Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Summer Remix: Album 8 Track 11: Marketing vs People-ing w/Todd Putman

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Summer Remix: Album 8 Track 11: Marketing vs People-ing w/Todd Putman · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds. It's summer 2026, Larry! LT: Love it DC: All right, y'all. Summer, summer, summertime. Summertime. Shout Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. LT: We know you- I'm glad you said Jazzy Jeff first, 'cause he doesn't gef enough, get enough run, I think, sometimes. You know what I mean? DC: I agree, and that was actually the name of the group LT: Right DC: Yeah. It was, it was J- it was Jazzy Jeff who was the DJ- First. Yeah ... who was the primary. But brand nerds, we know you all are out and about during the summer. Hopefully, you're getting some vacation time, rest and relaxation. And while you're doing that, what Larry and I and the Brands Beats and, uh, Bytes family thought we would do is to share some of the best that we've ever done at Brands Beats and Bytes, some episodes. So we're gonna be remixing some things for the summer that we're going to point you to by resurfacing the best of Brands Beats and Bytes anytime, summertime LT: That's right, D. Brand Nerds, what DC and I are really saying is if you missed this episode the first time, you need to catch it this time. They are must-see or listen, whichever you prefer. DC, please tell each Brand Nerd why this episode cannot be missed DC: Larry, I wouldn't be on this podcast right now but for this gentleman. I would not have had the career that I've had but for this gentleman, and there are not many people I say that about. But Todd Putman, marketing versus peopling, he is a people person through and through. Now, Brand Nerds, what you may not know or talk about that often with others is when you get a project that you know someone gave to you and they didn't expect you to do much with it, yet you blew it up. And you hear that from Todd with his Procter & Gamble Lava Soap. That's right, Brand Nerds, Lava Soap. Bet not many of you all have that or have heard of that. He's got a great story around, uh, Lava Soap. But beyond that, Todd, who I call Toddy, is challenging us as marketers to reconsider what we name ourselves, what we call ourselves on this podcast. And his assertion, Larry, is that are we really doing marketing or are we doing peopling? DC: Brand Nerds. Brand Nerds. Brand Nerds. Slow down. Brand Nerds, you've never heard me start a podcast with those two words. Slow down. I'm referencing a song called Slow Down by the Brand Nubians from an album, One For All. One of the members of Brand Nubian was Grand Puba. Grand Puba, as some of you Brand Nerds may know, appeared in a Sprite commercial many moons ago with Large Professor, also known as Extra P. Why am I saying slow down? Because Brand Nerds, whatever you're doing right now, I am going to ask you humbly, slow down and listen to this next guest on our podcast. I would literally not be in front of you today on this microphone or screen without this dude. Now he would say, oh no, maybe you would have, and then again, maybe you would say, absolutely you would not have. One doesn't know Larry, where this, where this character will go. But I know I would not be on this podcast right now. I would not have had the career that I have had without this gentleman. Um, he is, uh, he has been a mentor to me. He has inspired me. He has taught me, Brand Nerds, that it is possible to rise and navigate a corporate labyrinth and not lose your soul and Brand Nerds, for some of you, you know exactly what I am talking about. You can lose your soul on this journey. LT, You know, a mission of our, uh, brands, beats and Bites podcast is to build and make better marketing marketers, to make better marketing, make better marketers, to make better marketing. There is no one that I have ever met that is better at making better marketers to make better marketing than our next guest. I am beyond elated that he has spent time here. Uh, you will hear Brand Nerds and Larry, he will, he will throw zingers at me, and I want you to know it's outta love. It's auto. If he did not hit me with several zingers, I would not know that, that he loves me. Okay? I know he loves me because of the zingers. But seriously, Brand Nerds, slow down. Listen to what this mastermind, Uber marketer, he's far, he's, he's, he's now exceeded the marketing discipline. Now he's still one of us. He was born of us. He's now onto general manager, CEO stuff now, but he started as a marketer and he will help you all learn things that you will, if you had all of the, uh, all of the different AI agents available to you, and you could ask them questions. They're not gonna give you better answers than our next guest. LT, Let the peoples know the brand nerds know who we have in the building with us on this auspicious occasion. LT: Oh, thank you, DC Great, great setup, DC We have Todd Putman in the house today. Welcome, Todd. Todd Putman: Thank you so much. I, uh, I am, I am astounded and humbled by that intro. I mean, like, wow, the bar has been set. Zingers are prepped. LT: Well, we're not done with the intro yet, Todd, we're not done with the intro yet, so you can prep some more. This will give you some more, uh, time to prep. DC: I don't, I don't know, Larry, that we want to give this character more time to prep the zingers. I'm sure he's prepped enough, but, but please do the formal introduction of my brother. LT: Okay. Okay. Brand Nerds here is a key takeaway for today's guest and Todd, sometimes the best transformational brand builders are so good at their job that they elevate themselves above marketing into the C-suite and general manager roles. Todd is one of those people. For you young Brand Nerds, this is a very real direction if you desire it. Let's walk you through Todd's path. We are in the midst of March Madness, and we have a Purdue Boilermaker with us today. Todd earns his undergrad degree through Purdue. Still in it, right? Todd? Todd Putman: Absolutely. Boiler up babe. LT: Todd Todd is his undergrad degree from Purdue in Liberal Arts and Communications. Currently, Todd is the Chief Transformation Officer at Generous Brands. Generous Brands helps people thrive through vibrant nutrition with a portfolio that includes Bolthouse Farms, Health Aid, Evolution Fresh and and Sambazon beverages. Throughout his career, Todd has been a consumer strategist and advocate for mission centered organizations successfully leading transformational change for some of the most recognized Fortune 100 companies. Todd has been with Generous Brands and was formerly known as Bolthouse Farms for over 10 years, returning most recently in 2021 from 2018 to 2021, Todd stepped away from Bolthouse and and became the Executive Vice President, Chief Growth Officer at Bumblebee Foods, where he focuses on reinventing its core business and developing a well stocked pipeline of new products. From 2012 to 2016, Todd is the general manager of the Campbell Fresh Business Unit at the Campbell Soup Company. His career with Campbell also includes roles as CMO, Chief Commercial Officer for Bolthouse Farms and General Manager of Garden, Freshs Gourmet. Prior to that, Todd held senior leadership roles in marketing, innovation, sales and brand management at prominent companies such as the Coca-Cola Company. Again, no surprise with, uh, with DC's introduction, he's a fellow alum as we are the Walt Disney Company and Proctor and Gamble. Todd is also an author of the book, Be More Find Your Truth, tell Your Story, and Get What You Want Out of Life. We're really looking forward to this one. Welcome to Brands, Beats and Bites, Todd Putman. Todd Putman: Well, you actually said the name right? I get a lot of put NUMs, um, DC I'm gonna throw a zinger. I, I know you have a questions and you have an outline, but you're, your intro made me think of something. I, I wonder, you, you talked about building better marketers, uh, to get better marketing. Yeah. I, I wonder if we start a, a thing today by calling them, stop calling them marketers and start calling them "peoplers." DC: Mm. Todd Putman: Which I know is not a word, but people are, is what we do. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And what, you know, um, you did in incredibly well. It's having this ability, marketing is, I mean, that sound almost sounds like such a trite term now, or DC: mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Maybe even an old term. LT: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: I wonder if it's, if you're really good at, at marketing, you're really good at people. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: You have a, uh, an innate sense of humans and what they, DC: yeah. Todd Putman: What they do and why they do it. And, and then, you know, if you're really good marketers, you elevate up because you're able to inspire others, other people, lots and lots of people in some cases, around the insight. And so when you were talking about market, you know, build better marketers, I mean, are we, are we past that term? DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Marketers? DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: I mean, even brand nerds is a better name than marketers because it suggests that you're so nerdy, you're so into it, you know, into the brand and what it is, and you feel it viscerally. And you, you have such a, a touch. The best marketers that you and I know are, are really good peoplers. DC: They are. Todd Putman: Um, you know, and they just, they just have this. They love having that sense. You know, they're impasse, they walk around and they see stuff. You can't, can we cuss on here? What, what's the rule on Yes. Cus DC: Yes we can. Todd Putman: So they DC: Yes. Todd Putman: You know, people are, they see shit that others don't see. LT: Yep. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: And they imagine things for their, their baby brand that others can't then see, those are, those are great marketers. I just don't know that marketing is like, it's got such a silly name to it now. It's really people. Mm-hmm. So, sorry about, I know you got a list of questions, but boy, that's what you're, you know, it's what you were particularly good at when you were a baby marketer. I don't know that you were a great marketer as much as you were a great people. Um, you could see and pull ideas together that others couldn't see, and then, you know, convinced a bunch of, a bunch of folks, in this case, a bunch of white guys to do things that you thought were right. Old white guys. I don't know. So I'll start there. There you go. Now you can go wherever you wanna go. DC: Uh, I wanna stick here for a little while, Todd, but do you have any reactions, Larry, to this peoples LT: No, I really like it and I think as Todd was talking about it, like, 'cause marketers have such, it has a negative connotation, let's be honest. Yeah. Right. And, and if in this world, and especially the younger generation, the Gen Zs of the world, the last thing they want us to feel like they're sold to. And so marketing is one of, one of the words and the things that people think of, oh, what are they selling me now? That's the first reaction people have. So the peoplers are, is really a, a really interesting concept, Todd. I like it. Todd Putman: I mean, we've gone to influencers, right? We've used that, right? DC: We have, yeah. Todd Putman: We do that from analogy a lot. Yeah. Which again, it's just people are, you know, influencing folks, cohorts to do things. So I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated by your intro and, and what a great peopler, you, you were still are. Um, but that's what, that's what inspired me there. DC: Todd, and Larry, I'm not at all surprised that this is where we are at the beginning of the podcast, because Todd Putman: Off track. DC: That's who No, no, that, that's who Todd is. No. That, that's a necessary journey. Uh, Todd. LT: Yeah. DC: That is who you are. Uh, Todd, and as I was doing your intro, my part of your intro, which I don't prep. Yeah. I just go straight into what hits my heart and the things I said about you, Todd, are in fact people. Yeah. This is, this is what you are and what you do. And uh, and it is, it is, I think one of the things that has separated you from others and it is, it has helped so many other people realize some of their wildest dreams in our profession. Yeah, and then I'll close it with this, at least for my bit of it marketers, people who are good at just like doing regular marketing stuff, they get fired. Todd Putman: Yeah, they do. DC: People who are really good at people-ing and that are peoplers, they always can work. Todd Putman: Yeah. LT: Yeah. DC: Because as you said, Todd aptly, it's the ability to see things that others do not or cannot see. Todd Putman: Deeply true. DC: Yeah. LT: That and one addition, and having the vision to take it to the next level, to inspire others to come along with you on that journey. Yeah. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: Oh, for sure. And, you know, so many of us and all of us have gotten lost in, in data. Ah. 'cause there's just so much. And you know, when you can look at a brand and it's a very simple brand. It does X, Y, Z and you got cohort analysis and regression analysis and, and you got just, you know, geo geography and channels and, and you get lost in that data and you can't convert it. It's because either you don't love the brand, truly, truly, or you're not a peopler, and you can see through the data to the, to the idea that galvanizes others. So, you know, we're, we're probably too far on this, but, but it's a really, a core, core belief in why, you know, some marketers are so much more successful. And if you, and if you don't have it, right, if you don't, you know, this is the sad part about it. If you don't have that people-ing skillset, you're like, okay, there are a billion other things to do. LT: Right. Todd Putman: You have that people-ing insight and capability. You sit at a, you sit at a restaurant and you just, you know, notice it's just like a constant override of like, wow, I see this, I see that. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: You, you see that tapestry. Then you're, then you are it, you are a Brand Nerd. You are a peopler and, and, yeah. Can you learn some of the politics and the ways and the, you know, other things. Sure. But the core thing that you have, that core skill will be a skill that you will cherish forever and ever. And we all know, I mean, gimme 20, gimme 20 marketers that you, that the three of us know, uh, people are people, are people are analysts. DC: Yes. Right. Todd Putman: Leader sales. LT: Right. Todd Putman: All what we need, but not, not marketers, not peoplers. Okay. We're done with that. DC: Okay. So, well, not, not quite yet. Not quite yet. Okay. Because this is a perfect setup and to Get Comfy. Uh, uh, the last thing I'll say before we get to the get comfy question, and it is aligned with what you said, uh, is that Larry and I and Jeff and Jade and others in our business, we say we're actually not in the marketing business. We're in the psychology and entertainment business. Todd Putman: Oh, for sure. DC: Yep. So the psychology is the people Todd Putman: are, I might, I might challenge you and say you're in the psychology and the inspiration business because even for me, inspira or entertainment's got a little bit of motivation to it. Yeah. And if you just, if you just leave it at Inspire for how whomever takes that in, DC: I like that. Todd Putman: The entertainment could be learning, could be knowledge. DC: I like that. Todd Putman: Then. You inspire, you know, cohorts to move. That's ultimately what you're trying to do for whatever reason. Some cases it's bad, some cases it's good. DC: That's good. That's good. So here's my Get Comfy question. I was actually now go, go ahead. Go ahead, Todd. Todd Putman: No, no, no. I said yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just, I'm accepting your question. DC: All right. I was going to go right back to our mission. Make better marketers to make better marketing. I, I agree with you. I think we are reducing the impact with having marketers. So I agree with that. But you, Todd, have done this better than anyone that I've ever met, which I said at the introduction. Uh, I'll give you an example. Brand Nerds, when we were at the Coca-Cola company, and this is when one could argue, and I was biased, we had a collection of some of the best marketers in the world on the 14th floor of the Coca-Cola, north America. Our floor was the same as every floor in this building. Buildings 21, 22, uh, stories tall. Todd did not want our floor. This is where the brand management teams were to be like all of the other floors. He, he wanted our floor. When we step off that elevator on 14th. He wanted a, he wanted the floor to inspire us. He wanted our work environment to, to make us reach for the best that we could be in our, in our jobs and in the world. And he wanted an environment for us to be in that would evoke that. So he led the project to redo the entire floor. Now, this was not in his remit. This was not a part. He didn't come into Coca-Cola and say, hey, by the way. Todd just want you to know, does this pro, this is what he took on, and he did it and it transformed us. Just it, it wasn't just a physical transformation. There was an emotional transformation, a psychological transformation, an inspirational transformation. It, it transformed everyone there, whether, whether they were people or not. It did it for all of us. Then I'm gonna make another point, and this is the question to you, Todd. How were you able to see in some of us the ability to do this peopler thing? What did, what tools do you use to identify it? And then the second, uh, uh, follow on question to that is that once you identified it, how did you go about nurturing it? Bringing it further out. I'm asking this question, Todd, because that's what you did for me. And as, as, as to which I alluded here to which you alluded. So I, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a Black dude from Detroit, the ghettos of Detroit. I'm coming into, Todd Putman: Wait, wait, you're black? DC: See, see, see, see what I mean? Brand nerds. About these zingers. Here we go. And by the way, that was an impromptu zinger. There will be more. That was impromptu zinger. Yes, I am Black. Uh, and, uh, so I come in here and I am injecting a culture that I know into the Sprite brand. I'm injecting this into there LT: Authentically and genuinely, by the way, DC: authentically and genuinely. Not that you only have to be black to do that, but I was, and I knew it. And, and as you said, Todd, there were a lot of white. Folks that didn't really understand and may not have been all that comfortable, but here you were going, oh, this, this little dude right here. That something going on there. So we, we, we I'm gonna help raise that up. How do you do that? Todd Putman: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. You asked what 50 questions in that paragraph. DC: I did, I did. You're a smart guy. Keep up. Todd Putman: Oh man. Um, I mean, let's, let's not take the, the 14th floor reconstruct, I mean, 'cause that's, you know, that's a hundred mil million years ago. It was a, it's an interesting, you know, um, happenstance. We process a, a lot of money to do that. And it, you know, for many, many years, um, DC used to drive by that, that Coke building. You'd see a white stripe literally across the middle, middle of the building. 'cause we tore down everything and made it That's right. And made it open. And so it. It was a very memorable, um, uh, experience. But let's go to your second question. How do you, how do you see it in people? Um, DC: mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Boy, it's a hard, it's a hard question. Um, you know, it's, it's, you know, when you see it for sure, but I do. Mm-hmm. I do think it comes back to this, it falls off of this people question because my observation is that the best marketers are most of the time the best human in terms of their, they've got a combination of their comfortable in their own skin. Mm-hmm. Um, he or she can see things that others, you know, can't see. And for me, I've just always been able to recognize that pretty quickly. Mm-hmm. Like to just know it. And I wouldn't go through that list today, but you and I, you know, know who those folks are. Ser mm-hmm. DC: We do. Todd Putman: Sergio Zeman is an example was, was. Um, one of those individuals that literally could see through, uh, data and insights and, and get somewhere. And, and he was not the easiest human, but he was mm-hmm. Definitively human. DC: He was definitively, yes. Todd Putman: He was definitively touch, he was definitively feel. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Um, and, uh, you know, he, he exceeded and excelled in his day, in, in that moment. So how do you see it? I, today, I still see it, individuals who just, um, they, they obsess. They are consumer obsessed. They, they love their business, they love their brand, and they bring to it their, their heart and their actions, their humanness to that, to that brand. Um, and sometimes it's super magical because they're a one of a kind. I mean, you, in your case in Sprite, you were a, you were a unicorn in that day, in that time. Because nobody looked like you. Nobody felt like you. And, and you're probably right. I I really worked hard at having your back, you know? DC: Yes. Todd Putman: No matter, you know, to no matter what, like, DC: Yes, you did. Todd Putman: To, did document of, of myself. But that really worked. DC: Right. Todd Putman: And, and success followed in, in major ways that change the business in a, in a meteorite like way. So how do you recognize that, you know, there's a couple of steps. You, they, people come to the business, come to the brand with their whole selves. They have, they have they constant curiosity. They're vulnerable. Um, they, they feel, they, they, they talk in touch words, not, not always data words. They use their data to, to emphasize their touch words. Um, I feel like I'm making up new concepts in this podcast more. DC: This is good. LT: These are good man. Todd Putman: And touch words. They use touch words to, to inspire and, and always, always, always, they have a vision of where they want to go, and oftentimes that vision is, you know, really hard for most others to see. Um, so it's that combination. It's, you know, I don't, I, I can't, I can't re-list what I just did, but that's it. It's pretty consistent in the success people, and I've seen a lot, a lot of successful people over my, over my time. LT: That's really good. DC: Larry, anything to add to that? LT: No, I think it's, I, I think it's really good. The one thing I'd say, and you said it before, you have to have all those things and then. You have to have the leadership capabilities to in, to inspire, you know, that's what you, you were saying, Todd, too, like, you can have all the things you had, but you also have to have the ability to inspire. And I think you were talking about touch words, that's part of it, right? Like, you gotta have the feels of, uh, of reading the room, reading people, and, uh, and ensuring that, um, that your vision is actually not only being heard, but being felt by the folks that are most important. Todd Putman: Yeah. I mean, DC Go back a little bit just for fun. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: Um, you know, you, you know, Rohan Oza is in our, in our, our midst and in our, you know, one of the, one of the people that you, when you talk about is some of the successful marketers in the planet. He's what, top 10, right? DC: Yeah. Yeah. Todd Putman: Extraordinarily different than than you in terms of presentation and certainly humbleness. I say that with a tremendous amount of love. He's got all kinds of touch roots. I mean, DC: He, he does, yes. Todd Putman: He just, he, he moves through life with, you know, touching things and imminently, infinitely, not imminently, infinitely curious about what's around it. DC: Correct. Todd Putman: Um, now you could, you know, he and I have argued with his style and his approach sometimes. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: Uh, which is like, not mine, but you guys were, you guys were kind of two peas in the pod DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: With really different sort of styles. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Um, but both were, you know, very successful because the core was, you know, passionate, um, touchy human and, and constant curious. And each of you had a vision for respective businesses and brands that trans, you know, transformed organizations. A lot of words there, but that's deeply true. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it, I wouldn't say to the markers that. You have to be either DC or Rohan because, or, or you have to be a certain type. 'cause those are two examples of completely different styles to DC: Totally different, uh, styles. Uh, great point. I love Rohan. Um, he's one of the best to ever do it all time. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: One of the best to ever do it all time multiple times. Not, not once or twice, but multiple, unlimited number of times that he's done it. Todd Putman: Yep. DC: Loved that dude. Different styles, but as you said, same touch, different styles, same touch. One of the quick comment, Todd, then we're gonna get into the next segment of the podcast. You, you mentioned you always had my back and you did. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: That's, that's defense. You also played offense for me. Todd Putman: True. DC: So defense is, oh, let's make certain nobody. Messes this kid up. Let me, let me make sure they don't, 'cause politically vipers are always around and they can take you out. You would not allow anyone to take me out. Sure. But then on the offense side, you helped me get my first Vice President's role when I was a pup by telling me, you should go for this DC Yeah. You need to go for this role. And this is, this is what you need to think about in doing that. And I did it and I got it. Yeah. That's offense, that's not defense. Todd Putman: Well, I mean that, that, that leads us, you know, nicely into, so that, uh, uh, aggressive form of career strategy, or at least cogent form DC: mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Of career strategy is what I wrote that book about. Right. Because I have, I, I found so many individuals that when you ask them, you know, and probably, I, I probably asked you this and you probably gave me some shitty answer. At the moment, like, what do you wanna be when you grow up? DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: I'm so DC: You did. Todd Putman: I so deeply believe that nobody gives a, a crap about you. Like, I'm not paying DC your mortgage. I'm not, I'm not doing that. And so at the end of this thing, we go back to our worlds. Nobody, nobody, nobody cares about you. Organizations certainly don't. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Um, they say they will. LT: Exactly. Todd Putman: But they truly don't. They don't. No, they don't. That's changed over the last four or 50 years. So what's really important and what's good about that story that you just told about Vice President is I deeply believe as a marketer, as a people, that one has to define what it is they want and what their skills, values, and passions are that come with that. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And so many younger folks, you know, are a little bit like. When I ask that question, it's a fascinating question. Hey DC tell me how you're gonna launch the Sprite brand in Houston, uh, next summer. And you would go, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. You'd had 19 things ready to roll out. Yeah. Hey DC what's your next step for your career? And you gave me some mumbo, bumbo bs about, well, I don't like to be, move up a little bit. I'd like to have some more toys, maybe a little bit more money. But, you know, I'm still thinking about it. Like the, like how can you LT: Yeah, yeah. Todd Putman: Be so conscious and so planful about a stupid, you know, buy one, get one free Sprite ad and know everything that's gonna happen and where you want to go. And then when we talk about your career, one's career, we don't have that at least somewhat, um, you know, mapped out. 'cause if you think somebody else is gonna do it, they're not. Yeah. They're just, they're not, they're just not. And so that's always fascinated me. And, and it was that, that, that, and probably many other experiences were the reason why I wrote the book. And I just, I find it for marketers. I mean, I think I said this lt to you the other day, there's no such thing as an old marketer. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: At some point in time you need to have a plan to say, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna venture this way, I'm gonna go into charity work, I'm gonna go into board work. Yeah. There are, there's no such thing as a, you know, maybe in some industries, I don't know where they are, a 50-year-old market, maybe in a 40-year-old marketer today. DC: Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. But no, no, no. Fifties brother. Yeah. No. Todd Putman: And so LT: Not on the line to the point that you're making, not on the line. Todd Putman: But being planful about it and, and knowing that that's a, that's a, that's an outcome, LT: right? Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: How are you going to manage your career around that? I mean, and as, as I say, what are the skills, values, and passions that'll get you there? That, that's a fascinating topic for specifically marketers who are, who are who. The, the, the, uh, the fishbowl is like, you're gonna, you're not gonna be the Sprite brand manager for 20 years. That does not happen, right? So you're gonna move up, or you're gonna move around, or you're gonna move sideways. And again, boy oh boy. The biggest thing that I would have is folks should have some kind of plan. I'm not talking about a title and a comp estimate for now, right? But I'm talking let's have territories and zip codes mapped out. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: Sorry, I went a little nutty there. DC: All good, brother? All good. We're going to the next section, five questions. Larry and I go back and forth until we arrive at five. Since today is opening day Yankees play tonight. I'm not a Yankees fan, I'm a Tigers fan. They played LT: the Giants, by the way, DC: which be clear. They played tonight. Is opening, opening, opening day, opening season. LT: Who cares? DC: Okay. But people care. People care. All right. Five questions. I'm up first. God, what was the first branding experience you can recall that set your soul ablaze hairs up on the back of your neck. You are into this thing. Whatever it is, you lose track of time. You love it. Almost like a first love. What was this for you? Todd Putman: You're not talking about when I said to my mom, I really prefer Huggies versus Pampers. Is that correct? DC: No. You, you, you that far back. You were babbling then. No, no, no. We don't wanna hear your babble. Todd Putman: Um, I'll, I'll do this one really, really quick. I was at Proctor and Gamble and I, I was not succeeding. I was one of 93, uh, of that class. I was the only, there was only three of us that had a liberal arts education, so I didn't have an MBA, so I was failing at Procter and Gamble for sure. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And they said, Hey, why don't you go over, take this Lava Soap brand, which, you know, you guys will remember a little bit. Um, I DC: remember, yeah. Todd Putman: Was a, a hand, it was pump had lava pumice in it, like LT: Right. Todd Putman: Like almost sand as a way to clean hands. LT: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And they said, uh, I know you're an assistant brand manager, but take this brand, do whatever you want, knock yourself out as a brand manager. And I'm like, yes. I was literally by myself. And, um, I met along the, I'm like, okay, where does, you know, go back to this people-ing thing. Where does Lava Soap live? Like where does it, you know, its most fervent consumers. Well, it was in, in, um, body shops in, uh, like, you know, oil chain shops. And so I went there. I'm like watching these guys. Talking to him because I'm a peopler, so I'm like, what do you do and how do you do it? And you know, how do you use this? Then I said, well, what do you do when you're not doing this? And they're like, well, we go to drag races. I'm like, never been to a drag race. What's a drag race off? We go to a drag race. And there I met a guy, uh, who has passed out, whose name is Roger Guston, and he put a Pratt Whitney JT 12 jet engine, scrapped it to a Camaro and would walk, you know, go around drag races. My brilliant idea DC which makes perfect sense to me, was let's have Lava, so soap sponsor this basically jet car. Did that, uh, propose it to Procter and Gamble. And I'll never remember John Pepper, who was the CEO of DC: Oh yeah. Todd Putman: Said, okay, I'll agree with this, but I want you to draw me a map and I don't ever want it to be within a hundred miles of Cincinnati, Ohio. Like, I don't want anybody to know that you're doing this. And I had a map in my little brand assistant cubicle that had a piece of yarn. The only problem was we were in Cincinnati and there were a lot of drag races in Indianapolis and all kinds of places we couldn't go there. And so that was the first time, my first brand experience that I really remember, um, that, you know, I was in love with. We were incredibly successful at the time. I think Proctor and Gamble sold the business, but from that moment and that story, boy uh, we killed it. DC: Love that! Larry? LT: No, that's really cool. I love that story. DC: Yeah, it's, it, it it's the, you had me, Todd, and then, uh, Larry, go to the next question. At, I went to the oil chain shops to talk to the people, which then led me to drag. Like at that point of the story, I'm like, okay, you, you got me? Yeah. Whatever it is. You, you, you got me. Alright, Larry, next question, brother. LT: Yeah. So Todd, who's had or is having the most influence on your career? Todd Putman: It's, I mean, DC knows this individual well, Jeff Dunn has been, is another icon in the, in the industry. Kind of like Sergio. Um, nev, you know, I have been under this person's wing for DC 30 years, 25 years. Yeah. A really long time. One of the most strategic, visionary, exceptional leaders, um, that I've ever been around. And, um, you know, to, to this day, we have a, uh, relationship where he pushes, screams, yells, supports, um, covers is both, uh, DC as you say, both proactive and, and defense or, and offense all the time. Um, he would do anything for me and I would likely do anything for him still. DC: Uh, Larry, any thoughts I have? LT: No, go ahead. DC: Um. I know Jeff done really well. Todd knows that Jeff did not just do those things for Todd. He did those for several people. I won't say all the people because Jeff is selective. Todd Putman: Oh, yes. DC: Uh, and, and like Sergio and I love Sergio as well. Uh, Jeff and Sergio do not suffer fools. Todd Putman: No. DC: They, they don't do that. And so because of that, if you were one of these people that Jeff Dunn, and thank you Jeff, by the way, where he played defense and offense, and I love your, your touch word of covering. If he covered you, you knew you were covered and everyone else knew you were covered and Todd Putman: Yeah. Uh, what's interesting about that DC Can I ladder off of that DC: Please. Todd Putman: Um, for the, for the audience and the young brand nerds, um, covering is not a bad thing. First of. If you have somebody that can quote, unquote cover you, it actually is incredibly freeing. DC: Mm-hmm. LT: Yep. Todd Putman: Um, it's freeing for the business. Um, if you know that there's just a tiny bit of a net from a big dog, DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: Then, you know, you'll say 10 things, eight of which might be done, but two of which might be brilliant if you don't have that cover. If you don't have that, uh, that ability to really, really bring forward your mind, it's rough. It makes it rough for marketers or peoplers who are intended to be on the outer edge, who are intended. Their job is to, to portray what's next. Um, and if you don't have that cover, that sounded like a bad word in my, in my brain for a second there. If you don't have that cover, marketers don't do their best work, in my opinion. DC: Agreed. LT: When I would say that you're right about marketers and everybody, you get, you have to feel comfortable that the folks that you're working with and for have your back. And if you don't feel that people have your back, you're not gonna put yourself out there and, and do many of the things that, that Todd, I think you put forth that are really important for people as it relates to being good marketer. And one of them is being vulnerable. And if you feel like people aren't covering you, you ain't gonna be vulnerable. Todd Putman: Well ask, you know, so ask me what my, what my, my screw up is. Ask me what my worst and LT: Now's a segue, D. DC: Let's, let's do it right now. Let, let me set the question up, Todd. So Brand Nerds, you know, it, uh, Todd's losing patience with me. No. And I just Brand Nerds. I give zero Fs, just so you know, just so you know. Okay. I'm gonna state the question and you're gonna sit here with your handsome self and listen. Okay. Got it. Alright, here we go. What was the biggest f up of your career? The biggest one, Todd. And, and most importantly, what'd you learn from it? Okay. Go. Todd Putman: Well, I mean, you know, I don't think anybody really great, um, uh, doesn't have a list of 10. DC: Um mm-hmm. LT: Love that. Yes. Todd Putman: If you don't have, you don't, you don't have 10 to tap into. Again, I just don't think you're, you're pushing hard enough. LT: Yep. Todd Putman: Um, and that, again, for brand nerds out there, it, it is your, your job to push, um, to push the boundary to influence organizations and to move mountains with ideas. I mean, it's just there. So the biggest cover up are the biggest mistake, uh, or, or F up, uh, DC relates to, uh, and I know you, you're know, this example relates back to the Jeff Dunn and to the cover. So obviously Coca-Cola does a lot of Super Bowl ads. We did one and I, uh, did one with a, an individual that you're gonna remember called Carrot Top. DC: Oh yeah, yeah. Todd Putman: And Carrot Top had obviously orange hair, you know, 'cause he looked like a carrot and, LT: ...and now he's really buff too. Todd Putman: Yeah, I think at the time I thought it was brilliant. Um, and, um, uh, you know, it was, was, you know, certainly out there and Jeff covered me. Um, you know, we spent. What it is now, you know, then was four or $5 million on a Super Bowl ad. That's a big deal. LT: What brand was it, Todd? Todd Putman: It was Coca-Cola. CocaCola. LT: Okay. Todd Putman: Yeah, you can look it up. It was Coca-Cola and, um, it was a terrible, terrible ad that ran in the second quarter. I'll never forget it. And, uh, you know, I started getting, you know, commentary, messaging, literally from the half, um, DC You remember Henry Shimberg The Most Powerful Body? DC: Oh yes. Oh yeah, I do too. Big dog. Big dog. Todd Putman: Huge dog. And uh, you know, the mistake that I learned from is I didn't show him. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: I didn't show Henry, which was terrible mistake. And partly I didn't show him because I knew it was risky. I knew it was, you know, it was tough. And I said to Jeff, Jeff, this is either gonna absolutely fly or it's gonna flop. And I, and I, I just don't know, but I know enough to go, let's try it. And. He covered me. And, and, and the mistake was I probably should have showed Henry and then taken my lumps. But the fact that I didn't show Henry well, DC: it it wouldn't have run if you showed Henry. LT: No, I was just gonna say, it wasn't gonna be on, it would not have been on the Super Bowl tie. DC: No. Todd Putman: It was such a terrible ad. But, um, so what do you learn? You know, big ideas take inspiration. That's all, that's all true. But you gotta manage the constituencies along the way. Um, and so there is, there is that, um, I learned that, you know, constituency management on big day is, big ideas is as important. You may choose as a Brand Nerd to say, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna show Henry, or I'm not gonna show whoever that is, and I'm gonna take that risk. You'll take the consequence. LT: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And importantly, if you don't have a cover, uh, in this case, Jeff, who completely covered like, said my call, I did it, took it, took it all DC DC: mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Took a hundred percent of it. And I, you know, but I knew it was me and it wasn't him. It was me. And so huge, you know, flop in front of the, the nation and certainly constituency management would've been something I should have done a lot better. LT: This is a good one, D. DC: That's a great one, Larry. Any response? That's a great one. LT: Uh, I just have one quick comment and I'd love to hear what you said. I, I think in DC you alluded to it. I think we all know having been there, that if you showed it to Henry, as DC said, it wouldn't have aired. And I think you had the intuitive sense to know that Todd, because if you showed it to him, um, you know, that thing wasn't gonna happen. And I think you were all about, like you said, man, you're going risk reward here. You had big risk, but you had bigger reward in your mind. So the reward beat the risk there. Todd Putman: It did. It absolutely did. Great. Great call out. Absolutely true. It wouldn't have run, we would've run, we would've just substitute something in. LT: It wouldn't have no way. DC: It would've, it, it, it wouldn't have, uh, I'll just say this and then we'll move to the next question, but brand nerds. Uh, back in the day that Todd is referencing at the Coca-Cola company, the company, Coca-Cola did not own the bottlers. Todd Putman: No. DC: The bottlers were a separate company. And of all of the bottlers in the world, Henry Shimberg was the singular most powerful human in, in the bottling industry. So, Todd Putman: and terrifying. DC: And terrifying, yes. LT: There were many stories of brand people going in front of him. DC: Oh. LT: And just getting, you know, DC: he, he would, he would grind up brand, uh, management people and on the other end you'd be a sausage. That's right. He would, he, he would either use you. Snack or kick you out? This was Henry Shimberg. And so during that time, Brand Nerds, it was customary especially on, on brand Coke to talk to Shimberg and other major bottlers as well as the board. It was not uncommon. Todd, LT: The bottler board, just let's be clear that you're talking about right? DC: The bottler board? No, the bottler board and the board of directors of the Coca-Cola company. LT: Both. Cool, cool. DC: Yeah, I remember times Todd and I, uh, crafting a letter like this is old school stuff and the big tapes and sending them, giving them to Jeff. Jeff would send them to the board. Todd and I wait to hear. They're already shot. The media's already bought, right? If they're running in, I don't know. Uh, two, two weeks. We're sitting there waiting because at any time. They could say, you're not running this one or that one. The rest is okay, this was customary. So that's a Todd, that was a excellent F up and a great learning. Thank you brother. Thank you, Larry. Next question. LT: All right, Todd, so this goes to the, the bytes part of our, our podcast here. So regarding technology and marketing, you've seen a lot. Uh, can you tell us where you think marketers, or I'll even say for you, the, the, the general managers, the business folks should lean in or best leverage tech as it relates to marketing or areas that they should be leery or simply avoid? Todd Putman: Yeah, let's go leery. I don't, I don't, I don't, I didn't like the first part of that question. Um, and, you know, um, LT is, you don't know me well enough. I changed the rules of the, of the, of the questions of the game so that I can you think, yeah, I can get where I want to go. DC: I'm shocked. I'm I'm, I'm Godsmack. LT: Hey, the, the, our, our PR folks at Koch back in the day would be very proud of you from the media training that you, you answer the question you want to answer. So go ahead. Todd Putman: I'm blocking and bridging on you. LT: Yeah, Todd Putman: no, I, I, I think leery boy oh boy. You know, you, you starting to, I mean, we're all talking about AI you know, ad nauseum in different ways, but the idea of using AI platforms as a commercial entity, in other words, using insights coming off of, of ChatGBT or others to sell you on ads when, you know, I think, I think I saw a stat the other day, something like 27% of ChatGBT questions are around, uh, you know, therapy or psychology or personal issues that you have in, in one's life. To use that kind of information then to service and add to is despicable to me. It is not just leery. I would ask that all, you know, Brand Nerds, we stand up against that intrusion. LT: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Um, if I ask chat GPT about my relationship or my kids or, or something, and I give them an a nugget about me, and then I get a, an ad served for or something as a function of that, I think I, I truly, and I see it happening. I see it happening already. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's despicable, um, you know, stand up, uh, in and, and be really clear. I'm not, I'm not using that, uh, capability to sell products. Um, off of, off in some cases people's worst, you know, worst parts of themselves, worst nightmares. Totally disagree with it. Not that it matters, but there ought to be a movement against it for sure. LT: Yeah. Totally agree. D, you have anything to add? DC: Larry, well, yeah, I do. Um. I remember a saying, um, back in the day that I learned from an executive, and this is a place with lots of resources. They said, uh, you can do anything at the Coca-Cola Company, but you can't do everything Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: At the Coca-Cola company. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: And I think of your point, Todd, is that the data might allow us to do anything that we want to do, but we should not do everything. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: We should not try to do everything. And I see this as a place where business people and people are need to discern the difference between doing something that they can do versus something that they should do or not do. Todd Putman: Yeah. That's, that's my takeaway. DC: That's, Todd Putman: I mean, uh, Proctor and Gamble's, I think they only had one value. Maybe they still do, which is do the right thing. DC: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Do Todd Putman: the right thing. Yeah. Do the right. If you go back to this whole thread through this thing around peoplers and human and curiosity and, you know, going into the body shop and knowing people that trove of information coming off of ChatGPT or, or other AI platforms would be pretty enticing. Yeah. Because, you know, I get to know that X, y, Z individual is having trouble with his wife and, and having heart issues, and so I can, I can service an ad for a heart ailment and, and, and could you, sure. Should you? Absolutely not. It, it's misplaced, uh, insight, um, not approved, you know. Yeah. I mean, if you're on Chat GPT, you've already signed your life away that anything you ask can be used for, for ads. That's in the, that's in the details. Other platforms that, some are not doing that, but most are. So that bridge has already been crossed and it's, it is, again, I, you see, you can see my energy and passion. It's the wrong thing. And it's, we as marketers have tons of of power. Sometimes we don't even recognize the power that we have. We cannot, should not use it in, uh, malicious ways or in ways that are nefarious in that, in that sense, in my opinion. LT: Completely agree. One quick comment, D,, before we throw it to the last question. I actually have a couple of friends of mine and who, I have a couple friends of mine who have significant people in their lives. I don't even want, like relatives who are so lonely that ChatGPT is their friend. Todd Putman: Yeah. LT: Think about that for a second. And I've read about this too. So to your point, Todd, that that information is all in the AI system somewhere, and for that to be used in any commercial way. Is really insidious in, in my mind. Completely agree with you. Um, yeah. Todd Putman: It's happening right now. It is happening. LT: It is. D, you hit the next question? DC: Todd, what are you most proud of? Todd Putman: You. No, um, I mean, well, that, that's a silly answer, but it's tr true. I mean, I, in my skills, value and passions work, my passion is ena enabling others to be great. Mm. Um, and, uh, so I spent a tremendous amount of time still today. Uh, I, given, I've been given the opportunity with Generous Brands and and Butterfly to do a fair amount of coaching to, you know, fair amount of, of connecting with others. And so being, um, watching others, uh, succeed in their, in their careers, you know, and careers kind of blend over into your personal life pretty darn quickly. That's a joy, that's a, that's a gift that that few people get. And boy, you know, I'm so, I'm so incredibly proud of like so many leaders, um, you know, who have done well, who have gone on to, you know, be successful in, in all kinds of careers. I mean, you and I know some individuals that have, that have moved into, you know, into the charity space. Caroline Robinson, I'm thinking about... DC: Oh yeah, yeah. Todd Putman: Um, you know, have taken their, uh, skillset and moved that, I mean, so let me, let me, sorry. Let me back up. Just brilliant thought. Brilliant thought. My thought. So, should be brilliant. But the idea that you learn peoplers learn marketing and then for whatever reason you take that skillset and you apply it to something that moves or changes the world. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: In my case, believe it or not, I mean, I think, you know, a little bit of the story. I, I took all of the. The Coke training and I applied that to carrots. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And when I say carrots, I'm talking about orange carrots. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: And I created a campaign called Eat 'em Like Junk Food that's still out there in the world. That, uh, we had so much, uh, positive effect of that campaign. There literally was not enough land to grow the carrots. That consumption of that campaign would have cost in terms of getting healthy, you know, taking all of the things that we, we know and are taught as marketers or human, and applying that to good things in the world. Boy, to be proud of that and to, and you don't have to do it full-time, you can do it part-time. Mm-hmm. But we are giving, we are, we as marketers are given the tools to move mountains, to move ideas, to move people, to move cohorts. And yes, you can do it to get more people to sign up for Comcast. Great. I have no, yeah. I have no. No, you know, thought on that, but you can also do it to, to, you know, uh, build homes for the homeless. Mm-hmm. Or you can, you know, help train, um, minorities in finance and banking. Mm-hmm. Which you and I know some of those folks. DC: Yeah. Todd Putman: So, boy, am I, am I proud of some of the success of people like yourself and Rohan and others? Yes. It's got an extra little tinge when those individuals are also using their enormous firepower, their skillset to move the world in whatever positive way they think. I'm not gonna put a, you know, politic on that, but, and know, and there's a lot of us that have done that in, in so many ways. That's, I would argue, I, I didn't even think of that before I got here at DC but yeah, that's probably the thing that I'm most proud of is, is, is watching these people succeed using their firepower to really, really move, you know, move the world. DC: Wow. Wow. That's, that's Todd Putman: like we did, do we, I don't know how much time we have, but, so we did that Eat em, like junk food campaign. Anybody, Brand Nerd can go look at that. There's, that's pretty hilarious. That campaign was, was seen by Sam Cass, who was the White House chef for the, for the Obamas, brought Jeff and I to the White House and said, how can you get people to eat more fruits and vegetables? How can you use your skillset DC: mm-hmm. Todd Putman: To move fruit and vegetable consumption, which in the US is still way below what it should be. Mm-hmm. Obesity rates, unbelievable Obesity rates among minorities. Absolutely unacceptable. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: The healthcare cost is a function of that is, is truly a weight on, on the country. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And so that's a great example of taking what you know, as a, as a Brand Nerd. That led us all the way to the White House. Forget politics for a second, and the That's awesome. The Let's Move Campaign from the First Lady on and on. I mean, it took us into places that we never imagined that we could go because of a skillset called Peopler called Marketing. DC: Wow. Todd Putman: Oh, and that was a, that was a, that was a trip wire you had. LT: Wow. That's a great story. DC: Wow. LT: Yeah. Todd Putman: Seriously, right? LT: Yeah. One quick comment, D, before you, you know, I love where, where Todd is going about, again, gonna take, steal your people to take the people skills and helping people, right? Yeah. That, again, we've all been in business. There's nothing wrong with, you know, we, we all sign up. We know what we're signing up for. When you take a brand management role for the company that you're with. Uh, but to then translate that into, to really doing good for folks is, is a wonderful thing. And especially, you know, in, in your specific situation, Todd, with all of the food deserts out there, both urban and rural, that's even more difficult. Right. Um, which is a whole other situation, but something you have to deal with. Todd Putman: Larry, sorry to interrupt you, but you know, the only thing that's stopping Brand Nerds from doing what you just said? DC: What? Todd Putman: Imagination. LT: Yeah. Todd Putman: Imagining that the skills that a Brand Nerd has could actually reapply to the local food shelter, right. The, the, the, the skillset that you can just imagine helping some local community food harvest, whatever it is, will blow people's brains and do so much good for that individual as well as the organization. I mean, that's, we've seen it. Over and over and over again. The only thing that's stopping some of the younger folks, I think Larry is imagining it, so, LT: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: Because they, they, they think of themselves as like, okay, work is this and I'm really, really good at LT: Right. Todd Putman: You know, pushing X, Y, Z, but the implication, um, is huge. And just imagine that to be true and go find it. LT: Oh, that's awesome. Oh, D, That was great. DC: Yeah. Uh, wow. Just, just while, uh, Todd, uh, I'll say this before we get to the next section. You talked about what we learned at Coca-Cola or wherever you happen to be. If you learn and hone your people-ing in skill, you can apply that anywhere you use, uh, Caroline as an example. And there, there are others. When I went to Boost Mobile. Yeah, I was one of five people on the management team. We were a no contract wireless, um, uh, brand, uh, on the Nextail network. Um, no contract wireless, uh, brands at the time were considered to be down market. Todd Putman: Yep. DC: Um, you didn't have a good enough credit in order to get a contract brand. Now all brands are about no contracts, but in this time there was a stigma attached to it. Yeah. The name of the company was Boost Mobile. We could have just been about selling minutes, this many minutes for this amount of money. We didn't do that. Instead, we said, people-ing, we're going to, at the end of the day, boost the lifestyle and status of, uh, of young people in ways that matter. Boost lifestyle and status of young people, dot, dot in ways that matter. We then found a nascent company called Rockcorps. Rockcorps. Their, their, uh, thing was, and they were just doing this in a couple of places in in the us, was to do things in local communities, volunteer work where you go and you do volunteer work for four hours and then you get some entertainment. We partnered with them and started doing major concerts all over the country in the greatest venues in the country, radio city music hall at the time, Kodak Theater, and then Dolby Theater in LA, Fox Theater, in, uh, in Atlanta. And we packed these venues with people who did four hours of community service. You can't win a ticket. You can't buy a ticket. You could only earn a ticket by boosting your community, by boosting your community. Now, there are 205,000 volunteers, 820,000 hours, 3,000 nonprofits helped. You can't do that unless you know something about People Inc. So shout out Stephen Greene, uh, Kat, Alex, and all of those that are working on that. That does not happen, Todd, unless we learn the people. Yep. And have the touch that, that you mentioned. So that's what comes out of learning this stuff. So with that, Larry, let's hit the next section, brother. LT: Let's do it. And, and by the way, Caroline was a guest on this show. She was fantastic. DC: Um, yes, she was, oh, lemme say this by, and Caroline also worked at Rockcorps in my group. LT: That's right DC: and helped to do this. Darryl Butler, I, I gotta shout these people up. Darryl Butler led this along with Mark Fuel, Fuely, shout, DB Shout Fuely. So Caroline was with me during that time. Jeff Waterman. Okay, let, let's keep going. I could, I could go down the list. LT: All right. So the next segment, Todd, is What's popping? What's Popping D? DC: What's popping? LT: So Todd, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply have something happening in around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. You might have something, and if you don't, I do. Todd Putman: Yeah, I don't, I I think I'm, uh, no, I, I got, let's go with yours. LT: Okay, let's go to mine. I think you guys will really like this. So I got a question for both of you. What percentage of Fortune 500 CEOs do you all think have a marketing background? And when I say marketing background, they worked in marketing. They didn't do an internship for a minute that truly were marketers. What do you think? What. Yeah. Todd Putman: Yeah. I don't care. I don't care about that an, I mean, I care, I don't care about that answer. Larry, I, you have the answer, right? LT: I do. Todd Putman: Okay, great. Um, I, I, so I'm really, I'm in, I do care about your answer, but what I would be super fascinated is the trajectory of that answer. What was it 20 years ago and what is it today? I, ah, hypothesize that it's radically changed because of what we spent the last hour and a half talking about. At the end of the day, a CEO certainly leads and manages business. I happen to be with one Steve Cornell right this second, who is exceptional at, at that, but also has this people in thing. I don't know that you can be a CEO today and not have a human element, a touch, a feel. Certainly the successful ones, I mean, there are probably a lot of bad ones, but Larry, my, again, my hypothesis is, is that. The marketers are, are the ones that best know the human people and aspect of their business are closest to it. And so boards are seeing that they're, they're feeling, um, and I've interacted with a lot of boards in this question. They're seeing that, that, that that human element is really what enables these leaders to succeed today. Um, and it's, and it's partially because the, the best marketers, as we have talked about over and over in this whole section, not are just data or, or can read a P&L, I expect that for sure, um, to know the, the intimacies and the economics of the business. DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: If they go above and beyond that by using their people and instincts to create a vision for what could not be if I weren't there. That's the difference. Um, and I see it, I see it over and over again. And the, and typically. There's an exception to this for sure, but typically of all the functions, um, marketers are becoming the winners in that, in that game. So, Larry, I don't know if you have the number. Um, let's go, let, let's, let's let DC go, but I'll bet you that number has changed from X to Y and that's the material question that we would deal with. LT: Yeah, I don't have the previous number, but I I, it, it leads us, I think into, I, I hear you fully. I'd love to hear DC's point of view on this, but I, I have, um, and I've posited a little bit about this before on previous podcasts, but I, I have a very direct, uh, point of view as it relates not just to the, again, the people-ing and marketing side, but some of what I think issues are with businesses as it relates to some of the leaderships that are happening today. Dee, what are your thoughts about this? DC: I'll give you the number and then I'll give you my rationale. I'm going to say, 15 to 20%. My rationale is, is the following. Uh, before I got my MBA and worked in marketing, the CEOs were largely attorneys. They were largely attorneys. Mm-hmm. Then after, Todd Putman: that's a terrible idea. DC: Yeah. But, but this is what, this is what it was. Then after that, it was largely finance people. Todd Putman: Sure. DC: And I think that's still, I think they, I would, as a discipline, working in finance, I would think that's the majority. So now I think we have a combination of finance, marketing, I think there are still some attorneys. And now finally tech and I think marketing is, is probably the second lowest of the four. That would be my, my guess. So I'm saying 15, 20%. Todd Putman: Okay, I'm gonna, can I take the over on that? LT: Okay. So you got the over, Todd Putman: I'm gonna say 20% plus LT: o. Okay. So you guys are both right, depending on what, uh, marker you're gonna go for. So I, I went to ChatGPT and Gemini for this. You guys all right? DC: Yeah. Okay. LT: So, um, and so they did verify one another. The numbers are very close. So here's where, uh, uh, DC was right. Uh, roughly 20% of Fortune 500 CEOs have, have, um, some type of sales and marketing backgrounds. So it's not DC: Oh, sales market? Sales, yeah. LT: Okay. So 20%, but right now, only 10% of the Fortune 250 have, it's approximately 10% have a marketing background, and only 4% have actually had a CMO type role. Oh, wow. That, wow. Todd Putman: Numbers are So it's very small. Way lower than I thought. LT: Me too. And here's the, here's the bigger point, and this is what I, where I wanna, uh, evolve our conversation to before we hit the close. Um, it's basically 70, 70% plus come from operations or finance, you guys. Yeah. 70%. Right? And so that's what I want to talk about. You can see it when you pay attention as a consumer. And then a, if you're a Brand Nerd like we are, um, I'm gonna throw, I'm gonna throw out some companies, like when you go Chipotle, I'm a big fan of Chipotle. When you try and get their rewards program, okay, it is a bitch to get a goddamn burrito reward. And it should be the opposite. The, these are people that are are consuming your product, sign up for your rewards program. You should make it so frictionless and seamless so that they continue to want more. And I've had the frustration, I'm just using them, but there's a lot of other examples. And so that comes from a very numbers finance driven mentality that yeah, we sort of have to have this rewards program, but it costs a shit ton of money. And so, you know, the less, the less that people actually, uh, you know, uh, convert that into free stuff, the better it is for our bottom line and that, so that manifests itself in small things like that. And that's a small thing that becomes a larger thing because it becomes part of. Uh, we talk about this all the time, Todd, we, the brand activation wheel, like every touch point you have with a brand, it's like building muscle. It's, you're either building muscle or you're losing muscle. So every touch point you have is gonna be positive or negative. Very, very few are in the middle. Uh, and, and so I think that 70% is really not good for the connections of, uh, again, if these companies really want to elevate the connection to have people really emotionally connect with their brands, uh, they're gonna lose something when you're very cost and finance driven as opposed to somebody who is more open and is thinking about the connection that one has with the brand. And they're gonna wanna make that connection at every, at every point of check-in, be something that's positive. That's my soliloquy. DC: Todd? Todd Putman: Yeah, I, I mean, that's hard to disagree with, but again, I'm thinking about this audience and Brand Nerds and like, okay, what do, what do I get out of that? Um, you won't get, uh, if you, so if you're a brand manager today, you're not gonna get to the C-suite without a deep understanding and the ability to understand a P&L Yes.Not gonna happen. LT: No doubt. And I, I just wanna make clear, I'm not suggesting otherwise. No doubt. Todd Putman: No, no, no, no, no, no. You're, you're, you're like, okay, they got, they gotta have that. But I, I think to the audience, you got, you gotta have that. If you don't, if you don't have the p and l, great, then move into something else. But if you have an aspiration to moving up in management, whether general management president, CEO, whatever, um, having the recognition of how the business moves day in, day out mm-hmm. Um, uh, is a, is a, is a cost of entry full stop. And I think what you and I are arguing or debating is if you have that and you are in a consumer, you know, heavy consumer business, uh, like Chipotle, then having a insight, a capability around people and is what our, what our thesis is, and that I'll stand behind a hundred percent because you get LT: Agreed. Todd Putman: You get, you know, loyalty programs like that, that are run by operators or by finance folks and they, they don't get to where they want to go because they don't have the human element in incorporated in. So, couldn't agree with you more, but I, I think it's for this audience, you know, start with where you want to go. What do you wanna be when you grow up? What do I need to get there? And if that means I, I want to be a CEO better damn well understand the P&L for sure. DC: I concur. Todd Putman: Yeah. LT: Yeah. Cool. All right. That was awesome. We are into the close. I know DC's got a, a great close for Todd. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit. Man, there's so many learnings and, and I love Todd had the orientation. Todd Putman: Wait, wait, do I get a, so wait, wait, this is like a, this like a jury. Does he get the last close or do I get a close on his close? LT: You know what, if, if he Todd Putman: Do, I have close first and any closes, I don't get it. LT: He and I are gonna decide whether you get the last close or not. You might get the mic drop though. DC: He, he gets the last close. He, he gets the last close. He gets to do it. Todd Putman: Okay. LT: Yeah. You, you're the guest. Alright. Tons of great learnings, Brand Nerds. And again, Todd, thank you for thinking of the brand nerds, like in, in all of your thoughtful responses. Like how can this help them? Yeah, we've talked about that, right? The people that are really striving wanna fast track. So here's, uh, I wanna shout out a lot of the things that Todd said to put it in cogent place here. Uh, the, so I, I've got a, I've got about eight learnings and uh, uh, and um, I'm gonna hit 'em. So number one, maybe we should call marketers. Peoples love that, the innate sense of humans and you elevate up and inspire people around insights. That's really something we want to think about more and, and cogitate on. That's number one. Number two, Brand Nerds, You should be mindful with great foresight. Foresight about your career every step of the way. Like Todd Sturdy with dc He knew everything that was going on in Houston, but he really didn't have the answer as it related to what he wanted to do with your career. You need to be thinking of, of your career and every step of the way. Number three. Todd's very learned view Brand Nerds for qualities you should enhance or accelerate for great success. I'm gonna list off a bunch of 'em. Alright, starting with comfortable in their own si. Skin vision. See things other people don't being consumer obsessed. Love your business. Bring your heart constant. Curiosity. Be vulnerable. Use touch words for communication. Lead inspire others to follow. And then the P&L part, you gotta know your P&Ls and where numbers fit and just a few more. So those are the qualities. A few more great learnings. Sometimes when you get thrown into a job that feels like not the greatest assignment like Todd was, with lava, that could be the greatest thing for you. Without the spotlight, it may provide you the opportunity for you to really learn and succeed. Next one, for F ups, no one really great, does not have a list of 10. Your job is to push and always pu push. Next one. You must consciously manage your constituencies along the way. ie. the Coke commercial, Henry Schimberg. The next one. I have two more. Don't use AI or any tech that takes advantage of people's vulnerabilities as people or as marketers. We can never do that. And last one, like Todd, how can you apply Brand Nerds, your wonderful people and marketing skills for good? Those are mine. Todd Putman: Wow. Are great. DC I don't know. You can't top that. I mean, I don't know how you close on that. DC: I, I don't, I I'm not competing with this. Todd Putman: Yeah. I'm like, Larry, can you follow me around? DC: Just say, I just do what I do. Todd Putman: Yeah. Larry, just follow me around and, and like, you know, like summarize my, my world as I go. That would, that was that. Nice job. LT: I'll be your AI. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: Very, very good. Larry. As usual brother. As usual. Alright, Todd. Todd Putman: Yes sir. DC: This juncture of this wonderful program. I'm. With all of our guests. My attempt is to articulate what is it that this human before us has offered is offering and will continue to offer the world that is unique to them. No one else of the 8.1 or 2 billion people on the planet have it the way this person has it, in my opinion. So if we don't get it from this person, we're not gonna get it in this way. And over the course of seven years of doing this podcast, Todd, this part of the program has been most difficult for me with people I know because I think I know them and sometimes it comes to me and sometimes it doesn't. This is with everybody, but most certainly with people that I know. In this case, I'm going to tell you and the Brand Nerds what I think it is that Todd Putman is offering us that no one else does in the way you do it. So let me go through how I arrived here before we got in, into the Get Comfy question. Right after the introduction, you, you, you went into this peopley rather than marketers, right on brand for you Todd. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: Right on brand. Then when we got to five questions, the first question was about your first branding experience that you loved P&G Lava soap, you were failing, but you got lava soap. They probably didn't care whether you did anything with it or not. They just wanted to get you onto something else. Something else. That's true. So they gave you Lava soap. What do you do? You go to talk to the people that do oil changing. Which then led you to drag racing, uh, 100 mile radius around Cincinnati notwithstanding the second question of who's had the most, uh, or had the most had or having the most influence on your career. You talked about Jeff Dunn, whom we love. Jeff Dunn is a peopler. On the third question, we asked your biggest F up, you went to Carrot Top, but you acknowledged in your learning that you skipped a key constituent, the great inimitable in Shimberg who is a human. Todd Putman: Yeah. DC: On the fourth question, we got into technology. You went straight to information data that is about people's personal vulnerabilities and failings. Larry, you mentioned this. We marketers should not do that. We might be able to do that, but morally we should not do that again. People. And then finally on the question of what are you most proud of? You went to the joy that you have in the success of other people. All of this is people. Everything about this podcast with you is people, everything. LT: Yep. DC: Which then leads me to what I believe in my description. That is Todd Putman. What is Todd Putman? What does Todd Putman offer? The world? And I think it's this. You are the intuitive architect of human connection, imagination, and compassion. That's you. Todd Putman: That's a mic drop. That's a mic drop moment. Yeah. Can I retort? DC: Uh, you, you can give your close, but you retorting is not, is not, no. You cannot retort. But go ahead. Yes, you can retort. Go ahead. Todd Putman: I'm gonna retort. I, you know what's interesting about what you just said and a little bit what Larry just said is that, and we kind of relate it back to Brand Nerds and what they do every single day. We deal in cohorts, we deal in these, you know, massive groups, you know, 18 to 20 or gut healthy individual, whatever we deal in mm-hmm. These segments, right? DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And what's interesting about what you started, and I guess how, how you, uh, I didn't know this, but how you close these things was what is the individual bringing to the world? DC: Mm-hmm. Todd Putman: And I'm gonna double down on that. If we as marketers could do a really good job of noticing a couple of individuals in either in our brand world or in our, you know, in our, in our teams world, approaching. People from an individual case. It takes time, takes more work, takes all those things. But you, you did this summation of, not of the, of the group, but of the individual happened to be me, which I thought was, you know, amazing and terrific and humbling. But boy oh boy. If you could end this thing by saying, if we could all do a better job of dealing when we're, when we're in the moment of not dealing with cohorts and segments and groups and clusters, but dealing with individuals and what it is they want or need from us, boy, I'm gonna argue that, that it's probably gonna be a better day for both of us. That was, that was terrific. That was terrific. DC LT: Yes, no problem. So Todd, before he, you get the last word here? Todd Putman: I, no, I don't. Got no more words. I don't, I got no, I got no more words. I, I, I invented words. I invented people-ing in this thing. I, I, I'm humbled by this experience. Um. Larry, what you don't know is dc. It says all these really positive things about me, but I'm, I've always been humbled by his success, like the, the places that he, that he has gone has, and across a, a range of things, including this, have always been just a joy in my heart. And so I'm, I'm humbled by you guys inviting me, um, being a part of this. You know, I, I tried to throw zingers as often as I could. I probably didn't enough, but, uh, I really appreciate the time, the energy and, and what you guys are bringing to the world. LT: Thank you. That's a mic drop, Todd, thank you so much. Todd Putman: Thank you. LT: Brand Nerds, thanks for listening to Brands, Beats, and Bytes, the executive producers of Brands, Beats and Bytes are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin,, Larry Taman, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro DC: The podfather. LT: And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share for those on Apple Podcasts if you are so inclined. We love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to it next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing and people.