05
And there's certain, the good thing about that I've seen
1:24:09
lately about social media is that there's like ODF and DFPA
1:24:15
and he's like local firefighting resources that are really good
1:24:19
at putting, putting up like public information sites on
1:24:24
social media that. ODF being Oregon Department of
1:24:26
Forestry, Oregon. Department the Douglas Forestry
1:24:29
Protection Association, like Oregon, is blessed to have the
1:24:33
firefighting machine that it had like it that.
1:24:36
That came out of because we were having terrible wildfires
1:24:40
without communication, yeah, and people were saying we need to
1:24:44
know what the fuck is going on. Oregon loves its forests in one
1:24:48
way or another. Just that either as a as a
1:24:50
resource. Extraction resource.
1:24:53
Because the it's a huge industry in here in Washington and what
1:24:58
you know, be that as it may like it's, it's an important part of
1:25:02
the fabric of the Pacific Northwest.
1:25:05
Absolutely. And people will protect that.
1:25:07
And on top of that, a lot of everybody loves the forest here.
1:25:11
It's part of Oregon. It's.
1:25:12
Recreation, it's it's home. It's what we associate with If
1:25:16
You Live. Here you love the forest, You
1:25:18
know, like, so I think again, this area is blessed with the
1:25:22
firefighters that it has. I think it's it's like this
1:25:26
concentration of people that really appreciate what they have
1:25:30
and they will go to war for it. And I mean, that's a little
1:25:34
dramatic. But they'll go to battle for
1:25:37
sure. There's a constant string of
1:25:39
young kids that are going to always fight fire.
1:25:42
Always and you know, that's something beautiful about this
1:25:45
community. You know, they grow up in here,
1:25:48
so they will go out there to protect it and it's it's just
1:25:51
going to be a constant thing and and that you know, that goes all
1:25:55
the way up the politics as they are like people will say certain
1:26:01
things about different organizations that fight fire.
1:26:03
Everybody has something to say about each other, but I, I found
1:26:08
that local smaller organizations are really good about keeping,
1:26:14
not keeping information from the public.
1:26:17
You know, like I follow along and all these like public
1:26:21
information pages just to read like exactly how everything is
1:26:25
going. Like they'll tell you actively
1:26:27
like they have IR maps and they're posting them
1:26:29
immediately. They're telling you where the
1:26:31
fire is burning, who's under evacuation or is like the
1:26:35
intensity of the fire, where the fire is burning.
1:26:38
Like that's important stuff that should be available to everybody
1:26:42
on every fire. And, and it's, that's
1:26:44
information that's available to us really.
1:26:46
And often times, I don't know if often times, I mean, I don't
1:26:50
know anything besides the fires that I'm on.
1:26:52
I'm not looking at every single map and IP and I just don't have
1:26:56
the mental strength to look at all of it.
1:26:58
But for the most part, we have all that information as people
1:27:01
on the ground. So I think all that being
1:27:04
available to people is important.
1:27:06
People should be able to disseminate their own
1:27:08
information themselves and it should all be available, which
1:27:10
it is. I think maybe the databases need
1:27:13
to be more available to folks like User.
1:27:16
Friendly. Yeah, user friendly for sure,
1:27:18
because even for for us, I mean it takes a couple of years to
1:27:21
kind of get a hold of how to do it, but I could list off all the
1:27:24
websites that are available to people to the public.
1:27:27
Maybe you can give us a little list and we can post it under
1:27:30
your. Video, totally.
1:27:31
Yeah, I have a few more. Yep, definitely.
1:27:34
They're out there. Even on Facebook, they're out
1:27:38
there. They even here in Southern
1:27:39
Oregon, every time there's a fire, there's a Facebook page
1:27:42
that pops up specifically for the fire, and that's the local
1:27:45
resource that are posting that. What do you think about the
1:27:48
people that post up and sell T-shirts outside of?
1:27:52
I have quite a few T-shirts, but trust me, I understand.
1:27:56
You know, that's controversial. It absolutely is controversial.
1:27:59
They're making money. I mean, I have a few.
1:28:01
Man, they say make money off of us like crazy.
1:28:04
They're like souvenir shirts for the.
1:28:05
Fire, you know, until for us personally, it's like, dude,
1:28:08
I've busted my butt on this fire.
1:28:09
I'm gonna buy, I'm gonna sleep in this shirt, you know, like,
1:28:13
but also if you take the same like the same shirts, I wore it,
1:28:18
it is weird because now I wear it and I take it to my federal
1:28:22
employment office and they're like, you fucking bagger, what
1:28:24
are you wearing, dude? Like that.
1:28:26
It feels weird doing it. It's a whole different
1:28:29
environment, you know? But I don't take it back, you
1:28:32
know, Like it reminds me of the work that I've done for me, but
1:28:36
I'm not like, I don't really wear them.
1:28:38
Everywhere, but that's like a little private mom pop shop that
1:28:41
does that will. Pop up, there's a there's like a
1:28:44
couple little mom and pop shops that yeah, that benefit off of
1:28:47
us real little fire chasers. Little It reminds me of like
1:28:51
when like a like a little sea Barnacle clamps on to.
1:28:58
An invasive. Nowhere.
1:29:00
Snail. And then they sell us a friggin
1:29:03
hoodie for 60 bucks. Like, are you kidding me?
1:29:05
Yeah, I'm gonna pay 60 bucks. But they're like, oh, I know how
1:29:07
much your money you're making on this, on this paycheck.
1:29:09
Give me 60 bucks for this personal.
1:29:11
Life. And then you want one for your
1:29:12
wife, For your Yeah. Exactly.
1:29:14
All that like I mean I was a girlfriend and I benefited and
1:29:17
got a pink the hoodie of the I can't remember what fire it was.
1:29:20
I don't have it anymore like biscuit.
1:29:22
I think like. Oh man, long time ago.
1:29:24
That was, well, vintage. That's vintage.
1:29:26
Yeah, that was the big one. Yeah, that was the that was the
1:29:29
first fire in Southern Oregon that really.
1:29:31
That woke everybody up, yeah. I was a bit younger, I think it
1:29:34
was, I can't remember, but there was another one after that.
1:29:40
Cuz biscuit was like 2003, 2002, 2002 Yeah the.
1:29:44
Scar. Still in middle school, Our
1:29:45
middle school was an evacuation site.
1:29:48
That's. Right.
1:29:49
Our middle school gym was a was a evacuation site for folks out
1:29:53
of the Illinois Valley. There was one where I won't
1:29:58
speak his name, who I was dating, that's with AD but.
1:30:02
He was working a fire and he was.
1:30:04
Stationed up at Lake Selmac, so it was still somewhere out here
1:30:08
and I got like a pink hoodie. Weird though.
1:30:12
He's like, that shit's weird. But it's like, it's like a
1:30:15
souvenir kind of a. Souvenir.
1:30:17
But it's not like something that you wanna like show off.
1:30:21
Yeah, it. Was not a trophy.
1:30:22
You just made. Money on the fact that I lost my
1:30:24
whole livelihood in this fire. Fuck you.
1:30:27
Yeah, that was the. It definitely, yeah, absolutely.
1:30:30
I understand that for sure. But yeah, it's more like a
1:30:34
personal thing like you wear around the house, like yeah,
1:30:37
you're it's a memento, but that don't wear it out.
1:30:41
Maybe it's like people lost things.
1:30:45
It's like having a shirt that says World War 2 maybe.
1:30:49
Don't show us what you gained from our loss.
1:30:51
Right, Exactly. Yeah.
1:30:53
And I think that's honestly that deserves a conversation in
1:30:56
itself, you know, because the fire industry, like people, I
1:31:02
make my money fighting fires, but I need there to be a fire.
1:31:07
But at the same time, I don't want fires to happen like but
1:31:13
I'm paid either way. I'm a full time employee.
1:31:15
I'm paid to do prevention, I'm paid to burn, I'm paid to drop
1:31:18
snags. Like I have the full job.
1:31:22
So I'm not just depending on fire.
1:31:24
But I mean, there's also been on call firefighters who have
1:31:29
become arsonists because they're fiending for a paycheck.
1:31:34
But The funny thing about that is it doesn't matter if you
1:31:36
start a fire, it doesn't mean that you're gonna get called.
1:31:39
If you're probably starting a fire, it's cuz you're super low
1:31:42
on the list. And even this fire that you
1:31:44
start is gonna cause a big roll out of resources, but you're
1:31:50
probably still not going to get called.
1:31:51
So that's rough. That's a.
1:31:53
Thing. It's an incredibly stupid,
1:31:55
stupid, stupid thing to. Do and that happens every once
1:31:58
in a blue moon or more often. Than not yeah every once in a
1:32:01
while you'll see oh certain certain firefighter or or
1:32:07
certain guy is arrested for arson and he has like a red card
1:32:12
from so and so place from. Oh wow.
1:32:16
It's happened and a lot of people, you know, be like, oh,
1:32:19
that's all firefighters or hot shots are starting fires.
1:32:22
But in reality, like what? I don't have anything to gain
1:32:25
from starting a fire like there's.
1:32:27
Plenty of other natural and idiotic occurrences that are
1:32:31
starting fires that you don't need to go out and purposely
1:32:35
start a fire just to and. You can get shipped out to
1:32:39
Montana again even like so. Specifically as a hot shot.
1:32:42
I have nothing to gain from starting.
1:32:45
I'm gonna get mine. I'm gonna.
1:32:46
I'm leaving tomorrow or Tuesday. Like where you going?
1:32:50
I'm going to just the Klamath National Forest.
1:32:53
We're doing an RX burn. At least that's what the
1:32:55
resource order says. But we can get there and they
1:32:57
could send us somewhere else. So we're off and running.
1:33:00
We're gunning. Fun.
1:33:02
Well, and how long will it be until you come back?
1:33:05
Well, we leave with prepared to be gone for 14 days.
1:33:10
OK, Yeah. And then you get a little bit of
1:33:12
time off. Yeah, then you get 3 days off
1:33:15
and then you become available again.
1:33:17
So hopefully this is the start of a whole season again.
1:33:20
Like I don't want this to burn, but it doesn't matter.
1:33:22
I'm gonna go somewhere. I just want to go somewhere and
1:33:25
do some work. But are you feeling like itch?
1:33:28
Itchy. Ready to get out?
1:33:29
Ready to get going? It's time to.
1:33:31
Go. It's time.
1:33:31
Yeah, I'm ripping. I'm ready to go.
1:33:34
We've put a lot of preparation and do it.
1:33:36
We've just been working out for months on end and we've been
1:33:40
preparing. I've been taking classes.
1:33:41
I'm ready to go. I'm ready to just be in the
1:33:43
dirt, just digging and sleeping on the dirt for months, months
1:33:47
on end. Wow, that's really amazing.
1:33:50
We're gonna kind of tie us up here.
1:33:53
Before we get into like our final like recap and final
1:33:56
questions. Do we have any burning questions
1:34:00
from the audience? As one of our main listeners,
1:34:04
you know what you want to hear from episodes.
1:34:07
Do you have any questions chomping at your bit that we
1:34:11
should get Miguel to answer before we tie things up?
1:34:17
No, because I only want to ask him to tell you about the
1:34:20
embarrassing stuff, the gross stuff, the nasty stuff, the
1:34:23
weird voice stuff. We could talk about that on the
1:34:25
way out. Yeah, we can.
1:34:27
We can do that on our walk out for sure the the Nasty Boy fire
1:34:31
camp. Interesting, That's what I live.
1:34:34
For what life is like in a fire camp.
1:34:36
That's what you like to hear about it Hear about.
1:34:38
I think it's like really like blows your mind.
1:34:41
And it's worth noting that he's like, sleeps in the dirt, the
1:34:46
actual dirt, no tent, nothing. Just the ground.
1:34:48
Like over 100 days a year. Sleeping in the dirt over 100
1:34:52
days a year. No tent, no sleeping pad.
1:34:56
Sleeping pad. OK, that's in pad.
1:34:57
Sleeping pad. Look at our.
1:34:59
Brand new sleeping. Pad.
1:35:01
Yeah, sleeping pad now yeah, I got a good sleeping bag too just
1:35:04
recently. I've been using my last one for
1:35:06
five years but wow, about one. Talk about the time you.
1:35:09
Had to sleep under. The truck.
1:35:11
Oh yeah, the time. Now houses blew over.
1:35:16
The multiple times they blew over all the.
1:35:19
Nasty, dirty details. OK, we'll do dirty details on
1:35:22
the walkout. Cool sounds.
1:35:23
Good. That'll that will be a nice wrap
1:35:25
up. Yeah, let's do your wrap quick.
1:35:27
OK, cool. Thank you, Miguel, for your life
1:35:31
story and for the work that you do.
1:35:33
And really it is, I think it's a really rare honor and
1:35:39
opportunity that you've provided us to come out and tell us
1:35:42
everything that you have because fire season is busy and not just
1:35:48
you, but all firefighters are working really hard and do that
1:35:52
work, not necessarily because they want to talk to people.
1:35:55
So thank you for for having this conversation and sharing,
1:35:59
sharing your story and giving us and whoever decides to listen a
1:36:05
little glimpse into what the path to firefighting looks like
1:36:10
and what it looks like to be in on the inside of a fire.
1:36:13
I really, really appreciate. I'm flattered inside.
1:36:16
I don't. I don't think I'm that
1:36:18
interesting. I know a lot of people that are
1:36:21
better than me at a lot of things and are probably more
1:36:24
interesting. Sure, but but.
1:36:27
You're interesting too. You have a really great story,
1:36:29
I. Appreciate it.
1:36:30
Comparison is a thief of joy and you are amazing and unique and
1:36:35
brilliant in all that you are and worthy of this time and
1:36:39
space to Share your story. So.
1:36:41
I appreciate you guys. What you guys do.
1:36:43
Yeah, I really do. We want to know if people want
1:36:48
to learn more about you or connect with you or the work
1:36:51
that you do. Where and how can they find you?
1:36:55
So there's for my work, there's a couple links that you could
1:36:59
probably provide. Grassroots Firefighters is a
1:37:05
group that works on making sure that firefighters are taken care
1:37:10
of like and then that that's like in the political arena and
1:37:16
within circles that not necessarily US ground powder
1:37:18
pounders are the best at, you know, like I, I couldn't begin
1:37:23
to speak of policy because it spins my head and but.
1:37:27
Even with the poli sci minor. Right.
1:37:29
Exactly. But it's like so much and it's
1:37:32
constantly moving that without people that are willing to spend
1:37:37
that time to protect us and to make sure that we're all right,
1:37:40
you know, like we want to be able to do this job.
1:37:43
Like, and those people did this job too, you know, and they
1:37:47
recognize what it takes to want to do this job.
1:37:50
And, and for them to be out there fighting for us is means
1:37:54
the world really to everybody because we wouldn't be here, we
1:37:57
wouldn't still have folks that are willing to do this if it
1:37:59
wasn't for people like them. Do you do any documentation of
1:38:03
your fires? Any photos sharing on Instagram,
1:38:06
Instagram or anything? I have an Instagram 100 megs.
1:38:11
Link it is it? Public.
1:38:13
Yeah, it's public cool. Yep.
1:38:14
I just I post a lot of like non context and stories and pictures
1:38:20
every now and again. I don't post too much but every
1:38:23
once in a while I do real cool stuff.
1:38:25
I figure people get tired of seeing burning trees though, so.
1:38:29
Do you get tired of seeing burning trees so people?
1:38:31
That don't continue to post the burning trees.
1:38:34
Yeah, I will. You should.
1:38:36
Real cool views like this too, I try to post them.
1:38:41
Awesome, great. Excited deep squat.
1:38:43
Well, when our last well, introspective question when your
1:38:49
body expires and you are no longer alive on this earth in
1:38:52
this form, how do you want people to remember you?
1:38:57
Or how do you want the earth to remember you?
1:39:00
How do you want to be remembered?
1:39:03
Still a good person, somebody who tried hard, do his best.
1:39:09
That's about it. They're very passion driven and
1:39:12
yeah, you have very distinct purpose.
1:39:16
Yeah. And it show it came out yeah,
1:39:19
1000% in this conversation and I'm going to remember that of
1:39:23
you. Even if we don't hang out again,
1:39:25
we'll we're going to be hanging out because.
1:39:27
We're friends, yeah. I'm just saying if I left this
1:39:31
and we never chatted again, that guy is purpose and passion
1:39:36
driven and holy shit we need more people like that doing what
1:39:40
they love. Thank you.
1:39:42
Yeah, it really your story and a lot of the stories that we are
1:39:49
getting to hear. What is really standing out for
1:39:52
me is that people, children are feeling pressure to find freedom
1:40:01
and to find an outlet for their energy and to find a reason for
1:40:06
being alive at a very, very young age.
1:40:10
Starting almost everybody's story is like by age 4 I was
1:40:15
looking for what am I doing with my life?
1:40:18
Why am I here? Where can I go to be to find
1:40:22
myself? And that that is, I think, a
1:40:26
really prominent threat in. Your story, Yeah.
1:40:29
Of being so young and feeling unrooted.
1:40:34
Yeah. And trying to figure out who you
1:40:35
are, what you're doing, why you're here, and what that's
1:40:38
gonna mean. Roots now, yeah.
1:40:40
Yeah, finally took me a long time just.
1:40:42
Like your tattoo on your hand? Exactly.
1:40:44
No, that's relevant. That's 100%.
1:40:47
I did think of that. That's so cool.
1:40:49
I'm not. I'm not losing those roots,
1:40:51
that's for sure. Yeah.
1:40:51
That's why I say like, I'm gonna die right here.
1:40:53
I'm gonna die right here. Right here, yeah, But still
1:40:56
being able to like, move and flex.
1:40:58
I love the symbolism of a tree, of being rooted and strong and
1:41:04
sturdy but still being able to flex with the wind and kind of.
1:41:08
Should if needed. Grow and morph and become all
1:41:15
that you are. Yep.
1:41:17
But it's still a part of a community.
1:41:18
Yeah, yeah. Still, even an individual tree
1:41:21
is part of a network of rooted, connected trees.
1:41:25
Sticks. Sticks.
1:41:27
Live sticks. Living sticks.
1:41:29
Living Sticks. Protecting sticks.
1:41:30
Dude, look at this view behind us and the sun popping out for a
1:41:34
hot minute. You asked for the sun.
1:41:36
That's. What I needed I was getting a
1:41:37
little. Cold.
1:41:38
Yeah, it was a little short. Beautiful.
1:41:42
Thank you for bringing us here too.
1:41:45
Kind of a secret little spot, yeah.
1:41:47
Thank you. Oh yeah, I know.
1:41:49
I'm going to bring my husband out.
1:41:51
Yeah. Yeah, I got to remember on my
1:41:52
way how to get down. Here I'll drop a pen.
1:41:56
I'll send you guys like a map or something.
1:41:59
Thank you. Thank you for that.
1:42:00
Yeah. We'll tell you kind of where we
1:42:02
are, but not how to get here. Yeah.
1:42:05
Thank you for sharing, sharing this place with us.
1:42:08
Your your office essentially. Right.
1:42:11
Everybody's office. Yeah, yeah, it's our office.
1:42:14
Fuck yeah. Yeah.
1:42:15
Squat time deep. Squat to shake off the the
1:42:19
chair. Oh.
1:42:21
Yeah, way good way. Gooder, don't fall.
1:42:26
Reddit film edited and produced by Heather White and Emily
1:42:29
Berlant. The Go Wildly music is Rainmaker
1:42:32
by Jared Masters. Special thanks to Miguel
1:42:34
Narvaez. Recorded on location in the
1:42:36
Rogue River Siski National Forest.
1:42:38
Thanks for listening. Please follow, like, subscribe,
1:42:40
and of course, share. New episodes drop every Friday.
1:42:44
Remember to rate and review. Find us at Go Wildly podcast
1:42:47
everywhere.