Latest / The Worship and Leadership Podcast / Do You Know Your People or Just Their Positions?

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Do You Know Your People or Just Their Positions? · The Worship and Leadership Podcast

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: You ain't even move, Elber.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on, this is gooch.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we're ready.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Holy Spirit, lead the way.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: We need you all the time.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's going on, everyone?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Elmer Cañas Jr., and this is Willie C.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Simpson Jr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Junior.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: What is up, everybody?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, Junior?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to see you, Junior.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to see you, Junior.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you know what, Elmer?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you know your volunteers' availability, but not their stories, you're not leading a team.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're simply managing a schedule.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, man.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: We come in that hot, bro.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I had to come off the top rope.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like Ultimate Warrior.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: These ashy elbows.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're talking about shepherding volunteers, not simply filling or staffing slots on a team.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: In the creative space and the ministry space, it's easy to do that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to succumb to the temptation of prioritizing a need for a role over shepherding the person that you want to fill that role.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very true.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's always things to do in church.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times you could feel like there's not enough people.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know one of the issues we're running into, or that we we get to navigate or lead is a lot of times with at Rossview specifically, we have four services.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then Tiny Town has three services.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then downtown has two services.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: But they show up, they still show up at six in the morning.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: We still have volunteers showing up at six in the morning, Dream Teamers, to set up, and then they're not leaving there till after one o'clock, one thirty, because they have to tear everything down.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a mobile campus.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so every campus has a unique, you know, unique times, unique setups, and it could almost feel like, oh, you guys are a large church.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like you should have enough people.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the truth is, uh, a lot in the statistics is that about 20% of people in a church that attend a church actually do a lot of the serving.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's statistics true, then it puts leadership in a bind in the sense of you don't want to keep using the same people or not using, but you don't want to keep rostering the same people because you kind of feel bad.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I don't I don't want you to like get tired of seeing my face.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're right, yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, there's all those complications of how do you steward people well?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And because that's the at the end of the day, we're not here just to put on a service, we're not here just to kind of move programs forward.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: We want to steward people in their gifts, in their walk with the Lord, and uh, and that's it's kind of the twofold thing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're accomplishing uh something by providing ministry and services and in uh small groups, and at the same time, we're we're leading people to become fully devoted followers, and part of that is engaging them in their gifts and seeing them serve in the church.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so the word that keeps ringing in my in my spirit on that, Pastor Elmer, is spirit.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, sponsored by Snickers.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's the tagline?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: The tagline is you're not you when you ain't spirit feel.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, somebody.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Jacob and post, can we just add a little shimmery effect after that?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just you can hook that up.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, brother.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the one word that keeps ringing in my in my spirit, Pastor Elmer, is is shepherd slash relationship.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, that really is the key.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you know, we we're blessed.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: The the pareto principle is definitely in effect, and I think it is as it is in most churches, irrespective of the size.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where 20% of the people do 100% of the work.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we are thankful that we have an amazing army, let's call it that, an army of volunteers that show up week in and week out, not only on Sundays, but throughout the week, that are that are not only willing to serve, but but it's their joy to do so.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, the temptation can be to just utilize them as cogs in a machine instead of seeing them as flesh and blood human beings made in the image of God.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so then that's where the shepherding has to come in.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so what does that look like?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you think about John 10, Jesus talks about two types of leaders.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: He talks about a shepherd and he talks about a hireling.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he says the shepherd is willing to lay his life down for the sheep.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: The shepherd loves the sheep, the shepherd cares for the sheep, he watches over the sheep.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: The hireling is in it just for the money.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not, and what's funny is that you can't tell the difference between the shepherd and the hireling until the wolves come.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So practically it's when pressure hits, it's when life happens.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you can tell what kind of leader is you are in regards to your team.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a shepherd or your hireling?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus says that the hireling flees.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: He runs when the wolves show up because it says he doesn't care for, he doesn't love the sheep.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: But the shepherd, not only does the shepherd stay, but the shepherd defends and beats back the wolves.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he's willing to lay his life down, as a matter of fact, for the sheep.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's willing to put himself between the sheep and the danger because he loves the sheep.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think about David in scripture and how well, you know how that that is it a TV show?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: David, is that what it's called?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: In Prime?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a movie.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a movie?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, no, okay, there's a movie and then there is the series.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's a series.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's a series on Amazon Prime, yes.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then so like they show like David out in in the fields with you know with his little harp and stuff.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's not a Lear, sorry.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but David's out there taking care of the sheep that belong to his his father.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Jesse, yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Jesse, and he's tending his father's sheep, which ultimately it's his family.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he's protecting it, and he's willing to lay his life down for for the sheep per se.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like I think of of other other kind of scenarios where I wonder if David would have ran if that wasn't his if they didn't belong to him, you know, or or if he uh i we could talk about this.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we need to unpack it a little bit.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is it that the sheep belonged to his father, or was it that he loved the sheep?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which one?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that that matters.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I I fully agree.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I believe what is more important is the fact that David loved the sheep.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, he's tinged in the sheep that belong to his father.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so because David has a care for the sheep, that is that is manifested, that is expressed in his his desire to defend the sheep and to care for them.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if David had a hireling mindset, so honestly, whoever owns the sheep, that's honestly unimportant.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's the heart of the shepherd who's been given charge over the sheep.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because he could say, Well, these are my dad's sheep.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I didn't buy these sheep.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I you know, I don't get nothing for doing this.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like my dad, he gets paid whenever we sell the wool or we give away a lamb for dinner for something like that.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like he my my these are my dad's, but he didn't have that, he didn't have a hirling mindset.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: He had a shepherd mindset where he wanted to protect and guard and care for the sheep.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that had to start somewhere.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, so I I think my take on that is I think because they were his father's sheep, he learned to love them.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it was regardless of how he was treated or how he was the youngest and kind of sent out.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm tracking.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so so yeah, what I'm pick I'm picking on what you're laying down.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: He had the heart of his father.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: He so because he loved his father and he honored his father, he said, you know what?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever my father's had, whatever my father has, I'm gonna care for it, I'm gonna take for it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna take care of it.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in in our context as Christians, excuse me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, hey, come on, that's the Holy Ghost working.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, let that unction rise up.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Some mother, some motta.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because because we're Christians and because we love God, we love God the Father, we love what what uh his heart is attracted to, you know, the things that move his heart, the things that he's compassionate about.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, if if he loves it, I I think we've said this on the podcast before.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: If it matters to God, yes, it should matter to us.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, we're addressing leaders.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so as leaders, as we're leading and shepherding God's people, they're not ours.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: As we're shepherding God's people, yeah, like the whole process, everything should matter, the conversation should matter, the the way we we lead should matter.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, that that's good.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, uh again, that's where the mindset does come in.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the parable of the talent.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the the you know, the master gives them, and because they have an honor for the master, they have a love for, they have a respect and a reverence for the master, you know, the first two servants that you know they they multiply.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: The other one says, I knew you to be a hard man.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So he had a completely different perception.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: He he he looked at the as the master as dishonest, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's so where you didn't even where you reap or where you didn't even sell them, like you calling you calling the your boss dishonest, really, the one who provided you with provision.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, do we have the heart of the father?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing Pastor Mike has said.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: He said, he's taught us that the heart of a church is the heart of a father, which then gives you the heart of a shepherd, which then gives you the heart of being a leader slash a pastor.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so pulling forward then, the question that a great filter question for us to ask is do you know your people or do you just simply know their positions?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, do you are you aware, like have you gotten in the lives of those that serve with you, of those that are on your team?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you know their spouses?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know their children?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know their background?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what motivates them, what inspires them?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what frustrates them?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: What scares them?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Something you have said, Pastor Elmer, that I just, man, is so brilliant.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: You would tell your team, and I've started to co-opt it, if I need you, then I can't lead you.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you know, if you are so vital and essential to this whole operation, well, then it's gonna be hard for me to shepherd you when that's really why the father sent you to and into my life and why the guy, why God sent me into your life, it's it's it's to be shepherded.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so that, yeah, that I think that's a great filter question to start with is man, do you uh the scriptures say know the condition of your flock?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, know the condition of your flock, know those that labor among you, know them, know their stories, get let them get to know you.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do they know your family?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do they know your wife and kids?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do they know what frustrates you?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do they know what inspires you?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do they know things that you that you worry about, things that you're concerned about?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you able to be human and humane with them to the appropriate level?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: But are you able to be human and humane or do they have to see you as infallible and unbreakable?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, let's talk church culture as musicians.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: The musicians that we are.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah when we get to right.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've I've grown up in churches where they've hired musicians.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, same here.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And incredible musicians, like some of the most amazing people, like great hearts, you know, amazing talent.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But they there was there was no direct connection to the church.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like going back to that scripture in John 10, like they were just hired.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and the second that another opportunity came up, that where they could do the same thing at a different church and make more money, it's like, hey, I'm just letting you know this is my last Sunday.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And deuces.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so like it was great.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: They were serving the church with their gift, but there was no connection to the church or to the pastor.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what's your take on that?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, same thing, man.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was my story.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in that very charismatic faith tradition and met some amazing musicians.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, guys that I knew toured with some of the you know the biggest names in gospel and Christian music.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so thinking number one, the thing that struck me the most, and it was crazy because again, I was guilty of doing this.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when you know my parents had served in the army and we were uh at a military installation and we were part of a church there.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I was one of the musicians I played, played the keys, the the organ, and I played the bass.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And bro, I remember after the worship set, which to be clear, guys, listen, in in the more charismatic, like the Kojic faith tradition, praise and worship is like an hour.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: You we might do three songs, but you already know we're gonna hit that vamp and go back into it and remix that mug.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then man, we would when we would get done, we would go into the green room on the side and and sit out the message.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: We would just go back there, hang out, you know, get something to drink, get something to eat.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: We had clout clowning around.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But we and then as the pastors get ready to close, when he's starting to tune up, then the organists would come out, and then you know, the the uh bass player and then the drummer, we'd come out and we, you know, do the gospel hits, just to back ass, you know, when he hoops, that's what we call it when he's hooping.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But we weren't there for the matches, couldn't tell you what the man preached about.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't even look at him as our pastor.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd get my little$200 for that Sunday, keep it pushing.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt fun and it felt good for a season because it's like I'm playing great music.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I'm and I got to know the musicians that I worked with, you know, that I played with, that I served with, but I I didn't get to know people in the church.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and worse shit, they didn't get to know me.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I so then I can remember in high school, I mean, when went through really, really hard season, like personally, just with some crazy family stuff.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that, just being honest, like just some sin struggles.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I the the the last place that I wanted to go to was the church.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I knew that nobody in that church knew me.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't know my story, they didn't, they didn't even know my parents or something, because I was the one that went, I was just a gigging musician.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's when it like hit me just like a like a ton of bricks, like man, this isn't really my church.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, did it stop me from gigging?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it was something that that really stayed with me, you know, and it's just it's a tragedy, you know.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Just it's not just not knowing others, but it's not being known yourself.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was real big and for me when I lived in Texas.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was yeah, all these mega churches everywhere.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it was real uh it was a custom where a lot of these big churches had budgets where they paid musicians.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and one of the things I started doing in that season is uh we would do a shed night, like a jam session.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for you for those of you that don't know.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we would just set up multiple drum sets, multiple keyboards, multiple amps, and you just had a bunch of musicians from all over the city show up and you just have fun.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just a big jam session.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I would intentionally go to these guys that were there.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could I I would play, but I couldn't keep up with half of the things they were doing.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and I would intentionally ask them, like, hey, like, hey, when when things get hard, like what do you do?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I got my boys, like, well, who's your pastor?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who do you go to when you need a pastor?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Well, I play at so-and-so's church.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, so is he your pastor?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, No, I'm like, Do you have his number?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not really.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like so-and-so calls me from his church and I just show up and play.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, So you don't have a pastor?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, like, hey, and then I eventually, as I was building these relationships, I would ask, Hey, if something happens in your life, would you give me permission to pastor you?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually a lot of these guys were like, Yeah, yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they were gigging around the city, but if things would come up, they would call me and and reach out.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and eventually some of these guys started attending our church, and they would even serve at our church for a lot less than what they would have made at another church.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they're still getting paid.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because we we would pair musicians, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but for a lot less because they would prefer community and being part of something over not.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and at the same time, because it was their part of their career as musicians, they would study, they studied, went to school for all that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they were still getting paid for for their craft and stuff.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally got it, and I didn't mind it as long as they allowed somebody to speak into their lives.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as a leader, the the responsibility that I felt in that season was you know, everyone needs somebody.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, everyone needs covering, and so you even if there's people that you're leading and they're just stubborn, yeah, like they're hard to kind of just kind of do life with, you know, but they still need somebody to love them and someone to lead them and pastor them.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so in in this case with these guys, like I didn't want them to be doing life alone, yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just really felt like you know, led by the Holy Spir by the Spirit.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Come on now, to to really engage with them and and pastor them.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and eventually the Lord let them to be part of our church, you know, which which taught me a big lesson.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was not I I never knew that wasn't the plan going into it, like that wasn't the intention of the shed nights, the jam sessions, but it was as as we were having these moments with these guys, like the Holy Spirit just started leading that conversation.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and now it's taught me a big lesson in life that people people are drawn to being shepherded.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like we even though we're pastors, like we still have our pastor.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's something that it's in in our innate human nature that we need it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to your point, I can't I cannot shepherd and lead effectively.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or let me just say, let me say it this way I am able to lead and shepherd effectively to the degree that I myself am willing to be led and shepherded, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad you said that.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, shepherds beget shepherds.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't I don't like to think of the term shepherd as a vocational role or even a role on an org chart, and that's a spiritual calling.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And all of us are called to lead somebody.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of us are called to do that.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're all called to be ambassadors, we're all called to be leaders.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't understand that whole dynamic again, because of the faith tradition that I grew up in, which was largely African American, you know, the gifting was more important than the person, than the heart.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you mean you could have, I mean, they were just being honest, man, all of us, man, we had younger growing up, you know, these sin issues that were known.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the pastors, they were like, hey, but he's coming here and he's anointed and he's gifted, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning what?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's just an amazing musician or an amazing singer.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and so you're allowed to serve on this team.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so you realize, wow, okay, that that's why honestly, man, when I got into college and I got into a real discipleship relationship with a with an amazing friend, still a friend to this day's name is Michael Pickens.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the first time, man, he he gave me some hard accountability.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I fought against that because I didn't realize this is what shepherding looks like.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize, hey man, that they're the hard things that your brother in Christ is telling you are good for you.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is biblical.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: The examples that were set before you were not.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Those shepherds were not doing you a good service, but allowing you to continue in sin, allowing you to continue in pride and arrogance and make it about the gifting.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't doing you a kindness, they were misleading you.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the first time I came face to face with that, man, that was a culture shock.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was 19 years on the concept.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, you don't talk to me like that?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are you saying, who do you think you are?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm your brother in Christ.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I'm so thankful for men like Michael and AJ Johnson.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: He he played drums in our college choir.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he was really those two were you know AJ?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know AJ, man.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know AJ.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh cousin Pojo in there.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: He plays them sticks.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: He plays them sticks.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: He plays the sticks, Elmer.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: He plays the sticks.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: What instrument is that, Elmer?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Done with his allophone.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he just plays the sticks.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he really, I mean, those guys really did this out for me along with uh a pastor named Mark.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they they made it more about Willie the Man.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it was great because Michael is an amazing singer.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: AJ's an amazing drummer.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So these are musicians, and I'm seeing these guys live for God, you know.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: AJ was married as a college student.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, how do you do that?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I'm learning about marriage from him and learning about what it means to be a man of God for Michael and from Mark.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then we we moved to Alabama and God introduced me to an amazing keyboard.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Greg.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean amazing keyboards.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: He can sing, write music, incredible, but he had a shepherd's heart.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so he gathered all of us up as musicians, and he created a small group that's called Soundmakers.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: We had t-shirts and everything, man.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was legit, man.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we just hung out.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: We would hang out at least once, twice a month.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like I would just never forget that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just like the community.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And again, all of us were really good musicians, like in our own right, like really, really good music.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was a part of an awesome group.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like these are guys that toured all this stuff, wrote music, but man, they were guys that we could reach out to.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and they they they were guys that we knew that we could call.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: We would just hang out at each other's house.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had them at our apartment, man.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: We were in, it was just amazing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then for the and then that that's what I'm saying.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: You just realized, like you said, and none of us at this time, we were all volunteered.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: None of us got paid, and we didn't care.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And man, we were together.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: We were Carolyn and I, we lived in Tuscaloosa for almost a decade, for almost 10 years, right?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: At nine and a half years before we moved back.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we all stayed at that church because of Greg.
• 21:51
  unknown: Come on.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because of his leadership, man, and his just his love and shepherding us.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, but I mean, our pastor, then Pastor Scott and Christy Shatz, and I were just awesome shit.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Shepherds, like they knew us, they knew our kids.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: But but it was easier.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And to be clear, we want we came to the church because of Pastor Scott and Christy.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were just amazing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: But we stayed because of the community that we found there.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome dynamic teaching, but it was that life-giving community as musicians.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times to that point, people come to church because they hear, oh, hey, they got a great pastor, they got a preaching's awesome, worship's awesome, they got great programs for our kids, all this stuff.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: But then they stay because of the relationships that they build with great leaders.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And people that actually care.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of times as leaders, we're we're wanting to develop people and we're like, I don't know where to look.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's usually the people you're shepherding.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: That that when you in when you truly invest into their lives and shepherding them and getting to know their family, getting to know their name.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a big one.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like get to know people's names.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I always ask, excuse me.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I always ask, hey, like, what's your first and last name?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I'm honest when I tell people, I'm like, I just like to know your whole name and because it helps me remember.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I always write people's names on my phone in the notes.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if I forget, I'll say, hey, just remind me.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I remember your last name.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember your first name.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then they'll tell me.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then just time after time after time, when you run into people and you call them by the first name, right?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: It means so much to them because you're actually taking time to get to know them.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so get to know people's names or stories because eventually those are the leaders that will be leading beside you.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: If not, they're going to be the people that will supersede you and that the Lord will elevate at some point.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll be able just to rest and know that you know things are in great hands when you're investing into people that carry the heart of God, carry the heart of your pastor and the heart that you have for the Lord.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm I'm glad you shared that tidbit there.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a great segment, but like you said, you know, just get get to know their names, get to know their stories, check in with people when they're absent.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like when they when they miss or serve, check in with, hey, mission today, just want to make sure everything's good.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people don't just choose not to show up.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's something more than likely happening and going on.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this right here, I would say, is the most important one.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Show up at big moments in their lives.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Graduation.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: They get married, birth of a child, promotion at work.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Show up in the negative big moments.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sickness, job loss, loss of a loved one, spiritual warfare.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Pastor Mike says it all the time, and it's so true.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: In those moments, people rarely remember what you say.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: They just remember you being there.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: They just remember they just remember when you're there.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that what that does is it shows them like one thing that people on my team will tell you is I am after your heart over your hands.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of man or woman of God are you?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is what's more important because your serving will be an overflow of that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: But more to the point, you need to know that that that you matter.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I did a team night last night with with my my small group's dream team, and man, we just sat around eating the Lord's chicken, and they were just sharing stories of just life changing wins, you know, just through small groups and things.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I got up and I just spoke on 1 Corinthians 12, 12, one body many members.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And just encouraged them and said, Hey, all of you matter.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're all, and and there were there was a specific member of our team who's been dealing with some crazy health issues.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And man, she is a joy fountain, and she hasn't been able to serve like she wants to at one of our campuses.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And our team has just been love bombing the fire out of her.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: We had meal train set up, checking in with her.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's had multiple procedures.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and you just see the Lord's hand on her life.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And she got up and she shared several stories of life change from her small group.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the one that was most impactful, the one that really led to the most emotion, was she just she said, I want to thank all of you for checking in with me and making me feel like I'm part of the team.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like nobody made her feel bad for not being, you know what I mean?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: That she was hard, she was hard on herself than anyone.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, people like that, they they want to serve and they hate when they can't.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: But in that moment, it was just, and and and that's why she wants to remain a part of the team because of how she was loved.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: We showed up for her in the big moment.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, like, guys, well, I'm gonna say that, guys, listen.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: A buddy of mine, Jeremy, he would say, do the free and easy things.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, listen, showing up for your team members, learning their names, learning their stories, doing a check-in text is free and easy.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is free and it's easy, but the payoff on the other side of it is massive.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's an exponential payoff when you just randomly throughout the day send a text to one of your team members.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Joe Blow, you hit my heart, just checking in on you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: How can I pray with you?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even if everything is good, they can say all systems are green, they will appreciate the fact that they were on your mind.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yo, Carolyn's Carolyn's dad, Mr.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Charles, he would he would always say, for the birthday, like for we had the family tradition, the birthday.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm rambling, but this is just hear me on this.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: For whenever we celebrate birthdays, he would always want cake and ice cream.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he would always try to get people like cake and ice cream or something sweet.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what he'll always say.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: He would say, Everybody likes to be remembered.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I have been together for almost 26 years.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when she and I first started dating, that was one of the first things he said on my birthday.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: He would say, Son, everybody likes to be remembered.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, everybody likes to be remembered.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's the heart of shepherding.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let them know I remember you.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't need a title or position on a church staff to shepherd or to even love people in that in that way.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: You do not.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: You could be serving on the same team.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody that you work with, I think at the end of the day, it exemplifies the father's heart.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so not the organization, not the church structure, not the systems, you know, that we'd use for ministry.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think shepherding and loving people this way, it just highlights the father's heart.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so going back to the whole David and his father Jesse, like, and and that's first we're called to be Christians, you know.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: So as sons and daughters of God, like we should care for people, we should love people, we should want them to feel seen, yeah, just the way, you know, do to others as you want others to do unto you.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the the golden rule, we just learned about that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and and so we should we should love people, we should make them feel seen, feel heard, feel like acknowledged.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so whatever that looks like, I think we should take some time this week and think of some people that you that you love.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Think about some people that you get to serve with, some people that might be your coworkers, and just take a moment, just send them a quick text message and just say, hey, thinking about you, or hey, let's have coffee, yeah, something, you know, and just don't get in trouble, don't do nothing dumb.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you're a guy, don't send a text to a female.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Guardrails, guardrails, guardrails.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: But and you shouldn't be thinking of a female coworker.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but like just be mindful of those things and just as you're doing that, just just watch how God's heart just continues to grow in yours.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and you'll be amazed.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're grateful and thankful that we get to do this, you know, every week here at Life Point Church, and and and that we get to invest in other people that have that same heart and that same mindset.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: It truly is like Jesus said, better to give than to receive.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so as you pour out, man, I want you, I want the joy of the spirit to feed you as as you pour out and shepherd those that God has entrusted.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, God's entrusted them to you.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: What a what a high honor, what a privilege.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, God chose you.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are way more other better leaders than you out there.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And God said, no, no, I've seen our heart, I've seen his heart.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna entrust these people to them to shepherd.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, come on.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what a great time! What a great time.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you guys for joining us today.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, peace out.