Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 259: The South African reality check

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Rugby Direct Episode 259: The South African reality check · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Straight
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: down the middle.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Drop it down and score. There's your bonus point. Try.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: He's pumped.
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  Speaker 2: Try. Game over.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith talking
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  Speaker 2: to himself on Rugby Direct. Yes, we didn't have time
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  Speaker 2: before we left Baltimore and Washington and Maryland and Virginia.
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  Speaker 2: to pop in with an episode of Rugby Direct. So
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  Speaker 2: hopefully this will satiate your need for some rugby analysis
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  Speaker 2: before we get back to the usual pod, hopefully at
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  Speaker 2: some point next week. Thursday morning, the dust has settled
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit on rugby's greatest rivalry tour. I think
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  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks, there's a sense of what might
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  Speaker 2: have been. Now, obviously, they were not as good as
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  Speaker 2: South Africa over the course of of those four test matches.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that was especially the case in the fourth,
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  Speaker 2: which was perhaps a bridge too far. The touring around
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  Speaker 2: the world and the amount of games they'd played, et cetera,
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  Speaker 2: et cetera. And some of that had been true for
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  Speaker 2: South Africa as well, but it felt like a bridge
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  Speaker 2: too far against the same opponent for the All Blacks
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  Speaker 2: to play four straight. I think the Baltimore defeat was
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  Speaker 2: probably the meekest of the lot. I just for the
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  Speaker 2: sense that they were not able to find a way
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  Speaker 2: into the game for long periods of the time. It
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  Speaker 2: felt like South Africa, when they scored, would score again,
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  Speaker 2: and that's a fact that's shown on the scoreboard, the
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  Speaker 2: way they went about it. They scored in clusters. The
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks were in it, but they, at halftime, down
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  Speaker 2: by three, 17-14, needed to be the team that came
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  Speaker 2: out of the blocks quickest in the second spell, and
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  Speaker 2: they just weren't able to do that. South Africa scored
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  Speaker 2: with a couple of quick tries and put the game
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  Speaker 2: beyond doubt, even when New Zealand got back to eight.
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  Speaker 2: And Kirtley Aronson goes through and scores. And New Zealand
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  Speaker 2: probably should have got a penalty then, but not to be.
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  Speaker 2: But they can only really blame themselves. The Tupo Vai...
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  Speaker 2: silly clear out that was completely and utterly unnecessary when
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  Speaker 2: the All Blacks were down by eight and on the attack.
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  Speaker 2: That's something and symptomatic of the dumbass penalties that the
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks need to get rid of out of the game.
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  Speaker 2: There are a number of issues that have come out
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  Speaker 2: of the series, of course, but that to me is one.
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  Speaker 2: Other teams don't seem to concede those sort of penalties
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  Speaker 2: that the All Blacks finding themselves in. Yes, they want
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  Speaker 2: to push the limits. Yes, that is the style that
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  Speaker 2: Dave Rennie has asked to be aggressive at the breakdown,
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  Speaker 2: but there are some silly penalties that this All Blacks
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  Speaker 2: team concede that others in world rugby really do. So
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  Speaker 2: that is one. As I say, when they got back
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  Speaker 2: to the game and got to within eight at a
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  Speaker 2: certain point, there was a sense that maybe the momentum
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  Speaker 2: even was swinging a little bit. That's what I sort
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  Speaker 2: of felt at the game, that they had to come
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  Speaker 2: back into it when, Blackadder got the try around the
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  Speaker 2: hour mark and they got back to 29.21. They had
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  Speaker 2: a little bit of momentum there. But what this team
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  Speaker 2: is not good enough at is building pressure. And we've
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  Speaker 2: seen that time and again. Now, going back to the
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  Speaker 2: Tupou Vai instance, they were building pressure. They were on
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  Speaker 2: attack inside the 22, then they were to leave it.
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  Speaker 2: That's happened a number of other times. We saw in
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  Speaker 2: the first spell when they stacked together 30-odd phases and
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  Speaker 2: Will Jordan scored at the end that patience counted. And
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  Speaker 2: the defensive questions they were asking of South Africa, while
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  Speaker 2: South Africa's defence was very good, at some point it
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  Speaker 2: was going to crack, and it did. And this All
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  Speaker 2: Blacks team seems to want to score on first and
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  Speaker 2: second phase, and I get that is a real strength
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  Speaker 2: of it, and we've seen that throughout the series so far,
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  Speaker 2: but I think they need to be better at finding
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  Speaker 2: ways to build pressure inside the opposition red zone. That's
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  Speaker 2: what South Africa have been utterly good at this series.
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  Speaker 2: When they get the ball inside the All Blacks 22,
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  Speaker 2: more often than not, they score or leave with some points. Now,
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  Speaker 2: South Africa on the weekend entered the All Blacks 22-metre
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  Speaker 2: zone 13 times. Dave Rennie said prior to the first
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  Speaker 2: test that they need to close down the amount of
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  Speaker 2: 22 entries that South Africa get. Over the course of
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  Speaker 2: the series, they were simply not able to do that,
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  Speaker 2: and they weren't able to get enough of their own.
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  Speaker 2: The All Blacks had seven in that game. They averaged
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  Speaker 2: four points scoring from each visit. Now, the All Blacks
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  Speaker 2: are not quite as deadly as South Africa with each
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  Speaker 2: 22 entry, although the average points from that game suggests otherwise.
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  Speaker 2: But South Africa, when they get in there, very, very
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  Speaker 2: hard to stop. And so out of this tour, there
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  Speaker 2: are a long list, I think, of issues that the
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks need to fix. Scrum is certainly one of them,
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  Speaker 2: although I think it'll fare better, touch wood, against Australia
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  Speaker 2: in a few weeks' time. I suspect it'll probably go
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  Speaker 2: okay up north as well. England, probably the biggest test
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  Speaker 2: there when it comes to scrummaging. So I suspect it'll
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  Speaker 2: go better there. But South Africa were able to twist
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  Speaker 2: them and work them around and show pictures of that
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  Speaker 2: the referees clearly wanted to see at scrum time and
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  Speaker 2: were willing to reward. Now, the All Blacks have talked
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  Speaker 2: a lot about South Africa walking around and other issues
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  Speaker 2: at scrum time. At the end of the day, that's
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  Speaker 2: not what the referees have been seeing and the All
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  Speaker 2: Blacks have to adjust. And I think that's the The
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  Speaker 2: theme of the last couple of points are made that
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  Speaker 2: the penalties and the scrums the All Blacks have been
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  Speaker 2: wanting when it comes to adjustments that are required. Another
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  Speaker 2: one is obviously the high ball reception. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: why this is continuing to be an issue for the
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks, but this is not just a Dave Rennie issue.
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  Speaker 2: It's a Scott Robertson issue that they haven't been able
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  Speaker 2: to take the high ball regularly enough. Now, the escort
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  Speaker 2: rule has changed the way that it develops and it's
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  Speaker 2: become somewhat of a lottery, but South Africa seem to
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  Speaker 2: be doing it all right. England seem to be doing
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  Speaker 2: it all right. Ireland seem to be doing it all right.
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  Speaker 2: So the All Blacks need to be better at doing so.
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  Speaker 2: And I do wonder, just thinking out loud, whether there
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  Speaker 2: needs to be a certain sense of pragmatism here at
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  Speaker 2: the moment with the All Blacks and the players that
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  Speaker 2: they're selecting on the wing. Now, There are few and
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  Speaker 2: far highball exponents in the game. Now Caleb Clark is
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  Speaker 2: one of them for the All Blacks. He's obviously out
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  Speaker 2: for the rest of the year. But I wonder with
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  Speaker 2: the vulnerabilities the All Blacks have shown under the highball
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  Speaker 2: and opposition teams willingness to exploit that, which will continue,
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  Speaker 2: maybe not against Australia, although who knows, but they need
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  Speaker 2: to be a little bit pragmatic about who they're selecting
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  Speaker 2: on the wing. Now, I don't have a great deal
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  Speaker 2: of suggestions for that, but perhaps you're better off selecting
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  Speaker 2: someone that is efficient under the high ball versus someone
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  Speaker 2: that is going to give you the pace and power
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  Speaker 2: that otherwise ordinarily you would associate with All Blacks teams.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that's a big question mark for the
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks. We've not seen them settle on a win combination. Obviously,
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  Speaker 2: Will Jordan has locked down the 14 jersey, although his
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  Speaker 2: work under the highball has been questionable. Damian McKenzie's at
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  Speaker 2: fullback as well. He throws himself into everything, although it's
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  Speaker 2: still an issue with the highball reception. But I just
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  Speaker 2: wonder whether the make-up of the back three could be
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  Speaker 2: tweaked somewhat to bring in high ball exponents. Yes, you
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  Speaker 2: would probably lose a little bit with pace or power. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I've talked a little bit, and, you know, listeners and Liam,
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  Speaker 2: if he's listening, will roll his eyes around Shea Fihaki,
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  Speaker 2: but he's a good high ball exponent. But is he
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  Speaker 2: a test player? Well, probably not. But maybe this could
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  Speaker 2: be a little bit pragmatic, and I'm sure there are
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  Speaker 2: players in the NPC that are proficient under the high ball,
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  Speaker 2: according to me, plucked out of the NPC, but maybe
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  Speaker 2: with the Test World Cup on the horizon next year,
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  Speaker 2: whether you can get players that are already in the
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks up to speed with the highball or whether
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  Speaker 2: you select highball exponents and look to bring them through
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  Speaker 2: that way. So that's something that I am quite hot
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  Speaker 2: on and obviously it's going to be something that the
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  Speaker 2: All Blacks will be tested in the Northern League of
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  Speaker 2: the Nations Championship in a few weeks' time, well, a
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  Speaker 2: couple of months' time, but not too far away from
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  Speaker 2: that happening. Scrum, obviously, an issue, as I mentioned before,
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  Speaker 2: the high ball, an issue, the penalties, an issue. There
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  Speaker 2: are a few other questions, I think, around the makeup
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  Speaker 2: of the team. Now, Dave Rennie spoke to media away
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  Speaker 2: from the media conference to the New Zealand Media Gather
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  Speaker 2: on the ground in a sort of separate media pod scenario,
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  Speaker 2: which was embargoed, and he suggested that Scott Barrett could
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  Speaker 2: be back for the Bledisloe Cup Series potentially. Leicester flying
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  Speaker 2: Onuku may be an option as well. Anton Cegna, the
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  Speaker 2: jury was still out on Anton Leonard-Brown when we spoke
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  Speaker 2: to him. This is only an hour or so after
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  Speaker 2: the Baltimore game. But there are going to be some
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  Speaker 2: interesting selection decisions for the All Blacks. They'll take 34
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: for the Bledisloe, is my understanding. And some of those
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  Speaker 2: players will come back in. I think there'll be a
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  Speaker 2: squeeze around certain parts of the game. I think Locke
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  Speaker 2: will be fascinating because if Scott Barrett does come through
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  Speaker 2: an MPC game, or maybe two, does he come straight
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  Speaker 2: back into the All Blacks? And who for? I don't
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  Speaker 2: think Patrick Toepelotu had his best series necessarily. I would
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  Speaker 2: like to see him go back to being a bench
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  Speaker 2: impact option for the All Blacks. I think that's been
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  Speaker 2: where he's played his best rugby over the last couple
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  Speaker 2: of years. Sam Dowery, I think there's some question marks
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  Speaker 2: defensively over him. He didn't have a great game, I
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  Speaker 2: didn't think, in Baltimore. Sam, so there is some work
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  Speaker 2: to do there. So maybe Scott Barrett does come back
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  Speaker 2: into the the second row for one or if not
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  Speaker 2: both of those players. Elsewhere, I think the squeeze will
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: come on the outside backs. Obviously, we didn't see a
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  Speaker 2: lot of Fini-Unga Norfolk on this tour or Amoni Ngaruwa,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Liam's favourite pet project player. Will they be carried for
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: the Bledisloe Cup series? Don't know. You suspect the way
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: that Fihi ran over the Australian Super Rugby team's earlier
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: in the year that he could do quite nicely against
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: those players when it comes to the test level, but
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: we just haven't seen enough of him. Timothi Tavatava-Nawai, I
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: think the jury is still out on where he's at
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: in terms of a test player. I don't know that
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: he'll be part of the planning for the end of
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: year tour when you add back in players like Fyinga Onuku,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: maybe there's a time we're for our scenarios or not
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: the time we're for as a midfielder but it may
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: just see Tava Tava Nawai potentially be squeezed out so
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: some interesting conversations coming for Dave Rennie and the selectors
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: as they sort out this team for the Bledisloe and
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: for the end of year tour at some point the
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: squeeze is going to come on the 10s as well
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: with Mwanga starting in Baltimore obviously Ruben Love being the
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: incumbent 10 for the season so far Damian McKenzie, Bowdoin Barrett,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the question will be asked as to whether you can
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: carry all of them, not only for the World Cup
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: next year, but whether they can be carried in a
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: squad of 34 into the blitz. I don't know about that.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe Bowdoin Barrett is better served playing for Taranaki over
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the next few weeks and trying to find some form
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: ahead of the end of year tour rather than carrying
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: tackle bags or being part of the All Blacks mix.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's a live discussion for
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  Speaker 2: for Dave Rennie and co. So some interesting conversations to
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: be had over the next week or two when it
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: comes to the All Blacks and the squad and the
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  Speaker 2: tactics that they put together for the final six test
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: matches of the year. Two against Australia and four against
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: As they go up north at the start of November.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: That'll about do us for a quick rugby direct. Obviously
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: a couple of other things on the go. The NPC
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: as well. And the Black Ferns with a great win
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: over France on the weekend. We'll have to dive a
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: little bit deeper into that. Black Ferns have England of
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: course next weekend. And probably the showcase game. Well definitely
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the showcase game. of that element of the tour. But
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: as I say, that all about doers for Rugby Direct
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: and me droning on in your ears for 12 and
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a half minutes or so. Hopefully we'll get Liam in
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: for a podcast at some point next week and fully
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  Speaker 2: review the All Blacks tour of South Africa. My thanks
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: to Mark Kelly for producing. We are powered by Access Solutions,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: elevating you and your business to a higher level.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air or online.
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