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Breaking the Cycle: How Family Addiction Recovery Really Happens · Recovering Out Loud

0:01
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
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Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
0:08
addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
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If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
0:13
alcohol, please reach out for help.
0:16
Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
0:20
Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com.
0:26
You are no longer alone. Because I don't know about you,
0:45
but I was a lunatic. Present.
0:48
I always like tell people I was like a dumpster fire on a train,
0:52
like just barreling through everything.
0:55
So yeah, no. But it was it was nice to have
0:57
that conversation because her, her story is very much connected
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to mine. Right when I got clean and
1:02
sober, she decided to go out. So yeah, so that had a huge
1:07
effect on. To go out like and relapse.
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Well, she, she was, yeah, she was about 17, I want to say.
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And she, she started hitting the drugs when I decided to get off
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of them. And so, you know, the life that
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I lived now became her life. So that was really hard.
1:23
I had to learn how to lovingly detach.
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And a lot of things happened very quickly.
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Like she got into a really bad car accident and I, I was able
1:30
to show up for her, which is something I wouldn't have been
1:32
able to do before. And then a friend of hers
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actually went into a drug, drug induced seizure when I was three
1:39
months clean and sober in my basement.
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Yeah. So I got woken up to that and I
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sent my daughter to rehab. She lasted 4 days and was like,
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I want nothing to do with this. So she actually, we were in the
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car the other day and she's like, mom, I have to show you
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something. And I was like, what?
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And she pulls up her I am sober app and it's two years free of
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coping. Yeah.
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And she was like, I totally forgot and missed it.
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And I was like, I'm so. Yeah, no, you can.
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Sorry, I'm so fucking proud of you because I only have like 4
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months ahead of her. Wow.
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Yeah. So it was like a really like
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beautiful moment where like, you know, I got to see what I was
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like in a very brief period of time in my daughter and like the
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damage that that caused my family.
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So it was like a big wake up call to I'm not in control of
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anybody's healing. I did the damage.
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It's my responsibility to take that back and to to show them
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that I'm not going to live that way anymore.
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And I mean, you'd be remiss if you add that your recovery
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definitely played a part in that, right?
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Like you showing up every day. I'm picturing a world where, and
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I'm sure this exists out there where you have mom, dad in
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active addiction, children in active addiction.
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It's like just you're fueling each other, enabling all over
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the place, right? So what was that like watching
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her and like, how'd you get through that?
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It was really traumatizing to be honest.
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I, I think at first I was very selfish in the fact like how
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dare you, you know, here I am trying to better my life and now
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I have to watch you do this. And at first, like I had that
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very selfish, self-centered moment where I was like, why are
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you doing this to me? And then very quickly I got
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humbled and I was shown like, she's not doing it to you.
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She's suffering from her own pain.
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Like for me, when I was an active addiction, what I
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realized was I didn't want to. I couldn't see anything past my
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pain. I couldn't, you know, I loved my
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kids. I wanted to be there for them.
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There were all these things I wanted to be, but I couldn't
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because I was consumed by my pain.
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And that's exactly what happened to her.
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So I was able to kind of switch my perspective on that and
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understand that there is nothing I could do to save her.
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I have to allow her the space to have her experience, but I'm
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also in a position when she's ready, she knows where to go and
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I can be there to support her. And that's exactly what
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happened. So it was really hard to watch,
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but I'm all I got goosebumps. But I'm also really grateful
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that I was able to be there when she was ready.
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Ready. Yeah.
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And that's the key is like they always say in Helena.
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And it's like, I didn't 'cause it, I didn't.
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I can't control it. I didn't 'cause it and I can't
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cure it, right. So it's like I get parents all I
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talk to parents all the time in addiction because of my job.
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And they're like, what do I do? I don't know what to do.
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Like there's really there's no answer.
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There's nothing you can't can do, right.
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There's no playbook, there's no answer, there's no template to
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this. That's another reason why I
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really wanted to get start this podcast is because, you know,
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I've had parents reach out to me and be like, thanks, like, you
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know that that helps me, you know, and it's like, what do I
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do? Well, you, you said it exactly.
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It's like I can be there when they're ready, you know?
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And so let me ask you this, what does, you've probably learned a
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lot from that experience, right? But what does enabling versus
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support look like? Oh, such a fine line, right?
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Because like when somebody, I see this even as a like as a
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sponsor, as somebody in recovery.
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So to, to broaden this a little bit, when I first came in and I
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got to a point where I was able to share my experience with
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others, I was like, I'm going to save the world.
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That that was my thought process.
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What I came to realize quickly after that is I'm not able to
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save anybody. The only thing I have is my
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story and that I'm able to share, you know, I'm able to
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give that support. So I think the enabling comes in
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when we're constantly trying to swoop in save.
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Like if what I'm doing is because I don't want you to
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hurt, then I'm enabling you, right?
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Like if everything that I'm doing is fueled by my need to
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feel OK with what you're doing, then yeah, I'm enabling you.
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But I think what happened with me was I wanted to do that at
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1st and then I had to real. And I realized very quickly from
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my own recovery, even though it was very little at the time,
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there was absolutely nothing I was going to say or do that was
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going to make anything any better.
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She had to have that experience on her own.
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What I will say is there were many messages where that that
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were just I'm thinking of you, I love you and most of them are
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not responded to. And that was OK because I
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understood she needed to take that time on her own.
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But when she was ready, I was there.
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And, you know, keeping your feelings and emotions out of it
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is huge. And that's a really hard thing
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to do, especially coming from someone super emotional like
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myself. You know, you want to save, but
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the reality is, like, sometimes people have to fall on their
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own. Yeah, that's what I had to do.
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Yeah. Same.
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My parents, you know, helped me so much.
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They enabled me a lot. But then, yeah, they they learn
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from their mistakes and doing that and giving me money
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putting. A lot of people don't realize
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too, that enabling takes all sort of forms.
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Like this is going to sound very harsh, but I was talking to a
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guy, a dad on the phone today and I mentioned that like even
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just providing shelter is enabling.
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Because when my parents let me live in the house, I was a, you
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know, coming and going as I pleased and using my drugs as I
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pleased, right, and hiding them. And I still remember to this
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day, like I would put, you know, my, my coke in my waistband and
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I would try and sneak in the house.
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And the one night my dad caught me, I'll, I'll never forget it.
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It, it was like that was the first time I really cried out
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for help when I was 2310 years ago.
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And I remember he had been Long story short, he had been tipped
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off by my friend that I was really bad, you know, and I was
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using more than everyone else and I couldn't stop.
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And he had told my, my mom that I was coming home just after
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grabbing and I was drunk and whatever, I'm walking up the
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stairs. I'm thinking that I'm, you know,
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slick pulling it, you know, no one knows.
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And he comes in the room, breaks down the bathroom door and finds
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it, flushes it down the toilet like right in front of me.
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And I, I get goosebumps just thinking about that because I'll
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never forget that was the first time when I actually told the
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truth. And I yelled out and cried, like
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literally bawled my eyes out. And I said, I need that, I need
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that. Don't you understand?
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I need that. And my, my sister, it was the
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first time she ever heard like how bad it was.
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And so that was a pivotal moment for me, right?
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What? What do you think kept you in
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active addiction for so long? I think it was pain.
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Like honestly, I I grew up, I went through a lot of trauma and
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growing up I was never really taught what healthy love was.
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I think that's how I was constantly looking for like
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this, anything to fill this void that I had within me and I
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didn't want to feel any of the pain.
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I absolutely did not. So I kind of created like this
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shield of whoever I needed to be at the time.
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And when I the first time I tried drugs or like or any
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substance, to be honest, it was like I finally felt comfortable.
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It was like nothing bothered me anymore.
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I, I had no, there was no thought process on like, oh,
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this hurts or that hurts. It was just, yeah, this is it.
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I can do this, you know, perfect.
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I'm good. But I wish, you know, at the
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time somebody would have said, yeah, it feels good now, but
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like, it's going to take everything from you because it
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almost did. And I, I, but I'm also very
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grateful for that because if I, if I wasn't in the state I was
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in this time when I hit this bottom, and it's funny because
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this bottom, like, nothing crazy happened.
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It wasn't like they found me on the side of the road and I woke
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up in the hospital with all my clothes cut off 'cause that
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happened, you know, like it wasn't, you know, there was
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nothing. It was a higher.
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Bottom line, you're. Used to, yeah, it was nothing
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traumatic. All my kids were living at home,
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although they shouldn't have been 'cause it was basically a
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trap house. But I was dead inside, like dead
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inside. And I just the, the morning I
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decided that that was enough, like my moment of desperation, I
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was contemplating taking my life in the house where my, all of my
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children were at home. And I didn't even put two and
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two together until like 6 months ago.
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And I was like, whoa, that's insane.
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Like I didn't even think about like what would happen if, if
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and when one of them found me. Like that's how much pain I was
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in. And I just didn't want to feel
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it. And then I, you know, crawled
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back into recovery and here we are.
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So. What was that?
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What did that look like? Did you make a phone call?
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Did you reach? Out yeah.
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So I I used a 12 step program and I had tried it twice before,
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once like many years ago. I just, it wasn't for me at the
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time. And then the last time was a few
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years ago. I ended up with some charges and
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I was like, well, this is probably what everyone wants me
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to do. So I tried it and I actually got
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a sponsor that time. It lasted a whole 37 days.
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And you know that like mental blank spot they talk about
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something happened with my kids. I got into a fight at school and
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I was like, let's go for lunch. And now I'm thrown back.
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So it's like it was like I didn't even think about it.
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It just I went back out. I wasn't doing it for me though.
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I wasn't doing it because I wanted to get better.
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I was doing it to appease everybody.
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You're talking about the the milk and the whiskey thing?
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Pretty much, yeah. So you.
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So, yeah, for people that don't know, there's a passage in a
10:53
recovery literature where the they talk about a guy relapsing
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and he was clean and sober, hadn't had the thought in a
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while about using or drinking. And he shows up to a bar and
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he's having milk and all of a sudden a thought comes into his
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mind. It's funny.
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It's a funny story because a lot of people, probably a lot of
11:12
people can't relate to that exact situation.
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But I've had many situations where it's like, boop, this is a
11:19
good idea, let's do it. And for me, it was like, so to
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finish the story where he decides that his stomach is
11:25
bothering him and and a whiskey would go good with the milk.
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And that's how he relapsed just like that, right?
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He didn't tell anybody about it. He didn't call anyone.
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In my experience, it was, I thought I had ADHD too.
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We were talking about this before.
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And I was like, I can't focus that good at work.
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And it wasn't like a quick it was, it happened over time,
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slowly, but I kept having these thoughts of like, I know a guy
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that, and it usually started with knowing someone, being on
11:51
medication that it worked great for them, right?
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And I'm like everyone else, you know, it's gonna work for me,
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right? And I was like, I gotta fix my
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ADHD, right? And then that's how I relapsed.
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I had, you know, gotten back on the Adderall, the Vyvanse, and
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I'm getting it from a doctor and then I'm buying it on the
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Internet, fake stuff, whatever. And I'm using it to party now
12:09
and all these things. But it all started with that
12:11
moment where even though I can't really relate exactly to the
12:14
whiskey and milk thing, I'm like, why would anyone fucking
12:16
do that, right? But I'm like, I get it.
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I told that's the that's addiction.
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It's insidious, right? Cunning, baffling, powerful and
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patient. It's just waiting for that
12:24
moment. And if what I found today is
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there's that gap between thinking about doing something
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and doing something that as you stay sober longer, in my
12:33
experience, it gets greater and greater and greater where it's
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like I pause before I make rational, irrational decisions
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based on emotion. And so today, if, when that
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thought comes, because they do still come, right, the time gets
12:46
bigger between I call someone, I'm like, Hey, what do you, what
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do you think about this? Or hey, I'm, I'm having this
12:49
craving or whatever. So that was a long rant.
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There, No, no, it's a great story.
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It is a great story and I didn't relate to it at first either,
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but I mean, I can see it now. I can see it.
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And so this time was a lot different though.
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I, it was February 10th, 2023 and I was sitting in my bathroom
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and I just my will till it was done.
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I just couldn't do it anymore. I was in so much pain.
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I wasn't able to show up for anybody.
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I wasn't able to show up for myself.
13:14
I didn't know who I was anymore. I was literally the shell casing
13:17
of a human. There was nothing left.
13:19
And I reached out to a couple people and one in particular, I
13:24
actually every once in a while thank him for this.
13:26
I was mad at the time, but he said there's a meeting at 8:00
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go. I said I'm still like not good.
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He said just go, you know, like here it is, I'll meet you there.
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And I said OK, fine, if you'll meet me there, I'll go.
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He did not. And I yeah.
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And to be honest, I think he saved my like I think he's part
13:45
of what saved my life. Because my type of addict, if
13:50
you give me an inch, I'm taking everything from you.
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I'm not taking the mile. I'm taking everything like.
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I mean, I want, I will use an like I just anything like I that
14:00
I take, I just want it. And I and not because I, I was a
14:03
bad person, but because I was just, I was suffering.
14:06
So, you know, I didn't think about your suffering.
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I didn't think what it did to you.
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And so I had to walk back into those rooms, broken and bloody
14:16
and crawling and full of guilt and full of shame and just full
14:20
of all the ugliness by myself. And, And I did.
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And I remember this day like it was yesterday because I walked
14:29
in, had a temper tantrum. I think I kicked a chair.
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Like it was just, it was so bad. Like I dyed my hair red the
14:36
night before, like total meltdown.
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And yeah, and but the like, what I'm so grateful for in that
14:44
moment is like, I had to do it on my own.
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There was nobody holding my hand.
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There was nobody Co signing my bullshit.
14:50
It was me and that was it. So what are you going to do?
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And that was my choice. Like, if there was no more
14:56
running at that point, I didn't want to die.
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And I truly believe that I would not be sitting here right now
15:01
had he have. You know what I mean?
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I just don't think I would be. I would either be dead or alone
15:07
dying inside. I always say this, that if I had
15:12
to list all the people, places, institutions, counselors,
15:15
doctors, family members that helped me get to this point
15:18
today, I'd have a book like this big because I have a lot of
15:22
pivotal moments like that where I can think of one specific
15:24
person. You know, counselors, especially
15:26
my first treatment got getting into my first treatment, right?
15:29
All these people that even though I re may have relapsed or
15:33
whatever after the fact that they planted the seed, I still
15:36
that seat is still there. It doesn't go into like I I knew
15:39
where to go after that and all those moments lined up perfectly
15:43
to get me to where I am today. And everything happened the way
15:45
it was supposed to, right? It wasn't perfect by any means,
15:48
but I'm still alive and I'm sober today.
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So it was all it wasn't all for nothing.
15:54
Right. Well, I think too.
15:56
Like when I when I came in this time, I was riddled with shame.
16:02
Like way more than ever. I mean, I had slept through
16:06
Christmas like I just like I was, it had gotten so
16:11
significantly worse in the last while that like, like when I
16:16
think about it, I just, I never ever, ever want to feel that
16:19
again. Like I never want to feel that
16:22
again. Like when they talk about, you
16:23
know, spiritualities for religions for people who have,
16:28
who don't want to go to hell and, and spiritualities for
16:30
people who've lived it, like I was in my own personal hell.
16:34
And I, I never, ever want to go back to that.
16:36
Like in just when I think about the damage that I caused to my
16:40
family, like repeatedly and all the promises that I made that I
16:45
couldn't keep. And it's actually really funny.
16:47
My daughter was taking to her to an appointment a couple months
16:50
ago and she's like, we talk openly like my kid, I'm very
16:53
open with my kids. And she said, you know what was
16:56
crazy about when you were in active addiction?
16:58
And I was like, Oh, no, what? Oh, I'm scared.
17:03
And she was like, every time something really messed up
17:06
happened and she was referring to the day they found me and I
17:10
woke up in the hospital, all my clothes got off.
17:12
And she was like, you came home and it was just another Tuesday
17:15
to you. It was like nothing crazy
17:17
happened. And that was how I lived my
17:19
life. Like it didn't matter how
17:20
traumatic the event was or how messed up it was.
17:23
It was just another like, I couldn't be bothered.
17:26
I could not be bothered. I just continued on my
17:29
destruction path, yeah. Like a tornado right through the
17:32
house. That's interesting that she
17:35
remembers that, right? Your reaction to it.
17:37
Yeah, that's very interesting. I think we don't realize the
17:41
impact we have on people in our lives because and I hear this
17:45
every single time I talk to an addict that's contemplating like
17:50
whether to get help or not is, well, I'm not hurting anyone but
17:53
myself, right? And that was a huge one for me
17:56
that that kept me out there for a long time.
17:58
It's like I'm not do you know, it's just me That's that's,
18:00
that's hurting, right, nobody else.
18:02
And then come into recovery, you find out, you know, your wife's
18:05
been calling the morgue every night.
18:07
She's been calling police stations, She's been calling
18:09
funeral homes. And it's like, oh, my God, yeah.
18:12
Like, I'd be doing that too, right.
18:13
I was gone for so long, for so many days.
18:16
Fentanyl, like, there's all, you know, when I was doing coke,
18:18
like, yeah, how could you not do that, right?
18:21
But you don't. You're so stuck in it at the
18:23
time that you don't realize the impact the waves that you have
18:25
on other people. Tornado, like, like we said,
18:29
yeah. I think it's it's crazy, but you
18:34
know, it's I'm ultimately what am I trying to say when you so
18:43
how you talked about shame Yeah, a lot right.
18:45
That's this is where I was gonna go with this.
18:47
How do you, cuz that doesn't go away when you get sober at all.
18:49
If anything, it amplifies right. How do you, how did you and how
18:51
do you deal with that today? That's it's a tough one.
18:56
So I think a lot of my shame is surrounded.
19:00
So this is a hard question to answer, to be honest.
19:03
So, and there's different, different parts to it.
19:05
So it depends on which shame we're talking about.
19:08
If we're talking about the shame attached to me being a parent,
19:11
especially living in active addiction and all the mistakes
19:14
that I've made throughout my life, the one like the one big
19:18
thing is I have a very high expectation of what I should be
19:21
as a mother. And I had to do a lot of work on
19:24
that with my sponsor. And so when we were going
19:27
through our resentments and our fears, one of my big fears is
19:31
being a bad mom. And we, we worked on that.
19:36
So I, in that moment, I was able to like, really look at it and
19:39
be like, where did you get this absolutely ridiculous
19:42
expectation that nobody in this world can live up to?
19:45
Like, that's insane. And I was able to like, you
19:48
know, yeah, I am a human with my own experiences that I wasn't
19:52
able to work through. And, you know, I wish that I
19:55
didn't 'cause everything that I did to my children.
19:58
But here's the thing. And this is how I'm able to work
20:01
through that. Shame is, yes, addiction touches
20:05
everybody around you. They say it's a family disease.
20:07
Recovery is also the same, you know, so all my kids live at
20:12
home with me. My, you know, we're all very
20:14
close. We're not without, you know, our
20:17
own problems and our own issues, but we're all very close and.
20:21
You know, they've watched me recover so they get to see it
20:25
and it hasn't been pretty or without mess.
20:29
You know, there was a time when I was a very angry individual.
20:32
I wasn't able to handle my emotions.
20:34
You know, anger was like my go to until I realized anger was
20:37
the secondary emotion and it's blocking me from the pain that I
20:41
want that I don't like. I'm avoiding pain through it.
20:44
So they watched me become a very angry person and like they
20:46
watched all these things happen, but they also got space to heal
20:51
on their own. You know, I was able to give
20:53
them that space. And so a lot of that shame I was
20:57
I'm able to work through. I also had a lot of shame
21:01
attached to a lot of the abuse and traumas that I went through
21:05
throughout my life. A good friend of mine and I were
21:09
were talking and the one thing that she had said to me that
21:13
kind of blew my mind a little bit and I knew it.
21:16
But I think when somebody says something to you, sometimes it
21:18
like registers a little bit more.
21:20
And she was like, I think for a very long time you felt like you
21:24
deserved everything that you went through.
21:26
And I think she's absolutely correct, right?
21:29
So I would carry the shame of something somebody else had done
21:33
and I would carry it as my own, when really that's not mine to
21:36
carry that somebody else's to carry.
21:39
Because I all. But I think the shame is
21:41
attached to the fact that because of the pain I was in, I
21:44
became all the things that I never wanted to be.
21:46
Two other people. Do you know what I mean?
21:49
Yeah. So it was like, OK, well, I'm
21:52
not going to do this and then I would do that and then I'm not
21:54
going to be this and then I would be that, you know what I
21:57
mean? So but learning that when you
22:00
leave things and you don't work work on them or work through
22:04
them like this is what happens. I saw something on social media
22:07
yesterday that was like, when you avoid anything, it comes
22:10
back tenfold, right? And usually when you least
22:14
expect it or, or just in a public place sometimes, Oh my
22:18
God, when you're not ready. And it's just like, yeah, for
22:23
me, I. So I've done a lot of work, too,
22:26
in treatment with counselors and sponsors as well, over shame.
22:33
The steps are a great tool for me.
22:34
Yeah. They're not for everybody.
22:35
I realize that, but it's. They work for me.
22:37
Yeah. Same.
22:38
It's the only thing that works. Same.
22:40
Yeah. And continues to save my life.
22:41
Right. So there's a process in there
22:44
where you're writing down all these things, right?
22:46
And there's something that happens.
22:46
This is why I always say journal.
22:48
Journaling is so important to me.
22:49
It's because something happens when you put it on paper.
22:52
I heard, you know, Joe Rogan used to talk about journaling
22:54
and how it cleanses like your thoughts and, and offers up more
22:59
bandwidth for good thoughts to come in.
23:01
Right? You're purging.
23:02
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh, there it is.
23:05
It's not that powerful anymore because it's not circling around
23:07
in my head and like doing laps and like gaining, you know,
23:11
thoughts. I just thought of this now, but
23:12
thoughts in my head, I love, I love metaphors.
23:14
So thoughts in my head, it's like they're they're going
23:16
around a racetrack and someone's like fueling them up every stop,
23:19
right. And they just keep getting
23:20
faster and faster and worse and worse.
23:22
And then one day I'm smoking meth again.
23:24
You know, it's, it's not that, you know, extreme that quickly,
23:28
but you know, all bets are off when I don't follow some sort of
23:32
program of recovery. So for me, it's like I have a
23:35
lot of shame that comes up every once in a while now on all the
23:39
money my family spent on my recovery, right?
23:42
Whether it was treatment, counselling, life coaching,
23:46
whatever in the last 10 or 15 years of my life, that'll come
23:49
up every once. So the other day and the reason
23:51
this came up the other day, I was at my parents house and I
23:56
opened a book and a piece of paper fell out, right?
23:58
No thanks, right. I'm supposed to look at this
24:01
now. I always do that, right?
24:02
I'm like, oh great, what's this gonna be?
24:03
Right? And it was like a bank draft
24:05
from one of the treatment centers that had been and it was
24:08
like, you know, a significant amount of money.
24:11
And I just and I forgot about that treatment center and you
24:14
know, I hadn't thought about it in a while.
24:15
The again, I went to three and I'm all private and I'm grateful
24:19
that I went there and I was able to, you know, pay them off
24:23
slowly and surely. But I'm still paying it off.
24:25
But but my point was that I looked at it and I was like,
24:28
immediately, you piece of shit, how could you do this to them?
24:32
Like think about all the money and it's just like boom, boom,
24:34
boom, boom, right? And I had to like, I had to get
24:36
out of myself. I had to like go talk to
24:38
someone. I had to get out.
24:39
I went for a walk I think at the time because my phone is like
24:42
3000 lbs sometimes. Yep.
24:44
Oh, I know that. Yeah.
24:46
So just like get outside for a walk, right?
24:47
And that, and then eventually I'd, I'd tell people about it
24:50
and it gets better over time. But So what I do with that is
24:54
someone in my treatment center recently told me this.
24:57
I never used to like affirmations.
24:58
I hated them. I thought they were cheesy.
25:00
I do them every day now, every single day.
25:01
I wake up every morning and I'm like, today's going to be a
25:03
great day. I literally started saying that
25:05
and it, it's been working like I'm going to be a success.
25:08
I'm going to show up today, whatever that looks like, right?
25:09
And not financially, not just, I'm just going to be myself,
25:12
right? And she always used to say this
25:15
and I love it. She said, I have these
25:16
affirmations every morning where she says 3 things.
25:20
I forgive myself. I love myself, and I believe in
25:23
myself. And I find that sometimes when
25:25
all else fails, like if I can just go back to that, even
25:28
writing it out in my journal, it's like, yeah, I fucked up.
25:30
I made a lot of mistakes, right? I spent a lot of money, you
25:33
know, I spent a lot of money on treatment with my parents, but I
25:35
also spent a lot of money on drugs and alcohol, too, right?
25:38
Today, I can say that I'm not doing that.
25:40
Yeah. So.
25:41
I think there's something really beautiful in that though, like
25:44
you feel a lot of shame, but like if we change the narrative
25:47
on that and like change it to your parents, like look at how
25:50
much they really did care, right?
25:52
And I think sometimes when we're stuck in in self like that, like
25:55
that, it's so hard for us to see the other side And yeah, it but
26:01
it's a beautiful thing. Like, you know, I and I see it
26:05
all the like, I didn't have family that had supported me
26:07
through it and I didn't go to treatment.
26:10
I didn't go to detox. I ended up with pause because of
26:13
it, but that's fine. You end up with what?
26:16
Post acute with. Yeah, yeah.
26:18
Post acute withdrawal. Terrible I.
26:20
Know it took me a while to get over that too.
26:22
Yeah, but you know, like I, I think that's beautiful.
26:25
I but I think on the other side of that one, when I get
26:30
resentful that I didn't have like all these, you know, my
26:33
family kind of, you know, coming, chasing down my door
26:36
door or any of that stuff. I remember that like I have this
26:40
beautiful family that I've made in recovery, you know what I
26:43
mean? So there were strange perfect
26:45
strangers like there to pick me up when I needed it.
26:48
But it's all changing narrative for me.
26:50
Like before I was always like, why me?
26:53
Well, why not me? No, really.
26:55
Yeah. Like why should I be immune to
26:57
all the hardships of the world? Like what is that?
27:00
Right. I love it.
27:02
Yeah, so. But I like, I love that they
27:05
were so supportive. Like that's an amazing thing to
27:07
have. Yeah, it's a, it's a good point
27:09
and thank you for bringing that up because recovery does offer
27:12
me that. Yeah, from a high level view, if
27:14
I had to sum up recovery, you know, I would say let go.
27:17
Like that's a big one. Like let go that that could be
27:20
summed up in 2 words. And I didn't make that up.
27:22
Sandy BI believe made that up who's a a speaker but let go and
27:29
like, yeah, it's it's a beautiful thing that that we're
27:32
in. But if I could sum it up in
27:33
another way too, is all recovery does to me for for me.
27:37
Sorry for me is it it lets me shift perspective in all
27:41
situations of my life. You know, whether it's someone a
27:44
sponsee sponsor someone in recovery, your family members.
27:48
Hey, why don't you look at it this way, right.
27:51
And you're like, Oh yeah, I never thought of that, so I
27:54
appreciate. That yeah, and to call myself
27:55
out like I, I live a, a pretty spiritual life these days.
28:00
I do. But like I can't be spiritual
28:02
with everybody. Like I, there are parts of my
28:05
life where I struggle with that and I think that's like
28:07
important to note too, because again, that shame creeps in
28:10
like, oh, I wish I didn't behave that way 'cause now I don't have
28:13
a problem with drugs or alcohol. Now I got a problem with my
28:16
behavior, right? Like I'm like, but the
28:21
difference is like I catch those things a lot quicker now and
28:25
again. It's the change in perspective
28:27
and like. I almost just lost it at a lady
28:30
at the gas station over there. So it's funny because, you know,
28:34
there was a long time where people were talking about Elon
28:37
Musk creating this chip thing. And bear with me for a second
28:41
here, this I'm going to relate spec where it's like a microchip
28:44
where people could read each other's thoughts.
28:46
And I was always like, yeah, like, I hope that never happens.
28:49
Because if someone could read what I'm thinking, I got them
28:51
fucked. I'm so screwed.
28:53
Present, yeah. So I was standing in line at the
28:55
gas station and one of my pet peeves.
28:56
I have a few of them, but one of my pet peeves is the person that
29:00
does the lottery tickets at the front when there's like a whole
29:02
line of the gas station and then they're asking questions and
29:05
this and that. I'm like, I gotta go, don't you?
29:07
You know, And then it all goes back to the the director, right?
29:11
I am the, I want to be the director.
29:13
Like you need to follow my script.
29:15
You need to listen to me. If everybody just played along
29:18
with my parts, my script, the world would be a better place.
29:23
Right. And I, I feel like the control
29:29
part though, is so hard, like in especially like I've been on my
29:34
own for quite some time. So like as a parent and as a
29:38
human, like I left home and I think it was like 15 years old.
29:41
And so the control piece is really hard for me.
29:44
Like I used to gain this false sense of security and I had to
29:48
do that on my own and I was never actually safe.
29:50
So now when things feel out of control to me, like I really had
29:53
to work on like let it go. And it's still one of those
29:57
things where like I'm starting to OK, I'd catch myself
30:01
sometimes I'm like, why isn't this?
30:02
Nope, God has a different clock than me or whatever you believe
30:05
in the universe, the Teresa outside whatever.
30:08
For me, I, I call it God because it's easy, but he doesn't run on
30:11
my, he doesn't run on my clock at all.
30:14
And we fight about it sometimes. But you know, yeah, control was
30:18
hard for. Me.
30:19
That's a good way to put it. Yeah.
30:21
I get what I need today, not what I want.
30:24
And then I invariably find out that it was what I wanted the
30:29
whole time, right? If that makes sense.
30:31
I get what I need today. It's not on my time though.
30:33
So somebody had said to me quite some time ago, you know, I'd be
30:37
like, why is this bad thing happening to me?
30:40
You know, and I would place judgements on whatever was
30:42
happening in my life. This is so, if I'm being honest,
30:44
the very beginning of my recovery.
30:46
Well, actually pretty much my whole recovery has been a
30:49
dumpster fire. Like it's been really hard,
30:50
right? It's like 1 traumatic thing
30:52
after another. And but what happened was she
30:55
was like, maybe instead of placing judgment on what's
30:59
happening in your life, you just look at it as an experience
31:03
because I was like, this is terrible or this is amazing.
31:05
And then it would turn out to be the opposite.
31:07
So like what I'm really, really, really understanding, but also
31:11
seeing now in my recovery is whatever happens and whether I
31:16
think it's good or bad, I really have no idea because the worst
31:20
possible thing that happens might be the best in the long
31:23
run for me. I just don't know it yet.
31:26
So if I look at things as an experience rather than oh, this
31:29
is terrible, why is this happening?
31:30
Or oh, this is the best thing, yay, and then turns out to be
31:34
the worst thing. So just trying to like move
31:36
through the experience, whatever it.
31:37
Is that's a great point? This is like, this is bad or
31:41
good in my mind right now, right?
31:44
Like that, right this second. It's, it's not.
31:47
And we don't really know what, what, what the outcome is going
31:51
to be because we can't control the outcomes.
31:53
Yeah. I want to talk about
31:57
spirituality a little bit more than faith because I think
31:59
that's important and we we bring it up here quite a bit.
32:01
But what does faith look like to you today on a daily basis?
32:05
Today it's a lot different than it was.
32:08
That was a tough one for me. It was really tough because I
32:11
truly believed that I did not believe in God.
32:13
And then I came to or spirituality, like faith,
32:16
anything. And then I came to realize that
32:18
if you hate something, you believe in it.
32:22
So like I absolutely did, but it took a really long time for me
32:27
to get to where I am. So like at first I was like, I
32:32
just, I can't get on this, this God spirituality train.
32:35
I can't do it. And someone was like, just be
32:38
open and willing. Like it doesn't have to be, you
32:40
know, Jesus or like whatever. It doesn't have to be what
32:43
everyone else thinks. Like, just allow yourself to be
32:46
open to the idea of something greater than you.
32:50
And so I did. And then I would go to meetings
32:52
and I'd be struggling. And then all of a sudden
32:53
everyone would be talking about the things that I'm struggling
32:56
with. Yeah.
32:56
And like, it would became too much to be a coincidence.
32:58
And then it became numbers because I'm a weirdo.
33:00
And then. And then it started to really
33:03
shift. Where?
33:04
So the beginning of my recovery, I relied very heavily on human
33:07
aid. I needed my sponsor to tell me
33:10
which foot to put my shoe on. Like I I just, I called her for
33:13
everything. And then something happened
33:16
where she was removed from my life very quickly and I had a
33:21
bottom in recovery and I started to shift from human aid to the
33:26
spiritual program. And, you know, today, it really
33:31
looks like, I don't know why this is happening, but I trust
33:35
you, you know, so I, I truly believe that everything that
33:40
I've gone through in my life has gotten me to where I am.
33:43
And although I may not have deserved some of those things,
33:45
they absolutely created the human that I am today.
33:48
And it gives me the opportunity to share that with other people,
33:51
which I think is beautiful. Like there's purpose in that.
33:54
And whatever happens going forward there, there is a reason
33:59
for it. And I have to just trust that.
34:01
So I think that's where my faith lies today.
34:05
And I mean, I do get up. I talk to God a lot normally
34:10
it's like rambling. I didn't know how to pray at the
34:12
beginning. I literally prayed like this.
34:15
Hey, man, are you anybody there? Like, I just, I didn't know how.
34:21
And eventually, you know, now it becomes like more of a
34:24
conversation where like if I'm really struggling, like crying
34:27
was really hard for me. I don't like vulnerability.
34:31
I felt like it made me look weak.
34:33
And now like I'll be driving in my car with tears streaming down
34:36
my face. Like, I don't know what you're
34:37
doing right now, but like, I trust you, you know?
34:42
So that's how it's really shifted for me.
34:45
I really believe that, like, me being here today was not me.
34:50
Like, you know, I very much could have ended my life in that
34:53
day. And something inside of me said
34:55
there has to be more than this. And that was not me talking
34:57
because I didn't talk like that at the time.
34:59
So that had to be something greater than myself.
35:02
I have goosebumps thinking about it because it's so true.
35:04
Like that's that's, you know, spiritual experiences or a term
35:07
that you often hear. Yes, and that was a spiritual
35:09
experience for sure, where it's like, I don't know what happened
35:12
for me, my spiritual experience. I've had many.
35:15
Yep. I didn't realize it at the time.
35:16
Again, you understand it. You know, life is lived forward
35:19
and understood in reverse. Yes, someone said once to me, my
35:23
last bottom was at a hotel. I was getting kicked out.
35:26
I had enough drugs on me going into like I gave them to my wife
35:30
before I went into rehab, but I had enough drugs to go probably
35:32
another week, right. And that's not me like giving
35:36
that up. I something and I was just there
35:38
was something in my head that said give up your drugs and go
35:41
to rehab like you have no other. I mean, I had a lot of choices,
35:46
don't get me wrong, but I didn't to your point.
35:48
You mentioned this earlier is like it was harder in my mind
35:52
for me to keep facing that demon over and over again than it was
35:55
to just let someone drive me into treatment again.
35:58
You know what I mean? And I had that moment for a long
36:00
time. It wasn't though.
36:01
For a long time, it was harder to get someone to just simply
36:04
drive me into treatment than it was to stay out there and use.
36:08
But it was like, and again, that's I spent many weeks
36:11
fighting that until one day it was like, boom, something popped
36:15
in my head. There's a small window of
36:16
willingness. And then I spent the next four
36:18
days detoxing in my apartment. And I don't know what happened,
36:22
but I gave up my drugs that day and I was done right.
36:25
It's like you come face to face with the shadow finally, like
36:28
face to face with it. And like, I don't, I didn't
36:31
understand it at the time, but it was like this is it like what
36:34
are you going to do? Yeah.
36:37
What does it say? We have two options.
36:38
To go on to the bitter end, using and drinking until we die,
36:43
or to end up in jails and institutions.
36:45
Or a lot of us do, We're alone. A lot of us do end up in those
36:50
positions, right? I think that's why this is so
36:52
important for me. Like why I'm so in the middle of
36:56
her like why I'm in the middle of my own recovery is because
36:58
like I see it all the time now, right?
37:00
Like recovery is going to save less people than addiction is
37:04
going to take. So like, if if you can continue
37:06
to do this and we can continue to try and like alleviate some
37:10
of the stigma. Like not everyone's going to
37:12
understand, you know, people hate things they don't
37:14
understand. That's why it's such a harsh
37:15
stigma attached to it. But if we can keep talking about
37:18
it and keep sharing our experiences, then maybe other
37:21
people who really think they can't do it might have that
37:24
small little inkling that they can.
37:26
And I think that's so important. Do you think that it'll ever
37:31
outweigh that it'll ever turn the other way around?
37:34
I hope so, but I don't know. And the reason I say that is
37:38
because I I'm an observer and what I've observed is, and this
37:44
is just my own personal opinion, so don't come for me if if you
37:47
think I'm wrong, OK? But yeah, cancelled.
37:51
I think people are, are terrified of their, of dealing
37:56
with their pain. You know, I've watched people
37:57
come in and I've watched them go back out because that pain
38:00
consumes them again. And trying something new is so
38:03
much more terrifying than living in that pain or sorry, yeah,
38:06
then dealing with that pain. So I think it like it takes a
38:10
lot of courage and it takes a lot of work, takes a lot of
38:13
willingness. Like it takes a lot to make
38:16
those changes and it's so much. And for some it's easy, like,
38:20
and it was for me too. It was easier for me to just go
38:22
back, you know, to not face these things.
38:25
Like, my recovery's been extremely painful, but it's also
38:28
been full of of the most beautiful blessings.
38:32
Like, not without pain, but that pain I think is very hard for
38:35
some people to face. And without pain, you wouldn't
38:39
experience the high highs, right?
38:40
It's like I I wouldn't appreciate a sunset if I hadn't
38:44
seen a million cloudy days. I used to hate the sun, you
38:47
know, like, you know, like birds are chirping.
38:50
The sun's out. Rude.
38:52
I am busy. Yeah.
38:54
Like you know what I mean? I'm not done yet.
38:56
Yeah, like the wind would piss me off, like everything, you
38:59
know, And now, like those are some of the, like the sunset,
39:03
the waves crashing. Like these are the things that I
39:05
like, I love, you know, there's something really healing about
39:08
the water and like being able to have a moment where I'm actually
39:12
able to watch the sunset and not be thinking about, well, I got
39:16
to get back to my car 'cause I need to use, you know what I.
39:18
Mean not thinking about yesterday.
39:19
Yeah, who I heard earlier why I need to cover this pain up.
39:24
Yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah.
39:25
So you mentioned that you had some bottoms, like in recovery.
39:29
Yeah. How did you get through those?
39:32
And yeah, I don't really know either.
39:36
I don't know how I've gotten through them.
39:38
So I I like what you said about trusting.
39:40
Right? Faith being trust.
39:42
Yeah. I don't know why this is
39:43
happening, but I know that the outcome is gonna be what it's
39:47
going to be, right? It's not going to be good or
39:48
bad, but ultimately it's better if I stay in recovery then go
39:52
back out. So can you talk about like a
39:54
little bit about hardships and. Yeah, absolutely.
39:58
So I think for me, I had no trust when I came in like at
40:04
all. I think a lot like I think
40:06
that's normal for a lot of us. I don't want to speak for anyone
40:09
else but in my experience trust was non existent for me.
40:15
Like non existent. However, and I also did not get
40:19
along with women at all for the most part.
40:22
Like women and I just we didn't. I didn't.
40:24
Recovery or? Like pre recovery, yeah.
40:27
Like just I grew up with women hating my guts, which was fine.
40:32
I didn't really like them either.
40:33
So. But when I got into recovery,
40:36
all of a sudden I was surrounded by all these really strong women
40:40
and like women who, you know, weren't there to tear me down,
40:44
women who were there to pick me up.
40:46
And so I think my trust started there, you know, when I was able
40:50
to like, and I, I think it goes back to like childhood stuff,
40:54
you know, like I had a really abusive mother.
40:56
And so the trust there with women was already broken.
40:59
And now there's these women and I have to, I have to trust them
41:02
because they're the ones that are showing me where I got to
41:03
go. And so that kind of opened the
41:06
door to the trust thing. And I think that helped a lot
41:11
with when things happened in my life, like really negative
41:14
things, because I was able to like call this group of really
41:20
strong women who would not Co sign any of my bullshit.
41:22
They would tell me the truth, they would support me, you know,
41:25
they'd let me talk about my problem.
41:27
But what's the solution attached to that?
41:28
We're not seeing in the problem. Yeah, 'cause like if you let me
41:31
live in the in the problem, I'm going like I'm going to end up
41:34
going back out eventually. I don't want to do that.
41:37
I want to talk about it for a minute though, 'cause I'm in
41:39
pain. But now tell me like, tell me
41:41
the truth. So and, and that built a lot of
41:44
trust and I think that's how I've gotten through everything.
41:48
It's like I do have these people in my corner that I can rely on
41:52
and I, I'm able to ask for help now where before I was never
41:56
able to ask for help. I was just this ultra
41:57
independent or seemingly super independent person who didn't
42:02
need anything from anyone. And really, like, you can't do
42:06
this alone. So I think that's kind of like a
42:10
big pivotal moment. I also had a moment in recovery.
42:13
I think it was about 18 months clean and sober.
42:16
And I was in a relationship, you know, we had used together and
42:20
we met an active addiction. And then I got clean and sober
42:23
and he didn't. And, you know, I blamed him for
42:26
a lot of things for a long time. But the more recovery I got, the
42:29
more I could see why he acted the way he did.
42:32
But I wasn't able to necessarily change my behavior at the time.
42:36
And I went through this bottom and recovery where I was just
42:39
like, so angry and sad and I didn't know how to manage
42:41
anything. And I was driving my car and I'm
42:43
crying and screaming. Like if somebody saw me, they
42:46
would have probably called 911. Like, somebody come get her.
42:49
She's not OK. And I think that's where my
42:52
faith really shifted and where I got this trusting moment because
42:57
I put my phone on do not disturb when I got home.
42:59
And I'm just crying and crying. And like, this lasted for hours.
43:03
And then all of a sudden it stopped.
43:05
Like I was just sitting there like begging God like please,
43:07
like fucking help me. Like I'm dying here in recovery.
43:12
And oh God, I'm just thinking about it.
43:15
And it was like if I could visualize it, it was like
43:19
something just grabbed me and like squished me and it was like
43:23
everything's. And I stopped crying
43:24
immediately. Like, I mean, ugly, snotty cry.
43:28
And just immediately it just, and from that moment, I think
43:32
that's where my faith really started to grow.
43:34
It was like, I don't need to know the answers.
43:38
I don't need to know if everything's going to be OK like
43:42
it is. I have to just trust that.
43:44
But I think there's a lot of power in going through those
43:47
really tough times because that's how we learn.
43:50
Like I I shared my story once at a treatment center and I was
43:52
talking about how I was addicted to suffering.
43:56
I was like, I would, I will suffer through anything.
43:59
That is my superpower. I can do it.
44:02
But like, do I want to suffer? No.
44:05
Do I want to feel pain? Yeah, I can go through pain.
44:08
That's cool. I don't want to suffer anymore.
44:10
I don't want to be addicted to that chaos.
44:12
And one of the women said, how do you know if you're suffering
44:15
or you're in pain? And I was like, oh shit, that's
44:17
a good question. Because I do different.
44:18
Things they are. And I did.
44:20
I said give me a minute. And I was like sitting there
44:22
like shit, how do you know? And, and so for me, if I'm
44:26
comfortable in my pain, I'm suffering.
44:29
If I am uncomfortable in my pain, that is pain.
44:32
There's growth on the other side of that.
44:34
But if I'm sitting there comfortably in my pain and I'm
44:37
in self pity and self loathing, I am not growing.
44:40
There is no growth attached to that.
44:42
I am literally feeding the devil right now.
44:44
That is what I'm doing. You know, I'm feeding my demons.
44:48
So, yeah, I've been through a lot of of hardship in recovery,
44:52
but that hardship has been the best thing for me because
44:55
there's so much growth attached to that.
44:57
And then too, like you get to a point where you're like, if I
44:59
can get through that, Jesus, I can get through anything.
45:02
I say that about, I say that about I called my sponsor one
45:05
day and I was like, guess what happened?
45:06
And I told her and I forget what it was.
45:08
And she was like, the next time somebody says to me, I can't do
45:11
this, I'm just going to tell them to call you, 'cause she's
45:12
like, I swear to God, you've been through like every possible
45:15
thing that you could go through in recovery.
45:18
And but I'm grateful for that. Yeah, isn't it funny that you
45:20
can't remember what? That I can't remember what it
45:22
was 'cause it. Wasn't that bad, no.
45:23
But at the time I'm like, Oh my God, this is terrible.
45:26
My life's over. And then I'm like, what happened
45:29
last week? I don't even know.
45:31
It's it's crazy. We do this thing where we, we
45:35
walk around like with movie projectors projecting our movie
45:39
onto the world, right? And somebody comes in, they're
45:41
like, it's not that bad, dude. Like I've been through worse.
45:44
I, I've been through that and got through it.
45:46
Whether it's financial, whether it's death, right?
45:49
Grieving, There's a lot of bad shit that can happen in life,
45:52
you know, abuse, right? And people have gone through it.
45:56
They're going through it right now.
45:57
They're, you know, I had a woman here that got through sex
46:00
trafficking and she's sober now. And like, her story was insane.
46:04
I couldn't relate to half the shit, but I could relate to all
46:06
the feelings and I could relate to wanting love and I could
46:09
relate to codependence and like if she can get through that and
46:13
like, you know what I mean? It's and we're all it's not to
46:15
say that her trauma is worse than anyone.
46:18
Trauma's subjective, right? Your trauma or my trauma.
46:22
I'll say it this way. My trauma might be your Tuesday
46:24
afternoon. You know what I mean?
46:25
So I think that's important to note and it's something that I,
46:27
I share a lot. If if I'm sharing my story is
46:29
like, my story is not gonna look like yours.
46:32
And whether it's seemingly worse or seemingly better than your
46:35
story, remember that like everybody's pain is relevant.
46:38
Like it's, it is everybody's and it's it's relative to you.
46:42
So whatever I feel and whatever I went through, whatever you
46:46
feel and whatever you went through, the feelings of the
46:48
same story is different. I think that's really important.
46:52
Absolutely. Did you, so you mentioned drugs
46:54
a lot and did you struggle with alcohol as well or was that kind
46:58
of? Alcohol was probably like the
47:00
worst for me. Like I was I used heavy drugs
47:04
when I was younger. I took like a very long hiatus
47:07
and started again, like later in life after my last son and it or
47:13
just before I got pregnant with my last son.
47:16
And it almost took me out. Like it was like I didn't miss a
47:20
day. Yeah.
47:21
I hear this a lot. The reason I ask you that, I
47:22
hear this a lot, where people are coming in and they're like,
47:24
yeah, yeah, I'm a drug addict, Check.
47:26
And I was like this too, alcohol, but alcohol was never
47:28
my problem. What do you say to those people
47:30
when they say that? It's not my place, so for my for
47:34
me it anything like it doesn't matter what it is.
47:39
If I'm using something to fill the hole my ego dug, I have a
47:42
problem. Like anything that's numbing my
47:45
feelings, I have a problem with. I am an addict through and
47:47
through. It doesn't matter what it is, I
47:48
will use people, I will use places, I will use things.
47:50
Whatever it takes to fill that void, I will.
47:53
I will do it. Period.
47:56
So like, I was absolutely an alcoholic.
47:58
It took me a bit to come to that because it's so socially
48:01
acceptable, right? But like every time I put
48:04
alcohol in my body, I can't stop.
48:06
And every time I put any substance, I can't stop.
48:08
I was the same with the relationships.
48:10
I can't stop. So you know, that's what it is
48:14
for me. So I can't.
48:17
Yeah, that's that's my opinion on.
48:19
It, no, I, it's true. And I, you know, the reason I
48:21
bring it up is because it's a pretty common thing where people
48:23
are able to accept. I, I go back to my treatment
48:26
center every so often when I'm able to, and we do an aftercare
48:30
program. And there was a guy that was
48:32
sitting there and was like, yeah, I like, I, I check I'm an
48:35
addict for sure. But I think I can still drink.
48:37
Like I, I think I still got this right.
48:38
And I definitely was like that when I first came out.
48:41
I heard it someone say in Utah one time when I was there for
48:43
treatment, the same shit, different shovel, you know, And
48:46
I love it. It is like I use outside things
48:48
to change my insides. I've done it with gambling.
48:50
I've done it with anything, all sorts of relationships, like you
48:54
said, all sorts of things. For me, though, when I start
48:58
drinking, I just immediately want drugs, right?
49:02
So it was like when I said, and when I said that to him, he was
49:04
like, yeah, yeah, like me too, right.
49:06
And that was a simple enough to kind of bridge the gap there.
49:10
And I can't remember a time where I can remember a time
49:12
where I maybe had a glass of wine.
49:14
This was a long time ago, but at some point in the future I was
49:17
grabbing cocaine and it's like. I think it's like the the shift
49:22
like my brain shift too, right? Like if I were to make the
49:25
conscious decision today to pick up a drink, before I even get to
49:30
that drink, I'm ruining everybody's life.
49:32
That's that's the reality of the type of addict alcoholic I am.
49:36
I don't need to actually have the substance in my body.
49:38
I just need to have that conscious choice that that's the
49:41
way I'm going to live my life because once I start living in
49:44
my active addiction self, I literally destroy everything.
49:48
Yeah, and all the behaviors, all the behaviors, all the thought
49:51
patterns come with it, all the poor me.
49:54
And that's the plan thought about.
49:55
That right. And like, that's, that's what's
49:57
really like really big for me today is like, I really thought
50:03
drugs and alcohol were my problem and they weren't, they
50:06
were my solution. They, they're actually what kept
50:08
me alive for a bit, if I'm being honest.
50:10
Like, yes, they almost took my life, but they also saved me
50:12
from the pain I didn't want to feel.
50:15
But what I really, really, really realized through doing
50:19
work in recovery is like, that was not my problem.
50:23
My problem was me. It was the things I was
50:26
avoiding, the pain I didn't want to face, you know, it was all of
50:30
those things. And because of those things, I
50:32
ended up hurting so many people, so many people.
50:36
And that is not the life I want to Live Today.
50:39
Yeah. It's exhausting.
50:40
It's so exhausting. And it's filled with shame and
50:42
guilt. And again, like you mentioned
50:45
before, who did I hurt? What?
50:46
Who do I have to make an apology to?
50:47
And this sorry's and right. Yeah.
50:50
And some people aren't coming back.
50:52
Yeah. Like I that's a.
50:52
Good point too. Yeah, so I explained sometimes,
50:55
like the way I see it is like there's these scales and, and on
51:00
one side you have people's love for you and on the other side
51:03
they, you have your, their fear of you reoffending.
51:06
And the more we lie and the more we hurt and the more pain we
51:09
cause, their fear of us reoffending just goes up and up
51:11
and up. And then we get decide to make
51:13
this, we decide to get into recovery and like change our
51:16
lives. That fear of us reoffending
51:18
doesn't come down right away. And for some people, it's never
51:20
coming down. It's not that they don't love
51:22
us, it's just that their fear of us reoffending is so much
51:25
greater than their love for. And the trust is just gone.
51:28
And I mean, I'm not gonna force anybody back into my life.
51:31
If your life is better without me in it, then it should
51:36
probably stay that way. Like I I take no offense to that
51:39
anymore. Yeah.
51:40
I and again, I have no control over it anyways and at the
51:43
minute I try to control that like you mentioned the
51:45
beginning, everything goes up yeah, because control is our
51:49
biggest enemy it. Really is.
51:52
I just want everyone to live my way, right?
51:55
Beautiful, amazing. Let's end with this because I
51:57
always end with this. But if you could say something
52:00
to someone struggling in active alcoholism or addiction right
52:03
now, what would you say? That's a good question.
52:09
I don't know cuz there's nothing anyone could have said to me.
52:11
I what I will say is like I truly believe that I was
52:16
incapable of change and I did not believe anybody was capable
52:19
of change. I thought that's just the way
52:20
people are. That's it.
52:22
Until I changed, until I saw the other side, I was incapable of
52:26
seeing that it was possible. And now I do believe that
52:30
anybody can change. I do believe that it is possible
52:33
and it is possible for anybody. But you have to, you have to
52:36
take that first step. Nobody can take it for you.
52:39
I love it. And there's a lot of help out
52:41
there, too. There's so much help.
52:43
Yeah. Yeah, I love it.
52:45
Yeah. To your point, it's like I can
52:46
watch a million recovery videos, but until I make that first step
52:49
and it it's right, it's nobody's coming to save you.
52:52
Nobody. Like it sounds harsh, but it's
52:53
true. I've had that experience. 1000%.
52:55
You know, my parents could do all the support financially and
52:58
emotionally and bringing me and what?
53:00
But I had to get in the car. I had to stay at the treatment
53:04
center. I had to do the work.
53:05
Like it's all these things that line up together, right?
53:09
Thank you so much, Candace, for coming down.
53:11
I appreciate you. I had so much fun today.
53:12
Thanks, So nervous. You did great, thanks.
53:15
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53:20
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
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53:26
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