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A Prairie Dawn Companion - The Ballad of Rodeo Rosie · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:04
  November has always been a good month for Sesame Street.
• 0:08
  The show premiered on November 10th, 1969 and thus for years
• 0:14
  new seasons began every November.
• 0:17
  But also, since 1974, the Sesame cast has appeared in basically
• 0:24
  every Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.
• 0:28
  Personally, this has always been exciting to me, even as a grown
• 0:32
  up or whatever passes for a grown up for a 34 year old with
• 0:37
  a Sesame Street podcast, the Sesame float is a highlight for
• 0:41
  me every year. Every year my parents yell
• 0:45
  Becca, The Muppets are on and I have to run to the TV to catch
• 0:49
  30 seconds of stronger, smarter, kinder or whatever they're
• 0:53
  singing this year. Wait a second, that's not right.
• 0:57
  What's the name of that song? I'll come back to it.
• 1:01
  Let's just keep going. Anyway, I like checking in on
• 1:05
  the parade for similar reasons why I like reading about old rag
• 1:09
  doll lines or thinking about branded socks.
• 1:13
  Like we said in earlier discussions of merchandise,
• 1:16
  events like the Macy's Day Parade require the Sesame brand
• 1:20
  to condense its massive cast down to a core group, giving a
• 1:25
  good sense of who was viewed as important.
• 1:29
  So 1974 is the first year the Sesame crew rode in the parade,
• 1:34
  and you can guess who was the core group then.
• 1:37
  Bert, Ernie. Big Bird, Oscar, Mr. Hooper.
• 1:42
  In 1975 there was no float, and then in 1976 there was a slight
• 1:48
  change to the lineup. Joining our main puppet gang was
• 1:53
  a new character who debuted on Sesame Street two years earlier.
• 1:58
  Riding alongside Ernie and Bert was your friend and mine.
• 2:03
  Rodeo Rosie, what's the name of that song?
• 2:13
  Oh, that's the name of the song, you know.
• 2:17
  By the time Rodeo Rosie appeared in the Thanksgiving parade, her
• 2:22
  time on Sesame Street was ending.
• 2:25
  Before the parade, she appeared on the show only five times in
• 2:29
  two years. After the parade, in one sketch
• 2:34
  that would be re aired 3 more times before it was abandoned 9
• 2:39
  times total. Then she shows up in the 1977
• 2:44
  parade, and then never again. To me, decades later, her parade
• 2:50
  appearances seem bizarre, simultaneously championing her
• 2:55
  as a main character while also serving as her swan song.
• 3:01
  Prairie Dawn didn't appear in a Thanksgiving parade until 1994,
• 3:07
  but Rosie? Rosie was here with a featured
• 3:11
  role on national television twice.
• 3:15
  What's interesting, though, is as a kid born in 1991, I knew
• 3:20
  Rodeo Rosie. Her appearances weren't being
• 3:24
  aired, but I knew Rosie. I didn't like Rosie, but I knew
• 3:29
  her on this show. I feel like I'm always asking if
• 3:34
  characters were meant to be main characters.
• 3:37
  But honestly, for Rodeo Rosie, that question is more
• 3:41
  interesting than usual and that's why I think I need to
• 3:47
  spend a whole episode talking about her.
• 3:50
  So folks, as the saying goes, Save a Horse podcast about a
• 3:55
  cowgirl or something. We're having a down home
• 3:59
  hootenanny as we try to figure out is rodeo.
• 4:03
  Rosie, Good mothers, don't let your babies become Cowgirls.
• 4:09
  And you'll find out why right here on A Prairie Dawn
• 4:14
  Companion. Ladies and gentlemen, the
• 4:17
  Starlight Hotel takes great pride in presenting the world's
• 4:21
  favorite 6 year old entertainer, Miss Prairie.
• 4:24
  Dawn, come on girls, girls, girls, let's go do girls stuff.
• 4:36
  Can you play a song with a beats?
• 4:48
  So here's the thing about Rodeo Rosie.
• 4:51
  I said earlier that I knew her in 1991 despite not seeing any
• 4:56
  clips with her until I was a grown adult with YouTube access.
• 5:01
  And that's because of transmedia.
• 5:04
  You remember transmedia, The term we discussed in our second
• 5:07
  episode, the one on Betty Lou. Basically, it refers to the idea
• 5:12
  that certain media properties span multiple formats, and in
• 5:17
  the case of Sesame Street, we know that means albums and books
• 5:20
  and toys and dolls and puppets and big birds walking letters
• 5:25
  or, you know, stuff like that. Rosie may have only ever
• 5:29
  appeared in six total sketches, but she appeared fairly
• 5:34
  consistently in books. Never albums, rarely
• 5:38
  merchandise, but in 49 different books that spanned the years
• 5:43
  between 1977 and 1992. But why?
• 5:50
  She literally stopped appearing in new material before her first
• 5:54
  book appearance. I think other than Grover's
• 5:58
  Mommy, who we'll discuss One Day Rodeo, Rosie has the worst ratio
• 6:03
  between show appearances and book appearances, appearing in
• 6:08
  over 8 times as many books as episodes with new rosy content.
• 6:15
  Why her? By 1974, hadn't Hollywood
• 6:19
  stopped caring about Cowboys? Did kids like Cowboys?
• 6:25
  Well, to answer that question, I figured that I need to bring in
• 6:29
  the big guns. Or I guess the big lasso.
• 6:34
  This week I'm talking to a real life cowgirl, and by that I mean
• 6:40
  a friend of mine from the Southern United States.
• 6:43
  My guest today is Rachel Garrett Steele, an amazing writer and
• 6:48
  composer who you might know for writing music for Fallout 4 Nuka
• 6:53
  World. Let's join her in the guest
• 6:55
  corner so we can try to rustle up some rodeo.
• 6:59
  Rosy insight all. Right.
• 7:01
  It's Showtime, people. Oh welcome, oh welcome to our
• 7:11
  little play, play. So like I said, my guest today
• 7:31
  is a a dear friend of mine. I'm so happy to have, for her
• 7:36
  first time on a Tough Pigs podcast, my friend Rachel
• 7:41
  Garrett Steele. Rachel, welcome.
• 7:45
  Hi, thank you for having me. Oh, Rachel, it is a pleasure.
• 7:49
  You know, what's the point of having your own podcast about
• 7:54
  female Muppets if you don't use that as an excuse to get your
• 7:58
  friends on your podcast about female Muppets?
• 8:02
  I mean, I think especially when your friends kind of are female
• 8:05
  Muppets, yeah, it's critical. I mean, you know, Rachel, you're
• 8:10
  qualified for so many reasons because you're just a wonderful
• 8:13
  person who is so, so knowledgeable about so many
• 8:16
  things. But you know, the reason I
• 8:18
  reached out to you in particular is because you are a friend of
• 8:23
  mine who is from the South. I am.
• 8:29
  I am from the southern United States.
• 8:32
  It is true. I am from Arkansas.
• 8:36
  And I wasn't sure if Arkansas was cowboy town or not, but I
• 8:41
  felt like if if anyone could tell me a little bit about what
• 8:46
  it's like to care about Cowboys, I figured it would be.
• 8:52
  I figured it would be someone from from the South.
• 8:55
  But also I just have a genuine and, and we were texting a
• 8:58
  little bit about this. I have a genuine question, which
• 9:01
  is just like, is Rodeo Rosie good?
• 9:06
  Do we like Rodeo Rosie? And I feel like there's two
• 9:10
  layers to this question, which is first of all, like, do we
• 9:14
  like Cowboys? And then do we like Rodeo Rosie?
• 9:19
  And I was like, there's no one I want to explore that with more
• 9:23
  than my dear friend Rachel. Yeah.
• 9:26
  I mean, those are both actually, I think really big questions.
• 9:31
  And I like, I don't even know where to start talking about
• 9:34
  this. I mean, do you want to talk
• 9:38
  first about like Rodeo Rosie's whole deal because there's just
• 9:41
  so little of it, or do you just kind of?
• 9:44
  Sure. Well, let's, let's talk a little
• 9:45
  bit. You know, I'll have mentioned
• 9:47
  some of this already. I haven't reported my little
• 9:49
  cold open, but I'll mention some of this later.
• 9:53
  Rodeo Rosie is a really strange Muppet for several reasons.
• 9:58
  Not only because not exclusively, but definitely
• 10:02
  because she's one of the the final humanoid Muppets to have a
• 10:08
  full set of teeth. And they're really distressing.
• 10:12
  I don't like them. They're just, they're
• 10:14
  horrifying, honestly, they're there's a lot about the
• 10:18
  character that's distracting and the the teeth still manage to
• 10:25
  make like the top five, right? Like it's.
• 10:29
  Yeah, oh, oh, 100%. I I think I got used to them by
• 10:33
  the end of doing my research. I think I got teeth.
• 10:36
  Stockholm Syndrome. Well, great for you.
• 10:39
  I'm still actively horrified by the teeth.
• 10:43
  Folks at home and most people listening to this podcast or, or
• 10:47
  many people listening to this podcast, 'cause I know we've got
• 10:50
  a bunch of, you know, big Muppet fans listening.
• 10:54
  This morning I had the pleasure of introducing Rachel to the
• 10:57
  concept of Bert's, Bert's nephew, Brad's teeth.
• 11:04
  So that was a great thing for Rachel to to be be eating,
• 11:08
  eating breakfast during. I yeah, yeah, I actually didn't
• 11:13
  have much of an appetite after dealing with Brad's teeth.
• 11:16
  But more importantly, Rodeo Rosy.
• 11:19
  Let's get back to Rodeo Rosy. Rodeo Rosy's a purple anything
• 11:24
  Muppet. It's the same Anything Muppet
• 11:26
  Base that would be built into or was already built into the
• 11:31
  Count. And the amazing Mumford that
• 11:35
  counts like Sexy Cousin. Yes, exactly.
• 11:38
  And Granny Fanny Nestle Rd. who we discussed on the fourth
• 11:42
  episode of this show, It's all the same anything Muppet Base
• 11:46
  Rodeo. Rosie's a cowgirl.
• 11:48
  She's got red braided hair and a white or light tan cowboy hat
• 11:54
  and a bright pink cowboy jacket with a Muppet cow emblazoned on
• 12:00
  the back of it. And Rodeo Rosie has hideous
• 12:05
  teeth and is performed by Jerry Nelson.
• 12:09
  So once again, like with Betty Lou, we have an example of a
• 12:15
  female character being performed by a male puppeteer.
• 12:20
  It's Jerry Nelson doing a falsetto.
• 12:23
  And I got to be honest with you, a pretty annoying falsetto.
• 12:27
  Well, you got to get up early in the morning to follow Rosie, and
• 12:30
  even then you can't. Yeah, it's, it's not his best,
• 12:35
  honestly. Now I will say, I will say that
• 12:37
  I I did sort of deeply relate to a Southern woman with a
• 12:41
  masculine voice that was. Yeah, I I like to think of you
• 12:47
  as the real rodeo, Rosie, because you can, you can
• 12:50
  absolutely relate to that. I can.
• 12:52
  Well, I mean, you know, what I tell people is I was AI was a
• 12:56
  young cowboy and, and didn't much like where that was headed.
• 12:59
  So I I changed directions and now you might say I'm kind of a
• 13:02
  reverse cowgirl. Thank you, I expected you to
• 13:05
  make that joke on this show because I know that you love
• 13:09
  making that joke. I do.
• 13:11
  I'm sorry. No, no, no.
• 13:14
  Not a lot of people know me well enough to have heard it more
• 13:16
  than once, but you know, so. The thing about Rodeo Rosie
• 13:24
  that's so mystifying to me is it feels like Rodeo Rosie was
• 13:29
  supposed to be a main character and and I have no, no notes on
• 13:35
  this. I don't have notes from from
• 13:38
  Sesame Workshop on this Rodeo Rosie appears for the first time
• 13:42
  in the premiere of season 6, which was November 4th, 1974.
• 13:48
  It's the season premiere, weirdly enough.
• 13:51
  It's episode 666. Maybe.
• 13:55
  Maybe foretelling Rosie's doom Rodeo.
• 13:58
  Rosie appears for the first time there.
• 14:01
  And oftentimes Sesame Street obviously isn't the kind of show
• 14:05
  like Lost where it's like you got to watch every episode to
• 14:09
  understand what's going on. I, I know that this is a show
• 14:13
  for babies. I want to make that very clear.
• 14:16
  But oftentimes in the in the first episode of a season, they
• 14:22
  would introduce new characters or sort of re establish what the
• 14:27
  status quo would be. And not only does Rosie first
• 14:32
  appear in this episode, Rosie introduces herself to the
• 14:36
  neighborhood in this episode. Well, I've got to say I'm right
• 14:40
  pleased to meet up with all of you.
• 14:45
  And I've got to say, it's even nice to be here on your kind of
• 14:49
  puny little St. So it truly seems like Rosie is
• 14:53
  like I'm Rosie. I'm here to stay.
• 14:57
  Except Rosie then doesn't show up again in the entirety of
• 15:01
  Season 6 of Sesame Street. Doesn't appear again for another
• 15:07
  year until Season 7. Appears four times in Season 7,
• 15:14
  ending with an appearance in the 1976 Thanksgiving Parade.
• 15:20
  Her vocals are audible. It is clear the camera focuses
• 15:24
  on Rodeo Rosie at some point and then after that Thanksgiving
• 15:27
  parade, she will appear in one more segment and then never
• 15:31
  again on Sesame Street. So simultaneously she feels like
• 15:36
  a a main character who they wanted to care about who
• 15:40
  interacts with Big Bird, with all the adults, with Grover, who
• 15:45
  gets a big introduction, who introduces this character of
• 15:49
  Lance as well, her horse, who we'll talk a little bit about,
• 15:52
  but not that much because he's a boy.
• 15:54
  And and then just vanishes and, and I can't really say why she
• 16:00
  vanishes. I wish there was a reason that I
• 16:03
  could cite like with, you know, Roosevelt Franklin's classmates
• 16:07
  last week that we talked about sort of leaving the show due to
• 16:10
  controversy. Rodeo Rosie is both so many
• 16:15
  things and so few things all at once.
• 16:18
  And I find that so fascinating. Yeah.
• 16:21
  I mean, I think from my perspective, it kind of feels
• 16:24
  like maybe the reason that she's so sporadic and the reason that
• 16:28
  she disappears is that they aren't quite sure what they want
• 16:31
  to to do with her. You know, I mean, like,
• 16:35
  obviously she's broad in the way that a lot of Sesame Street
• 16:38
  characters and a lot of Muppet characters are broad.
• 16:41
  You know, she's got her big obvious hook.
• 16:44
  You know, she's got her lasso and, you know, she's she's down
• 16:48
  from, you know, some unspecified land in the South where
• 16:52
  everything's bigger. So presumably Texas.
• 16:55
  It's presumably a Texas. Yeah.
• 16:57
  I mean, yeah. And I, I I would say given her.
• 17:02
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, what does that mean?
• 17:08
  What does that look like? Because when she first shows up,
• 17:12
  it's it's actually kind of this poignant thing.
• 17:15
  And I had a little bit of a hard time with it because like I was
• 17:18
  a very like not narrow, but like I was a very focused child and
• 17:23
  like truth and like, you know, facts and like objectable, you
• 17:28
  know, objective, like knowable reality was all very important
• 17:31
  to me. And, you know, you would have
• 17:33
  those kids on the playground who would just like make up, you
• 17:38
  know, it's the like, oh, well, if you climbed the top of the
• 17:43
  Mario 64 tower like 100 times and you backflip to this like
• 17:47
  one specific pixel and then Luigi will be there.
• 17:49
  And then like, they would just like leave.
• 17:51
  And you would go like wreak havoc trying to do this thing
• 17:54
  that they had just like completely made-up, right?
• 17:56
  Because kids want to impress each other.
• 17:58
  It it angered me. Like, I had like a really sort
• 18:02
  of like, tightly wound sense of justice, and I still do.
• 18:06
  And it, it feels like in this in this scene, that that is sort of
• 18:09
  the lesson they're going for with Rodeo Rosie because she's
• 18:13
  telling tall tales is what's going on.
• 18:15
  Look, see, where I come from, everything is the biggest.
• 18:19
  We got the biggest everything. Biggest trees, Biggest stars.
• 18:22
  Yes, indeed. I mean, everything is bigger.
• 18:25
  Biggest everything. That's right.
• 18:27
  Even our animals are the biggest.
• 18:29
  We got ants this big. Wait a minute, wait a minute,
• 18:33
  wait a second. Hold it up now.
• 18:35
  She's saying that everything was bigger where she came from and
• 18:37
  the adults are like Rosie, you don't have to make stuff up for
• 18:41
  us to like you. No, like it was intense, right?
• 18:44
  Like she's talking about these. Yeah.
• 18:48
  Like the trees were bigger, the clouds are bigger.
• 18:52
  The ants are like up to your ankle.
• 18:55
  It was kind of horrific, really. And you know, the, the, the
• 18:58
  punch line to this is, of course, Big Bird enters and she
• 19:02
  goes. Big bird, you call that big?
• 19:05
  Why? Back where I come from, we got
• 19:07
  birds. Twash yourself, we got.
• 19:10
  And and that's supposed to be funny because obviously Big Bird
• 19:13
  is the biggest bird, but it's in his name that is not brought up
• 19:18
  again, if that was the lesson that they wanted to teach with
• 19:22
  Rosie. Rosie doesn't tell tale tell
• 19:25
  tall tales ever again on the show.
• 19:28
  No, no. I mean, I mean, and it's
• 19:31
  honestly probably for the best that she not be so completely
• 19:34
  OneNote, right? I mean, you say that, but then
• 19:36
  she becomes even more OneNote. Well, yes, she gets a second
• 19:41
  note and then they press it a lot.
• 19:43
  But I mean, OK, so like, I guess what I'm trying to say is if
• 19:45
  they did want her to have sort of like longevity, right, then
• 19:50
  like she doesn't need a personality.
• 19:52
  Like Cookie Monster kind of gets away with it.
• 19:54
  But like Big Bird and Snuffalopagus and you know,
• 19:57
  Kermit, they have personalities. I feel like, I feel like there's
• 20:02
  two kinds of Muppets, and we talk a lot about like order
• 20:05
  Muppets and chaos Muppets as a distinction.
• 20:08
  That's something you'll hear all the time.
• 20:10
  But I feel like there's main character Muppets and Comic
• 20:14
  Relief Muppets. And like Cookie Monster doesn't
• 20:18
  need to have a well-rounded personality because his role is
• 20:22
  just to be funny and to be a punchline, right?
• 20:26
  And the count is just funny and a punchline or maybe has some
• 20:30
  catchy songs. But like Big Bird has a nuanced
• 20:34
  personality and like deals with issues and kids get to watch
• 20:38
  him, you know, learning about grief and stuff.
• 20:42
  And and you know, and Elmo is like that today.
• 20:46
  And like you said, Snuffy had some moments of that as well.
• 20:50
  Whereas again, like you're not. And there's some characters who
• 20:53
  can kind of walk the line in between those two things.
• 20:56
  Rosie feels like maybe she was just intended to just be a Comic
• 21:00
  Relief character like Cookie Monster, but she's also not
• 21:04
  funny. Whereas Cookie Monster, Cookie
• 21:06
  Monster is funny. Like we can agree that Cookie
• 21:09
  Monster is funny. Yes.
• 21:12
  No, I I mean, I'm the last person to claim that cookie.
• 21:15
  I mean, I'm. I'm not a monster, Becca.
• 21:18
  At least not the kind who would go around making claims of that
• 21:23
  nature. I Yeah, No.
• 21:25
  Telling tall tales about how where you live now, monsters eat
• 21:29
  twice as much cookies. You call that a funny monster?
• 21:32
  That's not a funny monster. Wow, you are good at that.
• 21:37
  Thank you. But no, yeah, then it it, it
• 21:45
  sort of takes a turn because then the next bit and you see it
• 21:50
  what, like 3 or 4 times is that she becomes kind of hyper
• 21:55
  vigilant about like cattle rustlers and grocery thieves and
• 22:02
  just sort of spends all of her time hog tying the adults with
• 22:07
  her lariat for fear that they are either robbing Mr. Hooper's
• 22:11
  store or stealing her horse. Wahoo.
• 22:18
  Gotcha. Rosie.
• 22:19
  Yeah. Trying to break into this store
• 22:20
  too, huh? Oh, that's a good thing.
• 22:23
  I stuck around and kept my own. This critter.
• 22:26
  Rosie, wait a minute. You didn't even give me a chance
• 22:28
  to take the tool out of the toolbox.
• 22:31
  What do you think I'm gonna let you get a high head start?
• 22:33
  Don't be silly. We got a new crown in the butt.
• 22:36
  Yeah, there's, there's definitely in In what is her
• 22:40
  second to last appearance, which I labeled as Rodeo, Rosie Stops
• 22:45
  the Runner, which was from Season 7, episode 845, which
• 22:53
  aired February 6th, 1976. Rosie seems to suggest that her
• 22:59
  job is protecting Cooper's store and you get the sense that she
• 23:05
  decided that was her job. Not Mr. Hooper, but literally.
• 23:11
  Second appearance in December 4th, 1975.
• 23:16
  She thinks Oscar is robbing an imaginary Stagecoach and
• 23:21
  Lasso's. Oscar thinks everyone is
• 23:24
  stealing her horse Lance, so throws the lariat around Bob's
• 23:28
  neck like 4 times. And her third appearance, In her
• 23:33
  4th appearance, she thinks both Mr. Hooper and Luis are breaking
• 23:36
  into stores and throws the lariat around Mister Hooper and
• 23:40
  Luis's neck. And then in Rodeo, Rosie stops
• 23:44
  the runner. She gets Big Bird and she gets
• 23:47
  Mr. Hooper. Right and like.
• 23:49
  And maybe also somebody else I'm I'm forgetting.
• 23:52
  It doesn't matter. The point is that's her thing is
• 23:55
  she's hyper vigilant about people doing crimes and throws
• 24:00
  her lasso around their necks and tightens it around their necks,
• 24:04
  which is weird. To see Yeah, yeah, no, I mean,
• 24:08
  it's, it's actually kind of upsetting imagery in 2025,
• 24:13
  right? Like I, you know, and, and
• 24:16
  especially if if the character is, you know, supposed to be
• 24:22
  this like southern gal who's like hyper vigilant, having
• 24:26
  moved to the big city, like that, that in itself is kind of
• 24:31
  ugly. And and then also like it, it
• 24:34
  becomes this thing where like the very careful, very
• 24:38
  practiced, like deliberate pointed diversity of the Sesame
• 24:42
  Street cast kind of makes her bit like genuinely ugly for her
• 24:52
  to just sort of like go around accusing these people of crimes
• 24:55
  and like, you know, throwing a rope around their neck.
• 24:58
  Like it's it's not a great look. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's not
• 25:05
  great imagery to see Rodeo Rosie, you know, throw a rope
• 25:10
  around the neck of like, Susan, a black woman.
• 25:14
  Like, it especially feels like there's some sort of context
• 25:19
  there that I don't love. Yeah, no, I mean, and you know,
• 25:23
  I can talk about it being ugly in 2025, but also like we are
• 25:30
  fresh off of the civil rights movement, you know, like.
• 25:34
  So I always say this, just to put this in perspective, 1969 is
• 25:38
  the year Sesame Street premieres rodeo.
• 25:41
  Rosie makes her first rodeo. Rosie makes her first appearance
• 25:44
  in 19741968 is the year Martin Luther King is assassinated.
• 25:51
  Gosh, 1969 when Sesame Street debuts.
• 25:56
  And we talked about this on an earlier episode.
• 25:59
  It's banned in Mississippi. They refused to air it in
• 26:02
  Mississippi because it shows an interracial neighborhood.
• 26:06
  So we are really not that far removed from the civil rights
• 26:11
  movement. The original Gordon was a A
• 26:14
  major like civil rights activist before and during his time on
• 26:21
  the show. I mean, and you know, it's all
• 26:27
  of those things are still very present for those with eyes to
• 26:32
  see them, right? I mean, I, I used to work out of
• 26:38
  a company in Memphis, right? I was living in Austin at the
• 26:41
  time. How big?
• 26:43
  How big were things there? I, you know, every, it, it is
• 26:46
  true that everything's bigger in Texas.
• 26:48
  I mean, it just, it just is, you know, I'm, I'm sorry, OK.
• 26:51
  We'll continue. I shouldn't interrupt this.
• 26:53
  This was a serious conversation. No, no, no, it's fine.
• 26:56
  You know, it's, it's, we're talking about race relations.
• 26:59
  We are. But you know, sometimes you've
• 27:01
  also got to talk about wide open spaces and room to make a big
• 27:05
  mistake. But no, it, it actually, we were
• 27:09
  talking about this because you were talking about, you know,
• 27:12
  are Cowboys still a thing where you're from?
• 27:15
  Right. And the truth is there are a lot
• 27:17
  of ways in which the past is never far behind you in the
• 27:21
  South, You know, and I think part of that is a, a, a, a deep
• 27:28
  sense of like traditionalism that is an incredibly double
• 27:32
  edged sword. I, I don't know, I mean, so
• 27:38
  yeah, my, my, my job used to fly me out from Austin to Memphis
• 27:41
  every few months just I guess to make sure I still existed.
• 27:47
  And, you know, we would of course go and like see what
• 27:52
  Memphis had to offer and, you know, try the restaurants and
• 27:55
  see the sights and do all this thing.
• 27:57
  And one night I went out with some of my Co workers and, you
• 28:02
  know, we were on Beale Street. And Beale Street is just sort of
• 28:07
  like a perennially cordoned off, right?
• 28:09
  And people sort of the the permission.
• 28:13
  And I guess the expectation is that you will get, you know, a
• 28:18
  drink, a cocktail or like a, you know, an alcoholic slushie from
• 28:22
  somewhere and then just sort of wander the street in this crowd
• 28:25
  of people. And everyone's just sort of like
• 28:27
  partying and jovial, right? And so that was the environment
• 28:32
  that we participated in. And then as we were trying to,
• 28:36
  you know, like hail a cab, we thought it would be wise to walk
• 28:42
  a few blocks away from the hubbub, right?
• 28:45
  And then all of a sudden, we were right outside the hotel
• 28:50
  where Doctor King was shot. I mean, I was looking right at
• 28:55
  it just a couple blocks away. And that'll sober you up real
• 28:59
  quick. You know, it, it's, it's a hell
• 29:04
  of a thing. I had a friend who was married
• 29:08
  in Galveston. And like at the facility where
• 29:15
  he was married. Like, it was, it was, it was the
• 29:19
  building where like Juneteenth happened, right?
• 29:23
  Like we stood on that balcony and I don't know if you're
• 29:26
  familiar with Juneteenth, but basically.
• 29:29
  Why don't you tell our audience? Sure, sure, sure.
• 29:32
  So. Not everybody's as smart.
• 29:36
  Not everybody's as smart as me, Rachel.
• 29:40
  I know, and what a cross to bear for you, Becca.
• 29:42
  I know, it's so hard. You know, sort of when, when
• 29:47
  slavery was like nominally abolished, right, with some sort
• 29:52
  of glaring and critical exceptions.
• 29:54
  But like when slavery was abolished, basically like it
• 29:59
  took time for the word to spread and it took extra time for the
• 30:02
  word to spread because the, the people in power and the
• 30:06
  slaveholders and, and all of these people were like not
• 30:10
  spreading the word, right? Because it was in their interest
• 30:12
  not to. So, you know, the law has
• 30:15
  changed and human beings are still enslaved because because
• 30:23
  humanity is horrific. And, you know, as basically
• 30:27
  ultimately the government sends envoys into the South to like,
• 30:31
  announce that that this is no longer OK.
• 30:36
  And Juneteenth, like, celebrates the day that I guess, like, the
• 30:40
  last Courier stood on this, like, balcony in Galveston, TX,
• 30:44
  the far end, right? Like Gulf of Mexico is right
• 30:46
  there. And, you know, functionally,
• 30:49
  theoretically, like communicates to the last possible community.
• 30:54
  Like, hey, you know, we're done with this to the extent that we
• 31:00
  ever actually were. So, you know, like there, there
• 31:03
  are these places, there were civil War battlegrounds near the
• 31:09
  the town. I went to middle school and you
• 31:11
  know, you would go on, you know, these, these these school field
• 31:14
  trips and you know, they would talk about how to load a musket
• 31:18
  and they would make everything just like as kid friendly as
• 31:21
  they could, But like, it's all still right there, right.
• 31:25
  And then you, like, see this history and you have to
• 31:31
  reconcile it with the fact that the, you know, truck in front of
• 31:38
  your mom's car at the school pick up lane picking up her
• 31:41
  kids, like, has a Confederate flag on the back when like,
• 31:44
  you've seen all the things that that means.
• 31:48
  And so you're just sort of perennially conscious of it if
• 31:54
  you're the kind of person who gives a damn, right.
• 31:59
  And so, like in that context, I mean, I went to high school in
• 32:03
  Texarkana and there, there there was a movie, I think it was
• 32:08
  actually like AI think it was a slasher movie, actually kind of
• 32:12
  like unrelated to the racial issues.
• 32:14
  But the name of the movie is the town that dreaded sundown, which
• 32:20
  is, you know, I mean, that's an odd to, to a, a, a very
• 32:25
  specific, like extra legal form of like status quo enforcement,
• 32:31
  you know, And so like, as like that, that is part of my
• 32:41
  birthright, right. Like just that legacy of blood
• 32:45
  is part of what I was born into. This is getting real heavy for a
• 32:48
  Muppet podcast. Yeah, I was, you know, you know,
• 32:50
  it's boy, it's, you know, you know, lasso is a word that
• 32:55
  starts with the letter L No. But Rachel, This is why I wanted
• 32:59
  you on. This is why I wanted you on.
• 33:01
  Because, you know, what's interesting here is like.
• 33:06
  Yeah, the thing about the thing about Cowboys that becomes
• 33:11
  difficult is, you know, we all we all love the aesthetic of
• 33:17
  Cowboys, right? And you know, we're going to
• 33:21
  keep on dancing at the Pink Pony Club and all of these, all these
• 33:24
  different things. And and, you know, was I
• 33:28
  listening to Ke$ha's Yippee Ki Ye on loop to get ready for
• 33:32
  this? Absolutely.
• 33:34
  But but it's one of those things that it's very difficult to to
• 33:40
  talk about Cowboys without grappling with the, the reality
• 33:47
  of this situation and and this world, because this world, I
• 33:51
  mean, this part of American history shapes what American
• 33:55
  history looks what, what, what modern America looks like today.
• 34:01
  And we're not, you know, again, it's, it's not something that's
• 34:06
  that's fake and and fictional. And, you know, you were even
• 34:09
  telling me things that I didn't realize with like how the word
• 34:13
  cowboy, you know, is diminutive because it was something that
• 34:18
  was used as an insult to to black black cow.
• 34:22
  Herders, I mean, yeah. So like most, most cow hands
• 34:27
  were like black or, or or Latinae like and like and like,
• 34:34
  yeah, cow cowboy was sort of specifically at least what I
• 34:39
  have like been told, what I have read, what I have learned like
• 34:41
  was specifically sort of like this, this diminutive like
• 34:44
  insulting thing compared to being like a cow hand, right?
• 34:48
  Or like a ranch hand. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's,
• 34:53
  it's really interesting too, because there is the reality of
• 34:56
  that era, which like it's a fascinating era, right?
• 34:59
  Like, and, and a lot of the history of that era comes
• 35:03
  through my state, my hometown and, and towns that I have grown
• 35:09
  up in and, and places that I have loved.
• 35:13
  It's a fascinating time to be queer, right?
• 35:17
  Because if you are living life sort of pretending to be a woman
• 35:25
  in a wealthy, like Massachusetts family and you know that's not
• 35:29
  who you are, you can just like, pack a suitcase and hop on a
• 35:35
  train out West and you can go be the man that you know you're
• 35:38
  supposed to be. And no one will question you
• 35:40
  until you're autopsy, right? As long as you are good at
• 35:45
  whatever it is you say you're doing and people stay out of
• 35:49
  your hair. Like there are fascinating cases
• 35:53
  of like queer people and trans people leading full rich lives,
• 35:58
  getting married, right? Because they they were taking
• 36:02
  advantage of the relative lawlessness of this era and the
• 36:09
  fact that information does not travel like it does now.
• 36:13
  So like, there, there are interesting things.
• 36:16
  There are. There's a lot of cool stuff
• 36:17
  happening. But it feels like it all gets
• 36:22
  condensed in a weird way. Right where where the cowboy and
• 36:27
  the Wild West isn't about it isn't about queerness.
• 36:33
  I mean, it is and it isn't. We've we've all seen Brokeback
• 36:36
  Mountain. It is and it isn't actually
• 36:38
  haven't. Oh, you know, I haven't either.
• 36:40
  I was hoping that you wouldn't call me out on that.
• 36:46
  We'll we'll do a movie night at one point, but I've already I've
• 36:52
  already promised that I'm going to force you to do an Emmett
• 36:54
  Otter movie night at one point. But like it isn't necessarily
• 37:00
  about that and it isn't about the diversity of the cowboy
• 37:03
  experience. Cowboy sort of becomes this
• 37:06
  catch all for a sort of again, like white lawman, you know,
• 37:11
  with a, with a, with a 10 gallon hat and the lasso and a star and
• 37:16
  and boots and all of that. And and all the stuff that Rodeo
• 37:19
  Rosie has, right? Because Rodeo Rosie, Rodeo Rosie
• 37:24
  isn't about what it's like. You know, you brought up such an
• 37:28
  interesting thing too in in a discussion we were having over
• 37:31
  text where it's like Rodeo Rosie could be could be a character
• 37:38
  and, and I'd love for you to expand on this.
• 37:40
  Rodeo Rosie could be a character who deals with the idea that of
• 37:46
  like moving from a small town to a big city and trying to fit in
• 37:51
  and trying to get to learn that life is different here.
• 37:55
  And there's more different kinds of people.
• 37:57
  And we, we act differently and there's different, you know, be
• 38:01
  careful when you cross the street.
• 38:03
  And all of these different lessons from the big to the
• 38:06
  small that that you have to learn.
• 38:08
  Yeah, see, we didn't have to worry about that come because we
• 38:10
  don't have sidewalks at all. So you just but yeah, no, like
• 38:16
  it was, it was interesting. I mean, like when we when my
• 38:19
  wife and I graduated college, right.
• 38:20
  Like we we graduated college, we got married and we moved to
• 38:24
  Boston for her to go to grad school and like there, there
• 38:31
  were a lot of kinds of culture shock, right.
• 38:33
  Like, and one of them actually is that the racism was in some
• 38:37
  ways worse in Boston, or at least more overt, right?
• 38:40
  Because what I had grown up with was like horrible, but it was
• 38:44
  subtle in its way. And it was like very deeply
• 38:47
  ingrained. And I think I watched more white
• 38:52
  dudes just straight up throw slurs in two years in Boston,
• 38:56
  then like, the previous 20 in my various, like, suburbs and small
• 39:04
  towns and occasionally cities in Arkansas.
• 39:08
  So like, you know, that that piece was different.
• 39:13
  Yeah. No, like, the noise, the
• 39:16
  landscape, the air smells different.
• 39:19
  I had sort of spent my entire childhood actually being really
• 39:25
  ashamed of my accent because it's not in media like an accent
• 39:33
  for smart people, right? And I, I spent a lot of time
• 39:39
  sort of, you know, with like my moms like movies that she taped
• 39:43
  off of Turner Classic, like practicing the transatlantic
• 39:46
  accent, you know, and doing the sort of, you know, Jimmy Stewart
• 39:50
  thing. And, you know, voice voice
• 39:53
  training. Voice training years before you
• 39:55
  realized anything. I'm sure I don't know what you
• 39:59
  mean, darlin, but you know, like, and you know, that's the
• 40:07
  interesting thing too. Now actually when I did go to
• 40:09
  voice training, like I have come around on that so quickly.
• 40:15
  The the woman I did my first voice lesson with was from
• 40:18
  Australia. And all of her consonants were
• 40:21
  like very, very, like flat, very neutral.
• 40:23
  She was going for this very specific vibe.
• 40:26
  And I, and I told her I was like, actually, OK, I do want to
• 40:29
  keep my accent because this is part of my identity and this is
• 40:33
  part of who I am. And I've gotten almost as much
• 40:37
  for this depending on where I've lived as I have for being queer
• 40:40
  back home. And I want this to mark me,
• 40:45
  right? Like I want this to tell people
• 40:47
  who I am, which is part of why I type with it, especially when
• 40:50
  I'm tipsy. And Boston is kind of where that
• 40:55
  process unfolded in my mind because.
• 40:59
  You. You.
• 41:00
  Do get, you know, some expectations, you know, you, you
• 41:05
  do get people kind of underestimating you based on The
• 41:07
  Voice, based on the demeanor, based on the things you don't
• 41:10
  know. Even, you know, if you sort of,
• 41:15
  you know, blew all of your grad school tests out of the water
• 41:18
  and you're like, your wife is there to attend this prestigious
• 41:21
  university. Like it doesn't matter.
• 41:24
  And like, that is obviously not the worst kind of discrimination
• 41:27
  that people face or even that I faced, but it did make it did
• 41:35
  give me an inroad to seeing what rodeo Rosie could have been,
• 41:39
  right? Because it is hard to go from
• 41:44
  having like all the space in the world to like go camp or to go
• 41:49
  do whatever, to like being able to hear your neighbors, like
• 41:52
  fight or make out or whatever through like an apartment wall.
• 41:56
  You know, like it's hard when the air stops smelling like the
• 42:03
  river that you're used to, right?
• 42:04
  Like it's hard to look up at the night sky and not be able to see
• 42:11
  the stars. And like, obviously Rodeo Rosie
• 42:15
  should not be that forlorn about it, right?
• 42:17
  But you, you can have a version of that conversation because one
• 42:21
  of the things I always loved about Sesame Street is that like
• 42:25
  they do present kids with characters who are going through
• 42:29
  difficult changes and they talk about those changes and how to
• 42:32
  deal with them. And as a kid who moved around
• 42:35
  like every three years, every five years, like that would have
• 42:39
  been useful to me. And so like there was a story
• 42:45
  that they could have told there and instead it felt like they
• 42:49
  they couldn't find that way in or any other way in.
• 42:53
  And so we just sort of get like this weird, like, want to be
• 42:58
  sheriff. And here's what's so interesting
• 43:03
  to me. Like, you know, I asked you for
• 43:05
  your your opinion on on on Cowboys and you gave me this,
• 43:09
  this super, you know, again, like like you kind of recounted
• 43:12
  some of here, this super in depth thing.
• 43:15
  But like, as far as like Cowboys in media or whatever, I actually
• 43:20
  asked one of my tough pigs pals, Anthony Strand from the Move In
• 43:27
  Right Along podcast. I asked him because he loves old
• 43:31
  TV and old movies. And I was like, Anthony, it kind
• 43:34
  of feels like Cowboys were an older thing than rodeo Rosie,
• 43:39
  like cowboy movies and cowboy TV shows.
• 43:42
  And yeah, I I literally rodeo. Rosie first appears in 1974, and
• 43:48
  Anthony pointed out that the closest thing to a new Western
• 43:53
  hit in the 1970s. Care to guess what it was?
• 43:57
  Biggest Western show in the 1970s.
• 43:59
  I mean, Gunsmoke was well over. Yep, Gunsmoke ended in 1975, so
• 44:05
  technically it was still alive when When Rodeo Rosie debuts,
• 44:10
  but Dying Bonanza ends in 1973. The biggest show, The biggest,
• 44:15
  closest thing to a new Western hit in the 70s was Little House
• 44:19
  on the Prairie, which is not really a cowboy show.
• 44:23
  Yeah, no, like, and I was like, oh, what was John Wayne doing?
• 44:27
  And like, he died in 79, right? Like.
• 44:30
  Yeah, so Gunsmoke actually in 1974, it's the only like, the
• 44:37
  only top rated, like the highest rated Western show.
• 44:41
  And 1974 represents the year that it fell out of the top ten.
• 44:48
  It was #15 that year. So if Cowboys were popular and
• 44:54
  were something that kids loved, I don't think kids really loved
• 44:57
  them in 1974. Yeah.
• 45:01
  Well, see, and that's like, that's hard for me to say.
• 45:03
  Well, that's what I wanted is like, was it a bigger deal in
• 45:07
  the South? Because I've, I've always been a
• 45:09
  city girl, You know, I'm, I'm a. Yankee yeah, no, I mean like and
• 45:15
  it's hard for me to say because like my upbringing specifically
• 45:18
  like my my grandfather did describe me once in in my
• 45:23
  childhood as as a city boy after a sort of like horse incident
• 45:32
  where I I I did not fall off the horse, but someone did have to
• 45:35
  come sort of retrieve the horse and me and sort of make sure
• 45:40
  that that didn't happen. Right.
• 45:43
  So you know it's my grandfather was a like a subsistence farmer,
• 45:51
  right? Like that was that was the thing
• 45:53
  he was a dairy farmer and he had like, you know, a little garden
• 45:57
  patch, but that was mostly for him, right.
• 45:59
  Like that was the fun farming, you know, that, you know, and he
• 46:02
  had potatoes and watermelon and we'd get fresh corn and all
• 46:06
  that. And like, I think one of the
• 46:09
  things that I said when we were talking about this previously
• 46:14
  that like it isn't, isn't connected, right?
• 46:16
  But like, I knew where my food came from.
• 46:20
  But yeah, it's the the point is, the point is it's it's
• 46:24
  difficult. It's difficult.
• 46:25
  And obviously you're saying like this sort of of, of, of cowboy
• 46:29
  Western life was weirdly part of your life, but it certainly
• 46:34
  feels like it was a, it was a, a, a, a dying trope by this
• 46:39
  point. Oh yeah.
• 46:40
  Which makes it even stranger. And for those of you listening,
• 46:44
  Rodeo Rosie premieres in 1974, which is the same year that
• 46:50
  Marshall Grover, Grover's cowboy alter ego, premieres.
• 46:57
  So again, Sesame was like, we need Cowboys.
• 46:59
  We got we got 2 Cowboys this season. 1974 we got to bring in
• 47:04
  the Cowboys. And six years before Forgetful
• 47:07
  Jones, their most famous cowboy character would debut.
• 47:12
  And after Forgetful Jones, we get Forgetful Jones cowgirl
• 47:17
  girlfriend Clementine, who will play a role in one of the books
• 47:22
  we're going to start to talk about soon.
• 47:24
  Sesame loved Cowboys and it's so weird now.
• 47:29
  None of those other Cowboys were lassoing adults necks and, you
• 47:35
  know, stringing up Luis or anything.
• 47:38
  But it's so weird that just like we were all.
• 47:43
  In on Cowboys, I mean, see, and I, I don't know, because like I
• 47:50
  to my mind, there's there's like a part of it that makes sense
• 47:53
  because it's like, oh, you know, like kids are in a Cowboys.
• 47:55
  Kids go through a cowboy phase, right, Like do they see?
• 47:59
  I like, I don't like. I was like, oh, it's like
• 48:01
  dinosaurs, you know, Or like, do they?
• 48:05
  So, OK, so I want to talk about books because I want to address
• 48:11
  the question that or, or like the little debate we're having
• 48:13
  here, which is do kids have a cowboy phase?
• 48:18
  Because if we can agree that kids have a cowboy phase, then
• 48:21
  Rodeo Rosie sticking around so long makes sense.
• 48:24
  Because here's the thing about Rodeo Rosie.
• 48:27
  I said that she basically stops appearing on the show in 1976,
• 48:32
  but Rodeo Rosie doesn't stop appearing in books until 1992.
• 48:40
  I grew up knowing who Rodeo Rosie was.
• 48:45
  I can't tell you the first time I saw a clip of Rodeo Rosie, but
• 48:49
  I knew who Rodeo Rosie was. And I specifically knew who
• 48:54
  Rodeo Rosie was because of her appearance in the Sesame Street
• 48:58
  Bedtime Book, Specifically the story Betty Lou Lends a Hand,
• 49:04
  where we find out that Rodeo Rosie is the loudest person on
• 49:08
  Sesame Street and she tries to yell at a letter to get it to
• 49:14
  move. I reckon that makes sense to me,
• 49:17
  partner. And I knew thank you.
• 49:21
  And I knew Rodeo Rosie was the loudest person on Sesame Street.
• 49:26
  Could not tell you what she sounded like, but I was like,
• 49:29
  this is the thing about Rodeo Rosie.
• 49:31
  She's loud. I know that she stuck around for
• 49:35
  this long and specifically I actually want to jump ahead to
• 49:39
  one of her last appearances because you were saying
• 49:43
  everybody goes through a cowboy phase.
• 49:45
  And I want to talk about her biggest appearance in a book,
• 49:49
  which happens in 1992's I Want to Be a Cowboy, where Rodeo
• 49:56
  Rosie, Marshall Grover and Clementine and Marshall Grover
• 50:00
  is treated as like a separate character from Grover in this
• 50:03
  altogether, which was weird. I wasn't sure how that worked or
• 50:07
  if that was normal. That's not normal.
• 50:10
  I, I, it's not normal, but he's treated as a completely separate
• 50:14
  character. Normally it's just like like
• 50:16
  Grover just sort of has different jobs and like one of
• 50:19
  those jobs is cowboy normally is how it's portrayed here.
• 50:24
  It's like he introduced the speech.
• 50:33
  You know, in a way, Grover is more like Barbie because he can
• 50:36
  do anything. We we see this, we see this,
• 50:41
  this thing. And this was part of a series of
• 50:45
  books that were basically built around basically all of the jobs
• 50:50
  you could imagine a little kid would want.
• 50:52
  There was I want to be a ballet dancer.
• 50:54
  I want to be a doctor. I want to be a firefighter.
• 50:58
  I want to be president. I want to be a veterinarian.
• 51:02
  And then there's also I want to be a cowboy.
• 51:05
  And what's also interesting is all of these books have a
• 51:08
  different central character. Betty Lou wants to be president.
• 51:13
  Grover wants to be a firefighter, Prairie Dawn wants
• 51:17
  to be a ballet dancer, Big Bird wants or Bert wants to be a
• 51:21
  teacher, right. The one about Elmo, the most
• 51:26
  popular character, is I want to be a cowboy.
• 51:31
  So this really seems to be telling me that people wanted to
• 51:37
  be Cowboys and kids wanted to be Cowboys, but I have no
• 51:42
  experience with this. This is so alien to me and, and
• 51:46
  maybe it's because I'm a New Yorker.
• 51:49
  Maybe it's because I didn't like Cowboys because they felt too
• 51:52
  masculine to me. And I think it is important that
• 51:56
  it's Clementine and Rodeo Rosie who do most of the teaching in
• 51:59
  this. It's like girls can be Cowboys
• 52:01
  too, but do people want to be? Cowboys Rachel, help me out.
• 52:06
  Do people want that? I mean, I like like so it's like
• 52:10
  you, right? Like I I think the closest I
• 52:14
  maybe ever wanted to be a cowboy was like maybe Annie Oakley,
• 52:22
  right? Or like Lucille Ball in like 1
• 52:25
  of her old like western comedies.
• 52:27
  Which feels like that's what Rodeo Rosie is kind of going
• 52:30
  for, right? Like a like a real Annie Oakley,
• 52:33
  like. Lucille Ball was funny though,
• 52:35
  so I you know. Fair, I think.
• 52:40
  Really, I think what I wanted to be was like Helen Reddy's
• 52:43
  lighthouse keeper in Pete's Dragon, which I think was kind
• 52:46
  of like the similar like time period, but like a completely
• 52:52
  different vibe. I.
• 52:55
  Wanted to be a zookeeper. I I never ended my animal face.
• 52:59
  Well then it's a good thing you have a Muppet podcast.
• 53:03
  Not that much kind of woman. I got 2 podcasts and that's
• 53:09
  basically like a zoo. But I yeah.
• 53:14
  Anyway, the the point is you were saying about you wanted to
• 53:19
  be Helen ready. Yes, I love her cover of Blue
• 53:28
  from the Raggedy Ann musical. Have you listened to that?
• 53:31
  I have not, but I will seek it. Out is real good.
• 53:34
  She did perform it on The Muppet Show as well.
• 53:37
  Did she OK then I like I might have that episode laying around
• 53:40
  somewhere. And, and it's worth noting that
• 53:42
  written by Joe Raposo, because Joe Reposo did the music to the
• 53:46
  Raggedy Ann musical and also did the music to Sesame Street.
• 53:49
  But anyway, continue. I sent you my cover of Sing
• 53:53
  Right? You're gonna have to send it
• 53:54
  again. I don't know if I listened to
• 53:56
  it. I may have been at work at the
• 53:58
  time, hateful. I may have been at work at the
• 54:01
  time and then I forgot by the time I got home from work.
• 54:04
  There it was like done up in sort of like a Maria Takeuchi
• 54:07
  like city pop style and. I will post a link to it in the
• 54:12
  show notes if you send it to all of us.
• 54:15
  Shucks. OK, I can do that, but yeah.
• 54:19
  No, don't worry if it's not good enough for anyone else to hear.
• 54:22
  Thank you. I will just sing OK.
• 54:26
  Continue So did you want to be a cowboy?
• 54:31
  No, no, I didn't want to be a cowboy, but I did feel sort of
• 54:35
  like removed from my peer group for that and several other
• 54:41
  reasons, right. And I think when I was little
• 54:46
  and people would ask me like kindergarten, they were like,
• 54:48
  oh, what do you want to be like? What do you want to do when you
• 54:50
  grow up? And it was like, I want to have
• 54:52
  every job in the world and you. Wanted to be Barbie.
• 54:57
  I Oh my gosh, I did want to be Barbie, but like, I kind of did,
• 55:01
  right? Like, and at the time, I think
• 55:02
  the only jobs I was aware of was that like, you could have a
• 55:06
  store or like be a firefighter or like pastor a church because
• 55:13
  that was like what my father did.
• 55:15
  And I was like, I can do all that, you know, bring it on.
• 55:21
  And my career has actually almost been that weird.
• 55:27
  But no, like, cowboy wasn't really on the radar in any way.
• 55:33
  And I think like a lot of what I remember really as far as like
• 55:40
  cowboy media that I treasured was the like Roy Rogers Day
• 55:45
  Elevens episode of The Muppet Show.
• 55:48
  That's a good one. It is a good one.
• 55:51
  It is a good one. And, you know, like, I think
• 55:57
  those actors, like meant more to previous generations of my
• 56:00
  family than they meant to me, right?
• 56:02
  But like, that was that was one that was fun to watch with
• 56:05
  Granny, you know, was was Roy Rogers doing his thing?
• 56:10
  I guess I'm sort of underestimating the importance
• 56:14
  of how much of the things that we watched were things that our
• 56:18
  parents and grandparents liked, because I guess that could be a
• 56:23
  lot of people's exposure to cowboy stuff, especially once
• 56:26
  the VHS era started and stuff like, yeah.
• 56:31
  Because again, like, I don't know.
• 56:37
  The thing about Rodeo Rosie to take it back to our friend Rodeo
• 56:40
  Rosie is Rodeo Rosie's first book appearance is the Sesame
• 56:44
  Street Block Party, which is a coloring book and she had
• 56:50
  already stopped appearing on the show Sesame Street by the time
• 56:53
  she appeared in a book. OK.
• 56:57
  And like, I had these books, I didn't have dates, I didn't have
• 56:59
  contacts. So this is interesting to me.
• 57:01
  Yeah, so that's that's why I want to, I want to address some
• 57:04
  of this because I sent you a bunch of scans from the books,
• 57:07
  from different books. Her biggest appearance, like we
• 57:10
  said, was in this 1992 book where she teaches Elmo how to be
• 57:14
  a cowboy. We do get to see her on a cool
• 57:18
  motorcycle at that point. And I I feel like now I want to
• 57:22
  be Rodeo Rosie when I see that panel.
• 57:25
  And I think that's just because I'm a lesbian.
• 57:29
  But I was about to say, I think really what you want to be is
• 57:31
  like Quirky from Bound, but like with a leather.
• 57:35
  Vest I still haven't seen Bound and that's something else we
• 57:39
  have to fix. So anyway, wow.
• 57:42
  So, OK, well, we'll do a double feature.
• 57:44
  Amit Otters, jug band Christmas. Amit Otters, jug band Christmas.
• 57:48
  Yeah, I'm bound. But but other than that.
• 57:53
  So the biggest role that she has is in the book Tales of Sesame
• 57:57
  Gulch. And this is a fascinating book.
• 58:00
  It's from 1977 and it is a bunch of short Sesame Street stories
• 58:07
  that take place in the town of Sesame Gulch, which is
• 58:11
  ostensibly no lie and AU of Sesame Street.
• 58:17
  I noticed that like Mr. Hooper had a saloon and and I was a
• 58:22
  little floored to see one of the human characters in a book.
• 58:27
  It is weird, right? It is weird and in a in another
• 58:31
  section that's not usually done and in another section, like
• 58:34
  Luis is like working at like a a horseshoe, like shoeing horses,
• 58:42
  which again is weird. But like, yeah, it's literally
• 58:45
  like an AU where like Prairie Dawn is a pony Express driver
• 58:51
  and like, and like Harry Monster is a Stagecoach thief and, and
• 58:57
  Bert is the sheriff. Like it's, it's, it's this weird
• 59:01
  book and I can't, can't recommend reading it enough if
• 59:06
  you're a Sesame Street fan. Bert is type A enough to be a
• 59:11
  sheriff, but is he Butch enough? No.
• 59:15
  OK. Well, yeah.
• 59:18
  But in this, in this book, listen, I I didn't, I didn't
• 59:22
  become one of the internet's leading Sesame Street experts
• 59:27
  and like a queer community advocate, to not be able to
• 59:35
  confidently say that Bert is not Butch enough to be a be a
• 59:39
  sheriff. Well, I mean, I knew I was
• 59:41
  asking the right person, that's why I asked.
• 59:43
  So this is really interesting for a number of reasons, but the
• 59:47
  most interesting thing is this is the book where we get the
• 59:50
  most information about Rodeo Rosie.
• 59:54
  Now I guess the question is, is this true of Rodeo Rosie in
• 59:57
  general or just Rodeo Rosie in the AU?
• 1:00:01
  Right, so. But Ernie and Bert sing a
• 1:00:06
  campfire song called The Ballad of Rodeo Rosie where they
• 1:00:10
  recount all of the great things Rodeo Rosie does and is and, you
• 1:00:16
  know, Rodeo Rosie. What can we even say about Rodeo
• 1:00:21
  Rosie? Well.
• 1:00:23
  You can say that she's really a star.
• 1:00:25
  She's really a star. She's really a rose, sorry.
• 1:00:29
  She's really a rose. She's a rodeo star.
• 1:00:32
  And you know, an important thing that I know about Rodeo Rosie is
• 1:00:35
  that she's nice to her mother and her father and her sister
• 1:00:40
  and her brother. And we also see in this ballad
• 1:00:45
  that Rodeo Rosie wins prizes in the rodeo, which we can assume.
• 1:00:51
  And also, it seems that Rodeo Rosie is again in this ballad of
• 1:00:55
  Rodeo Rosie, obsessed with lassoing bad guys and bringing
• 1:01:01
  them to justice. Which she does a little more
• 1:01:03
  successfully here. And also so they say she's quick
• 1:01:06
  on the draw, which I know can be like metaphoric.
• 1:01:12
  It theoretically could refer to her, her lariat, but typically
• 1:01:18
  it it means, you know, she's a quick shot.
• 1:01:21
  So I have to know, like, has Rodeo Rosie like, ever killed a
• 1:01:26
  man? You know Bert doesn't sing about
• 1:01:29
  that. That's true.
• 1:01:31
  You know, even in this sort of like alternate, alternate
• 1:01:34
  timeline of Rodeo Rosie, there isn't much else to say about
• 1:01:39
  Rodeo Rosie besides that she lasso's bad guys.
• 1:01:43
  And yes, she does it successfully here.
• 1:01:45
  Yes. And I guess maybe the quick on
• 1:01:48
  the draw thing also feels like an Annie Oakley thing that maybe
• 1:01:52
  they were going for. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:56
  I don't know, but it was really interesting to me.
• 1:02:01
  It was really interesting to me that this is like a song for
• 1:02:05
  Rodeo Rosie but isn't ever performed.
• 1:02:11
  It's pretty interesting because Rodeo Rosie basically has no
• 1:02:15
  song other than that moment in the Thanksgiving parade we
• 1:02:18
  talked about. Any any other book appearances
• 1:02:23
  you thought were interesting? Because I feel like those are
• 1:02:26
  the big ones I wanted to mention.
• 1:02:30
  Yeah, I mean, I, I, it's. Interesting is a big word
• 1:02:33
  because, well. Yeah, and like, it's a very
• 1:02:35
  strong word to use about this character, right?
• 1:02:38
  Because that's the whole thing, is it?
• 1:02:41
  It feels like there gets to a point where her thing is just
• 1:02:43
  showing up riding a horse and saying that she's Rodeo Rosie,
• 1:02:49
  who were throwing a lasso and saying that she's Rodeo Rosie.
• 1:02:52
  And this is particularly confusing because I do want to
• 1:02:55
  briefly mention in 1974, the same year, a Sesame Street
• 1:03:00
  storybook, the Sesame Street ABC storybook, introduced a
• 1:03:03
  character named Lasso Louise who would show up in the Sesame
• 1:03:08
  Street dictionary alongside Rodeo Rosie.
• 1:03:11
  Like they're both in that book and they both love lassoing
• 1:03:14
  things and ship it. There isn't really much to say
• 1:03:19
  here. There really isn't.
• 1:03:20
  I guess there's some fun stuff in the Sesame Street Dictionary
• 1:03:23
  of her and bad Bart like, but fun is maybe a strong word here
• 1:03:29
  as well. So I think the most notable
• 1:03:33
  appearance in the books for me that I sort of called out to you
• 1:03:38
  was in the background of something else.
• 1:03:41
  It actually took me a minute to figure out why you even sent me
• 1:03:44
  those pages, and then I looked at the background.
• 1:03:49
  Yeah. So it's the book Fun with Sign
• 1:03:51
  Language, which has Linda Bove demonstrating sign language,
• 1:03:58
  different sign language, ASL words.
• 1:04:03
  And then it's like, how many things in this picture can you
• 1:04:05
  sign? And in the background of this
• 1:04:08
  one illustration of Sesame Street, tell me what Rodeo Rosie
• 1:04:13
  is up to. Rodeo Rosie is at the dentist
• 1:04:17
  getting her horrific teeth cleaned.
• 1:04:20
  Because that's one thing that we can use Rodeo Rosie for.
• 1:04:24
  She can do lasso stuff, she can ride a horse, and she's also the
• 1:04:27
  only Muppet with teeth. So there's another one the I Can
• 1:04:33
  Do It By Myself book, where one of the things that she can do by
• 1:04:37
  herself is she can brush her teeth and she's the Muppet
• 1:04:42
  demonstrating that. It's so upsetting and like, I
• 1:04:46
  get, I get that maybe Bert couldn't go to the dentist
• 1:04:48
  because he has no teeth, but like those teeth are so
• 1:04:51
  upsetting. Becca they're.
• 1:04:54
  Really upsetting. Let's let's remember that the
• 1:04:56
  teeth are really upsetting. Like no, but it's horrific.
• 1:05:00
  Like put sweetums in the dentist chair, leave the everything
• 1:05:05
  Muppets out of it. Like those teeth are so
• 1:05:08
  upsetting. I don't know.
• 1:05:11
  I do want to say obviously mostly performed by Jerry
• 1:05:14
  Nelson. I did not send this, but there
• 1:05:18
  were a couple of like books on tape where she's performed by
• 1:05:21
  Fran Brill doing a much more natural voice because Fran is a
• 1:05:29
  cisgender woman, Fran has a much more natural sort of women's
• 1:05:34
  voice, doing a more subtle Southern accent.
• 1:05:38
  I'll post a clip here. And folks at home are listening
• 1:05:41
  to to Rodeo Rosie from the great Sesame Street Pet Show right
• 1:05:46
  now. Lions.
• 1:05:48
  Can gallop so fast I know he's going to win the prize of the.
• 1:05:54
  Show. Wow, that was great, but other
• 1:05:57
  than that I don't know what what they were trying to do with
• 1:06:02
  Rodeo Rosie and why Rodeo Rosie stuck around this long.
• 1:06:07
  I truly don't have the answer to any of these questions.
• 1:06:11
  Yeah, and I you know, I think you started all of this with me
• 1:06:16
  by saying like, I want you to tell me if Rodeo Rosie is good
• 1:06:22
  and if we like her, do we like her?
• 1:06:25
  So I, I want to like her, like I said, I, I feel sort of a
• 1:06:30
  kinship with her, like with her southern ways and her country
• 1:06:37
  drawl and her like kind of fish out of water vibe, right?
• 1:06:41
  Like I am living in Europe right now and I just kind of wake up
• 1:06:46
  everyday and I'm like, what happened?
• 1:06:51
  I am from a farm, you know, like I'm own, I'm not really from,
• 1:06:57
  but you know, like. I wasn't going to correct you.
• 1:07:00
  Well, but like I there is there is something there that I relate
• 1:07:06
  to and I want to like rodeo Rosie.
• 1:07:08
  And like, obviously you don't have to dig into all the big
• 1:07:11
  complicated stuff, but it feels like a really obvious thing that
• 1:07:15
  kids go through and you could talk to them with this character
• 1:07:18
  and they just don't. And I guess for me, it's really
• 1:07:24
  interesting because you can clearly see them trying to
• 1:07:26
  figure out what to do with his character, like you said.
• 1:07:29
  And then they don't do much with her at all.
• 1:07:31
  And then they don't do anything with her.
• 1:07:33
  And like, from my perspective, the thing to do with her is
• 1:07:38
  extremely obvious, you know? Yeah, like, she's a transplant.
• 1:07:45
  And like, that makes sense. So like I, I, I don't like Rodeo
• 1:07:53
  Rosie, but I, I, I like the potential that she has.
• 1:07:58
  You know, Rachel, I feel like what you're highlighting here is
• 1:08:02
  kind of the essence of so many fandoms that I'm a part of
• 1:08:08
  because, you know, to say something that I've said on my
• 1:08:12
  other podcast. Here comes tomorrow with our
• 1:08:15
  mutual friend Rachel Josie Josephine Riesman.
• 1:08:21
  The best version of the X-Men is the version in your head.
• 1:08:27
  The best version of the X-Men is not a version of the X-Men on TV
• 1:08:32
  or or in a comic you've read. It's the version that you kind
• 1:08:36
  of make up as you read. And in a way, especially when
• 1:08:42
  dealing with these, these kind of forgotten underwritten
• 1:08:46
  Muppets, in a way, the best version of them is always going
• 1:08:52
  to be the version in your head as well.
• 1:08:56
  And, and, and I know that's how I feel about Betty Lou and folks
• 1:09:00
  at home know that I've talked a little bit about that and I'll
• 1:09:03
  be talking a little bit more about that next week.
• 1:09:07
  But it's so interesting to do this kind of, you know, wish
• 1:09:10
  casting and and thinking about it in this regard, because I
• 1:09:15
  feel like we're never really going to be satisfied with these
• 1:09:18
  kind of failed dead Muppets. And you see the potential.
• 1:09:24
  And one of the pieces of potential that I would do with
• 1:09:27
  Rodeo Rosie is I would remove her teeth.
• 1:09:32
  Well I I would make sure that the teeth are not there.
• 1:09:36
  I think when you say remove them that that sounds a little
• 1:09:41
  troubling. An episode.
• 1:09:44
  An episode where Rodeo Rosie learns about what happens.
• 1:09:49
  I, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't even know how to finish
• 1:09:56
  this. Joke.
• 1:09:56
  No, I I don't think you should. No, but I you know.
• 1:10:12
  Rodeo Rosie is really a rose, Rachel.
• 1:10:18
  You have hustled your last wrestler, Rosie.
• 1:10:21
  Now it's time for you to lose your back, husbands.
• 1:10:26
  Exactly. Kids need to learn that.
• 1:10:30
  You shouldn't have crossed bad, Bart.
• 1:10:33
  Yeah. No, I don't.
• 1:10:35
  I don't know. I know.
• 1:10:37
  Yeah. Like there, there, there are
• 1:10:41
  things there, there's potential there.
• 1:10:42
  And like that potential doesn't always get realized.
• 1:10:45
  And I, you know, I think it's less though.
• 1:10:49
  Like it reminds me of like almost I think I just said
• 1:10:54
  nothing but filler words for like a solid 60 seconds.
• 1:10:57
  You sure did. Don't worry too, you'll hear
• 1:11:06
  that. That was some filler words down
• 1:11:08
  there. I can't do it as well as Rachel.
• 1:11:16
  It it kind of started at a certain point in the books,
• 1:11:20
  especially when she was in the background getting her teeth
• 1:11:22
  cleaned. Reminded me of when AC Lister
• 1:11:27
  from like a comic book universe, right from a comic book universe
• 1:11:32
  would show up in like later, more serious media, right?
• 1:11:37
  Like Rodeo Rosie getting her teeth cleaned.
• 1:11:39
  Reminded me of the Wonder Twins showing up in like a 2000s
• 1:11:43
  Justice League series and getting killed off horribly.
• 1:11:47
  You know, she's getting her teeth cleaned because they want
• 1:11:50
  you to know that they understand that those teeth are upsetting,
• 1:11:54
  so they're going to draw attention to it.
• 1:11:58
  And you know, that's what you get for noticing at least that's
• 1:12:04
  that might not have been the intent, but that was definitely
• 1:12:07
  how it felt to me. Rachel, it's been such a
• 1:12:13
  pleasure. It's always a pleasure to talk
• 1:12:16
  to you, friend. Rachel, where can people find
• 1:12:19
  you online if you wish to be found?
• 1:12:22
  Right. If you don't have a place where
• 1:12:27
  you wish to be found, that's fine too.
• 1:12:29
  Fair. So my business website is still
• 1:12:33
  kind of a going concern and my last domain was under my last
• 1:12:41
  name. But you can find me on Blue Sky
• 1:12:45
  as Mom Friend 64 and I can give you the handle to put in there
• 1:12:53
  and wherever else. But yeah, if you need writing
• 1:12:56
  for your website or if you need music for your video game or
• 1:13:02
  even your podcast. Rachel, that sounds impossible.
• 1:13:07
  You've you've never done music for a podcast before?
• 1:13:10
  I have certainly never done music for an X-Men podcast
• 1:13:16
  starring 2 of my best trans friends focused on the Grant
• 1:13:21
  Morrison run of X-Men. Yeah, Rachel, Rachel does the
• 1:13:24
  theme song to to my other podcast.
• 1:13:28
  I do. It's true.
• 1:13:29
  And and I should say for folks listening at home, Rachel's blue
• 1:13:32
  sky is amazing. Rachel's blue sky is maybe not
• 1:13:37
  always clean. Yes, that is.
• 1:13:42
  That's fair. But you know, we're all
• 1:13:46
  grown-ups here, like rodeo, Rosie.
• 1:13:51
  Exactly, you know, and I, I think if I, if, when I'm not
• 1:13:54
  clean, I'm at least clever enough to make up for it.
• 1:13:57
  Oh, I, I love your stuff. Speaking of Rachel, you're a
• 1:14:04
  musician and, and, and a songwriter, as we mentioned, you
• 1:14:09
  know, earlier, as you just said, and you know, I was thinking
• 1:14:13
  about how there's never really been a song for Rodeo Rosie,
• 1:14:18
  except the ballad of Rodeo Rosie, which was just words.
• 1:14:22
  So I was really hoping before you go, would you would you be
• 1:14:27
  able to to, to perform the ballad of Rodeo Rosie for
• 1:14:32
  everybody at home. Becca, nothing would make me
• 1:14:35
  happier than performing the Ballad of Rodeo Rosie for, to
• 1:14:39
  our knowledge, the first time with actual music against the
• 1:14:46
  lyrics. All right, folks, the world
• 1:14:49
  premiere of The Ballad of Rodeo Rosie.
• 1:15:05
  Rodeo Rosie, as everyone knows, is really a really a really a
• 1:15:14
  rose. Rodeo Rosie will really go far
• 1:15:20
  because Rodeo Rosie is a rodeo star.
• 1:15:26
  Rudy Oh Rosie is nice to her mother, her father, her sister
• 1:15:34
  and also her brother. And when busting a Bronco down
• 1:15:40
  at the corral, Rudy oh Rosie says sorry old pal.
• 1:15:47
  Rudy Oh, Rosie is quick on the draw, but she's always on the
• 1:15:55
  right side of the law. Why the time that she captured
• 1:16:00
  old mean guy McPhail? She took him, She took him.
• 1:16:05
  She took him to jail. Rudio Rosie is strong for her
• 1:16:13
  size. At Rodeo's our Rosie wins every
• 1:16:18
  prize. Her gold cups and blue ribbons
• 1:16:21
  would fill 20 banks. But each time she wins, Rosie
• 1:16:27
  always says thanks. Rodeo Rosie is the pride of the
• 1:16:34
  West. Rodeo Rosie is really the best.
• 1:16:40
  And Rodeo Rosie, as everyone knows, is really a really a
• 1:16:48
  really a rode. And that was the world premiere
• 1:17:07
  of The Ballad of Rodeo Rosie right here on A Prairie Dawn
• 1:17:11
  Companion music and vocals by Rachel Garrett Steele, featuring
• 1:17:15
  additional instrumentation by Bobson Dugnut Junior with the
• 1:17:19
  original lyrics from Tales of Sesame Gulch by Ruth Anna Long.
• 1:17:25
  Thanks, Rachel. Do you have anything you want to
• 1:17:27
  add? Becca, Becca, they're hauling me
• 1:17:30
  away. I think Rachel just got pulled
• 1:17:31
  off of the stage by a giant lasso.
• 1:17:35
  So next time on a Prairie Dawn Companion, it's the season
• 1:17:39
  finale of this little podcast. We're checking in on Prairie and
• 1:17:43
  Betty once more as we wrap up the 1970s and preview what's
• 1:17:47
  coming next in season 2. I.
• 1:17:51
  See a bird flying in the sunset. How about your kids at?
• 1:17:54
  Home. What do you see?
• 1:17:58
  And hey, if you're enjoying this show, Please remember to rate
• 1:18:02
  and review it on Spotify or on your pod catcher of choice.
• 1:18:05
  Post to the Internet about it. Tell a friend, tell your horse,
• 1:18:09
  tell Becca Ho. OK, OK.
• 1:18:12
  I I got to go for a Prairie Dawn companion.
• 1:18:15
  This is Becca Petunia. Happy trails.
• 1:18:17
  I really. Am quite.
• 1:18:23
  Resolved A Prairie Dawn Companion is a production of
• 1:18:26
  toughpigs.com. It is written, produced, edited
• 1:18:30
  and hosted by Becca Petunia, an executive produced by the Tough
• 1:18:34
  Pigs Muppet Fan Podcast executive producer Joe Hennis.
• 1:18:39
  Thanks to Scott Hanson, Shane Keating, Tony Whitaker and the
• 1:18:43
  Whole Muppet Wiki team for helping me with research.
• 1:18:47
  The book St. Gang by Michael Davis was also
• 1:18:50
  indispensable. Thanks to Katie Lynn Miller,
• 1:18:53
  Michael Richardson and Eli Lee for help with script revisions.
• 1:18:58
  Follow Tough Pigs on social media.
• 1:19:01
  You can support us on Patreon or by buying a T-shirt on our tea
• 1:19:04
  public. Join the conversation on the
• 1:19:07
  Tough Pigs Discord. You can support a Prairie Dawn
• 1:19:11
  companion and lots of other podcasts too by giving Muppet
• 1:19:16
  fan podcasts with toughpigs.com five stars on your podcast
• 1:19:21
  reviewing app of choice. Do you enjoy that?
• 1:19:36
  Grover or that was terrific. Sure was.
• 1:19:38
  And you know what? What next time I will do the
• 1:19:41
  imagining and I will take you on a special exciting ride on
• 1:19:45
  Sesame Street. Oh, that's.
• 1:19:47
  Great Grover. On my tricycle.