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504 CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR Part 1 with Special Guest Shannon McClung · The Cine-Files

0:01
[UNKNOWN]: You think you fight for us is fight for yourself.
0:08
[UNKNOWN]: Who's going to avenge my son Stark?
0:12
[UNKNOWN]: He's dead, and I blame you.
0:24
[UNKNOWN]: Hello and welcome back to the Citophiles where each week we enter the world of a great film we explore its themes, the history, the film making, and the influence it has on us today.
0:31
[UNKNOWN]: My name is Steve Morris.
0:32
[UNKNOWN]: I'm a filmmaker and directing instructor in Los Angeles, California.
0:38
[UNKNOWN]: Hello everyone!
0:39
[UNKNOWN]: My name is, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, hello, my name is John Rookham, writer, producer, host, and voiceover artists down here in San Diego, California, and really, really excited to jump into this movie with you, Steve, and with our special guest.
0:59
[UNKNOWN]: That's right, we cannot discuss.
1:01
[UNKNOWN]: It is actually written in the bylaws of the cinephiles that we cannot discuss at Captain America movie without bringing on our very special guest unless there's a scheduling issue or some reason why we can't do it.
1:12
[UNKNOWN]: And that special guest, of course, is GeekBuddy, actor, and writer Shannon McClung.
1:17
[UNKNOWN]: Welcome back to the cinephiles.
1:20
[UNKNOWN]: I can do this all day like and I know you edit this Steve I don't know how much of what we've already recorded is gonna make it in but because I don't do this as well as you all do any time Something unscripted happens.
1:34
[UNKNOWN]: I get very quiet and I put my back and over my mouth because I don't want my laughter to to make it into the recording
1:41
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I'll tell you there's a very, very clear rule or guide in editing, which is that if the unwanted sound has is somehow separate from the wanted sound, it can be edited out.
1:54
[UNKNOWN]: If the unwanted sound fades perfectly into the wanted sound, for instance, a clearing of one's throat, transitioning exactly into the introduction of the show, and we didn't re-record it, that's staying in.
2:13
[UNKNOWN]: I got no shame.
2:14
[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
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[UNKNOWN]: We all cut our coats.
2:30
[UNKNOWN]: that people come to the cinephiles for people like our incredible supporters on Apple podcast, and of course the people on patreon.com slash the cinephiles, including our advisory board who we're having a meeting with.
2:41
[UNKNOWN]: I think it about a week and a half to talk about the holiday season next year season of Oscars that are going to be coming up.
2:50
[UNKNOWN]: And if you want to be part of that conversation, you just have to go to patreon.com slash the cinephiles.
2:55
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there you go.
2:56
[UNKNOWN]: Do it.
2:57
[UNKNOWN]: Also, another way you can support us here on the set of files is if you listen to it with the show with the ads, if you hear about a good, a good, a product or a service that you want to try out, then please make sure you reach out to them using our code because you're going to discount on the product or good or service that you want to try out and you'll indicate to them to keep coming back every month to support us here.
3:19
[UNKNOWN]: on the set of files.
3:19
[UNKNOWN]: And I think right now, we've got quince running with us, Nord VPN, 11 readers.
3:24
[UNKNOWN]: So many good people have, excuse me, good companies have supported us throughout the year.
3:28
[UNKNOWN]: So thank you to them.
3:29
[UNKNOWN]: And thank you to you all who have been using their stuff and encouraging them to keep coming back and supporting us here every month on the show.
3:37
[UNKNOWN]: So about, I don't know, five, six years ago, we made a fateful decision, a bold and fateful decision on the cinephiles.
3:45
[UNKNOWN]: To cover every MCU movie around 10 years after it came out and that led us into a place that ended up getting kind of strange because we said that we made that decision right at the end of peak marvel.
3:59
[UNKNOWN]: And then,
4:00
[UNKNOWN]: the peak subsided.
4:02
[UNKNOWN]: And as we kind of dragged our way through some movies that we did live shows of dark world or things like that that we didn't really love.
4:10
[UNKNOWN]: And we're looking forward to the later MCU where it's sort of like, we really wanna talk about the internals and marvels and these things.
4:19
[UNKNOWN]: I don't really know what we're gonna be doing.
4:21
[UNKNOWN]: It's started to feel like a weird decision.
4:23
[UNKNOWN]: And here's the thing about this.
4:25
[UNKNOWN]: Is the movie that we're talking about today,
4:29
[UNKNOWN]: is a perfect piece of evidence of why we felt the way we felt at the end of this incredible Marvel run.
4:36
[UNKNOWN]: And that movie is Captain America Civil War.
4:39
[UNKNOWN]: And John, like you, I am so excited to talk about this.
4:43
[UNKNOWN]: I've had so much fun watching it.
4:44
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's so good.
4:46
[UNKNOWN]: And it really proves why we were so enthusiastic about the Marvel Cinematic Universe when we were that enthusiastic.
4:54
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this is like the climb on the roller coaster, like right as you, this is right that first dip.
5:00
[UNKNOWN]: Like right after you climb and then go right down, Captain America Civil War.
5:04
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I think a winter soldier is the anticipation of the possibility of what it could be, but then civil war is like right in it, man.
5:12
[UNKNOWN]: And I was blown away watching it again for our conversation.
5:17
[UNKNOWN]: And I'll tell you a little preview of my points of views.
5:20
[UNKNOWN]: I was so hard core team Iron Man,
5:23
[UNKNOWN]: for years, but it's been a while since I've seen the movie and watching at this time around, I think it's been five to six years and I see the film, I have a completely different perspective on this movie as an older man now where we're gonna talk about it as we go along where I'm not necessarily team Iron Man fully or am I team cap fully?
5:45
[UNKNOWN]: And I think this is a fascinating place for me to be in now because I used to fight were hours with people about being team Iron Man versus team cap.
5:52
[UNKNOWN]: Well, that's fantastic because I think that's going to make the conversation even better because behind the scenes we did have actually some difficulty figuring out if we could actually get this scheduled and have Shannon on.
6:03
[UNKNOWN]: And one of the factors was before you told me this, you and I were both pretty strongly team Iron Man.
6:10
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
6:10
[UNKNOWN]: And concern that we wouldn't have a good conversation unless someone else had a different point of view.
6:16
[UNKNOWN]: And now I think we might have
6:27
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, going back and rewatching the movie, I understand to a degree for the folks that are team Ironman.
6:35
[UNKNOWN]: I understand to a degree where they are coming from.
6:38
[UNKNOWN]: But as the movie finishes, you'll know that ultimately Tony was not right.
6:44
[UNKNOWN]: Steve was not totally right, but Steve was going after one he was trying to protect his friend.
6:52
[UNKNOWN]: And, but second, he ended up being proven right in that, you know, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll
7:08
[UNKNOWN]: one of the many many things that are so great about Captain America Civil War is in addition to being a fantastic action movie with amazing action sequences that delivers on every little superhero thing we want.
7:19
[UNKNOWN]: In addition to having a whole bunch of characters we really care about, who we track and have very complicated and interesting internal and interpersonal conflicts.
7:29
[UNKNOWN]: In addition to all that, this movie is about something, and it is not about something that everybody agrees on.
7:34
[UNKNOWN]: It's about something that you can watch the movie,
7:36
[UNKNOWN]: be a huge fan of the movie, be talking to someone else who's a huge fan of the movie, and have different points of view coming out of it about what it means and what it says.
7:46
[UNKNOWN]: And that is the sign of a great film.
7:51
[UNKNOWN]: And addition to the arguments from both sides of the spectrum, you also have when you're looking at the Marvel Cinematic Universe, we have four Avengers movies.
7:58
[UNKNOWN]: This is spiritual spiritually.
8:00
[UNKNOWN]: This is an Avengers movie.
8:01
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it is a Captain America movie first, but it is very much an Avengers movie.
8:06
[UNKNOWN]: And when you look at the dynamic of the Avengers, I would argue that this is.
8:10
[UNKNOWN]: The second most Avengers of Avengers movie, and the first would be Avengers Age of Ultron, because that is where they are a team already.
8:17
[UNKNOWN]: Like they have a dynamic that they work with them.
8:22
[UNKNOWN]: And at the beginning of Captain America Civil War, it is a different team, but they have that same dynamic.
8:27
[UNKNOWN]: You see the way the inner workings of the team.
8:30
[UNKNOWN]: You see almost how the team works better without Tony, because Steve is the lone voice of leadership in that team.
8:41
[UNKNOWN]: But ultimately, when you look at what Ross did, gathering evidence basically to be like the Avengers can no longer act as an independent organization, I think Ross's argument is bullshit.
8:56
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
8:56
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
8:57
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely bullshit.
8:59
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, this is going to be a fun discussion.
9:01
[UNKNOWN]: When we get to this scene.
9:02
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not saying he's 100% wrong, but he's real close.
9:07
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so I will say this, you know, to me this is, this is when Marvel used to be about something, right?
9:16
[UNKNOWN]: Like the guts they had to do a film like this that essentially calls out all their superheroes.
9:21
[UNKNOWN]: That raw scene is so,
9:23
[UNKNOWN]: adamant about showcasing all the errors that they've made, all the people that they live on, all the destruction that they left behind and were casual about and still making jokes and cracking yuckyucks while all these bodies from their previous adventures are still buried in the ground or still recovering in hospitals and family members are crying over the loss of them because of what's been involved.
9:47
[UNKNOWN]: In vision says it, right?
9:49
[UNKNOWN]: because we've popped up, there's a causality, that's really important, and that happens in all superhero movies, right, like the, or superhero comic books.
9:57
[UNKNOWN]: The second superhero sums up all of a sudden, super villains pop up.
10:00
[UNKNOWN]: It's balancing of the universe, and so I find that this film explores this terrain really in really interesting ways,
10:08
[UNKNOWN]: And nowadays we have a Marvel that's defamed, that's scared to take these kinds of chances, that's scared to have conversations about ramifications and consequences of casualness of actions.
10:19
[UNKNOWN]: And I love that this is back then when this was Marvel in its prime.
10:23
[UNKNOWN]: This is an athlete that has hit its prime in his averaging 30 points of game.
10:27
[UNKNOWN]: Like it's amazing to watch this.
10:29
[UNKNOWN]: And you want this back again in Marvel.
10:32
[UNKNOWN]: So the film in a lot of ways is a time capsule.
10:34
[UNKNOWN]: but also a reminder of how great Marvel could be because of these intense discussions, you know?
10:40
[UNKNOWN]: So, Shannon McClunch, how did you first come to Captain America Civil War?
10:46
[UNKNOWN]: I think I have the photo of us, because I'm pretty sure it's on social media because we all saw it.
10:52
[UNKNOWN]: I'm assuming it would have been the night before at the Arclite and Hollywood.
10:57
[UNKNOWN]: There was a group of about, I want to say about between 20 and 30 of us,
11:04
[UNKNOWN]: This was, you know, phase three is where the Marvel machine really took off.
11:09
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, the end of phase one with Avengers, it's like, oh my gosh, they can do it.
11:13
[UNKNOWN]: Phase two was a bit of a mixed bag.
11:16
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, Iron Man 3, even though we ended up getting a great character out of Trevor Slattery, Iron Man 3 ended up being a little bit of a huff.
11:25
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, despite the fact that it made over a billion dollars, which was only, I guess at the time, the second Marvel movie to do it following the Avengers.
11:34
[UNKNOWN]: We did get Captain America winner soldier, which some folks would still argue is the greatest Marvel movie we've ever gotten.
11:41
[UNKNOWN]: You also got Thor the Dark World, which Johnny and I are fans of, but I certainly don't I certainly don't bels merch anyone, they're dislike of that movie.
11:55
[UNKNOWN]: You can watch Age of Ultron now in little bite-sized chunks, and I think it's actually a very, very satisfying watch.
12:01
[UNKNOWN]: And then you got Ant-Man, which was the first time they did something kind of smaller stakes, you know, no pun intended.
12:08
[UNKNOWN]: But it's leading into Civil War, we were so excited.
12:14
[UNKNOWN]: It's that ambient energy and a theater that I'm hoping we are able to recapture with Doomsday this this December.
12:25
[UNKNOWN]: But we were also jazzed and this is only the Russo brothers second at that.
12:31
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, and like from moment one, you could just feel the audience lean forward.
12:37
[UNKNOWN]: And this is the first Marvel movie.
12:40
[UNKNOWN]: It's opening weekend that I think I saw, oh, I'm really going to sound like a dark.
12:44
[UNKNOWN]: I think I saw like three times because I saw Thursday night with us.
12:50
[UNKNOWN]: I think I saw Saturday afternoon and then there was a friend of mine from work that had had kids and was not able to, you know, to get out to the movies that often.
13:01
[UNKNOWN]: She's like, he's like, I could go see it at 10.
13:04
[UNKNOWN]: on Saturday and I'm like, you know what, I'll go see it with you at 10.
13:07
[UNKNOWN]: For the third viewing that probably wasn't the best idea because you know, come one 30.
13:13
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, yeah, I know what happens.
13:14
[UNKNOWN]: I'm really tired.
13:16
[UNKNOWN]: But Captain America's Civil War, I mean, this is still for me a top 10 Marvel film.
13:21
[UNKNOWN]: John, I mean, I think we already have the answer to your to the question, but do you have any memories of seeing this the first time?
13:26
[UNKNOWN]: It's the answer is all three of us.
13:29
[UNKNOWN]: May 6, 2016.
13:31
[UNKNOWN]: I'm looking at the photo right now.
13:33
[UNKNOWN]: It is you, it is me.
13:36
[UNKNOWN]: It is Santa McClung.
13:37
[UNKNOWN]: It is Steve Morris in the back there.
13:40
[UNKNOWN]: And we have so many of our friends.
13:42
[UNKNOWN]: A some still living in Los Angeles, some who have left, some who've become executives like Jonathan Gabé, some of them who've become really well-known actresses like Saru Blu, like, and other executives, Michael Ross, friends who've been on the show.
13:55
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it's amazing to see how many people Brian Leonard, who were part of this crew that went to see Captain America Civil War, May 6, 2016.
14:04
[UNKNOWN]: at least that's the first time I saw it unless Steve got to see an earlier showing and then game with us that night, they'll three of us saw it on the same night in the same group of friends at the Earthlight.
14:13
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I was there that was in the the golden era of these big trips to the movies with huge crews.
14:19
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
14:20
[UNKNOWN]: And to me this movie,
14:23
[UNKNOWN]: I can't say definitively that this is the greatest comic book nerd gazzam movie experience for me, but on some, because this is the splash page movie or much more so than Avengers.
14:38
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
14:38
[UNKNOWN]: Like Avengers, I think you described it perfectly Shannon, which is they prove they could do it.
14:43
[UNKNOWN]: And Avengers has kind of...
14:46
[UNKNOWN]: not aged that great and Ultron maybe has aged a little better, both of them are kind of mixed.
14:52
[UNKNOWN]: When you get to Civil War, it's like, oh no, they're not only are they doing it, they're nailing it.
14:58
[UNKNOWN]: It was such a great movie going experience for me.
15:02
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, agreed.
15:03
[UNKNOWN]: Just having a blast with the film.
15:05
[UNKNOWN]: And it made you want to watch it over and over again, plus the splash page.
15:08
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, people forget like, this was a timer.
15:10
[UNKNOWN]: We didn't know if the Rooster brothers were going to be able to pull it off.
15:13
[UNKNOWN]: Like Avengers was already a shocking thing that they were able to do.
15:17
[UNKNOWN]: The first Avengers movie.
15:19
[UNKNOWN]: Then Age of Ultron came and they added a few more ventures, but this was the one with the trailers that was straight out of a comic book where it was the full both sides of the comic book.
15:28
[UNKNOWN]: You're seeing the widescreen landscape of one team on one side, full of heroes and one team on another side, full of heroes running at each other and we get it in the airport scene in Civil War.
15:41
[UNKNOWN]: And so the the Nurgazement Disappation.
15:45
[UNKNOWN]: before this movie came out.
15:47
[UNKNOWN]: Some people might forget, but there was a lot of cautious optimism, but a healthy dose of trepidation that the Russo brothers, the guys from community, would be able to get something this massive right and still have enough space for all these superheroes to have their time in the movie.
16:05
[UNKNOWN]: they showed a lot in that trailer.
16:07
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, they just showed the moment where Hawkeye is knocking the arrow with Antman riding the arrowhead, which, you know, DC has their version of that, too, with Green Arrow and the Adam.
16:16
[UNKNOWN]: But, you know, you see a shot like that and it's like, how are you, you're, you're given everything away.
16:22
[UNKNOWN]: And then when you finally see the movie, it's like, oh my gosh, you didn't, there's actually more in this.
16:27
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, to, to,
16:29
[UNKNOWN]: to watch the Russo brothers out-Joss Joss Weaton in his direction of those, of those scenes, not just the action scenes, but like the scenes where the team, the team is having this, this ethics discussion.
16:48
[UNKNOWN]: You actually saw how the Russo brothers were probably better directors than Joss Weaton, even though Joss Weaton had that reputation for that crackling dialogue.
16:58
[UNKNOWN]: There's no question in my mind that the Russo brothers are better directors than just Ween.
17:02
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think Joss Ween is a great director.
17:04
[UNKNOWN]: I think Joss Ween is a good writer who does write good dialogue and has directed some movies I like.
17:11
[UNKNOWN]: He hasn't directed any movies actually that I love Then I can pick up whereas the Russo's have
17:17
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
17:19
[UNKNOWN]: And another thing this movie did is amazing, back when Marvel could do this more seamlessly, it launches the Spider-Man franchise and it launches Black Panther.
17:28
[UNKNOWN]: So this movie, along with telling a pretty phenomenal expansive story, also is able to do service to the overall universe of Marvel and the brand of Marvel and the studio, the Disney studio by launching two new franchises within its scope of the story that it's telling.
17:47
[UNKNOWN]: There is so much a civil war does that is that you could argue makes it the watershed moment or movie in the MCU.
17:55
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and the other thing I want to bring up here is, like, and I'm sure I'll probably say this multiple times through the course of these many, I think podcast, at least two, possibly three, is that I think your degree of difficulty is something we have to consider here, which is, and I'm not saying that a more difficult movie is therefore better than a simple movie, sometimes the simplest movie is the greatest, it can be the greatest film.
18:19
[UNKNOWN]: But.
18:19
[UNKNOWN]: handling this many characters and delivering with every single one of the characters, having all the characters feel like themselves, having each one of them have their own internal conflicts, their own interpersonal conflicts, and tracking those throughout this entire movie, and giving us satisfying matchups and fights and physical things that satisfy our desire for what we want to see these characters do physically.
18:45
[UNKNOWN]: To do all of those things in the course of a two and a half hour movie, the degree of difficulty for this is off the charts and really is only exceeded by infinity war and endgame that have to do this times two or three.
18:58
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the amount of supporting character arcs that are in this.
19:03
[UNKNOWN]: That when you are editing and I think Steve will be able to to, you know, testify to this stronger than I could When you're looking at things when you have to get your runtime down Supporting character arcs are kind of one of the first things because it's like we do we actually need this does this help the end product For this movie may be not but because of what then happened in infinity for because of what then happened in in game
19:29
[UNKNOWN]: because of then what happened in one division, the amount of things that they were able to softly plant in age of all-tron and were able to water here, bloomed beautifully from a story perspective, the further we got down the MCU road and it's something that
19:50
[UNKNOWN]: you know, not not not not to get into the multi-versauga weeds, but it's something that they have not been able to really replicate as successfully the the the the larger this this universe has grown.
20:06
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it seems like they wanted to fertilize a whole bunch of new gardens and ended up just shoveling a lot of manure.
20:14
[UNKNOWN]: Eventually.
20:16
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
20:17
[UNKNOWN]: But a lot of it's still around the Scarlet Witch is still a massive part, which vision is still a massive part.
20:23
[UNKNOWN]: We have a vision quest series going right now.
20:25
[UNKNOWN]: Baron Zimo was a huge part of Captain America.
20:28
[UNKNOWN]: I'm sorry.
20:28
[UNKNOWN]: It felt good in which a soldier.
20:29
[UNKNOWN]: So like a lot of stuff to introduce here.
20:32
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, some of it does become a newer, but some of it blossomed with that spider band franchise.
20:37
[UNKNOWN]: And that black Panther franchise into something amazing.
20:40
[UNKNOWN]: Well, you shovel enough shit, eventually something will grow.
20:42
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, that's a good hope.
20:44
[UNKNOWN]: So, okay, let's do a little bit of free production.
20:48
[UNKNOWN]: So, after we're in a soldier, the Rusos have it in their deal that they're selected to direct a cap 3.
20:55
[UNKNOWN]: And so what happens is there wasn't specifically a plan for Cap 3, what the MCU does a lot is they read a lot of comic books.
21:04
[UNKNOWN]: And so they pulled out here are the great runs in Captain America and the Rusos are kind of looking through them and there's this one and there's this one and they keep coming back to the run Captain America Civil War, which I've actually never read.
21:16
[UNKNOWN]: It's written by Mark Melar and the problem with Captain America Civil War is not only does it need a lot more superheroes
21:24
[UNKNOWN]: But it needs the most expensive character in the MCU, which is Robert Downey Jr. to play Tony Stark.
21:30
[UNKNOWN]: So this creates big problems.
21:33
[UNKNOWN]: It creates big schedule problems.
21:34
[UNKNOWN]: It creates big money problems.
21:36
[UNKNOWN]: But the marvel is writing high at the moment.
21:40
[UNKNOWN]: And so they
21:41
[UNKNOWN]: cautiously decide to move forward with this.
21:44
[UNKNOWN]: This doesn't mean a green light.
21:46
[UNKNOWN]: This doesn't mean that that Iron Man and Captain America are both going to be in this Captain America movie.
21:51
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't mean any of that, but it does mean that our two writers, Marcus and McFeely, who had done the Chronicles of Narnia.
21:58
[UNKNOWN]: They had done Captain America the first Avenger, Winter Soldier.
22:01
[UNKNOWN]: They did dark world and they went on to do Infinity War and Endgame.
22:05
[UNKNOWN]: So for talking about peak Marvel, these two writers, Marcus and McPhilly are really central to all of that.
22:12
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
22:13
[UNKNOWN]: And so they start working on the script and the big question is who did they want to put in?
22:18
[UNKNOWN]: And they're pretty sure that we'll have Black Widow and Vision and some of the other characters and there's some other big question marks.
22:26
[UNKNOWN]: And John, just as you said, like, or I think both of you said,
22:29
[UNKNOWN]: At this time, Marvel is now starting to have enough confidence that it's like, well, we're going to introduce new characters.
22:37
[UNKNOWN]: They knew they just on Antman and they said, well, for going to do Captain America Civil War, then this will be a great time to introduce the idea of giant man.
22:46
[UNKNOWN]: So that was one of the first things they knew that they were going to do.
22:49
[UNKNOWN]: Then they said, you know what, we're going to use this to introduce black Panthers.
22:53
[UNKNOWN]: So that starts a whole other set of things because they know that, you know, black Panthers on the slate, Ryan Cootler is slated to direct it.
23:03
[UNKNOWN]: They haven't cast black Panthers yet.
23:05
[UNKNOWN]: They, and which means that you have this whole giant movie that's starting that needs.
23:09
[UNKNOWN]: a character, a culture, conflicts, personalities, all of those things, and it's like, well, we're going to have to figure out at least some of those things to work properly in Captain America's Civil War.
23:21
[UNKNOWN]: There's talk of maybe the Hulk will be in it.
23:23
[UNKNOWN]: There's talk of maybe Thor will be in it.
23:27
[UNKNOWN]: And the movie is heading forward.
23:30
[UNKNOWN]: We've decided to do it.
23:31
[UNKNOWN]: There's some stuff I'm gonna leave out possibly someone who lives in Queens.
23:36
[UNKNOWN]: We might talk about a little bit later as we get into the film.
23:39
[UNKNOWN]: But they are moving forward tentatively, they have Iron Man slated to do it.
23:45
[UNKNOWN]: And they've essentially now written two different scripts.
23:47
[UNKNOWN]: There is a script with Iron Man in it.
23:50
[UNKNOWN]: And there is a script that does not have Iron Man in it.
23:52
[UNKNOWN]: And you go, what is the script that doesn't have Iron Man in it?
23:55
[UNKNOWN]: Because the whole central conflict will then, is it Bucky?
23:59
[UNKNOWN]: And then if it's not Bucky, and then what is it?
24:01
[UNKNOWN]: And as we're pushing this forward, FIGI and the Rousseau's are all pushing very hard.
24:06
[UNKNOWN]: Like, no, this has to be Tony Stark.
24:09
[UNKNOWN]: And they get called to, at this point, the politics, the business setup of the MCU.
24:15
[UNKNOWN]: The MCU is its own entity, it Disney does not yet exist.
24:20
[UNKNOWN]: Marvel is part of Disney, but it has its Marvel has its own separate board that meets in New York.
24:27
[UNKNOWN]: And then the film offices are in LA, but the film offices answer to the New York offices.
24:34
[UNKNOWN]: And they are not feeling it in terms of Iron Man and this whole civil war idea.
24:40
[UNKNOWN]: And so they fly the Russo's and Fige out to New York for a meeting.
24:48
[UNKNOWN]: We should, you know, you mentioned those super soldiers that are all frozen up in Siberia.
24:53
[UNKNOWN]: Why not have the big conflict that the Avengers have to fight those super soldiers?
24:57
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, that's everyone would want to see that.
25:00
[UNKNOWN]: Who wants to see a bunch of heroes fighting each other?
25:04
[UNKNOWN]: To which Fiky's response is everyone.
25:10
[UNKNOWN]: They argue and argue about this, and finally, they kind of say, well, we could compromise.
25:16
[UNKNOWN]: You can have your superheroes fighting each other, no Robert Denny Jr. Cut them out of the movie, we're just not going to do that.
25:24
[UNKNOWN]: And at that moment, both Feige and the Russo's from my understanding threaten to walk.
25:31
[UNKNOWN]: They go, you know what?
25:32
[UNKNOWN]: That's not the movie we want to make.
25:34
[UNKNOWN]: They go back to Disney.
25:37
[UNKNOWN]: And Bob Eiger looks at the situation and this is why the MCU gets fully split off.
25:43
[UNKNOWN]: Created as its own entity at Disney that no longer has to answer to be stupid guys at the New York office.
25:54
[UNKNOWN]: these guys who are in charge of comic books who say who wants to watch a bunch of heroes fight it's like look at
26:02
[UNKNOWN]: you got a file right there.
26:05
[UNKNOWN]: Open it up.
26:07
[UNKNOWN]: I also have to believe that, you know, Downey Jr.'s deal might have also affected some of this, because we know from the beginning, Arty J worked out a deal for himself that became a kind of an albatross around the necko marvel that eventually Disney, because he has paid more than everybody else.
26:27
[UNKNOWN]: And ironically,
26:29
[UNKNOWN]: You know, he was a guy who had to work his way back to Hollywood and be accepted in Hollywood.
26:33
[UNKNOWN]: And once he did though, once it blew up, and do you know that the MCU was on his back, he could demand more money.
26:40
[UNKNOWN]: And from what I understand, I think rumors have been like 50 million.
26:43
[UNKNOWN]: They had to pay him $50 million for every movie he was in, something like that.
26:47
[UNKNOWN]: And I know there's not many studios that would say yes to that.
26:51
[UNKNOWN]: And even they did it begrudgingly.
26:53
[UNKNOWN]: You know, so I'm sure that's an element of it as well.
26:55
[UNKNOWN]: Well, even from a storytelling perspective, like again, the Marvel comics suits in New York, I think their reasonings are stupid, the ones that we're talking about, but when you look at, you want to take our greatest hero that we've created for these films and you want to make them the antagonist.
27:14
[UNKNOWN]: like that's a that's a pretty big swing and if it misses if you don't connect that's not going to work and like can you do a version of civil war without Tony Stark maybe you you could maybe put to Chala in that Tony Stark role I know there were talks that like that's one of the reasons they brought Thunderbolt Ross like Thunderbolt Ross could maybe be on that other side but the emotional conflict between Tony and Steve
27:42
[UNKNOWN]: that you were then able to connect to Bucky, to Tony's parents.
27:47
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, the amount of emotional payoff that affected the whole trajectory of the MCU.
27:53
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, you know, God, God bless Feige and the Russo brothers, because had they given in or had Bob Iger said, okay, go ahead and walk.
28:03
[UNKNOWN]: We'll find somebody else.
28:05
[UNKNOWN]: Um, the MCU looks like it can completely different thing now.
28:08
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
28:09
[UNKNOWN]: I'll tell you a sign of how well the MCU was doing and how good I think this movie is.
28:15
[UNKNOWN]: Shannon, when you started talking, you said you can take the greatest hero we've created and turn him into the antagonist.
28:23
[UNKNOWN]: And as you said that, I did not know who you were talking about.
28:27
[UNKNOWN]: I wasn't sure if you were saying the greatest hero was Iron Man, who has become the antagonist or cap, because that describes both of them perfectly, both of them because the reality is
28:39
[UNKNOWN]: This isn't a Captain America movie.
28:41
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it is.
28:42
[UNKNOWN]: It's called Captain America, the Civil War.
28:44
[UNKNOWN]: But this is a movie, this is an ensemble movie with two central characters that we are both involved with.
28:52
[UNKNOWN]: And I can't tell you who the end.
28:53
[UNKNOWN]: They're both the antagonist and they're both the protagonist.
28:56
[UNKNOWN]: That's how I feel about the way the film is structured.
28:58
[UNKNOWN]: You know?
28:59
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
29:00
[UNKNOWN]: Great.
29:01
[UNKNOWN]: What's final thing though is the movie it's stated to start shooting on April 27th, 2015 by the way the codename for the film films like this always have codenames was Sputnik, which I think is very appropriate.
29:15
[UNKNOWN]: And one more little detail is one person who was like, okay, I'm ready to get my schedule.
29:20
[UNKNOWN]: When am I showing up?
29:22
[UNKNOWN]: Do I have a costume fitting coming up?
29:24
[UNKNOWN]: Was Samuel Al Jackson because the Russo said set the end.
29:28
[UNKNOWN]: and some point during winter soldier like see on cap 3 and never bothered to tell him that they hadn't cast them in there's no part for him in this movie.
29:42
[UNKNOWN]: I always think less is more with fury so I think it worked out for the best.
29:46
[UNKNOWN]: I think he would have ruined the film.
29:48
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, honestly, because if you put fury on, well, then it really becomes about which way is fury going to go, like he, because he is central to a threat.
29:57
[UNKNOWN]: Like there's so many dead.
29:58
[UNKNOWN]: He's dead.
29:58
[UNKNOWN]: He's dead.
29:59
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he's the dead.
30:00
[UNKNOWN]: The two brothers are fighting.
30:01
[UNKNOWN]: You can't have that choosing sides.
30:03
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, no.
30:03
[UNKNOWN]: Speaking of which, shall we get into the film and watch these two brothers in where they go?
30:09
[UNKNOWN]: Let's do it.
30:10
[UNKNOWN]: So we start off, and we're looking at this out of focus, gray image.
30:15
[UNKNOWN]: It's very bleak, and we realize we're pushing in towards this isolated snowy mountain top.
30:21
[UNKNOWN]: Over the sea, we see big titles that say 1991, they put these big titles in part of it was just to give the sense of kind of bookmarks that this is a new chapter, the sort of that each one kind of breaks the space of the previous one, which I agree with.
30:39
[UNKNOWN]: We come to these huge doors.
30:41
[UNKNOWN]: We see a Russian entericode.
30:43
[UNKNOWN]: We see the hydrosimble as he goes inside.
30:46
[UNKNOWN]: And then this red book with a star on it, that's a beautifully designed product.
30:52
[UNKNOWN]: Because once you see it, you're gonna remember this.
30:54
[UNKNOWN]: if you've paid attention to history class, you know what that red star means.
30:59
[UNKNOWN]: And I love the font Steve, the font to me and Shannon.
31:03
[UNKNOWN]: There's a large ass to the font that gives the film an importance.
31:07
[UNKNOWN]: And I think it was genius to use it this way.
31:10
[UNKNOWN]: Fons are so important.
31:11
[UNKNOWN]: Some of it who constantly does YouTube thumbnails, fonts are massively important and how you use them and
31:18
[UNKNOWN]: and apply them to capture people's eyes and to convey a certain thing.
31:22
[UNKNOWN]: And so I think the fonts that you throughout the whole movie for locations in the years are so important to give us a feeling of scope to this film.
31:29
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and even when that panel opens, and we see that logbook, the way it is, it is not lane flat, it's setting up right.
31:38
[UNKNOWN]: Like it's very much saying, this is something you need to be especially careful with.
31:43
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, like a museum piece almost, yeah, good point.
31:46
[UNKNOWN]: 100%.
31:47
[UNKNOWN]: And we see this, it's so funny that in Superhero and science fiction movies, everything has to be in a glass cylinder.
31:54
[UNKNOWN]: And it catches rise up, it has to like fill with smoke.
31:56
[UNKNOWN]: And like, everything has to outdo the previous thing.
31:59
[UNKNOWN]: All the design here is great.
32:01
[UNKNOWN]: We see Bucky, he's strapped into this thing in this device.
32:10
[UNKNOWN]: We hear these Russian words being spoken.
32:12
[UNKNOWN]: We don't know what they mean.
32:13
[UNKNOWN]: We see the translation in subtitles.
32:16
[UNKNOWN]: And this, of course, are the code words to activate the brainwashing of the winter soldier.
32:21
[UNKNOWN]: And this is the weird thing about writing sometimes.
32:23
[UNKNOWN]: Is they were looking for code words that sounded really cool in Russian and looked really cool in English.
32:31
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what we came up with, how we get to 17 daybreak furnace nine.
32:37
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and as these words hit, we see the words are almost like a physical assault on Bucky.
32:45
[UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah.
32:46
[UNKNOWN]: And in addition to that, he also has a thing around his head that is kind of scrambling his brain.
32:52
[UNKNOWN]: Basically, a racing whatever programming was in there before, so they can make room for these 10 words that are then basically going to reboot him.
33:03
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, this is the thing that's fascinating about this character of Bucky.
33:06
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, he is Captain America.
33:07
[UNKNOWN]: He has Steve Rogers's best friend.
33:09
[UNKNOWN]: And we saw in Winter Soldier how much Steve was willing to sacrifice for Bucky.
33:16
[UNKNOWN]: So you're telling this massive story with Steve and Bucky.
33:18
[UNKNOWN]: So you have to keep portray Bucky as a sympathetic figure.
33:22
[UNKNOWN]: And so you begin this way and this movie in this way.
33:25
[UNKNOWN]: And you, the first thing you hear from Bucky are these anguish.
33:30
[UNKNOWN]: horrible screams.
33:31
[UNKNOWN]: It is, yeah, you hear the words, but before the words, you hear Bucky's blood-curdling screams of utter torture that are going on, and that is removing his mind at how many times has he gone through this process, right?
33:46
[UNKNOWN]: So you have to build up sympathy for this character that is eventually going to be the thing that separates Tony and
33:55
[UNKNOWN]: you know, and I think having us feel for him considering what happened at the end of of winter soldier reminding us of the connection and the pain he's gone through is a very smart way to start and it also conveys that this is a movie of weight of heft and it is not your normal superhero comic book movie, you know.
34:13
[UNKNOWN]: I think there's so much in the sequence that is filled in in the course of the film that makes it increasingly more painful because to me part of what is happening he says later on to Zemo or I think it's a Zemo where they ask do you remember it and he says I remember all of it.
34:29
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, it's the top
34:30
[UNKNOWN]: Tell Tony is is and what that means is every one of these horrible murders and what it he probably tortured people he Who knows the the level of Depravity that he has been forced to do every one of those things lives clear and perfectly in his mind and as this process Which a looks incredibly physically painful
34:53
[UNKNOWN]: What's also happening is he knows that without any volition and without any choice, he is going to be forced once again to commit some horrible atrocity.
35:03
[UNKNOWN]: It's not like like watching the movie recently obsession.
35:06
[UNKNOWN]: What was so upsetting to me about that movie?
35:09
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, there were a lot of things upsetting.
35:10
[UNKNOWN]: But the most upsetting thing is that the f**k.
35:13
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
35:39
[UNKNOWN]: I will figure out, well, that will be edited in such a baby.
35:42
[UNKNOWN]: Some beeps will happen, but so needless to say, there is a thing that is very upsetting to me that I kept thinking about as I was watching the winter soldier.
35:51
[UNKNOWN]: And then this process says the last word, and Bucky becomes calm.
35:57
[UNKNOWN]: And he says in Russian, good morning, and in Russian, Bucky replies, ready to go out.
36:05
[UNKNOWN]: They say he has a mission for him, holds out a file.
36:08
[UNKNOWN]: sanction, extract, no witnesses, and then we cut to a car driving on a road.
36:15
[UNKNOWN]: We have no idea where this is, but we notice that the car is from, you know, some time a while ago, and Bucky sitting on a motorcycle turns on his headlight, chases the car, drives it off the road, circles it the cars on fire, and we cut to the trunk opening up.
36:32
[UNKNOWN]: And the thing about is we're going to return to this sequence many times.
36:35
[UNKNOWN]: And what we don't know at this top point, but we find out later, is that we skip some stuff.
36:41
[UNKNOWN]: Bucky didn't go right to the trunk.
36:43
[UNKNOWN]: And to John's point about this being a heftier film, being a, this is probably at this point.
36:49
[UNKNOWN]: This might be the darkest that the MCU has gone.
36:53
[UNKNOWN]: Even the way that shot is constructed as Bucky rides his bike, rides his motorcycle around that sedan and you see him stick his gun in there.
37:02
[UNKNOWN]: It's all done in kind of a wide shot that you see the flash of one shot and then the car immediately hits a tree.
37:09
[UNKNOWN]: And everything is so,
37:12
[UNKNOWN]: violence and so sudden, like, and it will go to demonstrate just like how quickly someone's life can change and especially for the character that is going to be affected by this the most.
37:25
[UNKNOWN]: And you know this Steve is an editor, right?
37:26
[UNKNOWN]: There is such a loss of sound in this sequence.
37:31
[UNKNOWN]: Like it is presented as stark as possible so that you're not caught up with this hole.
37:36
[UNKNOWN]: Don't, there's none of that.
37:38
[UNKNOWN]: It's just here the sounds of the car, the sounds of the motorcycle, the sounds of the wind pushing against the tires as it drives.
37:45
[UNKNOWN]: The quick sound of the bullet through the windshield, or through the side window and then the car hitting the tree.
37:53
[UNKNOWN]: It is so devoid of sound as minimal as possible so that you understand that this is a brutal moment.
38:01
[UNKNOWN]: We're back to Russia and all we hear is well done soldier.
38:07
[UNKNOWN]: And then we go into the MCU titles which I think are played.
38:11
[UNKNOWN]: differently, they have a different tone, the way Marvel manipulates the same sequence with different images, different tone, a kind of different feel to it.
38:21
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's very successful of this era at the MCU.
38:25
[UNKNOWN]: And then we cut two logos.
38:28
[UNKNOWN]: We see Wanda, emptying a sugar in the cup.
38:30
[UNKNOWN]: And then we hear Steve's voice coming from nowhere.
38:34
[UNKNOWN]: I we see.
38:36
[UNKNOWN]: standard beatcops, small station, quiet street, it's a good target.
38:43
[UNKNOWN]: And I think we realize very quickly that this is the team, as you said before, Shannon, that this is like the team of the Avengers regular operations and even a feeling of practicing and improving as they go, I think.
38:58
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I think what this sequence will demonstrate is at the conclusion of age of Ultron, we see quickly what this new team of Avengers is.
39:08
[UNKNOWN]: Like we see the vision, we see Wanda, we see War Machine, we see Falcon, and it's basically kind of Steven Natasha who are leading everything up.
39:19
[UNKNOWN]: You get the sense that maybe this is even Wanda's first mission out in the field.
39:23
[UNKNOWN]: because everyone else on that team, with the exception of the vision who was sort of an all-knowing AI, everyone else has previous military experience.
39:33
[UNKNOWN]: She was kind of like a professional protester.
39:39
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, she was like an insurgent almost for Hydra in Sikovia.
39:45
[UNKNOWN]: So the learning curve that she is going to
39:51
[UNKNOWN]: have that the others don't, they really paint the picture well, with those little bits of seasoning that we get in the action.
40:01
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's just key in terms of how this, and it's subtle too, like how this is going back and forth because they're sort of doing what you do when you're teaching someone is testing them.
40:13
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, what does that mean?
40:14
[UNKNOWN]: What is that going?
40:15
[UNKNOWN]: See that range over halfway up the block.
40:17
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they're at one.
40:18
[UNKNOWN]: It's cute.
40:19
[UNKNOWN]: And then we hear another voice.
40:22
[UNKNOWN]: It's also bulletproof, which means private security, which means more guns, which means more headaches for some of the problems.
40:28
[UNKNOWN]: And what's so great about the way they set this up is that it's another voice coming over coms, but we realize it's actually Natasha who is sitting one table away, also talking to herself.
40:39
[UNKNOWN]: And then we get into, and I think there is an era where the MCU, and I think this a lot of this is Mark Asimovkili, is just nailing
40:48
[UNKNOWN]: marvel banter like how do you keep all the characters alive and keep it fun and keep advancing the story they do it really well well and Natasha even has that line you have to get used to want us as something to the effect of you all know that I can move things with my mind and Natasha's like you need to get you need to get used to looking over your shoulder and so again that's when we get that feeling that okay Wanda Wanda is new to this
41:14
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they're taking her out on to the training, right?
41:17
[UNKNOWN]: Essentially, this is kind of like a training exercise to get her to understand what they're doing.
41:22
[UNKNOWN]: And this in their minds is kind of a low key one because it's just crossbones, right?
41:27
[UNKNOWN]: This isn't low key or some threat from outer space.
41:30
[UNKNOWN]: This is just crossbones.
41:32
[UNKNOWN]: And I think they'll be able to handle the situation.
41:35
[UNKNOWN]: And so this is a good thing to train her on so that she can be up to speed when they go on to bigger missions.
41:40
[UNKNOWN]: But of course, I think this banter is so much better than Ultron.
41:44
[UNKNOWN]: I know my two fellow geek buddies are trying to redeem that movie, but I think there are still issues with that movie.
41:50
[UNKNOWN]: And one of the big issues is the banter opening of Ultron is terrible.
41:54
[UNKNOWN]: It is a bad comedy.
41:56
[UNKNOWN]: And this is much more natural, much more authentic in how they're interacting.
42:01
[UNKNOWN]: And they tone down the need to make jokes.
42:04
[UNKNOWN]: It's more jokes within the actual conversation about what they're confronting.
42:09
[UNKNOWN]: And I kind of, and I love the banter much more here, also because I think Elizabeth Olsen's performance is one, to always brings the proper amount of dread and concern when she's doing anything.
42:24
[UNKNOWN]: And I love that about her.
42:26
[UNKNOWN]: She's such a necessary element to the Marvel universe going forward.
42:31
[UNKNOWN]: I think what Marcus and McFeely can do better in the writing is that they can have a clever statement.
42:37
[UNKNOWN]: I wouldn't even call it a joke, but they can have a clever observation without losing the weight of the stakes.
42:42
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
42:43
[UNKNOWN]: That's so important.
42:44
[UNKNOWN]: Joss Weedon, when he switches into joke mode, as the city is flying over Sikovia, as Hawkeye and Natasha are talking about how they're going to remodel Hawkeye's house.
42:56
[UNKNOWN]: It's like all this sucks.
42:58
[UNKNOWN]: this sucks.
42:59
[UNKNOWN]: Like, all these people's lives that are in danger right now have become backseat to not even a good joke.
43:06
[UNKNOWN]: Like, but a joke.
43:08
[UNKNOWN]: it's it's all the basic rules of writing, which is where are we?
43:11
[UNKNOWN]: What are the circumstances?
43:12
[UNKNOWN]: What is this character want?
43:14
[UNKNOWN]: Who are they?
43:15
[UNKNOWN]: What are their past experiences?
43:16
[UNKNOWN]: And if all of those things lead you to a funny line and you're still playing within all those rules, it's that's great.
43:24
[UNKNOWN]: And if you abandon, you know, four out of five of those things to make a good joke,
43:29
[UNKNOWN]: And that's all you got.
43:30
[UNKNOWN]: You just lost everything else.
43:32
[UNKNOWN]: And I think in particular, there's also the skill of understanding exactly what each actor is capable of, where their wheelhouse is, and what's funny for that particular character.
43:43
[UNKNOWN]: You guys know I can move things with my mind, right?
43:46
[UNKNOWN]: Looking over your shoulder means to become second-eater.
43:49
[UNKNOWN]: Anybody have a tell you you're a little paranoid?
43:52
[UNKNOWN]: to my face, why did you hear something?
43:54
[UNKNOWN]: Why did you hear something?
43:55
[UNKNOWN]: That's a perfect use of Sam and Nat, and understanding those characters, and how they can be funny.
44:02
[UNKNOWN]: And I think with I think with different direction, I may be with Weedon's direction, Scarlet Johansson would have hit that line a little harder, but because this is a tactical conversation that they're having, she was able to underplay it so beautifully, which actually made the laugh work better.
44:18
[UNKNOWN]: Sam.
44:18
[UNKNOWN]: See that garbage book?
44:20
[UNKNOWN]: Take it.
44:21
[UNKNOWN]: And Sam launches a new addition to the Avengers, which is Red Wing.
44:25
[UNKNOWN]: Who he loves.
44:29
[UNKNOWN]: Red Wing who in the comics is a bird because Falcon in the comics can communicate telepathically with birds.
44:38
[UNKNOWN]: I think they've gotten rid of that ability in the, you know, the last probably 50 to 20 years.
44:42
[UNKNOWN]: But, but this red wing for the adapting it for the MCU, making Red Wing a drone.
44:51
[UNKNOWN]: What a brilliant choice.
44:52
[UNKNOWN]: What I like about is that everyone else is joking but cap.
44:57
[UNKNOWN]: much more like just kind of struggling with things, clearly, and that's, I still connected, I think, to Bucky.
45:04
[UNKNOWN]: And so the fact that everyone is making their comments, it's Cap who's not doing that.
45:08
[UNKNOWN]: And Cap would have normally done that as he does if the beginning of age of Ultron.
45:11
[UNKNOWN]: He's much less carefree nowadays than he was at the beginning of the MCU.
45:17
[UNKNOWN]: and the red wing goes to check out the truck and we realize that it's both armed and overweight and they're not hitting the police.
45:23
[UNKNOWN]: This thing is a battering ram and suddenly things have gotten very, very serious because we see that where this garbage truck is heading is the institute for infectious diseases.
45:34
[UNKNOWN]: And I think particularly today, post-bandemic and plague and Russia, I don't like seeing attacks on institutes of infectious diseases.
45:43
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's bad.
45:46
[UNKNOWN]: Driver jumps out.
45:47
[UNKNOWN]: The garbage trucks slams into this barrier.
45:50
[UNKNOWN]: It's all handled great.
45:51
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, this looks amazing.
45:52
[UNKNOWN]: There's echoes, of course, of the dark night moment with, you know, the big truck flip, I think.
45:57
[UNKNOWN]: And then trucks immediately fly into this compound soldiers get out.
46:01
[UNKNOWN]: They've got mass on their firing guns, crossbones is there.
46:04
[UNKNOWN]: The music is dramatic.
46:05
[UNKNOWN]: They fire gas canisters into this building spread out.
46:09
[UNKNOWN]: And then we hear what sounds like a jet coming, but is in fact red wing, swooping down with cap hanging on drops or bad guys.
46:20
[UNKNOWN]: Lands kicks a dude into a truck, we get some shield, you know, ricochets, flying around, didn't catch his, and caps his body armor, AR-15's.
46:30
[UNKNOWN]: I make seven hostile.
46:31
[UNKNOWN]: And then Falcon comes in and takes out some guys and says,
46:34
[UNKNOWN]: I make five.
46:35
[UNKNOWN]: Wanda comes in, lands behind him, sends another guy finding, and Sam says, four.
46:41
[UNKNOWN]: The action choreography is so good in this scene.
46:46
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, watching one, you know, in an Avengers movie because there are so many players to serve,
46:53
[UNKNOWN]: you forget what a badass cap actually is.
46:56
[UNKNOWN]: But as he kicks the front of a truck to take out a guy as he's flinging his shield here and there, Sam using his wings, not just to fly, but also as covered, to block bullets.
47:07
[UNKNOWN]: And want to kind of hovering in being able to levitate a guy where Sam can then come in and deliver a close line.
47:15
[UNKNOWN]: Again, it's just so well choreographed.
47:21
[UNKNOWN]: I was going to say this a little bit later, but I 100% agree and I think that I've kind of stumbled through research and even for Captain America Civil War, you know, onto one of the other reasons that the MCU is not knocking it out of the park nearly so often as they used to is.
47:38
[UNKNOWN]: All of us spend all of our time really focusing on the top, like we focus on of Fige's kind of lost his edge.
47:45
[UNKNOWN]: He's not as sure as he's used to, he's not making his good decisions.
47:48
[UNKNOWN]: The directors, they're hiring aren't as good, the actors aren't as good, or the screenwriter's aren't as good.
47:53
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm not saying none of those things are true.
47:56
[UNKNOWN]: But I agree with you.
47:57
[UNKNOWN]: I was watching this and going, man, particularly in this sequence.
48:01
[UNKNOWN]: And I texted John at one point of like, I'd forgotten what it's like to build the play by play when we're prepping for a Marvel action movie because I'm writing down so much stuff because I agree with you Shannon, every single moment there's interesting, exciting, beautifully, execute, execute, and action sequence.
48:18
[UNKNOWN]: And I was looking at I was like,
48:20
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so Sam Hardgrave, he's the stunt coordinator and the fight coordinator.
48:23
[UNKNOWN]: He started as Chris Evans's body double doing all the fight scenes in first Avengers and then by winter soldier, he had taken over more and more and he's working with James Young, who co-designed all these fight scenes with Hardgrove, also worked on winter soldier and civil war.
48:38
[UNKNOWN]: He's a big part of designing the bucky side of the fighting because they always wanted each fighter.
48:44
[UNKNOWN]: to fight in a different style.
48:45
[UNKNOWN]: So he created that.
48:47
[UNKNOWN]: We've got Chris Chatteski and David Leach.
48:50
[UNKNOWN]: There the guys behind John Wick.
48:52
[UNKNOWN]: They came on after doing, I think, the first John Wick in terms of fight choreography.
48:57
[UNKNOWN]: You've got the second unit director, Spiel Razzos.
49:00
[UNKNOWN]: He came off of fast and furious movies.
49:02
[UNKNOWN]: So he's a major car guy.
49:04
[UNKNOWN]: And you've got, I just lost your name, wait, hold on.
49:08
[UNKNOWN]: Heidi, money maker.
49:09
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
49:11
[UNKNOWN]: And you've got Heidi Moneymaker, who is the astounding body double for Black Widow, and she, you know, did all those crazy throws where Black Widow leaps on some dudes, Ed flips and spins around and throws them or kicks them all that stuff.
49:24
[UNKNOWN]: That's Heidi Moneymaker.
49:26
[UNKNOWN]: All of those people worked on a whole bunch of Marvel movies from first, first Avenger, all the way through endgame.
49:33
[UNKNOWN]: and then all of them left to do their own projects.
49:36
[UNKNOWN]: So Sam Hardgrave went off to do extraction one and two in the gorge, James Young went off to do other stuff.
49:43
[UNKNOWN]: The John Wick team went back to John Wick, all of these people left the MCU.
49:49
[UNKNOWN]: And so I actually think like there's, you know, it's like you think about okay the team has the championship here and then everybody salary goes up and then everyone comes a free agent and they're all off well this isn't the same team anymore even if Kevin Feige is on top we are not looking at actually there are a whole bunch of people that made these movies amazing and those people went on to other things.
50:10
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you talk about championship teams.
50:12
[UNKNOWN]: That's why it's always hard to become a dynasty, because there are so many other teams who will take your blueprint, try to hire way your best coaches or best players try to lure them away and you can't keep them together.
50:27
[UNKNOWN]: The 1985 Bears are a legend for that.
50:30
[UNKNOWN]: The Chicago team looked like a juggernaut that was gonna rule for a decade and they only won one Super Bowl and they were done by 1987.
50:37
[UNKNOWN]: And they were so dominant, 85, that people thought for sure, but that's how it is, right?
50:42
[UNKNOWN]: Coaches get hired away.
50:43
[UNKNOWN]: Egos get involved.
50:44
[UNKNOWN]: They want to do more.
50:46
[UNKNOWN]: It's the same thing here.
50:46
[UNKNOWN]: They want to do more.
50:47
[UNKNOWN]: They want to try themselves out.
50:49
[UNKNOWN]: David Leach became a director.
50:50
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it's just all the stuff happens.
50:52
[UNKNOWN]: That's why that book is so interesting to read the MCU book because you realize when you finish that book.
50:57
[UNKNOWN]: how many things had to line up just perfectly.
51:02
[UNKNOWN]: How many talented people who had to slide into these positions to make this all work as effectively as it did in the end.
51:11
[UNKNOWN]: And so Marvel's still trying to capture that magic, but the truth is it might not ever be captured again, and this will always be just a wonderful golden age that we had.
51:21
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and also from a budgetary standpoint, like you have a thing that makes a lot of money.
51:26
[UNKNOWN]: And companies like, we want to do that again, can we do it cheaper?
51:31
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
51:32
[UNKNOWN]: And the people that made it, like, you know, the folks are going off to do their own things.
51:36
[UNKNOWN]: Of course, you know, like with Sam Hargraves, like he wants to go, can I go and direct a movie?
51:41
[UNKNOWN]: Could you get him back?
51:43
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you could.
51:44
[UNKNOWN]: You got to pay him, everyone is going to become more expensive.
51:47
[UNKNOWN]: So it's like the, the,
51:50
[UNKNOWN]: It's sort of like the snake eating his tail.
51:52
[UNKNOWN]: It's like we want something even more successful and we want to pay less for it.
51:57
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, it's unfortunate.
52:00
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and this is why I don't have that much faith that dooms day could somehow bring Marvel back because to me they're in a much less good position now than they were before infinity war and end game and they don't have this team like they haven't, you know, I'm worried about it.
52:23
[UNKNOWN]: But I mean, it may, but these films could end up being good, but that does not mean Marvel is back.
52:30
[UNKNOWN]: It's just that you brought in the old legends to give you a couple of more great films, but it doesn't mean the X-Men's gonna be great.
52:37
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't mean what you're spinning off into the mutant saga is gonna be good because you said Steve, the team that was there for these phases is not there anymore.
52:46
[UNKNOWN]: And there's no guarantee that the team they have going into these new phases is gonna do any better than these last two clunky phases.
52:53
[UNKNOWN]: Rumblo's on the third floor.
52:55
[UNKNOWN]: Wanda, just like we practice.
52:57
[UNKNOWN]: What about the guys?
52:58
[UNKNOWN]: Get it out.
52:58
[UNKNOWN]: This is the team running really well.
53:01
[UNKNOWN]: They're training, they have their jobs.
53:03
[UNKNOWN]: Unfortunately, they're not doing that well, because crossbones, it's punching through this glass door with his like ex-go skeleton fist into the lab.
53:11
[UNKNOWN]: Opens up a safe, there's the biohazard.
53:14
[UNKNOWN]: I don't like this at all.
53:17
[UNKNOWN]: We're back with Cap again, there's a fantastic shield bounce watching Cap throw his shield and have it ricochet around and then you can catch it and all the things that they come up to do with it is so great and sof and honestly there's nothing yes Cap does throw his shield in the comics that's gone on for 50, 70 years probably, but not it never feels in the comic book that's static
53:44
[UNKNOWN]: the way it is in the movies.
53:46
[UNKNOWN]: The movie cap shield stuff is the best and I will just say and I will make a few comments like this that will probably rotate people as we go along throughout the film, but the physics of cap shield are so ridiculously stupid.
53:59
[UNKNOWN]: And I love it.
54:00
[UNKNOWN]: It's not, I'm not saying don't do it.
54:02
[UNKNOWN]: Do all the shield bouncing you can.
54:04
[UNKNOWN]: But just to point out, Howard Stark, you know, when we get the shield, tells him like, vibranium is amazing.
54:11
[UNKNOWN]: It completely absorbs all vibration, which is why you can take a shot from Molinar on the shield and it holds up because it absorbs vibration.
54:20
[UNKNOWN]: Something that absorbs vibration by definition cannot bounce.
54:24
[UNKNOWN]: But it's so, so scapeshield displays total absorption of vibration when it's getting hit by things, and is a super ball when you throw it.
54:36
[UNKNOWN]: That makes it, but it's awesome.
54:38
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm saying, keep it, that don't ever change.
54:41
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just saying that makes no sense.
54:42
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and there is a certain teenager from Queens who literally says what you just said.
54:47
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
54:48
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, sure.
54:48
[UNKNOWN]: That's a good point.
54:49
[UNKNOWN]: That's true.
54:51
[UNKNOWN]: And, you know, here's the mums he talked about.
54:52
[UNKNOWN]: Sam and a gun battle hides behind his wings and then uses his risk controller to blow some people up all super cool.
55:01
[UNKNOWN]: Now we're chasing down Romolo because we know he has a biological weapon.
55:04
[UNKNOWN]: Natasha rides up on her bike.
55:07
[UNKNOWN]: Crashes the bike to take it to do it out.
55:17
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and I'm not going to describe every little technique although I've written a ton of them down because we don't have time.
55:23
[UNKNOWN]: But she's taking out another guy and then cross bones grabs her.
55:27
[UNKNOWN]: She tries to fight and we see what a good fighter she is.
55:30
[UNKNOWN]: But despite making a bunch of hits, it's obvious she's not doing any damage.
55:35
[UNKNOWN]: He gets her by the hair.
55:36
[UNKNOWN]: She tries shocking him and he just shakes off the shot.
55:40
[UNKNOWN]: I don't work like that, no more.
55:42
[UNKNOWN]: And then he throws her into this armored vehicle, tosses a grenade in after, closes the hatch, and just like, well, Natasha is clearly dead.
55:52
[UNKNOWN]: But she managed to get a guy between her and the explosion, which blows her out of this armored vehicle.
55:59
[UNKNOWN]: And again, I will say,
56:00
[UNKNOWN]: No, she'd be dead, but she didn't close space with a hand grenade, but okay, so it's fine.
56:06
[UNKNOWN]: She coughed a lot when she hit the ground.
56:08
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, she coughed a lot.
56:11
[UNKNOWN]: Cap is running on the roof crossbow hits him with like an RPG.
56:15
[UNKNOWN]: He gets blown out of this building brutal fall down many stories He hits the ground has to drag himself to his feet How many times in the MCU has Cap had to get up after some beating because he could do this all day I have no idea, but it's a very very high number and Chris Evans has mastered this particular acting
56:37
[UNKNOWN]: it would it would take less time to count how many times he doesn't get up.
56:40
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
56:41
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
56:42
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
56:43
[UNKNOWN]: So, so, Crospo's reached his men.
56:45
[UNKNOWN]: He hands the bio-weapon off of someone.
56:47
[UNKNOWN]: Take this to the estrogen.
56:49
[UNKNOWN]: We're not going to want to run, lose the truck.
56:51
[UNKNOWN]: Where are you going to meet us?
56:52
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not.
56:53
[UNKNOWN]: Now, I don't know if I'm not just means it's a cool line, but is he saying, no, I'm probably going to die or is he saying just you're on your own?
57:04
[UNKNOWN]: Oh no, I think he's saying he's going to die.
57:07
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
57:07
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, I think he's saying, you know, you guys are on your own.
57:11
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to handle some business.
57:13
[UNKNOWN]: And we'll see where I end up.
57:15
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but I think he's because he's armored himself to defeat cap.
57:19
[UNKNOWN]: Like he says in just a few minutes, I've been waiting for this.
57:22
[UNKNOWN]: I've been waiting for this day or whatever.
57:24
[UNKNOWN]: So I think he's ready to go.
57:26
[UNKNOWN]: So that mercenary that he talks to that is an actor and a stunt man who's an old friend of mine named Damian, Claudia.
57:33
[UNKNOWN]: He was also the live action Thanos and the post-credits sequence of Avengers.
57:39
[UNKNOWN]: Hey, nice.
57:41
[UNKNOWN]: So he has a history of, he has a history of working with Marvel.
57:44
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, like that.
57:46
[UNKNOWN]: He was our first Thanos before he preceded Josh Berlin.
57:51
[UNKNOWN]: So I assume he still gets royalties on everything Broland does, because he created the character, obviously.
57:56
[UNKNOWN]: You know what?
57:57
[UNKNOWN]: I haven't spoken to him in a while.
57:59
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if that's how I want to lead the conversation.
58:04
[UNKNOWN]: And then Sam and Natasha split up to head after, because they're trying to figure out who has the bio weapon.
58:10
[UNKNOWN]: And then Natasha is writing a motorcycle by standing on it.
58:14
[UNKNOWN]: And then the transition as she crashes essentially the motorcycle into a car.
58:18
[UNKNOWN]: And then runs just off onto the car's roof.
58:20
[UNKNOWN]: it's one of those.
58:22
[UNKNOWN]: It's why I always love Jackie Chan movies.
58:24
[UNKNOWN]: It's these moments of delight.
58:26
[UNKNOWN]: It's just it happens very fast and yeah, there were she didn't she could just write up on the motorcycle and jump on the car as any normal person would do.
58:35
[UNKNOWN]: But they went, we can come up with a way that's cooler and this is cooler.
58:39
[UNKNOWN]: And she needed them because I mean, of course, coming out of Avengers, the running narrative was like,
58:46
[UNKNOWN]: what is her point on the team, just like with Hawkeye, they're fighting aliens in all these kinds of people with powers, gods, wise Natasha on the team.
58:55
[UNKNOWN]: So I think those moves to make her be much more of a ruthless fighter were on purpose to kind of answer that criticism as well, because it it works, because I think she's great carrying off those scenes along with the stunt woman who is playing who is doing those fight sequences, you know.
59:12
[UNKNOWN]: I think the combo of Winter Soldier and Civil War makes you appreciate Black Widow in all of these ways that we didn't get before.
59:22
[UNKNOWN]: And I mean much more than physical.
59:25
[UNKNOWN]: I mean like just her character and who she is, her relationship with all these people.
59:29
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I think Feige made a point of that because Pearl Moodle was the one who like put the Kabash on having a Black Widow doll on including Black Widow in the sets, like it was Feige who fought to make her a bigger part of the MCU, so that she would be seen as an essential part of the MCU and Natasha.
59:46
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, Scarlet Johansson has had a very interesting journey with Marvel.
59:49
[UNKNOWN]: And in the end, got the last laugh with what happened with Black Widow and stuff,
59:53
[UNKNOWN]: And the movie, you know, she got, she got paid.
59:56
[UNKNOWN]: And I think rightfully so, because I think she was screwed over in the initial stages of the MCU.
1:00:03
[UNKNOWN]: Cap does an entirely unnecessary role.
1:00:05
[UNKNOWN]: There are also many of those as movie.
1:00:08
[UNKNOWN]: But it's a good role.
1:00:09
[UNKNOWN]: And then his shield gets hit like with a grenade that attaches to his shield.
1:00:14
[UNKNOWN]: He tosses it and explodes and then fears crossbones who hits Cap with one of his, you know, whenever a super powered fist.
1:00:25
[UNKNOWN]: I've been waiting for that.
1:00:28
[UNKNOWN]: Falcon takes out a guy with a flying spinning kick, but he doesn't have the thing we're looking for.
1:00:34
[UNKNOWN]: Natasha, par quarters for way through a crowd.
1:00:38
[UNKNOWN]: All very cool tackles a guy disarms him.
1:00:40
[UNKNOWN]: Heidi Monkmaker does a two-person classic black widow move.
1:00:45
[UNKNOWN]: I would love to be in the training session as you're trying to figure out how to do one of these.
1:00:51
[UNKNOWN]: like, what?
1:00:52
[UNKNOWN]: Because you can't go in, you know, like, you have to kind of work through the steps, but then you kind of really have to go for it.
1:00:57
[UNKNOWN]: You can't have to go for it to pull one of these things off.
1:01:00
[UNKNOWN]: I would love to look at that.
1:01:01
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and just you be in a martial artist, Steve.
1:01:04
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah.
1:01:05
[UNKNOWN]: That move of like, you know, scissor in a guy's head and then twist and in, like, in a real fight, I think that the guy probably isn't going to go with your,
1:01:14
[UNKNOWN]: go with the direction that the the the scissor is is twirling them.
1:01:18
[UNKNOWN]: So it feels like this is this is a choreography that both sides have to be have to be complicit.
1:01:25
[UNKNOWN]: There was the lamest probably 38 steps below Heidi Moneymaker take down that I once learned, which was sort of you look like you're throwing a spinning kick, but you actually faint with the spinning kick, keep the spin going, slide one leg behind the person and as you spin
1:01:44
[UNKNOWN]: You got a scissor and your lower leg takes out the legs where your upper leg is out the upper body and you take them out that way.
1:01:50
[UNKNOWN]: And when I figured it out, like it was really, you know, I was 23, you know, and so I could do this.
1:01:55
[UNKNOWN]: That is so much easier than, I mean, like it's not even in the same planet that the same universe as what she's doing and I think that took me six months to learn how to do it.
1:02:07
[UNKNOWN]: You know, wow.
1:02:09
[UNKNOWN]: Um, anyway, um, then we end up in like a classic standoff where this, the bad guys holding the vial of the bio weapon.
1:02:17
[UNKNOWN]: He's threatening to drop it.
1:02:19
[UNKNOWN]: Um, Sh, Natasha has a gun on him.
1:02:23
[UNKNOWN]: It's a standoff and then red wing comes in shoots the guy.
1:02:26
[UNKNOWN]: Natasha takes him out, catches the vial.
1:02:30
[UNKNOWN]: Hey, Lord, it's a cure.
1:02:31
[UNKNOWN]: Thanks, Jim.
1:02:32
[UNKNOWN]: Don't thank me.
1:02:33
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not thinking that thing.
1:02:35
[UNKNOWN]: His name is Red Wing.
1:02:36
[UNKNOWN]: He's still not thanking her.
1:02:37
[UNKNOWN]: He's cute, but I'm better.
1:02:39
[UNKNOWN]: I love that he is.
1:02:41
[UNKNOWN]: That he is treating this as if it is a real bird that he loves.
1:02:46
[UNKNOWN]: There is a charm that Sam has when he, when he's not bearing the weight of being the lead.
1:02:54
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I thought Anthony Mackie was so intriguing and charming in winter soldier as well silver war, you see just what a good guy he is.
1:03:04
[UNKNOWN]: And you get, you get some of it in Falcon and winter soldier, but I think by the time we get to his Captain America movie, like the train is just
1:03:14
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I agree with you, man.
1:03:15
[UNKNOWN]: Watching them, their chemistry again is so good.
1:03:18
[UNKNOWN]: They're just so good with each other.
1:03:20
[UNKNOWN]: Evans and Mackie play off each other so well, because although Evans is the Alpha in that relationship, it never is overtly the Alpha in that relationship.
1:03:31
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that's the service they did to Sam, because Danny Ramirez can't hold a candle to a tent in terms of attention to what Anthony Mackie does.
1:03:41
[UNKNOWN]: And so that undercuts him.
1:03:43
[UNKNOWN]: So seeing them together just made me like long for Evans as Cap, and I wish he had never left the MCU, and I understand why he did it.
1:03:50
[UNKNOWN]: But like,
1:03:51
[UNKNOWN]: keeping him and Sam together.
1:03:53
[UNKNOWN]: That was the gold.
1:03:54
[UNKNOWN]: That was gold.
1:03:55
[UNKNOWN]: They should have kept it that way for a lot, a lot more longer if they could have, you know.
1:03:58
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and Mackie and Sebastian Stan.
1:04:01
[UNKNOWN]: Got the great chemistry.
1:04:03
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, great chemistry.
1:04:04
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I think it's, I think it was it kind of is the Danny, Danny Ramirez issue and that's not the same as his fault as an actor.
1:04:11
[UNKNOWN]: That is just the material doesn't support an interesting relationship.
1:04:17
[UNKNOWN]: I just think they lost his character.
1:04:19
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think they knew who Sam was.
1:04:21
[UNKNOWN]: I think in Wester Soldier in Civil War, it is 100% clear who this guy is, what he wants, what his values are, what is sense of humorous, what he cares about, and by the time we get to Falcon and Wester Soldier, it feels like his character is serving a purpose and a plot.
1:04:35
[UNKNOWN]: and doesn't have his own identity.
1:04:37
[UNKNOWN]: That's how those feel to me.
1:04:38
[UNKNOWN]: Back to Sam and Crossbones, and it's so funny because it's a very satisfying fight, I think, because Romolo has kind of built up this moment in his mind, like, I am gonna kick Cassass.
1:04:51
[UNKNOWN]: And you really, for a moment, thinks he's gonna do it.
1:04:54
[UNKNOWN]: He's got these powerful exoskeleton things and drives cap back.
1:05:00
[UNKNOWN]: This is for dropping a building on my face.
1:05:02
[UNKNOWN]: Big spike comes out of this thing, and it goes to stab Cap, who blocks it.
1:05:08
[UNKNOWN]: This arms it rips that thing off his hands.
1:05:12
[UNKNOWN]: So now he's down to one fist, sends him back, and this is like what you see is yes.
1:05:17
[UNKNOWN]: He did get a momentary advantage on Cap.
1:05:20
[UNKNOWN]: No, he is not in Cap's league, even with all these things.
1:05:24
[UNKNOWN]: Cap basically takes him apart.
1:05:27
[UNKNOWN]: He gets up with his mask off, we see his face is totally melted.
1:05:31
[UNKNOWN]: I think I look pretty good on things considered.
1:05:33
[UNKNOWN]: Who's your buyer?
1:05:34
[UNKNOWN]: You know a new year.
1:05:36
[UNKNOWN]: Ah, you're buddy, you're fucking.
1:05:38
[UNKNOWN]: You're, I mean, this to me comes out of the, you're like, what?
1:05:41
[UNKNOWN]: What is he talking about?
1:05:42
[UNKNOWN]: And so I have a moment of confusion the way that Steve does.
1:05:47
[UNKNOWN]: All of this is a setup for what's guess.
1:05:49
[UNKNOWN]: Right?
1:05:49
[UNKNOWN]: You, the ramifications and the consequences of their actions, even the opening, the casual banter and humor within what we're doing here.
1:05:59
[UNKNOWN]: In all ends, the second Romolo explodes, which we're about to get to, and wander sends it through, and people die.
1:06:08
[UNKNOWN]: Like this is what this whole thing is foreshading with the film is going to be all about.
1:06:12
[UNKNOWN]: The Avengers dealing with the repercussions and consequences of their actions, which they conveniently shut themselves away from, now is going to be in their faces, and they have to deal with it.
1:06:27
[UNKNOWN]: is a very stark beginning of what is going to be a predominant theme throughout the movie.
1:06:33
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I mean, this is, I agree that there are all sorts of collateral damage that are caused by all of these action movies.
1:06:44
[UNKNOWN]: And they, and this movie is about dealing with some of those things.
1:06:47
[UNKNOWN]: What did you say?
1:06:48
[UNKNOWN]: He remembered you.
1:06:50
[UNKNOWN]: I was there.
1:06:51
[UNKNOWN]: He got a weepy about it.
1:06:54
[UNKNOWN]: until he put his brain back in a blender.
1:06:56
[UNKNOWN]: That punch that he lands verbally damages Cap more than either of those jacked up punches he landed on.
1:07:05
[UNKNOWN]: Cap before this moment, you know, because you can see that that's the one, that's a yard, that's the soft spot on Steve.
1:07:12
[UNKNOWN]: And him casually saying how Bucky was crying for him and put him in a blender and all of this stuff, he is hitting him with much bigger punches verbally than he did physically, you know.
1:07:23
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and as far as Crossbones knows, like the fight is over.
1:07:27
[UNKNOWN]: Like the fight is done.
1:07:28
[UNKNOWN]: Like I am disarmed.
1:07:30
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I lost.
1:07:32
[UNKNOWN]: Cap doesn't know that I have a suicide vest on.
1:07:36
[UNKNOWN]: So what I'm going to do is make sure that he is off balance enough that I can deliver, I can save this thing.
1:07:42
[UNKNOWN]: That is going to make him hesitate.
1:07:44
[UNKNOWN]: Then I can activate the suicide bomb because I'm going to die, but I'm taking you with me.
1:07:51
[UNKNOWN]: I guess what you answered asked quite earlier Steve.
1:07:53
[UNKNOWN]: I guess I was wrong.
1:07:54
[UNKNOWN]: Like yeah, he is saying I'm not meeting up with you guys because I am gonna blow cap up and myself So I guess he was you want to get to know something He said to me, please tell Rajas When you gotta go
1:08:12
[UNKNOWN]: As you said, Shannon, in this moment of distraction, he's gotten to his self-destruct button, pushes this button, and we're like, holy shit, like there is no time for cap to get away.
1:08:21
[UNKNOWN]: In that holy shit moment, this red energy surrounds Rummelow and contains the explosion, and we see that it is Wanda that has saved Cap's life.
1:08:32
[UNKNOWN]: I'm reminded of, we're not going to make it, are we?
1:08:35
[UNKNOWN]: And then Spock comes in and saves the ship, so yeah.
1:08:38
[UNKNOWN]: And just like in that moment, there is a tragedy associated with it, because Wanda can't contain this explosion, tries to throw it up, and explodes just above them, destroying a large part of the building.
1:08:50
[UNKNOWN]: She immediately noticed what she's done, cap is emotional, still the leader says,
1:09:07
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this is the opening of the movie and the fact that it started sort of as ordinary business training session, but the team is working now and ends in this moment of shock and tragedy very suddenly.
1:09:24
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I agree.
1:09:24
[UNKNOWN]: That's great opening.
1:09:25
[UNKNOWN]: And this is a shot of caps leadership.
1:09:27
[UNKNOWN]: Why did you bring a green?
1:09:30
[UNKNOWN]: Warrior out into this team exercise against someone this brutal.
1:09:35
[UNKNOWN]: You thought it was going to be an easier exercise and it ended up blowing up in your face.
1:09:40
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, when you look at the other folks who are Avengers, like you've got the vision and war machine.
1:09:45
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and you brought a kid.
1:09:48
[UNKNOWN]: You brought a kid who still is learning how to use her powers, right?
1:09:51
[UNKNOWN]: And this is the beginning of a lot of weight that one is going to carry, like already seeing her brother being killed in
1:10:02
[UNKNOWN]: Ultron, there is the sense of guilt, and then what happens here, you add that guilt on, then she's being kept, then the civil war happens, and of course, we, you know, visions of ends up dying in endgame and, I'm sorry, Infinity War, and so we see what that leads to with vision.
1:10:16
[UNKNOWN]: So we're dealing with all the ramifications still in the MCU of what Wanda experiences at the beginning of this journey being part of the Avengers.
1:10:25
[UNKNOWN]: It's not just that Wanda is untrained or Wanda is a kid.
1:10:28
[UNKNOWN]: Although she is and I totally agree with those points, it's that Wanda has powers that are beyond anything we understand.
1:10:37
[UNKNOWN]: Wanda does not understand her powers.
1:10:38
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
1:10:39
[UNKNOWN]: She doesn't understand the limitations of her powers.
1:10:41
[UNKNOWN]: We do not understand her powers or the limitations.
1:10:44
[UNKNOWN]: Cap doesn't want to cannot entirely control her powers.
1:10:48
[UNKNOWN]: And she is not the only one who has God-like powers and limited control, Hulk obviously being one.
1:10:55
[UNKNOWN]: And vision who seems to have excellent control, we have no idea what he is or what he's doing or how his brain works or the limitations of his powers.
1:11:04
[UNKNOWN]: It's almost like imagine if some society were to create, I don't know, some super intelligent,
1:11:12
[UNKNOWN]: And imagine if that society didn't fully understand that technology, and people creating that technology said, look, this technology has a chance to destroy the world.
1:11:22
[UNKNOWN]: And imagine if they just said, yeah, let's just keep doing it.
1:11:25
[UNKNOWN]: Like eventually something really bad might happen.
1:11:30
[UNKNOWN]: What is one does line when she's sitting in the cafe?
1:11:32
[UNKNOWN]: Like, do you know I have powers, right?
1:11:34
[UNKNOWN]: Is that what she says?
1:11:35
[UNKNOWN]: I can move things with my mind.
1:11:36
[UNKNOWN]: I can move things with my mind.
1:11:38
[UNKNOWN]: I can move things with my mind.
1:11:39
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I can move things.
1:11:41
[UNKNOWN]: that she can move things with her mind.
1:11:43
[UNKNOWN]: No, a cocky, I mean, you know, young cocky, right?
1:11:45
[UNKNOWN]: Young people are cocky.
1:11:46
[UNKNOWN]: They're pretty much, it's part of being young.
1:11:48
[UNKNOWN]: And so in that moment is the wake-up call for her.
1:11:51
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you can move things with your mind, but look how much you lose control or can't control your powers in a certain moment to keep people from dying.
1:12:00
[UNKNOWN]: you know, so it's like a wake-up call for her as well, which I think is bad.
1:12:03
[UNKNOWN]: And then we cut to this woman singing and we're going, what is this?
1:12:10
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, what we realized, this is Hope Davis who's playing Tony's mom and she's sitting at the piano and these kind of lush setting in walks John Slattery as Howard Stark and we're like, what the heck is going on here?
1:12:26
[UNKNOWN]: And I love that she's playing.
1:12:28
[UNKNOWN]: I love that these two people are playing Tony's parents and they're literally two or three years older than Robert Downey Jr. Like it is just hilarious.
1:12:38
[UNKNOWN]: You know, Hope Davis, I think it's 62, R.D.J.
1:12:41
[UNKNOWN]: 61, Slattery is 64 currently.
1:12:43
[UNKNOWN]: So like it's just funny to see them playing her.
1:12:46
[UNKNOWN]: Is they all, I mean they all came through the 80s films.
1:12:49
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:12:50
[UNKNOWN]: You know, Hope Davis was a big deal to a degree in the 80s and 90s in the independence.
1:12:56
[UNKNOWN]: wake up dear and say goodbye to your father who's the homeless person on the couch and I remember being in the theater at this moment.
1:13:02
[UNKNOWN]: Yes going like like what's going I don't understand what's going on exactly here and then and a blanket moves up rises.
1:13:11
[UNKNOWN]: Tony Stark except it's Tony Stark like you would see him in a John Hughes movie in the middle of the 80s.
1:13:18
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:13:18
[UNKNOWN]: It is young Robert Downey Jr. Every time I see it, it's still a mind fuck man.
1:13:24
[UNKNOWN]: It looks just like he did in the 80s.
1:13:27
[UNKNOWN]: Well, they had done it before, like they did use it in Ant-Man, for the opening with Michael Douglas.
1:13:35
[UNKNOWN]: But he did so compared to what they ended up doing for Civil War.
1:13:40
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, and a lot of the credit, obviously the visual effects artists are incredible.
1:13:45
[UNKNOWN]: But a lot of the credit also has to go to RDJ because I don't know if they technically pitched his voice up.
1:13:51
[UNKNOWN]: but his voice is different.
1:13:53
[UNKNOWN]: It is one of the reasons, like with Andy and Jones and the dialadestine that that opening does not work is because Harrison's Ford's voice is 80 year old Harrison Ford.
1:14:02
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:14:03
[UNKNOWN]: And so again, maybe it was technically done, but his voice is a little bit higher.
1:14:08
[UNKNOWN]: It does sound like he sounded like when he was in weird science.
1:14:11
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry, also, I also say it's because there's less wrinkles on Ronnie J. then there are on Michael Douglas, when you're a child fiber, when you're trying to do it, which I guess is later, when you're trying to do that kind of de-aging stuff, it works just a little bit easier.
1:14:25
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:14:25
[UNKNOWN]: I also think there's something very different about going from 75 years old to 45.
1:14:31
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
1:14:32
[UNKNOWN]: And going from 50 year old to 19 or 20.
1:14:35
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it's just, it's just, and part of it too, I think, is that it's the posture of Robert Downey Jr. You know what I mean?
1:14:42
[UNKNOWN]: Like, young Robert Downey Jr. had this whole way of moving that I watched in Weird Science I watched in.
1:14:50
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you know, oh, so many movies of that era.
1:14:54
[UNKNOWN]: This is why I love coming up with Christmas right before you leave town.
1:14:57
[UNKNOWN]: Be nice, dear.
1:14:58
[UNKNOWN]: He's been studying abroad.
1:15:00
[UNKNOWN]: Really, which broad?
1:15:01
[UNKNOWN]: What's your name?
1:15:02
[UNKNOWN]: Candace.
1:15:04
[UNKNOWN]: I like that Howard Stark can still joke with his son who obviously irritates the crap out of him and Tony can kind of joke back.
1:15:13
[UNKNOWN]: Well, you see where Tony gets it from.
1:15:15
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly.
1:15:16
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:15:17
[UNKNOWN]: Can we have a favor?
1:15:18
[UNKNOWN]: Trying to burn the house down with Fomanda?
1:15:20
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
1:15:20
[UNKNOWN]: So it's Monday.
1:15:21
[UNKNOWN]: That is good to know.
1:15:22
[UNKNOWN]: I won't plan like Toga Party, accordingly.
1:15:24
[UNKNOWN]: I think we get a perfect image of what young Tony Stark was like, how his relationship with his parents worked, why it was problematic for everyone involved, and why he has so much on resolve shit.
1:15:38
[UNKNOWN]: We, they're here.
1:15:39
[UNKNOWN]: They're heading to the Bahamas, but are making a stop at the pentagon and don't worry.
1:15:44
[UNKNOWN]: You're going to love the holiday, man.
1:15:45
[UNKNOWN]: You're with the commissary.
1:15:46
[UNKNOWN]: You know, they say sarcasm is a metric for potential if that's true.
1:15:50
[UNKNOWN]: You'll be a great man someday.
1:15:51
[UNKNOWN]: I'll get the bags.
1:15:52
[UNKNOWN]: Which, of course, he is going to be a great man someday.
1:15:55
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:15:56
[UNKNOWN]: That's true.
1:15:57
[UNKNOWN]: He does miss you and you're not here.
1:15:59
[UNKNOWN]: And frankly, you're going to miss us because this is the last time we're all going to be together.
1:16:07
[UNKNOWN]: And we go, huh?
1:16:09
[UNKNOWN]: What am I watching?
1:16:10
[UNKNOWN]: What is this?
1:16:11
[UNKNOWN]: It's a song that, if you don't, you'll regret it.
1:16:15
[UNKNOWN]: And we see young Tony processing that, and then he says, kind of rushed.
1:16:20
[UNKNOWN]: I love it again.
1:16:23
[UNKNOWN]: And I know you did the best you could.
1:16:25
[UNKNOWN]: And she kisses him.
1:16:26
[UNKNOWN]: And he reacts.
1:16:28
[UNKNOWN]: And then mom moves out of the frame.
1:16:31
[UNKNOWN]: And as she moves out of the frame, we reveal standing behind young Tony Stark is old Tony Stark.
1:16:37
[UNKNOWN]: Watching this whole scene.
1:16:39
[UNKNOWN]: Beautifully choreographed.
1:16:40
[UNKNOWN]: Beautiful.
1:16:43
[UNKNOWN]: And we go, oh, I'm starting to get it.
1:16:47
[UNKNOWN]: That's how I wish it happened.
1:16:49
[UNKNOWN]: By nearly augmented retroframing or barf, I've got to work on that acronym.
1:16:54
[UNKNOWN]: An extremely costly method of hijacking the hippocampus to clear traumatic memories.
1:17:04
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, and he tries like blowing out the candle, which glitches its way out, and that is when we realize we're in sort of digital, you know, hollowed Graham kind of space watching this memory.
1:17:15
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't change the fact that they never
1:17:19
[UNKNOWN]: for all the things I did to avoid processing my grief.
1:17:21
[UNKNOWN]: Again, spoiler alert on the cinephiles, but the reason that they never made it to the airport is that they were killed by the winter soldier in the sequence we've already seen at the beginning of the movie, but we do not know that yet, and Tony does not know that.
1:17:35
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:17:36
[UNKNOWN]: And we realize that he's talking to a big audience.
1:17:39
[UNKNOWN]: Help me at what's the MIT mission statement?
1:17:42
[UNKNOWN]: To generate disseminate and preserve knowledge.
1:17:47
[UNKNOWN]: And work with others.
1:17:48
[UNKNOWN]: to bring it to bear in the world's great challenges.
1:17:51
[UNKNOWN]: And we realize, oh, he's talking to MIT and he's making a presentation.
1:17:55
[UNKNOWN]: Now, why Tony Stark felt the need to display his particular drama?
1:18:01
[UNKNOWN]: As a precursor to giving these people all this money, when one thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other, honestly, this is a testament to good writing and good filmmaking, because it totally works.
1:18:12
[UNKNOWN]: I don't bump on it.
1:18:13
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't make any sense.
1:18:15
[UNKNOWN]: It gets what really just doing this to plant it emotionally, but it totally works as a scene.
1:18:20
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because this is what a billionaire would do.
1:18:23
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, especially in egotistical billionaire like Stark.
1:18:28
[UNKNOWN]: Listen, don't get fooled that Tony Stark, just because he took the names off the weapons.
1:18:33
[UNKNOWN]: He's still not a very narcissistic guy.
1:18:36
[UNKNOWN]: And this is the deal you make with Tony Stark is your hero because he does a lot of narcissistic things.
1:18:42
[UNKNOWN]: And the movie is going to convey that or show that.
1:18:45
[UNKNOWN]: And in this moment, a billionaire is going to put you through his trauma and make you watch his trauma
1:18:53
[UNKNOWN]: And that's the exchange right there you don't know that you're that's the exchange You don't know you're gonna get that at the end, but since you're sitting there and you're the audience You're gonna go to the trauma with me, and so there is that sense of with Stark that he needs other people to be to witness his pain It's a fascinating thing, but I think it all comes from ego and narcissism, you know
1:19:16
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, honestly, if we can channel ego and narcissism towards generosity and communal good, we would probably do in a lot better.
1:19:27
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
1:19:27
[UNKNOWN]: That's where he's sending his narcissism at this moment.
1:19:30
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
1:19:30
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and you think of the people that he is close to at this moment in his life.
1:19:34
[UNKNOWN]: People that he would share this type of thing with.
1:19:37
[UNKNOWN]: he's got pepper who we find out they're on a break not yeah don't break who else does he have he's got wroteie right but wroteie's got a life wroteie's an avenger he's got happy but happy's not really the guy you're gonna get into in the weeds emotionally maybe so he's forcing these children to watch one of the most painful moments of his life
1:19:57
[UNKNOWN]: I think this is a great point.
1:19:59
[UNKNOWN]: Tony has very limited peers.
1:20:02
[UNKNOWN]: Modi is his friend, not his peer.
1:20:04
[UNKNOWN]: They're not equals, you know, happy works for him.
1:20:07
[UNKNOWN]: That, you know, the only equals are pepper and Steve, I think.
1:20:12
[UNKNOWN]: But there's nobody else that he puts on his own level that he could talk to it.
1:20:18
[UNKNOWN]: But that's on purpose.
1:20:19
[UNKNOWN]: Right, I don't think he's a guy who could handle living in a world where there are more than two or three people that are equal to him because his ego would just take too much of a massive hit, but I do think this is to read this scene a little more generously than I just did.
1:20:34
[UNKNOWN]: This is also a window to the into his PTSD into his family.
1:20:39
[UNKNOWN]: into his unresolved feelings of guilt, and we're about to get a scene with Alfred Woodard that really hammers at home, what has been going on with him, and this is all leading us to end game.
1:20:51
[UNKNOWN]: This whole PTSD from the Avengers movie is still in Iron Man 3, is still coursing through Tony.
1:20:59
[UNKNOWN]: We see that he's speaking on a teleprompter, and one of the things he does is he's speaking
1:21:08
[UNKNOWN]: and the crowd goes wild.
1:21:10
[UNKNOWN]: Those streets and attractions we've ran the future.
1:21:16
[UNKNOWN]: Starting now.
1:21:17
[UNKNOWN]: I wanted to just talk about this moment, which is, so I went, I was like, well, how much money is Tony spending to fund every student project at MIT?
1:21:27
[UNKNOWN]: And this is a total bullshit number that I came up with and it's a huge range.
1:21:32
[UNKNOWN]: So student projects could cost anywhere from $5,000 to a half a million dollars.
1:21:39
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, because there are student projects that are like, I'm doing this for a few weeks.
1:21:43
[UNKNOWN]: I need you this.
1:21:44
[UNKNOWN]: There are student projects that are very, very serious, extensive scientific research projects.
1:21:49
[UNKNOWN]: And there are 11,000 students at MIT.
1:21:52
[UNKNOWN]: Therefore, with a range of $500 to $100,000, the range that Tony would be spending would be between $100 million and $2 billion.
1:22:03
[UNKNOWN]: That's how much he spent.
1:22:04
[UNKNOWN]: And we go, wow, that's amazing.
1:22:07
[UNKNOWN]: But who is the analogue, the real world analogue for Tony Stark?
1:22:11
[UNKNOWN]: The real world analogue for Tony Stark is Elon Musk.
1:22:15
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, after you might think about him, he is currently worth and I didn't look at his net worth today because it changes by tens of billions of dollars every day.
1:22:24
[UNKNOWN]: But at this moment, it's somewhere between 900 and 950 billion dollars.
1:22:30
[UNKNOWN]: which means we're Elon Musk to fund all of MIT's students' projects, and it was the top of the level.
1:22:39
[UNKNOWN]: So $2 billion, that represents 0.2% of his net worth.
1:22:45
[UNKNOWN]: So 0.2% means he could fund everyone there.
1:22:51
[UNKNOWN]: and for comparison, let's take not a super rich person, but an ordinary rich person.
1:22:57
[UNKNOWN]: Let's say this a person who is worth $10 million.
1:23:01
[UNKNOWN]: That is, for any of us would look and go, that dude's rich.
1:23:04
[UNKNOWN]: They got $10 million.
1:23:06
[UNKNOWN]: For them, that would mean the equivalent of giving away a charitable donation of $20,000.
1:23:12
[UNKNOWN]: That's how little Elon would have to spend to be charitable.
1:23:17
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just saying there are a lot of people with a whole bunch of money that could solve a whole bunch of the world's problems if they wanted to be more charitable as Tony Stark is in this moment.
1:23:26
[UNKNOWN]: And then Tony gets to the end of his speech and he looks up at the teleprompter and sees that the next line is now I would like to introduce the head of foundation pepper pots.
1:23:41
[UNKNOWN]: And he hesitates and has a reaction.
1:23:45
[UNKNOWN]: And then he doesn't read what's all in the teleprompter.
1:23:48
[UNKNOWN]: Instead, he says, go for it.
1:23:50
[UNKNOWN]: Next.
1:23:52
[UNKNOWN]: There are many reasons why this is in the movie, but one of those reasons is Quentin Faltro's contract with the MCU ended after Iron Man 3.
1:24:01
[UNKNOWN]: And so they would have had to pay her if they were going to bring him back and had the new contract, and they didn't really feel like doing that.
1:24:08
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
1:24:09
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
1:24:12
[UNKNOWN]: But I think story wise, it's better, it's better that she's not there.
1:24:16
[UNKNOWN]: Like he's got nobody.
1:24:18
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, it's good.
1:24:19
[UNKNOWN]: It clears the space, right?
1:24:22
[UNKNOWN]: So that it's Tony versus Cap.
1:24:25
[UNKNOWN]: Because also we're about to see it a little bit.
1:24:28
[UNKNOWN]: Peggy dies.
1:24:29
[UNKNOWN]: So the two important women in these two men's lives have been removed by death or standpoint, not contract negotiations.
1:24:37
[UNKNOWN]: And so there is no barrier.
1:24:39
[UNKNOWN]: There is no barrier between Tony and Steve and that's important because I think if they had a council in their lives that could stop them from this confrontation that's coming in this movie, they would have, right?
1:24:53
[UNKNOWN]: And it there isn't.
1:24:53
[UNKNOWN]: So that's why we get the massive fight that we do at the end.
1:24:56
[UNKNOWN]: Oh Peggy wouldn't.
1:24:57
[UNKNOWN]: Peggy wouldn't have told him.
1:24:59
[UNKNOWN]: Told Steve to back on Peggy would have agreed.
1:25:01
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, maybe.
1:25:03
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
1:25:04
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe.
1:25:05
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, she knew Howard, right?
1:25:07
[UNKNOWN]: She knew Howard.
1:25:08
[UNKNOWN]: She was friends with Howard.
1:25:09
[UNKNOWN]: So would she have to or his grandfather, right?
1:25:12
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, Howard it was.
1:25:13
[UNKNOWN]: So I don't think she would have been okay with Steve pummeling Howard's son.
1:25:18
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I think there would have been some conversation.
1:25:21
[UNKNOWN]: But well, the pummeline was a result of the disagreement.
1:25:26
[UNKNOWN]: And the other thing, you know, Shannon, I'm sure you've experienced this many times in your writing and John, I'm sure you've experienced it in your way is like no show, no production, no script is not going to run into horrible problems.
1:25:41
[UNKNOWN]: good projects, figure out how to turn their horrible problems into advantages.
1:25:46
[UNKNOWN]: And my guess is that Pepper was in the original version of the script, and then they said, well, you can't have her, and they managed to come up with a way to make that the lack of Pepper adds drama rather than the moves it.
1:25:59
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:25:59
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:26:00
[UNKNOWN]: Then backstage, she runs into a very enthusiastic
1:26:10
[UNKNOWN]: This is what I love about the Russo's like like the the folks that they worked with on community how how they Not all of them, but but a lot of them have popped up in their MCU projects.
1:26:20
[UNKNOWN]: D. D. Poody was in Wintersolder.
1:26:22
[UNKNOWN]: He was one of the one of the shield Text event Nicole Brown ends up popping up in in game.
1:26:29
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
1:26:29
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't think Chevy Chase is made it in I don't know if he's gonna be one of the laparian witches or not
1:26:38
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's never going to make it on the material that we're in, no way, no way.
1:26:45
[UNKNOWN]: He wants to get his own project funded for a self-cooking hotdog.
1:26:50
[UNKNOWN]: I like that he describes it as, it's chemical detonators that hook it.
1:26:56
[UNKNOWN]: So Tony extricates himself from this situation and then the teleprompter person comes up to apologize.
1:27:03
[UNKNOWN]: I'm so sorry about the teleprompter.
1:27:05
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't know Ms. Potsett cancelled.
1:27:06
[UNKNOWN]: They didn't have time to fix it.
1:27:10
[UNKNOWN]: I'll be right back.
1:27:11
[UNKNOWN]: That is very efficient screenwriting.
1:27:13
[UNKNOWN]: We saw it on the teleprompter.
1:27:14
[UNKNOWN]: We saw his reaction.
1:27:16
[UNKNOWN]: Now she says that pepper has canceled and we're like, oh, something's going on.
1:27:20
[UNKNOWN]: And then, and again, this is all good screenwriting.
1:27:23
[UNKNOWN]: He said, where's the restroom?
1:27:24
[UNKNOWN]: Because the reason that he can't talk to the hot talk professor or the teleprompter lady is that he has to go to the bathroom.
1:27:31
[UNKNOWN]: Then he walks to the bathroom, pauses for a second, and walks right past it.
1:27:35
[UNKNOWN]: We already kind of knew it was a lie for him to get away from them.
1:27:38
[UNKNOWN]: But demonstrating visually that it's a lie makes it even better.
1:27:42
[UNKNOWN]: And he walks over to the elevator and their seas, Alfred Woodard.
1:27:48
[UNKNOWN]: And I think, A, this is a remarkable scene.
1:27:52
[UNKNOWN]: I think B, it is remarkable having Alfred Woodard to play this scene.
1:27:57
[UNKNOWN]: It's so small and bringing in a world-class actor to do it makes all the difference in the world.
1:28:03
[UNKNOWN]: And she's in the MCU twice, right?
1:28:07
[UNKNOWN]: Because, well, I guess in the Marvel universe twice, because she was in this cage.
1:28:12
[UNKNOWN]: And she's in low cage.
1:28:13
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:28:13
[UNKNOWN]: But I think this is, you know, this is the Russo is probably reaching out to an actress that they admired growing up.
1:28:20
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know the particular, maybe you have that Steve, but like, and asking her to play this scene.
1:28:25
[UNKNOWN]: Because I think if you get,
1:28:27
[UNKNOWN]: You know, like a five and under or an actress that doesn't have too much experience like you want to bring someone in that the audience kind of knows or maybe does know and then have her deliver this back and forth with Tony with the right amount of emotional resonance.
1:28:43
[UNKNOWN]: to impact Tony and impact us as the audience, you know?
1:28:47
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, someone who is, there's power and stillness.
1:28:50
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what, that's what her performance is.
1:28:53
[UNKNOWN]: Like you can feel, especially towards the end, you can feel the anger and the rage and the hurt, simmering underneath, but it never really, it never escapes through the cracks, but you can just kind of feel,
1:29:10
[UNKNOWN]: you can just feel it and the way that also the Russo's directed this I mean I know Steve Steve
1:29:17
[UNKNOWN]: will, again, be able to speak to this better than I can, but the way that the Rusos direct when Tony sees that the elevator button is not pushed.
1:29:26
[UNKNOWN]: We don't know what he's looking about because the elevator, that button is not in frame, but the fact that he is able to clock her see that the button isn't pushed, and then after as he pushes it, the camera goes down, and, you know, it's, it's,
1:29:42
[UNKNOWN]: it's like ballet like when everything is kind of working together that an actor is able to time a movement and tie it to an emotion as and to the camera movement as well like it comes off seamless but it takes it takes work.
1:30:00
[UNKNOWN]: It's very spare and I think it's very
1:30:04
[UNKNOWN]: well worked out like Robert Denny Jr. Obviously is well known for he's going to improvise his way through a scene and maybe they did a bunch of improvisation as they were building the scene, but my guess is he and Alfred got this down to a science.
1:30:19
[UNKNOWN]: Like I bet they ran this in his trailer or her trailer over and over again because it is so precise and so paired down that I don't think
1:30:35
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and she worked with Robert before in Heart and Souls, one of these kind of like quietly, you know, like favorite films of people from that time, and she was also in the singing detective.
1:30:47
[UNKNOWN]: So she had experience working with RDJ, so there's a trust already between them.
1:30:53
[UNKNOWN]: And so I'm sure this must have been,
1:30:55
[UNKNOWN]: an incredible scene for these two actors who also, again, from the school of the 80s, Alfred was all through the 80s.
1:31:02
[UNKNOWN]: And so having them work together in this scene, I'm sure was an utter joy for both of them as actors, you know.
1:31:08
[UNKNOWN]: And she's playing Miriam Sharp, who is a a strong character in the M, is in the comics as well as here in the MCU.
1:31:15
[UNKNOWN]: So there was a very strong idea, a very strong motivation for what they wanted from this scene.
1:31:21
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm going to hold that back until we get the end of the scene, but I will answer your question, John, about how Alfred Woodard got cast, which once the Russo's talked to RDJ about what they wanted to get out of the scene, Alfred Woodard is his idea.
1:31:35
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, he said, well, that's what you want.
1:31:36
[UNKNOWN]: They were tart and souls.
1:31:37
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
1:31:38
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:31:38
[UNKNOWN]: That's who, so she's cast entirely because he wanted her.
1:31:42
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
1:31:44
[UNKNOWN]: She compliments him on his generosity.
1:31:47
[UNKNOWN]: They deserve it.
1:31:49
[UNKNOWN]: Plus it helps ease my conscience.
1:31:52
[UNKNOWN]: They say there is a correlation between generosity and guilt.
1:31:57
[UNKNOWN]: But if you've got the money.
1:32:01
[UNKNOWN]: break as many eggs as you like.
1:32:02
[UNKNOWN]: That is a weird line, man.
1:32:04
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:32:05
[UNKNOWN]: It's kind of sounds like a compliment and encouragement.
1:32:09
[UNKNOWN]: But boy, there's a fist, you know, hidden inside that glove.
1:32:14
[UNKNOWN]: And that is the moment Shannon that you pointed out that he notices the elevator button has not been pushed.
1:32:19
[UNKNOWN]: Do you know which is a totally natural question to ask?
1:32:22
[UNKNOWN]: Like, oh, we're going to push up or down.
1:32:24
[UNKNOWN]: I'm right where I want to be.
1:32:26
[UNKNOWN]: And at that moment of that very odd line, she reaches into her purse, and the second she starts reaching into her purse, he grabs her wrist, fairly aggressively, and I think totally correctly.
1:32:39
[UNKNOWN]: I think at this moment, Tony Stark with this person reaching into the purse, yeah, you grab the rest.
1:32:44
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay.
1:32:46
[UNKNOWN]: It's like a patient laser.
1:32:48
[UNKNOWN]: And then, Alfred Woodard with just perfect calm.
1:32:52
[UNKNOWN]: It's a control-in-or-com that makes them this scene so powerful.
1:32:56
[UNKNOWN]: That's what for the state department.
1:32:58
[UNKNOWN]: Human resources, I know it's boring.
1:33:02
[UNKNOWN]: But it enabled me to raise a son and very proud of what he grew up to be.
1:33:09
[UNKNOWN]: And we're going like what the hell is going on here.
1:33:14
[UNKNOWN]: and out of her purse, she picks a photo of him.
1:33:17
[UNKNOWN]: And pushes it again, aggressively onto his chest.
1:33:21
[UNKNOWN]: His name was Charlie Spencer, you murdered him.
1:33:25
[UNKNOWN]: That moment, and Robert Denny Jr. is such a fine actor.
1:33:31
[UNKNOWN]: And he gets to show one place that he's amazing all the time his Tony Stark.
1:33:36
[UNKNOWN]: Here he's getting to show this other area, the vulnerability, the pain, the openness in a way
1:33:43
[UNKNOWN]: And so, Kovia, not that that matters in the least to you.
1:33:51
[UNKNOWN]: You think you fight for us, is fight for yourself.
1:33:59
[UNKNOWN]: Who's going to avenge my son Stark?
1:34:03
[UNKNOWN]: He's dead, and I blame you.
1:34:15
[UNKNOWN]: So this scene is a perfect companion scene to rum-low scene and not that she's a villain like rum-low.
1:34:23
[UNKNOWN]: What's the soft spot for RDJ?
1:34:26
[UNKNOWN]: It is the guilty fields of what his weapons have done in the world, right?
1:34:30
[UNKNOWN]: From the first Iron Man movie when he finally becomes Iron Man and embraces it and changes it and all of that.
1:34:36
[UNKNOWN]: It is the guilt of what he has done in the world with his name with his weapons.
1:34:42
[UNKNOWN]: And so him becoming Iron Man is an extension of that.
1:34:45
[UNKNOWN]: And so to have her hit him,
1:34:48
[UNKNOWN]: where it hurts the most, just like rum-low hit, cap-word hits the most.
1:34:53
[UNKNOWN]: I think it makes these scenes really good companion scenes in the movie, and both of them are affected to go down the path that go down because of the scenes that they have here at the beginning of the movie.
1:35:07
[UNKNOWN]: And the moment that she reaches into her purse, and we see that,
1:35:12
[UNKNOWN]: that that motion that he has when he grabs your hand.
1:35:14
[UNKNOWN]: Like, when you think about the reality of being Tony Stark, unless he is at home, how often is he by himself?
1:35:24
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
1:35:24
[UNKNOWN]: If he's in public, happy is with him.
1:35:27
[UNKNOWN]: Someone is with him.
1:35:29
[UNKNOWN]: So the moment that he realizes, you see, you see those wheels turning like, oh, I'm alone, I don't have a suit.
1:35:37
[UNKNOWN]: And this lady's reaching into her purse.
1:35:41
[UNKNOWN]: I actually think it's good filmmaking, because the camera angle the Russo's use is a camera angle we've seen before in films when someone reaches into something and pulls out the gun.
1:35:51
[UNKNOWN]: So we as the audience are like, oh shit, because we don't know who Alfred Woodard is.
1:35:54
[UNKNOWN]: We don't know what's going to happen here.
1:35:56
[UNKNOWN]: So when Artigé grabs a wrist, I think I'm going to enjoy the audience is like, what is happening?
1:36:01
[UNKNOWN]: We're immediately on edge.
1:36:02
[UNKNOWN]: And for her to pull out something much more hurtful than a gun.
1:36:06
[UNKNOWN]: which is the picture of her dad's son and putting it on his chest around his heart on his art.
1:36:12
[UNKNOWN]: I think is, you know, like essentially not a kill shot, but certainly a shot to hurt him.
1:36:18
[UNKNOWN]: I think too, there are little details both in the way it's filmed and in particular with Robert Dunney Jr's performance.
1:36:24
[UNKNOWN]: There are ways, so the person is reaching into their purse to grab a gun and you a trained superhero is going to stop them.
1:36:32
[UNKNOWN]: There are many, many cool ways
1:36:35
[UNKNOWN]: with tons of confidence and calm that a superhero might do that.
1:36:39
[UNKNOWN]: Robert Denny Jr. is nervous.
1:36:41
[UNKNOWN]: It's clear, I think, and there's several moments in this movie.
1:36:44
[UNKNOWN]: Another one being when he says, my left arm is numb.
1:36:46
[UNKNOWN]: Is that weird?
1:36:48
[UNKNOWN]: That's a joke, but I actually think his PTSD is running haywire in his body.
1:36:55
[UNKNOWN]: I think Robert Denny, I think Iron Man is a character
1:36:58
[UNKNOWN]: who does do the heroic thing, but it's not because he's not actually overcoming all sorts of emotions and stress and adrenaline and ups and pull downs and all that stuff all the time.
1:37:10
[UNKNOWN]: I think Iron Man is a bit fucked up by all its experiences and we see them in little details throughout this film.
1:37:18
[UNKNOWN]: Also Tony Stark's not a trained fighter, right?
1:37:21
[UNKNOWN]: Like his suit does all the work for him.
1:37:23
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, he moves in in places, but he has all the gadgets.
1:37:26
[UNKNOWN]: Whereas cap does not need the costume to fight.
1:37:30
[UNKNOWN]: Cap can defend himself.
1:37:31
[UNKNOWN]: There's the difference.
1:37:32
[UNKNOWN]: Here's Tony naked and he is afraid in that moment that something could happen.
1:37:37
[UNKNOWN]: And now I'll say what the original concept was, and it's so obvious to me that once I heard it, I was like, well, of course, this is what this is.
1:37:45
[UNKNOWN]: As soon as they told Robert Downey Jr. this, this is why he thought of Alfred Woodard, this entire scene, the inspiration for it, is the slap from jaws.
1:37:56
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, that's great.
1:37:58
[UNKNOWN]: And it's so obvious, like it is literally the face-to-face woman with a dead son makes this character feel guilty creating a key character moment.
1:38:08
[UNKNOWN]: It is so
1:38:10
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it ends with my son is dead now.
1:38:13
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I mean, so it's, and yet I've never, I watched this movie many times, never occurred to me until I heard them say it on the commentary track.
1:38:20
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
1:38:21
[UNKNOWN]: Like she says, who will avenge my son?
1:38:23
[UNKNOWN]: You're the sheriff.
1:38:24
[UNKNOWN]: Who will avenge?
1:38:24
[UNKNOWN]: You're the chief.
1:38:26
[UNKNOWN]: Who will avenge my son?
1:38:27
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:38:28
[UNKNOWN]: And this character, Miriam Sharp, as I mentioned earlier, is out of the comic books.
1:38:32
[UNKNOWN]: She is a character in the comic books.
1:38:34
[UNKNOWN]: She has a young son named Damien, who attends Stanford Elementary, and in the comics her son was at school the day that a fight between the new warriors and several supervillains destroyed much of Stanford, including the elementary school, and after her son's death, because she dies in that skirmish,
1:38:53
[UNKNOWN]: She becomes a power voice in the emerging pro-registration movement demanding the government past the superhero registration act.
1:39:02
[UNKNOWN]: So there are connections to her in civil war, so to use this character in this name at this point, but at this moment, and change her motivation to fit the story they're telling here was just so smart, so smart by the Russo, it's really because it's a nice little wink and nod to the comic book loving audience as well who knows civil war.
1:39:21
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because that's that's I like I said, I'm ready, but that's the Civil War comic plot.
1:39:24
[UNKNOWN]: It's not the Sequovia courts.
1:39:26
[UNKNOWN]: It's not Zemo and Bucky.
1:39:27
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
1:39:28
[UNKNOWN]: It is new warriors and the superhero registration.
1:39:32
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
1:39:32
[UNKNOWN]: She's talking about and it makes it personal for Tony.
1:39:37
[UNKNOWN]: Because it's like, do you need it?
1:39:39
[UNKNOWN]: Psychovier chords are what you need.
1:39:40
[UNKNOWN]: That's what starts.
1:39:41
[UNKNOWN]: That's what is really the argument.
1:39:44
[UNKNOWN]: But because Tony is confronted with the results of his actions, that is what suddenly makes it a personal argument versus a professional argument.
1:39:54
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you have so articulated what is and Shannon have you have actually read my book, but the the directing book that is now working I'm working with our friend Mike Ross to actually get it to come out.
1:40:05
[UNKNOWN]: But anyway, you know, I talk about this idea of story versus plot and that plot is the external mechanisms that's making stuff and happen and story is the
1:40:13
[UNKNOWN]: internal interpersonal and character evolution over time, and that story is usually what drives movies.
1:40:19
[UNKNOWN]: It makes them good.
1:40:20
[UNKNOWN]: And what you just described so perfectly, Shannon, is the Sukovia courts are the plot.
1:40:25
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:40:25
[UNKNOWN]: The story is this moment for Iron Man and I would contend and I bet you could prove it that if you look at the less successful Marvel movies, what you will see is, okay, I can see what the plot is, but the story isn't really working.
1:40:39
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not really involved with these characters in the way that I used to be involved with the MCU characters.
1:40:45
[UNKNOWN]: And then we cut from there back to Avengers headquarters where essentially we have that wonderful situation where characters happen to sit down turn on the news and the news is talking about exactly about what they need to hear and we hear about the reaction to the incident logos.
1:40:59
[UNKNOWN]: We also hear that 11 what condens were among those old during a confrontation.
1:41:04
[UNKNOWN]: This is the first time we've heard about what condens in the MCU as far as I know.
1:41:15
[UNKNOWN]: Our people's blunt is spilled on foreign soil, not only because of the actions of criminals, but by the indifference of those pledged to stop them.
1:41:26
[UNKNOWN]: Victory at the expense of the innocent is no victory at all.
1:41:31
[UNKNOWN]: Wakanda is first mentioned in Avengers Age of Ultron, because Ulysses' claws steals a bunch of my braidium in my volume.
1:41:39
[UNKNOWN]: And that is how they create, that is how they create vision.
1:41:42
[UNKNOWN]: Well, let me go a little further.
1:41:45
[UNKNOWN]: What kind of first appears as a star egg visual on a shield holographic attracting map in Iron Man 2?
1:41:51
[UNKNOWN]: So the first time we see, see what kind of is Iron Man 2?
1:41:55
[UNKNOWN]: The first time we hear what kind of being uttered his age of Ultron, and then the first time we hear about what kind of guns?
1:42:01
[UNKNOWN]: is this particular movie, so yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
1:42:29
[UNKNOWN]: This is why you cast a casting is so important.
1:42:31
[UNKNOWN]: And we say it a million times on their show state, but he immediately comes in and has a regalness to him that is amazing.
1:42:38
[UNKNOWN]: And you immediately like him.
1:42:39
[UNKNOWN]: And I can get behind what he says.
1:42:41
[UNKNOWN]: And go, yeah, I want to follow this guy.
1:42:44
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, Steve is watching that.
1:42:46
[UNKNOWN]: Turns it off, and what we're still in the news because Wanda is also watching the news who is directly talking about her.
1:42:55
[UNKNOWN]: What legal authority does an enhanced individual like Juan to maximum of half, to operate in Nigeria?
1:43:02
[UNKNOWN]: It's my fault.
1:43:03
[UNKNOWN]: It's not true.
1:43:04
[UNKNOWN]: You turn the TV back on, they're being very specific.
1:43:08
[UNKNOWN]: And then, Capic explains why this was his fault.
1:43:12
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm going to say, buck you.
1:43:15
[UNKNOWN]: All of a sudden, I was a 16-year-old kid again in Brooklyn.
1:43:19
[UNKNOWN]: People died.
1:43:21
[UNKNOWN]: That's on me.
1:43:22
[UNKNOWN]: And it's on both of us.
1:43:24
[UNKNOWN]: And I believe that they are right.
1:43:27
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, which isn't the same by the way as saying that they're bad people or that they didn't own thing or that they shouldn't be acting as the Avengers trying to stuff because not stopping Romolo and just letting him have some bio-weapon.
1:43:38
[UNKNOWN]: That's not a good thing either.
1:43:40
[UNKNOWN]: This is job.
1:43:45
[UNKNOWN]: Try to save as many people as we can.
1:43:48
[UNKNOWN]: Sometimes it doesn't mean everybody.
1:43:49
[UNKNOWN]: But if you can't find a way to live with that, next time,
1:43:57
[UNKNOWN]: It's some very convenient logic for Steve, isn't it?
1:44:01
[UNKNOWN]: And this is where I sometimes, I'm gonna bump on throughout the movie because everything applies until we're talking about bucky.
1:44:09
[UNKNOWN]: And no, no, no, no, no, it's not quite that because it's bucky, you know?
1:44:13
[UNKNOWN]: So to me, I do find that Steve has some convenient logic when it is nothing to do with anyone he cares about.
1:44:19
[UNKNOWN]: And a different logic when he's talking more of the macro approach to things.
1:44:23
[UNKNOWN]: And this is kind of like the first window into that.
1:44:25
[UNKNOWN]: when he has this interaction with Wanda, because he's essentially, you know, oh, it's not you fault.
1:44:31
[UNKNOWN]: I should have done this with that, but like, there is a conversation to be had here about how you laid out the game plan and what you could do in the future and her feeling a little bit of guilt over this is not a bad thing.
1:44:43
[UNKNOWN]: It's going to make her focus more for the next time.
1:44:46
[UNKNOWN]: You know, so.
1:44:48
[UNKNOWN]: Boy, Steve, I distinctly remember John saying that he had kind of switched
1:44:55
[UNKNOWN]: I see flaws on both sides on both sides.
1:44:58
[UNKNOWN]: Look, Tony, Tony is no better.
1:44:59
[UNKNOWN]: Let me tell you, we'll get to that.
1:45:01
[UNKNOWN]: Let's not underestimate the importance of persuading the independent voter.
1:45:07
[UNKNOWN]: Independent voter is frequently the key to elections.
1:45:11
[UNKNOWN]: And we should honor their independence and support their desire to look carefully at both sides because if one knows that they're in the stronger position,
1:45:20
[UNKNOWN]: then one obviously can feel that all one has to do is properly present the facts and the independent voter being a very intelligent and thoughtful person in the past.
1:45:30
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
1:45:30
[UNKNOWN]: We'll naturally go to the side that has the most logical arguments and most persuasive policies.
1:45:37
[UNKNOWN]: All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all
1:46:03
[UNKNOWN]: crossbones gets away with it.
1:46:04
[UNKNOWN]: He doesn't present any restraint or other plan or other ways to handle things where we still do something but maybe have more caution.
1:46:14
[UNKNOWN]: And you have two points of views, don't you?
1:46:15
[UNKNOWN]: Like Steve comes from, you know, not a rich,
1:46:20
[UNKNOWN]: background and having to struggle and fight and be taken seriously and then the super ceremony changes his life.
1:46:26
[UNKNOWN]: So how do I adjust it?
1:46:27
[UNKNOWN]: This new life of mine that affords me much more attention than I had before.
1:46:32
[UNKNOWN]: Tony comes from a much more elevated place in terms of his privilege.
1:46:35
[UNKNOWN]: And so it's an interesting battle of perspectives throughout this home movie.
1:46:40
[UNKNOWN]: And he's essentially being the mom, the traditional generic series type mom character
1:46:49
[UNKNOWN]: Steve is the one going into the room to talk to the child and calm it down and that's what we've seen typically in in films and TV shows.
1:46:55
[UNKNOWN]: So it's like just a stereotype that but of course that's do it too.
1:46:59
[UNKNOWN]: I don't want Stevie to get mad.
1:47:00
[UNKNOWN]: That's do it too.
1:47:01
[UNKNOWN]: It's just that typically you see it's the mama is the softer touch and cap is trying to be the softer touch here, you know, which I get.
1:47:08
[UNKNOWN]: So then their conversations interrupted by vision just using right through that wall come into the room.
1:47:15
[UNKNOWN]: I love that.
1:47:16
[UNKNOWN]: I love the way that one reaction is.
1:47:19
[UNKNOWN]: Please, we talked about this.
1:47:21
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, but the door was open, so I assumed that Captain Rogers wished to know when Mr. Stock was around.
1:47:31
[UNKNOWN]: So he's walked in on her, she's getting dressed, right?
1:47:34
[UNKNOWN]: He's accidentally caught her in the state of undress, you know?
1:47:38
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think Paul Bettney's performance as vision is like a goddamn magic trick.
1:47:44
[UNKNOWN]: I like he walks this line to create this character that is so instantly recognizable, totally unique.
1:47:52
[UNKNOWN]: and extremely like a like I love vision and it's the minimal way they wrote him the careful way they wrote him and the way Paul Betney performs this, I think it's amazing.
1:48:03
[UNKNOWN]: I mean the journey that he has had in the MCU, yeah, where he was in a booth for Iron Man, he recorded, you know, recorded the the Jarvis Jarvis AI dialogue, I imagine just a few sessions
1:48:19
[UNKNOWN]: being able to become this character who then is now starring in a zone show like it's just fantastic and Paul that Paul that needs performance as vision like you see him putting things together like it it makes logical sense the door is open that means people can come in why does it mean I have to go through the door right an entrance is an entrance
1:48:40
[UNKNOWN]: And what's so great because obviously we've had many mechanical AI non-human characters, you know, and the trope, you know, obviously starting with Mr. Spock, of the person who doesn't understand human emotions, wanting to understand human emotions, and continuing with data and with all sorts of other character.
1:48:58
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, this is a normal thing, and yet vision is its own approach because the thing that's for me,
1:49:05
[UNKNOWN]: The thing that's different from vision from all the others, all of whom I love in our amazing characters, there's a feeling like vision is actually ahead in wisdom, in some fundamental way, even though he doesn't really understand humans or humans, but human behavior, there's still some part of them that's beyond us, I think.
1:49:25
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, and that's still happening now for people who have not,
1:49:30
[UNKNOWN]: Watch the vision quest.
1:49:31
[UNKNOWN]: That is an element of vision quest as well.
1:49:33
[UNKNOWN]: This idea of trying to understand human beings connect to human emotions, you know.
1:49:37
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:49:38
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
1:49:38
[UNKNOWN]: Be right down.
1:49:40
[UNKNOWN]: I'll use the door.
1:49:41
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
1:49:59
[UNKNOWN]: and we walk in and there's William Hurt as Secretary Ross.
1:50:04
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, the lake great way of heart.
1:50:06
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think he's he's good as Ross in the Hulk movie.
1:50:12
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's great as Ross in Civil War.
1:50:15
[UNKNOWN]: I think his character makes much more sense.
1:50:18
[UNKNOWN]: Really, really works is more modivatable.
1:50:20
[UNKNOWN]: And he's just very solid.
1:50:22
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and he this starts the
1:50:26
[UNKNOWN]: the MCU using everything that's on the table because did you need to bring Thunderbolt Ross back?
1:50:33
[UNKNOWN]: No, you could this could have been anybody.
1:50:35
[UNKNOWN]: But the fact that it's like, hey, this guy was in a movie.
1:50:38
[UNKNOWN]: The movie didn't.
1:50:39
[UNKNOWN]: The movie wasn't great, but he was pretty good.
1:50:41
[UNKNOWN]: The audience will probably recognize him.
1:50:44
[UNKNOWN]: And
1:50:45
[UNKNOWN]: William Hurt is so excellent in this role and as someone who is just an unabashed lover of Harrison Ford Man, it's it's too bad that William Hurt passed away Because man, I would have loved even though Brave New World was a bad You would have loved to see William Hurt.
1:51:02
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, in that bad movie with that not good script and a character that did make a lot of sense Okay, I don't think I don't think they adjust the movie to make it a William Hurt movie
1:51:13
[UNKNOWN]: if it's William hurt.
1:51:15
[UNKNOWN]: They did it for Harrison Ford because they'd think Harrison Ford still had some juice with the audience and he clearly doesn't as Indiana Jones and this and the new Captain America film proved you know and so but I if he had stayed it with as as Thunderbolt Ross maybe they'd stayed with the original plan for that Captain America movie because William hurt can't leave movies anymore.
1:51:34
[UNKNOWN]: Not the way that he did to get people in seats and so it would have been a different movie I think but I think I think Sam Elliott is the best
1:51:41
[UNKNOWN]: younger version of Thunderbolt Ross and William Hart is the best older version of Thunderbolt Ross.
1:51:47
[UNKNOWN]: So I take your points.
1:51:47
[UNKNOWN]: I agree with you Steve.
1:51:48
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's great in civil war here and I take Shannon's point.
1:51:51
[UNKNOWN]: He was kind of wonky as Thunderbolt Ross.
1:51:54
[UNKNOWN]: Thunderbolt Ross is a military man.
1:51:56
[UNKNOWN]: There's nothing about William Hart that radiates military.
1:51:59
[UNKNOWN]: Literally nothing.
1:52:00
[UNKNOWN]: But there is something that radiates
1:52:03
[UNKNOWN]: a older military man who's become a politician, that is what William Hart can ready it really well.
1:52:09
[UNKNOWN]: And we start off with hearing that he had a heart attack right in the middle of playing golf.
1:52:14
[UNKNOWN]: Turn out it was the best round of my life because after 13 hours of surgery and a triple bypass, I found something 40 years in the army and never taught me perspective.
1:52:28
[UNKNOWN]: When someone opens a conversation with me with that kind of an anecdote by brain, all the warning lights are coming up of like, okay, where are we going here?
1:52:42
[UNKNOWN]: The world owes the Avengers and I'm payable to you have fought for us, protected us, wish your lives.
1:52:53
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm listening going, I hear a butt coming.
1:52:59
[UNKNOWN]: But while our great many people see you as heroes, there are some who would prefer the word vigilantes.
1:53:08
[UNKNOWN]: They are vigilantes.
1:53:11
[UNKNOWN]: They are fighting crime outside of the law.
1:53:13
[UNKNOWN]: That is the definition of a vigilante.
1:53:15
[UNKNOWN]: And what word would you use, Mr. Secretary?
1:53:18
[UNKNOWN]: How about dangerous?
1:53:20
[UNKNOWN]: What would you call a group of US-based enhanced individuals who routinely ignore sovereign borders and inflict their will wherever they choose and who, frankly, seem unconcerned about what they leave behind?
1:53:36
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think he said anything that's not true at this point.
1:53:41
[UNKNOWN]: I think saying frankly, unconcerned with what they leave behind is a bit disingenuous because if the Avengers do not assemble in New York, what happens?
1:53:54
[UNKNOWN]: The planet potentially gets taken over.
1:53:56
[UNKNOWN]: That's 100% true.
1:53:58
[UNKNOWN]: How have you seen them be concerned with what they left behind?
1:54:03
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, there's a plaque that we find in the hot ass.
1:54:06
[UNKNOWN]: Excuse me, excuse me.
1:54:08
[UNKNOWN]: So, start takes over, uh, cleaning up efforts that causes, uh, vulture to become vulture, I guess.
1:54:15
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:54:16
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
1:54:17
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I'm not saying they aren't concerned about what they've left behind, but we didn't see them go back to Logos.
1:54:22
[UNKNOWN]: We didn't see them in the Kovia.
1:54:24
[UNKNOWN]: We building buildings.
1:54:25
[UNKNOWN]: We haven't seen them.
1:54:26
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, they, they look.
1:54:28
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not saying you don't fight Thanos.
1:54:30
[UNKNOWN]: Of course you fight Thanos.
1:54:31
[UNKNOWN]: Right, but they do cause tons of damage everywhere they go and while we can say that they're working really hard to not kill anybody.
1:54:40
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there's a lot of damage and a lot of people getting hurt all around them all the time and how much concern do they show about all that?
1:54:49
[UNKNOWN]: Some.
1:54:50
[UNKNOWN]: Look, Sukovia, you got me dead to rights on this one, because that is all a result of Tony Stark.
1:54:58
[UNKNOWN]: So you got me on that one, and even Daniel Bull brings that up in Falcon and Winter Soldier, which I think does speak to your point.
1:55:07
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, what I just did is exactly what Ross does, because when the group sits quiet, he brings up all the evidence.
1:55:13
[UNKNOWN]: So we see scenes from New York, from Washington, D.C., when we had the, from Captain and Winter Soldier.
1:55:18
[UNKNOWN]: We see Cicobia.
1:55:19
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, the one, the final one we see.
1:55:22
[UNKNOWN]: is the explosion in Lagos and again, this is where editing, you know, this is what happens in the editing room is that if you look at the reaction shots to everything that Ross is showing, the editors are cutting to the appropriate person that you would want to see right in that moment, so naturally after the explosion in Lagos, the last person we cut to is Wanda who's having a very strong reaction.
1:55:46
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and the shot that they use for logos, it's a, it's a, it's a very, it's a very clever clever move that they made because it is a shot of a young girl who's eyes are open.
1:55:56
[UNKNOWN]: And we think for a moment, it's a still, but then you see dust moving in the background, it's like, oh, that child is dead.
1:56:05
[UNKNOWN]: That's the moment, right?
1:56:06
[UNKNOWN]: Cap, always cap, always the sanitary approach cap, always the safe approach, turn it off, turn it off.
1:56:13
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it's like, no, you've got to confront what you've done and has to stay on the screen.
1:56:19
[UNKNOWN]: So you understand what's going on and why this is all being motivated.
1:56:23
[UNKNOWN]: Cap is always trying to make everyone feel better and hide away from the stuff and shove it under the mattress, but you've got to deal with it.
1:56:31
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I want to drill down on this moment a little further because I think you're absolutely right.
1:56:36
[UNKNOWN]: And just to put a button on it or to put a bow on it, why does Kat's cap say, okay, that's enough.
1:56:43
[UNKNOWN]: Who is he trying to protect?
1:56:44
[UNKNOWN]: One day.
1:56:45
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly.
1:56:45
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
1:56:46
[UNKNOWN]: Is that what Kat is doing as a leader is he's feeling the vibe in a room.
1:56:50
[UNKNOWN]: That's what you do.
1:56:51
[UNKNOWN]: You're aware of how everybody's feeling.
1:56:54
[UNKNOWN]: And he feels that one person,
1:56:57
[UNKNOWN]: is having a very strong emotional reaction and wants to protect her.
1:56:59
[UNKNOWN]: That's perfectly reasonable and a good leader within that group.
1:57:04
[UNKNOWN]: That doesn't have anything to do.
1:57:05
[UNKNOWN]: One is feelings have nothing to do with whether or not superheroes should have some restrictions on them, or should not, that is him being a leader because he is emotionally feeling something in this room at the group and makes a decision based on those emotions in that particular moment.
1:57:22
[UNKNOWN]: And this is a microcosm of why I do not trust anybody with unfettered power.
1:57:29
[UNKNOWN]: I do not want the police to exist without regulations.
1:57:31
[UNKNOWN]: I do not wish our companies that pollute the world to exist without regulations.
1:57:36
[UNKNOWN]: And I do not wish our government, our presidents, our armies or anybody else in the world to exist without regulations because all humans have emotions and are making decisions based on those.
1:57:47
[UNKNOWN]: Some of which might be rational, some might not be.
1:57:50
[UNKNOWN]: None of us can determine that from the situation we're in.
1:57:53
[UNKNOWN]: We can only fill, feel what Capfields, which is what's the vibe in the room.
1:57:57
[UNKNOWN]: This is hurting this person at this moment.
1:57:59
[UNKNOWN]: For the past four years, you've operated with unlimited power and no supervision.
1:58:03
[UNKNOWN]: That's an arrangement.
1:58:04
[UNKNOWN]: The governments of the world can no longer tolerate.
1:58:10
[UNKNOWN]: But I think we have a solution.
1:58:12
[UNKNOWN]: And he pulls out this book, by the way, I have no idea how he got all these governments to create the Jacobia courts apparently entirely in secret.
1:58:21
[UNKNOWN]: And Jacobia Accords approved by 117 countries, it states that the Avengers shall no longer be a private organization.
1:58:33
[UNKNOWN]: Instead, they'll operate under the supervision of a United Nations panel.
1:58:38
[UNKNOWN]: only when and if that panel deems it, this is certain.
1:58:43
[UNKNOWN]: See, and this is where I go team cap, because I hate this on so many levels, because as cap is going to say later, these governments have agendas.
1:58:53
[UNKNOWN]: And they, what if they send us into a place, we're going to get to them just saying, like, to me, when I hear this idea,
1:59:00
[UNKNOWN]: that the governments of the world are going to decide where you get to know fucking way, man, no way.
1:59:08
[UNKNOWN]: So I under this is where I'm like, I bristle at that idea because there are so many flawed leaders in the world you just said, Steve, that what essentially autonomous control and want to be able to do things without question?
1:59:24
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and in my head, Canon, um,
1:59:27
[UNKNOWN]: This started after DC.
1:59:30
[UNKNOWN]: This started after Captain America, and this older than these conversations started to happen.
1:59:35
[UNKNOWN]: Because again, they're not the logo's of course.
1:59:37
[UNKNOWN]: They're the Sikovia cords.
1:59:38
[UNKNOWN]: So this was done in response to what happened in Sikovia.
1:59:43
[UNKNOWN]: But again, I feel like Logos was the cherry on top.
1:59:47
[UNKNOWN]: Like, all right, now we can now we can actually do something here.
1:59:52
[UNKNOWN]: But again, I think
1:59:54
[UNKNOWN]: the whole revelation that Hydro was in charge of shield, that it's like the country's got together and be like, all right, we have to put a stop to all of this craziness, all of this escalation that has been happening.
2:00:06
[UNKNOWN]: And Sikovia and Lagos ended up being the perfect runway to land the plane.
2:00:12
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I, and I wonder to ask you, Steve, on this, and I wonder like what what I bumped on this time around watching it was this felt like Star Trek 6 when Kirk is recruited by Spock to be the
2:00:33
[UNKNOWN]: Tony Stark was he the only representative was he was he consulted on these accords has he been talking with Thunderbolt Ross since that conversation with Alfred Woodard has he been part of the soul like when he shows up in the secular state he's essentially okay the so-called the accords so was Tony in his arrogance.
2:00:52
[UNKNOWN]: The only Avenger who was involved with these nations to come up with these accords or was consulted on these accords.
2:00:59
[UNKNOWN]: So he shows up because we know Tony is a smart guy.
2:01:02
[UNKNOWN]: He's going to read this stuff.
2:01:03
[UNKNOWN]: So that is an interesting element to me as well.
2:01:06
[UNKNOWN]: Was Tony like Spock saying, well, this is what we need to do and I'm going to convince you, cap to be part of this.
2:01:12
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it's a fascinating moment because him walking in with the Ross is okay and what Ross is doing essentially.
2:01:18
[UNKNOWN]: There's no question in my mind that Tony knew what this was before Ross showed up.
2:01:22
[UNKNOWN]: He brought Ross here, like, of course he absolutely knew it.
2:01:27
[UNKNOWN]: And the reason you can tell that he knows it in the later scene when Tony, you know, cap says, Tony, you've been unusually, you know, nonverbal or whatever he says.
2:01:37
[UNKNOWN]: And Tony says, you know, starts to act as if he doesn't really have an opinion before pulling out the the video of the kid Alfred Witterskid, showing that he is already 100% Decided.
2:01:48
[UNKNOWN]: Tony is better connected than cap.
2:01:51
[UNKNOWN]: He's better informed than cap.
2:01:54
[UNKNOWN]: He 100% this is totally a setup on his part.
2:01:57
[UNKNOWN]: And what I thought of and it's not at the same scale at any way.
2:02:00
[UNKNOWN]: But Cap didn't inform Tony about something absolutely horrible, unbelievably personal and incredibly painful that we're going to get to at the very end of this.
2:02:11
[UNKNOWN]: But Tony negotiating to put the vendors on a leash, which I think he's been doing and not informing Cap, is also a betrayal of omission.
2:02:21
[UNKNOWN]: Just like Cap's is.
2:02:23
[UNKNOWN]: Because I'm sure they went on this mission without telling Tony to go after cross bones and the bio agent.
2:02:29
[UNKNOWN]: Tony didn't know about it.
2:02:30
[UNKNOWN]: And so, and remember, Tony from...
2:02:32
[UNKNOWN]: Ultron has wanted to create this force field around the Earth, so he's very much leans into that place of wanting to control things because he's operating for that PTSD from a place of fear.
2:02:44
[UNKNOWN]: He's always operating from a place of fear, future fear.
2:02:47
[UNKNOWN]: Right, Cap is trying to deal with the current problems.
2:02:51
[UNKNOWN]: Tony is already thinking ahead to what problems could be down the road.
2:02:55
[UNKNOWN]: And so this is where they're slamming into throughout this whole movie.
2:02:59
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I'm, I'm, I'm realizing or thinking about is I do think it's really interesting that the three of us are actually all really in different positions about this because I'll tell you what doesn't really matter to me in terms of I'm it's not really that I'm keen cap or team Ironman because their personal stories personal motivations or personal histories.
2:03:21
[UNKNOWN]: To me is immaterial to the fundamental question that we're asking.
2:03:26
[UNKNOWN]: The fundamental question is not whether or not I can trust cap or trust ironman, or any of these individual people.
2:03:33
[UNKNOWN]: It's whether or not I think it's okay to have very, very powerful people working entirely outside of any control or system to control them.
2:03:42
[UNKNOWN]: And so for me, this is, you know, how what Tony treated cap or what Tony's PTSD or what cap's relationship to Bucky is, or any of those are entirely immaterial to the question that I think we're wrestling with, which is, if there were a super powerful part, like, well, let's hear Sears Ross's next line.
2:04:02
[UNKNOWN]: Tony, captain, do you know where a Thor and Banner are right now?
2:04:07
[UNKNOWN]: If I misplaced a couple of 30 megaton nooks, you can bet there'd be consequences.
2:04:12
[UNKNOWN]: I think this is a excellent analogy.
2:04:15
[UNKNOWN]: Hulk in particular is an entirely unpredictable and extremely dangerous thing, and if that creature person existed, yeah, we would need to keep tracks on that person because they're really dangerous.
2:04:28
[UNKNOWN]: But I think Shannon might agree with me on this.
2:04:30
[UNKNOWN]: process a little biased because he's got it hard on for Hulk, right?
2:04:33
[UNKNOWN]: So I mean, like 100% this, how much it is a little bit like, you know, him still trying to, which is why we need regulations on government.
2:04:43
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, the basis of our constitution is that no human can be trusted with too much power.
2:04:49
[UNKNOWN]: And the most always be restraints on people, hopefully restraints that motivate them to act in society's best interests.
2:04:57
[UNKNOWN]: But regardless, there have to be restraints
2:05:00
[UNKNOWN]: like George Washington was a very trusted trustworthy person, unless you happen to be owned by him.
2:05:06
[UNKNOWN]: But even though he was the most trusted person in the world, he felt, don't give me too much power.
2:05:13
[UNKNOWN]: And then he gave up his power.
2:05:15
[UNKNOWN]: Because it's the system that matters.
2:05:17
[UNKNOWN]: It's, yes, they're going to be individual people like Ross, also to end, you know, and like Robert Redford's character, I fully corrupt evil guy can come into power.
2:05:26
[UNKNOWN]: That's certainly true.
2:05:28
[UNKNOWN]: But the only thing we have for the fight against them, I mean, just having another vigilante fight against them, then we're just in chaos.
2:05:33
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but I'll draw down a little further.
2:05:35
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, she had, do you want to chime in on this?
2:05:36
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry, I don't mean to go there.
2:05:38
[UNKNOWN]: No, I mean, I think the comparison between Hulk and Thor to two weapons that anyone could get their hands on.
2:05:45
[UNKNOWN]: I think that is a bit of a disingenuous comparison.
2:05:49
[UNKNOWN]: Because Thor, at this point, has proven nothing, but to be a reliable ally.
2:05:54
[UNKNOWN]: Um, the, and the banner comparison as you already said, Johnny, like he, he's got skin in the game with that.
2:06:01
[UNKNOWN]: He's got a history.
2:06:02
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
2:06:02
[UNKNOWN]: You can't totally rely on on what he's saying just because of that past.
2:06:09
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
2:06:10
[UNKNOWN]: But I do want to.
2:06:12
[UNKNOWN]: Go, one level deeper, Steve.
2:06:14
[UNKNOWN]: The assumption is that these accords are supposedly in good faith to regulate the Avengers.
2:06:21
[UNKNOWN]: And we don't necessarily know that these regulations are going to be the right regulations and be unbiased, because this is also a unilateral body exerting its power and removing the individual freedom of these superheroes, you know, which campus gonna bring up in a couple of minutes, I think.
2:06:40
[UNKNOWN]: I would disagree that it's a unilateral body because this is a 117 countries that to me is a definition of a non-unilateral body.
2:06:48
[UNKNOWN]: All right, because yeah, because these other countries weren't because they weren't deemed important enough, which already makes it a flawed situation.
2:06:54
[UNKNOWN]: But to your other point, I totally agree with.
2:06:57
[UNKNOWN]: And one of my many criticisms of cap is he rejects the accord's sight unseen, nor does he ever try to negotiate.
2:07:05
[UNKNOWN]: He never goes like, well, what are these regulations?
2:07:08
[UNKNOWN]: how exactly would they work?
2:07:10
[UNKNOWN]: Like what you could have done was try to make a deal and push back, but he says, caps response is, there should be zero controls on me or any of my people at all.
2:07:22
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there is a moment later right with the pen scene with Tony and after what's happened with Bucky, where I think Cap has his guard down and he'd be much more willing to negotiate the Zikovia court.
2:07:35
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, him taking that pen and the scene is essentially saying, I'm considering it, but then when he finds out how Tony's treating Wanda, it just ends that moment completely, you know, and so yeah, you're right.
2:07:53
[UNKNOWN]: read it and then get back to me, right?
2:07:54
[UNKNOWN]: But Steve has already against it.
2:07:55
[UNKNOWN]: He doesn't even read it.
2:07:56
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's good boy.
2:07:57
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and, but again, none of my objections to, to cap's decision have anything to do with the motivations of Steve Rogers as a character.
2:08:06
[UNKNOWN]: I think his actions make perfect sense for his character and makes her great movie.
2:08:12
[UNKNOWN]: It's the philosophical issues that I have been processed with.
2:08:14
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and this is the thing.
2:08:16
[UNKNOWN]: Ross essentially says he creates the opening, compromise,
2:08:20
[UNKNOWN]: reassurance.
2:08:21
[UNKNOWN]: That's how the world works.
2:08:23
[UNKNOWN]: Believe me, this is the middle ground.
2:08:27
[UNKNOWN]: He's saying, look, you need to take a step towards regulation at this moment.
2:08:32
[UNKNOWN]: You know, and that's what you need to save the Avengers.
2:08:36
[UNKNOWN]: So, there are contingencies.
2:08:39
[UNKNOWN]: Three days from now, the U.N. meets in Vienna to ratify their courts.
2:08:43
[UNKNOWN]: And Steve looks over at Tony, and it is so clear that the battle lines have been drawn.
2:08:49
[UNKNOWN]: I'm talking over.
2:08:52
[UNKNOWN]: And if we come to a decision, you don't like?
2:08:56
[UNKNOWN]: Then you retire.
2:08:58
[UNKNOWN]: And at that moment, as I think we have set up what the fundamental conflict of Captain America Civil War is, I think we should end part one of our exploration.
2:09:09
[UNKNOWN]: Of course, we'd love to hear your thoughts.
2:09:11
[UNKNOWN]: We'd love to hear if your team, Iron Man or team cap or team in the middle are an independent voter waiting to be swayed.
2:09:19
[UNKNOWN]: by this very, very detailed conversation.
2:09:23
[UNKNOWN]: We'd love to hear you on social media, just do a search for the cinephiles and Sina underscore files on Twitter, the cinephiles podcast on Instagram.
2:09:30
[UNKNOWN]: If you're not a subscriber to the show, that's the best way to guarantee that you get every episode, every week and guess what?
2:09:36
[UNKNOWN]: you can subscribe at all the podcast places, including Spotify and Apple, as well as on YouTube where we do try to do live shows once a month where you can see our pretty faces, the rest of the time, it's just audio.
2:09:48
[UNKNOWN]: And it was said at the beginning of the show, the best way to support the show is through Apple Podcasts where you can get ad free versions of the show, as well as our cinephile shorts.
2:09:56
[UNKNOWN]: And also on patreon.com slash the cinephiles where you can also join our advisory board and get a whole bunch of other benefits.
2:10:03
[UNKNOWN]: And if you wanna reach me, it's SR Morris on Twitter,
2:10:06
[UNKNOWN]: You can always reach me at the Roca says on all social media and you can watch the stuff I do separately on my YouTube channel YouTube.com size John Roca says where I co-host a show with our guest channel McClung on the GeekBadies of Michael Vogel also do the hot mic spill the T.K.
2:10:22
[UNKNOWN]: the my own reactions and reviews yeah and I said the hot mic already so so much going on over there please subscribe as well and Shannon thank you so much for coming on show if people wanted to find you how would they do so?
2:10:36
[UNKNOWN]: uh... on social media on twitter you can follow me at shannon underscore mclean on instagram at shannon the geek buddy and uh... yet knowing knowing that i've been looking forward all year to have this conversation knowing that i'm like all right two thousand twenty six is coming up i can't wait to talk about cat than american civil war and uh... thus far the conversation has not disappointed
2:11:00
[UNKNOWN]: I 100% agree and I cannot wait to continue our discussion of Captain America Civil War next week right here on the Senate Files.