Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EXCLUSIVE: Lucas Hernandez Dad: "I don't understand" as stepmom walks free after she reveals tots body

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EXCLUSIVE: Lucas Hernandez Dad: "I don't understand" as stepmom walks free after she reveals tots body · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one thirty two. A desperate search neighbors, police volunteers, helicopters,
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Speaker 1: a t v S tracker, dogs, missing posters, tiplines, command centers,
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Speaker 1: the works. What happened to five year old Lucas Hernandez.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
1:02
Speaker 1: with us. The search came to an end, and not
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Speaker 1: the end any of us we're hoping for. When a
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Speaker 1: private eye, David Marshburn manages to somehow lure Lucas's stepmother,
1:20
Speaker 1: Emily Glass, into a car for over four hours, they
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Speaker 1: drive rugged terrain until she points out an obscure bridge
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Speaker 1: underneath is the body a five year old Lucas Hernandez.
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Speaker 1: What happened? Joining me right now is Lucas's father, Jonathan
1:44
Speaker 1: her Nandez. Jonathan, thank you for being with us. Jonathan.
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Speaker 1: So much has happened. I just don't know how you
1:53
Speaker 1: still managed to put one foot in front of the other.
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Speaker 1: Tell me what is going What was going through your
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Speaker 1: mind when you first learned Lucas was missing. I I
2:08
Speaker 1: thought that maybe he had wandered off. You know. I
2:12
Speaker 1: got the phone call when I was working in New Mexico,
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Speaker 1: and I immediately um went into shock, especially when I
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Speaker 1: spoke with police officers and they said that they were
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Speaker 1: at my residence and performing at least a neighborhood searched
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Speaker 1: in the immediate times after, and that they still hadn't
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Speaker 1: found him. I was really, really, really concerned, because he
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Speaker 1: doesn't you know, He's not the type of boy that
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Speaker 1: wanders off or does anything without asking permission. So I
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Speaker 1: knew something really was wrong. Now, why were you out
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Speaker 1: of town? I was working, yep. And what do you
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Speaker 1: do for a living, Jonathan, I'm on my blog her
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Speaker 1: in the oil field. Yeah, my dad was gone a lot.
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Speaker 1: He worked for the railroad and he would work all
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Speaker 1: kind of crazy shifts and be gone this night back
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Speaker 1: that day, and believe it or not, for many many years,
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Speaker 1: no week was the same. He had no reliable schedule.
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Speaker 1: That's hard to be away from home. When police first
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Speaker 1: called you, what did they say? Just that Lucas was missing, Yes,
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Speaker 1: that he was missing, and you know, there was no
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Speaker 1: no sign that you know, he should have wandered off,
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Speaker 1: no sign of a forced entry, and they were just
3:40
Speaker 1: trying their best to figure out what was going on.
3:44
Speaker 1: When you spoke to the stepmother, Emily Glass, who was
3:47
Speaker 1: home with him while you were gone, you certainly didn't
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Speaker 1: leave a five year old by himself. What did she
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Speaker 1: tell you had happened? When I first got the phone
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Speaker 1: call from her, she just said that Lucas was missing.
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Speaker 1: And she was uh distraught, emotional, and I could barely
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Speaker 1: make out the words that she was saying, Lucas is missing.
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Speaker 1: And that's all she could really say at the time
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Speaker 1: was Lucas is missing. Lucas is missing. Lucas is missing. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So is she the first one that called you or
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Speaker 1: police the first one that called you? Um? I believe
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Speaker 1: she She attempted to call me, but I wasn't near
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Speaker 1: my phone. And then she called police. Called me maybe
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Speaker 1: five or ten minutes later while she was speaking with police,
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Speaker 1: gotcha with me. Everyone is Jonathan Hernandez. This is Lucas's father.
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Speaker 1: We have all been hoping and praying, searching, wishing for
4:39
Speaker 1: the best. We are so many questions, Jonathan, when you
4:44
Speaker 1: could finally get hurt calm enough to verbalize what had happened? What? What?
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Speaker 1: What did she say? Just that she was sleeping, you know,
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Speaker 1: she took a nap and she was asleep and then
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Speaker 1: woke up and he was missing in the back door
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Speaker 1: was open. Does the back door have any type of
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Speaker 1: a latch on it or a lot that he maybe
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Speaker 1: could not reach? Um? No, it did not. Yep. What
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Speaker 1: did you do when you found out your five year
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Speaker 1: old boy was gone? What did you do? I contacted
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Speaker 1: my boss, and I gathered up my things and I
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Speaker 1: jumped in the car and I drove straight home. Eleven hours.
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Speaker 1: When you got there, what did you find? I wasn't
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Speaker 1: allowed to go to the residence at that time. I
5:27
Speaker 1: actually went straight down to the police department and met
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Speaker 1: with detectives where it was Emily. By the time you
5:33
Speaker 1: got there, I believe she was at a relative's house.
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Speaker 1: I don't think she was at the police station at
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Speaker 1: that time when I went to the police station. Jonathan,
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Speaker 1: at that time, when you got back and you went
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Speaker 1: to the police station, when was the first time that
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Speaker 1: you actually saw Emily Emily Glass. Oh, it wasn't until
5:55
Speaker 1: um later that night, because when I got to the
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Speaker 1: police station, it was around six a m. In the morning,
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Speaker 1: and I stayed there in interrogation for about ten hours.
6:06
Speaker 1: Good gravy, they ask you questions for ten hours and
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Speaker 1: not the whole time I was sitting in there a
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Speaker 1: lot just by myself. But yes, I was down there.
6:15
Speaker 1: I was only let out of the interrogation room for
6:18
Speaker 1: the use of the restroom one time, but I was
6:20
Speaker 1: in there for ten hours. Well, I mean to Dr
6:22
Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, host of Investigation Discoveries Fatal Vowels. Honestly,
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Speaker 1: I know it may sound grueling to a lot of people.
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Speaker 1: I don't find that unusual at all. With a five
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Speaker 1: year old boy missing and you finally get to speak
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Speaker 1: to one of the biological parents. Yeah, you're gonna question
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Speaker 1: them every which way, but loose, that's absolutely right. And
6:43
Speaker 1: for someone uh that had nothing to do with the
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Speaker 1: disappearance of their child. They don't mind that at all.
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Speaker 1: In the n C they'll do anything to try to
6:53
Speaker 1: help authorities. Yeah, that's a really good point because a
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Speaker 1: lot of people clam up and won't talk. Jonathan R.
6:59
Speaker 1: Nandy sat down without a lawyer, without any complaint and
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Speaker 1: spoke for ten straight hours to police. Jonathan. At the
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Speaker 1: time that they were questioning you, and this is immediately
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Speaker 1: after Lucas goes missing, did they think that there was
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Speaker 1: foul ploy? Did they think he had been abducted? No,
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Speaker 1: they did not. There was not any specific evidence, I
7:22
Speaker 1: guess pointing to that, and maybe that's why they were
7:27
Speaker 1: interrogating me a little longer. And you know, I gave
7:32
Speaker 1: them access to my cell phone. I said, anything that
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Speaker 1: I can do to help you, I will. Jonathan. When
7:37
Speaker 1: you first started speaking to them, was their theory that
7:40
Speaker 1: Lucas had just wandered away or do they think at
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Speaker 1: the time he had been kidnapped? At that time, everything
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Speaker 1: was a possibility, and they were asking me, you know,
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Speaker 1: could he have wandered off, do you know anybody that
7:53
Speaker 1: might want to take him? Or do you think that
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Speaker 1: Emily maybe had done something? And I told them you know,
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Speaker 1: he doesn't wander off. He's a very good kid. He
8:04
Speaker 1: doesn't get into stuff or do things that he's not
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Speaker 1: supposed to do without asking first. And as far as
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Speaker 1: being abductive, I mean, at the time, I thought it
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Speaker 1: was a possibility. I mean, we were new to the area,
8:18
Speaker 1: we hadn't lived there very long, and I just I
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Speaker 1: was hoping that maybe he did wonder off and they
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Speaker 1: would find him fairly quickly. At any point, did you
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Speaker 1: suspect Emily had anything to do with his disappearance? I
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Speaker 1: did not, none, none, whatsoever the whole drive, all those
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Speaker 1: hours you drove. Did you speak to her on the once?
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Speaker 1: And did she stick to that story once she was
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Speaker 1: out of interrogation. Um? But yeah, I mean she she
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Speaker 1: maintained that he was asleep when they went to sleep,
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Speaker 1: and then when she woke up, he was missing and
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Speaker 1: the back door was open. Did you believe her at
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Speaker 1: the time At the time, I did, Um, because we
9:08
Speaker 1: we had just moved into that residence and we were
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Speaker 1: having an issue with that back door closing and latching,
9:15
Speaker 1: especially if you didn't lock the dead bolt. You would
9:17
Speaker 1: think that the door was closed, and then you would
9:19
Speaker 1: turn around and it would be open. Do you believe
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Speaker 1: her now? No, I did not. After you came out
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Speaker 1: of police interrogation. When did you see her? I drove
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Speaker 1: over to her relative house and UH picked her up
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Speaker 1: and spoke with her. She had my daughter with her
9:35
Speaker 1: when you saw her when you pulled up to the house,
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Speaker 1: did she come out the door? Did she run to you?
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Speaker 1: Did she hug you? Was she crying? What was her demeanor? Yeah?
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Speaker 1: She was. She was emotional. She was distraught, and we
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Speaker 1: hugged and cried, and I was, you know, I was
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Speaker 1: in a bit of shock and just just disbelieve. Did
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Speaker 1: she wait for you to knock on the door or
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Speaker 1: did she come out the door to your car? No,
10:02
Speaker 1: she waited for me to knock on the door. I
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Speaker 1: went to the door and I came inside. M hmmm.
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Speaker 1: Did she answer the door or a relative? I believe
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Speaker 1: she did. And what were her first words? As you
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Speaker 1: recall that she I can't believe that he's missing and
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Speaker 1: we need to find him, and that she's just it's
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Speaker 1: just emotional. You know, we were both emotional. I was exhausted,
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Speaker 1: she was exhausted, and it was just it was very
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Speaker 1: very traumatic thing going on. As we are talking about
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Speaker 1: it now, Jonathan, what is going through your mind? I
10:46
Speaker 1: am quite a bit and disbelief that this is even possible.
10:52
Speaker 1: I never, not one time, thought that she would have
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Speaker 1: had any knowledge of his disappearance or where he would be,
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Speaker 1: and that just even makes me more shocked, and it's
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Speaker 1: it's not an easy thing to be able to process.
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Speaker 1: When was the last time you saw her? I saw
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Speaker 1: her when I was talking with David. David Marshford, what
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Speaker 1: are your thoughts about her being out of jail now?
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Speaker 1: I'm a bit confused by it. I've figured that she
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Speaker 1: wouldn't be getting out, especially you know, since she knew
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Speaker 1: about the location of Lucas. What are police telling you
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Speaker 1: about why she's walked free. They actually haven't told me anything.
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Speaker 1: I've I've heard from um a friend that it may
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Speaker 1: have something to do with double jeopardy, in the sense
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Speaker 1: that if they charged her with a lesser crime and
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Speaker 1: use the same evidence, that they wouldn't be able to
12:08
Speaker 1: charge her with a more serious crime using that same evidence,
12:11
Speaker 1: so they'd let her go. With me. Ashley will caught
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Speaker 1: juvenile judge and found her child crime watch dot Com. Ashley,
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Speaker 1: she was just tried for endangerment to a child after
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Speaker 1: she stated she had smoked three bowls apart and drove
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Speaker 1: around with her daughter in the car and was acquitted.
12:28
Speaker 1: The prosecutors do not want to make the same mistake.
12:32
Speaker 1: If they hold her over seventy two hours, they have
12:36
Speaker 1: to bring her in court, which they did, or let
12:39
Speaker 1: her go. Okay, If they bring her to court, she
12:43
Speaker 1: could demand some sort of a preliminary hearing. If they
12:45
Speaker 1: have a preliminary hearing, that shows what evidence they do
12:49
Speaker 1: or don't have. Now, if they try to take her
12:52
Speaker 1: to trial now without enough evidence, they'll lose. Again. That
12:57
Speaker 1: is not something they want, Ashley. You know that's right, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: And I think and I think I said this, someone
13:03
Speaker 1: are prior shows about this particular horrible tragedy, and that
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Speaker 1: is the prosecution now is going to be extremely cautious
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Speaker 1: for the very reason you just said. They she was
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Speaker 1: acquitted and so now they are darn sure going to
13:15
Speaker 1: make sure that they have their ducks in a row
13:17
Speaker 1: and all of the evidence and proceed in a way
13:20
Speaker 1: that they can make the charges stick because bottom line,
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Speaker 1: she didn't know where that baby was. So she's involved
13:26
Speaker 1: Jonathan with me. Jonathan Hernandez Lucas Lucas's dad. Can I
13:29
Speaker 1: ask you something, Jonathan, on a different note, What is
13:33
Speaker 1: it about Emily that attracted you in the first place? Well,
13:38
Speaker 1: she's She's a very attractive girl. She you know, we
13:42
Speaker 1: had a lot of the same interests and um, she
13:46
Speaker 1: it was. It was pretty effortless as far as getting
13:49
Speaker 1: to know her and communicating with her, and it was
13:53
Speaker 1: almost like we had known each other long before, we admit.
13:58
Speaker 1: Did you did she strike you as being a good mom?
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Speaker 1: She did, I mean she did, and she helped me
14:04
Speaker 1: raise Lucas, you know, after we had gotten together, So
14:08
Speaker 1: I mean I got to witness, Jonathan, where were her
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Speaker 1: other children? They were with their father. According to her,
14:16
Speaker 1: she was in emotionally and I'm not sure if it
14:21
Speaker 1: was physically abusive relationship with him, and she she got
14:26
Speaker 1: away from that, but she didn't have the means to
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Speaker 1: take the children at the time, so she went to
14:33
Speaker 1: go try to get on her two feet, and whenever
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Speaker 1: she was doing that, she had gone down and filed
14:40
Speaker 1: for custody. What do you make of claims of relatives
14:44
Speaker 1: that they had observed your son Lucas covered in bruises
14:48
Speaker 1: in the past. I know of one instance that can
14:53
Speaker 1: be explained. The other ones, I'm not too sure, but
14:57
Speaker 1: I definitely understand their concern, and I'll know and have
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Speaker 1: your own name, get started. I didn't look it so wrong.
16:29
Speaker 1: I didn't work. You are hearing the girlfriend, the so
16:40
Speaker 1: called stepmother of Lucas Hernandez. She's been driving around in
16:44
Speaker 1: the car with private eye marshburn for hours on end
16:49
Speaker 1: until she finally leads him to the tiny body of
16:53
Speaker 1: five year old Lucas Hernandez. He is beneath an obscure
16:58
Speaker 1: bridge and a washed out call caught by a debris pan.
17:03
Speaker 1: At first, marshburn says he could not even tell what
17:07
Speaker 1: he was seeing. The little child had been in the
17:10
Speaker 1: elements for so long, his dark brown hair had been
17:14
Speaker 1: bleached white. Right now we are waiting for autopsy results,
17:20
Speaker 1: and with me is Lucas's father, Jonathan Hernandez. Jonathan, did
17:26
Speaker 1: you know that Marshburne was taking Emily Glass out into
17:31
Speaker 1: his car and secretly recording their conversations while he looked
17:36
Speaker 1: desperately for Lucas. No, I did not, Nancy, What did
17:40
Speaker 1: you know? I knew that he was going to pick
17:42
Speaker 1: her up that day and try to speak with her again.
17:46
Speaker 1: We had spoken with her him and I that the
17:49
Speaker 1: day before, and we didn't get very far. Really, as
17:54
Speaker 1: far as talking with her for a few hours. Why
17:57
Speaker 1: why couldn't why couldn't you get anything out of her
17:59
Speaker 1: for a few hours. Well, she just seemed like she
18:04
Speaker 1: had shut down, you know, and she wasn't gonna speak anymore,
18:08
Speaker 1: really say too much. Do you not find that odd?
18:10
Speaker 1: So he decided to, Uh, well it was odd, but
18:17
Speaker 1: you know, I started to see that she probably knew something,
18:21
Speaker 1: and I spoke with David about that once we left.
18:25
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? You started to say
18:27
Speaker 1: that she may know something. Yeah, just just her demeanor
18:32
Speaker 1: and her body language. It seemed very odd to me.
18:37
Speaker 1: And it seemed like she was, you know, looking in
18:40
Speaker 1: a particular direction, in the sense that she was just
18:44
Speaker 1: thinking and like running things through her mind and thinking
18:48
Speaker 1: really hard, is what it appeared to me. Jonathan. Did
18:50
Speaker 1: she stick with her story? How did she describe how
18:53
Speaker 1: she found Lucas? Now her story is she found him
18:57
Speaker 1: dead and for some reason discarded his body, disposed of
19:02
Speaker 1: it hours and hours away from home. And we just
19:05
Speaker 1: heard her saying to the private eye Marshburn, I did
19:10
Speaker 1: Lucas so wrong. I did him wrong. Earlier, she refers
19:13
Speaker 1: to herself as a piece of that that's not normal
19:18
Speaker 1: for someone looking innocently for their lost child. How did
19:22
Speaker 1: she describe to you what happened that night? She that
19:27
Speaker 1: that's that's as about as far as I know. I
19:30
Speaker 1: only know that much because of what David had told
19:32
Speaker 1: me that she had found him guests in his bed
19:37
Speaker 1: one morning or one evening, not specific on that, but
19:42
Speaker 1: then she had panicked. And she never really said why
19:47
Speaker 1: she panicked, but that she had panicked and went and
19:52
Speaker 1: hit him after she led Private Eye Marshburn to Lucas's remains.
19:58
Speaker 1: Have you talked to her at all? Sense um? Yes,
20:01
Speaker 1: I had talked to her that morning before David had
20:05
Speaker 1: picked her up to to talk to her again and
20:08
Speaker 1: interrogate her again her you know, questioned her again, and
20:12
Speaker 1: at that point it seemed that she was, I think,
20:18
Speaker 1: ready to get it off of the chest. She was
20:21
Speaker 1: crying on the phone to me, saying I'm sorry, I
20:26
Speaker 1: don't know how you could ever love me, you know,
20:30
Speaker 1: things of that nature, but not really saying anything. And
20:35
Speaker 1: I was, you know, trying not to freak out, and
20:38
Speaker 1: I was trying to reassure her that everything would be okay.
20:42
Speaker 1: You just need to talk to David, and we just
20:45
Speaker 1: have to get through this, because I didn't want her
20:47
Speaker 1: to shut down again. I was trying to be as
20:49
Speaker 1: supportive as possible. That way we could, you know, David
20:53
Speaker 1: and I could work together to try to to get
20:56
Speaker 1: her and come forward. I just can't get my head
21:00
Speaker 1: around it that you you drive all the way back
21:04
Speaker 1: through the night, you get there around six am. Everyone
21:08
Speaker 1: with me is Lucas's dad, who gets in his car
21:11
Speaker 1: the moment he hears Lucas is missing and drives through
21:15
Speaker 1: the night home to try to find his five year
21:19
Speaker 1: old son and the day's past. Did she ever elaborate?
21:24
Speaker 1: What was her story? That she had taken a nap,
21:28
Speaker 1: taking a shower, taking a nap, woke up and he
21:30
Speaker 1: was gone? What were her words? Because that just that
21:34
Speaker 1: seems so superficial to me. I mean, did she say
21:37
Speaker 1: I went in his bedroom and he was gone, and
21:39
Speaker 1: I went in the yard, and I mean, how does
21:41
Speaker 1: she describe what happened? Yeah? She she said that, you know,
21:46
Speaker 1: she woke up from a nap, and I guess called
21:49
Speaker 1: for Lucas, called his name out and didn't hear anything. Back,
21:52
Speaker 1: went and looked in his room and he was not there.
21:57
Speaker 1: So she turned around and his room is off the itchen,
22:00
Speaker 1: and so is the back door. So she said that
22:03
Speaker 1: when she looked in his room, didn't see him, turned
22:05
Speaker 1: around and saw that the back door was a jar.
22:08
Speaker 1: Then she had, like I guess, ran out in a
22:12
Speaker 1: panic looking for him, but also went over to the
22:14
Speaker 1: neighbor's house ask that they had seen him, and then
22:18
Speaker 1: called nine Under asked the neighbors to call the nine
22:21
Speaker 1: and something about Jonathan. We learned that we well, this
22:25
Speaker 1: is her story that she had left Lucas alone at
22:29
Speaker 1: the home after smoking three bowls of marijuana and drove
22:33
Speaker 1: her daughter to eat at Olive Garden, leaving Lucas with
22:38
Speaker 1: nothing all alone, a five year old in the home.
22:41
Speaker 1: What did she normally do that? Absolutely not, And I
22:45
Speaker 1: was flabbergasted when they told me that she had done that.
22:49
Speaker 1: Did you ever know her to hit or mistreat Lucas? No,
22:54
Speaker 1: I did not not in the three years that I've
22:56
Speaker 1: known her and seen them interact, and you know she's
23:00
Speaker 1: she was always good with him. Did you guys have
23:03
Speaker 1: a stormy relationship? Did you argue about you being out
23:06
Speaker 1: of town? It would come up. I mean it was
23:11
Speaker 1: it was hard, you know, it's hard like that, especially
23:16
Speaker 1: you know, for the kids, but also for her. And
23:19
Speaker 1: I mean it was hard for me being gone. I
23:20
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't want to be away from my family
23:22
Speaker 1: for three weeks at a time. I hear you, I
23:25
Speaker 1: hear you on that, Jonathan. I'm just trying to understand
23:30
Speaker 1: what is happening now. I mean, after I heard these
23:34
Speaker 1: takes that David Marshburn had secretly recorded, I was overwhelmed.
23:42
Speaker 1: She Lee Emily Glass, your girlfriend leads him to Lucas's remains.
23:50
Speaker 1: Have you been to that spot where Lucas was discovered? Yes, ma'am.
23:55
Speaker 1: I've been out there probably three or four times since.
23:59
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you are stronger than me, Jonathan. To
24:02
Speaker 1: this day, I have never returned to where my fiancee
24:06
Speaker 1: was murdering. I just, I just I don't want to.
24:10
Speaker 1: I don't really even know why. I haven't even tried
24:13
Speaker 1: to figure out why. What led you to go to
24:15
Speaker 1: that spot? Jonathan. I I've been, you know, tirelessly trying
24:22
Speaker 1: to search for him in my own way for three months,
24:26
Speaker 1: and I always, you know, just imagined and dreamed where
24:31
Speaker 1: he could be and where we would find him if
24:35
Speaker 1: somebody had him or if you know, as in this case,
24:41
Speaker 1: it turned out to be we weren't able to find
24:45
Speaker 1: him a live and so for me, I just wanted
24:49
Speaker 1: to go to the last known spot. And you know,
24:54
Speaker 1: I just I'm not even really sure what goes through
24:58
Speaker 1: my mind when I go out there, but I just
25:01
Speaker 1: I try to talk to him to myself when I
25:05
Speaker 1: go out there, and I just try to wrap my
25:07
Speaker 1: head around how he could have been left out there
25:09
Speaker 1: for three months. When you go out there and you're
25:14
Speaker 1: thinking it all through, what goes through your mind? Jonathan,
25:19
Speaker 1: I'm devastated that he he was out there for that
25:23
Speaker 1: amount of time, or that he was even out there
25:25
Speaker 1: at all. Why do you say that? Well, it's you know,
25:31
Speaker 1: it's it's your child, you know, And to think that
25:36
Speaker 1: he's out there in that element, I mean when you
25:39
Speaker 1: said whether he was out there at all, what do
25:42
Speaker 1: you mean by that? Oh, like as far as maybe
25:47
Speaker 1: he had been abducted or maybe it was a kidnapping
25:50
Speaker 1: or something like that, but it turned out not to
25:54
Speaker 1: be that case. I'm just trying to take in everything
25:57
Speaker 1: that you're saying. Since luke us body was found, have
26:02
Speaker 1: you spoken to Emily Glass at all? Yes, Um, She's
26:07
Speaker 1: called me from jail, and I spoke with her, I
26:12
Speaker 1: believe one or two times. What does she say, Jonathan,
26:17
Speaker 1: That she's sorry, she can't believe she could ever do
26:22
Speaker 1: this to me, She can't believe she could ever do
26:24
Speaker 1: that to Lucas and leave him out there, and that
26:29
Speaker 1: she's a horrible person, and and just stuff like that.
26:35
Speaker 1: Really has she divulged at all what actually happened, only
26:42
Speaker 1: only the same story of you know, she woke up,
26:45
Speaker 1: she found him and he was he was dead of
26:49
Speaker 1: something in the in the morning or in the evening,
26:52
Speaker 1: and that she panished and went and hit him. All
26:57
Speaker 1: those nights, the three months of searching, of waiting, of
27:02
Speaker 1: wondering where is Lucas? You were together and in that time,
27:07
Speaker 1: never after seeing you suffer, after seeing the helicopters, the
27:11
Speaker 1: a t v s, the search parties, the tracker dogs.
27:15
Speaker 1: What was her demeanor during all that? Because she knew,
27:20
Speaker 1: she knew the whole time where the baby was, her
27:23
Speaker 1: demeanor was fairly normal. Uh, is very believable. It appeared
27:30
Speaker 1: to me that she didn't know anything, which you know,
27:35
Speaker 1: kind of made me believe what her story was at
27:40
Speaker 1: the beginning, that you know, it's probably a possibility you know,
27:44
Speaker 1: a good possibility. That's what happened. When you say she
27:48
Speaker 1: was during all this time everyone was searching for Lucas
27:51
Speaker 1: and you were crying at night into your pillow and
27:54
Speaker 1: looking for your son. When you say she was acting normal,
27:57
Speaker 1: what do you mean by that normal? Like you know,
28:01
Speaker 1: she's she's kind of going through the same thing I am.
28:05
Speaker 1: She's worried about where he is, where he could be.
28:08
Speaker 1: She just wants to find him, just like I've been
28:11
Speaker 1: wanting to find him, and that we just want him
28:14
Speaker 1: to come home. And you know, it did just just
28:21
Speaker 1: kind of everything along the lines of a devastated parents
28:24
Speaker 1: that's going through a traumatic experience would be like was
28:27
Speaker 1: she able to eat during those three months? Was she
28:31
Speaker 1: able to sleep at night? She said that she would
28:35
Speaker 1: have trouble sleeping, but I didn't know if that was
28:38
Speaker 1: from jail or what. She would always complain that it
28:42
Speaker 1: was always loud in there. They would have the lights
28:44
Speaker 1: on sometimes and maybe that was the reason why she could.
28:47
Speaker 1: So she complained that it was loud in the jail
28:50
Speaker 1: and the lights were on. Yes, did she try to
28:54
Speaker 1: help in the search when you first arrived home, Oh,
28:58
Speaker 1: we we did not. I I honestly didn't even try
29:06
Speaker 1: to search, only after speaking with the detectives and explained
29:12
Speaker 1: to them, I don't think he would have wondered off,
29:13
Speaker 1: so I don't believe that he is wandering around. And
29:18
Speaker 1: also they had told me they haven't. They didn't at
29:21
Speaker 1: the time have any leads as far as the tracking
29:26
Speaker 1: dogs following any sense that had left the residence on foot.
29:30
Speaker 1: When you say that she could eat when you first
29:34
Speaker 1: got back, did you see her able to go out
29:37
Speaker 1: to dinner or sit down to the dinner table? And eight,
29:40
Speaker 1: because I know when Keith was murdered, there was a
29:43
Speaker 1: long period of time I couldn't eat or drink a thing.
29:46
Speaker 1: Everything made me sick to my stomach. Why did you
29:49
Speaker 1: say that she had a normal appetite? Well, she yeah,
29:53
Speaker 1: I mean she she was eating, and I was only
29:58
Speaker 1: eating maybe once a day. I mean, like you said,
30:02
Speaker 1: it was so hard. I was literally sipped to my stomach.
30:05
Speaker 1: I wanted to throw up all day every day, but
30:09
Speaker 1: I had to try to force myself to eat so
30:12
Speaker 1: that I could have energy and try to keep going.
30:16
Speaker 1: And what about her, It appeared that she, you know,
30:20
Speaker 1: maybe not eat just like normal three meals as well,
30:23
Speaker 1: like she was going through a traumatic experiences like I was,
30:26
Speaker 1: and it was hard for her to eat as well sometimes.
30:30
Speaker 1: But you know, we would try to eat as as
30:33
Speaker 1: much as we could, as often as we could. Listen
30:36
Speaker 1: to this. I don't know what what Lucas like when
30:40
Speaker 1: he when he passed away. Was it on his back?
30:42
Speaker 1: Did he throw up? It choked on his own? Vomit?
30:45
Speaker 1: Did um? Was he just did in his bed the
30:50
Speaker 1: old couch? Uh? He was on the bed, on the couch,
30:58
Speaker 1: on his side or on his back? Bad? So did
31:01
Speaker 1: you think you vomited and vomit? You didn't. Now they're
31:11
Speaker 1: gonna probably charge you with obstruction. That means you lied
31:14
Speaker 1: to them. Well that's not gonna stick. Obstruction never sticks anyway.
31:20
Speaker 1: So that's that's new. The heir there, they don't even
31:24
Speaker 1: carry a bond like, they don't have a a bond
31:29
Speaker 1: they put you on. It will be together with the
31:33
Speaker 1: concealment of a death. It's a fifty thou dollar max bond.
31:37
Speaker 1: You cannot get a mien doll bond. That's against constitutional rock.
31:41
Speaker 1: The eighth Amendment of the United States is everybody has
31:44
Speaker 1: the right to affordable bond. Affordable bail right. Yes, you did.
31:51
Speaker 1: Fifty thousand was right for that charge you had, and
31:55
Speaker 1: yes it was. I read it up on it. It
31:58
Speaker 1: was the max. And you know I could have bonded
32:00
Speaker 1: you on it, and I told Jonathan I would when
32:04
Speaker 1: I got up here and you weren't released yet, I
32:06
Speaker 1: would bond you. But you were already released, so that
32:09
Speaker 1: was fine. He said, we don't have the five thousand.
32:11
Speaker 1: I said, you don't need to die that first. You
32:14
Speaker 1: have to release me because you aren't friend, Lencas. Do
32:17
Speaker 1: what I mean? It makes sense to why you would
32:19
Speaker 1: release me as to frame Lucas. I get it. No,
32:22
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I had to talk to you. I won't
32:25
Speaker 1: go to get to the jail talk to you and
32:27
Speaker 1: letting them hear it and then they hit you a murder.
32:30
Speaker 1: What I look stupid? I am a smart man, you
32:33
Speaker 1: know that. So I'm making sure my ships right now.
32:37
Speaker 1: Cathy looked up your sister, and your sister's fine to
32:41
Speaker 1: have mine? Is it me or mine? Mia? So that's
32:47
Speaker 1: in the words. And I just don't know what else
32:50
Speaker 1: to tell you. But Lucas is the tradeoff. So I
32:53
Speaker 1: don't know what you want to do on that because
32:56
Speaker 1: we have to have Lucas. I have an idea about
32:59
Speaker 1: where Lucas is and if everything is correct, by about
33:03
Speaker 1: four or four thirty, we should be bringing you back
33:06
Speaker 1: to We should be bringing me back. But lets say it,
33:13
Speaker 1: you won't be in handcuffed. They're not gonna handcuffed, They're
33:15
Speaker 1: not gonna arrest you. And then when we go down there,
33:18
Speaker 1: you're gonna do an interview. But just make sure the
33:22
Speaker 1: story you tell this this time is exactly what we've
33:29
Speaker 1: talked about. You are hearing the sound of the stepmother's
33:33
Speaker 1: voice as she questions private eye Marshburn, what will happen
33:38
Speaker 1: to her now that Lucas's body is found to Joe Scott, Morgan,
33:44
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott, right now, we
33:49
Speaker 1: still don't have the autopsy report back. What's happening. Lucas
33:55
Speaker 1: unfortunately was down for three months, Nancy, and a lot
33:58
Speaker 1: of changes occurred with the body. Right now, they're saying
34:01
Speaker 1: that they're pending toxicology. I think that one important thing
34:04
Speaker 1: here I'm very curious about as a forensic scientist, is this.
34:09
Speaker 1: In your opening, you mentioned that that Lucas's hair was visible,
34:14
Speaker 1: and you had alluded to the fact that his hair
34:17
Speaker 1: was bleached out. In one of Mashburn's comments relative to
34:22
Speaker 1: UH to Emily Uh, she had related to him that
34:26
Speaker 1: she had actually smoked meth and Uh. I'm very curious
34:32
Speaker 1: if they take a hair sample uh with with Lucas's hair,
34:37
Speaker 1: if they're gonna be able to find residual amounts of
34:40
Speaker 1: meth amphetamine. What happens with the hair is that the
34:44
Speaker 1: hair holds onto things that otherwise might dissipate over a
34:48
Speaker 1: period of time. I want to know what was going
34:52
Speaker 1: on with this child because right now we're grasping for straws. Uh.
34:55
Speaker 1: If there is nothing in the physical sense that we
34:58
Speaker 1: can see with him, which they haven't related that yet,
35:03
Speaker 1: then we have to cover every possible base. Was he
35:06
Speaker 1: exposed to crystal meth um, because this can hang on
35:11
Speaker 1: in the hair To Vincent Hill joining me private investigator,
35:15
Speaker 1: Vincent Um, I have never heard of a private eye
35:20
Speaker 1: managing to pull off what Marshburne did and secretly recording
35:26
Speaker 1: her as they're driving around and she actually leads him
35:30
Speaker 1: to Lucas's little body. Vincent, those tapes are going to
35:36
Speaker 1: come in to evidence if there is ever a trial,
35:39
Speaker 1: explain what one party consent means vincent, well, essentially, Nancy,
35:43
Speaker 1: it means as long as one party is aware that
35:46
Speaker 1: there's a recording going on in this during these conversations
35:50
Speaker 1: that can be admitted in court. And David had his
35:53
Speaker 1: partner with him, and she was aware that these conversations
35:56
Speaker 1: were being recorded. So I think when this goes to trial,
35:59
Speaker 1: east apes will be evident. And I think David was
36:02
Speaker 1: on to to quite a bit. You heard Jonathan. He
36:04
Speaker 1: said there was no problems, but there was this problem
36:07
Speaker 1: with this back door that I don't believe Lucas that
36:10
Speaker 1: five years old, would have known about. So I think
36:12
Speaker 1: that was her way of setting the stage to say, oh,
36:16
Speaker 1: someone could come in this back door that we've had
36:18
Speaker 1: problems with. I'm just having a hard time understanding the
36:23
Speaker 1: series of events with me is our special guest, Lucas's father,
36:27
Speaker 1: Jonathan her Nandez, who was out of town and his
36:31
Speaker 1: alibi has been checked every which way. At the time
36:35
Speaker 1: Lucas goes missing, he drives through the night in his
36:38
Speaker 1: car to get back to Kansas and still no real
36:42
Speaker 1: answers from the stepmother, Emily Glass. Emily Glass is charged
36:47
Speaker 1: with driving under the influence with her daughter she is
36:50
Speaker 1: acquitted on that, but now she's walking free. The only
36:54
Speaker 1: person that really knows what happened to Lucas but Jonathan Hernandez.
36:59
Speaker 1: The fact that she led she led Marshburn to Lucas's body.
37:07
Speaker 1: What about that lucation, Jonathan, What does that location mean?
37:11
Speaker 1: Does that have any significance? Why would she have disposed
37:15
Speaker 1: of Lucas way out there? Honestly, I don't know. Um,
37:20
Speaker 1: I've never been out there, and I didn't think it
37:23
Speaker 1: was that far out of town whenever I first went
37:26
Speaker 1: out there. But yes, it's very remote and that's the
37:29
Speaker 1: only thing that I can can gather as far as
37:32
Speaker 1: maybe that's why she picked that location. How do you,
37:36
Speaker 1: as you're trying to make sense of this in your mind,
37:39
Speaker 1: reconcile those months that you were looking over ninety days
37:45
Speaker 1: looking for Lucas. While she acted like nothing had happened,
37:51
Speaker 1: she was still stinking to the story that she woke
37:54
Speaker 1: up from a nap and he had just wandered off.
37:57
Speaker 1: It's it's very difficult to know that she knew the
38:00
Speaker 1: whole time, and it's it baffles me every single day
38:08
Speaker 1: when I try to replay everything in my mind and
38:14
Speaker 1: I'm literally in disbelief. I just I have no idea
38:20
Speaker 1: the police actually believe that that she wakes up from
38:24
Speaker 1: a nap and just finds Lucas dead in his bad
38:28
Speaker 1: a five year old boy? Do you believe that? I
38:33
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I could speculate. I really don't know,
38:37
Speaker 1: and I would prefer to wait till the facts come out,
38:42
Speaker 1: wait till the autopsy report comes back, and I would
38:44
Speaker 1: really like to know what they think happened before I say,
38:50
Speaker 1: you know, that's probably what happened, or it's a possibility,
38:53
Speaker 1: or or anything of that nature. I just find it
38:56
Speaker 1: so difficult to understand why if a child, if you
39:00
Speaker 1: thought the child was dead, why didn't you call nine
39:02
Speaker 1: one one? Why didn't you try to save the child's life?
39:05
Speaker 1: Why would you dispose of the boy's body out under
39:09
Speaker 1: a bridge? Jonathan? Has she ever addressed that? Um? She
39:14
Speaker 1: she said that she had panic. I'm not sure if
39:17
Speaker 1: it was because she was smoking meth, which I had
39:20
Speaker 1: no knowledge of, but I I asked her the same thing,
39:24
Speaker 1: you know, why didn't you call nine one one? Why
39:27
Speaker 1: you know, if that's what happened and it was an accident,
39:30
Speaker 1: or he was asleep and he died for something, why
39:35
Speaker 1: not call nine one one because they would have been
39:37
Speaker 1: able to figure out why they would have, you know,
39:40
Speaker 1: like you said, maybe being able to save him. M hm,
39:45
Speaker 1: Well that still bothers me. And when you asked her
39:48
Speaker 1: why she didn't call nine one once, you just kept
39:50
Speaker 1: saying she panicked. She just did Lucas have any type
39:54
Speaker 1: of health issue, a medical problem, a congenital heart issue,
39:58
Speaker 1: a breathing issue that you know of, no immediate health
40:02
Speaker 1: problems other than he had been vomiting for a few
40:07
Speaker 1: weeks and we had taken him to the doctor and
40:11
Speaker 1: they had given him a prescription for liquid zoe Frans
40:16
Speaker 1: and even the prescription didn't seem to help his vomiting.
40:20
Speaker 1: So to me, I mean, I don't know if it
40:24
Speaker 1: could be complications from that or that maybe he hadn't
40:28
Speaker 1: got enough nutrients from vomiting so long, and maybe there
40:32
Speaker 1: was a problem. But if you would have been able
40:35
Speaker 1: to clone nine with one, we would have been able
40:38
Speaker 1: to figure out what had happened. Dude, Joseph's got Morgan
40:41
Speaker 1: forensics expert. If he had, let's just say, vomited, I
40:46
Speaker 1: don't see how that would have killed him. And also
40:50
Speaker 1: she said her nap was just three hours. I don't
40:55
Speaker 1: see how anyone could vomit to the extent they die
40:58
Speaker 1: in that amount of time. No, I don't see that either, Nancy.
41:02
Speaker 1: I don't see how that's even remotely possible. Plus, I
41:06
Speaker 1: would imagine that they did a pretty thorough sweep at
41:09
Speaker 1: the house initially, there would have been some type of
41:12
Speaker 1: evidence of that, I would think, unless she thought enough
41:15
Speaker 1: to clean up the room. But why would she if
41:18
Speaker 1: he was vomiting? Would she want to volunteer that? To
41:21
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcote, the founder of child crime watch dot com,
41:24
Speaker 1: juvenile judge and lawyer, Ashley, I mean, in my mind,
41:27
Speaker 1: it doesn't fit together. Now police have let her walk free.
41:32
Speaker 1: She is not named a suspect in this case. But
41:36
Speaker 1: to me, this it just doesn't hang together. No vomit,
41:40
Speaker 1: no prior medical condition, It just doesn't work for me.
41:43
Speaker 1: It reminds me a great deal of when Kelly Anthony
41:47
Speaker 1: went missing and there was no health issue, nothing like that.
41:51
Speaker 1: No one could explain what had happened. As we know
41:54
Speaker 1: in all cases, somebody knows what happened. In this particular case,
41:57
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to note no vomiting don't
42:00
Speaker 1: know what happened, but we do know some other things.
42:02
Speaker 1: She admits that she used meth amphetamines. That is a
42:05
Speaker 1: drug that causes people, and people do things and they're
42:09
Speaker 1: out of their mind and commit crimes and killed children.
42:12
Speaker 1: We've seen it in other cases. I'm not saying they
42:15
Speaker 1: all do. I'm saying they're extenuating circumstances. That mean, I
42:18
Speaker 1: think we cannot believe that she didn't do something to
42:22
Speaker 1: this child. All the other circumstances and things leading up
42:26
Speaker 1: to this, it's very likely she did it. At a minimum,
42:29
Speaker 1: she knows what happened to him, but I don't believe
42:32
Speaker 1: it was because of something wrong with him or health issues.
42:35
Speaker 1: I think, plain and simple, she killed this child. And
42:38
Speaker 1: again she is not named as suspect at this juncture.
42:41
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, host of Investigation Discoveries hit show Fatal,
42:45
Speaker 1: vows way in Brian, I'll put it the same way
42:50
Speaker 1: that I put it when we were talking in the
42:53
Speaker 1: early days of of the Kaylee Anthony disappearance. It is
42:58
Speaker 1: tough for me to imagine in any way in which
43:02
Speaker 1: Lucas Hernandez died that does not involve Emily Glass doing
43:08
Speaker 1: something nefarious and so yes, Ashley's correct, of course that
43:13
Speaker 1: intoxication with methamphetamine can make a person, uh you know,
43:18
Speaker 1: completely completely behave in in violent, erratic, crazy ways. But
43:24
Speaker 1: it's very important for us to also point out that
43:28
Speaker 1: if that is involved, and and that is something that
43:31
Speaker 1: was in play, and she did something in the throes
43:34
Speaker 1: of a of a methamphetamine high and then realized when
43:37
Speaker 1: she started to sober up that she had done it,
43:40
Speaker 1: and and that's what the panic is about. Keep in mind,
43:43
Speaker 1: most of us when we panic, we want law enforcement.
43:45
Speaker 1: We want law enforcement to come and help us with
43:48
Speaker 1: whatever it is we're panicked about. So somebody who panics
43:50
Speaker 1: when something horrible has happened to a child, uh, lets
43:54
Speaker 1: you know that they probably feel that they had some
43:57
Speaker 1: blame in it. And so if that is the is
44:00
Speaker 1: that is absolutely not the basis of an insanity defense.
44:04
Speaker 1: Voluntary intoxication is not grounds for an insanity defense. My
44:09
Speaker 1: question is back to you, Jonathan Hernandez. It seems to
44:14
Speaker 1: me that it just must be so hard to reconcile
44:18
Speaker 1: what is happening now. Are police giving you any indication
44:22
Speaker 1: of when the autopsy will be complete? I heard that
44:29
Speaker 1: it may be completed today or tomorrow, that they were
44:33
Speaker 1: still unsure of an actual time, but that it would be.
44:39
Speaker 1: And have they given you any explanation of why Emily
44:43
Speaker 1: Glass is not being held? No, they have not. Jonathan,
44:50
Speaker 1: do you feel that Lucas has tried to reach out
44:54
Speaker 1: to you? Have you felt his presence? Yes? I always have.
45:03
Speaker 1: I feel it very strongly. We we had a close connection.
45:07
Speaker 1: We had a very very close bond um through you know,
45:12
Speaker 1: ever since he was born. You know, he was born
45:15
Speaker 1: with his lungs were underdeveloped. He had to spend six
45:19
Speaker 1: weeks in the nick you and during that time we
45:23
Speaker 1: found out he had a cleft palate, and so they
45:26
Speaker 1: put a feeding tube in his stomach what's called a
45:30
Speaker 1: Mickey button, and we actually had to feed him with
45:34
Speaker 1: a special bottle which has a longer nipple so that
45:38
Speaker 1: he's able to try to create some suction on that,
45:42
Speaker 1: but also you know what he was unable to eat orally.
45:46
Speaker 1: We would also have to feed him the difference through
45:49
Speaker 1: a feeding pump and things of that nature. And we
45:53
Speaker 1: went through very similar things, both of my shoulder and
45:57
Speaker 1: the NIKKEI for about six Swiggs, I know exactly what
46:01
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Tell me Jonathan about Lucas as a boy,
46:07
Speaker 1: I want to imagine him and think about him in life.
46:12
Speaker 1: He's always been a fighter. I mean, he came out
46:16
Speaker 1: of the nick you his oxygen levels got down into
46:19
Speaker 1: the thirties, I believe forties, and we were always concerned
46:23
Speaker 1: if if he was going to have developmental problems or
46:27
Speaker 1: you know, any kind of problems from from having such
46:29
Speaker 1: a struggle since birth. And you know, it turns out
46:35
Speaker 1: that he started progressing normally. He was a little underweight
46:39
Speaker 1: and things like that nature because it was a little
46:41
Speaker 1: harder for him to feed, but he fought his way
46:46
Speaker 1: through that. And you know, we had to feed him morning,
46:50
Speaker 1: day and night. I mean it was round the clock.
46:53
Speaker 1: It took both of us, me and Jamie, just tirelessly
46:58
Speaker 1: taking shifts to try to it to care for him,
47:02
Speaker 1: and he he made it through it. You know, at
47:05
Speaker 1: one and a half years of age, he finally had
47:08
Speaker 1: surgery and got his cleft pallet fixed and it was
47:12
Speaker 1: like the greatest day of his life and our life
47:16
Speaker 1: because he was finally able to eat without any problems
47:20
Speaker 1: and drink and so he he started just being a
47:27
Speaker 1: normal kid again. Jonathan, at any time, did he ever
47:32
Speaker 1: tell you that Emily was being made to him. No, ma'am,
47:36
Speaker 1: he did not. Do you remember the moment when Marshburn
47:40
Speaker 1: contacted you and told you that Lucas's remains had been found? Yes,
47:45
Speaker 1: I do. I'll probably never forget it. What happened. I
47:49
Speaker 1: had just arrived to work after driving eleven hours and
47:54
Speaker 1: sat down for about ten minutes, and I was going
47:57
Speaker 1: to start my shift in about thirty minutes, and he
48:01
Speaker 1: had called me. And I wasn't sure why he was
48:04
Speaker 1: calling me, but I answered and he was like, are
48:07
Speaker 1: you around anyone? I said no, and he's like, I
48:11
Speaker 1: just found Lucas. And I almost fainted. You know, my
48:16
Speaker 1: heart started racing. I meant to into an anxiety state,
48:21
Speaker 1: and and I started asking him questions like where is he?
48:26
Speaker 1: Does he you know, how does he look? Does he
48:27
Speaker 1: have clothes on? Are your shirts Lucas? You know, crying
48:31
Speaker 1: and and freaking out, and he said that, you know,
48:35
Speaker 1: it is Lucas. And he's like, I've already called the police, uh,
48:39
Speaker 1: and now I'm calling you. They're on their way out here.
48:43
Speaker 1: And I got off the phone with him. I guess
48:46
Speaker 1: that way he could speak with detectives and everybody that
48:49
Speaker 1: was showing up. Did he tell you that Emily had
48:52
Speaker 1: led him to Lucas's remains? Yes, he did with me.
48:56
Speaker 1: Is Jonathan Hernandez, Lucas's father, Brian Russell's and Saint Hill,
49:00
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Morgan, Ashley Wilcott, and Lee Egan. This is
49:04
Speaker 1: what we were learning at this hour. Reportedly police back
49:07
Speaker 1: at Lucas her Nandez home just last night investigating again.
49:13
Speaker 1: There are claims two autopsies have been completed on the child.
49:18
Speaker 1: All we know right now is it is now believed,
49:21
Speaker 1: based on autopsy two, that five year old Lucas died
49:25
Speaker 1: the tenth or the eleventh in a bathroom. How do
49:29
Speaker 1: we know this as of yet unconfirmed, but something about
49:32
Speaker 1: the autopsy or the late night search last night seems
49:35
Speaker 1: to indicate Lucas was killed in the home's bathroom. To
49:40
Speaker 1: Jonathan her Nandez, you have no idea how much we
49:44
Speaker 1: have prayed for you and tried our best in any
49:47
Speaker 1: way we can to help find Lucas. And even now
49:51
Speaker 1: those prayers go on, and the prayers for justice and
49:55
Speaker 1: for your peace and for little Lucas. Nancy Grace Crime
49:58
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