Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Parenting, Protests & Police Accountability in the Aftermath of the Minneapolis Border Patrol Shooting

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Normally Podcast: Parenting, Protests & Police Accountability in the Aftermath of the Minneapolis Border Patrol Shooting · Normally

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm back on normally the show A normal
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: kicks for Winden News gets weird.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I am mark here, and I'm Carol Markowitz. Kind of
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: an eventful weekend, Mary Catherine.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, and not just the snowstorm, which I, by the way,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: was stuck in as we predicted last week. Not surprising,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: but I did make it back. And I do want
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: to tell you the difference between being a boy mom
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and a girl mom, since I now have a boy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I walked in and my little boyfriend all the way
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: down the stairs to cling to my leg when I
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: walked in, and my four year old daughter jumped off
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the couch and ran toward me and then pushed me
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: aside dramatically to run to her father. And I was like,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: your dad has gone for ninety minutes picking me up.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I've been gone for three days.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this Chrack's it doesn't change as they get older either.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: I have a teenage.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the preteen boy is super still into me, as
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: is my ten year old boy. The girl. Like I
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: was touching her today, she was like inching away.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I just love that she's like dramatically pushed me aside.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: He's back, He's back from the long drive.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's back from that trip to Dulles anyway, a
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: moment of levity before we get into the.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I tried to take the weekend off
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: from it just because I saw how bad shit it
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: was becoming, and I was like, I'm gonna have to
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: get back into it on Monday, so may as well
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: enjoy this time off. But yeah, Minnesota not looking good,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: not getting better.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: A lot going on, all right.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: So this weekend we had yet another. This was a
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: border patrol involved shooting of a guy who was protesting SLASH,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: standing in the road directing traffic SLASH, getting in a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: tussle with cops. Alex Pretti was his name, a nurse
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: as his day job, and he was killed at the scene.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: So we have now two fatalities of American citizens in
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: these scuffles. First of all, same as with Renee good Like,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: no one wants it to end this way, and I
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: suspect that in this case. So he was concealed carrying,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: which is his perfect right to do at a protest.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Once you are confronting cops and you have a gun
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: in your waistband, you have put yourself in a very
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: risky situation and generally, when you learn concealed carry, you
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: learn that you would announce and a very light and
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: very hands in the air to say, hey, officers, I
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: want to inform you that this is going on. Yep,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: that didn't happen. This fight started again. There's all the whistling,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: there's all the people crowding around. As you've seen in
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: each of these sort of civilian run operations against ICE enforcement.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: This happened to be border control, and I suspect that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: maybe there was an accidental discharge at some point as
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: this man was being disarmed, right, and then it sets
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: off this chain reaction where he ends up dead.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's clearly not as obvious as the renee Good
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: one where she hit the officer with her car. I
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: think that one was just much more clear than what
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: happened here. They're still figuring out the facts and the
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: details on the ground. But of course all these bad
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: elements are taking advantage of the confusion and spreading just insanity.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Protesters are breaking windows and doors at federal buildings.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: They're throwing rocks.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: They destroyed the lobby of a hotel, the home two
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: suites because they heard that ICE agents are staying there,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and They also vandalized every single car in the parking lot,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: hoping that some of them belonged to ICE agents. It's
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: a devastating thing that two Americans have been killed in
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: this way. I continue to lay the blame for this
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: at the feet of elected officials in Minnesota who refuse
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: to work with the federal government because it gets them
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the press that they are opposing Trump. To me, this
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: is a real travesty and that's where the responsibility lies.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, as I said when after Renee Goods shooting,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I hoped that when Jacob Fry went on Fox and Friends,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: that there was an attempt maybe for a climb down position.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And as you note, Carol, the climb down position would
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: simply be we will honor ICE detainers, right, and the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: administration could say, great, we'll get our guys out of there,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: less in our forces for a little while to allow
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that to happen, and let's operate in good faith. Someone
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: was noting on x that the vast, vast majority, as
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: in seventy percent of any conflicts with ICE come from
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a handful I think, nine nine county counties.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: It's Kevin vass Is the one who put to put
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: this together. Violent confrontation in these nine counties were five
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: hundred and ninety times more likely than any of these
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: other three thousand, one hundred and thirty four counties. So
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: six hundred times almost more likely for violence in these
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: few counties where these radical I don't even know. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: can't call them protesters. These aren't protests. These are riots
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: that they're trying to foment here.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, I think a good question for liberals,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and there's a couple things going on here, but I
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: think a good question for liberals would be if conservatives
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: were using these exact tactics, yeah, for something they believe
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: den would you think that that was okay? And the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: obvious answer is no. The right does not have a
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: protest slash insurgency culture because, as you said, it's not
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: all protest. I want them to be able to protest vigorously, sure,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: but we have really collapsed the categories. As long as
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: you're on the left haves this sort of naive idea
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that you're going to push every line in every encounter
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: as far as you possibly can way past protesting into violence,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: into physical confrontations with cops, and that that will never
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: go badly for you. I do not think that that
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: is a realistic expectation. And when you get a high
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: percentage of these encounters and the local officials want you
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: to be having these encounters right, going to raise the
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: risks significantly for everybody involved. So I hope there was
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: an attempt to climb out. It looks like now there
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: actually is called Donald Trump, which I feel like is
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: a sign that perhaps they'd like to go about this
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: in a more orderly fashion. Here here's the other thing, though,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the administration did not do its job well in talking
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: about this incident, and honestly, I think we said that
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: after good as well, where they were calling her a
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: domestic terrorist, and it's like, guys, this is a serious issue.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: There is a person who is deceased. Let's not slam
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the person America and talk about a responsible investigation we're doing.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And that investigation may indeed clear officers, but you need
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: to be serious about it. And in this case, I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: think Christy Noman was even more out of line this
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: time the Department I'm a security secretary in the way
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that she talked about it, just coming to all sorts
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of conclusions that she could know nothing about and that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the video did not show, saying that this person had
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: come to this protest or this action with the desire
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to take out as many as possible, and it's like,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: no right. And then, by the way, because you're framing
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: it that way, you are undermining Second Amendment rights because
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: he is actually well within his rights if he has
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: a concealed carry to have that, even in a protest situation,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: that's right. To suggest that that alone means he is
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: intending to do harm to officers is not something that
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Second Amendment people want to get into.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: Right, absolutely.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's that was the recoil I saw online
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: after her comments.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: It was just what are you saying?
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Like, do you realize that anybody on quote your side
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: would also be armed in these kinds of situations, And
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: so yeah, I thought it was irresponsible and stupid. Definitely
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: not the past that we want to see the right
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: go down. You know what I was thinking when she
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: said that they you know that he had gone there
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: to harm ice agents?
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: My first thought, and I had had this thought.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: During the Biden administration too, But it was very like,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I hope you know what you're talking about, because I
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: was like, I hope that that she is sharing information
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that she has that we don't have, and it doesn't
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: look like that's the case, which is no, And it
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: looks like.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: There is a split in the Department of Homeland Security
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: about how this is being done, with one side being
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the Christinom Bovino, who's the border patrol guy with the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: giant duster. Yeah, the Bovino crew versus a Homan crew. Now,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you'll remember after Renee Goods shooting that Tom Homan was
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the adult in the room.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: He's fantastic, and he really said yeah, yeah.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: He just plain and simple, was like the serious thing happened,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and there's an investigation and we come to conclusion after
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: all those facts are found.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Right, right, And that should be the line all the
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: time that brings down the temperature, that makes people say,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: my government is taking this seriously.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And so now the Home and Camp is being put
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: in charge of Minnesota instead of the Nomes be right, Yeah,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: according to Trump truth Socials and Christy Nomes tweets today. Right.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So, Governor Walls apparently had what he's calling a productive
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: call with President Trump. They agreed that he would talk
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: to his Department of Homeland Security. That's Trump would talk
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: about his Department of Homeland Security about ensuring the Minnesota
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is able to conduct an independent investigation,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: as would ordinarily be the case. The President also agreed
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: to look into reducing the number of federal agents in Minnesota.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: The governor.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: This is from a news piece about this. The governor
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: reminded President Trump, the Minnesota Department of Correction already honors
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: federal detainers by note of buying ICE when a person
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: committed to its custody isn't a US citizen. Okay, Bill Malujian,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: who you know? I think it's important in times like
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: these to follow and read serious people. So I consider
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Bill Maludian one of those people. And he says he
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: writes very misleading from Walls. Yes, his prison honors ICE
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: detainers by transferring quote convicted criminal aliens after they serve
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: their sentence, but his city and county jails do not.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: ICE wants criminal aliens arrested for crimes handed to them instead.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Of being released to the streets.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Even California prisons honor ICE detainers. The sanctuary fights are
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: over city and county jails. So Walls is saying something
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: that was already in place, and Bill says that this
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: fight is actually over city in county jails, where you
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: go when you're being held before you're tried for something.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So the fact that Walls is trying this is not
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: a great sign for peace on the ground.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I think that uh, Trump consents that this signature issue
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: of his, which was a great boon to him in polling,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: is taking a turn. I think again, they would have
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: done in themselves a lot of favors to switch out
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the way they were doing things and putting a home
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and in charge a couple of weeks ago. Trump consents this.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I think there is a danger of turning this into
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: an albatross, UH, into turning people against the idea of
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: enforcement with sloppy work sometimes with things that could be
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: done better. And if you don't deal with that swiftly,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I think it will it will take a toll. And
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I think Trump knows that.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even aside from the political part, Trump is.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: A big softy.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Seeing footage of an American killed on the streets of Minneapolis,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I just think I think that kind of thing affects him.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: He is is he really does get into where something
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: tragic like that really you could see, affects him. He's
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: not this cold hearted monster that people portray him to be.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I could see him seeing that video. And look, even
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: his commentary has been different than with Renee Good. I
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: think that he saw this as something else.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: The tricky part of this is that you must enforce
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: federal law. You have to you have to right once
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you as you and I know as if we can
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: use our parenting experience for this.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: You don't negotiate with terrorists.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: No.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: If you're rewarding, if you reward bad behavior. If the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: mob says you may not be in this city and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: then you say, okay, we're not going to be in
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: that city, that goes really badly. And it's an interesting
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: thing that some people I really respect, who are center left,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: very reasonable people are saying like, well, look, there was
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: all these riots in twenty twenty and then January sixth,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and only one person was killed Ashley BABBITTT Right, Yeah, Now,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I happen to think that that was a justifiable incident
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: where she was a mob was with her and she
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: was posing a danger and there's one officer there. Right.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting to me that they think that that's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the proper posture of policing, that summer twenty twenty. Hands off,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: let everyone burn down the cities, right, I don't think
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: so is the right level of policing. I would say
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that what happened is that we under policed thereby creating
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the conditions in which people think that they can do this.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Set up autonomous zones, do January sixth, then break down
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: a bunch of barriers and no one will do anything
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to them. Burn down like government buildings and no one
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: will do anything to them. And now in Minneapolis that
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you can just run an entire Citi's worth of anti
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: ice full on it, semi insurgent operations, and that will
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: be fine, and that it's so incredibly dangerous. And the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: right simply doesn't have the same type of culture. And
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say this, I think there were real
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: rights violations in the ways that nonviolent J six people
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: were treated in not being like right, in the ways
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: they were overcharged in over sentenced, I think, dragneting phones.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of issues there. And you know what,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: it also was a deterrent forever the right to try
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: anything like that again. And there is no corrective to
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the left.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: That's exactly it. The left just does not get punished
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: for stuff like this. The media covers up for them there,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: you know, very lenient. DA's cover up for them and
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: nothing happens. And I'm not a national divorce person, but
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: if Minneapolis is just allowed to go on without any
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: federal presence, without enforcing federal law, I don't know how
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: we stay a country. I don't know how we remain
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: you know, the same people. It's very, very difficult to
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: picture us living together after a federal investigation, a federal
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: presence in Minnesota is forced to leave and they don't
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: have to follow a federal law. Like it becomes like,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: why do we have to follow federal law? I don't
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: want to pay taxes? Why do I have to do that?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I can Bret Share from Daily Wire tweeted this very succinctly.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: He said, withdrawing at any level from Minneapolis and sending
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the message that you can chase off the Feds if
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you set up an intricate interference campaign would be by
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: far the dumbest thing to do.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Walls, by the way, before calling Trump potentially
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: inflamed once again by bringing in the National Guard. Now,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: do I think national Guard is going to turn on Ice? No?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I don't. What they did end up doing was standing
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: around the federal installation and handing out donuts to some
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: protesters but also some people who are involved in other
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: things that are not protests. And then later that night,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: when there's this attack on a hotel and people are
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: tearing down the facade of this hotel, one federal offer
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: officer is left defending that place with no help from
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: local PD because unfortunately the people doing this crime, Walls
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and Fry think are doing it for a righteous reason,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and they are their constituents, and they're like, looks good
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to us, Like I am. It blows my mind.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually have a clip of that loan officer
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: guarding the hotel.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: I think we should play it.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: It's a little hard to understand, but just picture one
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: guy defending a hotel all by himself. We're all members
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: of the press, world press here, okay, this officer, Oh
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: my god, are you okay?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Are you okay? I'm fine for.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: The class, were the whole what's the message to the
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: local beauty sir?
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: No shit, Well, the mayor very it. While you're getting messages,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: what would your message the protesters that want you out
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: being please guys the.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Room so he appears to be bleeding, which is why
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: they ask in the beginning, are you all right? Well?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And he had been involved in this altercation with other people.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: The press start like closing in on in on him
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and asking question. I've seen people tweet, Oh, he's he's
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: unfairly threatening the press. No he's not. He was inundated
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: by people. He is one officer, and now a bunch
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of people he doesn't know are closing in on him again.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And he has every right to go get away from me.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And this is the thing that bothers me. If you
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: were on the left, you do not believe that you
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: have to honor any line. Yeah, for cops, and at
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: some point the society has to say no, they can
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: hold a line.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: We give them the responsibility and we give them the
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: power to draw that line. And again, how do we
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: live in a society together if one part of society
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: just doesn't think it applies to them.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Well, and I do think that Homan's approach is probably
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: more targeted, is probably less showy. Well probably, I mean
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: here's the other thing, because this is what I talked
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to some services this weekend and said, we should all
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: demand really competent operations.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Of course, right, yeah, very to.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Get as many of the people who really need to
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: be gotten as possible, right, And I think that Homan
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: is better qualified for that, and I think that it
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: could come to a place that would be a little
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: bit less hot in Minneapolis while still doing the job.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So I'm glad of that. This is also leading to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: another possible government shut down because the House had passed
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: oh glory b regular order twelve bills, like all the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: funding was going over to the Senate properly, but one
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of them is DHS, and now the Democrats are saying, well,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: we're not going to vote for that. Also, ICE is
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: already funded. It's not even right that won't even do anything.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So they're going to walk themselves into a little bit
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: of a situation here again. And who knows how that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: will turn out. But I do think and I know
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: that some of our audience will and some of the
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: audience when I was speaking this weekend don't agree with me.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: But I do think bodycams and fewer masks is probably
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: helpful for these operations. Bodycam's a special for sure.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: The masks, I don't know.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: But bodycams have been good for cops. They especially the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: audio ends up. It's not always the video that you
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: can see exactly, but the audio ends up exonerating a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: lot of cops and making things much more clear. And
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I think would give citizens, even the ones who are
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: around rabbel rousers, more assurances that these guys are being
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: held accountable. I think that's something worth doing.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Well, We'll take a short break and be right back
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: with some more insanity, but it won't be quite as
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: dark as this. We are back on normally, where maybe
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I spoke too soon about it being a lighter topic.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: The Nation over the weekend had a very sensational piece
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: called Why I Didn't Report My Rape, and it is
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: a story of a woman being gang raped by six
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: men in a Las Vegas hotel room and the fact
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that she doesn't believe in reporting it to police is
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: the story that she tells Here, she writes, the simple
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: answer to the question of why I never reported the
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: rape is that I believe in the abolition of police
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and prisons. The less simple, less articulate answer is that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: to pursue prosecuting and potentially incarcerating other people is inconceivable
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to me, even when they have hurt me more than
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I could have ever believed possible. Because of this, I
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: can only vocalize what I want in negative and inherently
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: impossible terms. That's all I want, is that all I
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: want is for it to have never happened. Ma'am. The
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: thing is and it goes again back to the point
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: of how do we live in society with these people?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: She has no idea what these people did after they
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: left her. They could have raped dozens of women because
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: she didn't report it. They could have done far worse
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: acts because they got away with this one. I don't
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: think you get the option of saying I don't want
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: police to exist. When you live in a society, even
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the safest societies in the world, the ones who have
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: minimal crime, they have police and they have laws. So
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the more you accept, the more you'll get. And that's
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: what this woman reads like to me.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm terribly sorry this happened and sorry for
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: her because this piece reads like shockingly deranged. I mean,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: it is, yeah, an insane thing, and it's more than that.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: It is and reminds me some of the agitation of
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: these insurgent types and do like protest culture for their lives.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Is this infantile thinking that does not entile, It does
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: not allow you to go anywhere beyond your own ego. Basically,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: all she's saying is I am enlightened, so I'm not
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: going to think past this or what it might do
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: to the rest of society, or what it means to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: any other women who for these guys who walked like
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: there are second order consequences for everything unless you're a
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: toddler and you don't think about those things. And this
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: feels very She seems like a toddler, incapable of thinking
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: beyond a child's vision of that, she says in her quote. Also,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: she actually concedes, I can only conceive of it in
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: childish terms. How silly and strange it would be to
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: have a group of people in car storrated at my expense,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: when doing so would do nothing to fix the damage
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: they have already so thoroughly done. But what about the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: damage to other people?
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Right? And what about being punished for what they have done?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Like that's not a new concept.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: And it's crazy that they think that they're too enlightened
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: for this, And the result is situations like this where
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: people will get hurt because you think you're too good
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: for policing.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: You think you're too good for prisons to exist. It's
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I have to say I have not been this despondent
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: in the last year. I left this weekend being like,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: they're just doing this again, where they're rioting in the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: streets and demanding to get their way, and we may
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: give in and give it to them just to get
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: them to shut the hell up.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I will says, Yeah, there's a couple counterpoints to that,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: which is that, yes, I do think and this is
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: obviously an extreme case, but when when people see this,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: like in twenty twenty, you would have had to give
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: this much more of a hearing, right right, Well maybe
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: not in not reporting your rape is great, you know,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: we don't really have to do that anymore. And there
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: are a lot of people on the ice stuff who
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm one of them, who will say, Look, I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: will say I want these things improved, and I want
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: our the administration officials to act like grown ups when
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: they're not acting like grown ups, and to take this seriously.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: But I will not allow for the left's victims to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: be the only victims, because I care about all of them, right, Yeah,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Like I care that this guy died. I care that
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Renee Good died, and I care that a guy in
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Fairfax County was murdered by a guy they let out,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: So not honoring a ICE detainer the other day, I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: care about Lincoln Riley and so lefties are very good
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: at making sure the culture only cares about one type
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of victim at one time. And I think a lot
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: of people are not sort of succumbing to that part
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: of the bullying anymore, even to the acknowledge some of
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: this back can I point out, Sorry, we're going a
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: little bit off topic.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: But I've meant it's okay on a topic, you know, Yeah,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: I meant.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: To mention it. Earlier, the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce released
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: a letter on behalf of sixty CEOs in the area,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: some big corporation, some small, and it was a very
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: neutral statement. Our friend Matt Whitlock sent it to me
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: and he notes this is a good indication of how
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: things have shifted in response to these types of stories.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, this letter would have contained condemnation for
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Trump and partisan cya language. But these companies now understand
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: that taking political positions, especially under short term astroturfed pressure
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: is a long term loser. So they basically say, we
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: want everything to chill out, we want people to be safe,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: we want people to come and work together. But it
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: is a very different style of response, and I think
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are responding differently than they used to.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: That's a vibe shift, for sure.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: It just again, I've got you know, just felt so
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: despondent about this happening, about this death, and about where
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: we're headed as a country, that we can't seem to
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: kind of get it right, and after being pretty optimistic
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: for the last year or where I thought we were
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: heading in a better direction. You know, you asked in
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: the first segment whether what the left would do if
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it were the right, writing in a similar fashion, and yeah,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: but you know, what would they do to enforce immigration laws?
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: They keep saying, not this way, not like this, okay,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: but then what then?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: What would how would you deport illegal immigrants who came
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: by the millions during the Biden administration and the American
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: people elected Donald Trump to solve that problem?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Like, what would they do? And the answer, of course
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: is like this woman who does not report her own gang.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Rape, they wouldn't do anything. They don't want to solve
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that problem. And that's just deeply unfair and unreasonable, and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: I think Americans hopefully will understand that.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think you're right. That's my line in
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the sand is that you don't get to create mobs
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and then say federal law enforcement can't operate here because
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: we created mobs. By the way, Yeah, the Minnesota or
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the Minneapolis police department such that it is is much
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: smaller than it used to be because the incredibly demoralizing
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: treatment they received at the hands of their city, city,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and state leaders in twenty twenty. This is it so
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: that you create less of a police force. They can't
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: do the job, they don't feel like they're backed up
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: to do the job, and then you get this sort
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: of cycle of chaos, and you get a bunch of
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: liberals who truly in a way that the right does
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: not coordinate and create confrontations that again make everyone's lives
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: much more dangerous.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break and come back
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: with one more story.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: We're going to try to make this one lighter.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe yes, U.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: We are back on normally where slate dot com guess
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: that website still exists, has a piece called well that
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: is one way for JD and Vance to respond to
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the Erica Kirk divorce rumors.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Guy, wow, yeah, wow, Yeah.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: That's the fourth child.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: They're talking about that Usha Vance is pregnant with the
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Vance's fourth baby, and that this is potentially being done
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: because of the rumors that Erica Kirk hugged JD Vance
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit too much at an event. These people
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: are so disgusting. It's so many different ways.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I like about being a
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: normal person and a center right person is that I
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: can have totally uncomplicated feelings about bringing babies into the world,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Like I'm just like, awesome, that sounds great. I'm excited
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: for you, no matter what your ideology, I'm excited for you.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Uh. So another I noticed a Twitter account the other
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: day that that pointed out that I think Caroline Lovett, uh,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller's wife, and Usha are all pregnant at the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: same time. And it was like kill Hora, like so
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: so great they're spawning, I think, was the idea. Yeah,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, just three married women are having babies.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: What that's what we do? Guys.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Uh. Somebody else said about them, by the way, that
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: this is propaganda. This is they're doing it for propaganda purpose,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: and I retweeted it I wish like I wish they
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: were coordinating pregnancies, like guys, we got to get the
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: birth rate up, like let's let's all have babies.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, you know the tone of this is just
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: so gross. I'll give you a couple of paragraphs. This
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: pregnancy puts a spotlight on Usha, who's so far in
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: her tenure a second lady, has seemed intent on keeping
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: a low profile. News outlets were quick to note the
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: history nature of this bun in the oven, which should
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: make Usha the first sitting second lady in modern history
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: to bear a child in over one hundred and fifty
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: years per time. I confess feeling the tiniest twinge of
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: sympathy for her about the timing of the announcement. January
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: is early to announce a baby do in late July?
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Did she feel pushed to say something before people started
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: to notice her body changing had a psycho It's not
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: even early. I don't I don't think it's not really.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: The reports from a few months ago of her not
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: wearing her wedding ring could be viewed in a different
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: light now, she easily could have stopped wearing it because
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: her fingers were swolen. Okay, but here's my favorite part.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the part right here.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But that's all the poor Usha we should be indulging in,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: because it's important to remember that she is a willing
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: participant in all of this. Well, God, God would hope,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I would hope. So, while it's tempting to wonder if
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: anyone else in her law school class has put their
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: career on hold to have in italics, four kids, we.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Have four kids married, Catherine, do that?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Do you think she chose to have all those kids
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: and to leave her career to support her husband, to
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: stay with that husband, no matter how increasingly awful he seems,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: both as a force in society and as an individual
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: partner to her. Usha is free to slap. I had
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: this before JD went crazy. Stickers on her other kids.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: But if she could ever claim any kind of ignorance,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: that time is over.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: It's one of those I hope this person has people
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: in her life who love her and will say this
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: is absolutely insane.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: You are a crazy person. You need to seek help.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think that any of these people do, because
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: otherwise they wouldn't be writing stuff like this. These are
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: inside thoughts. These are thoughts you think and maybe laugh
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: with your best friend, not published on a website. You
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: absolute insane person, I for.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: One, will be putting in italics for chi. That's right.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: They made up this whole story in their heads about
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Erika Kirk and JD Vance hugging too much, and yes,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: JD and Usha were going to get divorced, and now
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: they're surprised that their ridiculous, absurd, stupid fantasy didn't work out.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: It's like we've created the fantasy and then are surprised
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: that it wasn't.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: So. I saw somebody else rude say, I can't remember
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: who it was, saying, oh, it never works to have
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: a baby to keep the marriage. Today. I think they're fine, guys.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I think they're fine, but you're right, this is a
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: this is sort of projected upon them, and they have
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: this bizarre idea of all conservative women that.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Like we're all one because they're like, she should be.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: A feminist, but she's not, so she must just be
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: led by him in some way, and it's so infantilizing
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and it's so gross, and I love I love the
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: idea that she's a willing participant in this world.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it works.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: That's how it works. Oh my gosh, she got married
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: and had kids.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: in touch with us at normally theepod at gmail dot com.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally