Latest / How Have You Not Seen This? / Episode 9: Moonstruck
Transcript
- Kate: I participated in science fairs. I definitely made a solar system diorama and volcanoes that you put, was it Miriam: Yeah. Kate: baking soda and vinegar down, that kind of thing. Miriam: Ooh, I loved a diorama. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: I love to diorama. They're the best. Kate: Yeah, I feel like you 100% would have participated, and they definitely happened. You've just blocked them from your memory. Miriam: I only remember I remember making Leslye: What diorama were you doing, Miriam? Miriam: a diorama where I did constellations and mine was Cassiopeia. Leslye: Cassiopeia. Miriam: Cassiopeia. Yeah, see? But I well Kate: Well, I was the little dipper. Okay, see, I think we did have a science fair and we had to do something based on from your science class. Miriam: call it was competition. I think it was just a love of the solar system and constellations. I think I did it for fun. Or or you Kate: It you just did this for fun. This was not a homework assignment. Miriam: it was a homework assignment, but we were not made to compete against each other. Like the Hunger Games. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam's like, I volunteer as tribute. Miriam: Anyhow. Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: With my constellation, Cassiopeia. Cassiopeia. Leslye: Anyway Cassiopeia. Welcome to How Have You Not Seen This, a podcast about crimes against cinema, where one of the three of us confesses there is an iconic movie we have never seen, and the other two ask the only logical question, How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: The format is simple. There's a confession, an interrogation, atonement, and absolution. At the end of all of this, we'll ask the pivotal question, can we still be friends? We are doing a Nicolas Cage trifecta all three of us have picked a a Nic Cage movie that we haven't seen. The film this week is a movie that won Cher and Oscar, and that's all I fucking know about it. I have never seen Moonstruck. Miriam: You really don't know anything else about this movie and how it features Leslye: No, I know a couple about Miriam: and culture? Leslye: in culture, I know that she won an Oscar. I know she wore something crazy but iconic Miriam: Mm. Leslye: and amazing. And more people should be wearing that. so I know that. I know Snap out of it! I know that. Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: I'm pretty sure that Nic Cage doesn't have an arm or a hand or something, which is so stupid to me, but whatever. what else do I know about this movie? I know Olympia Dukakis is in it, and she's a national treasure, so I'm looking forward to that. Miriam: Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Leslye: I think the plot has something to do with her, Being a widow or getting away from an abusive husband. I feel like everyone's Italian, which feels weird to me. there are Miriam: Why does it feel weird? Leslye: is anyone actually Italian in the movie? Nic Cage is Italian because he his last name is actually Coppola. and he changed it. Miriam: Hmm. Fun fact. Leslye: Fun fact for all those kids out there that don't care. So Miriam: Mm. Leslye: is Cher Italian? Miriam: Well, we're about to find out. Leslye: We're gonna about to find out. We're about to find out. Okay, Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: okay. All right. Miriam: why haven't you seen this movie? Kate: Why haven't you? W what were you doing? Leslye: Cause it look 'cause it looks stupid. it looks it just Kate: Is it do you remember Miriam: Ha Kate: do you can you picture the movie poster? Is it the movie poster that they're doing off? Leslye: yeah, it's her being like Kate: Yeah. Miriam: It's her being like arm stretched and snap out of it. And you were like, nope, Kate: Yeah. Miriam: nope, not for me, Leslye: I was like, I can't with this. I just Miriam: nope. Leslye: it looked so dumb. I don't know enough about it to say it's dumb, it's just one of those movies people were like, I love that movie. And I was like, is it about a woman throwing her hands up in the air and maybe being Italian? Miriam: she just don't care. I I think it's funny though, it was also a late 80s film. And I just love the idea of young Leslye being like, so stupid. I'm not watching that movie. You're also Leslye: That is true. Yeah. Miriam: probably not allowed to watch it, so Leslye: I Kate: I know, I can't wait to figure out which part of this we think was the reason you weren't allowed to watch it. That's why I'm more curious about. Miriam: that's always a big poison. Yeah. Leslye: That's a really good segment for my movies. Miriam: Yeah. Why was Leslye Leslye: why was Miriam: not allowed to see this movie? Leslye: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kate: this one. 'Cause it's rated P G. Miriam: Kate, do we think Leslye will like this movie? What's our prediction? Kate: No. I do not. Leslye: He Miriam: Interesting. Kate: Because one, I think you're going Miriam: Interesting. Interesting. Kate: in with a preconceived notion of stupidity and you're gonna Leslye: Mm. Miriam: Yeah. Kate: look for every opportunity for your point to be proved correct. I think there there's that. But I but you will you are a Leslye: Well okay. Okay, that's valid. Kate: person who will admit when you're wrong. I haven't seen this movie in a long time, but I think the things that you're saying right now that you think make it stupid are gonna be amplified when you watch it. But Miriam: I Kate: but you might surprise me. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: go out on a limb and say that Cher will win over Leslye. I have some faith that Cher will win you over. Leslye: Well, I don't disagree with that 'cause I love Cher I do. Yeah. Miriam: There's a there yeah, there's a strong possibility here. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: So I feel safe in my prediction. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. What do Leslye: All right. Okay. Well Kate: Find out. Miriam: you think, Leslye? Are you prepared to loathe or love? Okay. Leslye: I don't think I'm gonna like it. I I do think there will be a major element of the movie that I do it'll be Cher or it'll Miriam: Okay, fair. Leslye: be the plot or it'll be Nic Cage or the premise of it. I think I'm not gonna like the movie, but I'm gonna like something that's like integral Kate: Elements. Leslye: to the structure of the movie. That's what I Miriam: Okay. Leslye: think. Miriam: All right. I like it. When we come back, Leslye will have seen Moonstruck. We're back. And now, Leslye, you have seen Moonstruck. Leslye: I've seen Moonstruck now. Miriam: Thoughts? Leslye: I loved it. Kate: What'd you think? Leslye: I loved it. Kate: Yay, Miriam: wish and hope was so scared. Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: I was scared, you guys. I was like I Because on rewatch, Leslye: Ha ha. Miriam: I loved it even more than when I originally saw it. Yes, Kate: whoa. Okay. Miriam: yeah. And I think Leslye: It's Miriam: it's because our good friend, Nicolas Cage. Leslye: Nicolas Cage. where should we start? there were so many there were so many things, I didn't love it the way I loved Shawshank where I was like, my god, this is a masterpiece, I can't believe I didn't see it. But but Kate: Yeah, different experience. Leslye: this was one of those wow, I get why it's very iconic. and I'm surprised I hadn't seen it and It's great. It's really, really good. I think it caught me at a really good time in my life too because before when I was back in the city, I was like, I hate New York. I was like, New York is Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: over. It's dead. we were driving by Saint Mark's place and there's a Sephora there and I was like, This is it. We're done. We might as well we might as well be Denver. You know what I mean? At this point. Miriam: Oof Ugh Ugh Yeah. Leslye: I wanna say Denver's a cool city. No no, Denver's Kate: No offense to Denver, but also. Leslye: a it is a cool city, but it's not New York. Miriam: Yeah. d where does Leslye: it was so cool and romantic and totally the New York that I wanted to move to, when I was growing up. Kate: back in the day when Miriam: Mm. Kate: plumbers could buy a house on Cranberry Street, that romantic New York. Miriam: A how a townhouse. Leslye: That apartment, Miriam: Townhouse. But I I think it's fair. Leslye: that that house is so expensive. you I think it's so ex yeah, no Kate: I looked it up. It's like sixteen million dollars or something. It's insane. Miriam: Wow, that is a good second screen fact. Sixteen million dollars. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Well i don't quote me on that, but it was something wild Leslye: yeah. Kate: like that. And I think that's not a far Leslye: No, it was like Kate: off price tag for a townhouse on Cranberry Street. Miriam: When do you guys think that New York died? I think the second where there were banks on every block was really the beginning of the end. Leslye: when I think it died? I think it died when real estate developers just started building those huge, tall buildings that nobody lives Miriam: Mm. Yeah. Leslye: in that oligarchs bought. So now there's no skyline. Kate: billionaire row Leslye: There's no skyline. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: when they showed the New York skyline, I had tears in my eyes. I was like, I love that city. Miriam: so iconic. Leslye: So watching it in the movie, it's really catching me at a good time. Because forty-eight hours Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: ago, I was like, I really miss New York. I really miss New York they just Miriam: Mm. Yeah. Leslye: did a perfect job of maximizing those locations the movie's just firing on all cylinders. the costumes are great, the locations are great, the casting is great. once again, Kate: Good is Cher my gosh. Miriam: The hair? Leslye: here's the thing. I had to warm up to her in the movie because I did feel a little bit like she was a little goofy. the accent she just felt a little like she was performing. it didn't feel super lived in. Kate: Wait, wait, wait. Versus Nicolas Cage, did you find him performer anymore? Leslye: Let me tell you something. Well, that's the thing Miriam: Ha Leslye: is so Miriam: ha! Leslye: because it's an ensemble movie, once the world building, started to coalesce, I really loved her. I was like, I see how she fits. when it was her and Danny Aiello at the beginning, that's when I was like, God, what's this gonna be? And then as her family got folded in and all of that, it was like, this is great. This is great. I'm happy. and then Nic Cage showed up, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: my God. He Kate: Yeah. Leslye: is so hot in this movie, holy shit. he's unhinged in the movie too, but my god, I just couldn't believe it. none of it should be hot. Miriam: how we see him the first time. He's in the bakery, he's sweaty, He's in a tank top. the bread and the flour. I just I really wanted you to see this movie so you could do the line for us. Cause I feel like Leslye would have a good read on I lost my hand, I lost my bride Leslye: I lost my hand. my god. Miriam: Johnny has his hand! Leslye: That's that's Miriam: Johnny has his bride! So good. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: Obsessed. I I was I rewound that part because I was like, this is the Nicolas Cage we all know and love. just again, unhinged. that's when I was like, my god, you can see Miriam: Ha ha ha. Leslye: him in Wicker Man, being like, the bees, the bees, also his real name is Nicolas Coppola. So him being Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: in a really Italian Italian movie was wonderful to see. because he did again, Miriam: He was like Leslye: fit into that ensemble. you believed Kate: Oops. Leslye: he was his brother, you believed that she'd be attracted to him. it was just great. It was a really great movie and this is so theater nerdy, but it's a comedy of manners, The Importance of Being Earnest kind of thing. or Midsummer Night's Dream where everybody's moving in and out and somebody has this thing and somebody's having an affair and then that ends up dovetailing into the main story and that affects the other characters because it just was great in that sense too. it was a really well plotted movie. I think in my head I thought the movie was a pretty woman fantasy about this gal and she's down on her luck but she meets a guy with a I thought his hand had a hook. That's what I thought it was. I also thought my god, what is the tone of this movie Miriam: Ha Leslye: if he has a hook for a hand. so point being, this is not the movie that I thought this was when I looked at the picture of her Miriam: of her running around Brooklyn in her new outfit. With amazing Leslye: Yeah, kicking a can down the street. But I even that moment it's like it can you think of a more New York moment the sun Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: is up, nobody's out except for the people that have real jobs, I can't believe I had not seen it. It's so iconic. Nicolas Cage what is going on, you guys? I really was curious as I was watching it. I was like, what is Miriam and Kate's take on this performance? Miriam: Ha ha ha. Kate: Well, I can tell you what I wrote down in my notes when I was watching it props to Nic Cage for having voluminous chest hair and missing a tooth and still being hot. I was like, I don't know Leslye: I agree with this. That c Miriam: Huh. Kate: how he's doing it. I don't know how he's pulling it off. it was like that opening scene, right? when it's just like the chest hair is flying out of the tank top. he's literally missing a tooth and hand. And he's still hot somehow and I don't know how he's pulling it off. And he's sleeping with his brother's fiance. there's nothing Leslye: And s somehow I don't know. Miriam: You know what it is? Yeah. Kate: really redeeming about this character, but it works. Miriam: No, there is! He loves opera, you guys, he loves opera! He's Leslye: I forgot about that. Yeah. Kate: It's all Miriam: deeply moved by opera! Kate: He's deeply moved by opera. Apologies, I forgot that part. Miriam: He has opera posters and records. Leslye: What? Miriam: I'm saying it I have a problem with it, but I actually love it. I think it's a very funny character detail that I truly love. Kate: I just loved how unmanicured he was in it and also her at the beginning, even though she goes through her little makeover scene, which it was think was very much in the spirit of a woman who's forty in that day and age and not at all what a makeover scene is nowadays. I don't know. It had a grit Leslye: Yeah, I know. Kate: level to it that I was like, I'm still on board. Miriam: it doesn't read as Kate: went and do all this. Miriam: a makeover montage. It it's so Kate: Yeah, it doesn't. Miriam: the thing I really loved about this movie, is that it's so grounded in this family drama and every person in the family has their own story. But it's also a romantic comedy where it's so grounded in the everyday, she finally feels like in love and special and She never says like I'm going to really look good for this date to the opera. it's just all these quiet decisions where she's like, you know what? I'm gonna get my hair done. You know what? I'm gonna buy that dress. it's just so beautiful. Yeah. Leslye: Yes. Kate: Yeah, she's like doing it for herself. Yeah. Leslye: really appreciated that she didn't have a sidekick. That was the other thing I really love. Is she didn't Miriam: Yes, yeah. Kate: Mm, uh-huh. Leslye: she didn't have another girlfriend who was like, Girl, you need to get your hair done. This is really bad that you're sleeping with your brothers. it was like we don't Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: actually need that because we're watching it. it was so refreshing and yeah, you're right. It's like it hits all of these romantic comedy beats, but even the opera, which by the way, Pretty Woman completely rips off question mark. Miriam: What's first? now we have to see what's first. This is first. Okay. Yeah, it's the 90s. Yeah. yeah, they totally well because Leslye: This is first, 'cause pretty woman is ninety one, I think. Or ninety. Miriam: this is what I was thinking during it. why is the opera such a big, portion of this? it's all part of Love Letter to New York. The Met opera is such key part, but I'm also thinking Leslye: It was Miriam: back I guess it was because we had less to do in the 80s and 90s. And were people still enjoyed going to the opera there Yeah, but it was different Kate: people still go to the opera, just super clear. Miriam: back then. There wasn't like your there Leslye: No, it was different. Yeah. Miriam: was no streaming, that was a that was a true date option, the opera, the theater, the movies. Leslye: I agree. And it was also you get dressed up to go to the opera. seeing him in that white full basically white tie or something, it's like not even tuxedo, it's like Miriam: Tails? I Leslye: nothing about Nic Cage in this movie should work. And I it all of it worked for me. every single choice worked for me. Cher is incredible in it. and I really mean this with so much respect to her. it doesn't feel even like a well acted performance as much as she's like luminous. she's very lived in, she's very dropped into this character. But when she's on screen, it's like the birth of cinema. you're just like, this is why we photograph women. It's yeah, absolutely. Stunning. Yes, Elizabeth Taylor or something. And I really Kate: You mean sh charismatic and just be like st visually stunning, that kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: don't mean it as a dig. I just mean she's really good in the movie. Is she better than the other nominees that year? maybe. she was up against some real people, like Holly Hunter in Broadcast News and Glenn Close got nominated for Fatal Attraction. these are really iconic roles also hers is an iconic role. So I was thinking, what what makes this better than those? And I do think the camera just. absolutely adores her and she doesn't overplay that. she's not like mugging or doing it's it was like this is an Italian woman who's a widow who lost her husband, who feels like part of her culture is being married and having a family, which is why the movie ends that way, and again, nobody's standing there like Explaining why that's important in Italian culture. all the scenes tell you that instead of characters doing it because each of these vignettes about the family are so affecting and so loving, funny, bright version of the Godfather, where Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: or Goodfellas where you're like I really wish that I was part of a culture the ending too was so great it's like I like I said I keep thinking of like Oscar Wilder Moliere which is like such a cheesy pretentious thing to say, but everybody's there at the end. everybody shows up and all is revealed and the lovers get together. It was, it was so great. I just am going on about how great the movie was. I feel like it's more fun when you're like, I hated this, Miriam: it's okay to movies, Leslye. It's okay. Kate: why do you think you hadn't seen it before though? especially growing up, is it the infidelity? Was that the Leslye: good question. No, no, no, good question. well, here's what I would say, actually, this is probably what it was. And it's also the reason I didn't see When Harry Met Sally for a long time. My parents were such huge Woody Allen fans, R.I.P. But they were such Woody Allen fans that a movie like that one or When Harry Met Sally is essentially not Woody Allen. those movies don't do Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: what Woody Allen's films do. So Kate: Not Annie Hall. It's yeah. Yeah. Leslye: they're not on it's not Annie Hall honestly the film is a lot like Hannah and Sisters that it's a lot like that Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Leslye: film, although that film is just very Woody Allen. It's like depressing and I think there's an opera in that too. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: So I can imagine that Kate: Yeah. Leslye: either it wasn't on the radar for that reason or my parents saw it and kinda thought, this isn't good enough, I guess. But by the way, Woody Allen is, pull it together, everybody, Miriam: Well, he was. I think also maybe reacting to the fact that her performance is so lived in and family feels so real. I always think I love stories about Italian families because they're so similar to Egyptian families, culturally, it's like the gathering, the food. But I feel like even the Leslye: I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. Miriam: I I think that's why I loved it. I loved at the end when it's that final pan across their apartment, living room. And then we see the it lands on the family photos. I think family is so central is always the type of movie that I'm gonna love. I'm always gonna love it. But it but like to your it's beautiful. Leslye: Yeah. I was yeah, it was so beautiful. Miriam: But it's basically a play. It's a play with really good locations. Yeah. Yeah. Kate: It's a play, yeah. Yeah. Leslye: I thought you guys, I thought that too the whole time. I think that's why I keep bringing up these theater nerd references, 'cause it does feel like a play. It was so great, you guys. how can we keep the Nic Cage era of this podcast going? Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: Genuinely. He's so good. He's just such a great actor. Miriam: a good second screen fact for you, Nic Cage, got I think he heard about this movie, got offered this movie, his agent tells him about it, and then he's like, I really want to do Vampire's Kiss And his agent was like, if you're gonna do Vampire's Kiss you have to do Moonstruck. You have to do Moonstruck. Leslye: that is the most Nicolas Cagey story of all the Nicolas Cage stories. Miriam: Or who? Agent Manager. I know. It's so, it's so good. I I also think they're Leslye: Yeah. He's like, Can I do this absolutely bonkers schlock and everyone's like, Can you do the good movie? Miriam: the original title of this movie, does anybody know? Original title Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: of Moonstruck? The Bride and the Wolf. she keeps being like, You're a wolf. And he is a wolf. He plays it like a wolf. Kate, were you Leslye: is he? Miriam: you like Nicolas Cage in this? Kate: there is a part of this movie that's hard to be like fully bought into the hand and the over the top his character is over the top, but also Leslye: Yeah. Kate: it just works for some reason. for some reason you're like, I'm here for the ride. Let's go, let's do this. Think I still think of him primarily as Conair Nic Cage. And so this Nic Cage, I was like, what's happening here, man? Even though I'd Miriam: You need more yeah. Kate: seen it before. So I don't know how to wrap my head around my full take on it. did I like him in this movie? Yes. Was he also ridiculous in it? Yes. Was the ridiculousness Leslye: Yeah, yeah. Kate: endearing somehow? Yes. it just all worked Miriam: It works. Kate: enough. a quirky enough. Leslye: I think you're Kate: character that you're like, Yeah, let's do this thing, Nic Cage. Let's go. Leslye: I think you're right though. I think that may be why it didn't rocket to among my favorites is the movie really starts, the plot starts when they meet each other, right? everything else is like setting up and introducing people and that's done brilliantly and so well. And then the movie starts up when he shows up. And I do think The character design takes a minute. you're absolutely Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: right. You're like so he has a fake hand and his hair is like wild. his Kate: Wild. Leslye: hair very clearly it that's not Miriam: It's the wolf. Leslye: normal hair. Kate: the even just even the fake handness part of it is just so Miriam: Mm. Kate: schticky At one point I I wrote down I was like this only works because Cher is good. it's like if he doesn't have Cher to Miriam: Ha ha ha. Leslye: That's true. Kate: echo against, sure there's a think a term for that, Miriam: Balance, balance, they balance each other, yeah. Leslye: Yeah. Kate: I I think that's why it works. It's like the juxtaposition Leslye: Yeah. No. Kate: of the two characters make it make sense. But he if I Leslye: I couldn't more, yeah. Kate: isolate his character alone, I'm like, this is wild. Wild. Leslye: I think that's right. but the Cher of it all cuts through I don't know the right baking term or whatever. But it's like the Miriam: Butter? Leslye: Wait, have you guys seen that Miriam: It cuts through what? Leslye: girl who just eats butter like it's a pickle? I I'll send it to you. It's Miriam: we're at we're at we guys, we're at peak butter, just in general. Side note, everybody's obsessed with butter, everybody has butter squishy toys, and we're dipping ice cream and butter. I like butter, but it's too much. It's too much. Side note. It's too much. Leslye: It's it's it's too much. It's too much. Miriam: I also think their characters work really well. for the scene where they meet, they sleep with each other immediately. I think Leslye: Immediately. Miriam: I feel like they're characters in an opera. that's why everything feels so heightened, it's like if it is La Boheme Yeah. 'Cause Leslye: interesting. Okay. Kate: Miriam, that's a smart take. Yeah. I did not think of it that way. And now that you've said it, I'm like, okay, yes. And of course he likes Leslye: Yeah, valid. Kate: Opera because he's over the top. he's a big, large, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Of course. But I think it's Kate: over the top character. Miriam: this movie in a weird way is written like it's an opera, it's a play or it's an opera. neither one of you mentioned they instantly are like, I'm into you, which I love. Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: I love that too. I think Kate and I are like not to gang up on you, Miriam. I agree with everything you're saying, but I think Kate, you're like we're we're Miriam: What else is new? Leslye: just we're ganging up on Miriam, which is yeah, it's our our vibe. But I think that he is absolutely over the top. The character design is like did he come up with it? did he come on set and was like, I have a wooden hand. It's Miriam: You yeah. Good question. Leslye: my idea. I'm not changing it and Norman Jewison was like, Okay, but you're Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: right, once Cher starts to enter into the scenes, it makes so much more sense that she's like, I'm gonna make you some food like and he was like, Why are you talking to me? she makes him sexy though he flips the table and it's absurd. Kate: Yeah, yeah. Ridiculous or operatic, Miriam. Now I'm like Miriam: Yes. Kate: whew mind shift. I just think that we need to give Cher a little bit of credit for being the queen of the age gap because she was 37 when this was filmed and he was 23, and now she's dating Miriam: yes, yes. He's twenty twenty yeah, twenty two. Kate: a 20-year-old or something. I'm just like, Miriam: Mm-hmm. Kate: girl, wow, ahead of your time. Yeah. Queen of the age Leslye: Didn't know that. Didn't know that. I didn't know that. Miriam: But again, she Kate: gap. And it works. Miriam: does it. I know she always had a young hot man But that is also where I think Cher is amazing in this because she fully disappears in this role. Was there one moment where you thought about if you believe in love? you know what I mean? at no point in watching Leslye: No, it's true. No, it's true. Miriam: this movie I am I thinking about Cher as an international Pop star. it's I Leslye: No. Kate: Very true. Miriam: you have to give her so much respect for that performance. Leslye: That's true. That's true. You're right, the only times I really went, I'm watching Cher was the close ups, and just how beautiful she is. And just I Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: I like, God, Cher's so beautiful. And then, the scene would continue. that's when I would think like Witches of Eastwick or The Sonny and Cher show Do you Believe in Life After Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: Love? I don't know what's Kate: After Love we have not talked about some of the other characters. And I actually I think some of my favorite Miriam: I know, yeah. Leslye: No, we need to. We need to. Kate: parts actually were like the Olympia Dukakis John Mahoney part. And Leslye: Same. Miriam: Yes, love it. Kate: I was like, I think that's where the heart comes from in a lot of ways. they were far less operatic and much more like a play, I think. If we're sticking with that. But I just wanted to call Miriam: Mm-hmm. Yes. Leslye: That's right. Yeah. Kate: that out because I love him because he was great on Frasier and Olympia Dukakis Miriam: I love John Mahoney, Kate: I guess it's just good in everything. Miriam: yeah. No Leslye: He is so such a good actor. And I loved their scene outside because it was you're right. It was like this Kate: Yeah. Leslye: big juxtaposition to the bride and the wolf, where she goes, I'm freezing Kate: Yeah. Leslye: and he's like, come upstairs whatever. And then I think Olympia Dukakis has a similar line where she's like, I'm really cold and then goes inside, like the difference between a woman like her and a woman like Cher and how they both need different things. Like not one is not better than the other. Miriam: some of my favorite parts are Olympia Dukakis where she keeps being like, Why do men cheat? Leslye: I loved that. Miriam: I do I why do men cheat? Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: they're afraid to die. It's like I think that's it. Leslye: But also I loved that part and I loved that question because the the central storyline, the A storyline, is Cher is cheating. So a woman is cheating. So really the Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: question is why do women cheat? anyway. Mr. Mushnick from Little Shop of Horrors is cheating on her. Miriam: That's so funny. I think Vincent Gardenia is excellent in it as the father, Leslye: He's so good. Kate: Everyone is Leslye: and speaking of what you're saying, Kate, with the little moments, when they saw each other at the opera, the way they interacted was Miriam: Mm. Leslye: so perfect. It was not melodramatic, it's like what are you doing here? What are you doing here? And then he just walks away. there's Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: no there's no end of the Miriam: Who Leslye: scene. Miriam: I'm sure you loved grandpa with the five dogs. you. At that point I was like, I fit I I was like, Leslye: I can't believe we haven't talked about that. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: when that scene the scene when the first time he appears, I was like, this is where we get Leslye. He's walking Kate: Yes. Miriam: five dogs. Leslye: I agree. I cannot believe we've gone thirty-five minutes without talking about that. First of all, he was so funny. Miriam: Amazing. Leslye: I loved his last line where he was like crying. and somebody I think his I think Miriam: Yeah. Pay for the wedding. Leslye: Vincent Gardenia was like, What's wrong? And he was like, I'm confused. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: It's Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: such a great performance. But the five dogs, I was like, this is Dream apartment in Brooklyn Heights, seven dogs, Miriam: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Leslye: still got it, so many great things with the with the other characters and y exactly. Miriam: The the older couple. Yeah. Rita and Raymond. I love the uncle, his, his monologue about the moon, Leslye: Loved. Miriam: when he looks back at his wife, seeing this beautiful moment between this older couple and their and you just hear her laugh in the background. Beautiful. it's Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: beautiful. Those are the kind of details that you got me. I don't say it because it's so annoying when people say this, but it's just like you don't see filmmaking like that anymore where it's just like cause I'm sure you do. Leslye: I no no no agreed. Thought that so many times. I thought that so many times. No, Miriam: I don't want to just blanket statement, but Leslye: I really was like they they don't make them like that anymore. I thought that so many times watching it, or it would have even in the nineties, Pretty Woman being honestly very capitalist late Reagan years of yeah, things are bad, but you could have a rich boyfriend and everything would be fine. Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: and and and he's hot and this is all about this guy is absolutely ridiculous and he fell in love with me in 48 hours and why the fuck not? Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: I I I Kate: You mean so it's like it doesn't have to be shiny or gritty, it can live somewhere in the in between. Yeah. Leslye: It could just be, yes, it can live somewhere in the middle. it doesn't have to be Pretty Woman it can just be this like what you guys said, this play Kate: Mm-hmm. Leslye: Everybody is dealing with that theme of of coupledom and marriage. not even love. it's actually just cheating and commitment and marriage and family That's why the ending I almost had tears in my eyes because, Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: seeing the older couple who clearly you don't even need again, in a in, a movie now it would be like, see, this is a picture of my, it just it didn't like we just got to it, they showed it to us, and I had almost tears in my eyes because I was like, here is a couple that very clearly were immigrants who came here and loved each other for somehow, some way kept this family together. And we know that this family's gonna keep going based on this last scene. it's gonna be messy, it's gonna be weird, Nic Cage's hand's gonna fall off or something, like he's gonna Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: die of an overdose. I don't know. Miriam: I forgot about that, the subplot about she doesn't deposit the money. And I think if this movie, Kate: yeah. Miriam: if this movie was made today, she totally steals that money to do her makeover. I was like, I don't think she did that. Wait, did she? And when they walk in and they're like, nice hair, you got our money. she's like, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: I got it, I got it. I'm sorry. I was so distracted by Nicolas Cage. I didn't get to the bank. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: I think Olympia Dukakis like honestly, such a wonderful performance as well. I just love too how Kate: So great. Miriam: when she's gonna be marrying Danny Aiello who is also Danny Aiello is, I think, also fantastic. And absolutely the bit where he keeps forgetting to get his luggage, it's just again, like so funny, such good detail. But you know, Leslye: I loved that. That was such a good bit. Yes. Yes. Miriam: I love when Olympia Dukakis is like, the first time she's like, Do you love him? About Daniel Aiello and Cher's like no and she's like, Okay, good. And then at the end when she's like, Do you love him? About Nicolas Cage, she's like, I do, I love him so much. And and she's like, no. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: I d it's like you're doomed, yeah, yeah, yeah. Leslye: Yeah, she says something like you're doomed or something like that and wait, we cannot end without me saying that there was one line from this movie that I'm gonna butcher right now, but I literally put on a post-it and put it next to my bed. It was so good. which is like we're put on earth to ruin ourselves. I was like, What? it it was so philosophically profound and not that it justified all the bad behavior in the movie but it it went yeah almost like a shrug we don't need to Miriam: Mm. Leslye: comment on it we don't need to make it palatable to the audience we're stating that the movie's thesis is why try to be perfect why try to be the perfect couple none of that stuff exists And we're just put here to ruin ourselves. And that bought me a lot of goodwill with Nicolas Cage because he did do a very good he did a very good performance. And he was very hot in the movie. I would not say sexy, but I would say hot. He's very hot. Miriam: I would say sexy. What? I would definitely say sexy. What? Are we watching the same movie? Leslye: I don't know, it's like when we got on top of her, I was like, This could be better. Miriam: But yeah, it was a challenge. But I this movie Leslye: true, true, yeah, yeah. Miriam: does win for best original screenplay, John Patrick Shanley. it is super, it's so well Leslye: It does? Miriam: written. Yeah. It well, it won Best Original Screenplay, Best Supporting Leslye: I Miriam: Actress, Best Supporting Actor nominated. Victor Gardenia is nominated. Cher win's Best Actress. Norman Jewison is nominated. Best picture nomination. Leslye: Wait, I didn't know any of that. Wow, Miriam: We're not alone, yeah. Leslye: wow. And so Olympia Dukakis won? Deservedly, yeah. Miriam: She won! And I I know. Kate: she was great. Yeah. She was so good. Miriam: I don't Kate: I just feel like I'm so happy we can all be friends still because you liked this movie. I was worried. I was worried. Miriam: Yeah, yes I know final verdict Leslye: I don't know. Miriam: liked it we can remain friends good Leslye: I loved it. I really did love it. And we can all remain friends because you guys were right. You kept it all from me, but I could tell that you guys really liked the movie I absolutely admit that I was wrong and we can all stay friends for sure. Miriam: Think it's funny that you were saying that you like this movie because it lacks cynicism. I thought maybe you wouldn't like it because it was too sentimental, but I actually think it's not sentimental. It's just really good. Yeah. Leslye: It's not that b but I think that's what kept me away from it for a while Kate: It's not Leslye: I Miriam: Nic Cage is doing something, but there's no part of this movie Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: that feels like cheesy Kate: Ha ha. Do you just feel connected to him because of the hand? Because you have the hand connection to Yeah, your hand. Yeah. Miriam's broken hand and yours, I have no hand anything, so I have I Miriam: it's actually yeah. You have your my who me or Leslie's thumb, my broken hand. Leslye: And my broken thumb, yeah. Kate: don't know. Miriam: So Leslye what is your grade for Nic Cage's performance in Moonstruck Leslye: I would say his performance is like because he's given so many good performances. So I'm trying to cull from that. I have to say it's an A. Maybe Miriam: Mm. Leslye: an A minus just because Cher outshines him so intensely, but that's not his fault, really. It's her movie. I think it's gotta be I'll give it an A minus. I'll say A minus. Miriam: Except he's doing a lot of good acting with that wooden hand. that at least gets you an A. Leslye: I'll give the no no no he's an A minus the hand A plus Miriam: Perfect, perfect. Love this. All right, guys. good stuff. Leslye: Thanks for joining us this week on How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: Tell us what movie we should watch at howhaveyounotseenthis.com. You can subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at H-H-Y-N-S T Pod. Tune in next time for another crime against cinema. And remember, friends are not friends unless they fight about movies.