Latest / The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective / Divercial 001: Aj Vaughan & Randeep Purewal, MBA

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Divercial 001: Aj Vaughan & Randeep Purewal, MBA · The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective

0:02
All right, here we go. So we have a new segment that
0:05
I'm excited to start. We're going to call this diver
0:09
shil. Now, obviously, diversion is the
0:10
name of the brand, but I just felt that it was fitting has a
0:13
nice ring to it. I didn't think you need to get
0:15
too cute with it. So, for everyone, listening, I'm
0:18
excited to present and announce that we're going to start a new
0:21
segment called that virtual where it's going to be myself
0:24
and the founder and CEO of the of the amazing product.
0:27
And Company die, virtual randeep, who is also here, I
0:30
will allow her to do A brief intro and say hello, but this is
0:34
going to be an ongoing Series. So every now and again, probably
0:38
two to three days a week, you will hear myself or in deep, and
0:41
a solo structure, providing some thoughts inside two perspectives
0:45
at a high, as well as deep level.
0:47
And then, I believe we said, maybe do we say once or twice a
0:50
week? Or how many times we do?
0:52
You think we agree to roll this out?
0:54
Because I want to want to make it consistent for the listeners.
0:57
For sure. I think the key dance we're
1:00
aiming for is weekly. Right?
1:02
So, at least once a week randeep and I or maybe even bi-weekly.
1:07
Well, we'll keep you updated, but consistently, you will be
1:12
hearing from the both of us, on a 30 to 40 minute episode.
1:16
You know, breaking down diverse role as a product breaking down
1:20
the themes, and the values, and the perspectives that hold the
1:22
company. Upright, and we'll be breaking
1:24
down our thoughts in the DU, nice Pace overall, and this will
1:29
be fun because all those listening, you know, Excuse me,
1:32
that here at the e1b to Collective podcast, we cover a
1:36
lot of different things and I'm excited to be able to cover one
1:40
main core element. So without without further, you
1:44
know, delay, please let the world know again because I know
1:47
you came on the recap show but let the world again.
1:49
Know who you are. You are now officially a co-host
1:53
with in this podcast. And so please give us a full
1:56
breakdown who you are, which excited about and what we can
2:00
expect for Today Show. Amazing.
2:03
Well, thank you so much, Anthony, it is my absolute
2:06
pleasure to be here. This has been a bucket list item
2:10
for me for a while, so I appreciate the opportunity to
2:13
kind of get started working alongside with you.
2:17
So, as you mentioned, my name is Ryan deep and I'm the CEO and
2:20
founder of diver, shal actually just located north of the Border
2:25
in Toronto, but you and I met as we had a lot of, I would say
2:30
things in common, And we won't talk about the sports here, but
2:34
from a work perspective I think both you and I are really
2:36
focused on the future of work and I think that's going to be
2:39
such an exciting topic to continue to learn more and help,
2:43
you know, create more exposure and awareness for our listeners.
2:48
I agree. I agree and I'm very thankful
2:50
for, you know, the opportunity and then the partnership and the
2:55
again the the opportunity to present some more consistent
2:58
dialed in content. Because again, you know, it's
3:01
very rangy. So I guess I'll start this way.
3:05
What's top of mind for you in the dni space?
3:07
Now that you and I are partnered up, you know, we're working very
3:11
hard to to bring diverse role as a product to the market and
3:16
bring a lot of awareness around it, but Just as a overall theme
3:20
of the ni, what's the first thing that pops out to you?
3:23
What's the first thing top of mind?
3:24
And and we'll do a little bit of back and forth and we'll go from
3:27
there. Sure.
3:31
So I would say not only is it our, you know, tagline.
3:35
So for example, diverse shal helps organizations, build
3:39
inclusive, workplace. Cultures.
3:41
I also am a very systematic person.
3:43
So, I like to start with, you know, a methodical approach.
3:47
So when you look at di e IB, I think the first thing you need
3:50
to look at and understand is. Okay.
3:52
You know, you want to build an inclusive workplace.
3:55
Where do you start? What does that mean?
3:56
Why is it important? How do you begin?
3:58
So I think, you know, Creating that foundation and discussing
4:01
the essentials. I think that's kind of where I
4:03
go to and then, obviously, it will expand from there.
4:08
Well, let's start with one of the first Essentials, which what
4:10
do you think is one of the first Essentials as it pertains to
4:12
focusing on D, EI, and be right? I keep from, you know, at the
4:17
time. What do you think is in a
4:19
special essential there? Yep, I would say it.
4:22
That's an interchangeable academic.
4:27
So we can certainly work with them.
4:31
So, okay. So inclusive workplace for me.
4:34
What is the definition of it? It's an environment include
4:37
occurred. The attitudes actions and
4:39
behaviors of employees. So they can achieve their full
4:42
potential irrespective of their difference.
4:45
And that's why I say d IB, I think a lot of people
4:49
misconstrue what that means. And for example, I think people
4:54
jump to the conclusion and think d, e, IB is just about hiring
4:57
underrepresented talent. That is a core component of it,
5:01
but there's so much more. And what I always like to make
5:05
sure that people understand is that diversity and inclusion.
5:08
Asian are not mutually exclusive meaning you can have diversity
5:11
and diverse representation but if you don't have an inclusive,
5:15
workplace that is not going to be sustainable.
5:18
So the core thing, the very first thing you should need to
5:21
do is build that inclusive workplace.
5:24
And to do that, what you really need to do is understand what
5:27
your current state is. And, you know, you and I have
5:29
talked about this and I think this is something, everyone is
5:32
where of it's a journey. Every organization has a
5:35
different, you know, starting point.
5:36
So this is the part where you have to customize it but you'd
5:39
really need to know if you were to, you know, address current
5:43
state pulse check. What does that mean for your
5:46
organization and the best way to do that is to collect data?
5:50
Here's a fun question for you Is there an argument that can be
5:56
made that the eye in D EI, and B.
6:02
And you kind of just said it, but I want to double click into
6:05
it a little bit more. Is there an argument that can be
6:07
made that building inclusive, cultures and experiences, are
6:12
more important than any of the other acronyms or any or any of
6:15
the other best practices that that that support these
6:19
acronyms. But let me also dive to it to
6:22
another level not Only is it potentially more important, but
6:26
do you believe if an organization does not have a
6:29
diverse set of employees that if they're going to start any we're
6:34
before? They even potentially tap into
6:37
bringing in diverse backgrounds, or bringing in literally diverse
6:43
human beings from a gender or race perspective?
6:46
Do you believe at least starting with the eye is a decent place
6:51
to start, or where would the starting We be in your opinion.
6:55
If we were to try to play Devil's Advocate on, I don't
6:58
want to say the more important factor but a place that everyone
7:03
can start and a realistic manner.
7:05
Because in this last thing I'll say I believe a lot of people
7:09
tend to start on just the recruiting of diverse candidates
7:14
bringing in diverse folks, to join a diverse team, different,
7:19
genders different, backgrounds, different, different races.
7:24
But I also agree that the I building inclusive culture is
7:28
probably the hardest piece and can provide the highest KP.
7:32
You know, KP is the highest Roi in the highest impact.
7:36
In the most, the most dividends long-term.
7:39
So what are your thoughts on that hole right there?
7:42
Yeah, no I that's a fantastic question and I will a million
7:47
percent State. Again, yes, we help build
7:50
organization inclusive cultures for organizations.
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Because to me, That is the foundation because you cannot
7:57
have the others without the eye. And I think the the diverse
8:02
representation of course it's important but that's where the
8:05
data you have to look at your you know different geographies
8:09
as well. Certain places have you know
8:11
separate different types of representation but that's only
8:14
one dimension of diversity. Right.
8:16
What about diversity of age? What about?
8:19
You know, diversity from socioeconomic backgrounds and
8:23
You know, my personal favorite diversity of thought, which is
8:26
obviously very, very difficult to assess and measure but
8:28
nonetheless, like there's so many dimensions and I think to
8:31
your point people it's it's the one that's most visible.
8:35
So, you know inherently, we want to focus on that.
8:39
Absolutely. But the two need to work
8:42
together. And to me, I think the
8:45
inclusivity part is the one that will be most sustainable and
8:49
will help organizations in the long run, right?
8:52
So for example, you know, No, Gallup did a study on, you know,
8:57
inclusion and engagement Etc, and what they found was
9:00
globally, organizations are losing, you know, seven point
9:03
eight trillion dollars annually. Like that's a lot of money due
9:06
to disengagement. But if you just built an
9:08
inclusive culture, where people are engaged, they want to work
9:11
there. You know, the motivated and they
9:13
want to progress, like ching ching, like everyone wins.
9:17
So to me, it's a no-brainer. I totally agree.
9:22
I totally agree. So let's let's dive in even
9:24
deeper into the eye for a second.
9:26
So there's a couple different elements that I think of you
9:29
know, for me psychological safety is something that has
9:35
been a trend, trendy word a buzzword for many years, but I
9:40
think there's not enough leaders and organizations that actually
9:44
know how to do or build psychological safety bill.
9:49
Build inclusive cultures. So let me, let me dive in a
9:52
couple different rabbit holes. And let's see if you have any
9:54
thoughts, with the first area. I would probably go is and
9:59
actually, I, I tend to always go here and I was actually going to
10:03
go in a different direction, but I'll keep going with what I
10:05
usually do. I like to start and discuss on
10:08
the hiring side of things because I believe, it really
10:11
begins, or should begin on how you're bringing people into your
10:16
company into your culture, into your team.
10:19
Um, so do you have any thoughts inside perspectives on one as we
10:25
think about psychological safety, because everyone's
10:29
nervous during the interview process?
10:31
Typically, a lot of applicants are a little bit uncomfortable.
10:35
Typically they don't know anything about the company based
10:38
off of whatever. You know, I obviously didn't
10:39
know what they read online, or whether they read the JD
10:42
revocation is going to be. So, do you have any thoughts on
10:46
inclusivity, you know, baking in inclusive?
10:49
Until the hiring process and psychological safety on that
10:53
piece, first and foremost and it will kind of work our way into
10:56
the company. Do you have any macro thoughts
10:58
on that? Absolutely, I know I agree with
11:02
you to me like this is My Philosophy based on, you know,
11:06
my research and data and experiences that inequity in the
11:09
workplace is due to subjective hiring practices policies and
11:14
programs. So that is like literally the
11:17
root cause of the neck Oni But so, if you can eliminate some of
11:21
those systemic issues, barriers and biases.
11:24
Yeah, of course, you're going to have a more diverse and
11:25
inclusive workplace but easier said than done, right?
11:28
So, to your plan once again, sorry, I'm very methodical.
11:31
So, I do think about the candidate Journey.
11:33
So, first thing first recruitment, what does that
11:35
process look like right? 100%?
11:39
It should be more skill-based hiring that organizations are
11:42
moving towards, which will be the incorporation of assessing
11:46
certain skills rather than experience or Education.
11:50
Because a lot of people just face these systemic barriers all
11:54
the time. And so they don't even pass the
11:56
very first screening but they could be amazing candidates,
11:59
right? Actually, today, I was just kind
12:01
of talking to someone about, you know, in Canada, for example,
12:06
and I mean everywhere. But there's a lot of
12:08
international students that come and hear.
12:10
They actually really struggle to get those same Equitable
12:13
opportunities for career advancement and so, they're
12:15
super frustrated. So, we're having a little focus
12:17
group and I'm just like, I felt really bad.
12:19
Because they're overqualified, but it's not their fault, it's
12:23
the system. So go employers and recruiters
12:26
need to move more towards skill, based hiring to make it more
12:30
inclusive and then when you get in that process to make sure you
12:33
have multiple data points, right?
12:35
You know what is the makeup of your hiring committee?
12:37
You know, are you using, you know, psychometric assessments
12:40
or you giving a skills challenge or a cognitive assessment?
12:43
So, at least you can have different data points and use
12:46
like, kind of a matrices or scorecard to Eight candidates
12:50
because you know we know it's human to have those biases but
12:54
having this data and scorecard and measurement is going to help
12:58
eliminate some of that. So at the end of the day, what
13:00
everyone wants is the best person for the job and that's
13:04
the most effective way to achieve that.
13:08
I couldn't agree more and I'll add one element that I for a
13:12
fact. Do not see a lot of companies
13:14
do. But I know personally that it
13:17
works very well and it can really help from a psychological
13:21
safety perspective. Make people feel more
13:23
comfortable during the hiring recruiting process.
13:25
So let's say they do everything that you just outlined and they
13:29
find that the applicant is not a great fit.
13:32
Right for that particular role, something I say all the time to
13:37
do it, School safety to make inclusivity into into into the
13:42
hiring recruitment process. Teacher, recruiters, teacher,
13:46
hiring managers how to number one, understand the skills
13:53
needed for multiple took for multiple roles that may be
13:59
similar to the role that they're trying to place number one.
14:03
Like make sure you're hiring, people actually know about the
14:05
skills that are needed for roles that are similar enough, right?
14:09
A lot of this happens, a lot of this tends to happen on the
14:12
Partnerships and sales side of things.
14:13
Anytime you're trying to hire someone to join and lead your
14:16
sales team and or your partnership team.
14:18
Because, usually, a lot of similar skill sets that are
14:21
needed for, for both, for both sales roles, and, or
14:24
Partnerships rolls, right? And so for me, my first thought
14:28
is always understand what those similar skill sets are,
14:31
secondly, make sure you're hiring people have enough
14:34
bandwidth and enough decision-making ability to say,
14:37
you know. Andrew as an example, I don't
14:40
think you're a great fit for this particular role, but
14:44
because I care about making you feel comfortable because I want
14:46
you to be, you know, feel psychological safety because I
14:49
want you to have a great experience because I care about
14:51
employer branding because I care about you as a human being
14:54
period. And because I respect your
14:57
diverse background and how you got here and your skills from
15:00
what I've learned about you. I think you would actually be a
15:02
better fit for this particular role.
15:05
I've actually done the hard work for you.
15:07
You, I reached out to the hiring managers and the team on that
15:11
that role already. I've already given them, your
15:13
CV. I probably let them know about
15:15
you and we've already pushed you into the same stage of the round
15:18
that you're on. Now, for that particular role,
15:21
good luck to you, the notes are already in the system.
15:25
Reach out to me. If you have any questions inside
15:27
stalls perspective but I wish you the best that that is like,
15:32
I don't think too many people understand.
15:35
How happy, how comfortable, how safe, how inclusive?
15:39
How, how how beneficial and experience like that would be,
15:43
do you have any brief thoughts on that?
15:46
Yeah. No, for sure, you know, it
15:49
always comes down to proper skill, based hiring.
15:52
So, your example that you provided is exactly that, if you
15:55
can identify the skills that this candidate has and match
15:58
them with a position that requires the skills.
16:01
Once again, we're not talking about experience, we're not
16:03
talking about education skills. Skills you are going to have
16:06
much better success. Not only to fill those vacancies
16:10
or jobs that promote people but it creates you know a much more
16:15
inclusive experience for the candidate as well to your point
16:20
100%. So then let's walk in let's walk
16:24
a little further so now someone's heart, let's talk
16:26
about onboarding this is there anything from a.d.d. e&i
16:29
perspective that resonates during the onboarding process
16:33
for you? Yeah.
16:34
Absolutely. I would encourage every
16:37
organization to incorporate D, IB into the onboarding, OR at
16:42
least, like part of the first 30 day plan, right?
16:46
Because, you know, especially the last couple years,
16:48
obviously, we saw an explosion of like remote work and
16:51
distributed teams so you don't get to like walk into the office
16:55
like meet people and or like, you know, go for a coffee with
16:59
someone and get to understand experience that.
17:02
So when you're doing it remotely, how do you get a
17:03
Feeling? Feel for that, right?
17:05
And so, it's really important for organizations to not only
17:09
talk about, generals like culture Tendencies, but how your
17:13
organization is creating an inclusive and safe space, do
17:18
that sooner rather than later, and you're going to see
17:20
dividends on the new employees. And I love that, and I'll give a
17:25
quick little Nuance, little tactic here, and you'll probably
17:29
start to notice this trend What I've Done.
17:31
Throughout my career, as I've found little tiny tactics.
17:34
Tiny tools that you can do little tweaks that you can do to
17:37
each phase of the process to make things more inclusive, I've
17:42
helped a lot of companies as it pertains to the onboarding
17:46
process put in place a prime trying to remember what I called
17:50
it. Because I did this when I was in
17:52
turn has led to people. Essentially, what I put in
17:54
place, was that called it. All right, let's move beyond the
17:59
name. Let me just focus on what what
18:01
it actually did. I stopped so stuck on what it's
18:05
called. But anyway what we did is when
18:08
we were when we were nearing the end of the two weeks or three
18:12
weeks or four weeks or one, you know, one day or one month, or
18:16
one week, onboarding phase. What I would always put in
18:20
places, I would provide two different forms of
18:24
communication. We would do a one-on-one with
18:27
would have the hiring manager /, the supervisor, the manager of
18:31
that team that apartment and, or that or that employee We would
18:35
we would set up a one-on-one conversation.
18:37
We would also provide and administer a survey and and
18:42
within both of those Communications, we will look to
18:45
extract. And what we will look to seek is
18:48
what they want. An extension.
18:50
Do you need an extension do? So there are all these different
18:53
categories. Do you feel like you are
18:54
comfortable with the the subject matter expertise the knowledge,
18:59
the workflow, do you have a clear understanding of your
19:02
decision-making bandwidth? You have a clear understanding
19:04
Ending of what your next 90 days are going to look like.
19:07
Do you feel like you've talked to and connected with enough
19:09
people that you may be collaborating with on a
19:12
consistent basis? Do you feel like you're your own
19:16
boarding manager and your fellow team members that help you
19:19
throughout the onboarding process?
19:20
Do you believe they understand your communication style enough?
19:24
Do you think they understand how you work best enough, just do
19:27
you feel comfortable moving from the Old 41 boarding, Phase 2 in
19:32
the game? Right?
19:33
Do you feel like you've moved? From from my sports listeners
19:35
out here. Do you feel like you move from
19:37
training camp or practice to being able to actually, as me
19:42
being a leader? Feel comfortable to plug you
19:44
into the game and get some good minutes from you, right?
19:47
Like it has that process been productive for you.
19:51
Do you feel like you are ready and I don't believe that enough
19:54
companies ask or give that that moment of an extension.
20:00
And I believe that is a small little nuances, small, little
20:03
tweak that It can be implemented in a ton of onboarding
20:06
processes. Where if you just ask that
20:08
question and you go about the 10-12, understand the contextual
20:11
nuances behind it, it can drive a lot of psychological safety
20:15
again and make people feel super comfortable, to be able to be
20:19
more productive in the first 90 days.
20:21
What are your thoughts there? Ya know.
20:23
I once again, I'm like, there's a trend like, obviously you and
20:27
I are very much aligned and I couldn't agree with you more,
20:30
but also the other time, done saying that there is a gap.
20:34
To our knowledge of a lot of companies addressing a lot of
20:37
these issues, right. I will just say really quickly
20:40
to and you and I talked about this is you know, part of a
20:43
tool. And once again the actual name
20:46
of documents or you know assignment of the actual
20:52
exercise is not as relevant. But for example in our tool will
20:57
have like a little bit of a dossier where the every employee
21:00
gets to put like collection of a lot of aspects pertaining to
21:04
Their talent profile on one of them is like an inclusive Ade
21:06
assessment and that covers, you know, how you like to work.
21:10
What are your preferences? You know, how you like to
21:12
communicate what you were mentioning?
21:14
And so when you have a place where not only is that
21:17
documented, but new employees will kick feel much more
21:20
comfortable sharing that because a lot of times you know just the
21:24
expectations are usually more one-sided but we're from a safe
21:29
space of inclusion. Understanding everyone is so
21:32
different. It's better to And how you can
21:34
put those employees in the optimal positions for success.
21:39
100, 100, 100 thousand percent. All right.
21:43
So now their own boarded. Their a part of their team.
21:47
I'm going to go in this direction, so I'm going to give
21:49
you a scenario here. There isn't the new hires a part
21:53
of the team. They've been there for three
21:55
weeks and they're noticing a couple different elements.
21:59
They're noticing the way decisions are made, they're
22:02
noticing their own person. The workflow that is assigned to
22:06
them and They're noticing, they're just noticing some, some
22:13
some Innovations some tweaks that they could bring to the
22:15
team, but they're but they're just not too sure if the tweaks
22:20
in a decision-making Department tweaks in the workflow
22:23
department and tweaks in just bringing some new ideas and some
22:27
fresh perspective, to the team is, welcome is warranted.
22:31
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, this is why I would say
22:34
everyone should take our inclusive leadership workshop
22:39
and assessment because any people manager needs to be
22:42
open-minded and very welcome for feedback in proving to your
22:46
point workflows or ways of doing things.
22:49
And I think for so long, you know, sorry Boomers.
22:52
But they've created this culture where it's just like, just do
22:55
what you're told and stay in your lane, but that just doesn't
22:58
work anymore. And, you know, and without going
23:01
too deep for a variety. Idea of reasons, but one of them
23:04
just being the shifting demographics, right?
23:07
Millennials and gen Z Already make up 50% of it.
23:10
So we prefer to work a different way.
23:13
And we'd like to, you know, provide feedback and look at
23:16
things of doing things better just because they worked in the
23:19
past, doesn't mean it works in today or moving forward.
23:22
So, I would say, for people, leaders out there, you know,
23:26
create that open safe space. I did it all the time and to be
23:30
honest, like, I think, You'd be surprised how creative and
23:34
Innovative, even the newest three-week team member can be.
23:40
And frankly, I really believe that it should be something that
23:43
is baked into the operational Fabrics of the leaders job.
23:47
And so I have done at the end of month.
23:51
One at the end of the day at the end of month, one at the end of
23:54
the first quarter and after the six-month Mark, I always push
23:58
leaders to say, go to your newest hires and ask them a
24:03
series of questions that may fall in line with.
24:06
Again, how decisions are made any new Years.
24:10
They want to bring to the table, anything that they're seeing
24:12
that can be potentially tweaked, any processes that they feel can
24:16
be recreated to be more productive, more seamless, more
24:20
efficient. You got to remember, these are
24:22
new eyes and new ears in your business.
24:24
You have to appreciate that, you have to respect that.
24:28
All right, so as we as we near to the end of this and we can
24:32
definitely keep chatting for a bit of time, what are some other
24:34
things that come to mind for you as a pertains to this path that
24:38
were walking or just did? He and I in general, right, we
24:42
touched recruiting, we've touched, the onboarding, we
24:45
touch the first. Let's call it month to 90 days.
24:49
Now, they're part of the team for a bit of time and or just
24:52
dni thoughts in general, sure. So, let me unpack this in two
24:57
ways. One will finish the talent
24:59
Journey that were on from a candidate lends perspective.
25:03
So and then I will kind of end was talking about the checklist.
25:08
So we talked about recruitment, We talked about onboarding once
25:11
you're an employee, okay, how can you build that inclusive,
25:15
safe space and as well as you know, have an unbiased and
25:20
data-driven process. So people all have the
25:23
opportunity to progress within their careers, right?
25:25
And we talked about the last episode but career mapping is
25:28
supercritical, and in my opinion there's no timeline.
25:32
You can do it as early as the first month you can do it as
25:35
regular Cadence depends. Right?
25:37
Everyone has different motivational drivers.
25:39
So I think you should let the employees or candidates decide
25:43
and understand what their goals and Ambitions are and how, you
25:46
know, you can work together and build out a plan for that.
25:50
And I think, once again, it's like, disregard the old-school
25:53
proficiency continuum's, right, instead.
25:56
Focus on the skills that they want to develop and how we can
26:00
put them in those positions, and give them, you know, additional
26:03
opportunities. Like one thing, if someone
26:05
wanted to pursue leadership, I always used to give them like
26:08
tasks and exercises. And then I'll give them an
26:10
opportunity to run a segment in the team meeting right?
26:13
Allows them to build some of those foundational skills, get
26:16
some practice and it allows me to be able to give them, you
26:20
know, feedback and coaching and pointers.
26:23
And I'll tell you this too if someone has the desire to turn,
26:27
go into a leadership position or going to any other position
26:30
again from a dni lens from a psychological safety lens.
26:35
And to operationalize, it's on behalf of the organization
26:39
supervisors, and managers and HR teams and see, sweet should be
26:44
all working together to actually authentically realistically and
26:49
accurately understand the The potential roadmap to to take a
26:56
new hire, a six-month employ a year employee to Career
27:00
progression. You should know, down to the T.
27:03
Here's what we need, those folks to learn.
27:05
Here's what we need those folks to do, here's what we need those
27:07
folks to understand here are the opportunities for Learning and
27:11
Development perspective. Excuse me, here are the
27:14
perspectives. And I'm here, the opportunities
27:16
from a, from a coaching perspective.
27:19
Here, are the opportunities for them to join other.
27:22
In gain different perspectives and insights and experiences.
27:26
And you should be able to provide that plan very
27:29
concretely, very directly to your people.
27:33
And I remember listening to a podcast Years Ago by Keith
27:37
Verizon and he was saying, we need to start Shifting the
27:40
conversation of an IDP plan or a pit plan.
27:44
It's not an individual development plan, to get someone
27:46
to level up the productivity, where is the IDP plan for, for
27:51
those employees? He's to build psychological
27:53
safety. So they actually know the clear
27:56
path or roadmap to be able to have success.
27:58
Where's that map? Where is that plan?
28:00
So that an employee in the privacy of their own home and
28:04
ask your kind of gearing up for a new work week.
28:07
They can really sit down and say, okay, over the next 18
28:10
months. If I accomplish these 10 or
28:12
these 15 things, I know for a fact that the end of that time,
28:16
I'm going to have a new job, a new role, more money, more
28:19
responsibility, new relationships, a noodle Part B.
28:22
Whatever the case is going to be before we exit?
28:26
Do you have any thoughts on that?
28:28
And then what are your other macro General thoughts that you
28:30
want to share before we add before we end this podcast?
28:34
Yeah. No, of course I was like, I am
28:36
like obsessed probably like borderlines, like crazy about
28:40
Talent. It's just something that is just
28:42
so deeply ingrained in My DNA. So I could go on and on forever
28:47
about this but I think, you know, we'll save it for the next
28:50
episode and I think of Part of it is just because I honestly
28:54
like never got real tangible career advice in my life.
28:58
So I made it my mission to be able to learn as much as I can
29:02
and so we can pay it forward so well, I'll leave that at the
29:06
time of peace and in regards to what we started out with from
29:10
like workplace culture. So as I mentioned, you know,
29:13
diver show helps organizations build inclusive, workplace,
29:16
cultures. So we have a checklist and we
29:19
posted on social media. So follow us on LinkedIn.
29:21
If you want to learn More. But basically, 10 things, first
29:25
things, first, established, current state, collect, and
29:29
analyze the data. Next build out, your strategic
29:32
action plan, and then you want to be able to ensure its
29:36
measurable. So set those goals objectives,
29:39
kpis, okay? Ours, whatever that may be.
29:41
And then you also need the Learning and Development and
29:46
training and workshops that we reference for example, inclusive
29:49
leadership Workshop, right? That every people leader should
29:52
Hundred percent be able to do something like that, and then
29:56
there's obviously the prg so employee resource groups, and
30:01
Affinity groups to create those additional.
30:03
Safe, psychological spaces and help understand and provide
30:07
suggestions and feedback to improve culture and processes at
30:11
the workplace. I think there's an element of
30:15
leadership accountability as well.
30:17
So we always recommend every organization to have like an
30:20
inclusivity counsel that conforms Overseas and champions
30:23
to eib talked about career mapping and talent and
30:27
recruitment all the way to retention.
30:29
You know, I think stay interviews.
30:31
Like, I don't like the terminology but it should
30:34
literally be done, like, in a formalized way, you know, every
30:38
quarter to be honest. And I think I did it all the
30:41
time, but like more informal, right?
30:43
But I think at least you can prevent or address those
30:47
concerns before the departure because we all know it costs way
30:50
more to replace an existing. Me than it does to hire anyone
30:53
and then Lassen. No, no, go ahead.
30:56
Oh, sorry. And then last one was just
30:58
around governance. Yes, boring stuff.
31:00
But important stuff. So, you know, we mentioned suit
31:03
from our onboarding perspective, you know, there should be a div
31:07
policy program. Do you have a procedure to
31:10
address or report discrimination or harassment?
31:13
Like these are all the things that everyone should know right
31:16
off the bat and where do you go? Where do you find it?
31:19
And so happy to say these are all items that will be Part of
31:22
our tool, 100%. I love this.
31:26
This is going to be fun each week that we do this and my last
31:30
thought on the stay interview. That's another thing that I was
31:33
really big on and I'll speak about it from a really tactical
31:37
lens. This really needs to be
31:40
operationalized. We need to hold our first one.
31:43
We need to teach our managers how to have and hold those,
31:47
they'll stay in a few conversations.
31:49
We need to help our hiring man hiring managers.
31:52
We need Help our supervisors, our leaders, our managers to
31:55
really understand the categories in the questions that should be
31:58
asked. I mean, big fan of having those
32:00
questions like literally having them not surveys.
32:04
I actually want there to be a 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 minute
32:07
conversation. I don't care if your Amazon and
32:10
I don't care if you're a small business, that less than 50
32:13
employees. You if you're running a small
32:16
team of 8 or 12 or 15, if you need to execute all of those
32:21
stay interviews across Lost by the end of the quarter, you have
32:25
30 minutes per person, you have 45 minutes per person, you had
32:29
25 minutes per person. The biggest pet peeve I have,
32:32
and this may be a little bit contradictory to divert shal,
32:36
but I hope it doesn't. So, please don't take any
32:38
offense, because it's really not.
32:40
But my biggest thing is we cannot heavily just rely on
32:43
product. We need to, also remember that
32:46
product is here to support to give us data to measure and to
32:50
make more accurate decisions. Asians and and and and to help
32:55
sustain and Elevate the relationship that we can build
32:58
with the human on a human to human level and I'm seeing too
33:01
many companies, use product as a replacement of the human
33:05
interaction and I just don't think that's a smart idea.
33:08
Especially not from a stay interview perspective.
33:11
So, definitely run the surveys, be able to track and analyze the
33:15
data at scale. But teacher managers to have
33:18
conversations with each of the seven, to twelve, to Fifteen to
33:22
25 people that are reporting directly to them, take that
33:26
data, pass it on to the, to the HR team and start, making some
33:30
really strategic decisions looking at the trends.
33:33
But also, you know, brainstorming and getting
33:36
creative for a, for an employee of one.
33:39
So any last thoughts on that little random them will will
33:42
exit here. Sir, I would say you nailed it.
33:46
The only other caveat I wanted to dress.
33:48
Yeah. Product.
33:49
That's I think what you say is fair but I Ink.
33:52
It also is a general technology aspect.
33:55
And in our defense, I'm going to say, you know, you need to have
33:59
a really strong emotional social intelligence and intuition to be
34:03
able to manage people. So if the person developing that
34:07
technology doesn't have that background, that's why that
34:10
technology isn't going to be as reliable, right?
34:14
That's the first thing and then, secondly, I think it can also be
34:16
supplementary, right? And complementary but I agree
34:20
with you, there's nothing beats. Typical one-on-one conversation
34:25
with your team members where you just shoot the shit and just
34:28
check in and see how they're doing. 100%, thank you so much
34:33
and I think this is going to be the wrap of the the first
34:37
episode of die virtual any, any last thoughts, and he
34:40
perspectives, and he the exiting words that was awesome.
34:45
Thank you so much. Once again, I look forward to
34:47
continuing the dialogue and, you know, enjoy listening to our
34:51
content. And obviously, if there's
34:53
certain topics that people want to hear about, we would love to
34:56
know. Perfect.
34:57
Perfect.