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The Wolf of Whiteman Street: The Extraordinary Fall of Sy Giang Nguyen · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:15
Speaker 1: For years, C.
0:15
Speaker 2: Zhang Nguyen lived a life that seemed wildly at odds
0:19
Speaker 2: with his day job as an IT manager at a
0:22
Speaker 2: Geelong disability services charity. He became known as the Wolf
0:26
Speaker 2: of Whiteman Street, a crown casino high roller with elite
0:30
Speaker 2: VIP status, access to luxury villas, expensive parties and and
0:35
Speaker 2: a social circle that included football stars, business figures, and celebrities.
0:40
Speaker 2: There were lavish sexually charged parties, extravagant spending, racehorses, and famously,
0:47
Speaker 2: a $ 12, 500 cocktail. But behind that extraordinary lifestyle, police allege
0:53
Speaker 2: something very different was happening. Nguyen has now been charged
0:57
Speaker 2: with 309 counts of obtaining financial advantage by deception, with
1:02
Speaker 2: police alleging more than $ 10 million dollars was fortunately obtained
1:06
Speaker 2: from Gen U, the not-for-profit disability services organisation where he worked.
1:11
Speaker 2: These allegations are before the courts. Nguyen has not been convicted,
1:15
Speaker 2: and nothing you're about to hear should be taken as
1:18
Speaker 2: suggesting his guilt. So how did an IT manager become
1:22
Speaker 2: one of Crown's biggest high rollers, and where did the
1:25
Speaker 2: money come from? Herald Sun senior reporter Seb Costello has
1:30
Speaker 2: been digging into Nguyen's extraordinary rise and fall. I sat
1:33
Speaker 2: down with Seb recently to talk about the man they
1:36
Speaker 2: called the Wolf of Whiteman Street. Seb Costello, welcome to
1:41
Speaker 2: Real Crime Again.
1:42
Speaker 1: Great to be back, Adam.
1:43
Speaker 3: And this is a story I've been working on for
1:45
Speaker 3: months and it's got it all. I've never seen a
1:48
Speaker 3: story that crosses so many fault lines and drags in
1:52
Speaker 3: so many well-known people in both the sort of sporting
1:56
Speaker 3: and corporate A-list circles of Melbourne.
1:58
Speaker 2: Because you're kind of, I'm envious of the role you're
2:01
Speaker 2: doing at the moment. You're getting out and about, old
2:04
Speaker 2: school shoe leather journo, finding stories, bringing them back to
2:07
Speaker 2: the desk and doing a great job. So I'm envious.
2:10
Speaker 2: Tell us about the latest one, The Wolf of Whiteman Street.
2:14
Speaker 3: Yep, that's his nickname. Some friends called him The Yangster.
2:17
Speaker 3: His real name is Sai Yang Nguyen. And on the books,
2:22
Speaker 3: he was an IT worker down in Geelong for a
2:25
Speaker 3: disability charity named Gen U, with his highest salary being
2:29
Speaker 3: around $ 120, 000 to $ 140, 000. What we do know about him, though,
2:35
Speaker 3: was over 20 years, he spent up to 200 nights
2:38
Speaker 3: a year at the Crown Casino. He was a regular
2:41
Speaker 3: at the restaurant, splashing the cash around, always surrounded by
2:45
Speaker 3: multiple beautiful women.
2:47
Speaker 1: And we've also since.
2:48
Speaker 3: Learned that he would throw what's been described as sexually
2:52
Speaker 3: charged parties up high in a villa, 35 floors above
2:57
Speaker 3: the Crown Towers. And this was the lifestyle that Tsai
3:00
Speaker 3: Yang knew and lived. A lot of his friends who
3:02
Speaker 3: I've spoken to, people who knew him, they say, we
3:05
Speaker 3: thought he was a banking millionaire. We thought his money
3:08
Speaker 3: came from a finance invention. Well, he's now been charged
3:13
Speaker 3: over a fraud that police will allege comes to around
3:16
Speaker 3: $ 10 million. And they say that he stole that money
3:20
Speaker 3: or defrauded Genu out of that money during his time
3:24
Speaker 3: as an IT worker.
3:25
Speaker 2: And what does Genu do?
3:27
Speaker 3: Genu is a disability service provider. They have been previously
3:32
Speaker 3: known as the Brotherhood of St Lawrence in Geelong. They
3:34
Speaker 3: then changed their name to Caringle. They're now known as
3:36
Speaker 3: Gen U, and they work very closely with the NDIS
3:40
Speaker 3: in providing services to people living with disability. So if
3:45
Speaker 3: the fraud is proven and the evidence is yet to
3:46
Speaker 3: be tested ahead of a court, the allegation here is
3:50
Speaker 3: that money was taken away from people who live with
3:54
Speaker 3: disability and spent in other ways by Mr Nguyen.
3:57
Speaker 2: Because this is before the courts, and we're talking about
3:59
Speaker 2: evidence that has not yet been tested in a court,
4:02
Speaker 2: so he has the presumption of innocence. Let's be very
4:04
Speaker 2: clear about that. But I think this story demonstrates what
4:08
Speaker 2: a lot of people think about the NDIS. It's now massive,
4:13
Speaker 2: bigger than Medicare. It's much bigger than Bill Shorten, who
4:16
Speaker 2: was the architect of it, would ever have imagined. And
4:20
Speaker 2: it seems to be riddled with rorts and corruption. I'm
4:24
Speaker 2: sure there are people out there who can actually come
4:26
Speaker 2: up with stories as well. So please get into adamshandwriter.gmail.com
4:29
Speaker 2: because I'm really interested in this whole thing. Because as
4:31
Speaker 2: you say, genuinely disabled people, people who need support, are
4:36
Speaker 2: being exploited and rorted so these providers can have a
4:40
Speaker 2: millionaire lifestyle.
4:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's often said that a big honeypot
4:44
Speaker 3: of money is going to attract organised crime. We see it,
4:49
Speaker 3: so we're told, in the big build here in Victoria.
4:52
Speaker 3: The CFMEU has got all sorts of questions to answer
4:54
Speaker 3: about whether those huge checks the government wrote was finding
4:58
Speaker 3: its way into the hands of organised crime, what appears
5:01
Speaker 3: to be happening here and again. the evidence will be
5:03
Speaker 3: tested before a court, is that a charity who had
5:06
Speaker 3: access to the huge piles of NDIS money had an
5:10
Speaker 3: employee allegedly defraud them of some.
5:12
Speaker 1: Of that money.
5:13
Speaker 2: And so the obvious question for the listeners is, well,
5:17
Speaker 2: where are the systems? You know, if I still like a,
5:21
Speaker 2: you know, jar of coffee from the kitchen, someone's going
5:23
Speaker 2: to notice. But seemingly when there's millions of dollars going
5:26
Speaker 2: out the door over a long period of time, and
5:28
Speaker 2: sometimes the frauds are one and two cents at a time,
5:31
Speaker 2: that they're the clever ones. But these sort of ones
5:34
Speaker 2: tend to sort of go under the radar for some reason.
5:36
Speaker 2: Can you explain, is there anything in the evidence which
5:39
Speaker 2: demonstrates what was the business doing through all this?
5:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I want to get to Mr.
5:43
Speaker 3: Nguyen's lifestyle too, and there's a fascinating story involving the
5:47
Speaker 3: global rock icon, Jon Bon Jovi.
5:48
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that in a moment.
5:50
Speaker 3: But what is alleged is that Gen U, when they
5:54
Speaker 3: opened up the books, found that millions of dollars worth
5:58
Speaker 3: of IT equipment, so computers, tablets, that sort of thing,
6:01
Speaker 3: had been authorised by their IT manager, Mr Nguyen. The
6:06
Speaker 3: money had been paid by Gen U for these items,
6:09
Speaker 3: and yet there's no record of these items ever arriving.
6:13
Speaker 3: So where did that money, where did Gen U's money go?
6:16
Speaker 3: Did it find its way back into the hands of
6:18
Speaker 3: Mr Nguyen after he authorised the payments? That's what police
6:22
Speaker 3: will put to the court on his next appearance at
6:25
Speaker 3: the end of the month.
6:26
Speaker 2: And what does the brief of evidence suggest happened to
6:29
Speaker 2: the money and its ultimate destination?
6:31
Speaker 3: So the brief lays out what they call a fraudulent
6:36
Speaker 3: scheme designed to enrich Mr Nguyen and his co-accused, and
6:40
Speaker 3: this is another interesting part of this story, a Geelong
6:43
Speaker 3: computer salesman.
6:45
Speaker 1: Called Keith Greenwood.
6:47
Speaker 3: Keith's shop, Ryrie Office Machines in Geelong, was the main
6:50
Speaker 3: supplier of of these computers. So Gen U buys the
6:54
Speaker 3: computers authorised by Mr Nguyen, pays the money to Ryrie
6:59
Speaker 3: Office Machines. The machines, according to Gen U, are never delivered.
7:03
Speaker 3: And then it is alleged that between Greenwood, Ryrie Office
7:06
Speaker 3: Machines and Nguyen, that's where the money ends up. In 2025,
7:10
Speaker 3: Nguyen and Greenwood, in a civil Supreme Court matter, came
7:15
Speaker 3: to a settlement with Gen U where they agreed to.
7:19
Speaker 1: Pay $ 5. 9 million back.
7:21
Speaker 3: They made the first payment on an agreed schedule. They
7:24
Speaker 3: missed the second payment on an agreed schedule. And three
7:28
Speaker 3: days after that, Mr Greenwood was found dead.
7:32
Speaker 2: Do we know why?
7:33
Speaker 3: Police are saying it's non-suspicious, but it is a very
7:37
Speaker 3: interesting element to this story. There were certainly friends around
7:41
Speaker 3: Nguyen saying that he was innocent.
7:45
Speaker 1: This is prior to him being charged. They were saying
7:47
Speaker 1: Nguyen was innocent.
7:48
Speaker 3: And it was all the idea of the somewhat conveniently
7:53
Speaker 3: now deceased co-accused. Now, police aren't buying that story because
7:58
Speaker 3: they've now charged Nguyen, but it does make this whole
8:01
Speaker 3: story fascinating to me.
8:03
Speaker 2: Well, it's one of those dictums of the underworld that
8:05
Speaker 2: you always put the bad story on the dead guy.
8:08
Speaker 2: And maybe that's happened here as well. But we make
8:11
Speaker 2: no allegations about how Mr Greenwood might have met his end.
8:15
Speaker 2: and you're suggesting no suspicious circumstances, which is the code
8:19
Speaker 2: word for suicide, and, you know, that's a very sensitive
8:23
Speaker 2: topic in these situations, but clearly Mr Greenwood was under
8:26
Speaker 2: some pressure. Did he provide assistance to the police in
8:29
Speaker 2: any way?
8:30
Speaker 1: That I don't have a lot of visibility on.
8:32
Speaker 3: They came to the agreement to repay some of the
8:35
Speaker 3: money on a without-admissions basis, so they were avoiding entering
8:40
Speaker 3: a plea, if you like, in the civil case.
8:43
Speaker 1: I mean, Ryrie Office Machines.
8:45
Speaker 3: is an incredibly humble-looking business. They are not a business
8:51
Speaker 3: you would look at and say, that's clearly doing millions
8:54
Speaker 3: and millions of dollars' worth of sales and supporting a
8:58
Speaker 3: rather large disability charity.
9:00
Speaker 1: So take for that what you will.
9:02
Speaker 3: The other part to this is Greenwood and Nguyen became
9:06
Speaker 3: very well-known and to an extent almost admired and loved
9:11
Speaker 3: figures in Geelong.
9:13
Speaker 1: For the various ways.
9:14
Speaker 3: They would support community causes. So both of them were
9:17
Speaker 3: significant financial sponsors during this time of the alleged fraud
9:22
Speaker 3: to the Geelong Football Club. And in fact, Nguyen was
9:26
Speaker 3: almost a super fan of the Geelong Football Club. He
9:29
Speaker 3: was very close friends with the players, some of the
9:33
Speaker 3: greatest players of all time. There's a photo the Herald
9:35
Speaker 3: Sun obtained of Gary Ablett Jr.
9:37
Speaker 1: 's Bucks party.
9:39
Speaker 3: Where there's a group shot sort of on the water
9:41
Speaker 3: somewhere and Nguyen and Gary Ablett Jr. are next to
9:44
Speaker 3: each other smiling at the Bucks party.
9:47
Speaker 1: There have been phone records that.
9:49
Speaker 3: I've obtained as part of my investigation which shows Nguyen
9:53
Speaker 3: making more than 110 calls to Geelong players and officials
9:58
Speaker 3: during the 2022 final series when Geelong won the premiership.
10:02
Speaker 3: And let me tell you, as a journo, it's not
10:04
Speaker 3: easy to get players and officials who are playing in
10:06
Speaker 3: a grand final on the line during grand final week.
10:09
Speaker 3: Somehow this guy was able to do it. So he's
10:11
Speaker 3: incredibly intimately involved in the Geelong footy club, both with
10:15
Speaker 3: his money and with his feet. Certainly Geelong players attended
10:19
Speaker 3: functions that he would throw at Crown Casino. So part
10:22
Speaker 3: of the question is on the Geelong Footy Club to say,
10:25
Speaker 3: if this guy's money is found to have been fraudulently obtained,
10:29
Speaker 3: and that will be tested before a court, did Geelong
10:34
Speaker 3: receive stolen funds?
10:36
Speaker 1: Well, exactly.
10:37
Speaker 2: And we make no allegations against the Geelong Football Club
10:40
Speaker 2: or any player, any names we might mention today, but
10:43
Speaker 2: these are relevant questions. What did they know and when
10:45
Speaker 2: did they know it? And we've seen over the years,
10:48
Speaker 2: fraudsters alleged and convicted, putting money into football clubs and other,
10:54
Speaker 2: they're also tax deductions, I think as well, by the way. So,
10:57
Speaker 2: but what you have laid out in the Herald Sun
10:59
Speaker 2: very clearly is a lifestyle that would shock people if
11:04
Speaker 2: they knew this man living with such largesse is just
11:07
Speaker 2: a humble charity worker, effectively.
11:10
Speaker 3: Well, one thing I think I can say confidently is
11:12
Speaker 3: the lifestyle Yang Nguyen lived far exceeds the his means,
11:17
Speaker 3: as alleged by his former.
11:18
Speaker 1: Employer, Gen U. They say the most we ever paid.
11:21
Speaker 3: Him was between $ 120, 000 and $ 140, 000 a year.
11:25
Speaker 1: His lifestyle far exceeded that.
11:27
Speaker 3: He was staying at a villa, which cost $ 4, 000 a night.
11:30
Speaker 3: He was spending up big at food and beverage restaurants.
11:35
Speaker 3: He was Somebody who was well known to Crown as
11:39
Speaker 3: being part of the high spending regular customer group. So,
11:43
Speaker 3: you know, he was living it up. He also seems
11:46
Speaker 3: to have been a very close friend of certain Crown
11:49
Speaker 3: executives and, you know, had access to places like the
11:52
Speaker 3: Crystal Club at Crown, which is a exclusive part of
11:55
Speaker 3: the casino that's only accessible to the sort of rich
11:59
Speaker 3: and famous customers that come through there.
12:01
Speaker 1: And that's where this.
12:02
Speaker 3: Story becomes even more interesting because he seems to connect
12:05
Speaker 3: at the casino with some of their rich and famous guests.
12:07
Speaker 3: I mentioned Jon Bon Jovi before. An eyewitness told me
12:11
Speaker 3: that Yang Nguyen, who on paper is a Vietnamese refugee
12:15
Speaker 3: IT worker from Geelong, hosted a private party in a
12:19
Speaker 3: $ 4, 000 a night villa at Crown Casino where he was
12:22
Speaker 3: seen with him, Jon Bon Jovi, a number of women
12:27
Speaker 3: sitting there sipping Coronas and enjoying a private time together.
12:32
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a heck of a way to come.
12:34
Speaker 3: For somebody whose backstory is supposedly so humble. I'll also add,
12:40
Speaker 3: and while I wasn't there on the night, the villa
12:43
Speaker 3: that John and Yang and the ladies were enjoying their
12:45
Speaker 3: time in had been.
12:47
Speaker 1: Specifically fitted with a stripper pole.
12:49
Speaker 2: Just a coincidence, of course. I'm sure John Bon Jovi
12:52
Speaker 2: was seen swinging around the pole just for exercise, wasn't he?
12:55
Speaker 1: That's right. Probably does no harm to Bon Jovi's reputation,
12:58
Speaker 1: by the way. Yeah.
12:59
Speaker 3: You know, just pumps up the rock star lifestyle. But
13:02
Speaker 3: Newman lived a rock star lifestyle too. And you can
13:05
Speaker 3: see him in the background of photos from crown events
13:08
Speaker 3: all through the 2000s. You know, there's a photo of
13:10
Speaker 3: him chatting with the Socceroo great, Liverpool great Harry Kuehl
13:13
Speaker 3: at the races on a derby day, the 2012 Victoria Derby.
13:18
Speaker 3: It's a photo of him chatting with the famous swag,
13:20
Speaker 3: Nadia Bartel. Incidentally, the 2012 Derby ridden home by Damien
13:25
Speaker 3: Oliver was a horse called Five and a Half Star,
13:28
Speaker 3: which it's as if that was almost a nod to
13:30
Speaker 3: the lifestyle of Cy Young-Nguyen, the Wolf of Whiteman Street.
13:33
Speaker 2: Mate, you're such a tabloid journalist.
13:34
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. I love the connections.
13:36
Speaker 2: Of course, we make no allegations against any of those people,
13:38
Speaker 2: but I think these are all reasonable questions because these
13:41
Speaker 2: are all established facts. And what's also established, and I'm
13:44
Speaker 2: sure the paper did a lot of legaling of this one,
13:46
Speaker 2: was that he had a connection with a serving police
13:48
Speaker 2: officer as well, whom we won't name.
13:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a fascinating story. A number of photos
13:55
Speaker 3: from a party held by Mr Nguyen were found. Harold's
13:58
Speaker 3: son obtained those photos, and in one of those photos
14:02
Speaker 3: was a long-serving member of Victoria Police.
14:05
Speaker 1: A detective down at Geelong. And to describe the photo,
14:09
Speaker 1: the detective.
14:11
Speaker 3: is wearing only a white bath towel in the photo,
14:13
Speaker 3: and on each arm is a woman dressed in a bikini.
14:17
Speaker 3: Victoria Police say that the policeman knew Mr Nguyen because
14:23
Speaker 3: they went to school together. They also say that there's
14:26
Speaker 3: no evidence to suggest any wrongdoing and that this policeman
14:29
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the investigation into Mr Nguyen.
14:33
Speaker 3: I also asked Victoria Police why phone records showed Nguyen
14:38
Speaker 3: I would say significant contact between the police member and
14:41
Speaker 3: Mr Nguyen, something like 23 calls across a two-year period,
14:45
Speaker 3: two-and-a-half-year period. They say that they would speak from time
14:48
Speaker 3: to time to talk about the football and birthday parties
14:51
Speaker 3: of their mates or birthdays of their mates that they
14:54
Speaker 3: went to school with.
14:54
Speaker 1: So, you know, that's that situation. But, you know, it's certainly,
14:57
Speaker 1: you know, a very.
15:00
Speaker 3: shall I say, intimate or revealing photo for somebody to
15:03
Speaker 3: have in their possession of a serving policeman. And again,
15:06
Speaker 3: I don't suggest any wrongdoing by the policeman.
15:08
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was perfectly innocent. They were just lifeguards
15:10
Speaker 2: saving him from drowning in the spa or something. So
15:14
Speaker 2: we make allegations. But I think the thing is that
15:16
Speaker 2: Victoria Police and all police forces have associations, regulations about
15:21
Speaker 2: who you're talking to, what you're doing. And I presume
15:24
Speaker 2: this serving police officer was put through the ringer about
15:27
Speaker 2: this and provided some sort of explanation. What was the
15:29
Speaker 2: outcome of all that?
15:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he at some stage, and I don't actually
15:32
Speaker 3: know when, I've asked Victoria Police when he does make
15:36
Speaker 3: a declarable association between him and Mr Nguyen.
15:39
Speaker 1: That may well have been at the very beginning.
15:41
Speaker 3: Of the police investigation into Nguyen, which begins about 2023.
15:45
Speaker 1: Or it could have been later. I'm not certain. But yes,
15:48
Speaker 1: if you are a police member and you are.
15:51
Speaker 3: Perhaps in a sporting club with somebody who's the subject
15:53
Speaker 3: of an investigation, maybe a relative is the subject of
15:56
Speaker 3: an investigation, you know, it's quite normal for a member
15:59
Speaker 3: to have to come forward and tell their superiors about
16:01
Speaker 3: that association.
16:02
Speaker 1: And that has happened here.
16:04
Speaker 2: Yes, our police officers are human beings as well. And
16:07
Speaker 2: they go to parties and they can occasionally be caught
16:09
Speaker 2: up in compromising situations. But we do expect a higher standard,
16:13
Speaker 2: I think. And we're there is unexplained wealth. And I
16:18
Speaker 2: presume this member knew of Mr. Nguyen's employment and his
16:23
Speaker 2: source of funds to some extent.
16:25
Speaker 3: But he would certainly have had some idea about Nguyen's
16:30
Speaker 3: life story, you know, that he had come from Vietnam,
16:34
Speaker 3: you know, and was a new Australian when they attended
16:37
Speaker 3: high school in the 1980s. And then 20 years later,
16:42
Speaker 3: he is living a millionaire's lifestyle. I think it's fair
16:45
Speaker 3: to say the member would have been able to observe that.
16:48
Speaker 2: It rings alarm bells, that's for sure. So let's give
16:51
Speaker 2: him the benefit of the doubt. He's been cleared by
16:53
Speaker 2: Victoria Police, but it's embarrassing. And I think it's a
16:56
Speaker 2: signal to all members of state police forces to be
16:59
Speaker 2: careful who you associate with.
17:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's not, you know.
17:03
Speaker 3: If you go to a sort of raunchy party, each
17:05
Speaker 3: to their own, but there is a different standard applied
17:08
Speaker 3: to public office holders or a police member who has
17:12
Speaker 3: arrest powers, the authorization to carry a gun at work.
17:16
Speaker 3: There is a different standard applied to someone doing that job.
17:19
Speaker 2: I think so. And no doubt with this guy's ability
17:22
Speaker 2: to get on with people, gregarious, charismatic, there's a lot
17:25
Speaker 2: of people who are diving for the Photoshop and the
17:27
Speaker 2: delete button on various social media posts and other things now.
17:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's absolutely true.
17:34
Speaker 3: I think there are organisations who hosted Nguyen, who have
17:38
Speaker 3: scrubbed their social media photos of him. But the connections
17:41
Speaker 3: still exist.
17:43
Speaker 1: On the public record.
17:44
Speaker 3: Not only are there photos and A-list events and all
17:47
Speaker 3: of this, there is horse racing connections. We reported earlier
17:51
Speaker 3: this year that Nguyen owned a series of racehorses with
17:55
Speaker 3: well-known business figures. I mean, the former head of the
17:58
Speaker 3: Victorian Chamber of Commerce and the CEO of the Melbourne
18:00
Speaker 3: Football Club Paul Guerra was a connection. The former chair
18:04
Speaker 3: of the Melbourne Heart, now Melbourne City A-League football club,
18:08
Speaker 3: Peter Sidwell, who was Mick Malthouse's manager, the footy coach,
18:11
Speaker 3: Mick Malthouse's manager.
18:12
Speaker 1: They were a connection.
18:13
Speaker 3: The former crown head of hotels, Peter Krinis, had Nguyen
18:17
Speaker 3: as a guest at his wedding. Now, again, I'm certainly
18:19
Speaker 3: not suggesting they had any knowledge of Mr Nguyen's alleged fraud,
18:23
Speaker 3: but Nguyen was able to rub shoulders with the very
18:27
Speaker 3: cream of the crop in Melbourne during this period.
18:29
Speaker 2: And I wonder... Now that everything's turned sour, will they
18:33
Speaker 2: be providing character references?
18:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that'll all remain to be seen in front
18:38
Speaker 1: of the court.
18:39
Speaker 3: But, you know, I've spoken to people who associated with Nguyen,
18:44
Speaker 3: some of which have stopped taking my calls over the
18:47
Speaker 3: course of my reporting.
18:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not surprising. You're obviously cutting close to the
18:51
Speaker 2: bone with this one, and it hasn't been widely reported elsewhere.
18:54
Speaker 2: So how did you get onto this yarn in the
18:56
Speaker 2: first place?
18:57
Speaker 1: So I heard about this guy years ago.
19:01
Speaker 3: And just that he was particularly close to Geelong Footy
19:04
Speaker 3: Club figures. Nobody really knew who he was. It was
19:08
Speaker 3: suggested that he was some Chinese billionaire. He was a
19:10
Speaker 3: crown whale. There was no suggestion that he was associated.
19:14
Speaker 1: With wrongdoing at all.
19:16
Speaker 3: And then as more and more facts started to emerge,
19:20
Speaker 3: I started to look into this a bit more deeply.
19:22
Speaker 3: He was arrested. in 2023. So at that stage, you know,
19:26
Speaker 3: it definitely became public interest. And yeah, I began just
19:29
Speaker 3: speaking to some of the women who had been asked
19:33
Speaker 3: to attend his parties. We published some of that in
19:35
Speaker 3: the Herald Sun not so long ago. And a lot
19:37
Speaker 3: of these women, one of them even compared the scenes
19:40
Speaker 3: that she saw in the Crown Villa of Yang Nguyen
19:43
Speaker 3: to the Jeffrey Epstein case in the United States. She said,
19:47
Speaker 3: you know, I've been watching all these reports of Epstein.
19:49
Speaker 3: It's been reminding me of those days back at Crown.
19:51
Speaker 3: You know, another woman said that you know, she felt
19:53
Speaker 3: that some of the behavior she witnessed was disgusting you
19:56
Speaker 3: know um sex workers orgies that kind of thing she
19:59
Speaker 3: was made to feel very uncomfortable in attending these parties
20:02
Speaker 3: and uh and we've published some of that and uh
20:05
Speaker 3: yeah it's also sort of come back to us that
20:06
Speaker 3: um There's a fair few husbands around Melbourne that are
20:09
Speaker 3: pretty nervous about what might still come out as part
20:12
Speaker 3: of this case.
20:12
Speaker 2: Well, that's it. And, you know, when it goes into
20:15
Speaker 2: open court, I'm sure you'll be there in the back
20:17
Speaker 2: with your notebook taking a few names down. And that
20:20
Speaker 2: strapline on one of your stories, sexually charged soirees may
20:24
Speaker 2: be in the cause of action divorce, things you might
20:29
Speaker 2: see in the future.
20:29
Speaker 3: There might be a few, yeah, divorce lawyers listening to
20:31
Speaker 3: us right now just preparing a new client list.
20:34
Speaker 1: Who knows?
20:34
Speaker 2: Hmm. That's about as far as we can go with that, Jan.
20:38
Speaker 2: Last we spoke, you were deep into the bar wars here,
20:42
Speaker 2: the arsons taking place, obviously connected to the tobacco wars
20:46
Speaker 2: as well. Seems to have gone a little bit quiet lately.
20:49
Speaker 2: We had Graham Banks, head of the Eclipse Task Force,
20:52
Speaker 2: in recently. And I was trying to say that a
20:56
Speaker 2: couple of key arrests, including one young man who seemed
20:59
Speaker 2: to be a lieutenant, directing this sort of crim tasker
21:02
Speaker 2: type operation, getting young people to come and do these arsons,
21:04
Speaker 2: had been arrested, awaiting trial as well. So we can't
21:07
Speaker 2: go too far into that. But it does seem they
21:10
Speaker 2: weren't that optimistic. Banks wasn't that optimistic. But I seem
21:13
Speaker 2: to think that they may be turning the tide. Am
21:15
Speaker 2: I being too optimistic?
21:17
Speaker 1: Well, the attacks basically stopped.
21:20
Speaker 3: You know, we were in April and May, essentially seeing
21:24
Speaker 3: an arson attack on a venue on a nightly basis.
21:28
Speaker 3: And that sort of more or less stopped. once the
21:31
Speaker 3: police resources were thrown behind it. Yeah, the leading theory
21:35
Speaker 3: was that, you know, somebody who's associated with the tobacco
21:38
Speaker 3: war group, an associate, Kaz Hamad's, was sort of leading
21:43
Speaker 3: those attacks on venues. I note that according to the
21:48
Speaker 3: authorities in Iraq, Hamad has now been given a sentence
21:53
Speaker 3: that he will serve in Baghdad. I also know high-profile
21:57
Speaker 3: Melburnians with some visibility in on law enforcement sort of
22:01
Speaker 3: cynical about how much liberty will be deprived of Hamad
22:06
Speaker 3: in Iraq.
22:07
Speaker 1: But, you know, we'll wait and see.
22:09
Speaker 3: I mean, I also saw that one of the targets
22:13
Speaker 3: of the firebombings, the Emerson, has either gone into administration
22:18
Speaker 3: or essentially.
22:19
Speaker 1: I saw that.
22:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, is no longer trading as it once was. And
22:23
Speaker 3: there was a theory that the firebombers were trying to
22:30
Speaker 3: destroy the businesses so they could collect the business or
22:34
Speaker 3: asset in a fire sale and run it themselves. So
22:38
Speaker 3: I also think licensing, liquor licensing authorities will be looking
22:41
Speaker 3: very closely at who's in the market for a pub
22:46
Speaker 3: after the bar wars attacks.
22:47
Speaker 2: Right. And you mentioned Kaz Hamad, who's in a jail
22:50
Speaker 2: cell in Iraq with a license for drug trafficking. I've
22:56
Speaker 2: not heard him or anyone talking about him trying to
22:59
Speaker 2: get extradited back to Australia, because if he was, he'd
23:03
Speaker 2: be facing a murder charge. Katie Tanguy, innocent bystander, burnt
23:08
Speaker 2: to death in a house with a dog, in a
23:11
Speaker 2: case of mistaken address. So it's all gone pretty quiet.
23:14
Speaker 2: But you wonder whether he's able to still direct things
23:18
Speaker 2: from there. And I suspect that his ability has been
23:21
Speaker 2: somewhat impaired. And we might be seeing a little bit
23:25
Speaker 2: of confusion, a bit of an interregnum, going on right now.
23:29
Speaker 2: And this is an opportunity for police, I'd imagine, because
23:32
Speaker 2: there was that period where Hamad had so successfully consolidated
23:36
Speaker 2: everything here over a two or three year period, the
23:39
Speaker 2: commission was really tight. Now, at least nothing lasts forever.
23:44
Speaker 2: What do you think?
23:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely think there's a power vacuum in the
23:48
Speaker 3: Melbourne underworld at the moment. That was one of the
23:51
Speaker 3: theories behind the bar wars, that the Lieutenant Hamad was
23:56
Speaker 3: seizing control in his absence and was going too far,
24:00
Speaker 3: that maybe this person was abusing drugs and was making
24:04
Speaker 3: decisions that weren't in anyone's interests, according to various underworld sources.
24:09
Speaker 3: I think it also shows that if police, and they're
24:12
Speaker 3: always under-resourced in my view, but if police do have
24:15
Speaker 3: permission to focus on a specific cause and leave no
24:21
Speaker 3: expense spared, They can make a difference. I think that's
24:23
Speaker 3: what happened here too, where they just decided, right, we
24:27
Speaker 3: can't have this. We can't have Melbourne nightlife, which is
24:30
Speaker 3: one of the draws of this city. We mentioned last
24:32
Speaker 3: time that Melbourne needs a good hospitality sector. We don't
24:35
Speaker 3: have a beautiful harbour like Sydney to bring people in.
24:38
Speaker 2: The weather's crap, let's face it.
24:39
Speaker 1: Yep, that's right, exactly. We need to be inside having
24:41
Speaker 1: a drink and having a good meal. That's what Melbourne
24:43
Speaker 1: relies on.
24:44
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think police did a really good job
24:47
Speaker 3: of targeting these attacks and stopping them.
24:49
Speaker 2: And I think the interesting part about all this is
24:51
Speaker 2: we've got this adult time for adult crimes in Victoria,
24:55
Speaker 2: where young people can be sentenced to seriously long jail
24:59
Speaker 2: terms in the county court, whereas before they were being
25:01
Speaker 2: processed in the children's court. But interestingly, arson is not
25:05
Speaker 2: one of the uplift offences. So these young people are
25:09
Speaker 2: facing three years maximum jail in the children's court, and
25:16
Speaker 2: I think we're very vulnerable to this crim tasker approach
25:19
Speaker 2: using young kids. And the answer, people say, is to
25:23
Speaker 2: lock these kids up for longer and all that kind
25:25
Speaker 2: of stuff. But boy, do you know how much it
25:27
Speaker 2: costs to lock up a kid in Victoria for a year?
25:31
Speaker 1: I'm interested to know.
25:32
Speaker 2: $ 2. 3 million for one individual.
25:36
Speaker 1: And it's unbelievable.
25:38
Speaker 2: The national average is about $ 1. 3 million. Victoria is locking
25:42
Speaker 2: out more kids than ever, and it's still high. So
25:44
Speaker 2: the people who say firm measures needed, I can see
25:47
Speaker 2: you scratching your head. It was in the Productivity Commission
25:50
Speaker 2: report earlier this year. It's a shocking thing. So are
25:54
Speaker 2: we prepared for the costs of locking up all these kids?
25:57
Speaker 2: And the fact that 85% of them are back in
26:01
Speaker 2: custody within a year anyway. So is it really? And
26:04
Speaker 2: I wonder, I think we're so vulnerable to this style
26:07
Speaker 2: of crime that I think we collectively have to find
26:11
Speaker 2: an answer.
26:12
Speaker 3: Am I being harsh in saying it sounds like we're
26:16
Speaker 3: paying for a too good lifestyle for an underage incarcerated
26:21
Speaker 3: person if we're spending $ 2. 3 million on them? I'm not
26:24
Speaker 3: spending that on my daughter and I give her the world.
26:27
Speaker 1: Right, well.
26:29
Speaker 2: You also don't lock her up at night. You might
26:30
Speaker 2: have to later on, but not now.
26:32
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it.
26:34
Speaker 2: Because the thing is, you need a lot of staff.
26:38
Speaker 2: You've got to provide education, health, all the other things
26:41
Speaker 2: that go with rehabilitating young people. Some of them have
26:44
Speaker 2: never been habilitated, let's face it. So the chance of
26:46
Speaker 2: rehabilitating them is a distant one. So it's such a conundrum,
26:51
Speaker 2: and we're locking up more and more kids in Victoria,
26:54
Speaker 2: more across the country, And let's put aside the Indigenous issue,
26:57
Speaker 2: which is the number one. I think more than 60%
26:59
Speaker 2: of kids every night in custody are Indigenous kids. So
27:04
Speaker 2: that's a separate issue. But I'm just surprised that this
27:07
Speaker 2: Krimtaska with young people hasn't gone beyond Victoria so far.
27:12
Speaker 2: It's the obvious way to distance yourself from the consequences
27:17
Speaker 2: of these heinous acts.
27:19
Speaker 3: Well, I think my impression was that the Victorian judiciary
27:26
Speaker 3: was treating younger offenders lighter than they get treated in
27:30
Speaker 3: other jurisdictions. Queensland certainly beefed up the rules around this
27:34
Speaker 3: when they had that horrible incident of the woman who
27:36
Speaker 3: was killed in, I think it was a supermarket car
27:39
Speaker 3: park a few years ago. But yeah, to me, there
27:42
Speaker 3: was a view that seemed to be going in the
27:45
Speaker 3: underworld that, you know, if you are a young kid
27:48
Speaker 3: and you do get caught for this crime, you'll either
27:51
Speaker 3: get out immediately or you won't go away for too
27:54
Speaker 3: long and you'll be back on the street ready to
27:56
Speaker 3: make some more money. And the money offered at least
27:58
Speaker 3: to a 15-year-old by the underworld to commit a firebombing
28:02
Speaker 3: was a lot more than you'd get serving fries at Macca's.
28:05
Speaker 1: So it was pretty appealing.
28:07
Speaker 2: And, you know, the thing is we can be all
28:09
Speaker 2: intellectual and debate the academic qualities of this, that and incarceration,
28:13
Speaker 2: but really at this point the public wants to see
28:16
Speaker 2: safety and that has to be above everything else. So
28:20
Speaker 2: I think it's a cost we have to pay.
28:22
Speaker 3: And I think disincentive to commit crime. You know, you'd
28:25
Speaker 3: need it to be clear to young people that they
28:28
Speaker 3: won't be treated softly, that destroying somebody's business, livelihood, even
28:34
Speaker 3: taking a life accidentally or not, as you mentioned, is
28:36
Speaker 3: not acceptable.
28:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm much more in favour of some sort of
28:39
Speaker 2: individual mentoring, intensive family intervention, stuff like that. But that's
28:44
Speaker 2: fallen out of favour. I mean, when I was a kid,
28:46
Speaker 2: the old man told me a hundred times, I'm going
28:48
Speaker 2: to send you to reform school. I didn't know what
28:50
Speaker 2: it was, but it didn't sound good.
28:52
Speaker 1: No, I got that on every holiday.
28:54
Speaker 3: We'd be on the Gold Coast and Dad would drive
28:56
Speaker 3: us past a school and he'd say, you know, if
28:59
Speaker 3: you don't shut up, we're going to drop you off
29:00
Speaker 3: there for the rest of the holiday.
29:01
Speaker 1: And we'd go, no, we want to go to the beach. So, yeah,
29:05
Speaker 1: I agree. A bit of discipline is good. Yeah, yeah.
29:08
Speaker 2: Forget the cushy private school for Seb. He's going into
29:11
Speaker 2: the local high school. Yeah, with no slur on those
29:14
Speaker 2: who've been to those institutions. But I think you're right.
29:16
Speaker 1: What do you mean? I'm not a tough-appearing kid, Adam,
29:19
Speaker 1: or what do you say?
29:20
Speaker 2: Well, you haven't been to boxing for a long time.
29:22
Speaker 1: Adam and I go to the same boxing gym, so.
29:24
Speaker 2: You're right to call me out on that. Well, I'm
29:25
Speaker 2: waiting there, and I'm punching the bag, waiting for Seb
29:27
Speaker 2: to turn up, and he's coming to Fitness Ring Richmond.
29:29
Speaker 3: Ever since you joined, you just put a dash of
29:31
Speaker 3: fear through me. I don't want to get called up
29:33
Speaker 3: for sparring with Adam Shan.
29:36
Speaker 2: You'll be safe, I think, old man. But I guess,
29:39
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is we've got to also keep
29:41
Speaker 2: a handle on the hysteria. I think every generation believes
29:44
Speaker 2: the woman. living in is the most corrupt and that
29:46
Speaker 2: young people are out of control and all this kind
29:48
Speaker 2: of stuff. And I remember there's a famous moment in
29:51
Speaker 2: Roman history where they decided that as soon as the
29:54
Speaker 2: 14-year-old boy put on the toga virilis, the white pure toga,
29:57
Speaker 2: he was now an adult and he could be tried
30:00
Speaker 2: as an adult and beaten and flogged and thrown off
30:02
Speaker 2: the rock of Tarpeia. And all that kind of stuff.
30:05
Speaker 2: And it didn't stop there. And I wonder whether it's
30:07
Speaker 2: going to stop here. This is a societal problem. It's
30:10
Speaker 2: in the breakdown of families as much as criminal opportunities.
30:14
Speaker 2: And I think anything we can do to strengthen families
30:16
Speaker 2: is a plus.
30:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, true.
30:18
Speaker 3: And I think talking about the realities of life is
30:21
Speaker 3: important too. The lifestyles we see online. lived potentially by
30:27
Speaker 3: accused frauds that sort of thing you know that's not
30:30
Speaker 3: realistic for most of us we you know need to
30:32
Speaker 3: work for a living and and that's okay and there's
30:34
Speaker 3: a nobility in that and um you know if you
30:37
Speaker 3: take shortcuts that are illegal you will be punished that's
30:40
Speaker 3: what i reckon needs to needs to be made.
30:41
Speaker 2: Clear beautiful way to tie up both stories mate i
30:44
Speaker 2: appreciate that as always seeing you in the real crime
30:46
Speaker 2: studio seb costello and seb costello on a couple of
30:50
Speaker 2: fascinating stories there the wolf of Whiteman Street. He's before
30:53
Speaker 2: the courts, so we make no allegations there, but I
30:56
Speaker 2: think it's important to understand what is happening in our
30:58
Speaker 2: courts and have appropriate and responsible discussions. If you want
31:03
Speaker 2: to report a crime, call Crime Stoppers, 1-800-333-000. You can
31:07
Speaker 2: also email me, adamshanderwriter at gmail.com. You can also follow
31:10
Speaker 2: me on Facebook and subscribe and join our little crime community.
31:13
Speaker 2: This has been Adam Shan for Real Crime. Thanks for listening.
31:20
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31:23
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