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Treasure Planet: The Unsung Heroes Behind Jim Hawkins · Systematic Geekology

• 1:14
  Who inspired Jim Hawkins to explore Treasure Planet?
• 1:17
  We're going to be asking this question a lot more in today's episode.
• 1:19
  This is Make Geekology.
• 1:20
  We are the Priesthood Geeks.
• 1:21
  I'm your host, Christian Ashley.
• 1:22
  If you.
• 1:23
  I don't know where they're going in sequence, but if you listen to the episode that Kevin and I did on Mom Pocket, this is the same day, so things have not improved.
• 1:31
  But you know what?
• 1:32
  I'm here with two wonderful fellows, one of which worked especially hard to get here because we don't pay him.
• 1:38
  And the other job that pays him doesn't really like him that much, but they love him.
• 1:42
  I'm just messing with him.
• 1:43
  How's it going, tj?
• 1:44
  Wonderful.
• 1:44
  They hate me.
• 1:45
  Just so we're clear.
• 1:47
  They can't stand me.
• 1:49
  Perfect.
• 1:50
  And we're also joined today by my eternal abuse victim.
• 1:53
  How's it going, John Eardley?
• 1:55
  It is going somewhere.
• 1:58
  I'm not entirely sure where.
• 1:59
  I think it's rock bottom.
• 2:00
  Like I think I got on the wrong bus like in that spongebob episode.
• 2:03
  And it's going straight down.
• 2:06
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:07
  There's only one place to go from there.
• 2:09
  Yeah, rock.
• 2:10
  I see actually here it's going to be a rough day.
• 2:15
  But you know what?
• 2:16
  We're here, we're going to talk about a film we all love.
• 2:19
  So hopefully that'll cheer us up a little bit more.
• 2:21
  I know TJ is way more peppy than he would.
• 2:24
  You would assume him to be, but I think it's because we're discussing the film we're discussing right here and now.
• 2:29
  So I'm going to give him this option real quick.
• 2:31
  Tj, what is Treasure Planet?
• 2:34
  Treasure Planet is if you ask a certain group of people, I would call them most people, at least most people with this opinion are people that I would consider to be people.
• 2:48
  If you're following what I'm meaning here.
• 2:51
  It is the best adaptation of the classic novel Treasure Island.
• 2:55
  It is set in space in like this cool science fiction fantasy just world that they created for this movie.
• 3:05
  And it's just like a super fun sci fi twist.
• 3:08
  On Treasure island, they change a few things.
• 3:10
  It's not like a one to one, but it is truly phenomenal.
• 3:14
  And if you don't know what Treasure island is, that's your fault.
• 3:19
  One of the classics for a reason.
• 3:22
  So, gentlemen, what is our history with the movie in question?
• 3:27
  I love Treasure Planet.
• 3:28
  It was screened, I would say screened in our daycare quite a bit when I was younger, probably because of me.
• 3:37
  But I can't say for sure, but I just loved it right off the jump.
• 3:42
  I've always been interested in space pirates have always been super cool.
• 3:46
  Combining both of them, you know, it got me hooked.
• 3:50
  And then when Disney plus came out, Treasure Planet's the only reason that I paid for it.
• 3:56
  I watched Treasure Planet, I think, every day for, like, two weeks, and then I watched it, like, a couple times a week for a long time, and now I watch it at least once a month still.
• 4:08
  I love Treasure Planet.
• 4:10
  I think it's one of the best movies ever made, in my opinion.
• 4:13
  It has its issues, it has its flaws.
• 4:16
  I don't care.
• 4:17
  Yeah, flaws don't make a film that's great bad.
• 4:20
  It's just.
• 4:21
  You notice it.
• 4:22
  It's fine.
• 4:22
  It doesn't mean it's not a tin.
• 4:23
  Yeah, go ahead.
• 4:24
  John deserves it.
• 4:25
  Honestly, I saw it in theaters more than once.
• 4:29
  That and Atlantis were, like, my two favorite of the Disney animated movies to come out during that era.
• 4:35
  And it got a lot of play time.
• 4:37
  It's just a gorgeous, stunning, animated.
• 4:41
  Almost like the way that they do the ships and was just such a cinematic masterpiece for.
• 4:49
  For it's timeless and it.
• 4:51
  And I didn't even know it was a, you know, an adaptation of Treasure island, you know, until much later in life when I had, you know, a lot of book reading and stuff under my belt, and I was
• 5:05
  like, oh, I didn't even know that.
• 5:07
  I feel like that's something I should have known when I was a kid.
• 5:09
  But, you know, I was just like, oh, you know, new Disney film, and it's really cool with, like, pirates and.
• 5:15
  Stuff in space, but it.
• 5:17
  Yeah, it's a beautiful film.
• 5:20
  I love it.
• 5:21
  Love the characters, love the animation, love the.
• 5:24
  The action and the twists.
• 5:26
  Yeah, it is just unbelievably stunning most of the time.
• 5:30
  Yeah, I probably said it on the last time we did this, but I watched this film in the theaters as well when it came out.
• 5:37
  You know, family's always been big Disney people, and I fell in love with it instantly.
• 5:42
  Now I had the fortune, one can say the providence.
• 5:46
  I would actually say to have read Treasure island first but also have seen Muppet Treasure Island.
• 5:52
  You know, we can have an ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny, but later on, whether, you know, which film is better.
• 5:57
  Second.
• 5:57
  That's the second best.
• 5:58
  Rest in Peace, Tim Curry.
• 6:00
  Phenomenal performance.
• 6:02
  But that.
• 6:03
  That is the second.
• 6:04
  The last time.
• 6:05
  The last time I watched Treasure Planet, I did immediately watch Muppets Treasure island right after.
• 6:11
  So, yeah, it's there.
• 6:14
  Yeah.
• 6:14
  It's just one of those films that I think has aged extremely well, as far as, you know, the story being told, the characters involved.
• 6:22
  Once again, as TJ said, there are some flaws in the film.
• 6:24
  It doesn't make it bad.
• 6:25
  It just means that there's no such thing as a perfect form of media out there because they're created by imperfect people.
• 6:30
  So as part of this Is Part of Our Faces Behind Us series, I neglected to mention that earlier because once again, sick.
• 6:37
  So, gentlemen, would you help me describe who is Jim Hawkins and why does he matter?
• 6:42
  James Pleiades Hawkins, you mean.
• 6:44
  Oh, James Pleiades Hawkins.
• 6:45
  How could I say anything differently?
• 6:47
  Right, Right.
• 6:48
  Well, he is our protagonist.
• 6:51
  He matters because he's the main character.
• 6:52
  That's all you really need to know.
• 6:55
  But he is the bastard son of Leland Hawkins and he just kind of gets swept up in his own adventure.
• 7:06
  He's like a little miscreant.
• 7:07
  He is just a little ne' er do well.
• 7:11
  And in his formative years, was influenced by pirate stories, which also super underrated.
• 7:19
  Part of the book is like the.
• 7:20
  The Hollow movie is like the Hollow book, like in the intro.
• 7:24
  That's so cool.
• 7:25
  Like, I want that to exist.
• 7:27
  That's awesome.
• 7:28
  Like being able to breathe in space.
• 7:29
  That's whatever.
• 7:31
  Take it or leave it.
• 7:32
  Yeah, but like, you know, holographic book.
• 7:34
  Come on, John.
• 7:36
  I was gonna say he's kind of like your plucky, angsty teenager character who you're almost automatically endeared to because you're like, oh, look at that little rebel.
• 7:48
  Ain't he cute?
• 7:49
  And.
• 7:50
  But he's gonna get swept off into a big adventure after, you know, the.
• 7:53
  After he gets in trouble with the law.
• 7:55
  Yeah.
• 7:55
  You know, everybody establishes that he's kind of like the underdog character.
• 7:59
  Yeah.
• 7:59
  And that he's edgy.
• 8:01
  But you've got, you know, the interesting plot that happens once.
• 8:05
  Once the pirate.
• 8:06
  The real pirates get involved.
• 8:08
  Yeah.
• 8:08
  He is textbook early 2000s angsty teenager.
• 8:13
  Yeah.
• 8:14
  I mean, if you know, to put another film that's, you know, made around the same time.
• 8:20
  Well, about two years before I remember correctly, you know, you're Titan ae.
• 8:23
  You got your Kale Tucker kind of character.
• 8:26
  There's some similarities between them.
• 8:27
  Also a really good movie, I'd agree.
• 8:30
  Rough and tumble they've had, you know, not necessarily the darkest past ever.
• 8:34
  Well, Kale's a little more Earth Dies, but that's.
• 8:36
  We're not trying to compare that and Treasure Planet, even though I just did that, so that's on me.
• 8:41
  Once again, sick.
• 8:43
  But Jim is someone who the world doesn't seem like it's going to work out for him.
• 8:47
  Like, single mother has a desire to go to the stars.
• 8:52
  He's got some people he's friendly with, but like, all he can see is probably he's going to stick to where he's at.
• 8:57
  And then the events of the movie happen.
• 8:59
  So which, speaking of, like, without Jim, how does our story progress?
• 9:03
  Or could our story progress?
• 9:05
  I mean, it could.
• 9:08
  It would be a very different type of adventure or things because the dude kind of shows up at the kind of space motel to.
• 9:18
  And shares his message with, I guess, the first living being he encounters.
• 9:23
  But because, you know, Dr.
• 9:26
  Doppler was there and Jim's mom was there and there was a lot of other people, you know, who there.
• 9:31
  I mean, who.
• 9:33
  It's hard to say what would have happened with it, but it could have been, you know, who knows?
• 9:38
  Dr.
• 9:38
  Doppler might have done something.
• 9:40
  Yeah.
• 9:41
  If he was the one who discovered him.
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:43
  I think Doppler had the potential to figure out how the map works.
• 9:49
  But realistically, what I think would have happened without Jim in the story, let's say Jim goes with Leland and leaves Sarah to run the space tavern, as it were.
• 10:01
  In that scenario, I think Sarah just dies in that scene.
• 10:05
  Like Long John Silver chases Billy Bones into the tavern.
• 10:10
  They burn it down, they get the map, and then the movie would just be about Long John Silver trying to find Treasure Planet, which I think would still be a good movie.
• 10:18
  Any movie made in deep canvas like Treasure Planet would be a good movie at the very least to look at.
• 10:25
  Yeah, this is definitely one of those things.
• 10:27
  Like our protagonist here, if Jim does not exist, we're not going to have the same movie, obviously.
• 10:32
  And more than likely I agree with tj they're probably not going to make it.
• 10:37
  You know, let's assume they are.
• 10:38
  The soon.
• 10:39
  It's a really happy Disney film and, you know, Jim's just not there.
• 10:41
  And they still do it.
• 10:42
  Okay.
• 10:42
  Where they get the ship ready and everything and they're taken over by, you know, John Silver because he has no Jim to help humanize him.
• 10:51
  He's still going to be himself.
• 10:52
  So probably our main cast is dead, maybe even John too, depending on what he does on Treasure Planet proper.
• 11:01
  When we learn about the trap and everything, it's probably one of those films that ends on a bit of a downer.
• 11:05
  Like the pursuit of Greed kills everyone.
• 11:08
  The end.
• 11:08
  Yeah, I thought you're talking about me for a second.
• 11:10
  Yeah.
• 11:11
  John Earnly our job.
• 11:13
  Well, yeah, as much as I love killing John, this is.
• 11:15
  This is not the scenario.
• 11:17
  So in this case, one of the things we always ask here on the faces behind us is, would you rather be the mentor or the influencer when it comes to this film?
• 11:25
  I don't know.
• 11:25
  I feel like we should ask later.
• 11:27
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 11:28
  I feel like it'll skip.
• 11:29
  For people who haven't watched it, I think it'll make a lot more sense because for one, if.
• 11:34
  So, if someone's never seen Treasure Planet right now, they know that Long John Silver is super evil and maybe got humanized.
• 11:41
  That's all they know.
• 13:30
  Okay, yeah, you know what?
• 13:31
  You caught me in a sick time.
• 13:33
  I don't care.
• 11:45
  So let's actually get into the.
• 13:35
  The mentors, teachers, friends, family, all the big shebang there.
• 13:39
  And of course, as mentioned earlier, we have Jim's parents, Sarah and Leland Hawkins.
• 13:43
  What can we say about them?
• 13:46
  Not much about Leland.
• 13:48
  I'll do Leland if you want to do Sarah.
• 13:50
  Sad backstory, but more significant than most people think.
• 13:55
  So we don't get much of Leland.
• 13:57
  We pretty much just get Jim chasing him out of his life.
• 14:02
  Like Leland gets on the ship and sails away.
• 14:06
  But the implication is that Jim's love of space and, you know, ship faring ness is because of Leland.
• 14:15
  He gets that from his dad because Sara shows no inclination towards it at all.
• 14:20
  So he's more like his dad than he would probably like to be.
• 14:24
  It's not necessarily something he wrestles with at all, even a little bit, but it's there like that, that's present in.
• 14:30
  The background,.
• 14:32
  Which after you watch Treasure planet for the 300th time, you're kind of like, oh, man, that's awful.
• 14:37
  He's.
• 14:39
  He could end up like Leland, but by the end of the movie, we know he won't.
• 14:45
  So that's.
• 14:45
  That's really all we get, is see a Jim.
• 14:49
  Bye, Sarah.
• 14:50
  I'm off to space forever.
• 14:52
  Off to get space cigarettes and milk.
• 14:54
  Yeah, crazy.
• 15:00
  Hi, John.
• 15:01
  I was gonna say you don't get a whole lot of, like the story between the two, but I guess something didn't work out between the mom and the dad.
• 15:08
  And through.
• 15:09
  Even in the short little backstory you have before the story pops off, you kind of get the idea that she's kind of a hands off mom and she's kind of like trying to watch the business and run the
• 15:19
  business and Jim's kind of there.
• 15:21
  Yeah.
• 15:22
  From the supplementary material that's been released for this film, I believe one of the directors explained that Leland was one of those people who was fine being with his woman, but as soon as it came to actually being
• 15:34
  a family man, couldn't live that life.
• 15:36
  So he split as soon as he could.
• 15:39
  And, of course, leaving abandonment issues in both, you know, Sarah and Jim.
• 15:44
  Sarah herself is a very strong woman in the fact that, you know, once again, single mother doing what's best for her son, like, trying to watch out for him at that.
• 15:51
  At the same time, Jim is being a little rebellious and she doesn't know what to do with him.
• 15:55
  And this presents, like, the perfect opportunity for Jim to get a little more structure in his life after finding the map.
• 16:02
  That way he can be on a cruise somewhere.
• 16:04
  It's like, okay, you want to go out in the space where you're going to go out with people that are going to take care of you?
• 16:08
  At least as far as she knows.
• 16:10
  Doesn't know about the pirates, but, you know, she.
• 16:12
  She does what she can with very limited funds, very limited information.
• 16:16
  So I'd rather like her.
• 16:18
  Yeah, she doesn't get enough credit.
• 16:20
  Single mother, business owner, operator.
• 16:23
  Like, there's not.
• 16:24
  There's no other staff in that tavern.
• 16:26
  Nope.
• 16:26
  That place is jumping every time we see it.
• 16:29
  There's people there.
• 16:30
  All right, so moving on to our next pick, we have, of course, Dr.
• 16:33
  Delbert Doppler.
• 16:35
  What can you say about our good man here?
• 16:37
  He's like the best kind of doctor, the one who doesn't take himself too seriously.
• 16:40
  And he's not even a real doctor.
• 16:42
  Even says that.
• 16:43
  He's like, I'm not a real doctor.
• 16:45
  I just have a doctorate.
• 16:46
  I can't help people.
• 16:47
  I just stand there and useless.
• 16:49
  He's great.
• 16:49
  I love him.
• 16:50
  He's so funny.
• 16:52
  Delbert as he's.
• 16:54
  He's kind of like a straight man, but not really like, he's a straight man, but really funny one, you know,.
• 16:59
  In comparison, he's the butt of the.
• 17:01
  Joke often, and he does that role so well.
• 17:06
  He also has a great change, but his influence on Jim, I wouldn't say, is so strong.
• 17:12
  I think Delbert has relatively little influence on Jim compared to a couple of the other people on this list.
• 17:19
  But it's there.
• 17:20
  He's.
• 17:21
  He's more of an instigator as far as, like, getting the plot along rather than like, he has a.
• 17:25
  Not a fatherly relationship with Jim, but, like, maybe an older brother or mentor kind of situation, but less mentor.
• 17:32
  Probably won't work because he's not, like, actively trying to Teach him anything.
• 17:36
  But at that same time, he cares about him like his mother.
• 17:39
  He enjoys spending time with Jim's mother and the fact that, you know, she's take care of him, give him a place to stay.
• 17:45
  So he's going to look out for Jim at that while they're out on this, you know, trip together, exploring the galaxy.
• 17:50
  But yeah, I would agree with TJ at the end of the day, he's not really like a main mentor here, but he is one of our main characters in the film.
• 17:58
  Yeah.
• 17:59
  Difference.
• 17:59
  Certainly.
• 18:00
  Also just super funny guy.
• 18:02
  Yeah.
• 18:03
  That of course, brings us to Captain Amelia.
• 18:05
  What can we say about our girl?
• 18:06
  She's a great captain.
• 18:07
  She's got her crew together.
• 18:10
  She's sharp witted, sharp tongued.
• 18:12
  Like she can insult you faster than you could come up with a response.
• 18:16
  Like, she's great and she's like, I don't know, she's almost like, you know, someone to snap the whip at you and, you know, put you in line, put you in your place.
• 18:24
  But at the same time, she respects her crew and she's highlights their strengths.
• 18:28
  Yeah, she's a great, great addition to the movie.
• 18:33
  One of the many changes that they make from the book is, you know, about the female captain and I think it works really well.
• 18:41
  She's the only woman on the ship and she just handles it every time.
• 18:46
  Also, really sweet story between her and Delbert and they, they have a weird little litter of space cat dogs.
• 18:56
  Don't worry about the biochemical barriers that have to be broken in order for that to happen.
• 19:00
  You know, it is what it is.
• 19:01
  It is what it is.
• 19:02
  It's okay.
• 19:03
  It's anthropomorphic anyway.
• 19:05
  Yeah, yeah.
• 19:06
  It's not weird, it's just strange.
• 19:08
  Genealogically speaking.
• 19:11
  I would have thought that's not gonna work, but they make it work and they're fun.
• 19:16
  She helps Jim a lot, kind of focusing on what he can do, but not nearly as much as the next person that we're gonna talk about.
• 19:26
  Yeah, yeah.
• 19:27
  Catherine is a really great character in this film.
• 19:29
  She is the prim and proper distinguished officer who's gonna make sure that things are run correctly.
• 19:34
  Like she's British without being British because British people don't exist in space as far as we're aware of.
• 19:40
  We don't know the backstory of where humans fit in and all this mess.
• 19:42
  We don't need to worry about that for right now.
• 19:45
  But what she does provide for Jim is, as you said, like, she provides structure and refinement and like learning.
• 19:52
  Okay.
• 19:53
  You have a strict regimen you're supposed to be following here.
• 19:56
  Like, yeah, sure, you found this magical plot trinket, but, you know, you're not a member of this crew.
• 20:00
  You need to earn my respect.
• 20:02
  You need to figure things out here.
• 20:04
  And part of that is following my orders and.
• 20:07
  Which also leads into our next character there.
• 20:08
  As far as where Jim has to go in order to help with that.
• 20:12
  So we get to, of course, our boy, John Silver.
• 20:17
  Long John Silver.
• 20:18
  Long John Silver.
• 20:20
  Not related to the restaurant.
• 20:22
  Also not that tall.
• 20:23
  His food's a little fresher.
• 20:25
  Yeah.
• 20:25
  Oh, certainly.
• 20:26
  Absolutely.
• 20:27
  You know what?
• 20:28
  We're going to spend the back half of this episode talking about why Long John Silver shouldn't exist in spite of their reputation or their correlation with A and W, which I think is a great restaurant, a great brand.
• 20:40
  Fast food.
• 20:41
  Fish is disgusting.
• 20:42
  Thoughts?
• 20:43
  Thoughts?
• 20:44
  Concerns?
• 20:44
  I mean, it's.
• 20:46
  It's prepared for that moment.
• 20:47
  It's like, you know, that was it Fazoli, like fast food.
• 20:50
  Italian, like, it's fine, but, like, it's not going to be.
• 20:52
  It's great.
• 20:53
  It's not fine.
• 20:54
  Argue with a wall.
• 20:55
  Sorry if I have any, like, huge Long John Silver's fans out there.
• 20:59
  That's gross.
• 21:00
  It's kind of like, well, I guess I need food and there's nowhere else to go.
• 21:04
  Sure.
• 21:04
  But, like, it's never going to be my first choice.
• 21:06
  I.
• 21:07
  I would rather drink out of a puddle.
• 21:11
  Yeah.
• 21:12
  Fish, seafood, all that stuff.
• 21:13
  It needs to be prepared properly, like transporting over a long distance.
• 21:16
  The further you get from the coast or a lake, the more likely you have lower quality stuff.
• 21:21
  That's why you should live in North South Carolina and go to fish camps and support local businesses.
• 21:25
  Yep, exactly.
• 21:26
  Which is exactly what Jim Hawkins would say if he were here right now.
• 21:29
  He would say, I need to bring it back this far inland.
• 21:32
  I only eat catfish and bass because that's what we catch.
• 21:38
  But anyway, John Silver on John Silver is the.
• 21:42
  The true father figure.
• 21:44
  The real driving force behind the movie.
• 21:47
  His pursuit of Billy Bones is what leads him to the tavern, which, you know, leads to Jim getting the map, realizing he can unlock the map and find Treasure Planet and the.
• 22:00
  The bond that they create.
• 22:02
  It feels like more than fatherly.
• 22:04
  Set.
• 22:05
  Yeah, it really is just.
• 22:07
  I know what you mean.
• 22:08
  Like soul bonded.
• 22:10
  Like, they really are perfect for each other.
• 22:14
  And the way that John just kind of takes Jim James, as it were, from angsty teenager, aimless, just angry at the world, to confident, you know, like, this is what I'm doing.
• 22:34
  This is what my destiny is.
• 22:36
  I know what I'm about.
• 22:38
  It is so incredible to see.
• 22:40
  And honestly, most of it happens in a montage.
• 22:44
  Like it, you know, pretty much the entire movie is them bonding one way or another or coming to terms, coming to blows.
• 22:53
  But that montage is so good.
• 22:56
  And if you're still listening to this and you haven't watched it, sorry, this really isn't a good way to introduce it.
• 23:02
  But the song that plays in the montage, I'm still here, it was written by and performed by Trent Reznor, which if that name is not familiar, it's the lead singer of the Google Dolls.
• 23:16
  So we're like peak 2000s right here.
• 23:20
  And it really is incredible.
• 23:22
  And it adds so much emotional weight to both characters and the movie itself that it's kind of impossible to not give it its dupes.
• 23:35
  I think it's one of the best Bonds I've ever seen in a film.
• 23:39
  And of course, Jim influences John Silver a lot.
• 23:44
  A ton.
• 23:44
  An absolute ton.
• 23:46
  Because John Silver is a vicious, bloodthirsty pirate and by the end of the movie, he's saving this like 16 year old kid instead of filling his pockets with gold and escaping after finding Treasure Planet.
• 23:59
  It's so good, John.
• 24:00
  I think him being a cyborg was not only like cool factor, but like so intimidating.
• 24:08
  Especially when his eye turns red and he starts doing, you know, getting.
• 24:11
  Using his mechanical devices to ramp up kind of the scary factor.
• 24:17
  Yeah.
• 24:18
  Really kind of terrified me as a kid.
• 24:19
  He was kind of a really cool villain.
• 24:21
  Yeah.
• 24:22
  And inspired choice.
• 24:24
  Real legitimately inspired.
• 24:26
  Because John Silver in the book has a peg leg.
• 24:30
  Does he even have a hook?
• 24:31
  He doesn't even have a hook, does he?
• 24:33
  Pretty sure he has both hands, I think.
• 24:35
  Yeah, I think he has both hands.
• 24:36
  It's been a while since I've read it.
• 24:37
  I'm pretty sure he has both hands in the book.
• 24:39
  And the movie's like, peg leg, boring cyborg.
• 24:44
  Awesome.
• 24:44
  Let's also replace one of his arms.
• 24:47
  I think he was missing an eye though, in Treasure Island.
• 24:50
  In Treasure Planet, they can replace the eye with something cooler.
• 24:53
  Yeah, he has both hands in the vulk.
• 24:56
  Yeah, I thought so.
• 24:57
  That's a truly inspired choice there.
• 25:00
  And it works so well in his favor.
• 25:03
  Incredible design too, for his prosthetics.
• 25:06
  I mean, like, it's not super popular, but Treasure Planet did define kind of a sub genre.
• 25:12
  Sub style.
• 25:13
  Cyberpunk, kind of ish.
• 26:06
  Solar punk.
• 26:07
  Not a lot of examples out there, but Citizen Sleeper is a good one.
• 26:11
  His design and what they choose to do with him is like a perfect example of using your genre and your animated medium as well as you can.
• 26:18
  Like, if you're going to make this sci fi fantasy to an extent based off of a novel that could have happened in the real world, okay, yeah, sure.
• 26:26
  Do these things make them a side world?
• 26:28
  Make these somebody's pirates, aliens or the Captain aliens, stuff like that.
• 26:32
  That's one of the enjoyable parts of it is, like, it feels like a living, breathing world.
• 26:37
  I remember, I don't think the box office went that well for this film, which is a huge tragedy.
• 26:42
  It deserved way better because it was a very bold direction to take it.
• 26:46
  And John Silver is a huge part of that.
• 26:47
  We have this old crotchety pirate who feels like you can tell, like, from the beginning, like it's.
• 26:54
  There's very little doubt from the beginning.
• 26:55
  This guy's probably not in the up and up.
• 26:57
  But at that same time, what humanizes him to us, the viewer is, oh, look at how he's taking care of Jim.
• 27:04
  He doesn't have to do these things.
• 27:05
  Like, sure, you could argue it's making his life a little easier.
• 27:08
  You like to make sure that he's getting work done, but at the same time, like, he's showing him how to do things correctly, like navigating and the like and showing him the wonders of the universe together.
• 27:17
  It's almost like he sees a little of himself in Jim and wanting him to, like, take a path like he did, become a pirate.
• 27:25
  But at the same time also, oh, I know what this has cost me.
• 27:28
  And then maybe I don't want you to become me.
• 27:30
  Maybe I want you to be better than me.
• 27:32
  And it's a huge part of the film of, like you said later, excuse me, earlier on, where he gives up his opportunity.
• 27:39
  The thing he's wanted his entire life is Flint's treasure on Treasure Planet.
• 27:44
  And he gives it all up because it would cost him Jim.
• 27:47
  And even though he's probably going to be in prison later on, he's okay with that because he's become a better person.
• 27:52
  And now he's allowed Jim to become better than he ever could have been had he not experienced what he did under Silver's mentorship.
• 27:59
  It's so good.
• 28:00
  It's unbelievable.
• 28:01
  All right, do we have any honorable mentions?
• 28:04
  Kelly Slater.
• 28:05
  Yeah, Kelly Slater.
• 28:06
  Kelly Slater, the professional surfer.
• 28:09
  Not in the movie, of course, but, you know, they had to get those references from somewhere.
• 28:13
  It was probably Kelly Slater.
• 28:14
  Especially at the time.
• 28:15
  It's 2001, when this is in production.
• 28:17
  Oh, yeah.
• 28:18
  99.
• 28:19
  2000.
• 28:19
  2001.
• 28:20
  That's right.
• 28:20
  Kelly Slater's Pro surfer was actually a game.
• 28:23
  Yeah, a good game.
• 28:24
  A great game.
• 28:25
  Game's a lot of fun.
• 28:27
  What did they call the surfing in this film?
• 28:30
  What's the actual technical term?
• 28:32
  Solar surfing.
• 28:33
  Solar.
• 28:34
  Solar surfing.
• 28:35
  I think that's right.
• 28:36
  I think it's solar surfing.
• 28:37
  I'm not sure if they refer to it by name at all, actually.
• 28:40
  Might be supplementary material.
• 28:42
  But to speak on the profit, there wasn't any.
• 28:47
  It cost $192 million for Disney to make this movie.
• 28:51
  Most expensive movie of all time, I think, at the time.
• 28:54
  Animated, at the very least.
• 28:57
  And I.
• 28:57
  I want to say box office numbers closed at, like 108 million or, like 92 million or something.
• 29:06
  Which on any other movie would be.
• 29:07
  Respectable, but on a movie that costs 200 million to make.
• 29:11
  Yeah.
• 29:12
  No, but we're not here to talk about that.
• 29:14
  We have a different episode where I did talk about that a lot.
• 29:17
  Go listen to that.
• 29:18
  Yes, John.
• 29:19
  Honorable mentions for mentors.
• 29:22
  Mentors.
• 29:24
  Arrow.
• 29:25
  In the movie itself, yes.
• 29:28
  I mean, the only other like, notable characters would have been the robot dude who is kind of out of his mind.
• 29:36
  A little lost his mind transforming gelatinous mass that floated around.
• 29:42
  And the character who died.
• 29:44
  I forget his name.
• 29:45
  The big rock dude.
• 29:46
  Arrow.
• 29:47
  Yeah.
• 29:47
  Yeah.
• 29:48
  Solid picks there.
• 29:49
  Ben is one of those characters.
• 29:50
  This is my hot take.
• 29:51
  I don't much care for Ben.
• 29:52
  I think they really wanted Robin Williams again and the way they animated him, but they got Martin Short instead.
• 29:58
  I'm not saying Martin Short is somehow, like, this terrible person or anything, but, like, he's obviously not Robin Williams.
• 30:03
  And I can tell that's who they wanted more.
• 30:06
  Yeah, more if they definitely wanted to catch on and be like, here's our cute little mascot and you're going to buy toys of them.
• 30:11
  And film bombed.
• 30:13
  If that.
• 30:14
  If it came out today, Insane Morph would get.
• 30:18
  Morph would be perfect for, like, today's kids or like, maybe like a few years ago's kids.
• 30:23
  Like slime.
• 30:24
  I don't know.
• 30:24
  Morph.
• 30:25
  Slime.
• 30:25
  Yeah.
• 30:26
  Come on.
• 30:26
  I'd buy more.
• 30:27
  As mentioned, Mr.
• 30:28
  Arrow kind of love him.
• 30:31
  A man who's once again very prim and proper, but also very understanding and, like, hey, I don't really like the likes of the looks of these people, but at the same time, I've got a job to do, so
• 30:41
  I'm going to make them have a job to do.
• 30:42
  And his death via scroop, cutting off the Rope into the black hole.
• 30:47
  One of the most metal deaths in the history of film, in my opinion.
• 30:52
  Oh, yeah.
• 30:53
  It's.
• 30:53
  It's so sick.
• 30:54
  We were.
• 30:55
  I was actually talking right before I got on this call.
• 31:00
  We were talking about Clayton from Tarzan.
• 31:02
  Same era.
• 31:03
  I don't know, these, like, couple of years.
• 31:04
  Like, Atlantis, too.
• 31:06
  Disney just got really into killing.
• 31:08
  The killing people just crush their bad guys.
• 31:12
  That's great.
• 31:12
  Like, Rourke explodes.
• 31:14
  Well, y' all remember that?
• 31:15
  Roark explodes.
• 31:17
  Yeah.
• 31:18
  Clayton got hanged.
• 31:19
  Clayton got hanged by vines.
• 31:21
  They're not a bad guy, but I know what you mean.
• 31:23
  Yeah.
• 31:23
  They went to up and up with death.
• 31:26
  Like, what can we get away with?
• 31:28
  It was.
• 31:29
  It was nuts.
• 31:30
  We didn't show up bloody.
• 31:31
  We didn't show him, you know, brutally stabbed or anything.
• 31:33
  Nope.
• 31:34
  Which could have him die in a black hole.
• 31:36
  Yeah.
• 31:36
  And I don't.
• 31:37
  It's been a long time since I read Tarzan, but I'm pretty sure Edgar Rice Burroughs says in the book that they, like, the jungle, took care of that body.
• 31:47
  Clayton got hanged and eaten.
• 31:49
  The.
• 31:49
  The movie and the book are two very different beasts.
• 31:51
  No pun intended.
• 31:53
  Yeah.
• 31:53
  Good books, though.
• 31:54
  Anyway.
• 31:55
  Definitely Arrow.
• 31:57
  Also one of the very few.
• 31:59
  Maybe the only time, aside from, like, Tim Curry's performance, where I.
• 32:04
  I really think I like Treasure Muppets.
• 32:07
  Treasure Island's version just a little bit more.
• 32:09
  It's so much funnier to send, like, Sam Eagle off to test the lifeboats.
• 32:15
  And then he actually is just.
• 32:17
  He's not dead.
• 32:17
  He's testing the lifeboats for.
• 32:20
  Yes.
• 32:20
  Until the climax of the movie.
• 32:22
  It's so funny.
• 32:23
  It's so good.
• 32:25
  We can't kill anyone.
• 32:26
  It's a kid's movie.
• 32:26
  Except for Dead Tom, but he was already dead.
• 32:28
  Yeah, it was already dead.
• 32:29
  I think he was dead when we started.
• 32:31
  I think that's why they called him Dead Tom.
• 32:33
  Yeah.
• 32:33
  All right, so we can go back to the question now, having listed all of our mentors and our influencer here, like, which one would we rather be in this film?
• 32:43
  Minty.
• 32:44
  Definitely.
• 32:46
  Definitely.
• 32:46
  In a.
• 32:47
  In a world where you can solar surf, I think I would hate to be old.
• 32:52
  I would.
• 32:53
  And I'm not saying if it will.
• 32:55
  I love you.
• 32:56
  You're a great surfer.
• 32:58
  I'm not you, though.
• 32:59
  I need to be young.
• 33:00
  I need to, like, learn how to solar surf there.
• 33:03
  Also, his journey is.
• 33:05
  Is the journey.
• 33:06
  You know, he gets to learn from all these different classic heroes.
• 33:08
  Journey.
• 33:08
  It is the classic hero's journey.
• 33:11
  And it's a great time.
• 33:13
  He has a good time there's.
• 33:15
  You know, relatively little tragedy for Jim John.
• 33:20
  I kind of like being in Doppler's position.
• 33:22
  He ended up pretty okay, too.
• 33:25
  Oh, yeah.
• 33:27
  Okay.
• 33:28
  Cannot disagree the wisdom behind everyone here.
• 33:31
  Normally I picked the mentor side of things because I love teaching, but I have to be able to TJ on this side of things.
• 33:37
  Growing up in this world where you can actually fly through space, as it were, you know, on a ship or, you know, solar surfer or what have you, like, sign me up, you know, I mean, I get to
• 33:47
  explore new worlds and new civilizations and all that jazz reminds me of.
• 33:52
  Yeah, we didn't actually talk about we were geeking out on, did we?
• 33:55
  We skipped over that and I reminded of that because mine was going to be strange new worlds.
• 34:02
  So, real quickly, does everyone want to show what they're geeking out on besides work?
• 34:06
  Oh, besides work.
• 34:07
  Yeah.
• 34:08
  Tekken 8, actually.
• 34:11
  Oh, man, I'm so tired.
• 34:12
  I love East.
• 34:13
  We've been watching Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood.
• 34:16
  Excellent.
• 34:17
  So good.
• 34:18
  Very good.
• 34:19
  Okay, now that we got that out of the way, because I'm the best host in this thing we call systematic ecology, What can we learn from these mentors when it comes to how we mentor others in our own
• 34:35
  lives with.
• 34:37
  The cyborg in mind, you know, wanting someone to come out better than you, teaching them kind of the best of your skills and how to navigate life, you know, so to speak, and desiring something better for them than
• 34:50
  how you turned out, I think is a pretty noble aspect of, you know, a kind of, you know, a dark character where they're just like, you don't want to end up like me, kind of noble cause.
• 35:03
  Yeah, I.
• 35:04
  I actually try to be Emilia as much as possible.
• 35:10
  We're in a tight ship, type.
• 35:12
  Type shift, I should say.
• 35:14
  Yeah.
• 35:14
  How were quick winded?
• 35:16
  Very.
• 35:17
  I try to be, you know, for the first, like, 10 hours of the day.
• 35:21
  I usually do a pretty good job, but I really do.
• 35:25
  I try to emulate her as much as possible because, you know, witty, fun, keep the spirit up, but at the same time, no nonsense.
• 35:37
  We're here to do our job.
• 35:38
  You get a jab in here and there, but my job is to make sure you're doing your job right.
• 35:43
  Also knows how to fight.
• 35:44
  Yeah, I know how to fight, but they also know that I've got their back and that without that, then it's really pointless.
• 35:51
  Yeah, I'll say.
• 35:52
  I don't thrive under leadership like hers because that strict stuff isn't for me.
• 35:57
  But at the end of the day, it doesn't mean it's wrong.
• 35:59
  It just means that's not where I'm fit to be.
• 36:02
  Because there is something to be said, especially for Jim.
• 36:05
  He needed that structure in the film, and she kind of recognized that.
• 36:08
  She knew he was going to rebel against it, but at that same time, teach him there's a reason we do things this way.
• 36:13
  And eventually he learned what that was, gained a respect for her.
• 36:17
  And that's something that we need to do as mentors to those underneath us to sort of discipline, say, look, there are times when you can hate me, just at least respect me.
• 36:26
  Yeah, yeah, that's all.
• 36:28
  That's all I want.
• 36:28
  Really?
• 36:29
  Yeah.
• 36:30
  All right, so what parts of Jim's journey should we emulate or excise from our own lives?
• 36:35
  I think the part where you go through a bunch of stuff and then you get a really cool jacket, I think we should all try to emulate that at least.
• 36:44
  It's like a not lame looking version of the doctorate coat.
• 36:48
  Like the doctorate graduate gown.
• 36:50
  You know, if that was like, of three feet shorter, that'd be awesome.
• 36:56
  I might get a doctorate.
• 36:59
  It's just too gowny, you know.
• 37:01
  But seriously, it's.
• 37:03
  It is the perfect hero's journey.
• 37:04
  Yeah.
• 37:05
  Asking to excise any part of it is asking to not be a part of the human condition, John.
• 37:14
  I mean, just having kind of the naivety of life.
• 37:18
  And then you basically learn how to exist by accidentally taking advice from one of the worst people imaginable.
• 37:25
  But you kind of, oh, what is it?
• 37:28
  Culture shock?
• 37:28
  Your.
• 37:29
  Your way into realizing, hey, the world's a bigger place than this little, you know, my little hometown?
• 37:35
  It's, in fact, very dangerous.
• 37:37
  Also very cool.
• 37:38
  Beautiful in some aspects.
• 37:41
  But, you know, there's a reason that there's a lot of structure and I should try to emulate, you know, kind of the best parts and the necessary things and also know how to fight.
• 37:51
  That's a great thing we can learn from Jim's story is like, when to rebel against authority, when not to.
• 37:56
  You know, when things are being done poorly or the wrong person is in charge.
• 38:00
  Yeah.
• 38:00
  Rebel away.
• 38:00
  But like, you're doing things for the sake of rebellion.
• 38:03
  Like.
• 38:04
  No, like you're just doing that to be a little angsty teen.
• 38:07
  And that's okay.
• 38:08
  That's part of his journey.
• 38:08
  That's part of his growth.
• 38:09
  It's like he has to start off on a poor footing so that when he gets to where he does at the end of the film and go, okay, yeah, you've earned that journey and yeah, as we said, this
• 38:17
  is a typical hero's journey.
• 38:19
  And some people would say cliche, like, well, there's a reason it is what it is.
• 38:23
  Like, there's a reason it works.
• 38:24
  There's a reason I watched Luke Skywalker become the guy who blew up the Death Star.
• 38:28
  Like, it's so great to see that classic hero's journey is like, we see someone who starts from nothing and ends up way beyond where they thought they'd ever be, even in their wildest imagination.
• 38:37
  This is great.
• 38:38
  So I have no issue with it when it's done well, when you've seen it done poorly.
• 38:42
  Yeah, I'm with you 100%.
• 38:43
  But if you're saying that's happening in Treasure Planet, like, it's time to walk the plank.
• 38:46
  I know how to fight.
• 38:49
  Yeah, and you never know.
• 38:51
  You.
• 38:51
  If you express these feelings in any Chipotle, you may end up being in.
• 38:55
  TJ might be there and he might overhear you.
• 38:57
  This isn't Waffle House.
• 39:01
  No, it ain't.
• 39:01
  No, Waffle House hasn't stories released to the press.
• 39:06
  TJ knows how to keep things concealed.
• 39:11
  All right, so, gentlemen, we also do bonus questions with these.
• 39:15
  I'm going to be asking a question.
• 39:16
  What other classic novels are begging for a Treasure Planet like adaptation?
• 39:21
  We don't have to spell exactly what we do with it, but if you want to, we can.
• 39:25
  So if that guy, if that interests you listeners, you can head our way to fourth wall, become a member there at the end of here.
• 39:31
  You feel free to do so.
• 39:33
  But gentlemen, before we head any further into the wrapping up segment, is there anything you'd like to discuss before we do wrap things up?
• 39:41
  If you are still listening to this right now and you haven't seen Treasure Planet and you don't know what we're talking about with the animation style, Deep Canvas.
• 39:51
  You've probably seen Tarzan.
• 39:53
  That is the only other time Disney ever used this technology, to my knowledge.
• 39:58
  And they only used it for the vines during the vine surfing.
• 40:03
  Anyway, it's visually my favorite part of Tarzan, and this entire movie looks like that.
• 40:09
  All right, so out of 10, what are you rating?
• 40:11
  10 this film, John.
• 40:13
  10?
• 40:13
  I'm gonna say 10 as well.
• 40:14
  We got a 30.
• 40:15
  I am very happy with that.
• 40:17
  It's.
• 40:18
  It's a perfect film on the fact that it makes me very happy.
• 40:21
  It is not a perfect film, as in without flaws.
• 40:23
  But you know what?
• 40:23
  That's fine.
• 40:24
  Once again, created by human hands.
• 40:26
  So, gentlemen, do you have a recommendation for the audience to check out besides.
• 40:30
  The movie we just discussed, Muppets Treasure Island.
• 40:34
  If you have.
• 40:34
  If you're not a Muppets guy, Muppets Treasure island is a great one.
• 40:38
  It's, it's probably like top three or four for me for Muppets films.
• 40:44
  Also, while we're, while we're in town, if you watch Muppets Treasure island, also go watch Dolly Parton's episode of the Muppets show, May she rest in peace.
• 40:57
  It's a great episode.
• 40:58
  She's so funny.
• 41:00
  Also, Peter Cullen was in Muppet Babies.
• 41:04
  I'm.
• 41:04
  I like them up.
• 41:05
  It's been a week.
• 41:06
  It's been a week.
• 41:07
  Optimus Prime.
• 41:08
  Optimus Prime.
• 41:09
  And also Fozzie Bear's cousin.
• 41:12
  Good recommendations, John.
• 41:14
  I would recommend Skeleton Crew if you're gonna be on the Treasure Island.
• 41:18
  Kind of a theme in space.
• 41:21
  Skeleton Crew is kind of almost loosely similar to that as well, except it follows kind of a ragtag, ragtag group of kids that's like the Goonies in space, but it's another piratey adventure.
• 41:33
  A lot of fun.
• 41:34
  Yeah.
• 41:34
  The Treasure island, you know, representation there is very self apparent.
• 41:38
  That's not a bad thing.
• 41:39
  Like, yeah, it's a fun, harmless show.
• 41:41
  Go have fun.
• 41:42
  That's the worst part about reading the classics.
• 41:45
  Every time I read a classic novel, I'm like, oh, get it.
• 41:49
  Yeah.
• 41:49
  I really, I've seen this elsewhere and it's not your fault novel that I saw this elsewhere before I got to you.
• 41:55
  It's not even that.
• 41:56
  It's just every time it annoys me because I'm like, oh, yeah, this is a classic.
• 42:00
  This is a great book.
• 42:03
  Oh, that's what you're talking about.
• 42:04
  Yeah, like war.
• 42:05
  You ever have you read War and Peace?
• 42:07
  Yes.
• 42:08
  It's so good.
• 42:09
  Yeah.
• 42:09
  Yeah, I agree.
• 42:11
  That realization of, okay, why is everyone hyping this up?
• 42:14
  Oh, that's why.
• 42:15
  Yeah.
• 42:15
  So they were right.
• 42:16
  They were.
• 42:16
  They were the breaking bads of their times.
• 42:18
  Yeah.
• 42:18
  It's like, okay, this is 3,000 pages long.
• 42:21
  No way.
• 42:21
  Everyone who reads it says it was worth it.
• 42:24
  This was phenomenal.
• 42:25
  It is.
• 42:26
  And I'm gonna throw up my recommendation.
• 42:28
  I got reminded of this today from news of why doesn't Rick Weisman just make it into a comic book?
• 42:33
  Well, because Sony and Disney won't let him.
• 42:35
  And that's a Spectacular Spider man show only ran for two seasons.
• 42:38
  We deserve much more, but we got what we got and it was very great.
• 42:42
  So, like to thank some supporters real quick, thank you very much to Aaron Hardy, Daniel Sigman, Trip Fuller and James Barrett.
• 42:49
  You guys are the best.
• 42:49
  But remember, we are all the chosen people.
• 42:51
  A geekdom of Greece.