Transcript

Credlin | 20 January · Credlin

0:01
Speaker 1: Peter Kremlin live on Sky News Australia.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening, welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
0:10
Speaker 2: tonight on Kredline. The government's hate speech bill passed the
0:14
Speaker 2: Lower House. All eyes now on the Senate ladies playing hardball,
0:17
Speaker 2: though they're forcing a vote tonight with a guillotine. I've
0:21
Speaker 2: had a lot of messages. This is a badly drafted
0:24
Speaker 2: set of builds. I'll keep you across what's happening as
0:28
Speaker 2: the show goes on. But laws or no laws, the
0:30
Speaker 2: elephant in the room is radical Islam, someone who had
0:33
Speaker 2: no qualms fighting this fire. Tony Abbott will join me
0:36
Speaker 2: a bit later for his take on this. A News
0:39
Speaker 2: poll and a whole lot more, plus outrage over an
0:42
Speaker 2: Australian gender clinic that's enabling double mistectomies the teenage girls
0:46
Speaker 2: who identify as boys. I speak to a former State
0:49
Speaker 2: Chief Medical officer, professor of medicine who's sound in the alarm,
0:54
Speaker 2: not just on this, the gender medicine more broadly, and
0:58
Speaker 2: it was a fiery first question of twenty twenty six Today.
1:02
Speaker 2: Labor leaders, you know, they're quick to apologize the past
1:06
Speaker 2: decisions of governments that have got nothing to do with them,
1:09
Speaker 2: but they will not say sorry when it happens on
1:12
Speaker 2: their watch.
1:14
Speaker 3: Not once is the Prime Minister admitted to and said
1:16
Speaker 3: sorry for his mistakes. Can the Prime Minister just humble
1:20
Speaker 3: himself at once and simply say sorry? Or will you
1:24
Speaker 3: apologize to Jewish Australians.
1:27
Speaker 4: The Jewish community wants to hear their prime ministers say
1:30
Speaker 4: sorry for the third time.
1:32
Speaker 1: Why won't you say sorry too?
1:37
Speaker 5: Well?
1:37
Speaker 2: Say with this issue because it was supposed to be
1:40
Speaker 2: a demonstration this week of a national unity, all Australia's
1:44
Speaker 2: national leaders coming together in the Parliament to heal and
1:48
Speaker 2: make the country safer after the Bondai massacre.
1:51
Speaker 5: But what's ended up this.
1:52
Speaker 2: Week is just highlighting our divisions. The old Easy government's
1:57
Speaker 2: original proposal combine sweeping legis against hate speech with further
2:02
Speaker 2: restrictions on our already tough gun laws in a calculator
2:06
Speaker 2: move to try and embarrass the Coalition. The fact that
2:10
Speaker 2: they tried to amend very different laws in one package
2:13
Speaker 2: of bills set it all.
2:15
Speaker 5: The government wanted a broad.
2:16
Speaker 2: Definition of hate that the Coalition rightly rejected as an
2:20
Speaker 2: assault on free speech. The Greens, well, they wanted specific
2:24
Speaker 2: references to hate acrossed every minority group that Labor rightly
2:30
Speaker 2: rejected as going too far, and so it was no
2:33
Speaker 2: surprise at Albany Easy was forced to pull his original
2:37
Speaker 2: hate speech draft, poorly sought through as it was, and
2:41
Speaker 2: then split the bills. Fast forward to tonight, and it
2:45
Speaker 2: looks like the gun laws have passed the Parliament with
2:49
Speaker 2: Green's support and hate speech legislation is set to pass
2:53
Speaker 2: with Liberal support. Now I say liberal because it would
2:57
Speaker 2: appear the Nationals have a different view.
3:01
Speaker 5: Earlier in the day, the.
3:02
Speaker 2: Laws that were only supposed to be against hate groups
3:06
Speaker 2: past the Parliament, sorry passed the House of Representatives with
3:10
Speaker 2: Liberal support, even though the government's final amendments seem to
3:15
Speaker 2: bring hate speech back regarding individuals, not just groups. Via
3:20
Speaker 2: this clause, and I'll read it to you, it states
3:22
Speaker 2: that a hate crime was quote publicly inciting hatred of
3:26
Speaker 2: another person that would quote in all circumstances cause a
3:31
Speaker 2: reasonable person who is the target or a member of
3:34
Speaker 2: the target group to be intimidated or fear harassment or violence,
3:39
Speaker 2: or fear for their safety.
3:41
Speaker 5: Now that definition I just.
3:42
Speaker 2: Read out as amended today would appear to be a
3:46
Speaker 2: whole lot broader than earlier indicated, it would also appear
3:50
Speaker 2: to include, as I said, individuals, not just groups.
3:53
Speaker 5: But we'll see.
3:54
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens to all of this in the
3:56
Speaker 2: Senate later tonight, and I'll listen carefully to the concern
4:00
Speaker 2: of Coalition senators who were earlier worried that the Right
4:05
Speaker 2: to be worried that Labour's trying to use this hate
4:08
Speaker 2: speech legislation as a backdoor way to shut down the
4:11
Speaker 2: legitimate criticism of things like radical Islam.
4:16
Speaker 5: So we'll see.
4:18
Speaker 2: But honestly, this package of bills, the way they're drafted,
4:22
Speaker 2: the whole process, the government's management of the issue has
4:27
Speaker 2: been a mess. The basic problem is that the government
4:30
Speaker 2: has never made clear exactly what should constitute hate speech
4:35
Speaker 2: and exactly why the current laws are inadequate. After all,
4:39
Speaker 2: it's never been legal in this country to incite violence,
4:43
Speaker 2: to defeign people, or to reveal confidential information. And Section
4:48
Speaker 2: eighteen C of the Racial Discrimination Act, and that's been
4:51
Speaker 2: in place since the Keeting era. It outlaws anything that
4:55
Speaker 2: might be quote offensive, insult, humiliate, or intimidate people on
5:01
Speaker 2: the grounds of race. Why don't you might ask, has
5:04
Speaker 2: the current laws never been used then? To stop hate
5:08
Speaker 2: preachers who've been calling for the death of Jews or
5:11
Speaker 2: celebrating the death of Jews on numerous occasions over the
5:13
Speaker 2: past two years. In fact, it took the actions of
5:16
Speaker 2: a Jewish group themselves against a hate preacher for action.
5:22
Speaker 6: But a lot the day you will be kicked up
5:25
Speaker 6: or Palestine is coming?
5:26
Speaker 7: Are they when the stones and the trees will speak
5:29
Speaker 7: and say, oh, Muslim there is a Jew behind me, Come.
5:32
Speaker 8: And kill him.
5:32
Speaker 1: I believe.
5:35
Speaker 8: Deep down the Muslim leaders, even in Australia know that
5:39
Speaker 8: what I'm saying is to be the truth.
5:44
Speaker 2: I think a lot of our current laws are adequate.
5:47
Speaker 2: If a government doesn't think they are, I'm not heard
5:50
Speaker 2: the arguments against it. Likewise, the government's never made it
5:54
Speaker 2: clear what speech it objects to and what would be
5:58
Speaker 2: banned what would not be banned. For instance, does the
6:02
Speaker 2: government want to stop mobs shouting death death to the
6:05
Speaker 2: IDF or globalize the into farda?
6:08
Speaker 9: Now?
6:08
Speaker 2: If it does, why not say that explicitly? Even today
6:13
Speaker 2: the government still refuses to answer questions like that. If
6:18
Speaker 2: it does think globalized the interofart is okay, then just
6:22
Speaker 2: what would constitute hate speech? Even under these new laws? Similarly,
6:27
Speaker 2: in the extreme Islamist group Husbyteria. If the government wants
6:31
Speaker 2: to ban a group like Husbeteria, as it seems to
6:34
Speaker 2: say it does, well, why not just specify that put
6:38
Speaker 2: it in the legislation. In the end, it seems the
6:41
Speaker 2: effectiveness of any so called in principle measure, and that's
6:45
Speaker 2: how these bills are drafted, passes the Parliament, whether it's
6:49
Speaker 2: against hate speech or hate groups, although I'll end up
6:54
Speaker 2: being subject to the women of judges and as we know,
6:58
Speaker 2: unelected and unaccountable judges. Unless laws are well drafted and
7:04
Speaker 2: very specific, could end up turning laws into all sorts
7:08
Speaker 2: of things that the elected and accountable parliament never intended.
7:15
Speaker 2: It's the operation of the most important law of politics,
7:18
Speaker 2: the law of unintended consequences. As I showed you last
7:22
Speaker 2: night when we spoke with a former policeman Julian Folks.
7:25
Speaker 2: In Britain, they're very broad. Laws, whether against hate speech
7:30
Speaker 2: or hate groups, have been much more used against citizens
7:35
Speaker 2: objecting to immigration or rejecting wokery than they've ever been
7:39
Speaker 2: used against those that promote terrorism.
7:42
Speaker 9: Unfortunately, the issue we've got here, and I suspect you've
7:46
Speaker 9: probably got the same issue in Australia is that the
7:51
Speaker 9: elephants in the room and it has to be talked
7:54
Speaker 9: about is radical Isram and it doesn't get mentioned.
8:01
Speaker 5: Let's face it.
8:02
Speaker 2: For two years, no labor government, state or federal, and
8:06
Speaker 2: no police force, either state or federal have used the
8:10
Speaker 2: existing laws we have to prosecute hate speech, or to
8:14
Speaker 2: deport hate preachers, or to break up hate marches, even
8:18
Speaker 2: though there've been more than happy to crack down on
8:20
Speaker 2: neo Nazis their protests and to deport some now fair
8:25
Speaker 2: enough too. But will anything that's happening now in the
8:28
Speaker 2: Parliament really end the left double standards between a tax
8:32
Speaker 2: on Jews and a tax on are the more ideologically
8:36
Speaker 2: favored minority groups. At every point, the Albanezer government has
8:41
Speaker 2: been eurotic about upsetting the Muslim groups that always see
8:45
Speaker 2: Muslims as victims and never take any responsibility for the
8:48
Speaker 2: horrors done in the name of Islam, for instance, the
8:52
Speaker 2: Australian National Imum's Council and the Islamophobia Envoy or they've
8:57
Speaker 2: rejected all the government's and NISI proposals to outlaw due hatred,
9:03
Speaker 2: despite the exceptions made for quotations from religious texts or
9:07
Speaker 2: explanations of religious teaching that they say are a quote rallying.
9:13
Speaker 5: Cry against Muslims.
9:15
Speaker 2: The mrms say the government's proposed laws they preferred original
9:20
Speaker 2: legislation could prevent what they said would be or should
9:24
Speaker 2: be lawful Palestinian advocacy. I think this could be used
9:28
Speaker 2: as a justification for hamas terrorism. Again listening to this
9:32
Speaker 2: interview I did in London last year with a Muslim
9:35
Speaker 2: academic who has no issue whatsoever calling out radical Islam
9:40
Speaker 2: and warning us in Australia in the wider West that
9:44
Speaker 2: we underestibate the threat to check is.
9:48
Speaker 8: Very essential and important because they come from an area
9:52
Speaker 8: is quite a to radicalize these people when they come
9:54
Speaker 8: to your country, that are a tool away from carrying
9:57
Speaker 8: the crime against any of your children, or any of
10:00
Speaker 8: your people, or any.
10:01
Speaker 4: Of your markets.
10:02
Speaker 8: So it's quite a dangerous to not do any security check.
10:08
Speaker 2: The Australian National Imams Council, by the way, is the
10:11
Speaker 2: same group that was recently awarded twenty five million dollars
10:14
Speaker 2: from the Albanese government, including a range of things, but
10:18
Speaker 2: including too boost security at mosques and other Muslim centers
10:21
Speaker 2: as if they're under the same sort of threat as
10:24
Speaker 2: Jewish centers.
10:24
Speaker 1: Well they are not.
10:26
Speaker 5: It's synagogue's being blown up. It's not mosques.
10:29
Speaker 2: It's Christian bishops getting stabbed bid mass not imms at
10:33
Speaker 2: prayers on Friday. I'm sure the Prime Minister really does
10:37
Speaker 2: now want the current epidemic of jew hatred to go away,
10:42
Speaker 2: because now that it's hurting him in the polls, it's
10:45
Speaker 2: hurting Labor. He's waking up and taking notice. But it
10:49
Speaker 2: won't go away until it can bring himself to specifically
10:52
Speaker 2: deal with the Islamist extremism that's driving it.
10:56
Speaker 5: And he'll never be.
10:58
Speaker 2: Able to do that because there's too much simil sympathy
11:00
Speaker 2: for the Muslim vote inside his own party.
11:05
Speaker 5: I've said this before.
11:06
Speaker 2: If you cannot name the problem, you can't deal with it,
11:10
Speaker 2: and that's Labour's real issue. All right, Let's go to
11:18
Speaker 2: Camper now for the headlines without political reporter Ruven Spargo.
11:23
Speaker 10: Parliament is working on the legislative response to the Bondai massacre.
11:27
Speaker 10: Gun reform was the first measure to progress. The package
11:31
Speaker 10: establishes a national firearms buyback scheme, expands information sharing between
11:36
Speaker 10: federal and state authorities, and creates new offenses targeting the
11:40
Speaker 10: three D printing of weaponry. It will also bar non
11:43
Speaker 10: Australian citizens from owning firearms. Under those laws, those two
11:49
Speaker 10: people would have been able to access zero firearms. The
11:55
Speaker 10: coalition opposed the gun control changes.
11:58
Speaker 1: What happened in Bondoi.
12:00
Speaker 5: This is an Islamic extremist attack in this country.
12:03
Speaker 1: That's the governess nature.
12:05
Speaker 5: Of this government.
12:06
Speaker 10: That will grown up to the problems that has been
12:09
Speaker 10: allowed to see into this country.
12:10
Speaker 4: Paid speech laws we're next on the agenda.
12:13
Speaker 10: After a deal was struck between the Government and the Liberals,
12:17
Speaker 10: the Nationals split from their senior coalition partner in the House.
12:20
Speaker 10: Two members voted against it, one voted for it, and
12:24
Speaker 10: the rest abstained.
12:26
Speaker 11: Every single measure put forward by those opposite hasn't been
12:30
Speaker 11: how do we strengthen the legislation. It's been, Oh, we've
12:33
Speaker 11: got an internal problem.
12:35
Speaker 5: Can we weaken it a little bit?
12:37
Speaker 1: Here and there.
12:38
Speaker 10: The Prime Minister met the Opposition leader to work through
12:40
Speaker 10: the bill's changes. Susanly secured a requirement that the opposition
12:45
Speaker 10: leader be consulted on the listing of extremist organizations.
12:49
Speaker 3: We are here in the first place because Susan Lee
12:51
Speaker 3: forced the government's hand and brought the Parliament back early.
12:54
Speaker 10: The lower House will return tomorrow morning after legislation passes
12:58
Speaker 10: through the Senate.
13:02
Speaker 2: All right, we'll stay in camber. It's been a busy
13:03
Speaker 2: day and still be busy tonight. And joining me now
13:06
Speaker 2: our political editor for twenty twenty six, kicking off the year,
13:09
Speaker 2: Andrew Clenell, Andrew, welcome. We'll start with the legislation. I
13:13
Speaker 2: want to get a broader take on the year ahead
13:15
Speaker 2: in a moment, but two Nats cross the floor in
13:18
Speaker 2: the House, Colin Boyce, Lou O'Brien. We played a little
13:21
Speaker 2: bit of what they had to say there. I made
13:24
Speaker 2: a mention at the top of the show. It's subject
13:26
Speaker 2: to a guillotine in the Senate, so there will be
13:28
Speaker 2: a forced vote tonight. I assume it'll pass.
13:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll pass.
13:35
Speaker 12: But the difficulty for the Opposition and Susan Lee is
13:39
Speaker 12: as things stand, and they could have changed in the
13:41
Speaker 12: last couple of hours. But my understanding is the Nationals
13:44
Speaker 12: are likely to oppose it or the very least sustain
13:47
Speaker 12: from a vote on it, and the Liberals are likely
13:49
Speaker 12: to vote for it. And I'm not talking about the
13:51
Speaker 12: gun control The Greens are passing that I'm talking about
13:54
Speaker 12: the other legislation around anti Semitism and the hate speech, etc.
13:58
Speaker 12: So that's a terrible result for Susan Lee in my view, shocking,
14:03
Speaker 12: and you know, it gives opportunity to people who want
14:07
Speaker 12: to challenge her to say, well, I can work with
14:09
Speaker 12: the Nationals and she can't.
14:13
Speaker 2: All right, let's go to the broader issue of how
14:16
Speaker 2: the year started yesterday with that year's poll. You know,
14:20
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty to the two Majors, so only half
14:23
Speaker 2: of the available vote. The other half of the available
14:27
Speaker 2: vote is splintering far and wide on the left.
14:31
Speaker 5: End obviously on the right.
14:33
Speaker 2: We'll get to one notion specifically, but give me a
14:36
Speaker 2: call on the two Majors as you see it now
14:40
Speaker 2: in early January.
14:43
Speaker 12: Well, I can't see Susan Lee surviving the year given
14:47
Speaker 12: those sort of numbers. And you know, she's actually had
14:50
Speaker 12: a pretty good summer. She's taken it up to the government,
14:52
Speaker 12: she's put pressure on but I think Labour's had some
14:54
Speaker 12: success in saying you're politicizing it too much. I mean
14:58
Speaker 12: that's you know, you damned if you do, damned if
14:59
Speaker 12: you do, if you Susan Lee, and she's so hostage
15:02
Speaker 12: to what the party rooms think that she doesn't look
15:05
Speaker 12: like her own person, like you know, this example of
15:07
Speaker 12: her saying, get parliament back, get parliament back, Oh, it's back.
15:11
Speaker 12: Oh you know, we can't pass the laws. So I
15:15
Speaker 12: think she's in a bit of strife. The government is
15:17
Speaker 12: severely weakened. So I do see sort of parallels between
15:21
Speaker 12: this situation. In twenty nineteen, you had a massive victory
15:24
Speaker 12: from by Albanesi. You had a massive victory by Scott Morrison,
15:28
Speaker 12: a surprise victory, and then the bushfires came along and
15:31
Speaker 12: he had cabargo and all the rest, and so they
15:34
Speaker 12: riding on a high. The government was quite arrogant in fact,
15:36
Speaker 12: so it was Morrison. You know, you could say that
15:38
Speaker 12: about Alberanzi a bit as well. You know that he
15:40
Speaker 12: thought he was invincible. But I think Albanese probably experienced
15:44
Speaker 12: enough to know that, you know, just when you think
15:47
Speaker 12: that happens, you get something like this, And he didn't
15:49
Speaker 12: stand up in the first couple of days I commentated
15:52
Speaker 12: on that last year, I don't think well enough compared
15:54
Speaker 12: to Chris Mins in the wake of this, it was
15:56
Speaker 12: almost like he was shocked. I have to say, it
15:58
Speaker 12: looked a lot better today, but Alment's his comfort zone.
16:01
Speaker 12: But that was a critical time. Then he allowed that
16:04
Speaker 12: Royal Commission opening that debate, which sort of encapsulated, look,
16:07
Speaker 12: you haven't performed strongly enough on this, so he finds
16:11
Speaker 12: himself weakened. You know, he's still very much in an
16:13
Speaker 12: election winning position, particularly if the other side don't perform
16:16
Speaker 12: very well and they're not going so well. But yeah,
16:19
Speaker 12: the danger I guess to Australian politics is this rise
16:22
Speaker 12: of one nation because we know in some positions they
16:27
Speaker 12: have some pretty extreme positions and both major site parties
16:31
Speaker 12: need to lift their game or they're going to have
16:33
Speaker 12: seats taken by them. And that's the bottom line. And
16:35
Speaker 12: then you can even have a balance of power situation
16:37
Speaker 12: with one nation. We're a long way from that now,
16:40
Speaker 12: but if the polls continue as they are, that's where
16:42
Speaker 12: you end up. And I think Barnaby Joyce sort of
16:45
Speaker 12: strengthens that sort of pulling handsome position. Let's see if
16:48
Speaker 12: they can keep getting on for two years. I reported
16:52
Speaker 12: today Peter that I think Colin Boyce and one or
16:55
Speaker 12: two others might also go from the Nationals to one nation.
16:58
Speaker 12: So there you got David Little Proud's got massive headaches
17:01
Speaker 12: as well, really big headaches. So you could almost fount
17:05
Speaker 12: a case that the three leaders have got headaches, Alban
17:09
Speaker 12: Ezy Lee and Little Proud. Alban Easy Funnily enough, given
17:13
Speaker 12: where he was a month ago, probably has the least
17:15
Speaker 12: headaches of all of them, at least is in front.
17:20
Speaker 2: So I don't want to say or even suggest that
17:24
Speaker 2: there's rumblings about the Prime Minister's leadership in the same
17:26
Speaker 2: way that I think Susan Lee will face a voting
17:29
Speaker 2: the party room this year. But are people hoping, wishing,
17:34
Speaker 2: thinking that we might see the retirement this term of
17:38
Speaker 2: the Prime minister in some way.
17:40
Speaker 12: Well, there's always people wishing that, people who want the job,
17:44
Speaker 12: and there's probably five or six of them on the
17:45
Speaker 12: labor side. Look, I don't anticipate it. I think, you know,
17:52
Speaker 12: the Bondi thing made it more possible, but I still
17:54
Speaker 12: don't think that that's his intention at the moment. Is
17:57
Speaker 12: still in front, well in front the way I see it,
18:00
Speaker 12: and you always have. He had a dip around the
18:01
Speaker 12: time of the Voice and came back, but that really
18:05
Speaker 12: sort of shattered that election sort of arrogance around the place.
18:09
Speaker 12: Hubris if you like, and I just look at it
18:13
Speaker 12: like if you think about the bushfires and Morrison, Peter,
18:16
Speaker 12: he was damaged by that, but he came back and
18:18
Speaker 12: the initial COVID response was really good and then he
18:20
Speaker 12: was flying I Scott Morrison. But what happens is that
18:23
Speaker 12: this sort of narrative develops and then people sort of
18:28
Speaker 12: can forgive you if you perform after that, but then
18:31
Speaker 12: it can come back. And that's the danger for Albaneze
18:33
Speaker 12: now that if he faces another crisis, or he faces
18:38
Speaker 12: a situation where Australians aren't happy with the way he
18:41
Speaker 12: deals with it, they remember how he reacted straight after BONDI,
18:46
Speaker 12: and you know then they think, oh well he put
18:48
Speaker 12: up that voice too, and we didn't particularly like that,
18:51
Speaker 12: and it all sort of snowballs and suddenly you go
18:54
Speaker 12: from here at a zero. And we very much saw
18:56
Speaker 12: that with Scott Morrison, so and alber Easy saw that
18:59
Speaker 12: he must know that that's the that's the peril for
19:02
Speaker 12: him now, not that he's he's in peril at the moment,
19:06
Speaker 12: but that you know, the longer he's stay in office,
19:10
Speaker 12: the more your capital goes.
19:12
Speaker 1: And some of his has gone.
19:16
Speaker 2: And I'll watch with interest how much he does on
19:18
Speaker 2: the celebrity circuit. I think that that's also been damaging
19:22
Speaker 2: for him, and you're right, he just needs another incident
19:25
Speaker 2: now and all of this sort of aggregates against him.
19:28
Speaker 2: I don't know that we're going to see him at
19:30
Speaker 2: the tennis. I think he's going to be quite risk
19:32
Speaker 2: adverse andrew about being in a public section where he
19:36
Speaker 2: could be booed.
19:38
Speaker 12: One hundred percent one hundred percent. And look, I'll tell you, look,
19:42
Speaker 12: I went to the SCG Test. He did it, and
19:45
Speaker 12: you know he would always go to that. The only
19:48
Speaker 12: one he hasn't been to in years, I reckon is
19:51
Speaker 12: just before the election he was given advice don't go
19:53
Speaker 12: to the cricket or the tennis. I'll tell you what
19:55
Speaker 12: to kill him though, To kill Anthony ab and easy
19:57
Speaker 12: because if there's a couple of things he loves doing,
20:00
Speaker 12: it's the SCG Test and the Australian Open finals. So
20:03
Speaker 12: let's look for the final if he goes. But I'd
20:06
Speaker 12: be betting he doesn't go. And you know that's pretty
20:09
Speaker 12: smart really because yeah, if you get booed, that gets
20:13
Speaker 12: remembered as well, not to mention it's a pretty unpleasant
20:16
Speaker 12: experience for a person.
20:19
Speaker 5: All right, we will watch with interest. Andrew. Great to
20:21
Speaker 5: have you backer. We've got two state.
20:23
Speaker 2: Elections, as I mentioned last night, the US midterms later
20:25
Speaker 2: in the year. It'll be a big year, as it
20:27
Speaker 2: always is, politics unpredictable.
20:30
Speaker 5: Andrew Carnell, thank you.
20:31
Speaker 2: It's now been thirteen years since that infamous car crash
20:35
Speaker 2: evolving Dan and Catherine Andrews and a young cyclist in Melbourne.
20:39
Speaker 2: The police investigation at the time supported the Andrews account
20:43
Speaker 2: of events that the cyclist, Ryan Mullman, had run into
20:48
Speaker 2: their vehicle. Earlier this month, The Herald Sun reported that
20:51
Speaker 2: Ryan had checked himself into a treatment center in December
20:55
Speaker 2: to get help with psychological and other health issues, with
20:59
Speaker 2: his father's saying.
21:00
Speaker 5: He has never really recovered.
21:03
Speaker 2: Ryan's currently engaged in defamation action against the Andrews, who
21:08
Speaker 2: have always denied any wrongdoing. There has been ongoing interest
21:13
Speaker 2: in this case. There has never gone away, and there's
21:16
Speaker 2: now a new true crime podcast called bike Boy that
21:20
Speaker 2: investigates the actual incident. It's over six episodes. I've listened
21:25
Speaker 2: to it. I love it. It's already had two hundred
21:29
Speaker 2: thousand downloads.
21:31
Speaker 5: In just a few short weeks.
21:33
Speaker 2: It feature's former Senior Constable Scott Hanley, who has identified
21:37
Speaker 2: thirty five procedural errors in his own investigation of the incident.
21:42
Speaker 2: These include the fact that the Andrews were not breath
21:45
Speaker 2: tested and they are allowed to drive away in the
21:48
Speaker 2: car from the scene. Joentymen Now is the host of
21:52
Speaker 2: the podcast Row.
21:53
Speaker 5: And Win Welcome Rohan. As I said, I've listened to it.
21:57
Speaker 5: I love it.
21:58
Speaker 2: Two hundred thousand other Australians love it too.
22:00
Speaker 4: Yes.
22:01
Speaker 2: In this report from a former police officer who was
22:05
Speaker 2: working in that vicinity on the day, I mean the
22:08
Speaker 2: circumstance is there in a self extraordinary. He is identified
22:12
Speaker 2: about thirty five places in that sequence of events where
22:17
Speaker 2: police did not follow normal procedure.
22:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's extraordinary.
22:22
Speaker 5: Take me through the top line ones there.
22:24
Speaker 13: Well, the amazing thing is what they didn't do. There's
22:26
Speaker 13: so many things they should have done it they just
22:27
Speaker 13: didn't do.
22:28
Speaker 4: You know.
22:28
Speaker 13: They didn't close off the scene, they didn't take photographs,
22:30
Speaker 13: they didn't take measurements, they didn't breathalyze the people involved
22:33
Speaker 13: in the car who are inside the car. They also
22:36
Speaker 13: didn't stop him from taking the car away and they
22:37
Speaker 13: had a smash wind screen and a flat tire. You know,
22:40
Speaker 13: they didn't take a statement for Ryan. They still to
22:42
Speaker 13: this day have never taken a statement for Ryan, the
22:44
Speaker 13: kid who was almost killed. They've only ever taken statements
22:46
Speaker 13: from Kath and Dan. The only two statements have got
22:49
Speaker 13: but the entire crash come from Kath and Dan. And interestingly,
22:52
Speaker 13: we've gone back with the investigation team and found a
22:54
Speaker 13: whole bunch of witnesses who were there on the day,
22:56
Speaker 13: who spoke to the police, who wanted to make their
22:58
Speaker 13: points and tell them what really happened. In their view,
23:00
Speaker 13: not a single statement's been taken.
23:02
Speaker 2: That I find staggering too, because a couple of people
23:04
Speaker 2: that you interviewed in the podcast either witnessed the immediate
23:08
Speaker 2: after Marth saw what was happening in relation to the
23:12
Speaker 2: young man on the ground, made some comments and these
23:15
Speaker 2: are obviously allegations because they're untested by the Andrews, but
23:18
Speaker 2: made allegations about what Daniel Andrews and his wife Catherine
23:22
Speaker 2: did in the immediate after math as well. None of
23:25
Speaker 2: this has been collated by the police. None of this
23:27
Speaker 2: has been tested either by police investigators or indeed a
23:30
Speaker 2: court of law.
23:31
Speaker 13: Correct and Scott was the person who's originally called out.
23:33
Speaker 13: Scott Hanley was called out to the crash and then
23:35
Speaker 13: turned away, And so he's come back sort of all
23:37
Speaker 13: these years later on to help the family as a
23:39
Speaker 13: private investigator and gone through the evidence and he's just
23:42
Speaker 13: been blown away by it, as have we all as
23:43
Speaker 13: we go through it all.
23:45
Speaker 2: And police officers that I've spoken to also say the
23:47
Speaker 2: removal of the vehicle is extraordinary because that all occurred
23:52
Speaker 2: at the time that Ryan Mullman was being airlifted to
23:56
Speaker 2: hospital in a critical condition.
23:57
Speaker 5: Of course, if he had died as a result of
24:00
Speaker 5: this accident, it would have been manslaughter, culpable driving sort
24:05
Speaker 5: of gravity.
24:06
Speaker 13: Within thirty days, it would have been part of the
24:07
Speaker 13: road toll and they would have been off the coroner's
24:09
Speaker 13: court and the coroner would have said, well, what did
24:11
Speaker 13: you do with the crash site. So I think there's
24:12
Speaker 13: some very nervous people after the crash because none of
24:14
Speaker 13: that stuff had been done, and the only photos that
24:16
Speaker 13: were taken to the vehicle were taken after he'd driven,
24:19
Speaker 13: after Andrews had driven the car back to the beach
24:21
Speaker 13: house that ranting and really straight there down in blair Garry,
24:24
Speaker 13: and there's just two various sort of grainy photos that
24:26
Speaker 13: were taken by one of the officers that were never
24:28
Speaker 13: meant to see a lot of day.
24:29
Speaker 2: I suspect one of the other things I find interesting too,
24:31
Speaker 2: that there was a significant passage of time six and
24:35
Speaker 2: a half minutes or something between the collision and these
24:38
Speaker 2: again and relegations between the collision and the ambulance being called,
24:43
Speaker 2: and that it's alleged. Daniel Andrews also made a series
24:47
Speaker 2: of other calls in and around the aftermath of an
24:51
Speaker 2: accident where the kid's lying on the ground, to his
24:54
Speaker 2: own staff, including his chief of staff, who has a
24:59
Speaker 2: very interesting.
24:59
Speaker 5: Hist of his own.
25:01
Speaker 1: He does well.
25:02
Speaker 13: The calls to Chris Riley and also to Brett Curran
25:04
Speaker 13: I think are quite interesting, and they're the ones that
25:06
Speaker 13: the police investigators working for the family you're most concerned about,
25:09
Speaker 13: because they're saying, why are you involving senior police and
25:12
Speaker 13: why are you're doing things like trying to get a
25:13
Speaker 13: new windscreen while Ryan's still lying on the road, dying,
25:16
Speaker 13: trying to fight for his life.
25:17
Speaker 5: Hey, I explain that to my viewers.
25:19
Speaker 13: So we've now got emails and phone records that show
25:21
Speaker 13: that whilst Ryan is still on the road yet to
25:23
Speaker 13: be put into the ambulance. They're actually on the phone.
25:26
Speaker 13: Andrew's on the phone to Chris Riley and then Chris
25:28
Speaker 13: Riley tries to get through the insurers of the Victorian
25:31
Speaker 13: Governor insurers and new wins screen. He's told he can't
25:33
Speaker 13: have one, so he brings windscreens o' brian. Now this
25:35
Speaker 13: is while Ryan is still lying on the road fighting
25:37
Speaker 13: for his life, which this.
25:39
Speaker 5: Is not Daniel Langers, of course is his staff for
25:42
Speaker 5: doing this.
25:42
Speaker 4: But having spoken to Daniel Andrews.
25:44
Speaker 2: Correct that in itself is extraordinary that that's the priority.
25:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, what are they thinking about it?
25:48
Speaker 13: I think about the kid who's fighting for his life
25:50
Speaker 13: for they think about what this looks like if people
25:52
Speaker 13: see it.
25:52
Speaker 5: And he's chief of staff Brett Curran. Where did he
25:54
Speaker 5: end up?
25:55
Speaker 13: Well, he's now an assistant commissioner, so he went back
25:57
Speaker 13: to the he was with the police force he left
25:59
Speaker 13: and was Andrews's chief of staff at the time of
26:01
Speaker 13: the crash. He subsequently went back to Victoria Police and
26:05
Speaker 13: got a promotion to assistant commissioner.
26:07
Speaker 4: Make of that what you will.
26:08
Speaker 5: Where's the case up to now?
26:09
Speaker 13: The defamation case, So it's been delayed. It's a matter
26:12
Speaker 13: of record that it's been delayed. I can't really discuss
26:15
Speaker 13: the reasons why. But then it'll come out in the
26:17
Speaker 13: court in February. There's a hearing in mid February, I
26:19
Speaker 13: think in relation to that, but it has been delayed
26:22
Speaker 13: for a couple of weeks.
26:23
Speaker 5: Will you come back and talk to us in mid February?
26:25
Speaker 4: Sure?
26:25
Speaker 5: And will there be a second series in this podcast?
26:28
Speaker 13: Well, actually, since we did the podcast, it's had as
26:30
Speaker 13: I said, two hundred and eight thousand I think from
26:32
Speaker 13: a few minutes ago I just checked, which is amazing.
26:34
Speaker 13: We didn't expect anything like that, of course, but people
26:36
Speaker 13: have really jumped on the story and a fascinated by it,
26:38
Speaker 13: and since then we've had other people come forward with
26:40
Speaker 13: additional information.
26:41
Speaker 4: So we are considering a series two.
26:43
Speaker 5: As I said, I think justice will come.
26:45
Speaker 2: Whether justice will be in Ryan's favor or not, but
26:48
Speaker 2: certainly there'll be justice.
26:49
Speaker 1: In that this.
26:50
Speaker 5: I think we'll end up in a court of law
26:52
Speaker 5: with the scrutiny. It's never had. Congratulations that you're doing
26:56
Speaker 5: the state service here.
26:58
Speaker 4: Thanks Peter, appreciate it.
27:00
Speaker 5: Yellman family.
27:01
Speaker 2: There you go details on the screen about a podcast
27:03
Speaker 2: go to wherever you get your podcasts.
27:05
Speaker 5: Do not miss it. I loved it, as I said,
27:06
Speaker 5: worth listening to.
27:07
Speaker 2: After the break, Tony Iva's going to join me on
27:10
Speaker 2: the pushback from Islamic leaders on Labour's hate speech laws
27:14
Speaker 2: and what he reckons a coalition must do now to
27:17
Speaker 2: stop the bleed of votes to one nature.
27:23
Speaker 5: Welcome back.
27:24
Speaker 2: Coming up, we'll speak with a former State Chief Medical officer,
27:27
Speaker 2: a professor of medicine who's become the latest expert to
27:30
Speaker 2: raise alarm at the trend of gender medicalization for vulnerable children.
27:35
Speaker 2: But now for more on the hate laws and Australia's
27:39
Speaker 2: Jewish community push for stronger measures to deal with the
27:42
Speaker 2: Bondai terror attack. The main argument from the nation's top
27:47
Speaker 2: imams and even the government's own Islamophobia Envoy is that
27:52
Speaker 2: this legislation on hate speech risk discriminating against Muslims or
27:58
Speaker 2: does it here to discuss this the former Prime Minister
28:01
Speaker 2: of Australia, Tony Abbott, Tony, welcome, just before we get
28:04
Speaker 2: into the detail of the laws before the Parliament, do
28:07
Speaker 2: we need more hate laws or do you think we
28:10
Speaker 2: have the laws right now? We just don't have a
28:13
Speaker 2: political will to enforce them.
28:16
Speaker 1: I think that's a very good point, Peter.
28:18
Speaker 14: I just don't trust this government when it comes to
28:21
Speaker 14: combating due hatred. I think Susan Lee was right when
28:26
Speaker 14: she said that from the very beginning, the governors treated
28:30
Speaker 14: this as a political problem to.
28:32
Speaker 1: Be managed, not a moral evil to be eradicated.
28:37
Speaker 14: They can't tell us even now, exactly what is hate
28:42
Speaker 14: speech under these laws, exactly who are the hate groups
28:46
Speaker 14: and the hate preachers under these laws. And if they
28:51
Speaker 14: can't tell us what these laws will actually do, it's
28:54
Speaker 14: very hard to believe how they're going to make any difference.
28:58
Speaker 1: And that's the test.
29:00
Speaker 14: Are these laws going to change the climate of anti
29:04
Speaker 14: Semitism that's afflicted this country over the last two years.
29:09
Speaker 14: And the final point I'd make, Peter, is that laws
29:12
Speaker 14: that are revised on the run and passed in haste
29:15
Speaker 14: are normally bad laws.
29:17
Speaker 5: So they are they bowling? Are they trying to get
29:20
Speaker 5: rid of a polical.
29:20
Speaker 2: Pole problem and bowling this into the courts to make
29:25
Speaker 2: this some of the courts to solve to get it
29:26
Speaker 2: off the agenda?
29:27
Speaker 4: Is that what it is?
29:28
Speaker 14: Look, I spoke to one of my former colleagues today
29:30
Speaker 14: and I said, so, what actual hate speech will be
29:34
Speaker 14: stopped by these laws, and he said that he'd asked
29:38
Speaker 14: the briefer from the Attorney General's Department that very question
29:43
Speaker 14: and had been told by the senior.
29:45
Speaker 1: Official that's all up to the courts.
29:48
Speaker 14: Now, as we know, courts can go off on any
29:52
Speaker 14: tangent they like. The unelected, unaccountable judges need a much
29:59
Speaker 14: clearer statement from the elected and accountable parliamentarians of exactly
30:05
Speaker 14: what needs to change, but they're never going to get
30:08
Speaker 14: that from this government.
30:09
Speaker 2: How come when you were there and Australia was part
30:14
Speaker 2: of a coalition taking on Islamic state in the Middle
30:18
Speaker 2: Eastern sa of War, how was it you could say
30:23
Speaker 2: the words radical Islamic extremists, call it out And no
30:28
Speaker 2: one seems to be.
30:29
Speaker 5: Able to do that now.
30:30
Speaker 2: I know the coalition has just woken up to it
30:32
Speaker 2: in the last couple of months post BONDI, but even
30:35
Speaker 2: the coalition, Andrew Hasty and a few others to one side,
30:40
Speaker 2: are unable to say the words what has happened in Canberra.
30:45
Speaker 14: Well, the thing we've got to remember is that all
30:47
Speaker 14: of these terrorists, including the terrorists that we've now seen
30:51
Speaker 14: in this country, have committed their atrocities in the name
30:56
Speaker 14: of Islam, and.
31:00
Speaker 1: The Islamic leaders.
31:04
Speaker 14: Are never prepared to take any responsibility for the crimes
31:09
Speaker 14: that are committed in the name of Islam. And this
31:13
Speaker 14: government seems to be absolutely terrified for all sorts of reasons,
31:18
Speaker 14: mostly political, of getting into a fight with the Islamic
31:23
Speaker 14: community leadership. Now, I'd just like to see if Muslim
31:32
Speaker 14: leaders want to see their religion respected, they'll try to
31:38
Speaker 14: ensure that these crimes are not committed in the name
31:41
Speaker 14: of Islam. And that's the problem. They are being committed
31:45
Speaker 14: in the name of Islam. And it's all very well
31:47
Speaker 14: to say this is a perversion of Islam. Well, the
31:51
Speaker 14: Islamic leadership has got to say that again and again
31:56
Speaker 14: and again and disown the people and the groups that
32:00
Speaker 14: are doing these terrible things.
32:02
Speaker 1: And that's what they just can't do.
32:04
Speaker 2: Much of these problem's imported, though, let's be honest, and okay,
32:08
Speaker 2: it may not be in some of these are young
32:11
Speaker 2: kids now born in Australia, but they're coming out of cultures,
32:16
Speaker 2: parents or grandparents that it imported hatred into this country.
32:19
Speaker 5: So what do we do about immigration?
32:20
Speaker 14: Well, I think that we've got to have a long
32:23
Speaker 14: hard look at immigration and multiculturalism policies, and I think
32:29
Speaker 14: we've got to do much more to reiterate the fact
32:34
Speaker 14: that anyone who is coming to this country with hate
32:37
Speaker 14: in their heart.
32:39
Speaker 1: Should not bother if you want to create a practical terms, well.
32:43
Speaker 14: In practical terms, it means that if someone wants a
32:47
Speaker 14: visa to come to this country for the long term,
32:51
Speaker 14: our immigration officials need to actually investigate that individual. And
32:56
Speaker 14: if it's pretty clear from their social media, from their denociations,
33:00
Speaker 14: from their profiles, that they support the Caliphate, that they
33:04
Speaker 14: want to see sharia law, well, frankly, don't come here.
33:08
Speaker 5: Go somewhere else, even if it's on family reunion.
33:11
Speaker 14: Even if it's on family reunion. I mean, countries have
33:16
Speaker 14: a right, and I would say a duty to keep
33:19
Speaker 14: their culture. And our culture is broadly Anglo Celtic. Our
33:25
Speaker 14: ethos is definitely Judeo Christian and we can't do anything
33:31
Speaker 14: here in this country that drastically changes that. And if
33:35
Speaker 14: you bring in lots of people who are hostile to
33:38
Speaker 14: the culture, who are hostile to the ethos, obviously you
33:43
Speaker 14: are creating trouble.
33:44
Speaker 1: And if it.
33:47
Speaker 14: Wasn't obvious before, it is surely obvious since the Bondai
33:51
Speaker 14: massacre that we have created unnecessary trouble for ourselves in
33:57
Speaker 14: this country and the way forward is to stop doing
34:00
Speaker 14: the things that cause the trouble and with the people
34:03
Speaker 14: who are already in Australia, make it absolutely crystal clear
34:08
Speaker 14: that it's Australian values that can't just be paid lift
34:13
Speaker 14: service to, but they've got to be meant and lived.
34:17
Speaker 5: I got to go. I mean, Tinler've got a break
34:18
Speaker 5: to two. You what listening to you now? I think that.
34:23
Speaker 2: Clarity in your comments exposes why the Libs have got
34:28
Speaker 2: such a problem with one nation because they're not clear.
34:32
Speaker 5: Voters are not clear where they stand on the big issues.
34:34
Speaker 2: Just quickly before we go, I know you love to surf.
34:38
Speaker 2: Around where you like to surf has been a couple
34:39
Speaker 2: of sharks. Do think it needs to happen there?
34:41
Speaker 14: Well, plainly, we've got to put people before sharks. And
34:45
Speaker 14: the spate of attacks for in just a few days
34:48
Speaker 14: in Sydney, it hasn't been caused by murky water.
34:51
Speaker 1: It's been caused by too many sharks.
34:54
Speaker 14: So let's have a shark cull and the best way
34:57
Speaker 14: to do that would be to.
34:58
Speaker 1: Bring back the commercial shark fissure.
35:00
Speaker 2: All right, there you go that I'll make news. Thank you,
35:02
Speaker 2: Tony haven't remarked the break. Concerns mounting over practices at
35:05
Speaker 2: gender clinics around the country. A perse clinic particularly under
35:09
Speaker 2: fire writing referrals for double mistectomies for teenage girls.
35:14
Speaker 5: More than that shortly.
35:20
Speaker 2: Welcome back if you watch the programer Now I coven extensively.
35:24
Speaker 2: The litanyue can controversial practices at gender clinics and children's
35:28
Speaker 2: hospitals across Australia and the wider world.
35:31
Speaker 5: Another of those.
35:32
Speaker 2: Being revealed in Perth at the Perth Children's Hospital, where
35:35
Speaker 2: double misstectomies are being enabled for teenage girls who identify
35:39
Speaker 2: as boys. You want the state labor governments trying to
35:42
Speaker 2: keep secret. The four year old modeler Care document reveals
35:46
Speaker 2: that the gender clinic at Perth Children's Hospital will connect
35:49
Speaker 2: under eighteen year old patients with private surgeons for what
35:53
Speaker 2: they call top surgery. The States Health Minister has revealed
35:57
Speaker 2: how many referrals have been made, and it's worth pointing
36:01
Speaker 2: out that nationally there's no accurate public data being collected
36:06
Speaker 2: or available on the extent of meystectomies.
36:09
Speaker 5: On trans children.
36:10
Speaker 2: Well, joining me now is another expert who's lent their
36:13
Speaker 2: voice to the chorus of people speaking up. Professor Gary
36:16
Speaker 2: Gilheld is a retired ped diutrition and researcher who also
36:21
Speaker 2: served as the Chief Medical Officer of Western Australia. He
36:24
Speaker 2: also directed the emergency department at the Princess Margaret Hospital
36:28
Speaker 2: for Children, which was the successor or the predecessor to
36:32
Speaker 2: the per Children's Hospital, which is now home to Agenda Clinic.
36:36
Speaker 2: Professor joins me now, Professor Gilheld, thank you, thank you,
36:41
Speaker 2: thank you for being on the show. But I think,
36:43
Speaker 2: more importantly for people around the country, thank you for
36:46
Speaker 2: lending of the weight of your experience and your good
36:50
Speaker 2: medical name to this debate. Because what we are talking here,
36:54
Speaker 2: and I am a woman obviously is irreversible surgery for women.
36:59
Speaker 2: How concern is that the Perth Children's Hospital is enabling this?
37:05
Speaker 15: Oh, thanks, Peter. Look, I think it's very concerning, and
37:09
Speaker 15: to be clear, you know, there's no double mistectomies for
37:13
Speaker 15: mine that's going on at the hospital or in the
37:14
Speaker 15: public system. But as you said, it's clear from their
37:17
Speaker 15: guidelines that they do enable this in terms of doing
37:22
Speaker 15: it in the private sector. On a personal level, I
37:26
Speaker 15: just recently a friend of mine, colleague, he wrote to
37:29
Speaker 15: me a Paul that young child had been referred to
37:31
Speaker 15: him at fourteen. It had a double mistectomy. She wasn't
37:34
Speaker 15: referred for gender issues to him. And what that means
37:38
Speaker 15: is that child at fourteen was also on cross sex hormones,
37:42
Speaker 15: trying to approximate, you know, what a male is, what
37:44
Speaker 15: a boy is. There's no evidence at all really that
37:49
Speaker 15: the surgery or the cross sex hormones in the long
37:53
Speaker 15: term are going to help this confused child. But there's
37:56
Speaker 15: growing evidence that these treatments may well do that. They're
38:01
Speaker 15: making her a patient for life, should be on medication
38:03
Speaker 15: for life. If she continues on this path, we know
38:07
Speaker 15: it may have effects on her bone density, on her longevity,
38:12
Speaker 15: but certainly on her fertility.
38:15
Speaker 1: And sexual function.
38:16
Speaker 15: So to make the obvious point that if a child
38:20
Speaker 15: or young adolescent cannot drive a car, they can't vote,
38:24
Speaker 15: they can't fight for the country, they can't have a beer.
38:27
Speaker 15: But we really think that they've consented, you know, that
38:30
Speaker 15: they can actually consent to this. So yeah, I'm appalled.
38:38
Speaker 2: If this model of care document is four years old,
38:42
Speaker 2: then it's.
38:43
Speaker 5: Predates the cast review.
38:45
Speaker 2: It predates the experience of Tavastock in the United Kingdom.
38:50
Speaker 2: That alone should say it subject to review and revision.
38:54
Speaker 5: Why has that not happened?
38:57
Speaker 15: Yeah, Look, I think for people who don't know the
39:00
Speaker 15: Cash report, doctor Hillary cass Well regarded pediatricians, she did
39:05
Speaker 15: review it is the definitive look the evidence base looking
39:09
Speaker 15: at this and basically what she found was that there
39:12
Speaker 15: is very little evidence and there's a lot of problems
39:14
Speaker 15: with it and it caused this sort of treatment for
39:17
Speaker 15: people under eighteen to be banned in England. And I
39:21
Speaker 15: should also say around the world, more and more countries
39:25
Speaker 15: are shutting it down. In Australia here Cash. You know,
39:29
Speaker 15: it was primarily about Britain, but she did look at
39:31
Speaker 15: Australia as well, and I think in one sense she
39:34
Speaker 15: looked at our clinics including Perth and Melbourne and so on.
39:37
Speaker 15: I think she rated in one thing nineteen out of
39:39
Speaker 15: one hundred. You know, a very poor evidence base. And
39:43
Speaker 15: people are arguing and saying that, you know, but it
39:46
Speaker 15: doesn't apply to Australia. Well, we all know that. You know,
39:49
Speaker 15: British society, Australian society, our legal system, our medical system,
39:54
Speaker 15: very very similar, and so they have to come up
39:56
Speaker 15: with that because essentially they can't, although they try that
40:00
Speaker 15: that to criticize it. So I think we're really overdue
40:03
Speaker 15: for a proper review to stop this, because you know,
40:07
Speaker 15: children are being harmed every day in this country.
40:12
Speaker 2: Just a quick one, I mean, and I've got experience
40:16
Speaker 2: of young girls close to me who have had anorexia
40:20
Speaker 2: at some time. If a twelve or thirteen year old
40:22
Speaker 2: presents with anorexia and they have a very low body
40:25
Speaker 2: weight but they think they're fat, the medical fraternity would
40:29
Speaker 2: swoop in and give them all the sorts of supports
40:33
Speaker 2: to disabuse them of that view, to help them regain
40:37
Speaker 2: a healthy weight to deal with their mental health issues.
40:40
Speaker 2: It wouldn't join in on this idea that an underweight.
40:44
Speaker 1: Kid is fat.
40:45
Speaker 5: It wouldn't involve.
40:46
Speaker 2: The parents and make the parents see what they can't see.
40:50
Speaker 2: Why do we allow the system if a young person
40:54
Speaker 2: says I'm a boy when I'm a girl, Why do
40:57
Speaker 2: we allow the system to believe the young person in
41:01
Speaker 2: the face of biological reality.
41:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, you're absolutely right, Peter.
41:07
Speaker 15: But an even more telling example, A lot of people
41:09
Speaker 15: find this strange, but there are some people who actually
41:11
Speaker 15: identify as amputees, and they actually go to the medical
41:15
Speaker 15: profession to say, identify as an amputee, will you please,
41:18
Speaker 15: you know, take off this particular limb. Now clearly we
41:22
Speaker 15: don't say, of course, you know, we understand you're an amputee,
41:24
Speaker 15: will do that? You know you assume that person has
41:26
Speaker 15: a mental issue. So and answer your question. It's because
41:30
Speaker 15: this is not evidence base. It's an ideology really, and
41:34
Speaker 15: a lot of this is obviously based on social contagion.
41:37
Speaker 15: I mean young We've always known that young boys three
41:42
Speaker 15: or four years of age very rarely identified as girls.
41:44
Speaker 15: We know that middle aged men often to a great
41:47
Speaker 15: lesser extent, dress up as women identify as women. But
41:49
Speaker 15: this is a completely new cohort of young adolescents predominantly women.
41:54
Speaker 15: If you look at the figures, like ten twenty years ago,
41:56
Speaker 15: maybe you had two or three of these people. Now
41:58
Speaker 15: they're in their hundreds, if not thousands, presenting. And it
42:01
Speaker 15: coincides with social media. We also know that historically the
42:05
Speaker 15: cohort who are most prone to social contagion teenage girls.
42:11
Speaker 15: And so you put all that together and you and
42:14
Speaker 15: then when they turn up, instead of having a sort
42:17
Speaker 15: of a broad look at why these young people confuse.
42:22
Speaker 15: There's a sort of default that if they say, give
42:24
Speaker 15: a convincing case that I think I'm in the wrong body,
42:27
Speaker 15: then basically they must be believed and affirm so called
42:31
Speaker 15: you know. Now, look, I know this sounds strip, but
42:33
Speaker 15: if you've got a perfectly healthy body and you think
42:36
Speaker 15: you're in the wrong body, the wrong sex, you know
42:38
Speaker 15: your problems not in your pants, you know your problems
42:40
Speaker 15: in your head.
42:43
Speaker 5: Got on.
42:45
Speaker 2: I wish all strength to your Honestly, we've got to
42:47
Speaker 2: keep fighting this debate. I think this is a philidimide.
42:50
Speaker 2: It's worse than that, but at the forlidimide of our generation.
42:53
Speaker 2: Professor Gilhot, thank you for your time and thank you
42:57
Speaker 2: for your easy. As I said, it's bray putting a
42:59
Speaker 2: head about the parapet on that.
43:00
Speaker 5: Issue after the break.
43:01
Speaker 2: The Queensland government is not going to support any national
43:04
Speaker 2: gun buyback scheme. But what about the Prime Minister today
43:08
Speaker 2: trying to blame Islamic.
43:11
Speaker 5: Terror on Scott Morrison.
43:17
Speaker 2: All right, let's just jump into things with my panel
43:19
Speaker 2: joining me in our page Research Center Chief executive Jared
43:23
Speaker 2: Holland and Liberal MP in a South Australian. Beautiful seat,
43:26
Speaker 2: Tony Passon. Gents welcome. I'll get to gun reforms. We've
43:30
Speaker 2: had Queensland, the Government of Queensland pull out int Tasmania.
43:35
Speaker 5: Weary of them as well. We'll get to that in
43:37
Speaker 5: a moment.
43:37
Speaker 2: But first to day, the Prime Minister was blaming everybody
43:40
Speaker 2: else but himself for the anti semitism crisis.
43:44
Speaker 5: Have a listen.
43:46
Speaker 11: All governments should have done better, that is my point.
43:49
Speaker 11: It Did the Morrison government appoint a special voy to
43:53
Speaker 11: combat anti Semitism?
43:55
Speaker 10: No?
43:56
Speaker 11: Did they established the Joint Operation bringing together the IFP
44:01
Speaker 11: and ASIO to combat acts of any Semitism?
44:05
Speaker 8: No?
44:07
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the Morrison government didn't. The Avid government
44:09
Speaker 2: did it, The Howard government did it. The Gillida Rudd
44:12
Speaker 2: government didn't because they didn't need to, Joe.
44:15
Speaker 5: That's the problem for the Prime minister. We can't avoid that.
44:18
Speaker 4: You're exactly right, Peter.
44:19
Speaker 6: And the fact is the Prime Minister has overseen the
44:22
Speaker 6: serious breakdown and social cohesion that has occurred in our country,
44:25
Speaker 6: particularly in the last couple of years now. A big
44:27
Speaker 6: driver that has been mass migration, but a big driver
44:31
Speaker 6: of that, of course, has been the fact that we've
44:32
Speaker 6: been unable to name and call out and investigate Islamic terrorism.
44:37
Speaker 6: Now we know that ASIO has had funding stripped from it,
44:39
Speaker 6: We know that they were given directives not to fully
44:43
Speaker 6: investigate some of these cases, particularly in regards to the
44:46
Speaker 6: Free Palestine movement, and so quite frankly, the Prime Minister
44:49
Speaker 6: has blood on his hands. This huge explosion in antisemitic
44:53
Speaker 6: protesting has occurred on his watch. It has occurred as
44:56
Speaker 6: his government has chosen to recognize the state of Palestine
45:00
Speaker 6: when they had no functioning government themselves. It is his
45:03
Speaker 6: government that has constantly dog whistled towards the radical Islamists
45:08
Speaker 6: to shore up votes in those Western Sydney seats. And
45:11
Speaker 6: so quite frankly, to pass the buck onto Scott Morrison
45:13
Speaker 6: four or five years into your premiership is just well,
45:16
Speaker 6: it's deeply immoral, it's unresponsible, it's irresponsible, and I think
45:20
Speaker 6: it's a Prime minister who's flailing as he's increasingly losing
45:23
Speaker 6: the confidence of the electorate.
45:27
Speaker 2: Tona, give me a take on the gun laws. You're
45:29
Speaker 2: in a very significant sized regional rural seat. How's this
45:34
Speaker 2: gone down with your community?
45:38
Speaker 7: Well, it hasn't gone down well, Peter. Reality is all Australians,
45:42
Speaker 7: but particularly those in rural electrics like mine, know that
45:45
Speaker 7: we don't have a gun problem in this country. We've
45:48
Speaker 7: got a problem with radical Islam. And to conflate these
45:52
Speaker 7: two issues effectively, to address the method rather than the motive,
45:58
Speaker 7: and to effectively seek a hoodwink the Australian people and
46:01
Speaker 7: gaslight legitimate and licensed, law abiding firearm owners is something
46:07
Speaker 7: that has absolutely got them white hot with rage.
46:13
Speaker 4: They know what's going on here.
46:14
Speaker 7: They know we've got a Prime Minister who, as we
46:17
Speaker 7: just heard, is looking to apportion blame anywhere he can,
46:20
Speaker 7: but he's also looking to divert attention from his failures,
46:23
Speaker 7: his failure of national leadership that allowed this rising tide
46:27
Speaker 7: of anti seventism to fester in this country rather than
46:31
Speaker 7: to be addressed with the laws that existed before this week.
46:37
Speaker 2: It's passing strange to me, Jared that if Matt Kean,
46:42
Speaker 2: who now runs the government's renewables put, had his way,
46:47
Speaker 2: we'd probably be in blackouts and New South Wales because
46:50
Speaker 2: the giant coal fired power station Rari under him was
46:55
Speaker 2: meant to close last year and announce it today that
46:58
Speaker 2: it must remain operation until at least twenty twenty nine
47:02
Speaker 2: to give us the energy security that a first world
47:05
Speaker 2: economy demands.
47:08
Speaker 6: Shocked about that, Look, not really, energy security is national security,
47:13
Speaker 6: and we've spent the last ten years, rather than find
47:15
Speaker 6: a shore up energy security, trying to shut down our
47:19
Speaker 6: most reliable power generation we have and replace it with
47:22
Speaker 6: intermittent and unreliable power generation. Now, in the case of
47:25
Speaker 6: arah Ring, this was never going to be closed before
47:28
Speaker 6: was ready. Quite simply, the grid just doesn't have enough
47:30
Speaker 6: baseload capacity to shore it up should it leave. But
47:34
Speaker 6: also what's really exciting about this is there's no extra subsidies,
47:37
Speaker 6: there are no extra directions coming from government. This is
47:41
Speaker 6: a commercial decision. These cul five power plants do still
47:44
Speaker 6: provide value for their owners and hints really that if
47:48
Speaker 6: we were to build more of them and invest in
47:50
Speaker 6: updating the ones that we already have, we could increase
47:53
Speaker 6: our energy security in this country. So I think the
47:55
Speaker 6: renewable role out we all know that that is long pass.
47:57
Speaker 6: It's used by day. They will keep urrahing going. We
48:00
Speaker 6: need to invest in upgrading our other ones and maybe
48:03
Speaker 6: build a couple more while we're at it.
48:06
Speaker 2: Another case, Tony passon about three and a half million
48:09
Speaker 2: dollars of NDIS fraud. Someone has been charged. Look at
48:13
Speaker 2: what's happening in the United States, and the fraud are
48:16
Speaker 2: massive scale with programs in Minnesota. Is that what's happening
48:22
Speaker 2: here in Australia? Do you think I mean tip of
48:23
Speaker 2: the iceberg stuff with this, this charging of an individual.
48:30
Speaker 7: I fear it very much, is Peter. This scheme now
48:33
Speaker 7: runs to fifty two billion dollars a year in expenditure.
48:36
Speaker 7: That's a billion dollars a week. My background in the
48:42
Speaker 7: criminal law, I know exactly how serious and organized crime thinks.
48:46
Speaker 1: This is the softest of soft targets.
48:49
Speaker 7: And I fear very much that serious and organized crime
48:53
Speaker 7: has penetrated this scheme. And I don't think anyone, given
48:59
Speaker 7: what I read about this investigation, should think that this
49:03
Speaker 7: was just an individual rogue operator who happened to come
49:07
Speaker 7: across a scheme that benefited him to the tune of
49:10
Speaker 7: three point five million dollars. There is and I think
49:13
Speaker 7: it would be naive to suggest there's not serious and
49:16
Speaker 7: organized crime that's penetrated the NDIS and we've got to
49:19
Speaker 7: be wary of it.
49:22
Speaker 2: I bet I bet you're truthful there. I love to
49:25
Speaker 2: go back to that one again. I'll just say thank
49:26
Speaker 2: you gentlemen, thank you your time.
49:28
Speaker 5: That's it for me. Looking forward to your company tomorrow.
49:30
Speaker 5: Is Andrew