Latest / Beheaded / The Nightclub Murderess | Ruth Ellis

Transcript

The Nightclub Murderess | Ruth Ellis · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to season five, episode four.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: We are in the season of Holiday Small Talk.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we love Holiday Small Talk.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: The circle back until the New Year talk?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what you're talking about?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, how's the holiday planning going?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: What do you got going on for the holidays?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you know, just hosting lots of people and the travel and the family and the.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: Holiday shopping.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I I don't have my Christmas decorations up yet.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Every single team meeting.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Gets a little stale after a while.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Especially like, you know, no offense to those of us that are more established in life.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, oh, we are you referring to us?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're established?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not established.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel established.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying, okay, and this is not in reference to you or me, or any one of our listeners, but you have those few people you talk to where they might be a bit, I don't want to say older, but set in their ways, like you've talked to them before at holiday time and you know exactly what they do and their traditions.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's called tradition.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like how many times do you have to hear them be like, oh, I have to get the turkey?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we've already complained about this one Barb.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Barb, we've been last year.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it'd give me a fresh complaint every year.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: But when Debbie talks about how her husband hasn't put up Christmas lights on the house again, like you're kind of like, I remember this conversation from last year and the year before.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Recurring event.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: So at least you and I, we might be quote unquote kind of established, but we like have fresh problems every year.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had this beautiful little light on my doorstep, which you noticed when you came in.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Burnt out yesterday.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know it was a burnt out.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was cute, little like Charles Dickensy looking little light.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that though.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's cute.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Burnt out.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of freaked out and then it didn't burn out.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my holiday problem.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: What are my holiday problems?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I know my holiday problems.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Barb.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is a recurring holiday problem.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember if I've talked about this before, which is even more embarrassing if I have.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Alzheimer's.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: What can you do?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Alzheimer's.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I said.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, when people call it old timers.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Why didn't they?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Some people say old timers.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of, you know, when I drink wine, mumble.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Old timers.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'll enunciate in the future.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we don't have kids, my husband and I.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Or me.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but we do have nieces and nephews.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yay.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's they're all on my husband's side of the family.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: And whenever we come to California, which we will be this year, when we come back home and we see the family, that's when we do all the gifts for the kids.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: We we in my husband's words, he likes to keep them on their toes.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Where like they don't know if it's gonna be a year of good gifts or bad gifts.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's gonna shoot a pistol at their feet and see if they dance, kind of thing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: No, like one year it might be like gaming consoles for everybody and like a huge Christmas, and they think it's like, oh my gosh, you guys are the best.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next year he'll be like, Here's a beanie.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, What the hell is this?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you they never know if it's gonna be a good year or a bad year, or if we're if we don't show up, we they don't get gifts at all.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like we just like to keep them on their toes.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: That reminds me of the movie Four Christmases when the boy opens like the toy from his uncle and he's like, an Xbox, and they're like, Oh, you didn't hear about the ten dollar cap.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then he opens the gift from his dad and he's like, a flashlight, that's it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: You are that is what it is.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's pretty much what it is.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I always have to laugh because I have to explain to my husband, especially when there's multiple kids, you can't you have to be consistent, you have to be fair.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: True, that's the biggest thing, and he sees like nothing wrong with like getting one kid like a what do you call it?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Not I VR, what's the yeah, like the VR, like a VR system, and then the other kid gets like a backpack.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like he sees nothing wrong with that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I also have to teach him, like, no, it should either be like a big family gift or yeah, so we're in that mode.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to remember that kids see things based on like number of things and size of things, size makes a difference, right?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: So because like just because you're an adult and you're like, maybe this backpack is the same value of whatever electronic thing, the kids don't see it that way.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I was talking to a friend the other day who was literally buying a bunch of bags of like Japanese Lay's chips or something, and I was like, What are these?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Oh, it's a gift from my niece.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, You're giving her a bunch of bags of chips, and that's great.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, he's like, Well, she's super young, and to her, like, all that matters is counting gifts.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm getting her brother like a few different gifts.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: She's super young, I don't know what she wants, but as long as she has four gifts, she sees it as equal.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's you see, it and especially with the age, and as it's just really hard, I think, as an aunt and uncle, when we don't have kids, like we don't know what's cool anymore.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: What's cool, we don't know what matters.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really bad at knowing at what age of progression are they into certain things.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and everyone just tells me like technology, gadgets, electronics.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, that stuff is freaking expensive.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where are the days of I don't know, you get them a cabbage patch kid doll and they're happy with it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Those days we want like the we had the moderately priced Legos when we were growing up, you know?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're so expensive now.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Legos are so freaking expensive.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: My sister, who's not that much younger than me, well, kind of, but she still likes Legos, and so I still buy her Legos.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh my god, I can't even afford a decent Lego set because the gap is like you're either paying$30 for a Lego set this big or you're paying$400 for a Lego set this big.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, and I'm using hands.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: I did see a funny video.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't know about funny, maybe scary and sad is a better word for it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: Where they were comparing the bag of groceries from home alone.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was$19.72, if we can remember, when he went and he bought his bags of groceries.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's like milk, eggs, the basics, fabric softener, uh, army men.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like$19.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: 20 bucks.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then they compared it to 2022, and it actually was comparable with inflation.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: I actually had a weird moment like that the other day where I keep very like specific email folders.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a weirdo.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I have one email folder that's like receipts, and it's meant to be like important receipts that I actually might need in the future.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: But groceries?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, but well, I was gonna say, I get in the habit of putting tr like stupid receipts in there.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's only supposed to be for like receipts I might actually need to need to reference.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I went through it the other day and I saw an Uber receipt from 2015.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, what was it, three dollars?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Five dollars for this Uber.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you have a receipt for Uber?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that virtual?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, no, no, it wasn't a physical receipt.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying it was it was an email folder.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was an email folder.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, funny that you have that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, why A, why would I keep this and not delete it immediately?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: But B, the fact that it was a five dollar Uber ride.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it'd be 15.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: I looked at it, I was like, and it was like, you know, it wasn't long, it was a 10-minute ride, whatever, a few miles.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, these days that would be 20 bucks easily.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: But what I was going out with this video where it was showing the comparisons.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2022, they calculated how much the groceries would have been, but it it doubled in price, but the salary and inflation also doubled in price, so it made sense.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, okay, well, the annual household income back in 1990, whatever was it was like 40,000.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's 80,000, so everything has kind of doubled.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: But then they compared from 2022 to 2023, and it was just like cringy.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I bet it was like 150 bucks.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was more, it was it was double the price almost in groceries, but the income stayed the same.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, that's it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Which is exactly where we are right now.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: So happy 2023, everybody.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe 2024 will be different.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: Just 2024 is gonna be our year.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think it will change, but we can try, we can hope, we can listen to gory stories of the past to make ourselves feel better.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Can talk about executions and murder and crime to make us feel a little bit better about our own lives.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell people I love doing this and I love listening back to our episodes because it reminds you of like how petty your day-to-day problems are.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Petty?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say momentous.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: How much we've grown over the years.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're great.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying it puts it in perspective when you talk about somebody who's going to the scaffold in a few days versus us having to deal with like eggs are expensive.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Eggs are expensive.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: They are, but you know, pick your poison.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to go to the scaffold?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Take me to the scaffold.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: $8 for eggs.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: She's like scaffold all day, please.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Also, look how cute these glasses are.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you're on our YouTube, look how cute these are.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I bought these, I believe, at something that rhymes with schmoldfarket.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Schmollifarket.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they're super cute, kind of tacky, like Our Lady of the Evening.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're a little bit 1950s-ish.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: They remind me of uh the graduate, like Mrs.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Robinson.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: They are little Mrs.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: Robinson.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: We've got some like blown glass cheetah print vessels.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Vessels.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're like thick glass, yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds oh now we're doing more of the weird.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you love that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Stop.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think our most recent execution we've ever done on the show.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: He rhymes with Smooshalini.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: We can't say his name.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: We can't say his name because cancelled again.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: We were banned off of social media like three times in a row for quote unquote promoting fascism.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: We literally had to contact a friend we knew at Instagram to like get us free instated.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we can't say Frucialini on this podcast.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Or any type of smashish type of political whatever.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: We are never promoting that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: We are just sharing history.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: So he used to have been the most recent one.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have him in your notes?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: No member, I told you.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: We talked about this.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Neither of us can find our notes on it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Still can't reason.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: Figure it out.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you guys know, if you're a seasoned executionado, you know Elizabeth Black has only used one notebook the entire series.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no Mussolini in my notes.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to remember the night that we recorded that there must have been something going on where we like.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: You were at your old house.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Did we use other notebooks or something?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like we used one notebook.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: But maybe you didn't have that notebook with you.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: See, I kind of switch around and sometimes I don't have it, so I like write on whatever I can find.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry if you hear the sounds of me flipping through pages, but I have everything else though.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I have William Wallace, I have Socrates, I have Elizabeth Barton.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's super weird.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Everything about that episode basically got deleted.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: The episode exists.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Everything on social media about it is gone.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: They wouldn't let me put it back up.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And my physical notes are somehow gone.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know how the physical notes are gone.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a spy in our friend circle, and I should probably, it probably rhymes with Smolena.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna blame the Russian chick.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: See season one, episode five.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: But we can move on.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was okay.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: The reason I was bringing this up is I think that episode was probably the most current execution we've ever talked about.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Which was right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which was 1943, I want to say.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um but tonight we have even a more recent one.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're pushing we're pushing it.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And just to start with the beginning in mind, start with the end in mind.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's better.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: 1955 is when she was executed, which is the same year Disneyland was opened.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is very recent.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is modern era.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: Elizabeth said she.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: We haven't had one female this whole season.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: We've always been very female heavy.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like last season they were almost all women.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: We did a lot of women in the world.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: We did a lot of women.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Women get executed all the time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's this whole like persona that men are the only one who gets no women are executed just as much.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're biodesses.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but this one is a female 1950s execution.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Super, super crazy lady.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want to call her cool, but she might have actually just been crazy.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: I can't tell.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's something about women in the 50s and and prior where even if they were super trashy, boy, we got a little puppy again.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: He's a puppy.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, even though they seemed like their story may seem trashy where you're like Lady of the Night.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like if this was someone nowadays, like I can already pick a very colorful type of appearance, maybe rugged or a little rugged around the edges.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: But women back in the 50s, even if they were a little bit more on the rugged side, they were very Stepford wives.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: They still had the standard like dresses and pretty makeup and the hair and the pins and all of that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, we've we've got a lady who is a little bit scandalous.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Ruth Ellis.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: And Ruth Ellis is such a juicy story.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is a story where we know a lot about her early life because it is recent.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: We know a lot about how she came to be, who she was, and again, we don't want to give too much away, but obviously it ends in an execution, so she wasn't a good girl.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: In the 50s.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: In the 50s.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we're just gonna jump right into it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: But this is taking place in a place called Rule Devonshire of Wales.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the city that we're in.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And Ruth Nielsen was born there in October 9th, excuse me, on October 9th, 1926.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: She was from a kind of large family.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: She was the fifth of six children.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when she was young, they ended up moving to a different part of town.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was in Hampshire, England, uh, with her family.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: So her mother was this woman named Bertha Gothels, who was essentially a Belgian like war refugee, and her father, Arthur Hernby.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hornby.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Hornby.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Hornby, just remember that.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Hornby.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And he was a cellist, he was like a musician.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So they kind of had to move around according to whatever jobs he got, like as a musician, and he was from Manchester.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um, Bertha and Arthur, they were married in 1920.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Ruth was born in 1926, so they pretty much had like one kid a year uh while they were married.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Arthur had a brother named Charles.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: So Charles was actually killed when Ruth was only two in this weird accident where like his bicycle collided with a steam wagon, which I'm sorry, what's a steam wagon?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: What's that a train?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: What's a steam wagon?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Was that is that code for train?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you're British and you know what steam wagon is, let us know because I don't know what that means.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Steam wagon.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: He was such a car at the time.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Motor motocall.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: The motocall.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are, referencing Mr.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Toad again.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but so so apparently his behavior, Arthur's behavior behavior, like radically changed after this accident.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so what does he do?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you start to be abusive and violent.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point in their like family life, everything had been peaceful, but with this tragic accident, all of a sudden he becomes very physically and sexually pretty abusive towards his wife and children.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Maya.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: That is not an excuse.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm obviously not.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Just because you very sad, I get it, your twin brother is tragically killed.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: That is no cop-out to start sexually abusing your family.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's really weird.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I never understand people that turn towards the people that should trust them the most and they should trust the most.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: I did tell Elizabeth, I'm like, you're gonna do the rapey parts of this.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not to spoil it, it gets pretty rapey.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's ha ha ha ha ha ha.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, we're no, but it's very triggering.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna talk about a lot of gross, incestuous, rapey things.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry in advance.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of our favorite, yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Trigger warnings for this whole episode.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's the 1950s.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: There were no trigger warnings back then, weird shit just happened.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So Arthur at this point starts to again become very abusive.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, and and Bertha's still there, like his wife is still there.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: She's seeing all of this take place, and she's also taking zero action.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, as much as he's a bad guy, like she's also a bad person for not like stepping in or doing anything, and maybe he was just taking it out on her too, so she had nothing to do.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just it's wrong on both parents, like, just obviously more on him because he's doing it, but she didn't do anything either.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: I do just feel like it's sad being in that era that women didn't really have all the resources and the help that they needed to be able to ask for help, or like, where would she go?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: She had no money of her own, she had six children.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she knew she's a war refugee.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's a war refugee, she's from Belgium.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I yes, I think that her just doing nothing is an issue.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I also have to, I think we have to remember the perspective of the times that women just kind of kept their head down and accepted things because there was no like charity to run to, I suppose, to help with this and like Yeah, no, resources are a good word because there really is nowhere to go at this point.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like you're in a bad situation, maybe you try to talk with neighbors or other females that you feel comfortable around, but guess what?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're probably in similar situations where their husbands are either gone or abusive or whatever, and they're just like, hey, like join the club, deal with it, you know, shouldn't have.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just so sad because she was probably weighing out her options.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Do I want to stay here in a very unsafe home, but we have a roof over our head and we have food, or do I take all my kids and put them on the streets?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's crazy to think just how different any of our actions would be had we just access to the right resources.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I hate to say that, but that's transcendent through time, you know, whether we're talking about tutor era or nowadays, like anytime you're talking about like the right schools, the right like network, you know, the right uh decisions, like you know, it's like it's just this ongoing struggle of like, hey, like sometimes you're born in tough situations and it's not that easy to get out of.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, poor Bertha.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Arthur's a weirdo.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: So Arthur Arthur starts sexually molesting uh Ruth's older sister, Muriel.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Muriel.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Muriel.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So Muriel conceives a child of his when she's 14.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: I told you trigger warning, really gross.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So she becomes pregnant at 14 with her dad's kid.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Awful.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And she doesn't know what to do, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like she literally just like has this child.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: The police, even at for a time, like they take Arthur, they question him, and then he's just released, like he just gets off, you know.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: So gross.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so the family just accepts this situation and they just raise the new baby as another sibling.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, we already have six kids, what's one more?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, here's another child.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: So they just all kind of sweep it under the rug, like there's just another baby in the family, it's fine.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So poor Muriel like has to have this existence, but once she hits puberty and she matures, like he kind of loses interest in Muriel and he turns it's self-that's gross, that's super gross.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: All the time.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: I read that too, and I was like, Okay, I'm sorry.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's what turns you off now.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Clearly, he just wants very young girls, it's really gross.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: So Ruth is the next youngest daughter.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: So once Muriel's out of the picture, he starts turning his attention towards Ruth, who's our lady of the evening, and he's like, ah, Ruth, like, and she at least has a little bit more of a backbone where she's like, Absolutely not.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I am not letting you do what you did, like to me, you know, or yeah, to me that you did to my sister.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: So she like in her best efforts, I'm sure, you know, things still went down, but she at least didn't get into the same situation as her sister.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so anyway, so so that all happens.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she uh again tries to like kind of ignore his advances, and by 1940, when Ruth is about 14, they do um like she does at least attempt to have some uh what of a life like outside of her family.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: She is attending Fair Fairfields Senior Girls School in Baskingshire.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Baskingstoke.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry if I said that wrong.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: English people.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even have that written down.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: More than I had.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Basing Stoke.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And uh she also becomes this is cute.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: She her first job is like she's an usherette of a cinema, which I think of like the old school like cigarette girls.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: They have like cute little bellhop costumes and they like sell cigarettes or sell movie tickets or whatever they do.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty young.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so she was only 14, 15 at the time, but I think that's the first time maybe she realizes like, you know what, there's kind of life outside of my weird family, and like and and people find me attractive.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like people want to talk to me, like I'm being a hostess.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she kind of gets this little sense of like, okay, like I don't just have to be my mom and put up with some weird man.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can have I can make decisions in my life, you know.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's her kind of like cute first little job, and that job is in Reading, Berkshire, which is I guess not too far away.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Again, apologies for I'm not unfamiliar with the geography.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then by about the same time in that year, when she's around 15, Arthur decides to move his old family to London because he's now going to be this live in chauffeur and caretaker of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: A place that's called it's actually like a lift manufacturer, like an elevator manufacturing company, but it's called Porn and Dunwoody.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: How how like what pathetic?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that odd of all the names you could think of in this world to name a company?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So this company is called Porn and Dunwoody.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um Limited.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes and he works there.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, again, as this like live-in caretaker of the factory or whatever it is.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And what's unfortunate is like Ruth again is still kind of underage, so she moves with him.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And her brother Julian goes off to war, goes off into I think he was in the Navy.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And Julian's uh girlfriend Edna like comes to live with them.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: So now it's the family plus Edna, like her brother's girlfriend.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden, like Edna and the dad are sleeping together.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the dad's already messed around with two of his daughters, and now he brings one of the boyfriends, like girlfriends, or sorry, sorry, brother's girlfriends into the situation.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: His son's girlfriend, gross.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: I want to see what he looked like.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously you think he was dashing?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, obviously for his daughters, that's a whole separate story.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: But to have your your your son's girlfriend now falling for you and having an affair for you.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think that was like a who knows if it was consensual at all.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: They made it sound like it was more on the consensual side, like they were having more of an affair, and she was okay with that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Which that makes me want to think like, what what was so charming about this douchebag of a purr?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: Cellist.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's a musician.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um girls can't resist the musician.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Something's weird going on with them.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't approve of that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and Bertha, the wife, is still around through all of this again.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Honey, it's she she finally like catches um Arthur and Edna in a bed together.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like very much like proven that they're together together.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um they they still decide, well, you know, for the good of the family, we're still gonna be together, it's no big deal.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: But like Edna kind of leaves the picture at that point, I think.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: Get out of there, yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're at about 1944 now.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: And our girl of the hour, Ruth Ellis, she's 17 years old, and she's getting a flavor of what London looks like.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: She's getting a flavor of the nightlife, and like you were saying, the attention, and she's she has jobs and she's meeting people, she's meeting men.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: And 17 years old, she finds herself pregnant to a married Canadian soldier.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't know he was married, sorry, pregnant to, pregnant by.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: She becomes pregnant by a Canadian soldier who's married.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: She ends up having a boy, his name is Andy, and the Oh, really.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I just want to say that the Canadian guy's name is Claire Andrea McCollum, and she names her son by him, Claire Andrea Nielsen.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Which, really quick, if you're wondering where Nielsen came from, because her dad's last name was Hornby.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hornby.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: He weird is the porn LTD company.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: When Ruth was five years old, like shortly after I think he began his relationship with the daughter Muriel, he just like changed his last name.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Weird.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Which why would you do that?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, no reasoning wise.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, unless like you were up to some other shit and you had to change your name.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was inexplicable why he changed his last name.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: So his last name went from Hornby to Nielsen.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: He just changed it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, her daughter, because her name is now Ruth Nielsen, becomes Claire Andrea Nielsen.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they she has a boy, and at first, this man star what was providing, right?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: At first, he was like contributing to the what do you call it?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Child support.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: For like about the first year or so.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: But pretty early on, um, Ruth realizes that she doesn't, she's not quite fit for motherhood.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: She's only 17, yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: And she actually wants to like keep working, which we know what this means by working.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: So her son Andy goes off to live with Bertha.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like Bertha just keeps taking on her daughter's kids.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like she now has the incess in like the result of incest child and now Ruth's child from this married man.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but now we're in the 1940s scene.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And really quick, I just want to say, like, I think Ruth did try to make it good for a little bit before she took on more like seedy jobs.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because when when Bertha first took in Andy, her son, um, like like Ruth went into work in like factories and like got some clerical work.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she was trying to just find an honest kind of job.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's good for her.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: But as we know then and now, what's more lucrative?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: The money's at.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Not honest jobs.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Where is the money at?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: The nightclubs.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: The nightclubs.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're in the 1940s and she becomes a nightclub hostess in Hamstead.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Then the the idea of the nightclub hostess gradually transforms from being a hostess in the nightclub to doing some modeling.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: To doing some nude modeling.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: And she's getting bank like a lot of money for this.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And from what we've understood, like we watched some documentaries on this, and apparently the modeling gig was kind of because like you know, nowadays you see like go-go dancers or whatever, and they're just kind of around, like trying to look pretty, dancing.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Or like, um, so we live in Scottsdale, Arizona.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Bottle girls, yeah.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Bottle girls are a big thing out here.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: They make so much freaking.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And all they do is bring you a bottle of champagne.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they show it to you.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes there's like sparklers.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: They just wear cute outfits.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: They wear cute outfits and they go around and they pour people the alcohol.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: They're not even like act, they're not even like like a servers.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's other people serving you.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: They're just kind of like it's a thing, a fair for those who are.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: I know we have a lot of listeners who are not from the state, so I don't know if this is also a thing outside of where we are.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: But there's kind of this running joke of being a bottle girl in Scottsdale because you're you're making so much money every night.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: They're raking in like$500 plus dollars and tips every night, maybe a thousand dollars a night.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you make a lot of money, and I'm sure it's very similar to what what Ruth is experiencing.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: You like you like the attention, you like the spotlight, you feel kind of valuable, you know, and and her position too, she didn't even really have to interact with anybody because she was like a like a statue.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like she literally had to just kind of pose in a corner or on a platform naked and like not even move.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Just let people look at you.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just let people like look at you naked, you know, and I'm sure it's creepy in a way, but it's also like people notice me.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: They like easy, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: They like they like the way I look, they're admiring my body.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is nice.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: If I had a good body, it sounds like a pretty good deal.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Should we, Megan?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think people want me.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they do, yes, they do.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: So she's doing this nude modeling, she's getting a ton of money, but it again, like everything becomes gradual as a hostess to a model.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: Her manager is starting to black well, maybe not starting, but she's now in the scene where her manager is blackmailing the other employees for sex, yeah, and that turns into her just becoming a full-on escort slash prostitute.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: So she now has clients, she's doing the oldest trade in the business.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: She's a lady of the night at this point.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And she ends up um getting pregnant.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: So already already she has the one son, and so she gets pregnant again and then has another known abortion, which at this time we just want to clarify because obviously, apparently, abortion in this day and age is still very controversial, and at this time it is legal.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: So 1950s London, it is legal to have an abortion, so she has another known abortion.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we are at 1950 now, so she um is still doing her thing, making a lot of money.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: November 8th, 1950, she gets married.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so she meets someone.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: His name is George Johnston Ellis, 41 years old.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: She's 24 years old.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he's very much older than her.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: He already has two sons.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: He's a divorced dentist, and not only that, he's like a regular at her club.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Her club, yeah, her club is called um Court Club.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's on Duke Street.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: So he's already a regular there.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you kind of know what you're getting into.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: If the way you meet the love of your life is because he's like a frequenter of your strip club.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Strip club slash escort surrounding.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like a great match.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's meant to be.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: He's also a violent alcoholic.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And he's very possessive.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: Just adding to the to the mix of it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's very possessive, he's very jealous.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: They're married and he's convinced that Ruth is having an affair constantly.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: You knew both, it goes both ways.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: You knew who you were marrying.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: You knew where you met them and how you met them.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Not to say that Ruth was having an affair.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think she was, I mean, who knows, but to have actual relationships.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: But regardless, she has criteria of her responsibilities and her role.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you can call that in itself an affair.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: She's clearly with other men the whole time.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: And for him to all of a sudden be jealous and shocked by this, okay, dude, you're a dentist.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you pay enough for her so she doesn't have to work on the streets like that?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's so true.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it reminds me, and not to like bring Anne Boleyn into this, as we do on my shirt.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, we talk about this with like Anne Boleyn and King Henry VIII.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like all the reasons you were attracted to her are now the reasons you despise her.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I hate when that happens to the ladies of her story, when it's like, oh, you see her and she's like saucy and she's sultry and she's, you know, this great hostess, and you want, you know, you feel warm in her presence, and you think, oh, I have to be with this woman.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then you marry her.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, wait, she's sultry and she's saucy to other people.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: How dare she?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: How dare she?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why is she like this?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: She should just be home for me.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, dude, everything that attracted you to her is what's also attracting other people to her.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, are you shocked?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Are you shocked that this woman who's everything you thought you wanted is now the center of attention for other people?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have a theory.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just came up with this theory.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: I like it.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, in my brain, I'm thinking he's a dentist, he's a doctor.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, why isn't he supporting the family?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: He's a dentist in England in the 1950s.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in a dentist in England now, you wouldn't make a ton of money.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna get so much hate for this.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Comment below.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we started it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: I am just saying in London, we had we we noticed we couldn't find any dentistry.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I love our London listeners.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love our England listeners, love all of our listeners, but it is a running joke that in you know the UK a lot of people just don't prioritize Orthodon show.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: We just like extra prioritize it as well.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think in America we're weird about it.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like every kid gets braces when you're 10 to 13.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, every single child.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: You had them, I had them, Robbie had him.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: We um the dog had him.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: We have dentists.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: We have dentists' offices, like every corner.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Every corner there's a dentist, a dentistry establishment.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't just have like you have to have straight teeth when you're a kid, and then as you're an adult, you have retainers, you have to have whiteners, like you have to have perfect teeth your entire life.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Notice our smiles.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: They're like full of red wine, perfect.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: All I'm saying is, in theory, I don't know how prestigious the role of a dentist was in 1950 England.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: It also reminds me of the movie Hangover when he keeps introducing himself as a doctor, and they're like, dude, you're a dentist.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like being a chiropractor, and you're like, doctor.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I'm not bragging if it's true.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so um, so where were we with the abortion?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, I'm not an abortion right now.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she's married, she's with George Johnston Ellis.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: They have a daughter together.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: She gives birth to Georgina in 1957.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I wanted to say the first child's name because I find it interesting that she names her children after them the fathers, even though the fathers are essentially like gone.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Also, I clearly can't read my writing.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: I just pulled an Elizabeth move.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Not 1957, 1951.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: That makes more sense.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: She was dead in 1957.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, they were barely together, they were together for like less than a year.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, had the daughter Georgina, Georgiana.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Georgina?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Georgina.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: My handwriting.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but because he was such a jealous uh husband, George never really acknowledged his paternity.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like he, as soon as she had the kid, was like, Well, that daughter's not mine.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Even though we're married, like he assumed because of her past and because of who she is, as this hostess, like, definitely that kid's someone else.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: So they then separate and divorce because he's now just not taking the role of as a father.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: So she had the one, you know, guy who supported the child for a year and then cast the kid off.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: And now she has a second guy who's like, that's not my kid.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: I am proud of her for walking away.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because unlike her mother Bertha, who kept with it and just yeah, she just turned a blind eye to everything.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Ruth actually wouldn't tolerate it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: And she did walk away.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: They did get divorced in less than a year from when they were married.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but she also needs to support herself, which means she's back to the escort life.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: She moves back in with her parents, all of it is just a bad situation.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Also, side note while she was four months pregnant, she was an uncredited actress in a film as like a beauty pageant.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: The the movie was called, and we can look this up to I kind of want to see it.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: I want to see what she looked like in it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know, me too.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the movie was Lady Godiva Rides Again.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And she was a beauty queen in it, and again, just like this uncredited role.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: But she was in a movie.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: And from this point on, again, like she she falls back in love with this life of like, I still am young and I still want to be acknowledged and and being told that I'm pretty.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so she gets like a managerial role at this place called Little Club in Knightsburg.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And now at this point, I think she's kind of reached like very much a peak of her beauty, at least to this point in her life.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And she's given these lavish gifts and expensive things from all these admirers who come to her and say, like, oh my gosh, like, you know, who are you, you goddess?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you you run this club and you're so beautiful.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: And she and she again like has these new celebrity friends because she's kind of been in this like Hollywood scene a little bit.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: She's now the manager.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Also, can we laugh at how I spelt out oops, sorry, I didn't mean to hit the night the mic.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: How I spelt nightclub.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Why did I spell it like that?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's what it's called.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, is it?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so it's alright.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: You I it's okay.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is it okay?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, the town is called Knightsburg.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: With a K.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like a knight in shiny armor.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Knightsburg with a K.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the club is called Little Club.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you just mash them together and I wrote nightclub K and I like a night.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's how we'll title this episode.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: The Nightclub.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Queen of the Night Club.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Queen of the Nightclub.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Nightclub murder.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I like we'll always workshop all of these.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Also, when we come up with our titles for the names of episodes, it's typically me texting Elizabeth saying, Alright, what's up in your genius mind?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: And 95% of the time you come up with the titles for it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's I mean, it's always a duo.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like she'll give me one title and I'll tweak it, and then she'll come up with another one, I'll tweak it.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we end up arriving at something together, but occasionally I have a good idea.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: So even though she's met many admirers who are giving her all these lavish gifts, she then meets someone called David Blakely, who's a race car driver.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like he drives cars and he's an aspiring professional race car driver.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she doesn't know this, but he's actually engaged to someone else.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, she didn't know that?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, she didn't know that.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: I thought maybe she would just like no, but I feel like whatever.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: She's had this pattern of like trusting men and they completely betray her trust.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: So whether it was her father or like, you know, the guy that she had a son with, like, eventually something happens where her like fairy tale image of this person is just broken.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: So so David Blakely is her latest prey.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: A sense of poor judgment.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit, because only a few weeks into her dating him, he starts living in her flat.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Weeks.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Weeks, literally weeks, weeks.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: She lives at this point above the um club.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, and again, maybe it's a London thing.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it's kind of an American thing too.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: But like when you owned a business back in the day, you kind of like lived above the business or something.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's a thing, but to invite the person who you recently met.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, I know.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm just saying, like, it's her only sense of independence from her parents that she has this job and now she has the flat associated with the job.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: So she kind of feels empowered to be like, yo, I'm gonna bring whatever man back here and like mm-hmm.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: But this is also 1954, 53.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very even more so to have your lover, the person that you're rendezvousing with, to come up in the apartment with you and start living with you.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's a very scandalous affair, in my opinion.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's definitely scandalous to be.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: Mia is like, look, I got this new haircut, I've got this new, like, well, in my opinion, so it's a woman is a tramp.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Again, if you haven't seen the YouTube, Megan's hair is redone, and now all of a sudden Megan is very judgmental on the chin length of the time.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can be judgmental with my chin-length hair now.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mia is having the same hair since high school, we'll say.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: You just you just graduated recently.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, long- Tell us about David Blakely.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, long story short, like she she met this guy who she thought was, again, another gallant man, but uh he doesn't really have a whole lot going for him because the woman he's actually engaged to is an heiress.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: So he doesn't really need to worry about money.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Again, his obsession is cars.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: He loves motor cars.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Motor cars are the new hot sensation, right?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Toad.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: Toad.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's all he wants to do.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: So his free time is spent racing cars, fixing up cars.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: He's always on the track.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: He kind of brings her around to his like friends through the racing circuit.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously his fiancee doesn't know, but his friends who race with him know about Ruth.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the main couple he hangs out with, I I forget their okay, I don't have their names written down actually.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, I didn't write down their names.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like it was because they're kind of they're kind of unemployed.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: They have friends, they have another couple friend.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, well, the couple friends, um, they are the finlauters.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's their last name.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it is Anthony and Carol Finnlautter, and they're like the main couple he hangs out with.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so the Finnlautner Lautners are a little bit more highbrow and a little bit more classy, and they don't love Ruth because they're like, who's this like hussy you're bringing around?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like you are engaged to an heiress who's probably we're gonna assume classy broad, nice lady, maybe pretty, we don't know.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: But they're they're very much nose-up towards Ruth, and Ruth can feel this as well.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: She knows she's not quite welcome in his circles, even though like he's a hard drinker, he's a racer, he's very spontaneous.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she sees all these like crazy qualities in him, but at the end of the day, he just kind of screwing around and he has an heiress.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: He sounds very like Jekyll and Hyde a little bit.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: He has this one life of him with the heiress engagement and the hoity-toity of London, this other side of the seedier part where he's with Ruth.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: He's living in her apartment, in her flat upstairs.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he loves the hard drinker, crazy life.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, quite honestly, a reason why he was so infatuated with Ruth is because she provided free booze as an alcoholic.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you're now dating a manager of a nightclub.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: He was there every night getting free booze, yeah, living the life, getting his ladies.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um and what was funny is at the beginning their relationship was actually very cold.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't like each other, but it only took, like you said, weeks before they were living together.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: That that moves along very quickly.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: And not only does it move quickly, but she gets pregnant again.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: So both.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: My god figure it out.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you you've already had one abortion at this point, like you gotta kind of figure out birth control methods, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is fourth pregnancy?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because she had the first pregnancy 17.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then she was pregnant again, abortion kid.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then she had Georgiana.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a good one.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: And this is her now.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is her second kid that she's now going to abort.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, Well, I don't think that you are gonna be loyal to me, David Blakely.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I'm just gonna go ahead and make the decision to abort this baby.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: And she was very much like again, at the point where she's she's young, she's feeling like she's in control, she's making her own decision, she doesn't want men to make decisions for her because she's seen how that plays out.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, in a way, she feels like empowered by this, where she's like, Oh my god, it's fine.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna, I'm gonna do what I want to do.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the Day again, you already have two kids, you've had one abortion, now you're having another abortion, you're just kind of like living by the seat of your pants at this point.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Her and Blakely don't end up in a monogamous, happy relationship.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: She ends up finding another dude.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: She meets meets another guy named Desmond Cusson.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: So Cusson is like a retired pilot, he's now an accountant, and within a few weeks, she moves in with him to his Oxford Street flat.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: So she is having this relationship with Cusson.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, again, the year is now like 1955 that all this is transpiring.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: She is still kind of seeing Blakely.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: So she and Blakely are clearly not in a monogamous relationship.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're seeing other people.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: She is living with Cusson.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: He's seeing other women.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's still engaged.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: But at this point, he kind of comes to her and he says, Hey, if you want to stop screwing around, like I will marry you.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just like let's drop the act, let's drop all this like craziness in our lives, and let's just decide, like, I'll ditch my fiance, we'll get married, we'll have a happy life.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know if that's quite enough for her because she's still argumentative, she still wants all this drama.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And at a certain point, she becomes pregnant again with Blakely's child.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Her fifth child, the fifth now, like conceived child, and they get into such a heated argument one night that he literally punches her trigger warning, trigger warning, punches her in the stomach, and she miscarries.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it's almost like uh like at this point, you're just self-sabotaging a little bit, like you're just being a little crazy and instigating all these things that's not right of him to do.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: These men are terrible, but she's picking the worst men.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: She's gotta stay away from these terrible men that she just keeps ending up with, which is very sad.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: So this leads us to April 10th, 1955.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's Easter Sunday.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: She knows that so she's still with both men, right?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: She's with she's in loving David.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she she's living with Cusson.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: She's in love with David Blakely.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: She gets this jealous rage.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna come now, finally, to the murder.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: Why was she executed?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it's Easter Sunday.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: First, she's on the prowl of where Blakely is at.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: She knows that he's at his friend's house, the Finn Lauders, the couple.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: And she goes and she gets in a taxi and she follows him there.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then she sees that they move on and they kind of like move the party along to a pub.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: She follows along and she's kind of just like stalking him in a way, like tracing his steps.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like she paid the taxi to follow him.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't know that part of what was her very initial intention.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think we can figure it out as this moves on, but she's following him.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: They end up at the Magdala, Magdala Pub, which is still a pub to this day that you can go and visit.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: Which is kind of cool.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: So they end up at this pub and she's waiting outside, lurking for him, waiting for him to come out.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: He finally comes out with his friend, 9:30 p.m.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: And she his friend at this point is another guy, Clive Gunnell.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: Is who he can do?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: He's like now leaving the pub with his friend.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: She pulls out a 38 caliber, a Smith and Wesson.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Revolver.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: Shoots, misses.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: He runs behind a car.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: She shoots again.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: She's chasing after him with this revolver on the open streets of London.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: She gets five shots into him.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: Eventually, she stands over him and fires point blank, hovering over him in a calm demeanor.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Bang, bang, bang.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: She shoots him down cold-blooded.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: In the back.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: In the back.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: He's laying on the ground in the back.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: She just shoots him down.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Cold-blooded murder in the open streets of London.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they know it was such a close range because there was literally gunpowder burns around like the bullet points on his skin.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they knew it was so close to the point where the gunpowder got on his body because she was like inches away from his skin.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: She was sh it was like right there in front of him.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: One, there was a bystander, a woman, who wanted the bullets to ricochet off of the pavement and like hit her in the thumb.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like she didn't care who who was in the way.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: She had one focus and she did not miss the shot.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a um a really good interview that we watched on a video of like a young man and his father who witnessed the murder as well.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because this is 1955.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like people are alive.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're walking around.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that, you know, far away from our current day.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: So this, you know, older gentleman is speaking about how he was eight years old with his father.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: They heard the gunshots, which which sounded like a car backfiring, and then they run to the scene together.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: The dad kind of forgot he even had a child with him because he was so concerned.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then they see the dead body.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: And what they see next is Ruth being apprehended by the police because she happened to be right in front of an off-duty cop.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: I love this part.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: So she's standing next to Blakely's friend, this guy Clive.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: And she's kind of in this like weird, melancholic, calm state of mind, but she looked a little bit confused, people said.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: She just kind of looked around.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, Will you call the police, Clive?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, in one other account, we heard that she took the revolver to her head with intentions of taking her own life.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then the gun jammed.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: The revolver actually jammed up.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: So that's always like, oh my god.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like she had every motive to shoot and suicide.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like whether whatever she wanted to do after the murder doesn't really matter because at this point it's very clear to everyone who was there who saw it.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: Point blank murder.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she just wanted to murder this guy.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: She didn't care what came after that.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: She didn't care if it was her own life after that, if she got arrested, if she went calmly in the night, it didn't matter.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: They just knew after the murder, she was like super calm and collected.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: And she may have tried to kill herself first.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows if the gun jammed or didn't jam?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: But what was clear is that there was a policeman nearby.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when she looked to her friend and said, Will you call the police, Clive?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: The policeman turned to her and said, I am the police.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh shit.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: So she immediately was arrested, like on the spot.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, she goes, and then she goes, I am guilty.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a little confused.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think I would say that.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_03: No shit.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm guilty.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also a little I realize I'm holding literally the smoking gun right now, and I just point blank shot this guy six times.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: So she's arrested, all of that.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: She's examined.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: There, her lawyers are trying to pull off a sense of insanity, a state of insanity that she was in, but there's no evidence of that.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: They they say she was in actually a very clear mind.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: She knew exactly what she was doing.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: This premeditated.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like in terms of the fatal wounds to the body, she had shot him in his intestines, liver, lung, aorta, and trachea.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they like were like good.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: Clearly, you hit all the main points of the body.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: And even her revolver to this day is actually in the Metropolitan Metropolitan Police's Crime Museum.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's how like important of an instrument it is.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Which again, we don't condone murder, but if you're gonna murder, that's cool.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: Just get your evidence in the museum if you're gonna commit.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Get your shit in the museum.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: June 20th, 1955.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: She has her court date.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: She is in number one court in Old Bailey.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Old Bailey is the same court.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_03: Our very last episode, the Heartless Spy, he was in Old Bailey.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: Two episodes ago.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa, that was two episodes ago.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: Two episodes ago.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: Time flies when you're having fun.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: But that was in the 1500s, which is funny.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: Still Old Bailey.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: With the Heartless Spy.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 1500s.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, so sorry.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: American Revolution.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: 1700s.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Getting more applicable.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Really quick, really quick uh edit.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Miss Elizabeth Black said it was 1775.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: 1776.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: American Rev.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: I never noticed that you said that.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: I noticed.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: I walk I listened back and I was like, how could you say that?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even notice.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna put We all know you're not stupid.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Do we?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do we?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna Google it.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: Declarer.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's 76.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 76.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: I said 75 on the pod.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like an idiot.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it was 1776.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we all know that.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: 1776.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, not me on that episode.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: Continue.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: June 20th, 1955.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: She's at Old Bailey Court.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: She's wearing a black suit, a blouse.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: A silk white blouse.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: Dyed her hair platinum blonde.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like extra blonde.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: Fresh.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: Super blonde.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: And people like this is not anything new.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: When you are on trial, you are being judged by every single person looking at you and your appearance and everything, it all makes a difference.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: So they kind of already sized her up to be somebody who is a little bit risque, you know, emotional.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a little bit on the flamboyant side, perhaps.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: And here you come with freshly dyed hair.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Which again, at that point, I think they called her something like a brassy blonde.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: They did, I have that.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: They did call her a brassy blonde.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: And brass at the time meant prostitute.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: So if they called you brass or top brass or whatever, it was specifically in reference to you being a whore.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: They knew she was, yeah, she was a prostitute.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: So they were like, oh, what a brassy blonde.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: But they were it's kind of tongue-in-cheek like she's a whore.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: They had no public sympathy for her whatsoever.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think is overall the impression that she was giving.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um they found her guilty within 20 minutes.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: So the trial itself took two days.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: But when it came time to the first meeting together, 20 minutes, they figured out she was guilty.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: And why did why did they lead to such a quick, a quick sentencing like that?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: When they asked her, like, what it what was your intention with shooting him?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: At the close range that you did.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you have the quote there?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she said, It's obvious when I shot him I intended to kill him.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: Good one, Ruth.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's hilarious to me because her lawyers try to get her to like come in as non-guilty.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: But when she's giving these types of statements, they're like, girl, you're actually setting yourself up for this.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: And again, when we watch some of the YouTube videos about this, like a lot of the I guess like criminologists say that she didn't have a plan post-murder.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like she thought, oh, I'm gonna murder him, and then this is where I'm gonna go, and how I'm gonna disguise myself and how I'm gonna get away with it.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: She was very much like the end goal is killing him.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Kill him, like maybe kill myself, but not thinking beyond that.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe kill myself, but I don't know of anything beyond this.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it was very apparent in the way that her trial went because she did not make any attempt to like hide anything, protect herself, protect others.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: She was just like, yep, it's what it is.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she was technically raised a Catholic.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe in a way this was kind of her way of being like, Yeah, I deserve what I got.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not ashamed of it.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she's been through so much abuse in her life.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe she just felt like this is fine.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's what it is.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: It is what it is.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: She was held at uh Holloway prison and she actually didn't want to set submit a petition, but her family was very adamant that they were like, this is not fair.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: Part of the reason they thought it wasn't fair is because she is here sitting in prison with the death sentence.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: And good old Desmond Cusson, her boyfriend, was very much involved.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he, yes, they had him on the sand as a witness, but he wasn't tried for anything.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: So let's kind of recap.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go back in time a little bit.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: What did he do?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: So what did Desmond do?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Desmond actually, we find out, gave her the gun.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: Trained her.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: Loaded the gun.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: Trained her on how to use the gun.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then we find out he drove her to the final location to find him, to shoot him.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: So some accounts say it was a taxi.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Some say it was, in fact, Desmond.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like Desmond got off very easy on this.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: She got the very very, very hard blow of all of it.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_03: She was obviously she's holding the smoking gun.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_03: But he was just put on stand as a witness and not and not held accountable for any of his actions whatsoever.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Her family writes a seven-page letter trying to petition for her freedom, or at least just saying she doesn't deserve the death penalty.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now, at this time in England, if you commit murder, it is an automatic death sentence.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what they were petitioning.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, we get it.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: She's not so perfect, but can we like maybe not sentence her to death?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like lessen the sentence a bit, yeah.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: And she wasn't in prison for long for that long.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: So this is June 20th, was her trial.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: July 13th, 1955, is her execution.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: Which, really quick, days before Disneyland Anaheim opens.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Weird.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's supposed to be a joyous month in history.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: But here we are.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'd be so sad if I was executed days before Disneyland opened.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to put that out there.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or just think of the like, you know, is there no joy in the world?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: At one end of the world, it's balloons and corn dogs.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: And at the total other end, there's somebody else sitting in their cell knowing that they're gonna hang that day.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good point.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're all on our own tracks and you only see a certain amount of things.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of creepy, right?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: It is creepy.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and her cell the night before her execution, she wrote to her to Blakely's parents, the guy that she murdered.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: And in that letter it said, I have always loved your son and I shall die still loving him.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm, that's kind of romantic.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: Even though they had a very turbulent relationship and he was engaged to somebody else.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: Fine.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: All fine.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: The whole thing is messed up.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that is kind of romantic.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, but at the end of the day, July 13th, 1955, she was hanged, and it was the last execution hanging, really, of a woman in Britain.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: The the last hanged woman in England.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: I have some info on the hangman.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you do always.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Albert Pierpoint.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: He was the hangman between 1931 to 1956 in England.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, he so 25 years.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: He hanged between 435 to 600 people.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: Or actually, not even just hanged, it's just an executed.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: Those stats are big compared to our last one.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: Executed up to 600 people.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we've we've talked about big executions executioners before.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was like in the 200s.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: So he think of the dates, 1931 to 1956.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: This was during World War II.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_03: So he was responsible for executing a lot of um war crimes.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Quote unquote traitors or whatever, spies.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: Both his dad and his uncle were also hangmen.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: His dad was uh on one of the jobs to execute someone, showed up drunk and was like dismissed.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, why does that happen so often?
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the first time we ever talked about a drunk executioner.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: We were like, oh my god, like they got him drunk, and he didn't know how to execute the next day, and now we're like, yeah, it was he was drunk that day, like as normal.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: Happens.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: This was in what the 1930s.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_03: He uh he was like an assistant executioner for his uncle.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: They did like their first execution together.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's a whole family trend.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: So, anyways, there's a there's a lot on Albert.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't get fully into it, but he was a well-established English hangman who did the job for 25 years during World War II.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Dang.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: He had uh several very notable executions, but one of them was was Ruth.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, so she hanged, and it wasn't anything that eventful during her hanging.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, like, normally, right, hangings in history we think of a famous place or famous tree or something.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: And this is like they took her into like a room.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like, yeah, I mean, it's 1955.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's modern.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's very modern.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: They're not hanging from a tree.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not public execution anymore.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm picturing more, if anyone's ever seen the movie Um Capote, which is based on the book, which not to be that snob, but I read it by Truman Capote and Cold Snobby in Cold Blood.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great author.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you're into murder mysteries, it's amazing.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: But that was a 1950s, 1960s, 1960s murder.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was gonna say, I think most of his books, like Breface A Tiffany's, was written by him in like the early 1960s, late 50s.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: But the execution itself was more in like a very private room, warehouse almost part of the jail.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: So she was brought to an adjacent room next to her jail cell.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_03: Where it was all pretty much like clean cut, like one and done.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like very structured type of a situation.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't rowdy, it's not like the crowd is out there cheering or jeering.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's all very by the book.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's very lawful.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think of more of a modern, like, uh elect like electrocutioner's chair.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, like in the Ted Bundy situation or whatever.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think of a more modern, here's your facility, here's a white wall room.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good way to put it, it's a facility.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and here's where you're gonna die.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's not what it used to be in medieval times of like, here's your stump, you have to make a speech, here's the crowd.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, there's not these last moments that are so eventful.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, it's 9 a.m.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not an event.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: Take it to your room.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an event.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's over.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh following through on the legal procedures of what's supposed to happen.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but the the the biggest legacy that Ruth Ellis, and the reason why we wanted to do this episode, and because we found a very important, you're probably like, okay, this is kind of like just a modern execution, but not it's I think it's still cool.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: Her story's her story's wild.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: But to your point, she was the last woman who was hanged in England.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: So let's on that part of it, she changed laws.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason she changed laws was because even up until this day, she's kind of used as a reference and she's used as this example of does everybody deserve the death sentence regardless of the circumstances of what happened?
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to consider everything around what this person went through, whether it was like, again, the sexual abuse, the physical abuse, the like relationships that were so deteriorating.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, it's not good to murder anybody, but maybe we should be a bit more forgiving in certain circumstances, versus like this person's just a sociopath who wanted to go on a killing spree, you know.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: What was the backstory behind it?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I was I was just watching the documentary about Gypsy Rose, the uh Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and kind of similar.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's like she killed her mother.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: And if though if you have no idea what I'm talking about, then you need to go look it up.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: But it's it's all over, it's a very current, she's actually getting released this month from prison after a 10-year sentence.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: But, anyways, very similar.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, what's the backstory?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: What is the reason behind the murder?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: How much of it was like an abusive situation that drove this person to over the edge.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: And would this person continue to murder?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Is this a serial killer who doesn't care who it is and they're just out for blood, or was it provoked?
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_03: A very low moment in someone's life of someone who provoked it and they caused it.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, anyways, all that said, that's what Ruth Ellis started that conversation because of her, they abolished the death penalty for all murder accusations or fine found guilty of murder.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they found it more on a circumstantial level.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_03: She did not, let's be clear, she did not abolish the death penalty, but she made it so that it wasn't the only sentence provided to somebody who was found guilty of murder.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: She could do life in prison or something.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like other alternatives.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like obviously, you're still gonna be punished, you're not just gonna get off scot-free.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, you just get a little bit wrapped, you just get a little bit.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there wasn't that many tortures in London.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be called.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're beyond the torture scene.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: We're in the 1950s.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: Our parents lived through this.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, well, almost.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: Almost.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: My parents were a few years off.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: Both of our parents.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, um, and what's interesting too is again, uh we're talking, you're still talking about.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: England here.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: So what's the tradition of somebody who is executed in this time?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: Their body gets placed into an unmarked grave.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hasn't changed.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like still hasn't changed.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um in the early 1970s, they actually like exhumed the remains of some of the people that were in this unmarked grave.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they finally reburied her um next to her kin uh at St.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: Mary's Church in Amherstham, Buckinghamshire.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_02: So many Buckings and Shires and Woods and whatever.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: Shire Woods.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Shire Woods in England.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: We love you.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um but what was more interesting is the amount of deaths that happened after her death, I thought.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh really?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, like obviously she died in 1955.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: She died in 1955.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, in sequential order, here's some other things that happened.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: Her first husband, George Ellis, who she named her daughter after, Georgiana, Georgia, he died by suicide in 1958.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: Killed himself.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: Her mother tried to kill herself in 1969.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, I think she did like this excessive gas fume thing, whether it was her oven or her some some she like released a gas in her household and tried to kill herself.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't succeed, but she literally was like disabled the rest of her life.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: So she tried that in 19 1969.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then Ruth's son, who we remember from earlier in this episode, um, he tried to kill himself as well.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, he succeeded.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: First, what he did was he desecrated her grave.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: So in 1982, he went to her new grave after her body was exhumed, reburied, kind of given a proper burial.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_02: He went in 1982, desecrated her grave, and then killed himself.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_02: Jeez.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Ruth, like our girl.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're pulling for you, but created this legacy.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: You did create a lot of tragedy.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, essentially you're raped by your father, your mother died by suicide, like your your first husband died by suicide, your son died by suicide.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: Her daughter, Georgia, or who she actually didn't know.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: Georgina, I'm sorry.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: Georgina actually lived to be 50 years old and then died of cancer, which is still very tragic.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you know, it's like you you think, oh, maybe things will get better over time for this family tree, this family line.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: This poor family had so much to be sad about, and so much tragedy happened.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_02: So unfortunately, her death wasn't the end of the deaths in this family.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was a very sad story.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's just an example of like, hey, not all people get over these childhood traumas, right?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it's all something we wish to get people get past.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it doesn't always happen.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_02: Very sad.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful story, cool story.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I think she's in a heroine in so many ways because she refused to kind of accept like the social norms, but at the same time, very tragic.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_02: Very sad.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I feel like she's a very good example of like, don't judge your judge the book by its cover.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely made my assumptions about her, but I'm sure she's a much deeper woman than you know what's on the surface there.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: And we just never know what happened behind closed doors.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what was her her age of she was 28.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: She's only 28 years old when she was hanged.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: She was 28 years old.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: So she's a young, beautiful woman who was hanged.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: Tons of charisma.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, had she been born in different circumstances, like who knows what else she could have done.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, she tried to be, I guess, opportunistic in a lot of ways, but it didn't help her.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like it still caused this very bad and inevitable fate, I think.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it still pisses me off that Desmond was off completely with no repercussions whatsoever, even though they know that he gave her all the tools and resources and taught her and encouraged her to kill her other lover.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he wasn't even like an accomplice.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he wasn't charged for anything.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh, okay, she basically gave him up and said all the ways that he set her up, but it's fine.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's a man in society of some money and some means, so whatever.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's the culprit, she's the she's the murderess.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Any final words?
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Not until next time.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: He had it coming.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: He had it coming.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: He only had himself to live.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know how people have these little habits that get you down.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like Birdie.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_04: No, not chew.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I came home with one day and I'm really irritated and I'm looking for a little bit of sympathy.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_04: And there's Bertie lying on the couch, drinking a beer and chewing.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_04: No, not chewing.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_04: Poppin'.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I said to him, I said, you pop that gum one more time.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_04: And he did.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I took the shotgun off the wall and I fired two warning shots.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_04: Into his head.