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Business Development Strategies: A Refresher · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

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Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
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so I think that's that's kind of unique in our industry,
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is that you can partner with those other players in the in the industry
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that are not competing against you, and you guys can actually help each other.
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Welcome to the Spiro Podcast.
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Managing your real estate, photography and videography business
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with your hosts Todd Kivimaki and Craig Magrum.
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Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,
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managing your real estate, photography and videography business.
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Spiro is a software platform.
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If you're new to the podcast, it's a software
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platform designed to really help you manage your day to day real estate
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media business, and ultimately to help you scale as well.
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We'd like to see you grow and really do well in this industry.
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I'm Craig Magrum, host of the podcast podcast Spit It Out.
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I am a professional communicator right off the podcast.
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For those of you that have seen this before, welcome back to another week.
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Glad to have you
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and really appreciate
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the time that you take out each and every week to watch and or listen,
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during your work week.
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We we're humbled by that.
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And, just, grateful for the opportunity to speak into your life and your business.
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All right, well, this week, a little bit different.
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Todd is out on vacation for some much needed R&R, and,
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so I, I'm running this without him, but
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no stranger to the to the podcast.
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Our guest and, familiar face, Mr.
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Steve Musser, who is the, director of sales
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and marketing for Wow Video Tours, which is our real estate media business.
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On the other side of things from Spiro.
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So, Steve, welcome.
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Glad to have you join. Join me here this week.
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Yeah, Craig.
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-Thanks for having me back. - Yeah, absolutely.
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Well, we're going to keep this fairly, fairly focused, Steve.
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And we're just going to dive right into things.
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Normally we we do some Spiro updates, but with Todd being out,
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we're going to forego that this week and, just dive right into really,
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ultimately what what is a listener question that came in?
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Nick and Nick and I have been talking back and forth quite a bit on Facebook,
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and he's been picking my brain on some things.
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And, he asks a really good question that we really haven't,
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discussed lately, in depth.
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And that's the, the, the subject of sales and business development.
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And with Steve being our, our director of sales and marketing,
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I thought this
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this would be a great, week to have him on and share some of his insights and,
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experience, particularly Steve, in the area of larger markets,
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you know, large metro areas and somebody trying to get into this industry.
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So that's kind of what I'd like to pick on your brain on this week.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I'd love to dig into it.
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Yeah.
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So Nick was sharing with me, you know, he's he's trying to get legs under him
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and start to build, you know, clientele, things like that.
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And there's a lot to consider when you when you're
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talking about the, the area of sales and business development.
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So the first thing that came to mind is I was thinking about,
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you know, the the podcast this morning is where we were recording.
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Steve, is there.
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There's so many different personalities and,
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ways of doing sales, it seems like, or things that you hear.
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But is there, is there really one, one
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main way to develop sales or is there different ways that you can do it?
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I know that's a really broad question,
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but just we'll start broad and kind of narrow down.
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So I would say yes or no.
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So there's a million different ways that you can
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structure your sales team or if it's just you as a solopreneur,
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there's a different ways you can approach that sales side of things.
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The one thing that that is, standard across the board is just consistency.
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So you have to have that consistency in your approach, in your tracking
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and your follow ups, everything else to, to make sure that the sales program
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is working, whether it's you or a team or however you have that structured.
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But there are a million different ways to get that consistency done.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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And we'll dive more into that.
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So when you say consistency, what does that exactly look like.
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How do you stay consistent in this field.
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And it
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what does that even look like or mean to somebody.
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This may be new to sales and business development.
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Yeah.
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So when I say consistency
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what I'm basically referring to is the fact that and Craig,
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you know this more than anybody by walking into an office
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and, you know, maybe dropping off treats or, you know, meeting some of the team
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there at an office or doing a cold call
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or whatever the case might be on your actions.
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Bottom line is typically one
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time is not going to change the trajectory of your business.
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It's not going to win, possibly even a client out of that.
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Sometimes it takes, you know, several visits, several calls, several follow ups.
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It I mean, we've had a lot of relationships that we built
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that took years to,
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to kind of get across that finish line and, and have a good relationship
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that we're working together to help their business.
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So that is, the key and the consistency is just don't don't get so overwhelmed,
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you know, don't expect instant results on any of your actions.
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You know, it's it's
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definitely a long game, but everything that you're doing today
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is preparing that that groundwork or that foundation for your sales program
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moving forward.
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And if you stay consistent in it, you you will see results.
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So you just have to kind of keep plugging away
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and making sure that your time spent, you know, the best way possible.
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But you will get those results over time.
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Yeah, I think that
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that can be the frustrating part is when you're trying to get an effort going,
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especially in a larger market, you know, like like a Dallas or,
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you know, one of our markets, Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati,
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if you're new and there's already is a especially if there's established,
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competition, you know, other people in that same space,
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it's not going to be easy because a lot of those realtors
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already have established relationships with other photographers.
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So kind of the frustration for the new person getting into it
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is if if they're not getting traction right away, how long can they survive
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trying to get this business going with not a lot of results.
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So consistent consistency, definitely important.
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But do you have any advice maybe on, you know, how somebody can hang in there
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when when it does take some time to, to get an effort going.
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Yeah, yeah. So I, I understand that too.
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I mean as you're growing your business, you need to see results in order to,
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to keep revenue coming into your company and, and then keep that consistency.
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We going to continue to see results long term.
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So there are a few things that I always say that to lead off
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with that are kind of like the basics.
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And from that you can kind of determine what the low hanging fruit
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is in that market.
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And so the first thing that I always say, regardless of the size of your market,
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is get the data, you know, if you can get any kind of data on the market,
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typically, you know,
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if you have any connections in the community with, you know, realtors
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or the board or whatever the case is, try to get a agent ranking report,
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and that will tell you a little bit about what is happening out in the market.
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You know, who who are the people that are doing
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the most business out there in that specific market?
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You know, are they doing mainly listings
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or are they doing buyer transactions, things along those lines?
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Because I think that is as a as a small business
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and trying to get results as quickly as possible.
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That's something that you want to turn your attention to, because
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without that data, you know, you're you don't know
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if you're spending your time in a way that is the most efficient.
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So, so having that, that data and being able to go down the list and say,
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you know, hey, I've been calling this person
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for six months and I haven't been able to connect yet.
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And then you find out that they, they do two listings a year, maybe not even that.
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Then, you know, that's probably not your target client.
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You know, you're looking for somebody with a little bit more volume.
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So I think if you start with the data and and kind of get it, get a
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good understanding of where the market
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is, you know, who, who are the the people that are doing
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and not necessarily even the most transactions,
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but doing enough transactions that you can, you know,
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kind of partner up with them and, and help their business grow.
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And then they're going to help you in the long run as well.
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So start there, try to get as much that as possible.
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And I think that gives you a good framework on
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making sure that your time spent well on whatever task that you're completing.
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So let's play off that a little bit okay.
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So say we we identify, the top five agents in the market.
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And we really want to try and establish some sort of relationship with them
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and maybe have them try us.
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We offer them a free shoot or something like that.
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How much does personality go
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into, trying to establish that initial relationship with somebody?
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You know, Steve, you've done sales.
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I've done sales.
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We've got Chris that takes care of our Columbus market.
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Joy, there in Charlotte and then Pam for for Dayton,
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in Cincinnati.
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And then we got Carter with, with Fort Wayne.
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You've got a you've got a mix of personalities here
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that you're leading as our director of marketing and sales.
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How much does personality go into trying to,
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make that first contact with a, you know, a top agent in a market?
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Yeah, yeah.
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And honestly, it's not even the top agents.
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It's all agents, you know, depending on
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when you're making those, those outreaches.
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But, yeah.
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Personality plays a big part of it because everybody has their strengths.
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Everybody has their comfort zone on what they're most comfortable with
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and what they excel with.
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And our our sales team is a good example of that.
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You know, Joy is is the a vet, you know, master,
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as far as
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she’s queen, she is queen of, event planning.
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Absolutely.
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She's out there holding events, you know, at least one a week, if not multiple.
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And she's coordinating and and so, you know, she plays her
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strengths in that way to where she, she has those connections.
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She has other partners in the in the market
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that she connects with and kind of helps put everything together.
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Let me key off up on that real quick.
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So yeah, you just you just said other partners.
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What what does that look like.
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So say you know John in
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in Gainesville, Florida.
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I'm just making something up.
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He's started to get to know some of the other industry players.
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What what does that look like?
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Inviting other partners into an event that you might.
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Yeah. Host for for realtors.
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Yeah.
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Our our industry is kind of, kind of unique in that way to,
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to to where there is, you know, our core client is the realtor and brokerage.
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And so around that realtor and brokerage, there are,
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you know, dozens of other partners that that they're working with day
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in, day out on all their transactions.
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And it gives us a unique opportunity to partner up with them.
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So that could be insurance agents, that could be mortgage brokers,
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that could be title departments.
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You know anything along those lines?
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We're targeting the same end user.
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We're targeting that that realtor and our goals are the same.
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We want to partner with them and offer what our services to help them
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grow their business.
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And we grow together on that side of things.
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And so I think that's that's kind of unique in our industry,
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is that you can partner with those other players in the in the industry
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that are not competing against you, and you guys can actually help each other.
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And we do that a lot.
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Joy's a great example of that.
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You know, she partners with those those mortgage brokers and, and title,
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you know, title agencies and everything else to where they can pull
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their resources and their efforts and time together to, host an event
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or to maybe, you know, have a promotion that goes out to agents.
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And then that way, you're you're getting more bang
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for your buck on that side of things, both on the time invested,
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because you should be able
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to split some of that time to coordinate some of those efforts.
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And then also resources,
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you know, enjoys the example she holds, you know, these events.
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And a lot of times I'll provide lunch or snacks or, you know, different, different,
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you know,
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different things available to the agents that are stopping in for that class.
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Another one that she does a lot is is information.
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So she has any experts in the real estate industry or social media
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or anything along those lines.
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So she'll reach out and try to partner with them.
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And everybody can promote their own business to the same agents.
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And it's a lot more cost effective and time effective on your on your calendar.
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You know, as I think about this.
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So in my market, I don't really have time to do events
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or plan events or those sorts of things, but I can see the value.
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And I've never thought about this by by partnering with other established,
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industry peoples, you know, say a mortgage broker.
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I, a title person or an inspector
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that already is established if they agree to do an event with you,
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that's kind of lending credibility to you as, as a new person
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in the media field for real estate.
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And yeah, what a what a great.
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And it does go both ways. Do so.
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So they're they're kind of
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bringing their audience to you and you're bringing your audience to them.
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And it's a win win across the board.
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You know there's no competition there. It's just collaboration.
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And you can get out there and and really have some fun with it.
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You know, we've done some.
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It doesn't even have to be an event.
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So I know a lot of times we say event and people kind of shy away
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because it seems like such a big deal to kind of plan an event.
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You can get there eventually.
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Enjoy is a perfect example of that, is that she has it so systemized
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that it's nothing to her to hurry up and plan an event,
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but it doesn't all have to tie back to that.
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I mean, it could be even a webinar.
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It could be,
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you know, partnering to sponsor a golf tournament or something along those lines.
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So you can pull your resources together to, to be able to do that.
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And then you're both bringing your audiences as well,
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and then hopefully hitting even a larger audience.
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And everybody is better because of it.
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So as I'm thinking through events and, and,
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you know, these other things that you just mentioned, golf tournaments or classes
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or webinars, I'm thinking about board events that you could potentially sponsor.
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So your local realtor board, I would say
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if you're somebody new, become an affiliate member of your local board
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and get involved with sponsoring the classes that they offer,
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which most of the time is just buying some breakfast items
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or something for the class or some snacks they give you five minutes.
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At the beginning of the class, you introduce yourself.
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Steve, the thing that that we talk about a lot in, in helping,
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in consulting with our clients is their face, is their brand.
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Obviously, we want realtors to be on video.
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Well, wouldn't it be the same for us?
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- Our face is our brand. - Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah.
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So that that kind of ties into a big a big term that you hear us say a lot within.
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Wow is top of mind.
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So top of mind marketing.
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And this this really all ties back to it.
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So the goal with everything that you do on the sales side is to be
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the first person they think of when they have a need for your service.
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So you know that that like I said, that can be quick.
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It can be a long game.
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It just kind of depends on the situation, the agent, everything else.
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But whatever you can do to stay in front of that audience and the market,
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you know, whether it is the sport, events, things along those lines.
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And the cool thing about it is as we build those relationships, you know,
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a couple months ago we got a call from the local board and they just
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let us know that, they had a lot of agents asking questions about AI.
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And they said, would you like to come in and talk about it?
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And that's not a presentation I've done before, but we we utilize
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AI, you know, we're we're a tech company.
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We're very familiar with it.
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And so put together a presentation
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through out there and kind of address their basic,
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you know, questions on AI and how to use it in real estate and everything else.
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And I didn't bring lunch. I didn't do anything.
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They just wanted the knowledge.
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And that is just a great feeling when you have that trust
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and and that expert status in the market to where
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the board's actually reaching out to you saying, hey, we need this,
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we think you're the right person to do it.
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Can you come in and do this?
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And then you get to go in front of 30, 40 people and talk about it.
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And even though you're not talking about your business and your brand, you're
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you're actually building that that expert credibility on the back end
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because they know who you are now.
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They know that you know what you're talking about,
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and they appreciate that the knowledge on that side of events.
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Yeah.
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And that all ties back into consistency.
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So to get that kind of invitation,
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obviously you have to be known in the market.
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And as somebody that's new you're like, well, I'm not known.
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But that's where consistency
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drives into all of this.
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Become an affiliate member, show up at events and I
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you get initially Todd and I've talked about this in the past,
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initially when you're getting your business off the ground, there is a grind.
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There's just always a grind portion of developing business right?
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And it can be grueling.
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But if you stick it out and stay consistent and stay visible and,
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you know, be in front of of other people, they will get to know you.
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And people buy from people they know, like, and trust.
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We we've heard that phrase a bazillion times, but trust has to come
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be because you've had the consistency and the track record of being visible
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and proving good results with, you know, with a few shoots
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that you do get initially. Yeah. So
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go ahead, Steve.
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Look, I was just I was going to say as you're starting your business.
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So one thing that that you just want to keep in mind or as you're, you're,
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you know, maybe a solopreneur
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and starting to branch out and building a team or whatever the case is,
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when you're when you're at that level, you know, just kind of,
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get over the fear of it,
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but understand that you're going to have to it's
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going to be time, money, or both in order to, to bring in new clients.
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And so the nice thing with that is you can do you can throw money at it,
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you know, you could do marketing, you could do social media advertising,
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you can do,
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you know, all various sponsorships, things along those lines and spend the money.
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So to kind of build that, that,
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that brand behind your business and be the one that they know
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is an expert in the industry so you can do money or time.
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You know, some like what
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we were just talking about going out and and dropping off at offices
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or doing presentations, things along those lines, you know, and sometimes
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it's a combination of time and money that that would be required for that.
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But the nice thing is, believe it or not, you know, as you grow
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and as you kind of develop these systems and, and get everything in place,
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than that time and money aspect almost starts to fade away a little bit.
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And I'm not saying it disappears, but with what we're talking about
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is we have people now reaching out to us, you know, and saying,
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hey, we want to do this and we want you to be part of it.
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And now all of a sudden, you look at that time and money
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aspect is a lot lower than it used to be in order to bring in new clients.
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So that consistency leads up to that.
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So that's the way to get to that, that level.
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Right.
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A perfect example of that, Steve, just just last night, last evening,
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I got a text from,
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from one of our longtime clients that I had initially started working with.
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Years ago.
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And she's like, hey,
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would you would you, donate something
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to the fundraising auction again this year for this event that
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I've been a part of since 2017?
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And whether it was my own business or then for Wow and,
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when when you get involved in something on a consistent basis,
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people see you as a partner and they see that you're interested
19:39
in helping the industry, especially in your local market.
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And just continuing to be at those events, continuing to support
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those things, be a part of fundraising auctions, things like that.
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And they will introduce you to other people when
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when you're at a, you know, a fundraising auction or something
19:57
that a particular brokerage is putting on, even if you're not the preferred vendor.
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So this brokerage, Steve, you might even know who I'm talking about.
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Every every Cinco de Mayo, every year up here.
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We are not the preferred vendor for this brokerage,
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but we have been
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a yearly sponsor of it, and we have a good amount
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of their business, even though we're not their their preferred vendor.
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But it's big, but it's because we haven't taken that for granted.
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And despite
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not being the preferred vendor, we've continued to serve them well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think that's important.
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Is is I mean, it's all relationship based and it is you know,
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I always it's funny, you know, Craig, you and I have had this conversation
20:41
and Carter recently, you know, as we bring people,
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you know, into a new market or a new company or whatever the case is,
20:48
you know, sometimes you hear sales and they it's like, oh, no, I'm
20:52
not a sales person. I don't like sales.
20:55
Craig, I think you'll be the first one to say that.
20:57
Yeah, that that's me.
20:59
You're not a salesperson. But you are.
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You just, you know, you're not,
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you're not a stereotypical, like, used car salesman.
21:05
And I think that's what people's mind comes to.
21:08
So for everybody, that's that's building their business.
21:10
Just keep that in mind.
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You don't have to be your, your typical, you know, sales person to where, you know,
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if you have a bad example in your head of that, just get that out of the way.
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Take care of your clients.
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Be consistent with everything.
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I mean, that's really the key to sales.
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And then it's just going to build that relationship.
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And exactly what what like what you're saying, Craig, is.
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And then you have people, even if we're not the preferred partner,
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they're coming to us because they know the value.
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They know their agents are utilizing us to some level.
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And they know that, we're trustworthy in the market
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and they want us involved in different things as well.
21:44
I was, training one of our new photographers earlier this week
21:48
and sharing with them my approach of, we're not just photographers, right?
21:53
We're part of their marketing team.
21:54
And so we want to build a a good relationship with them.
21:57
And, and I told I told this new photographer said, just realize this
22:02
in in trying to develop the relationship in the business with them,
22:06
you cannot sell a salesperson.
22:10
So yes, what we're doing is sales, but you can't sell a salesperson.
22:15
Now, you can consult with them and add value to their business
22:18
and show what you can do to add value, but you're never going to
22:23
the typical,
22:25
I don't want to say typical, because there are elements
22:28
of the sales process that you still will utilize in developing
22:32
that relationship, but it's from a place of really
22:35
authentically caring about that, that person as a person,
22:39
because that person is running a business to to support themselves in their family.
22:43
There's an underlying reason why they're in that business.
22:47
And looking at it from the human point of view of
22:49
how can I actually really benefit you and not just myself, will go a long way
22:54
in building an authentic relationship with people in the business world,
22:57
right in, in the market.
23:00
So serving people well, being authentic about it and showing up
23:04
consistently acting with integrity, that just
23:10
real estate is all about
23:11
relationships. Authentic relationships.
23:15
And, you know, we've talked about this before, but one of the best feelings
23:19
that I think we still get, you know, very frequently is when the phone rings
23:23
and you pick it up and it's an agent saying, you know, hey,
23:26
I have this listing. These are the details.
23:28
What do you think I should do? Yeah.
23:30
And and that just drives that point home is, is, you know, you can be a salesperson
23:34
and still act with integrity and, and build those relationships.
23:38
And they can feel that too.
23:40
You know, our our agents reaching out to us and, and knowing that
23:43
we know are in our side of the industry and how it benefits them.
23:47
And we're ethical.
23:48
We're not just looking to pile on as many services as we can to everybody.
23:52
Right?
23:53
They know that they can reach out and they have an open dialog to say,
23:57
hey, I trust you. What do you think?
23:58
And so we throw out our suggestions and sometimes they agree,
24:02
sometimes I don't,
24:03
sometimes they tweak it a little bit, but just the fact that they open with that
24:07
means, I mean, when's the last time that you went to a car dealership
24:10
and ask the car dealer, it's like I trust you.
24:13
What car do you think I should get?
24:14
You know, it's just not how it works.
24:16
In a lot of cases.
24:18
And there's some great car salesmen out there.
24:19
I'm not trying to diminish that whole industry.
24:22
but
24:23
There are typically, you know, when you when you are dealing with a salesperson,
24:26
people have their guard up.
24:28
They're a little bit more cautious, things like that.
24:30
You can you can be a salesperson and eliminate
24:33
that and know that you're there to serve them and help them.
24:35
And and then that's where everything starts coming back to you,
24:38
you know, in the future because you have those relationships.
24:42
Yeah,
24:43
I think I've told this story before in the podcast,
24:45
but for those that maybe started
24:47
listening later, I had a client a couple of years ago that,
24:50
they were ordering drone on every single listing.
24:53
And a lot of these listings were small city lots that didn't have much yard
24:58
at all.
24:58
A lot of times there was trees covering up the front of the house,
25:01
or much of the property, and that drone just wasn't
25:05
it wasn't adding any value to their marketing effort.
25:07
And I, I, I got to the point I probably should have said
25:10
something earlier, but it finally clicked and I, I approached the agent.
25:14
I said, quick question.
25:16
Okay, no offense.
25:18
If there's a reason, great.
25:20
But can I ask, is there any particular reason
25:22
you're ordering drone on every single listing that we're doing?
25:26
And the response was, oh, I just I thought it would add marketing value.
25:30
And, you know, it's it's one more thing I can do.
25:32
The next agent isn't.
25:34
And I said, okay.
25:35
I said, totally get that, I understand that.
25:37
I said, but honestly, the drone itself,
25:40
in the photos that I'm getting or the if there was video isn't actually adding
25:45
a whole lot of visual impact to what you're trying to do for your client.
25:50
And I understand trying to build your brand.
25:52
I'm all in support of that, but I think you could save some marketing dollars by
25:56
limiting that on certain properties that really don't need it.
25:59
And let's find a creative way
26:00
to use those dollars somehow, else that will bring you some value.
26:04
And from that point on, she's like her.
26:07
I could see the kind of the slack jawed like,
26:10
did did you just, like, not sell yourself or.
26:14
But it
26:15
built trust because, yeah, we're not just trying to add increase
26:18
the average order value, just increase the value.
26:22
We really want them to benefit.
26:25
So if you can prove that to, you know, say you're just starting your business
26:28
and you finally get one shoot, if you can somehow establish that integrity
26:34
is being an honest, you know, hardworking vendor for that person
26:38
and ultimately a marketing partner, they're going to sing your praises.
26:42
That whole word of mouth advertising, I still think is the best advertising
26:45
you can get. Yeah.
26:48
Yeah, I agree.
26:48
I mean, that's, that's as you build this engine, it starts to feed itself.
26:53
And so as you can get more people,
26:55
you're basically creating an army of salespeople out there for you
26:58
because they're out there talking to all their colleagues.
27:01
And, and sometimes it's even, you know, other brokerages,
27:04
you know, that they have colleagues in that they're talking to.
27:06
And we've had a lot of doors open that way to where,
27:09
you know, somebody was like, hey, I know you shoot for so-and-so
27:12
over at, you know, Howard Hanna, you know, but what about us over here?
27:16
It's like, yeah, we can help you too.
27:17
And so it starts those conversations going and and believe it or not,
27:21
I'm not saying it will.
27:22
It will bring it down to, you know, zero marketing dollars
27:26
and zero tasks that you have to do for outreach and everything.
27:29
But you do start to see that scale to where you have a lot more income in
27:34
that you can be responsive to, versus having to spend more dollars,
27:38
more time doing the outreach, to bring clients to you.
27:41
They're actually seeking you out instead, right?
27:45
That's a good point to, as you do get established.
27:48
Yeah, you don't have to do as much of the grind.
27:51
But going back to that consistency, you don't want to start taking business
27:54
for granted either. Correct
27:56
Yeah.
27:57
That's a that's a big thing with our business, you know, is that
28:00
we take care of our clients, you know, and it doesn't matter
28:04
if they've been with us a day or they've been with us for ten years.
28:07
You know, we're we're taking care of them.
28:09
And that goes back to that consistency aspect is, is, you know, one,
28:13
when you're trying to bring clients and you have to be consistent,
28:16
you know, it's going to be several
28:17
phone calls, emails, meetings before you potentially earn their business.
28:21
And they try you out and then that's your time to shine that to really wow
28:25
them and win them over and bring them into your company.
28:28
And then once they're part of your clients, you know, once
28:32
they they're a part of your,
28:33
your network there, then you just you still need to take care of them.
28:36
So typically what we do with all of our clients is, is we
28:41
I always like to have that next action step with every client.
28:44
So, you know, if there's a client that I need to call today,
28:47
you know, I'll call them.
28:48
I'll check in with them, see how everything's going.
28:51
Maybe it's their say they're a new client.
28:53
We're going to check in
28:54
before their first appointment just to make sure
28:56
they have all the expectations and know what's coming.
28:58
And then we're going to check in after the appointment
29:01
and the media is delivered, to make sure everything looks good.
29:04
They're happy with how everything turned out.
29:06
And then I continually follow up to where we're pushing out the next outreach.
29:11
Maybe it's two weeks later, you know, saying, hey,
29:13
you know, and usually it's checking the listing to see is it pending?
29:16
Did it go under contract?
29:18
You know, what's the status of it?
29:20
So 2 to 2 to four weeks, we'll call them again
29:22
and just kind of check in on that status and if it's pending or,
29:25
you know, about, to go under contract, then congratulate them,
29:29
because that's a huge thing on their side is that they got that transaction done.
29:32
So congratulate them and then it doesn't it doesn't end there.
29:36
You know, typically I'm following up.
29:39
It just we use a little bit of judgment
29:41
on our, on our structure and every then but there's always a next action step.
29:45
It doesn't matter if that's two days away or if that's six months away.
29:48
We have something scheduled for that client as the next follow up
29:52
to make sure that they don't fall off the radar,
29:55
to make sure that they have everything that they need, that
29:57
the relationship stays strong and that consistency is really
30:01
what keeps people with you after you've won them as a new client.
30:05
Yeah, something as simple as wishing them a happy birthday.
30:08
So yeah, but something I like to do, I,
30:12
I try to find my clients on Facebook
30:16
and you might not be super active on Facebook, but realtors are there.
30:20
Most of most Realtors are on Facebook and have a business page or something,
30:25
but if you can find them on Facebook, you know you're going to
30:28
you're going to get those notifications about their birthdays.
30:30
So I had one this morning, Steve, the longtime client again.
30:35
And it's is it's the realtors assistant.
30:38
She is a licensed realtor as well.
30:39
But she does a lot of the assistant type of work.
30:42
It's her birthday.
30:43
So instead of just leaving a happy birthday message on her Facebook
30:47
page, I texted her and just, hey, happy birthday Suzanne.
30:51
You know, wishing you a great day.
30:53
Hope, pray, pray you have a wonderful time with your family and just shot that off.
30:59
I've had their business forever.
31:01
We have a great relationship, but I don't take that for granted.
31:04
Some human sort of touch.
31:05
Just a hey, thinking about you today.
31:07
Have a great birthday.
31:09
Here's the response I get.
31:11
Thank you so much, Craig.
31:12
Heart emoji.
31:13
So thoughtful of you to reach out.
31:16
It's just something I do, you know.
31:19
Yes, it's thoughtful, but I care about this person
31:21
because they're a great human being, you know?
31:24
And yes, I'm thankful for their business.
31:26
Just little things like that.
31:27
Send a thank you card now and then send them a Christmas card.
31:31
It's just all about those those little touches and staying consistent.
31:36
But I think we've covered
31:38
the consistency thing pretty well.
31:41
So let me ask you this.
31:43
Let's let's rewind a little bit.
31:44
Going back to that, that person that is just trying to get their business
31:47
off the ground and already, in a big market,
31:50
I don't know if there's a way for you to answer this or not, but
31:53
how long would you say it takes to establish a base of of clients
31:59
in two different markets, in an unsaturated market,
32:02
if there's such thing anymore or versus a saturated market,
32:06
can you give a ballpark on how long that effort might take to get
32:10
a small base of of clients?
32:13
Yeah, yeah, it's a tough question.
32:15
I don't
32:15
I don't know if I can give an exact ballpark,
32:18
you know, saying like interim, like you should be here in six months.
32:20
You should be here.
32:21
I think what you should be looking at is, you know, in a, in a saturated market,
32:26
obviously there's tons of business
32:27
to go around, but there's also a ton of competitors.
32:30
So you're competing against a lot of existing relationships
32:33
and trying to get that that business to come to you in an unsaturated market,
32:38
it's kind of the same is
32:39
there's there's less business to go around, there's less competition.
32:43
Probably your biggest competition that we've seen in smaller
32:46
markets is just that, the old cell phone, you know, to where they're
32:50
taking their cell phone and going out and shoot in their own photos.
32:53
So then it's just two different areas, you know, in one in an unsaturated market,
32:57
you're trying to get them to invest dollars
32:59
that they weren't previously investing and showing them the value of it.
33:03
And then on the flip side, you're getting them to,
33:05
to leave what they're comfortable with, with whoever they're currently working
33:07
with and come to you.
33:09
And so both of those situations, I think you kind of measure it
33:12
the same way, is I don't know if there's a time frame to say, you know,
33:16
like I said, certain benchmarks, but because that's going to vary
33:19
from company to company and quite a bit, you know, somebody that's for example,
33:23
if you're willing and able to pour ten grand into a marketing campaign,
33:27
you're going to be a lot better,
33:28
you know, jumpstart compared to somebody that has $100 advertising budget.
33:32
So there's this
33:33
there's just a difference there that it's hard to really differentiate.
33:36
But I think if you're just going through track the data, you know,
33:38
if you're starting today,
33:40
you know, once you get your first client, you know, that's you
33:43
that's kind of your first benchmark, you know,
33:44
and you're like, okay, I have my client built in, if you're not doing
33:48
this one thing that we look at to kind of identify
33:51
success in a market for us is looking at market share.
33:54
So get the data from the board, you know, see what the what
33:59
the entire number of listings hitting that market by month by year, all that data.
34:04
And then compare that to your shoot.
34:05
So if you if you're doing you know, let's say you're doing 50 a month,
34:10
you know, and then there is a
34:13
500 listings hitting that market every month.
34:15
So you have about 10% of the market share at that point.
34:18
So I think that's your benchmark, regardless of time or anything else,
34:22
get as soon as you can possibly identify what your market share is.
34:28
Kind of flag that and then your goal is to progress that.
34:31
You know, if you're at 1% today, how do you get to, 2% in a month?
34:35
How do you get to 6%, you know, in six months, whatever the case is.
34:38
So that I think is is probably the bigger key versus that,
34:42
the timeliness of it is just consistent check
34:46
ins and looking at the results.
34:49
And if you're not getting the results that you're wanting,
34:52
then something's not working.
34:54
And then that's where you have to kind of go back to the drawing board,
34:56
look to see what efforts you're making with your outreach, marketing, whatever
35:00
the case is, and if something's not progressing, then, you know, there's a
35:04
there's a broken link in that chain and go back and address that.
35:09
Do your next best draft, you know,
35:10
get a new approach out there and then start the process again.
35:15
Yeah, yeah.
35:16
The, the listener that, was talking with me,
35:19
you know, they said I'm
35:21
just trying to get my name out there and getting folks to call me back.
35:24
It's just been cricket crickets.
35:26
And my personality is such that I like a lot of face
35:30
to face, one on one type of things and and building relationship.
35:33
I think what I would do,
35:35
but this is my personality versus, say, Joy, who does a lot of events
35:38
and gets in front of a lot of people at once,
35:41
say you have even just one client,
35:45
the the word of mouth advertising.
35:48
I, like I said before, I'm still convinced is the most powerful form
35:52
of advertising in it because it lends credibility.
35:55
So what I would do is say you only have five clients.
36:00
They like you.
36:01
Let's assume that they like you. They like the work that you're doing.
36:03
You're not doing a ton for them, but they're using you and they like you.
36:08
Ask them. Now, I know this is going to be hard
36:10
during busy season because everybody is busy.
36:13
Ask if you can take them out to coffee or lunch or breakfast or something to get
36:18
some one on one time check in with them, see how their business is doing.
36:23
What are your goals?
36:24
You know, really add value, consult with them, brainstorm
36:27
some ideas with them, and before you leave, ask if there's
36:31
anybody in their office, their brokerage that they would be willing to refer you to
36:38
offer them
36:39
some sort of credit or thank you for the referral.
36:42
If that person ends up booking with you,
36:47
it starts slow. It's a grind.
36:49
But if you can do that face to face ask and you've established
36:52
a relationship with them, it will snowball.
36:55
if it grows exponentially.
36:58
But I think the important part, you know, I all credit to Eli Jones
37:03
with the Instagram method that has worked for a ton of people.
37:07
But I think there's something to be said for that face to face relationship
37:10
building and asking for the sale or asking for the referral.
37:14
Because, again, we're going back to the fact
37:16
that real estate is a relationship based business and the
37:20
the realtors, they're spending face to face time with their clients.
37:25
I really believe you've got to do the same.
37:28
So if you're willing to do that and then forego only really doing
37:32
digital advertising, get in front of people and build the rapport
37:37
and ask for the referrals and those things will snowball.
37:41
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
37:42
And kind of going back, you know, a couple of points
37:46
that you just made is, is that face to face interaction,
37:49
Instagram method, regardless of what you're doing,
37:53
there's a million different things you can do.
37:55
Like just to kind of give you an example, I,
37:56
we do a lot of cold outreach to clients to where
37:59
if we haven't worked with them before, we're just picking up the phone
38:01
and calling them, you know, and saying, introducing us who we are.
38:06
Typically we're just asking, you know, do you mind me asking
38:08
who you currently work with and kind of going from there?
38:12
You'd be amazed at how many doors that opens up by just asking
38:15
that simple question and and kind of feeding off of that.
38:18
You can go out in person and greet people you know, invite them to coffee,
38:21
like Craig said, or,
38:23
you know, if you can't pin them down, maybe just make pop ends to the office,
38:26
see if they're they're, you know, sensitive of their time to,
38:29
you know, don't expect an hour meeting when you stop into an office.
38:32
Just kind of it's more of a, hey, this is who I am, this is what I do.
38:35
And then you have the the grounds to kind of follow up after that.
38:39
But regardless of whatever method that you're doing,
38:41
just keep keep looking at it and seeing how can you improve it.
38:45
It's just amazing the little things that you can adjust.
38:48
How did the example come up to me yesterday from one of our,
38:52
our salespeople.
38:53
And, and they were doing the cold outreach to clients
38:56
and at their at their follow up, they would ask, you know, do you mind me?
38:59
Do you mind if I send you some information?
39:01
You know, just in case anything changes in the future?
39:04
And they were getting a few no's on that.
39:08
And so just talking through it, I was like, don't ask.
39:11
You know, just, just
39:12
you had a good conversation with them and just say,
39:14
hey, just so you know, I'm going
39:15
to send you my information just in case anything changes.
39:18
I've never had somebody say, no, don't do that.
39:20
You know, they might delete the email, but
39:23
at least you have the opportunity that to land in their inbox.
39:26
And and you know, we've seen firsthand where we get calls from emails
39:30
we sent a year ago, you know, to where again, top of mind, something changed.
39:34
And now they they need somebody to fill this need.
39:37
And they're like, yeah, great big reach out a while back.
39:40
And they look in their email and respond to that, that old contact.
39:43
So just, regardless of what you do, just monitor it and kind of
39:49
just analyze it, you know, see what's happening and see what tweaks you can do.
39:52
Because the methods are all successful.
39:54
It's just a matter of, you know, what matches best to your personality.
39:58
What what tweaks can you make to, to further, you know,
40:01
get more success from those outreach, you know, activities and whatnot.
40:06
And, it works really well.
40:08
You can make some small changes that has some big results over time.
40:12
ultimately just don't give up.
40:15
Yeah.
40:15
You know, we we know it can be a grind, especially now that we're,
40:19
you know, quite a few years into real estate media really becoming
40:23
a thing, a real niche market that a lot of people are wanting to get into.
40:27
We know it can be challenging, but don't give up
40:29
if you really have a passion for it
40:31
and enjoy the work, enjoyed the relationship
40:34
building, I think you're going to find a lot of fulfillment.
40:37
You just got to give it the time, and the time to develop the relationships.
40:42
I know we're beating a dead horse, Todd.
40:45
Now, I've talked about relationships for a couple years now, but that's what it
40:49
ultimately boils down to. And,
40:52
you know, I would even say even on cold calls, if you've got somebody else,
40:56
you know, see, you've got one client in a certain brokerage, check with that
41:00
client, ask if they mind if you use their name is a referral yourself.
41:05
When you're making the cold call to somebody,
41:09
call in to that that person say, hey, I know we've we've never met.
41:13
Introduce yourself.
41:14
I'm currently, providing the the real estate visual marketing for,
41:19
you know, your colleague so-and-so in your brokerage.
41:22
And, they said it it would be okay to to mention their name,
41:27
and, and just go from there.
41:30
Being able to
41:31
establish some credibility with people that you're already shooting for, right?
41:35
It doesn't hurt.
41:38
Put it that way. And the other thing
41:40
that popped into my mind, Steve, is you were mentioning things,
41:44
especially with with the,
41:48
we call them,
41:49
objections, you know, in, in sales development, overcoming objections.
41:52
And the most common one probably is, well, I already have
41:56
a photographer for,
41:59
don't assume I would say don't assume
42:02
that they're entirely happy with that photographer,
42:05
because sometimes there might be something going on that you just.
42:08
They've worked with them forever, but they're not quite happy with something.
42:13
And that's your opportunity to say,
42:16
hey, you know, if there's ever a time you need a,
42:19
you know, a backup or they're not available,
42:23
I'm here for you.
42:24
I just thought I'd put myself out there and say hello.
42:28
Yeah.
42:29
Asking those questions and and getting to the bottom of what
42:32
the actual issue is, or whatever
42:36
the actual objection is on that side of things is, is critical.
42:39
So as you're talking to people,
42:40
if they say they're currently working with somebody, Craig, like you said,
42:44
they may be working with somebody, it doesn't mean they're happy.
42:46
It doesn't mean that they're there.
42:48
You know, everything's going smoothly on that side.
42:50
So you can ask those questions.
42:51
You can ask, you know, do you mind me asking how how's everything going?
42:54
You know, and and that's not,
42:58
you know, a crazy question to ask.
42:59
And a lot of times by just asking that question,
43:03
they'll start kind of speaking out there.
43:04
Sometimes they'll hear, you know, it's like, hey, yeah,
43:07
it's actually my, my brother in law that's doing it for me, you know?
43:10
So they just kind of take that into consideration.
43:14
You want to
43:14
you want to respond based on what they said, not
43:17
you have your cans, your responses ready to go.
43:19
So listen and then respond and not just respond to respond.
43:23
And so a lot of times, you know, if it if it is that it's like I
43:27
ran into that several times or it's like, well, my my daughter's doing my,
43:30
my photography, you know,
43:31
because she's going to school for it or something along those lines.
43:35
You can still ask those
43:36
follow up questions and just say, hey, do you know,
43:39
is she able to do all the different services for you?
43:43
You know, like aerial and things along those lines?
43:45
Because a lot of times they might be a photographer,
43:47
but they don't have the ability to do other things.
43:49
And you can simply say, I get that, you know, they have the photography covered.
43:54
I'd love to be another,
43:55
you know, arrow in your quiver for whatever you need on that side.
43:58
So we can be available for, for drone or whatever the case would be.
44:03
And then even just asking how it's going for,
44:05
you know, standard it's like, yeah, I'm using XYZ company.
44:08
Ask how it's going.
44:09
And, you know, if they're if they're completely happy.
44:12
One thing I think that we've learned
44:14
is if they're like, yeah, I'm using this company and everything's great,
44:17
I love them. I've been using them for years.
44:19
You're not typically going to spend a ten minute conversation
44:22
and convince them, you know, and you don't want to convince them
44:24
that, that they're actually wrong on what their thought process is.
44:27
Right.
44:28
So, you know, spend your time wisely on that.
44:30
Don't don't ruin a future or a potential future relationship
44:34
because you're wanting to close the sale today.
44:36
Just have that conversation and say, oh, no, I completely get it.
44:39
You know, it sounds like you got everything
44:41
kind of working well for you, so I don't want to step on any toes.
44:45
I'd love to, you know, I'm
44:46
going to send you my info in case anything ever changes in the future.
44:49
And I'll follow up every.
44:50
You know, is it okay if I follow up in six months and, just kind of check in and,
44:56
you know, again, don't expect to get instant gratification
44:59
from that call, but I can tell you over time, they do convert.
45:04
You know, things change.
45:05
That person moves out of the area that person stopped doing,
45:08
you know, their business or whatever the case is.
45:10
They're working full time elsewhere.
45:12
And I can't tell you how many times I've called to follow up.
45:14
And it's like, actually, it's funny you call
45:16
because I'm actually looking for somebody now, you know, so
45:19
that that's that top of mind is what will get you there.
45:22
And just building the relationship is, is kind of the step stool
45:25
to get to that point.
45:27
One thing I, I say to
45:29
Todd, I'm used to talking about one thing I say, Steve,
45:33
when when I do get that response of, hey, I've been, you know,
45:36
I've got a photographer, I've been working with them forever, and they're happy.
45:40
I respect loyalty,
45:42
I want my clients to be loyal to me,
45:45
you know, assuming that I'm providing them good service.
45:48
So I respect that in a competitor
45:51
that is providing good service for their client.
45:54
And I let that that person that I'm talking to know, hey, I respect that.
45:58
You know, I'm not.
45:59
Yeah.
45:59
I'm not going to push hard on that if they're ever not available.
46:03
And you just you need to shoot by by a certain date,
46:06
you know, hey, we'd love to be a secondary for you.
46:09
And, and it just cover, you know, cover for your current photographer.
46:13
And then that builds respect in them because you're not impinging
46:16
on the relationship that they value already.
46:21
think of it from the other perspective.
46:24
You know, if you were an agent
46:25
and you got a call, somebody trying to sell you on something
46:29
and you just told them how much you and you really like the,
46:32
the person or the company that you're working with now.
46:35
And then their next response is, well, let me tell you why they're not good.
46:38
And I am like that.
46:40
That's something that
46:41
that you're just never going to really recover from, because that it's
46:44
that first impression in their mind is going to be like,
46:46
wow, he was really pushy or like, I just they didn't and I'm happy.
46:49
And and now he's he didn't listen to me. Yeah.
46:51
Yeah yeah.
46:53
So I mean that is that is critical on that side of things.
46:55
And that is something that I think a lot of
46:58
when you're thinking that the traditional like sales person, that's
47:02
where some of that falls off on success because they're not listening.
47:07
They're just ready to respond
47:09
with whatever they want to say next, not reacting to what they say.
47:13
I've got to tell you a story, and I wish I would have been in our sales
47:16
meeting Monday morning
47:17
because this was a perfect example of what you're just talking about.
47:20
And then if you've got anything to close with, we'll wrap things up here.
47:23
But I have to hear the story, Steve.
47:26
So I went to the car wash
47:29
was I think it was last week, and there's this one car wash in town
47:33
that it's easy to get in and out of, and it is popular.
47:37
But I noticed they started doing something that royally irritated me.
47:43
And it's happened, I think, twice in this.
47:46
Last week was the third time that since I started noticing this,
47:50
that I pulled up and I'm like, God, please don't let this happen.
47:53
What they started doing was they have automated kiosks, two
47:57
different lanes, one for members,
47:58
one for single car washes that feed into going into the car wash.
48:02
You know, you select which wash you want.
48:05
It's all self-serve.
48:06
It's really nice. It's easy, it's low pressure.
48:09
But obviously they're trying to push these monthly memberships
48:11
with their advertising and their signage. It's all very clear.
48:14
It's very well, you know, spelled out.
48:17
It's not hard to understand
48:19
what they started doing a couple of months ago
48:23
with sending one of their employees out to stand at the automated kiosk.
48:27
As you pull up and push the buttons for you
48:31
and and try and talk to you into doing the monthly membership.
48:36
Now, I hate hard sales
48:38
and pushy sales, and it irritated me.
48:41
So this last week when I pulled up, there was nobody out there
48:45
or somebody had been out there, but they walked back in.
48:47
I thought, oh, awesome, I'm going to be able
48:48
to get through and squeeze through
48:49
without them bugging me to try and push their monthly program and get.
48:54
Doesn't it happen that they
48:56
walk back out as I'm then pulling up, I'm like,
49:00
I'm going to tell them how I feel about this because I'm
49:02
really kind of insulted
49:05
that everything is laid out.
49:07
I understand the monthly program.
49:09
It's all there in front of me.
49:10
You have an automated system for me to serve myself.
49:13
Very easy to hit my button, put my credit card in and just go right.
49:17
I don't want a sales presentation as I'm going into a car wash.
49:21
So this guy comes out and he starts to starts to talk.
49:25
I'm like,
49:28
let me just say something.
49:29
I said, this is I'm not trying to be mean.
49:32
I'm not trying to be, you know, rude or anything like that, I said,
49:35
but I'm in sales myself, and I'm just going to share
49:38
for some feedback for you, for your leadership, your management.
49:42
I find it really offputting for you guys to come out here and push the buttons.
49:47
For me, when it's an automated system that's very easy to operate
49:51
and try and talk me into a monthly program.
49:54
It's a hard sales tactic.
49:56
It's a very pushy sales tactic, and it's really off putting to the point
49:59
where I'm probably not going to come back to this car wash.
50:03
And of course, he he kind of froze and
50:08
I'm like, I'm not trying to be mean to you.
50:10
I'm because I understand he's probably doing this
50:14
because his boss told him this is what the program is
50:16
now, what they have to do is they're trying to get sales goals.
50:19
Right. I get this.
50:21
And so Steve, no joke.
50:24
His response, his response was,
50:28
well, we understand, but we're just trying to really push the monthly program
50:31
and let people know how they can save money.
50:34
But he literally use the words push this program.
50:39
Oh man. Yes.
50:42
My jaw dropped.
50:43
I'm like,
50:44
did you just hear what you said and what I just said?
50:48
And he kind of looks at me blankly again.
50:50
I'm like, I don't want you pushing a program on me.
50:54
I go to the car wash maybe once every six weeks.
50:56
That program is not going to save me any money.
50:59
He wasn't actively listening.
51:02
I had a similar experience I can throw out real quick recently.
51:05
Just as an example is, we have, you know, I mow our own lawn.
51:09
You know, we don't have a huge lawn, but we do have a company that comes out
51:13
and treats it like, I think, twice a year, you know, so nothing crazy.
51:17
So they contacted me.
51:19
We've been using them for years, for just for the treatment on that side of things.
51:23
They contacted me and they're trying to get more business
51:26
for the actual mowing and landscaping and everything else.
51:29
And so I told him, I'm mow my own lawn.
51:32
And I mean, just verbatim, I can tell they're reading from a script.
51:36
And so after I say I mow my own mind, they're telling me how
51:40
they can save me money compared to who I'm currently paying to have do it.
51:45
And so again, just going back to, you know, you're not listening at all.
51:48
You're just responding just to respond.
51:50
And, honestly, I it got to the point.
51:54
I told them no three times and they're still telling me how,
51:57
you know, they can save me money or whatever the case is, to the point
52:00
where I canceled my other service with them.
52:02
Oh, I'm not,
52:04
you know, it's it's not something that I want to go through and everything else.
52:07
So, I mean, we all have examples like that.
52:10
And so just think of that mindset as you're talking to people,
52:13
you know, is, is is if you were if roles were reversed,
52:17
you know, would you how would you feel about how you're,
52:20
how you're you're taking this conversation.
52:22
Right.
52:22
And if you want to feel good about it, then you're probably doing
52:26
something wrong.
52:27
And I would adjust, you know, that approach.
52:29
But, you know, just put yourself in the other person's shoes and,
52:32
and I think that goes a long way
52:34
in the mentality behind the sales side of things for sure.
52:38
Keys. Yeah.
52:38
That ended up costing them money.
52:40
Yeah.
52:41
It's not it's not a ton of money on their side.
52:43
But you know, it's the opposite of what they were looking for.
52:46
And and so there's little fans can really and and you know I'm going to be out
52:50
in the community if somebody says, hey do you know somebody that can do this?
52:54
My answer is probably going to be like, well, I tell you who not to use.
52:57
Yeah.
52:58
So it actually can work against you even beyond that one customer.
53:02
So just be just be conscious of those conversations.
53:04
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
53:06
Steve, thank you so much for taking time this week to to join us.
53:10
Just always enjoy having you on and sharing your knowledge,
53:13
with, with those that are watching, listening and trying to, to develop their,
53:17
their business development as well.
53:19
So thank you. Yes, thanks for having me.
53:21
I always enjoy kind of talking through the the sales and marketing side.
53:25
So hopefully that helps everybody.
53:27
And if there's any any follow up questions I'd love to know afterwards as well.
53:31
Yeah.
53:32
If somebody wanted to reach out to you or how can they get Ahold of you?
53:37
Probably the easiest way to reach me is just by email.
53:39
So it's just Steve@wowvideotours.com
53:42
and, I'd be glad to to help out where I can.
53:45
Yeah.
53:46
So feel free.
53:46
Or if you want because we always repeat this email.
53:50
Just email hello@spiro.media and just say
53:53
hey I'd love to get in contact with Steve and we can put you in contact
53:56
with Steve as well.
53:57
So yeah.
53:58
All right.
53:58
Well Steve thank you. Appreciate it.
54:01
Yes. Thank you.
54:02
Yeah. Enjoy your weekend. Yes.
54:04
yes, thank you. you too.
54:05
For those of you watching listening again thank you for making the time.
54:08
If you found value in this obviously we always appreciate a like,
54:12
you know, on, on the YouTube channel,
54:15
feel free to leave any comments, things that you've learned that might help
54:18
somebody else in, in a different market.
54:21
We, we love the community building and just sharing of ideas
54:24
and things like that.
54:25
But yeah, we appreciate you guys.
54:27
Hopefully you found value in that is if you're struggling
54:29
a little bit with getting your, your, business development effort going.
54:33
Lots of creative ideas out there.
54:36
But ultimately it all boils down to consistency and relationship. So.
54:41
All right, you guys have a great week.
54:42
Make sure you take some time,
54:44
especially as we head into the busy season here, to, you know, just be thankful
54:48
for the blessings in your life and make sure you take a breath as well.
54:52
Have a great week.
54:53
Thank you for joining us for the Spiro Podcast,
54:56
managing your real estate, photography and videography business.
54:59
This is a production of Spiro and Wow video Tours.
55:03
You can find out more about Spiro
55:05
is Real Estate Media Business management software at our website.
55:09
Spiro.media.