Latest / Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner / Where Do Black Men Go to Cry?
Transcript
- Betamax84: have no male friends I would feel comfortable crying with, period. if anything, you know, the the woman I'm seeing now gives me a safe place a safe place to break down sometimes if if things are really overwhelming. But other than that, man, no. Because you don't want you don't want someone to judge your manhood based on your emotional content of that moment, R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Betamax84: even though we're all having similar experiences. Mike Turner: everybody, just looked at the data. 98% of you viewing these videos are not subscribed. Huge. I know we're just getting started, but the 98% of you that are watching, please subscribe. Thank you. hey everybody, appreciate everybody joining us. Welcome to another episode of Don Talk. We got a good conversation going here. so we got Saif special guest here, and then Manasseh you know, this conversation came about 'cause 'cause I ended up seeing one of your posts, Saif, and you was like it was a random post off of your normal topic. First of all, I'll start there. Betamax84: Yeah, yeah. Mike Turner: And you were saying, like, where do men go to break down and And cry and you made the statement, and I'll play it here in a little gap, you made the statement that you go in your car. Like Betamax84: Absolutely. Yeah. Mike Turner: like and that's so that's the that's a topic. Like number one, do we ha why don't we break down? Why don't we cry in front of folks? And why you have to make it private? And so those are the questions we're gonna try to get to and ask. So let's start with that. For you Betamax84: Yeah. Mike Turner: particularly, why your car? Betamax84: Yeah, well firstly, my name is Saif tag name is Betamax eighty four on IG. I usually do sports and sports talk, but you know, the last few years has been really hard, you know. for those in this administration, I don't want to make it political, but you know, this economy, it can be very trying for those. You know, I went through a huge breakup with my fiance in the last last year. And, you know, those things are hard. And I just feel like I have a very close set of friends. Men don't really let go in front of other men. It's just not something we do. I can't speak for white men, but I know for black men it's just not something we do. There's a lot of masculinity tied up in our in our ethnicity. And so I find that when I let go and I'm like, yo, this is overwhelming, or I'm praying, I'm like, Lord, please, like, let get me through. I go to my car, or in the shower as a secondary place, but definitely in my car first. I think women definitely have more of a support group to cry and help heal each other. But when you're a man, yo, it's on you. You better figure it out. There's nobody R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, right. Right. You better figure it out. Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: coming to save you. There's nobody coming to pick you up and make sure you're okay. You have to figure out your own mental health. And I'll also say this you know, I I went to therapy after that breakup. I was talking to a therapist for six months to help me through it. Like, yo, it's it's hard out here. So I know. I was thinking to myself, like, and my therapist said this. He was like, yo, you're not the only person going through this. And I'm like, it feels like it. You know, and he was just like, just be aware that other people are struggling too. And so that's what kind of prompted the post. You know, I I try to make it funny, like, you know, if you're not, if this isn't you, keep scrolling. But at the end of the Mike Turner: Yeah. huh. Betamax84: day, it's like, yo, where are y'all letting loose and trying to be okay at? R. Manasseh Thornton: You know, I think another part of that too is that I think I think the the need to have to go somewhere in solace i is kind of layered because sometimes you don't even know why you're crying. You don't know like because because being vulnerable comes with questions, you know what I'm saying? Like well, what's wrong with you? Like Betamax84: Will you preach? Mike Turner: Ha ha ha. R. Manasseh Thornton: when you know what I mean, like what's what's going on? Like what what what what's happening? You like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't have the answers to those things at the moment. And so yeah, you gotta find a quiet place to kind of let loose because if somebody asks you why, you don't always have a reason. You don't always have the exact reason. Betamax84: Yo, sometimes it can be a trigger. For me, it's mostly music. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm. Betamax84: if I'm listening to Jay-Z sometimes or Erica Badu, and they'll have a line that hits you right where you are in the moment, and I'll just start crying. You R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: know what I mean? And it sometimes it's a trigger, but yes, sometimes you don't even know why you're crying. Mike Turner: Yeah. I definitely know it's a it's a trauma response. And that's one of the things I'm working on internally is I'm I'm working with the Eastern medicine doctor and you know, Betamax84: Mm. Mike Turner: he believes that especially black men can't truly get healed with by seeing Western medicine individuals. Betamax84: Mm-hmm. Mike Turner: so he's opened up another door to me and I'm the realizing that there's a lot of trauma undealt with trauma that I'm dealing with that can that's Prevent me from having these conversations, prevent me from talking, prevent me from crying. Like Betamax84: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mike Turner: my assignment for today is he literally wants me to go hug a tree. Betamax84: Yeah. Mike Turner: And just like be in that with the earth and just hug a tree. It's not gonna judge me, it's not gonna talk about me. It's just me the rooted and grounded in that space and just report back to him what I feel. Betamax84: Listen, th first of all, the you get me on here to talk about this is monumental and I hope other people will be able to to pick pieces out of this. But my personal therapist was Filipino. I wanted a male and I wanted a person of color, right? I couldn't find Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Betamax84: a black therapist, so I found a Filipino one. And there's just something different in speaking to p a person of color to assist you in getting through your journey. I I don't I don't live my life through the lens of a white male. And that's okay. I I am a black male. I know how I was raised. I know the traumas that I've been through and the things that I experience on a daily basis. And it can be overwhelming. It can be overwhelming. And that's outside of your own personal issues. You know? So R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Betamax84: so I I I'm always I'm always a proponent of yo, go talk to somebody because there's so many toxic traits that are just linked. to being a black male that I don't necessarily want to ascribe to. I don't. I don't want to take R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yes. Betamax84: that with me and teach my kids that. R. Manasseh Thornton: And it's it's Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: hard. I have two boys. I have a 14-year-old Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: and 15-year-old and a 14-year-old, 13-year-old sons. And and and that that is that has been such a part of you know, my raising them is this this like cross that you have to bear as a black man born into this country. You automatically have to start having conversations that don't that other races just don't have to have. There there's a freedom to not being black in this country where Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: you don't have to even have the hey listen, man, you and your friends going to the mall. All right, so check this out. I need you to like Betamax84: Mm. R. Manasseh Thornton: be very careful of how you move. If it's more than two or three of y'all in there, make sure you're visible. Cause if somebody steals something, they're gonna assume it's you. Why would they assume it's me, dad? Yeah, I ain't doing nothing. Hey, listen, that's just the way it is. That just the way it is, bruh. That statement, Mike Turner: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: like that's just the way it is. Betamax84: Yo, listen, I'm not gonna cry on this podcast. I'm gonna tell you that right now. So if y'all, if y'all trying to get me to break down here, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, I gonna get me. Yeah, I gonna get me. R. Manasseh Thornton: Hahahaha Mike Turner: Okay. If we could get you, that's the goal. We're gonna make it happen. Betamax84: I I'm saying how do I pronounce your name, brother? R. Manasseh Thornton: Manasseh. Betamax84: Manasseh. What you're saying is so legit. I have two girls, okay? and I'm blessed. My my oldest is absolutely brilliant. But my conversations with them are different as black women, okay? As a black male, you your conversation with your sons are different. It's just different, you know. Most most non-black people don't come into that unless they happen to to adopt black children. and I think there's a celebrity who was talking about it. she did the blind side, what's her name? Sandra Bullock was talking about this and Mike Turner: Sandra Bullock, yes, she's she's had some black edge, yes. Betamax84: it went viral. And I was like, She's preaching, you know. It's to eternally be gaslit to tell you that you're wrong when you know you're right. You're like, my experience is different. Why are you telling me? It's like if you're t if I'm if I'm a beaver and all I do is is is eat wood every day and then somebody's gonna tell me, you shouldn't be eating wood. I'm a beaver. That's what I do. Like this is the life that we're living. So to to open up about our emotions and to be vulnerable is not something that we're taught. Period. Mike Turner: Yeah. And that's and that's the key thing. It's like, so why and I know it's it's history, but why has do we feel necess it feel it necessary that we have to hide these emotions? Like you name places that are so private, your Betamax84: Uh-huh. Mike Turner: shower, your car, like do we have do you have any friends that you could be that emotional with? But why do we feel like it has to be so private and we can't show anybody? Betamax84: I have no male friends I would feel comfortable crying with, period. if anything, you know, the the woman I'm seeing now gives me a safe place a safe place to break down sometimes if if things are really overwhelming. But other than that, man, no. Because you don't want you don't want someone to judge your manhood based on your emotional content of that moment, R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Betamax84: even though we're all having similar experiences. R. Manasseh Thornton: Now now I have I've I have some friends. I have I'm lucky enough to have a a really great tribe of friends that I'm an emotional person. I I Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: I I kind of wear mine on my sleeve when it when Betamax84: Same. R. Manasseh Thornton: necessary. And so my friends have seen me break down in in you know in front of them. And Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: and and some of them, you know, it broken down in front of me. And you know, now You're gonna get you gonna get laughed at later. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like we'll bring it back up later on. Like, hey man, like you was you Betamax84: Sure. You gon' drag you. They're gon' drag you. R. Manasseh Thornton: was letting them things fly, wasn't you? Like, you know what Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm saying? Like, we'll get a little joke in, but I do I do have a a a surrounding of friends who I can be vulnerable with, but I think that it's very rare. And like, you know, and like like you said, it's just the fact that it it makes you appear weak based on the way that we were raised. You just Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: don't show that emotion. I rarely saw my dad cry if it wasn't like in church or something like that. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, Betamax84: Never. Yeah, never. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: it it was it was a rarity to see that, to see a grown man break down into tears if somebody hadn't died. You know what I mean? It had to be something tragic. Somebody had to die, somebody had had to be really sick, but like just to be overwhelmed. And and and and kind of and the cup flowing over because of that. You rarely see guys even admit that. Like, man, you know, I'm just overwhelmed. Like I'm I I don't know what which way is up right now. I'm I'm I'm tired, Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm I'm exhausted, I'm I ain't getting touched the way I want to. I I mean everything feels like it's coming in on you, and you you try to find a say a quiet place to to kind of let that go. almost in the sense of like the incredible hawk, like David Banner, right? Like you Betamax84: Yep. Yep. R. Manasseh Thornton: you like, man, you don't wanna see me when I'm angry. So you kinda like try to be this very like, you know, quiet, docile, shhy, like I'm not gonna let it out. Because if I let it out, what w I don't even know what's gonna happen if I let it Betamax84: Yes, absolutely. Mike Turner: Does that beg the question that if you if we don't have people that we could be emotional around, are we hanging around the wrong people? Betamax84: Yeah, what let me let me rephrase I have a solid set of friends. Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: I wouldn't feel comfortable crying around them. That's me. My friends, when they heard about my breakup, they were like, yo, do you need us to come visit you? Do you need us to come stay with you? Because they knew what I was going through. Right? I'm not saying that. I'm saying the w the things that I'm dealing with, for me to have taken giant steps. And emotional vulnerability and b emotional vulnerability and being honest are tantamount for me. Right? I don't think everybody's there. And I think as we get older, we get a little bit softer because we're understanding that life is precious and nothing's promised. And just learning that, yo, I don't subscribe to the monolith of whatever being a black man is supposed to be. I'm a human being and I get to live out my life experience. as I see fit. Right? They still make make fun of black people who play with Legos and are Lego collectors. It's like, corny ass again. Like, wh R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, yeah. Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: why can't why can't he be corny and collect and make Legos or a Star Wars builder or or a bird watcher or whomever or an intellectual? Like R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Absolutely. It it yeah, it and that ja that's such a great point because you know, the the show that's out now, the the spinoff of snowfall, the the Betamax84: I know what you're talking about. Yeah. The the the get up or the re up or something. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, the get up or something like that. I I was I'm watching that and even with snowfall, just the culture of like of of of LA. You guys are from LA or or you know, at least live there or and and Mike, you're from there. the culture is so fascinating to me because you have in real time black people, especially black men, who don't want who are not that tough, who are not. You know, a gangster by by nature, but had to turn themselves into that because of this culture. How many you know weirdo Lego block dudes is, you know, was on the block, you know, back in the day? How many of those anime guys would have really been into that stuff if they would have been Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: allowed to just be who they are? And most of us are have have changed or morphed into something that we are not because of how we have been raised. Betamax84: Because of the culture. But I said R. Manasseh Thornton: Because of the culture. Betamax84: there's there's a a phrase I I don't know if you've heard, and I I've never forgot it. It was genius affects every single person on the earth proportionally, regardless of financial situation. He was saying that you a genius in New York is one out of a million, or whatever the whatever the odds are, is the same in the Sahara, one out of a million. The only difference In being able to actualize their genius is their access to wealth. And it always makes me think how many young brothers got gunned down, jammed up, and never got to actualize their genius because of this culture. You know, it's wild to me. So I don't, I don't judge, I mean, I live in LA. There's so many types of different brothers in LA. It's a great place for that. I never judge anybody on what they do. Like, yo, whatever you're doing and it makes you happy, it doesn't matter that you're black and doing something. Mike Turner: Yeah. I think when you think when you look at the mentality of of gangs I grew up in Inglewood, like that's a emotion joining a gang more times than not is an emotional response to not receiving the love, care, support that they wanted at home so it triggers an emotional response to say, I want this, I can get this from these group of brothers or men or whoever that's in that gang. That's what it really is. So Betamax84: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Turner: you're feeling emotions R. Manasseh Thornton: yeah. Mike Turner: to to yield you to receive that, but you just are expressing it in a unhealthy manner. R. Manasseh Thornton: What about the the the guys that just felt forced into it, didn't have a choice because, you know, they, you know, I had a I have a a frat brother of mine who's, you know, was my grandmother lived like he lived in like the Crypt neighborhood, but his grandmother lived in the blood neighborhood, and that's where he, you know, he spent most of his time. Right. And so you you know, this guy is creative, he's an artist and all of these things. He he didn't want to have to join. It's just, it's just you do it because you have you kind of have to do it, right? And you Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: have to become this kid, Mike Turner: I don't yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: become this person, a version of of what everybody else is, just so that you can become safe and and have that safety net there. Right? So to me, it's like we have so many black men walking around who don't even know who they are. Like we don't even know exactly who we could be Like the the softness that a lot of us carry that we will never show people because it just shows weakness. You're gonna be a Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: sucker. Women will think that you weak sometimes. Like it it's it's nonstop. It ain't just guys. Women like, he too soft, he too nice. It's like, where do you win? Like, you know, what where do you want me to be? There's a ver there's not a real version of this person out here. Betamax84: Yo. Yo, you can you could you could Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: you could literally be on stage talking about this in two four hour stess sessions at a TED talk. Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: It because it goes so deep. It really does. I've never forgotten the women that have said foul things to me that made me ooh, ooh, I got I can never show her that side of me. Like, I I gotta be I gotta be a G. Like you know how you you start every villain story? Like there's a lot of women. Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: You know, in my younger years playing ball, there's a lot of women I hurt because of the women that hurt me. You know? It's like, don't you care? Nah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, yeah. Betamax84: I sure don't. And inside I'm dying. But I'm like, yo, I don't give a I don't give a duck. Girl about you. It's sad. R. Manasseh Thornton: And it's learned behavior Mike Turner: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: because I've seen how those guys treat you and you still want to get back with them, right? You still want to be with them. And so the nice guy finished last thing. I I feel all of that. All of that is this encapsulate encapsulation of us trying to live into in this society where they tell us how to be. They tell us what we are. We already know that we're danger. Our skin is our sin, all of these different Betamax84: Yeah, all that. R. Manasseh Thornton: things. And it makes us as black men like one-dimensional. We're like this one-dimensional, all even though everyone knows on this planet how multidimensional we are as a as a culture. We bring the sauce, we we have the you know the ideas, we we we bring the culture, but somehow we are kind of minimized to this one like. This one sidedness of of life where we can't explore multiple sides of our personality because we would seem too weak. It's it's very exhausting. Betamax84: If I could just piggyback on that, like it's so important what you're saying, and also understanding that it also creeps into our media and the things that we watch, right? I don't know if you guys watched Lanterns this season. Mike Turner: Yes. Betamax84: That show was a breakthrough in a black director, black writers, and allow the studio allowing them to just carry it. And the reason it went so hard is because it showed another facet of blackness and what what it means to grow up like that and then have the expectations of greatness and being a superhero. That's that's that's the TV show. But we don't we don't get enough of that. We'll get snowfall until our eyes bleed. Yeah I mean running R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes. Yes. Betamax84: banging the street see your eyes bleed. You don't get the the hero story or somebody doing something great. That those are few and far between that's why we latch on so hard. So it's also it also encapsulates I'm sorry it also creeps into our psyche in this in the media we watch. I personally I I have a rule, I don't watch any more slave movies. Mike Turner: Mm. Betamax84: I won't I won't do it. My boy's did you see? I said, nah, I'm off that. R. Manasseh Thornton: with you. Stopped. No, I'm not watching no more of that man. Betamax84: I think the last the last slave movie I saw was Twelve Years a Slave was the last one I saw. And I was like, never again. I'm done. Why? Because I R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. I think Django might have been. Betamax84: don't want that in my brain anymore. That and how many times R. Manasseh Thornton: And how many times? How many times we got it? Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: the in slavery isn't the beginning and ending of black history. It's just a moment in time that keeps r rerunning over and over and over and I I'm done. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, I agree with that a hundred Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: percent. Mike Turner: Yeah. I'm gonna jump back to what you were saying earlier, Manasseh. Like I think I would like to think everybody has a choice. I know so many people that grew up in Inglewood and LA that were in those neighborhoods where you had to choose to get in the gang or not, and made the decision not to. I was fortunate enough to have the right people around me to say, gang members, say, Michael, we don't want this life for you. We see life Betamax84: Mm. Mike Turner: For you outside of this, we're gonna protect you and make sure you're good so you don't get in here. So I had the protection of gangs to make sure that I kept on the straight and narrow to get out and do something with my life. So I I would there's this part of me just thinks that we have a choice. But can you can you R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, but Mike, isn't but isn't that more so of like sports athletes? Like, I I know that that happens for guys Mike Turner: No, I I just R. Manasseh Thornton: who are like talented in sports. You will have the hood look out for you because they it also kind of it it it's it's their victory too, right? Because Betamax84: Thanks. R. Manasseh Thornton: if you if you a dog, they like, nah, nah, you don't need to live like this, Shorty. Go on, go on get that that record, go on hit that basketball court, whatever. But if you're not talented, if you're not. A standout, do you still get that reprieve? Mike Turner: I think I think it comes down to which is us at what we still deal with as men today. Can you endure the ridicule of being who you're feel you should be to to get to that point? Does that make sense? So like if if you and and so we're still dealing with that today, but you I don't R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. But if you get in your ass whooped like like Betamax84: It it does, Mike. I I th I I don't know, Mike, I f Mike Turner: I don't know that it's that, you know? Betamax84: I feel like you're you're speaking from a position of experience and privilege. In that the things you've endured, you've seen through and now here you are. Right. I I was that kid in New York when I was playing ball. My my older brother ran the streets. They didn't let me run the streets. They're like, yo, nah, get out of here. I'm trying to get in trouble. You know, you you Mike Turner: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, yeah. Betamax84: d you don't know better sometimes. You don't there's so many things now that I know better. because of my age and experience, that in my teens and twenties, I had no idea. Sometimes you just don't know. So the option of choice may not even feel like an option to you. It feels like whatever's happening is your reality. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, especially at that age. Mike Turner: So then so then so now that yields, are we still making a choice today to hide the emotions? We know how beneficial it is for us to release it because it's unhealthy and at a heart rate, you know, blood pressure, all that is affected. And now by us continuing to hold on, we're gonna blow up in the realm that we shouldn't be blowing up in because we didn't let it fester. So are we constantly still making that choice? Not To release it? R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, I think so. I think that I think that the part of the issue though is, you know, it's almost like the the old the old saying where you can tie when a when an elephant is young, you tie them to a tree and then and then when the older Betamax84: Yeah. With a chain, yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: they get, you can actually tie it to a stake and it won't it won't try to move. W Betamax84: With a rope and they won't go nowhere yet. R. Manasseh Thornton: it won't it won't yeah, it won't go anywhere. and I think that that's a a good analogy for for how we are raised again in this country is that, you know, you you you're put to your feet are put to the fire almost the moment you come into the world and and you end up turning into this thing that once you get older you realize that the things that were harming you were harming you. But like how do I change? How do I change Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: it? How do I I mean, I know that it ain't no ain't healthy for me, but I've been doing this my whole life. I've been popping off when somebody says something my whole life. Anytime I'm feeling any kind of insecurity, I get mad instead of, you know, actually talking about the issue. You know, I'm I'm cussing people out. You know, I mean, it's just the we know why we're doing it, but we don't know how to fix it. And so I think, yes, we it is a choice, and we can't keep holding on to the trauma of yesteryear, using it as the excuse on why we're not moving forward. I absolutely believe that. Betamax84: Mike, I I gotta go back to an earlier point you made is the importance of therapy. Mike Turner: Mm. Betamax84: a lot of brothers just won't do it. They just won't. They don't they I don't want nobody effing with my head, dog. All right, all right, B. Like I'm trying Mike Turner: Yeah. Betamax84: to tell you that having somebody to talk to and work through these issues, for me to be where I am today versus where I was ten years ago and ten years prior to that is monumental. The way I compartmentalized emotions, didn't let anybody in. Ice grill wouldn't let chicks in. I was a savage. A savage, but you can't live your life that way. R. Manasseh Thornton: Can but it there's consequences to it. Betamax84: There's con you're right, you can, but there's high consequences for that. Right? So finding a way to speak to somebody. I I like you, Mike, I suggest a person of color and male. There's just there's Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: just a better, a better understanding of what you're going through. Finding somebody that you can talk through because it was a slow it was like like fishing, it was like fishing with guppies for me. I was like, I don't know, Mike Turner: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Betamax84: No, but when you finally when you finally get you and you start bawling in therapy, when you have a breakthrough, you're like, damn. R. Manasseh Thornton: And and I don't wanna knock I don't wanna knock anybody's hustle, but I I agree with the speaking to somebody. I wanna just Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: remind people that it's very important to try to find professionals who can do this. Because and I only say that to say Betamax84: a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Mike Turner: Correct. Yes. R. Manasseh Thornton: that, you know, a lot of times, especially, you know, I'm I'm fifty years old that growing up, it was the only people that black folks would talk to would be their pastors, right? You didn't Black folks didn't go see a counselor, they didn't go see a therapist, they didn't go see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. You went to see your pastor and you talked to your pastor. That's my point. That's my point. I just, you Mike Turner: And most pastors aren't equipped to handle psychological issues. R. Manasseh Thornton: know, you just gotta be careful who you do speak to. Betamax84: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Mike, also, if you gotta find the right therapist. Not every R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes. Mike Turner: Right. Yes. Betamax84: therapist is e is equipped to handle what you're going through. So finding the right person that you feel comfortable with that you can get things from. Yeah, that that all matters. It's like finding the right barber. Not every barber's gonna get your head right. It's very important. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Right. Mike Turner: I d yeah. I done been through six. I done been through six therapists before, like for real. Like I'm not well both R. Manasseh Thornton: Right. But but you know what? It's they are. They're the first Betamax84: Six barbers or therapists? R. Manasseh Thornton: therap. They're the first hood therapist for sure. You know what I mean? But but like it's it's that part of it. It's already hard enough for for men to be vulnerable. And then if they do try to f they find somebody, try to let that down and you know that that wall down. And then that person doesn't do right by them. You know what I mean? Or they feel like they've been portrayed by some trust, or Betamax84: Misled. R. Manasseh Thornton: they, you know what I mean? They're not getting the prop. Then it's like, ball back up, I'm done. You know what I mean? See, I told y'all this is some sucker shit. Like this ain't what Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: this ain't what's hot. You know what I mean? Like y'all just some weak motherfucker. You know what I mean? Y'all just weak. Y'all got to go talk to somebody about your problems, man. Handle the business. Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. And I think, yeah, Betamax84: Right. Mike Turner: and I think this conversation, like you said earlier, Saif, this is monumental for us to be talking about this. You got three brothers Betamax84: Yeah. Mike Turner: on here talking about emotions in a healthy professional way. So what is it going to take for you, Saif, to get to a point of letting that wall down around some of your friends? Obviously, that they care about you and they want the best Betamax84: Yeah. Mike Turner: for you. So what is it gonna take for you to feel comfortable enough to let your wall down so you can be free to express what's going on in in any fashion? Betamax84: Before I get to that, I I wanna say my most important job as a father is preparing my children and making sure they don't go through the same mistakes that I made. Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: Right. So with my daughters, I allow them to speak their mind and speak their emotions. I was never allowed that as a ch as a but shut up. But stay in a child place, boy. Who you talking to all that. You go on folks. But pop Mike Turner: Yeah. It's a it's a grown full conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Betamax84: like All that. So allowing our kids to to discuss their emotions or when I made them feel uncomfortable or made them feel like I was I didn't let them feel heard is really important. personally, I still feel like I'm on my journey. I'm getting better every year, you know, I'm learning every year, I read every year. I'm I think the journey of allowing myself to be emotional and to say how I feel is a constant evolving moment. I used to not say nothing. Guess what how you know I feel? You never saw me again. And that other person could have never known they even did nothing. They're like, damn, what happened to Playboy? He's gone. I'm gone. You all right? I'm good. What happened? Nothing. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Rinse and repeat. Mike Turner: Yeah. I th that that that takes me back to like the the last time that I know I cried. I wasn't physically in front of this guy, but me and Manasseh have a mutual friend. Betamax84: Mm-hmm. Mike Turner: I grew up with him, he met him in college, but I was because I held on all this trauma for so long and it was released itself and work to the point where I knew I was getting treated a certain way and it it There's you can't tell me nothing else, but it was because of the color of my skin. Betamax84: Mm. Mike Turner: And I just reached a point where I couldn't take it no more. I walked off the job. I just couldn't do it. And out of nowhere, our friend Daron just calls me. Like right after this happened. Like, hey man, you were on my mind. Like, what's like something told me to call you? What's going on? And I've known this guy since you might as well say birth. But he just like, I just begin to and cry. Betamax84: Yeah. Mike Turner: And the comforting thing was he didn't stop me. He just let the silence resonate. Betamax84: Be there. Mike Turner: Which was nah man, don't watch what you're crying for. It wasn't none of that. He just let let allowed me to let it out to the point where once I was able to talk, just now let's what's going on. Like I would love for everybody to experience that, you know. R. Manasseh Thornton: And that's important part. Yeah. That's the important part of Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: it too, is that that portion of it. And that's the thing that we gotta get out of, you know, out of our heads, is that it is really the conversation is is really what creates the the avenue for some of this stress to be relieved. It's just the fact that you don't talk about it. Right. We just we just compound and compound and compound Mike Turner: Yes. Yes. Betamax84: Mm. R. Manasseh Thornton: and compound that at some point, yes, that all is gonna overflow. You can't keep it in. Just the the the speaking about it. And it ain't always that you're gonna get an answer for what it is, but the fact that you get it from within and you get it out into the universe and you can say it and you like, man, I feel so vulnerable. I feel so like I feel like I was taken advantage of. Like I don't know, you know what I mean? That just those words will be able to start releasing some of that tension. And that is paramount, bruh. Just to be able to talk to somebody. Betamax84: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to your point, Mike, I Mike Turner: Yeah. So so that Betamax84: mean being able to have a friend to just allow you to process your emotions and then afterwards be like, yo, you want to talk about it now? You know what I mean? Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: Those those are the friends that are going to be with you for life. And obviously he was. He's been with you for life. I just think more men of color, because that's all I can speak to, more men of color need to understand they're not a monolith. They don't have to live their life in someone else's footsteps. It's okay to be emotional. It's okay that things aren't working out or what have you. It's okay to cry. Yeah, I mean that's why that's why I I did the post in the first place. I'm like, where are y'all crying at? Like everybody acting like it's all good. Like somebody's crying somewhere. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Turner: Right. Right. It's it ain't good. It ain't good. We are not good. Like I'm telling R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Mike Turner: you right now, we're not and we need people need to release somewhere. You know. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Betamax84: Right. Things falling apart left and right. Society's going sideways. You know what I mean? Money ain't what it used to be. Hundred dollars is the new twenty dollars. It's wild outside. R. Manasseh Thornton: It's wild out here. It's wild out here. But again, but it but it's the it's that social media, the fakeness of the social media that would make you think that everybody's still rocking, everybody's still Betamax84: Yep. R. Manasseh Thornton: popping bottles, everybody's still on yachts, everybody's still Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: going to the games. It's like and I I I'm with you. I'm I'm looking around, I'm talking to my friend group, and I'm like, where are where are all these people getting this money? Where Betamax84: What are we? R. Manasseh Thornton: how are people living? Like this is insane. Like Betamax84: Didn't you just cop a new Porsche? R. Manasseh Thornton: What? What you bought you a 400 gallon truck? Like what are you talking about? Betamax84: R- You bought a F-250B? R. Manasseh Thornton: What are we doing? But it's but that but that's the thing. Like you we are we are being this social media is really kind of not telling us the truth about where we all standing in our spaces Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: in in the current moments. Like in this current moment, I I don't a lot of people are just not doing okay. They're not well. They're sad. There's no hope. Betamax84: And yo, Manessa l let me jump in, bro. Like the ability to share, I think is really important. And Mike, I appreciate you guys inviting me on because this is a a very great conversation. I was afraid to tell my friend that me and my fiance didn't work out. Cause he had met her, he liked her, he was like, she's good for you, B, you know, whatever what have you. So I held that back like what we were going through. When I finally told him when it was the end, I was a wreck. And he was like, Dog, are you okay? And just so you know, my other boy just went through the same thing that you just went through. Do you need me to come up there? Do you need me to just listen? And that's what I need. I needed him to just listen what I was going through. My Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: in my mind, his judgment, in my mind, he was gonna be judgmental. The reality was it's not something that he even considered. He was immediately like, yo, are you okay? R. Manasseh Thornton: Big that because that little bit of doubt will will keep us holding on to shit that we could easily release. You Betamax84: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: know what I mean? Like that, like we we will stop from having that conversation with whoever it is, our significant other, our kids, our boss, our friends. We that man, what are they gonna think if I say that these words out of my mouth? And it's Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: like we're holding on to a lot of trauma and a lot of stress because of that fear. Of what somebody else may say. And I'm my my thing to anybody who may be listening out there is don't allow that fear to to you know to overtake you. Don't allow that fear to keep you from saying the thing that you just need to say. It will not be the end of the world. Whatever it is, it's not gonna be the end of the world. It'll just be a circumstance that has to be worked through. But we will hold on and hold on to not just that. But a a ton of the other things that's going on in our life, plus whatever's happening in real life, like the stuff that we Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: have no control over. You know, the shit that's going on in Mike Turner: Every yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: our world right now, we don't have no control over that stuff in our everyday life. Betamax84: Crazy. R. Manasseh Thornton: It's craziness, right? It affects us. Mike Turner: Yeah. And then you got you got prominent you got prominent people. I I don't even want to use the word prominent with this guy in the same sentence because I can't stand him. Stephen A. Smith. Like I hope Betamax84: We know. this guy. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm. Mike Turner: there's some backlash for him talking about an NFL player who's going who ridiculed him for retiring because he needs to take care of his mental health. I mean, Stephen A that Betamax84: Yeah, I'll probably be talking about that exact thing. Yeah. Mike Turner: I hope he gets in trouble for that because you just drew the line there, but yet he promoted mental health when his Mom passed away and and that but when somebody else does it, it's not a good thing. But that goes everything we talked about here is what I've been told and learned about is we are living in a performing for acceptance mentality. Betamax84: Mm. Mike Turner: Like we all perform to be accepted. Now, can we in today's society, in today's world, and everything that we've been through, you go back to the Eldest person that you know, they perform to be accepted. Can we break beyond that to be our true selves? Is that possible? Betamax84: I I gotta start off by saying, man, at this stage in my life, I'm heavy on you have to be authentic and you must protect your energy from these vultures, pack rats, and savages out here because they will literally strip you dry. To your earlier point, it's why my social media page, while hyperbolic, is also very based in who I am. I don't prefer it's Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: not performative. This it this is me. If you don't like it. I got a huge bump from those videos, by the way, which was great. But at the end of the day, if I didn't, that's cool. I'm still gonna keep being me. Right? You can't allow people who don't e even know you to suck your energy dry. Mike Turner: Mm. Betamax84: It's really important. Because energy is the only thing on this planet that is neither created nor destroyed. It stays eternal. And your energy as a human being cannot be dominated by someone else's motives. It's so important. And R. Manasseh Thornton: a bar for sure. Betamax84: that's where I am. I'm like, yo. I for people who are not they don't even have to think like me. I don't care if you think like me. That's fine. We can have different think pieces and different opinions. But if we're not on the same energy level, I don't F with you. I don't I'm sorry I don't. I don't have the time. Mike Turner: Yeah. I'm definitely getting to that R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Turner: point. I used to per I w I can admit I used to perform for everybody so everybody can accept me and like me. And I'm Betamax84: Yep. Mm-hmm. Mike Turner: at the point where I'm in between jobs right now and the only people that I'm gonna continue to rock with are the people that's still talking to me right now. Because Betamax84: Absolutely. Mike Turner: they they they know where I'm at and they're accepting me for who I am and what's going on in my life. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Mike Turner: If you ain't rocking with me right now, chances are We ain't rocking when I get that job that has that title and paying that money. Nah, you wasn't there for me when I needed. And now my mentality is you're only after me because of what I got. Betamax84: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: If you ain't been around, don't be around. I think, you know what I mean? I think JID said Mike Turner: There we go. I love it. I love it. Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: that. If you ain't been around, don't be around. Mike Turner: Mm, yeah. Betamax84: Yeah. And that goes for males, females, anybody. Who whoever you rock with. Like R. Manasseh Thornton: It's the it's the energy thing. It's the it's the Mike Turner: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: it's the frequency thing all the way. You're absolutely right. At this stage in my life, I, you know, I know exactly who I am. but but I to your to your question, Mike, I think that it's bit it's becoming increasingly more difficult for for people to be authentic. just because we've we've changed from the consumer to the product and everybody is selling themselves. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody. Betamax84: Y'all done gotta do Mike Turner: Yeah, I like Betamax84: me like this today. Mike Turner: that. R. Manasseh Thornton: Everybody is selling themselves. And so it it's it's like, who are you for real? Because everybody is trying to be create a new character. That's why, you know, I think that Mike was drawn to your, you know, to your your platform, is because you you do seem to be authentic. You know, you you're you're just doing what you do. But let everybody when this camera comes on or this phone comes on is trying to sell some shit and trying to sell a character or trying to Betamax84: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: get a click or a like. I don't know who these people, I don't know who you really are because everybody's trying to be a different version of something. and so it's very exhausting. Betamax84: Bro, Manasa, just just just Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: to jump in, dog. My this is gonna sound insane, but I'm just gonna say it. I went, I almost didn't post that video or the previous one about the NCAA and N N I L. Because I was like, Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: it might be too high brow and people may not get it. And I was like, you know what? If they don't get it, they don't get it. And so I'm gonna post it. You know what I'm saying? You know, I'm I'm a college educated brother who played ball and I have some life experience. You know, I lived in LA. I worked with studios. I've done these things. I've seen some cheddar. I've been broke. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Turner: Yeah. So Betamax84: If you don't if you don't dig it, you don't dig it. Mike Turner: yeah, I'm glad you posted that, man. That's that was amazing. Both of those videos, that's what what got me following you. So I appreciate that. So we're about out of time. So in one minute, Saif, like just tell us, you talked about your journey. Betamax84: Mm-hmm. Mike Turner: If you don't mind briefly just saying, what is a journey that you're on and what do you hope to gain at the end? That's gonna end off the conversation. Betamax84: Yeah, well, respectfully, brother, we're all on a journey of self discovery, of finding out who we really are. You know, some would say the gods inside of us and to learn who we really are, that we have all the answers, but you have to really dig inside. The answers aren't really out there. Sometimes you have to really silence yourself. My journey has really been becoming more authentic to who I am. You know, I was earlier a people preezer. man, I hope these people like me. I don't want Mike Turner: Mm-hmm. Betamax84: them to I speak too proper. I'm not hood enough. I grew up in New York and now I'm in LA. Yo, code switching back and forth. All of this. Just be authentic to who you are. And that's that's been my journey. And so now as a person who I wear many hats. I love entertainment. I work in tech. I work in project management. I've done so many things. It's okay to be able to accomplish a lot with your time. and be authentic to who you are. So I would answer that question and say, man, my journey's just been about self-discovery and becoming more authentic. Not putting anything on, but just taking things away, removing all the BS and just being Mike Turner: That part. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: That's dope. Betamax84: who and just being who I am. R. Manasseh Thornton: That's dope. Mike Turner: Man. I hope and and pray that our authenticity yields us to be able to have more of these conversations with brothers because it's much needed because we're all going through something. We all need to be able to talk about it so as it can get released off our chest. So it's not eating us up and killing us, slowly killing us, slowly affecting our health Betamax84: Absolutely. Mike Turner: and exploding in places that it shouldn't be exploding around. So that's my goal, that's my whole purpose, one of the purposes of having this. Right, this is my authentic self. I like having these conversations. I like helping brothers out, you know. and hopefully we're gonna continue to do that. So I appreciate your time. Thank you so very Betamax84: Yeah. Mike Turner: much for coming on. Until next time, people, we'll do it again.