Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 38: The Sales System That Generated Over $1 BILLION in Revenue | James Hayden
Transcript
- Joe: What if the only thing separating a struggling business from a billion dollar revenue engine was one repeatable go-to-market system? Welcome to the Globizor Podcast, where we explore business growth, communication, and personal development through real conversations with people that make an impact. Our guest has generated over $1 billion in revenue, built first ever sales for companies across 140 engagements, transformed underperforming divisions into top performers, and advised enterprises and governments around the world. He's a fractional CRO, GTM strategist, and the author of Real World Selling, The Art of Selling Conversation, with nearly four decades of real world results. Globizer welcomes James Hayden. Hey James. James Hayden: Joe, hey, good to be here today. Joe: it's a pleasure. Looking forward to the conversation. James Hayden: Me too. Let's dig in. Joe: All right. So James, tell us what you do. James Hayden: What I do is work for organizations, well, and individuals. I I work with some smaller organizations that are very much founder led, in some cases, one or two people in the organization. I work with those organizations at at a high level to put together repeatable, scalable processes that generate revenue. So that sounds simple. There's a heck of a lot to it. and that's the work I've done essentially for 40 years. what happened was people started calling me out and saying, Hey, what what do you do? Can you tell me what you do to turn around a division or find revenue for this new product? nobody else could. And I just would say, you know, well, it's kind of intuitive. I come in and and you know, something doesn't look right or feel right or smell right, and the company, I just change it. So the the one of the big shifts for me was I had stumbled on a on a sales methodology that happened to be one that a lot of people had utilized. And somebody here in the Seattle area had been using for years and years and years. And it took my experimentation to to discover that sales methodology. So the the founder of that methodology here in Seattle, Hal Thorsvig, came to me and I I used him for some turnarounds I did to, you know, instill that in organizations because I was the leader of the sales team. I brought him to do in to do the training. And he said, Hey, I'm writing a book. I need some IP that I that I want to publish out there. I need somebody who's a type A like you, one, and two, is somebody that can bring in some real world examples into the methodology and talk about successes and I don't call them failures with tuition payments. And I've got a few of them in the book, and how how that's how that's done. So it took us just four and a half years to publish the book. And Hal's promise to me was, you know, you can you can go in and turn around these organizations, get revenue ramped up. In in every organization I'd been working in, except one. he said, right now you're what I'd call an unconscious competent. And this will by writing this down, you'll move to being a conscious competent. And it made it made a huge difference. So I'm I guess somewhat more conscious now about that. But then I rewrote the book in 2023. it was published initially in 2013 because the world had changed a lot in those 10 years, especially Around utilizing technology, people aren't picking up the phone all the time, doing cold calling and and sales. And some other big shifts had happened in terms of partnerships and and channels. 70 to 75% of technology sales go through a partner channel. So navigating through that and direct sales was really important. And that had been the inverse in in 2013 when we originally wrote the book. So Some big changes in terms of how to utilize technology and in generating revenue. And then the second piece was how many partners are involved. And that's really a different approach than direct sales. recruiting and selecting the right partner, onboarding them, and then you know optimizing what what they're doing. So there were some substantial shifts, but it's it's very much is as you called out in the beginning, very much a system. And really from the beginning to the time a company exits or what whatever you're looking for in terms of success, finding that repeatable scalable process is very much a system. And I find that that founders and people involved in corporations and and other businesses, if they write down what they're doing, there's a magic to Journaling it, if you will. Some people call it journaling, and I don't know, that feels a little bit soft to me, but really writing down here's how my day's gone, here's what happened, here are the challenges I faced, and then let it go. And your mind has a way of of being a goal-seeking device, we'll find a way to overcome that. Joe: Wow, you've given us a lot there, which is great. I'm looking forward to the finding out more and especially on the personal side because there's so much there to find out. but before we do that, can you get us on the same page? What is a fractional CRO in then the go to market? What does that actually mean? James Hayden: Every business is in some go-to-market stage. So go to market is the way you take your product or services to market. And it really involves how you're promoting your product, what your sales team looks like, what your what your product looks like. So finding finding that right product to market fit is is important. The go to market, you could boil it down simply and just say it's finding the right person with the right message at the right time. Now, again, that sounds sim simplistic, but there's a heck of a lot to it. I've been CRO, headed up sales, headed up sales and marketing and in several organizations. And I can come in now because of what I've seen in my career in terms of pattern recognition, and then take those patterns, integrate that to develop a new pattern for a company that'll get them to success. Joe: Now, every successful entrepreneur has had a defining moment. What inspired you to pursue this career path? James Hayden: there are there are people with certain athletic ability or certain proclivities or or interests, right? And from the time from the time I was young, I had some interesting parents that that raised me. My my dad was an engineer and my mom was one of the first female real estate brokers in Seattle. So, you know, she was taking me to to Zig Ziggler and Tom Hopkins and Jim Rowan and motivational speakers like that when I was when I was younger. And there were a few things that motivated me. You know, I was when I was a little kid, I was selling butter toffee peanuts door-to-door. And so, you know, I was building markets then and it wasn't enough that I'd earned my way to camp. But one of the one of the one of my childhood friends family didn't have a lot of money, then I earned his way to camp and I earned part of another kid's way to to camp because I just like getting out there and and doing that. That gratification of finding somebody to buy something that's of value, even though whether butter toffee peanuts or later it was newspaper routes, that kind of thing was really a part of me. And I had a real need to prove myself. I was I was adopted at birth, had some insecurities. My my parents that raised me were were wonderful people, but I always felt I was a little bit different than other people. And I I talked to so many other executives that have, you know, maybe they may not be adopted, but it may be something else where there's there's something that there's an event that occurred in their life that could have broken other people. And I, you know, there were things I didn't have a perfect upbringing in that that didn't didn't define me. It gave me so much motivation because I wanted to prove that I belonged and that I was acceptable and it led to just I outworked everybody. You know, w from from the time I was in college on, I worked harder than anybody else. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's really, really important that we understand on the psychological side of it who we are, what's motivating us. And those insecurities and sometimes those insecurities can be motivation we need to be better people, to prove ourselves, as long as you don't let it beat you down. Joe: absolutely. And I think pretty much everyone has had adversity at some different level in their lives. But some people, as you mentioned, can either destroy you or it can define you and make you who you are today. And I think that's one of the reasons that you are so good at identifying these patterns, 'cause you develop these extra skill that others haven't been able to. So that that's a big plus. product placement, Is that something that you're thinking that's going to continue more as television and brands are working together? James Hayden: I don't believe product placement will ever go away. It's just, you know, it's it's in our nature to to look at that. And I remember when one of my daughters was was first going into into kindergarten, her teacher said at the time, you know, just so you know, it takes it takes an adult At least five times to hear a message before they really get it. Cognitively, it sinks in. A child, it takes 10 times. So if you hear me repeat myself, there's there's a method to that. So that that repetition is I believe it's scientific But we do we do look to other people as examples in fashion or sports or wellness, those those types of things. I I just believe we're if if anything we're accelerating that with the use of social media and AI. Joe: So now was your daughter's teacher correct? Do we need those five touches in order to purchase a product or do we need more than that? James Hayden: we may need more than that, Joe. I mean it's one of the stats I use with sales organizations is it takes twelve to twenty outreaches for a salesperson to get a contact with somebody. And so you know the the design I've seen in multi what I call multimedia outreaches that that is, you know, text, email, social media and phone calls when you're when you're building a business, building a a prospect, is it takes a while before they get to know you. Now if you're you know you're if you're with Microsoft or Amazon or something, that's a little bit different. Everybody know knows who they are. But most of most of the people, and I believe you are most of the people in this audience and most of the organizations I work with, it it could be an unknown category and and even within that category, probably an a brand that not everybody knows. So it probably takes more contacts and more outreaches before people get that they have an issue. And you know, that's one of the one of the big things in building them building a market for a company is building the category demand because a lot of times you'll come in with, gosh, this is going to be the, you know, the biggest thing since Amazon. But people don't know they have a problem. So so in many cases you have to build that category demand and and really build it, you know, you you've got a problem. And it and we can solve that. Or you will have a problem and we can solve it before it becomes a problem. And then so the answer is why do I need this solution? And then the next step would be, why do I need your solution as as a company? Answering those two questions are absolutely pivotal. And until you answer the first one, you can't get to the second one. same same gate there. So I yeah, I mean if you're starting to see a pattern, there is there is a systematic approach to to building a market depending on what the what the product is. And every organization is a little bit different in terms of that ratio of what it takes in in contacts and messaging and that whole approach. Joe: Now who is your ideal client? Is it only Inc. one thousand companies or can someone who is just developed a brand new product and they want to bring that to market, can they contact you as well? James Hayden: the organizations I've been working with the last few years have been founders. And for example, now I'm working with a three-person company in building management software and building building that market for them. Now I'm doing some of the individual selling, but in in the spirit of of coaching the people in the organization how to how to do that. They they haven't had a methodology to to fall back on. The other other critical piece that that I hit on with founders is a founder gets to a point and You know, nobody nobody can sell with a passion a founder does, right? in in the marketplace. And you've got the person right in front of you that can if you're a client, can answer all the questions, they can make the decisions, they don't have to get back to you know, Bob and finance or Sally and finance to to get an approval right there on the spot. And and that trust. they can build like nobody else can in the marketplace. Now the the difficulty becomes at that I would say ten to twenty million dollar revenue mark is who who do I need to bring in that can take over that sales effort because the The founder should be the visionary of the company from especially from that point on and pulling together those disparate pieces, you know, the finance and the operations we're talking about. So getting that information out of a founder's head and into the sales organization is not an easy task. That's the reason I I recommend writing down what you do, or keyboarding it, whatever. get it get it down there so you can start to build and you can start to see that there is a process. Joe: if one of our listeners wanted to work with you today, what would that journey look like? James Hayden: we could schedule a half an hour session or so, talk about their business, see if there's if there's a fit. You know, maybe maybe they could they could do some things without me, which is okay. but if if I could guide them in that direction, that's that's okay. Or we put together We put together a plan based on our discussion that's a roadmap with prioritized prioritized initiatives that will take them from where they are today to where they want to be in terms of revenue. And that could That could be, you know, do they have the right strategy in in place? Are they getting the right message to the right people at the right time, like I talked about earlier? Do they have the right people in place? And I can test salespeople in terms of their behaviors to to see if they will sell within a certain category or not. That's yeah, if people are interested in that, you can reach out to me about that. Joe: Very often when you talk about going to market, everyone is very heavy on how do we get that product to the market and to the public. But they don't really talk much about the other end of it, which is the founders and how they're gonna sell that. within your recommendations, do you have specific benchmarks that takes it from you know that it's specific level that early adopters like the product and you decide from there that it's ready to move on to the next stage. James Hayden: Generally that's revenue based. So you can start to see you can start to see it with an uptick and you know with that that upward upward curve like that where you start to see adoption. But what what it will do if it's working the right way is you'll start to see people who are who are in that early majority on the product adoption lifecycle, you'll start getting pinged by by people that are, you know, you could you could really categorize as more that mass market, because they'll s they'll start to see it and they'll start to hear about it in in their own marketplace or with their competitors or competitive set. Joe: Can you share with us a success story of someone that's worked with you? James Hayden: there was a company I was brought in to in a very, very fractional role to build to build their first vertical markets. So we worked on automotive market. I'd had some experience in that. we worked on healthcare. And those were the two primary markets we were going after. It was a company called Zip Whip, based here in Seattle. And they had really interesting technology. They land they for your landline phones, they were text enabling those. So for a small business, they have a landline phone, but they can receive text. So it's it's another channel in telecommunications, which was really cool. I worked with them to build the first the first vertical markets. at healthcare we split up a couple different ways. So there were really three, three initial markets. He asked me to come in and and get momentum. And we had one of the first auto dealerships to work with us. They text enabled all our landline phones. They had an executive from Amazon that was looking at at bringing their car in for maintenance. the service service technician gets it and said, Hey, I know you're really looking for the seven series that had this and this and this option on it. We just got one in. Would you like information on it? Sends a text back. Anyway, it goes on and on and on. The entire transaction was done. virtually by text. So the only time that executive came into the dealership was to turn in the old car and get the keys to the new car. That was it. Zip Whip, I did work on and off with them for for a few years. They were acquired four years ago by Twilio for eight hundred and fifty million. So, you know, it it was one of those things a lot of people had a lot of impact on their business, but it's one of those things that really got the party started for them. So that's that's one. Joe: That's a great story. If listeners James Hayden: Thank you. Joe: remember only one thing from today's conversation, what do you hope that message is? James Hayden: That there is a system from the beginning through whatever your your end of your business, whether it's an exit or whatever, that you can build. There's very much a systems approach. And that may that may sound counterintuitive to people, but there are there are things you can do to build a system. to find that repeatable scalable revenue. Once you do that, you can start feeding in, you feed your money into the things your investments into the things that get you the greatest returns. So you can see if like it could be Google ads or it could be linked LinkedIn posts or it could be having an inside salesperson. If I have three inside salespeople, I'm going to get this. So you start tracking your business to to the point where you can quantify what you do. And you're just you're fine-tuning that engine. Think of it like an an engine in a car, for example. You're just keeping it tuned up the whole time. Now it it requires tune-ups and it requires maintenance that that, you know, every few months, like changing your oil, for example. But look at it, look at it that way where there's a systematic approach you can use to build your business. What I recommend is finding that approach, finding your own approach, and then go. Just there there's a way to do that. This is it's it just it takes courage to build a business. That's the biggest thing you'll need. But find that approach, become a student of it. you certainly can, Globisor has a lot of available resources. You can come to my website. I'm also working with a group that has 2,000 founder members based out of Miami called and and we're it's just going live. we we have a complete approach of everything you need as a startup. Called Start Hub Academy. if that supports your efforts, that could be good. I wish I had the tools in place that we have today. When I was starting out my career, I, you know, all this stuff about jobs being taken away. In the entrepreneur side of businesses, starting businesses, I have never seen a time in my life with as many opportunities as there are today. Joe: interesting. 'cause you have so many different perspectives on what AI is doing and losing jobs. Are there ever gonna be more opportunities in the near future? And I'm glad you're so optimistic. James Hayden: I'm absolutely positive about it. So, and if anybody wants to have a further conversation, you and I could, or happy to happy to discuss that with people. The the important piece is to keep in mind that also, you know, to be human, but we're also trust is a big part of the way we do business with each other. And AI doesn't build trust. People build trust. That's it. Joe: That's great advice. where can an audience connect with you and learn more about your work and continue this conversation? James Hayden: I have a website. It's James B. Hayden, H A Y D E N dot com. you can text me, 206-915-0458. LinkedIn profiles under Jim Hayden. And yeah, that would be that would be the best thing. Thank you. Joe: Can't build any more trust than giving out your cell phone number. Well, James, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights. we appreciate your time and your insights and the value that you brought to our audience. James Hayden: Thank you, Joe. Yeah, it was a real pleasure. Really enjoyed your your show. Joe: Thanks everyone for listening. If this episode inspired you, share it with someone who needs it. And don't forget to follow the Globalizor Podcast for more conversations that make an impact. Till the next time.