Transcript

Air Force One · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
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I'm dead in a war for people dying. This isn't war.
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You just murdered an unarmed woman. You murdered a hundred thousand Iraqis to
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save a nickel on a gallon of gas.
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Are going to lecture me about the Rosa War? Don't!
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Music.
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We'll be right back.
0:55
Get off my plane hey buddy welcome back to another exciting episode of citizen
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frame and the continuation of plane month citizen plane oh my god who knew though
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planes would be pretty good movies yeah well there's there's a lot you get through with them,
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So this one is I saw
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Air Force One Back in 1997 I actually saw
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this with my mom and dad in Belfast At the
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movie house when it opened up The one on the Dublin Road Yeah I loved that cinema
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and I was really sorry to see it go Yeah it sucks It was good cinema Now it's
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going to be some fucking tech building Some modern day Some modern day tech building Yeah.
1:43
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot, as the song goes.
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Yeah, exactly. Was it Joni Mitchell? Yes, Joni Mitchell.
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And I think it goes without saying it has Harrison Ford in it,
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who is the greatest actor of all time, and a director.
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Let's talk about our director here. We got Wolfgang Peterson at the helm here.
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I love Wolfgang Peterson.
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Sally just passed away a couple years back of the age of 81.
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One, he made Faye claim to fame with a little movie called Das Boot. Yes.
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Wonderful film. You guys have to see it. It's about a German sub being attacked
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by the enemies during World War II, but we got to realize the enemies are us. Yeah.
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And the wonderful thing about the film, you really cared about these characters
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and you really liked them.
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But at the end of the movie, you realize, wait a minute, these are the bad guys. Yeah.
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Well, it's the human story type thing, you know, So the humanity of,
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you know, regular, I'm not talking about the Nazi party here.
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I'm talking about the regular German soldiers during the war. Yes.
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Yes. Doing their job. Yeah, exactly. But I think there was also a series,
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but apparently Wolfgang Peterson's
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father was a submarine captain in real life or something like that.
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So he always had an interest in that sort of type of thing.
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That's cool. I didn't realize that. It'll be his, he also worked with,
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I also just introduced us to Jürgen Prochnow, who I like as an actor as well.
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He's obviously got a small part in this because of that.
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Jürgen Wolfgang Peterson went on to do massive hit, The NeverEnding Story.
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He do a wonderful underrated film.
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I know our listeners probably would have seen it because they're fans,
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but Enemy Mine, you guys want to see a wonderful film.
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It's so good. of Dennis Quaid and Louis Gossett Jr.
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Just an amazing film. We are definitely going to get to it.
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He did the awesome In the Line of Fire with Cliff Eastwood and Jorgen Prochnow.
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He did Outbreak, which we did on the podcast with Dustin Hoffman.
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He did The Wonderful Perfect Storm.
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He did Troy and Poseidon. I mean, it's really the last two didn't do well,
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and that's what pretty much ended his career, unfortunately.
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But I love Troy. I think that was a wonderful film. But Wolfgang,
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Yeah, it's definitely up there with my 80s, 90s directors.
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This also reminds me, in the 90s, you had three directors that were really A-listers,
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and they can hit after hit.
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You had Jan Dubon, Fresh Off of Speed and Twisters.
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You had Paul Verhoeven, who Total Recall, Robocop.
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Then he did Basic Instinct, Big Hit. But then he, and then it seems like all
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these directors kind of hit a roadblock, whereas things didn't work out for them.
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You had Paul Verheer, which Downfall started with Showgirls.
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Then he did Hollow Man, which I actually enjoyed. I liked Hollow Man.
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Starship Troopers. But even despite it not being a hit, it's now a cult hit.
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And then you had Yann DuPont, who did The Haunting, which was terrible.
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He did Tomb Raider II, which was terrible.
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And then he had Wolfgang, who sadly Troy and Poseidon didn't do well.
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So when the 2000s hit, their careers kind of took a hit.
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And their movies weren't as well received, which happens with a lot of directors.
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Yeah, I think. But those three directors are A-listers in my book.
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I think you hit the nail on the head there, and I was just about to say,
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I think where they hit the roadblock was basically, and why,
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was because the 90s ended.
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You know, the 90s, certainly with doing these last few plane movies,
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you know, sort of highlighted to me even more, you know, the type of aesthetic
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and style of 90s Hollywood blockbuster-type films, which we'll get to with this review.
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But yes back to the Jürgen guy I would say he also has an appearance in Twin
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Peaks Fire Walk With Me which we reviewed actually.
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There you go. Go back to Air Force One. Fuck me.
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It was originally written for Kevin Costner, who I could see in the role,
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actually. But he had to bow out because he was doing that wonderful piece of shit, the postman.
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Jesus. I think they missed the trick by not casting Steven Seagal.
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Yeah. Too big. Told you. Yeah. John Malkovich turned it down.
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He was going to be the lead, which I don't see. I can't see John Malkovich playing the president. Well.
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And he did turn it down. He made the right call. He ended up doing Con Air.
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Yeah, he turned it down for Con Air.
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Yeah. But let's jump into this bad boy as we talk Air Force One.
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We've got Harrison Ford, Wendy Krucian, Alexander Berkeley, Gary Oldman,
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Glenn Close, Dean Stockwell, Pell Guillefoyle, William H.
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Macy, Tom Everett, Jürgen Prochnow, Donna Pollack, and the Wiss master himself. Audrey DeVolf.
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That's right. And they all play President Marshall, Mrs.
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Marshall, Agent Gibbs, Ivan, the Vice President, Defense Secretary,
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Chief of Staff, Major Caldwell, NSA Advisor, the General, the Press Secretary, and the Whistmaster.
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Yeah. So there you go. And I'll tell you what, what a wonderful cast. It is a very strong cast.
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Yeah. Dean Stockwell, Glenn Close. And then you've got upper comings like Xander
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Berkeley, Paul Guillefoyle, William H. Macy.
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And just a great group. and we'll start off I will say this,
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the similarities to this film and Executive Season are pretty I said that in
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the last podcast where I guarantee Wolfgang saw this film and says we need to
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do something like that I don't know,
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I mean there are certain trends that go about Hollywood and that's always been the case,
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so I think around this sort of mid 90's point plane,
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action films were a thing, but yes there is most definitely leave a lot of similarities.
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And I like Executive Recipient. You've got the opening, you've got the military
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team going in, but instead of getting nerve gas, they're trying to get this
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dictator out of power. I think it's Kaz...
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Kaz... Kaz... Kaz... Kaz... No, it's not. No, it's not. It's Kazistani.
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Yeah, is it right? Well, as soon as I heard Kazistan, I was waiting for Borat to pop up.
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No, it's Kazistani. They kind of make it up. He plays this leader,
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dictator, ruthless killer man, and a team goes in to get him.
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And of course, Gary Oldman's team infiltrates Air Force One because they want him released.
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So there's your story, kind of similarity to executive decision.
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The film, everything kind of, 20 minutes, 20 minutes into it,
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you get him out, you get him imprisoned, the dictator.
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And then you got, you introduce ourselves to the president and he gives this
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big speech and about how we're not going to bow down to terrorists anymore.
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We should have got this man before, before he ended up, he made some pretty,
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I see pretty good speech where he says.
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Yeah, he goes off script. Yeah. And everyone's not happy about it.
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And he says, makes the comment, we're not going to bow down on a terrorist anymore.
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We should have jumped in sooner to help Russia.
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It's sort of setting up his character, basically that he's a good man at heart,
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but he's a bit of a maverick.
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He don't play by the rules, you
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know, that sort of thing. It's basically setting him up as a character.
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Yeah, but what I like about it, it could come out hammy, right?
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But it does play a major role when his kid has a gun to her head.
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In terms of the script, it does make sense, yes. And he ends up having to eat his words. Yeah.
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So I do play on his vulnerability. He's not this G.I. Joe, blah, blah.
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Well, he's not Rambo, even though he's a Vietnam veteran, which is convenient for the plot.
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And he's got the Medal of Honor, and he was a helicopter pilot.
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He's more of a grounded Rambo. Yeah, exactly.
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He's on board, man. He is grounded, Rambo.
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Well, yeah, it is a bit sort of, you know, there are leaps in sort of believability,
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but it's a Hollywood action film, you know.
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Yeah, you got to let, but you can say the same thing with Executive Decision. Oh, absolutely.
9:51
They're films, they're films. Yeah. So, but there's a difference between watching
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Cobra, which is just dub fun, and you're rolling your eyes with it and laughing at it, but enjoying it.
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And actually enjoying this one and appreciating the story.
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And so you accept the fantasy elements that do come to play.
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Well, it's played straight.
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It's played dead straight. And actually, as a viewer, I was hoping for more
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sort of tongue-in-cheekness.
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But I think the whole one-liners and tongue-in-cheek silliness wouldn't really
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work with Ford in this type of role.
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But we had that already with Con Air and with executives.
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Yeah. Even executive was a little more grounded.
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It, it did have a little banter in it. This one plays it dead straight and also because it's rated R.
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I'm surprised that whenever I heard it was rated R actually.
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It's incredibly violent. Yes, the killings are very violent,
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but there's not much swearing or anything like that.
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But the killings are pretty... Yeah, that's all you need. Yeah.
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I don't think it's... You do realize violence has to be rated too,
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Trevor. Of course, of course.
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But I think it murdered a 15 certificate, not an 18.
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What, he blows a woman's head off? You don't see that? It doesn't matter. It's off screen.
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It's still very intense and terrifying. No, I know.
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But that does create that tension. Terror does get ratings as well.
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I know that. This movie is R.
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This movie is R. Yeah. You need so much help.
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You need so much fucking help. I can't believe that I'm actually calling.
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This is probably the first time in my life that I've disagreed with an 18th certificate.
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It's just like, you know, dude, get off my podcast. See the line that we're
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going to talk about later on?
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That actually reminded me of Ghost. Get off my train.
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I love the whole introduction. About 20 minutes. We know that the president's
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a good guy. He's a family man.
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But I really like the boy Ivan played by the incredibly wonderful scene stealer, Gary Oldman. Yes.
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And the great thing about him,
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when he's introduced with his team of reporters, he goes onto the plane.
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He's so nice and gracious and he
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plays like a fan boy oh i'm so excited to be here
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and he has really good banter with the press secretary who he's
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about to blow her head off yeah and it just shows how vile and how angry this
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man is because he gary oldman as we know how great gary oldman is he could turn
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it on and off just like that yeah and he does he's he's he is the best even over my boy,
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Harrison Ford, this man steals the show.
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He, uh, he is a little homie, I would say, uh, his Russian accent is a bit,
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almost Hollywood villain cliche, you know, the mother Russia,
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you know, obviously Gary Oldman did it better than me, you know.
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But I mean, yeah, he's Gary Oldman.
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Yes, he's an excellent actor. And I actually read up, apparently he,
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on set when they were making this film, he was just turning it off and on.
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There was no real big preparation.
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You know, he's very good, you know, actor overall, you know,
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obviously. Yeah, he did have to be one of those fucking actors who goes into full character.
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Yeah. And him and Harrison Ford had great fucking chemistry, I heard.
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And really got along. And really beat the shit out of each other on set. Yeah. Which was fun.
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But I don't think... I'm going to disagree with you. This isn't hammy.
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There's some presidential stuff that's hammy. I'll give you that.
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Even the line, get off my plane.
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But his performance, I don't think it's hammy. I think it's dark and disturbing.
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A little bit. A little bit.
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You know, whenever he loses his tamper and stuff, you know...
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No! Oh, come on. That's like him with The Professional.
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Just when he goes, that's Gary in the 90s, man. Yes, I know.
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I think it's maybe because I'm so used to him being like that in 90s films,
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if you know what I mean, you know, playing that sort of role.
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And the likes of Leon, the professional and stuff.
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I'm not complaining, you know what I mean? It's Gary Oldman doing his thing as a villain.
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When the takeover happens, Xander Berkeley is obviously the mole.
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The inside guy. Aging Gibbs.
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Now, he was young. His career was young in this point of his career.
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But if he was cast in now in that role, we'd know right away,
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because he always plays bad guys ever since this movie.
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He plays sort of sleazeball types very well, actually, Xander Berkeley, and Candyman as well.
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You know, where he's like the partner. Boyfriend. Who's unfaithful, yeah.
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And he's having a affair with the younger woman and stuff. I forgot he was his
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Candyman. Yeah. He was in the X-Files as well. And he's in lots of roles like that.
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You know. Here we go. X-Files. I got to throw that in there.
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Well, there's so many fucking actors in this movie. They've all been in something.
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Exactly. Yeah. We even have Hal from Quantum Leap. You know.
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Yeah. Dean Stockwell. And Jerry Lundergard from Fargo.
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Is he in it? Where? What do you mean to me? Is he? Oh, yes, yes,
15:00
yes. I forgot his character. Oh, yeah.
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But the whole takeover scene is just so fun. And it's accompanied by Jerry Goldsmith,
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who's a really wonderful scorer here.
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And it's just the whole take. And he's very brutal. I mean, when you see Gibbs
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shooting his own men, pretty much point blank, he's in the face.
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And the whole takeover, trying to get the president to the escape pod.
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You think he's escaped? Clearly he doesn't.
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To just the intent. Oh, oh, oh, it's worthless. I love, Gary Oldman's performance
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is so good because he's got to get up now.
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After the president's escaped, he's got to get up to the pilots,
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take over, because they're trying to land the plane.
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And there's a great line by one of the pilots. He just says,
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we're landing this plane no matter what.
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And the courage of this, just that one small part he had, the courage of that pilot alone.
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And you got Gary Oldman trying to shoot the door down before they land.
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And he's got to put that little C4 on the thing and he's going to blow it up.
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And you can see Gary Oldman's hand shaking when he's doing it because he's so
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into the character he's just robbing in anger to get to that door.
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It is an intense whole opening sequence to get to the actual table.
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Much more so than executive decision, the plane takeover.
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As you even pointed out actually last week when we were talking about executive
16:19
decision because I mean it's pretty brutal and they're just Gary Oldman and
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Witchmaster and the gang are basically killing all around him yeah and that's
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what we said about there was no peril in the last one and this one they show,
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this man will kill and he says it he says I will kill somebody every half hour
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yeah until my general is released the tension is ramped up,
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Yeah. And you know, he's going to do it. It's, it's, and that's where it brings you in.
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And of course you've got the, the people on the ground in the white house.
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That's more coming to hand me part where the defense, the secretary of defense
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is arguing with the vice president who's in charge.
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And they all kind of don't know. I'm like, did you guys know this?
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That's based on reality. I was reading up on that. Oh, I know. I know it is.
17:08
After Ronald Reagan, there was an attempt to assassinate Ronald Reagan.
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That actually happened?
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I mean, where there was this disagreement, you know, if he was to die,
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who's actually in charge here?
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Well, no, there's all these differences. This was the problem.
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They didn't know if he was dead. He's missing. Yes. Is he still the president?
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Is he incapacitated? Is he vulnerable? Is he dead?
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There's all these different what-ifs, and certain people would take over during those what-ifs. Yeah.
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Yeah. If he's incapacitated, he can't make a decision for himself.
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It goes to the secondary defense, I believe.
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But, yeah, that was the argument through the whole kind of film.
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The Dean Stockwell character was a little bit, a little over the top with his
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we'll kill him, we get him. Rah, rah, rah.
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I have no doubt about it. I've never worked in the likes of a White House or
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government administration.
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But I would imagine you would get people like that. But yes,
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they have, obviously, for dramatic reasons, they have to play it up a bit, you know.
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So I was fine with that. And I liked Dean Stockwell. So yeah,
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no problem. You know, all the actors they cast are awesome. I have nothing against them.
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But I liked the executive decision you had really smart.
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We talked about A, B, you know, and C.
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Yeah. They tell us what they're going to do and they show us what they're going to do.
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And I do like, they do that here technically with the ground crew at the White
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House, especially where they find out he's alive. so he's probably on the plane.
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But Gary Oldman, Ivan, doesn't know that. Yes. So they don't want him to know that.
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So it's a game of cards here, and they're rolling the dice to try to play off
18:51
him or stall him as best they can to figure out where he actually is.
18:58
It's good cat and mouse kind of wits. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly in terms
19:05
of the tension overall, it's definitely an improvement from executive decision,
19:12
which I liked and I like David Suchet and stuff.
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It's a different type of performance by David Suchet, written differently and stuff.
19:19
But yes, certainly the tension does work for this.
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When, uh, the president, the VP calls the Russian president and goes, can you release?
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And it's a good scene too, because the Russian, he wants to do it for him,
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but he can't unless he knows the president's alive.
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And this is before they realize that he is. Yeah. And the Russian president
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does say, if he's alive, I will do it.
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Yeah. And the, and she goes, and then when, when they find out he is alive and
19:48
we find out that he ends up doing it.
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Yes. He regrets it, but he says, okay, I said, I do it.
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I do it. So I like the, the, the loyalty and they kept in true to the characters.
20:00
Well, also as well, in real world terms, you know, this was around the period
20:05
of the end of the Cold War and there was bridges being built between America and Russia.
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So it sort of does tie in with that. I love when he starts killing things.
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It just, even his tension. So when he goes into the room and he sees the wife
20:21
and kid of the president, Ivan, and then he got the, any kind of these films,
20:25
we had it with the last film with the senator,
20:28
any guy who volunteers to walk up and talk to, negotiate in any of these films.
20:33
Oh, they're fucked. They're dead.
20:35
And I do love when the NSA advisor walks up to him. Listen, I'm here. I'm the NSA advisor.
20:42
I'll talk. I'll negotiate for you. Yeah. Blows his head off.
20:46
It was like JT Walsh in executive decision. You know his days are numbered.
20:49
You know what I mean? Yes. Once you start getting cocky with,
20:52
especially if you're just a supporting character, once you start getting cocky
20:56
with the bad guys, yeah, you're on your way out, mate.
21:02
And you see it, he blows his head off. And then Ivan gets back on the phone.
21:07
Okay, I just killed your NSA advisor.
21:09
You know what? He's a very good negotiator. He bought you another half hour. Yeah.
21:14
It's a great. and he does it so straight because he was going to be like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
21:20
He'll hammer that Arnie was up for the Harrison Ford role here did you know that?
21:27
If he couldn't do it or something like that, yeah, they had other suggestions. Yeah.
21:33
I think Arnie would be too big. Well, it would be, it would become a bit of a pantomime.
21:38
It would be a different, very much a different type of film in terms of tone.
21:42
If it was Arnie, you know, there would be one-liners.
21:46
You know, get off my plane, get to the plane.
21:55
Oh my god it's President Schwarzenegger yeah it would be a very different film let's just say,
22:03
and this is silly you know generally but you know for what it is it's played
22:09
straight but yet it wouldn't be the same with Arnie I uh I'm gonna make a,
22:16
I'm gonna make a statement here people are gonna boo me go ahead people are
22:20
gonna boo me We're going to boo you anyway, but go ahead. So why not?
22:24
It's early in the morning. I got my coffee. Maybe I'm just too tired,
22:28
but I'm going to say something here. Hold on.
22:30
There's a lot of tension here building up to this statement,
22:32
you know? That's right. That's right. Yeah. We've got Peterson.
22:37
Okay. So there's a scene where Ivan takes the daughter and mother up to the
22:44
pilot room, whatever it is. The cabin type thing, yeah. The cab, yeah.
22:49
The heart of the plane. And he's talking to him. He's talking to the daughter about this is passion.
22:54
This is blah, blah. He's really selling it, you know. And the girl looks at
22:57
him. You're nothing like my father.
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Blah, blah, blah. He gives this big speech.
23:03
And then he kisses her on the forehead. He's like, fucking creepy.
23:07
And I have to say, and John Milkovich's performance in The Line of Fire. Yeah.
23:13
And this performance by Gary Oldman.
23:17
Is up there. Not as good. I'm saying that now, people.
23:21
But I think it's up there with Alan Rickman's Hans Gruber.
23:26
These two characters, both those villains in both Wolfgang's films steal the
23:31
show, and they're very good.
23:32
I would say that Hans Gruber is more of a pantomime villain.
23:38
With Oldman here, he's more intense and serious. But yes, that scene with the
23:42
daughter, I would say that,
23:43
and I don't like having a puppet child actor because they're just kids,
23:46
but the daughter's pretty cringeworthy but it is quite an intense scene you
23:52
know you know when he's talking you know yeah he's got the Russian accent and
23:56
he's talking about you know his motives and stuff for doing this but yeah I
24:01
mean it's Oldman and he can play intense very well the,
24:07
scene where where the president finally gets the phone he's looking for phones
24:14
and he's he gets the white house on the, on,
24:19
on the line and he, but he can't talk to him because wish master is there to get him. Yeah, exactly.
24:26
And he,
24:27
So he's, but I liked how he's trying again, Wolfgang likes to,
24:32
to use a lot of similarities to what he does in other films.
24:37
He did something similar to this one, Clint Eastwood and in,
24:41
in light of fire. So he got the president. He's on the phone.
24:44
He's on the phone, but the terrorist thinks he's talking to him and not,
24:50
he doesn't think he doesn't know the phone exists. He doesn't know that.
24:54
He's talking to actually the white house. They think he's a secret service guy.
24:58
He's telling them, shoot at the plane.
25:01
Shoot at the plane and don't worry. We have measures. It wouldn't hurt us,
25:06
but it would just shake us up a bit because he needs the plane to move so he
25:09
can get the weapon off the wishmaster. Yeah.
25:12
Well, they did the same thing in the light of fire. When John Malkovich has
25:17
Clint Eastwood down and Clint Eastwood's on the ground and everything's dark
25:22
and the snipers can't see who's where, what.
25:25
He's on his, he's got a little mic and he says, just shoot, just shoot, but aim high.
25:32
Yeah. You know, he's kind of giving them clues how to shoot them.
25:35
So he kind of does that here. And I do like the how they play on that.
25:38
I've seen stuff like that in several films, you know, where they're on the line
25:42
to someone but the bad guys don't know it.
25:45
But so they're like speaking in code to them. But yeah, it's sort of yeah.
25:50
What film? If you say Doctor Who X-Files, I'll beat the shit out of you.
25:55
Whoa, a threat of violence. I'm trying to think off the top of my head,
25:59
but it does seem a similar type thing to me.
26:03
See, now you're just guessing. No, I think I've seen it similar somewhere before.
26:07
Maybe. Why don't you just go, wow, Kieran, that's an amazing observation.
26:10
Well, I was actually agreeing with you.
26:12
And it's the same director. I was agreeing with you. I can't believe you put that together.
26:18
I was agreeing with you, and you threatened me with violence.
26:20
That's the bottom line. You know?
26:23
Get out my podcast. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
26:27
You know what? It did cringe at. It's not a bad scene up until this point.
26:32
Whenever, eventually, President Marshal Harrison Ford gets into this room where
26:37
they're all sort of kept hostage and then he has the idea, actually, I think it's William H.
26:43
Macy, Jerry Lundegaard that has the idea about the parachutes to get the hostages off.
26:47
And you see them all gliding, you know.
26:51
Whenever they've jumped off in the parachutes, I just found that a bit too cheesy.
26:54
Yeah, that's why I was talking about some of the the political and the American
26:59
rah, rah, rah kind of thing.
27:00
Yeah, that's a little handy. I'll give you that. I wouldn't even say how.
27:03
I would just say a bit cheesy and cringeworthy.
27:06
I don't think it's, I think it's cheesy. I wouldn't say cringe.
27:10
Cringe is like a tough word. Whenever you see their stupid smiling faces,
27:13
whenever it was meant to be a big emotional thing.
27:15
When you see the big girl who he's going to make post-match in general,
27:18
which is the facts, which is a fun scene actually, because you don't know if they get the message.
27:23
Yeah. But I do like when the camera, you see her looking down smiling.
27:26
With a big stupid grin on her face.
27:28
If I was on that parachute, not knowing where I'm going to fucking land,
27:31
I'd be shitting my past, not smiling. I'd be screaming.
27:35
If I'm a cowardly bastard with heights and planes and all sorts,
27:39
I'd be fucking, I would be full on Frank Spencer taking some sort of crazed panic attack.
27:45
I wouldn't be sitting there with a big stupid grin on my face, put it like that.
27:49
The scene where, and the movie does that, the movie, I think the movie does that deliberately.
27:56
The show, like I mentioned before, a lot of films put a little cheese because
28:01
there's some dark elements in this film. So they like to lighten it up a bit.
28:05
Lighten it up a bit. Exactly. And so I can get that because the next scene,
28:10
he shoots the press secretary and.
28:14
That's probably the most brutal scene. It's the most brutal scene and you don't
28:17
see it, But you see the blood on the chair after.
28:21
You see her body being dragged away. I mean, and he does it in front of a child. Yeah.
28:29
And it's just terrifying. And me, to this day, still watching. Damn, he does.
28:35
And it's a woman. Well, he's a proper threat, you know? Yeah.
28:39
I mean, this is. And he's unhinged, you know?
28:43
Oh, yeah. Whereas David Suchet in Executive Decision was more cold and calculating.
28:49
This guy's a loose cannon.
28:50
And he's quite, well, he's very brutal, to say the least.
28:54
Do you know when the whole refueling thing's happening? Yes.
28:58
And you remember, okay, so he's getting people off the plane, right? Yeah.
29:01
And you have Agent Gibbs. He's helping him. Why did he just not help him? Yeah.
29:08
Yeah, well, he was still trying to basically convince of his cover.
29:11
I think his character should have had more to do generally anyway.
29:16
I think his character is a bit of a waste. Yes, you had to get Gary Oldman and
29:19
stuff on the plane, and he's a part of that.
29:21
But apart from that and the end, he hasn't really much to do.
29:25
Yeah, I mean, it kind of sucks because he just shoots William Macy per William Macy gets it.
29:31
Gary Lundervaude! Yeah, it's like, what the fuck?
29:34
So it's like, why was he still here? There should have been something elsewhere. Or even...
29:39
Gary Oldman kills him because he let him go. I don't know. Something where,
29:43
why is he helping him get off the plane?
29:46
I was actually hoping for a redemption arc for him, where he realized the error
29:50
of his ways and then sort of, you know, sided with the president and sort of
29:55
helped him get off the plane. Nah, too cliche.
29:58
That's too cliche. Well, I mean, it was better than what we got.
30:01
It would have been better than what we got, because apart from getting him on
30:04
the plane in the end, he has fuck all to do, essentially.
30:08
No. He's the one who has to initially, he kills half his men.
30:12
Yes, but at the start, he has stuff to do at the start, but getting Gary Oldman
30:17
and the guy on the plane. Yeah, but that's pretty big. Yes, I know.
30:21
But in between, he doesn't have anything really to do. Yeah,
30:24
but he got so much going on.
30:26
I just don't get why he was, maybe just to hold his cover, just in case they
30:31
do. He didn't want to blow his cover.
30:32
Yeah, he's got to play it safe, just in case. That probably is more likely.
30:36
Now, again, Wolfgang, mirroring his other films. This scene will be replicated
30:41
again in A Perfect Storm where the refueling thing goes wrong.
30:45
I like this scene a lot. I like the refueling. I like the part where Harrison
30:51
Ford, he's getting one off the parachutes and Harrison Ford falls because the refueling goes wrong.
30:59
The plane explodes. It's a nice shot actually when the plane explodes above.
31:03
Yeah. And then you see it falling below the plane as Harrison Ford's hanging
31:07
off the back end and see the explosion of the plane below his feet. It's pretty cool.
31:12
As effects were starting to becoming a little more advanced,
31:16
they're trying to work with CGI at that time and stuff.
31:20
Well, I would say... Some of the shots don't work. Some of them do.
31:24
But again, this is early stages and I can still appreciate the intensity and
31:28
the coolness of the scene.
31:30
Yeah, I mean, yes, I would sort of agree with that.
31:33
But I would say regarding the effect, the best effects here are the ones that don't use CGI.
31:39
Overall, I mean, obviously there's not that much cgi
31:42
used but there's one in particular at the end when
31:45
air force one gets yeah i i
31:49
don't like i don't like ripping on films when
31:52
they're early stages of an effect i appreciate that and i appreciate this is
31:56
97 but the plane crashing air force one i'll say look like something i'd see
32:03
from chroniconda on sci-fi channel yeah uh no it's it should Should have used
32:08
models? Should have done it with models?
32:10
They should have just done a model. I would appreciate that better.
32:12
Yeah. But they had to implement him, Gibbs, you know, crying as he's being crushed.
32:19
So I like his death, and I like the way the plane went down.
32:24
I just don't like the execution part of it. So, yeah.
32:28
Yeah. I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, like you say,
32:33
you know, it is early 90s.
32:34
There is a bit of dabbling with CGI, bad CGI. But overall,
32:39
It's not that There's not that much CGI in it anyway And certainly the stuff
32:43
with the stunts And the action and stuff Is very much practical and stuntman
32:47
and stuff And it works the best Of course.
32:52
When he finally captures our boy, Ivan has the president now.
32:59
He's telling him, he's smart. Ivan's smart.
33:04
He's cutting out the middleman. He's cutting out the White House.
33:08
He goes, you're going to call the president of Russia, and you're going to tell
33:13
him to release him. He goes, no, I'm not doing that.
33:16
This is the funny part. I won't say this. So he goes, you will call the president,
33:21
and you're going to, tell him to release my dictator friend.
33:24
Yes, Borat from Kazakhstan.
33:26
And he goes, yeah, he goes, very nice, very nice.
33:31
He goes, so he goes.
33:36
I'm not doing that. Yeah. And his daughter's two feet in front of him.
33:41
He puts the gun to his daughter's head. Okay. Okay.
33:45
To be fair, I totally get that. I'd have done that. I'd have said,
33:49
yeah, just release the fucker. Release Borat. Go for it. Nice.
33:53
He's going to do that. If I was Harrison Ford president there,
33:57
I would probably go, well, I'm going to have to do it because he's going to
33:59
probably put the gun to my kid's head. Yeah.
34:01
So, you know, it's, it's always going to happen. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
34:06
To be fair, I'm the Russian soldier's bump off evil senator guy anyway.
34:11
So it's okay in the end, you know?
34:14
I do like when he calls the Russian president and the Russian,
34:18
like I said in the beginning, He honors his comment.
34:22
If the president's alive, I'll do it. And so he does it, but he doesn't get
34:26
10 feet without getting shot.
34:28
But I do like that. I do like all the characters stay true to who they were.
34:34
And like Gibbs, even though there's some flaw in the way the character is portrayed,
34:41
none of the characters...
34:43
Switch gears. Yeah. There's no arcs here. There's really no arc.
34:47
I think the only one really, the only real arc here is Harrison Ford's,
34:53
you know, where, I mean, it's not a big arc in terms of like changing them,
34:58
you know, you know, like a sort of personal journey.
35:01
It's more, he goes from being the president to being an action hero and saving
35:05
the day, you know, but apart from that, there's no big arcs now.
35:09
Yeah. But that's okay. You don't need them. Well, it's an action. Yeah.
35:13
Yeah. There's not much you really can do. And if you put an article that gives
35:17
in there, it would have ruined it.
35:19
It's just like, no, this guy needs to die and he needs to die,
35:22
you know, because we want him to die a douche. Yeah. Yeah.
35:26
Usually guys like that would die a more gruesome death, you know?
35:30
Usually. It's still pretty. It still sucks. You're still alive and you're going
35:33
to crash into the ocean. Yeah. That would suck. Yeah.
35:38
Yeah. But we don't really see it. You know what I mean? He gets fucked into the ocean.
35:43
You know the way usually in films like this, you see their face screaming, you know.
35:49
You see him hanging out the door. I do like what they should have done.
35:53
Instead of showing the plane actually crashing because it doesn't kind of work,
35:56
they could have had it hit and you can see the plane hitting.
36:00
Then he cuts it inside the plane as the water's coming in and he's being blown
36:03
all over the place. Yeah, something like that.
36:05
That would have been cool. We need that payoff, even though he hasn't much to
36:09
do apart from the start and the end.
36:11
I do love the films, and this is standard. You got the lead actor,
36:16
Harrison Ford, and he's hanging off this cord.
36:18
The Air Force One's gone down. You now have Liberty 2-4 trying to pick him up
36:23
with the cord, and the music's like, and he's hanging, the wind's blowing.
36:30
It's like, come on, he's going to fucking make it. Obviously.
36:32
And then there's silence in the White House. Yeah.
36:37
And then it goes, Liberty 2-4 is now Air Force. And everybody cheered. Yeah. And saluted.
36:45
Welcome aboard, Mr. President. Yeah. I remember seeing this.
36:49
I said in the beginning of the podcast in Belfast with my mom and dad.
36:53
Full of a bunch of people from Belfast, and all of them were like rolling their eyes. Oh, my God.
36:58
Yeah. No, I mean, it is what it is, you know. It's that type of,
37:03
you know, sort of action film.
37:05
But I would say, just something I meant to say earlier on, see the Jerry Goldsmith score?
37:12
I found it distracting, and I'll tell you why. It sounds way too similar to
37:17
the Star Trek scores that he did at the time for Voyager and Deep Space Nine.
37:21
I was half expecting Cisco or Captain Janeway to pop up.
37:25
It sounds too similar to those Star Trek scores that he did.
37:29
Well, you got to realize, you can say the same thing about Williams, Hans Zimmer.
37:32
Yes. A lot of their scores are going to sound the same because it's very hard
37:36
to produce all new scores.
37:37
A lot of them just take other scores and just revamp them. Or tweak them.
37:41
But I did read up that apparently... I will say this. It did sound like it ripped
37:45
off a lot of executive decision score.
37:47
Yeah. And of course, at the end, we'll have, you know, Harrison Ford turning
37:50
into Kurt Russell in executive decision.
37:52
But, you know, those old flying lessons from back in the day just conveniently come in handy, you know.
37:59
But, you know. Yeah, no. But no, I completely disagree. A, he is a combat pilot.
38:05
So he does know the basics of flying.
38:08
And also, he doesn't land the plane. There's nothing he can do. No, no.
38:12
He doesn't land it. So I kind of like the fact that he planted that seed.
38:15
Like, you're going to roll, oh, here we go.
38:17
He's going to land the plane safely on the ocean. Yeah.
38:21
But no, he doesn't. Yeah. So I kind of like they pulled that away.
38:26
Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, as a sort of mid to late nineties action film,
38:32
it is stereotypical, but in that context, it works overall.
38:37
I love this film. I still do. I still love it. I love it.
38:40
I like it better than executive decision, but I think executive decision is
38:44
slightly smarter, believe it or not. I actually prefer executive decision.
38:49
Okay, that's fair. But that still works for what it is, you know?
38:53
You know, plane must have been pretty impressive. Yeah.
38:56
Who would have thought? You know? Yeah. Well, we got snakes on a plane next,
39:01
so we're definitely going to lighten the tone.
39:05
Oh, my God. But I can't wait to get to Shawshank.
39:11
Yeah, guys. Thanks for giving us a listen here. It's Harrison Ford,
39:14
guys. It was going to get a pass. Don't care.
39:17
I saw some bad movies that didn't do well for Harrison Ford,
39:21
like Hollywood Homicide.
39:23
Didn't they do a recent one a couple of years ago about a big dog?
39:27
I think it's a children's film or something.
39:29
I haven't seen it. You mean based on the famous novel called The Wild?
39:34
Is that what it's called? I don't know. Yes. I don't know. I just remember seeing
39:38
a photo of him on the internet with a big dog. And it looked cute. Yeah. It has a beard.
39:42
And I guess it's terrible. Yeah. So maybe we should do that and see if I give
39:45
it passes or not. Yeah. Just because he's fucking in it. Yeah.
39:49
I don't know. But, uh, well, maybe I don't want to see him.
39:53
Yeah. Ruin your childhood. Exactly. Guys, thank you so much for listening.
39:58
Downloads have been fantastic as usual.
40:00
Uh, give us a shout at citizenframe underscore podcast on Instagram or of course, Facebook.
40:05
Thanks for some of our new listeners. We got some new listener, Virginia, and Vermont.
40:12
Good. Yeah, so welcome aboard. Thanks, guys.
40:17
And that's all we have. Get ready for Snakes on a Plane. Jesus Christ.
40:22
You know a movie's bad when you have a... I'm literally terrified of snakes.
40:27
Right. Terrified. And this movie didn't scare me at all.
40:32
Right, okay. I don't mind snakes. I mean, don't get me wrong,
40:35
I wouldn't fancy a poisonous one creeping up on me, but in general terms, I don't mind him.
40:43
Alright, that's it. Gotta take care of ourselves. We'll talk soon.
40:47
Music.