Latest / Salish Wolf / #93 David Young on Project Quiver

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#93 David Young on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

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If you have not yet purchased your first edition copy of the
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And now on with the show. Welcome to Project Quiver, a
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father daughter journey across the globe to document the
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artistry and spirit of the world's finest traditional bow
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years. I'm Todd, and Ella is my
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daughter. Together we've traveled to the
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workshops of master bow years, carving bows under their
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guidance, photographing their work in extraordinary detail,
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and preserving the stories behind one of humanity's oldest
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crafts. The result is Quiver, the Art of
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Life Through Bow Craft, a photographic and narrative
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exploration of traditional bow carving.
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This podcast shares stories and experiences of the remarkable
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individuals who are carrying forward the enduring legacy of
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the bow and arrow. The book is Quiver.
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The journey is Project Quiver. Welcome to the Salish Wolf
1:26
podcast. All right.
1:30
Well, thanks for connecting again this morning.
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So last time we attempted this, we had some technical glitches.
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We got about 20 minutes in and had to scrap it.
1:40
So we're just going to start from the top, which I don't
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remember where that was. So I guess we'll just have a new
1:45
conversation. So you are the proprietor of Big
1:51
Rock Bows, correct? Yep, correct.
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What is that? Yeah, so Big Rock Bows exists to
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share my love of self bows, primitive archery, a little bit
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of woodsmanship and just a way to connect people into this this
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awesome hobby. Is there a woodsmanship beyond
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bow craft? Not yet for big rock bows, but
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we've got some ideas doing some classes for, you know, shelter
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building, firecraft, bushcraft, stuff like that.
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Cool, Who's the we? My wife and I.
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OK. Is she into a woodcraft as well?
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She is a little bit, she's more into childcare.
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She worked at a school for a while.
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She was a counselor. So kind of big picture, we've
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got this awesome piece of property with cabins on it.
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We'd love to have more kids come up and, you know, just get it,
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get them into the outdoors. That's cool.
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Where is your property. We're, we're about 25 minutes
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South of Spokane, kind of North End of the police ecoregion.
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We're we're on a, we're on top of a mountain out here, but
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South of here it's just rolling hills.
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So got a pretty good mix. So on a.
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Bigger scale for people who aren't in this area.
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Spokane being in Washington state, somewhere near Seattle.
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Where are you in relation to Seattle?
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We're about 250 miles east, right on the Idaho border.
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Nice in the mountains there. Yeah, it's fairly mountainous
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here, but like I said, just South of us is the the Palouse.
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So it's just grasslands, real, real big rolling, rolling hills
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carved out from, you know, the great floods back in the day.
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Missoula floats. And your property is pretty big,
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isn't it? Yeah, we've got 150 acres.
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Wow, that's bigger than I remembered.
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That is so cool. How did you come across that
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land? My, my folks, he, my mom married
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my stepdad who was up here and he had 30.
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And then together we went in and a farmer.
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We know he had a little guest house and he owned kind of the
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top of the mountain. And they were trying or sorry,
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there's a conservation area near us.
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And this old farmer just being kind of anti government, he was
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looking for other buyers that didn't want to develop it, that
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still kind of wanted to maintain it fairly wild.
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It was, it was ranch land before.
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So there's there's, there's a couple of outbuildings and
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stuff, but for the most part it's just empty.
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So we, we bought it and we've essentially just made it a
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wildlife sanctuary on our own. We do a lot of weed control.
5:24
We do a lot of ponderous pine thinning, planting native shrubs
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and Forbes and grasses. So trying to kind of get it back
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to a natural state after, you know, 100 years ranching.
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Wow, so has it been fully clear cut or there's still some
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forests? There's still some forests, we
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still have some second growth trees on it.
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So 80 year old, 90 year old trees on it.
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For the most part, it's 2030 year old Pines.
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Not much a. Lot of that was just dog air
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thick and we've been sending, sending that out, getting DNR
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cost share projects done on it and stuff so.
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Yeah, no bow wood. Done.
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We've got Service Berry which is awesome.
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What is service Berry? I'm not.
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I don't know what it looks like or.
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Yeah, it's, it's a fairly spindly tree shrub.
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It's fairly hard to find straight wood out of it, or just
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big enough diameters to have lots of, you know, 2, maybe 2
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inch, 2 1/2 inch diameter trees. And it's a good boat way, very
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good flat bow, Longbow or like DD section, cross section or.
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I, I've done a couple hollow limbs out of it just because
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they're such steep crowns. Yeah.
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Or just kind of more of a elliptical cross section.
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It really just whatever the that individual piece of wood is
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capable of is what you're going to do.
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You know you're not able to get a flat boat out of it.
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At least I haven't. I haven't found one big enough
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for that. Yeah.
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Can you do heavier draw weights? Yeah, I I've made a couple £5560
7:25
out of it. I haven't pushed it any more
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than that just because that's kind of the, the neck of the
7:30
woods that I shoot in. Yeah, but yeah, it's really
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good. Cool.
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Any other bow wood options on the property?
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Nothing. Nothing ready yet.
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We've been planning black locust as I want.
7:46
To plant black locust, Yeah. How how quickly does that grow?
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It grows pretty rapidly, doesn't it?
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Yeah, yeah, we should have some. See, I planted the first ones 2
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three years ago, and they're about 8 feet tall now.
8:03
What? 2 inch still. 2 inch almost.
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Yeah, we just, we were here on Vancouver Island during the
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summer months and I was in Europe.
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I carved some black locust. And then just recently I was at
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my brother in law's who's also on the island and they had the
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stunning black locust in their yard.
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And then I just started to notice them everywhere in his
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region. And there's not very many where
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I am further South on the island, but I need to get some
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saplings. We got 10 acres and I just want
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to plant a forest of it. Yeah.
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So it's great stuff. It's really underrated.
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It's such a beautiful tree. Such a beautiful tree.
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The wood is just as rot resist in it as Osage.
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It's a little bit lighter mass weight than Osage, but you know.
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Yeah, I would in in my research for our book Quiver, we with all
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the bows that we carved with the bowyers, we had a persection on
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each bow wood that we used. And I was really intrigued to
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find out how many bow woods are used as like fence posts or in
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shipbuilding because they're rot resistant and it's really cool.
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It seems like one of the main criteria.
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If it's rot resistant you can probably build a boat with it.
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Yeah, yeah, it's funny. So honey, we planted I think 50
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saplings somewhere in there. And then this last year we took
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a trip to Illinois to visit some family and they've got Osage on
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their property. They're about, I don't know,
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three hours South of Chicago and went cut a bunch of Osage,
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brought home the trailer worth of Osage and I wanted to get
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Osage over here. It's I've had bad luck trying to
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plant seeds I bought online. So we went over there and
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they've got kids, I've got kids. I went out and spray painted a
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bunch of Osage fruit like Pokémon balls and told the kids
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to go to go catch them all. So they went out with trash bags
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and picked up maybe 500 fruit, Osage fruits.
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And we got those growing in pots here now.
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So love Osage soon too. That's awesome.
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I've got one tree that I still need to pick up for Ryan
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Gautier, amazing Bowyer here on the island.
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And he gave it to me last year and he, I forgot to take it when
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I left his place. And then I came back at a few
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weeks later and I grabbed the wrong tree and apparently what
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it was what that he had planted to commemorate the birth of his
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son. And so I took a very important
10:55
Osage. So I, I had to have that one
10:58
returned to him. And I started to go back and get
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the other one in planet. That's funny.
11:02
Yeah. But yeah, I think the black
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locust here is going to do really well.
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So I'm looking forward to this. I I've got to do that over the
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next few weeks while I'm here and get some saplings in the
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ground. Yeah, I think Osage well too.
11:14
Sorry. Go ahead.
11:15
Yeah, no, yeah, OK. At least here.
11:18
Yeah, well, we're not too far apart, so well, I'll definitely
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pull out some. Tell me a bit more about your
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property. I know you were saying you have
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a lot of different buildings on it.
11:28
Yeah. So property's 150 acres.
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It had an old 2 bedroom farmhouse on it, small like 800
11:38
square feet. And it was really rundown when
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we bought the property. So we spent some time renovating
11:43
it, but fixed up the kitchen and bathroom.
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Everything kept, kept as much as the original farmhouse feels we
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could get the, you know, I don't know when that place was built
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at least 100 years ago, but had original old growth dug floor,
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dug fur flooring. So we kept that and fixed that
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up. And that's kind of, that's kind
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of the main gathering area for the, for the camp that we got
12:08
going on. So we, we do meals out of there.
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That's where the the restroom is.
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And then we've got 4 cabins. They were old sheds that we
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converted into an Old West town. They're pretty cool, but facade
12:27
fronts on them and that's awesome.
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There's once called the jail, once called the bank one's
12:32
called, you know, the sheriff. And each one of those has four
12:37
bunks in it, a little kitchenette, heating and air
12:41
conditioning. So we can use the property year
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round and and then we got the the Bow shop, which is just a
12:49
small 2 car garage. We've got a couple of barns that
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I'm kind of in the process of fixing up.
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One of them's probably 25103 thousand square feet and that
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will be the Bow Shop once I get there.
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Sweet. Yeah.
13:07
And with that amount of property, are you still
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discovering bits and pieces of it?
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I've got a pretty well mapped out right now, but yeah, there's
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always, always stuff to learn from it.
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We've kind of, I, I used to be a biologist, so I'm fairly
13:29
familiar with kind of what just planning this kind of property.
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And as a family, we've kind of set aside certain areas, this
13:39
deer sanctuary and areas that, you know, we're managing for
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weeds. And I worked we're we've got a
13:46
few food plots in just for fun. Washington, at least in our
13:53
county, they found CWD last year.
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So you can't bait deer up here anymore.
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But food plots are OK for some reason.
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CWD. Chronic wasting disease.
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So it's a, it's a prion disease that they have found and deer
14:09
basically any served species. It's kind of a lot of it's been,
14:16
I think it was first found in Colorado like in the 70s and
14:21
then it became kind of a big deal in the Northeast.
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It's, it's 100% fatal for, for servants.
14:31
But it has like a, a very long life, like a big deer don't
14:37
start showing symptoms for sometimes 2-3 years.
14:39
So it's kind of kind of a weird one, but it's a, it's a
14:42
misfolded protein that kind of makes deer just get complacent.
14:49
They kind of lose their survival instincts and eventually die
14:54
from it. But it's very similar to mad cow
14:58
disease. And the human version is
15:02
Kretzfeld, the Occups disease, which is a neurological disease.
15:07
It, it, it's like I said, it's been around since the 70s and
15:10
it's never been documented to jump to humans, but a lot of
15:13
people are kind of scared of that just because it is 100%
15:17
fatal if you do get it. So yeah, our, our, it was found
15:23
in our county, I think 2, three years ago.
15:25
So they got rid of baiting deer, which I never, never, I was
15:32
mostly a public land hunter up until we got this, this
15:35
property. And you know, when you get a
15:38
piece of private land, then you kind of understand it's like,
15:40
oh, we should bait them. You know, it's like it's
15:43
effective. And so we baited them a couple
15:46
years and now we're doing food plots and we, we kind of set it
15:51
up so it's spread out as much as possible.
15:55
They're small food plots, several small food plots.
15:58
So try not to concentrate too many deer in one area.
16:03
But yeah, so we got food plots going.
16:05
We've got areas that we just have a sanctuary where we kind
16:10
of stay out of them there. There is that don't need human
16:15
intervention in it. There's no management needed
16:17
really kind of more the the second growth stuff that's eight
16:21
years old mature timber and good, good shrub understory.
16:25
So we kind of leave that area alone.
16:27
And then other areas where, you know, they ran cows for 50
16:31
years, we've been planting back native grasses, shrubs, Forbes,
16:36
trying to do some habitat improvement and stuff like that.
16:40
And then what is the vision that you guys have for your retreats
16:43
for bushcraft? We, we've, we've, we haven't
16:49
really nailed down on a, on a certain format yet.
16:53
But what I would really love to do is focus primarily on youth
17:01
getting, getting, you know, kids maybe 7 to 15 up there.
17:08
Because that's, that's when I really feel like you can hammer
17:10
home and really instill love for natural places and just a love
17:16
for wildlife, a love for the outdoors.
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And that's really what we need as a country, in my opinion.
17:24
Yeah, it's so important, Yeah, especially at this age where
17:27
they're all getting their smartphones and just yeah, glued
17:31
to them and have most of them are completely disconnected from
17:35
nature. Yeah.
17:36
And that's. It's heartbreaking, it's crazy
17:38
and it's, it's very hard for, for them to, to break out of it
17:42
unless, you know, they just kind of get thrown into it.
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Yeah. So yeah, we've, we've got some,
17:49
some family friends that we have up and, you know, they've,
17:52
they've done both classes with me and we got some other stuff
17:56
up here too. Got jiu jitsu mats.
17:59
We have some. Nice you do jiu jitsu.
18:01
Yeah, yeah. Sweet, what kind?
18:04
No, Brazilian. Yeah, Brazilian.
18:06
Yeah, I, I fought MMA for 3 or 40 years and then, well, that's
18:12
just just jiu jitsu the last five years.
18:16
So yeah, it's all been doggy. I've been, I've been wanting to
18:19
get more into ghee jiu jitsu, but I've got 2 little babies now
18:23
that are kind of keeping me away from the gym.
18:26
Congrats. But yeah, thank you.
18:29
How old are your kids? One and two.
18:31
Wow. Yep.
18:33
They are little boy, girl, 2 girls.
18:36
All right. Yeah, it's amazing.
18:38
Yeah, they're fun. So with bushcraft, what has your
18:42
experience been? Well, for for the, for the for
18:50
the longest time, it was just more pragmatic bushcraft, just
18:53
being being a hunter, being a traditional bow hunter that
18:57
likes to hunt public land. You kind of have to learn some
19:00
of it just by osmosis of being out in wild country, you know,
19:05
being resourceful. So that was that's kind of the
19:10
impetus of my Bush crafting and then the being on or trying out
19:17
for a loan. The TV show did you last year?
19:22
Did you? All right, Yeah, that's when I
19:26
really started, I'd say practicing bushcraft.
19:31
So, you know, shelter building firecraft, just making tools and
19:39
really just, you know, being resourceful out there.
19:42
Is is. Yeah.
19:46
It's kind of the point. So you tried out for a loan but
19:49
didn't make the cut? Yeah, no, I did make it.
19:53
I didn't make it. I was on last season, yeah.
19:57
How did you do that with a newborn and a one year old?
20:00
All right, how did your? How did you do that?
20:04
Jesus. So my bad timing it was for
20:06
sure. And yeah, I'll, I'll tell you
20:10
the story. So the casting producer saw a
20:13
photo of me on, I think it was Carson Brown's Instagram, his
20:19
Sherwood shafts. And it was when I shot a Buffalo
20:23
like 3 or 4 years ago with the self bow.
20:27
So they've, they've been reaching out to me since then
20:30
trying to get me on and it's never good timing.
20:32
And then last year, which really wasn't good timing on my part, I
20:36
decided and my wife decided like, we'll just do it, you
20:38
know. And so I that was in I think
20:45
March of last year when I tried out send in a submission tape
20:52
and yeah, got into the boot camp.
20:56
And then, you know, you're kind of doing like these.
20:58
It's all virtual. So that's a little weird.
21:02
It's like, how much can you really show on FaceTime?
21:05
But they have you do like, you know, one log fire.
21:10
So you know, you have to go out and cut, cut down a 8 inch
21:15
diameter tree and then make a fire out of only that and the
21:18
ferro rod. So that they did some shelter
21:22
building stuff, some trapping stuff.
21:25
And it's all stuff that I'm familiar with just as a hunter
21:29
and biologist and stuff. So I made it through boot camp.
21:33
That's when they boil down the gosh, they save 50,000
21:37
applicants. 50. Thousand yeah, it seems crazy to
21:41
me, but it was it was a worldwide auditions last year.
21:45
Wow. So they got a, they got a lot of
21:47
applicants and yeah, made it, made it into the boot camp.
21:53
That's when they boil it down to 30 and then.
21:55
After 30 or 30,000. 3030 thirty people, yeah, I think, I think
22:01
35 people get to the boot camp and then they pick it down to 12
22:05
from there. So there's 10 for sure people.
22:08
Then two alternates and I was an alternate.
22:11
So as the alternate, you're still, you know, you prepare
22:15
like you're going. So, you know, with as an
22:21
alternate, I, I did have holes in my game, primarily just stuff
22:25
that's illegal here. It's like you can't, you can't
22:28
use a gill net here. There's no place to use a gill
22:30
net here. So I got, you know, just wicked
22:33
good at making gill Nets and just practicing, practicing,
22:38
practicing everything I thought I'd need to know out there.
22:41
I wanted to be proficient. So it was, you know, if you're
22:48
not an expert out there, especially when you're out there
22:51
stressed out and hungry, you're not, you're not going to be able
22:54
to do well. So I, I got super prepared and
22:58
then, yeah, my daughter was born in May.
23:02
So then my daughter was born. I'm kind of like, oh shit.
23:06
Yeah. You already say, hey, I see this
23:09
one coming. But my wife was so supportive of
23:12
me, which was like, you know, awesome on her part.
23:15
And she's like, you should do it.
23:16
You've always wanted to do it. You've been talking about doing
23:18
this for years. You should do it.
23:20
I'm just like, OK. But, you know, deep down, you
23:23
know, it's like, this isn't smart.
23:26
Like, so yeah, say goodbye to my family.
23:32
You don't know where you're going till about a week before.
23:35
You get no idea? No idea.
23:37
Yeah, they send out and they don't even tell you where you're
23:40
going like until two days before.
23:44
Shit. Yeah, so they're like, OK,
23:47
you're going to the Northwest Territories.
23:49
They say that a week before. I'm like, OK, well, the
23:51
Northwest Territories is freaking huge in, you know, I
23:55
don't know what the the north to South range is, but it's, you
23:59
know, got to be at least 1500 miles or 2000 miles or something
24:02
like that. So, yeah.
24:05
And then, yeah, two days before they're like, OK, you're going
24:08
to Klavik, which is basically as far north as you can go in the
24:12
Northwest Territories. Like we're way up in the the
24:15
view from the Arctic to yeah, Arctic.
24:18
It's in the Arctic. Yep.
24:20
Crazy. So I'm stoked, stoked on that.
24:22
But yeah, saving summer time, right?
24:26
This was the end of August. Yeah.
24:27
OK. Wow.
24:29
So if you I think you left. August 25th.
24:32
If you make it the whole time, you're rolling into some cold
24:35
weather, yeah. Yeah, and it was, it was by the
24:40
time we got up there, it's like a, you know, 2 1/2 day, three
24:43
day trip just to get there 'cause you're just taking little
24:46
Bush planes up there. Wow.
24:49
And then you roll into this town of maybe 1520 houses or so
24:53
village is what it is. And yeah, you get on a boat and
24:57
then hop on a boat for an hour to get to the alone base camp.
25:03
And they've got their camp set up.
25:05
There's, I don't know, they, they, they put a lot of effort
25:09
into making the base camp, you know, somewhat comfortable for
25:12
being that remote. And we're, the 12 contestants
25:16
are all staying in wall tents and stuff like that.
25:22
Base, the base camp, the, it's called the orientation camp.
25:25
So they teach you how to film. They teach you what they're
25:27
looking for. They go over your obligations as
25:30
a contestant and hunting and trapping rules, stuff like that.
25:36
Kind of get get super familiar, well, as familiar as you can in
25:40
two weeks with the area. They'll let you go out and
25:42
explore and fish and stuff like that.
25:47
So that was going great. I was like I said, I was the
25:50
alternate. So I'm kind of like, all right,
25:53
well, here's my chance to show that I deserve to be on and.
25:58
You know, I was, was was there a chance for you to still be
26:00
selected or was it basically there?
26:02
Was still a chance, believe it or not yeah.
26:04
And I didn't know this until they get you there, but they
26:08
actually keep you two days after everyone launches just in case
26:12
somebody quits on day one, which has happened in the past
26:17
apparently. So, you know, going through the
26:24
the orientation camp, I get you talking with other contestants
26:29
are great people. Like everyone on that every
26:31
contestant on that was it was an awesome, solid person and very
26:35
skillful. And just me being who I am and
26:39
kind of who I want to be is as the I wanted to help you.
26:44
Like I didn't want to see anybody fail over something
26:46
stupid, which is not very conducive to being on a a game
26:49
show. But yeah.
26:52
So I I was helping people as nobody besides maybe a couple
26:57
other people, really haunted with traditional equipment.
27:00
Really. Yeah.
27:02
Are they are they allowed non traditional equipment on the
27:04
show? No only only traditional bows.
27:07
Like one guy had never shot prior to like a week because he
27:13
what? Was the plan for Fifth food?
27:17
Yeah, I guess fishing. I don't know, man.
27:20
Wow. Yeah, it's it's kind of wild
27:22
that but and then you you hear from like in their country, like
27:27
there's dudes from Slovenia, Portugal, Australia, New Zealand
27:37
and like, yes, there's some countries up there that like
27:39
that you can't have a bow, which is crazy like hunt, they can't
27:43
hunt there, which is, which is a bummer for them, but.
27:47
Most of Europe I don't think you can bow.
27:49
Hunt Yeah, yeah, it's wild. So were you teaching people?
27:53
I was teaching people, I was getting people tuned up.
27:56
I brought a bunch of extra broad ads and I think a dozen extra
28:01
arrows. And I was just trying to help
28:03
people building strings for them.
28:08
And I, I kind of decided halfway in that like, there's no way I'm
28:13
getting put in, like all these people are solid minus, you
28:15
know, the traditional archery stuff.
28:17
Like they were all very prepared and good people and I didn't
28:20
want to see them fail. So I, I kind of started giving
28:23
away my stuff for the show, including stuff from my like 10
28:29
item list that you're allowed to bring because I, like I said, I
28:35
was like, there's no way. Like they're going to pick me
28:37
over these people. And yeah, if you.
28:41
So then going through the camp kind of become good friends,
28:44
swapping stories with these people and, you know, we're out
28:47
hiking and shooting rabbits and giving pointers to people and
28:52
learning from them too. And yeah.
28:57
So then the launch day comes. This is after you're all trained
29:02
up on what they, they want from you.
29:04
And you get to draw from a, from a hat on what location you get,
29:10
which is they say it's 5 square miles that you get.
29:14
I don't think it was nearly that much just based on what I saw
29:19
when I was out there. But yeah, so the 10 people draw,
29:24
draw their location from AT, they all get picked.
29:28
OK, Launch days tomorrow. And so everyone's gearing up.
29:32
And me and the other alternate, which was a dude from Norway,
29:36
really cool guy. We're kind of sitting around the
29:38
campfire and I'm like, dude, this sucks.
29:42
So you you may get this far and then you have to say goodbye to
29:45
everyone and like, all right, good luck heading home.
29:49
So you, you still go out with them to the launch site, which
29:53
was a really cool scene, like cinematography and just how they
29:58
set it up. Like if everyone come out of a
30:01
wall tent and stand around a fire all dramatically and, you
30:04
know, they Hollywood it up a little bit and then you hop on a
30:07
little skiff and go across the river to where a helicopter is
30:11
going to pick you up. So we still did that as
30:14
alternates in case something did happen.
30:16
And, you know, you get in and then, yeah, you start saying
30:20
your goodbyes 1 by 1 as the helicopter comes and picks them
30:22
up and then drops them off and comes back.
30:25
So you're out there for like 4 hours, you know, just waiting
30:29
for the last one to go. And then once that last one
30:32
went, I was just like, all right, well, then it happened,
30:36
you know, tried my best. And yeah, so call my wife, call,
30:44
talk to my daughter, and, you know, I'm chatting with them.
30:48
I was like, don't happen. They're all like, oh, it's OK.
30:50
You know, whatever. At this point, it had been 3 1/2
30:53
weeks already away from my family, which I, I didn't think
31:00
was going to be as big of an issue as it was.
31:02
But man, just when you're you, you got kids, don't you?
31:08
When you're, when they're that young man, it's like they need
31:11
Mama needs you. You need them.
31:14
Like, I have no qualms about saying like I had separation
31:18
anxiety from my daughters. You know, of course, I never,
31:23
never thought you just don't, you don't know how it affects
31:27
you until you're until you're doing it.
31:31
And yeah, so I call them stoked to be coming home to them.
31:35
And ready to be home and then so I start getting all packed up to
31:42
leave and then the next day we're required to stay two days
31:48
after lunch. The next day, no word all day.
31:53
It's quiet, you know, everything's going well
31:55
apparently on their end on the 1010's in and we're we're
32:04
sitting around eating dinner that second day and the
32:10
executive producer comes down and pulls me aside.
32:14
He's like with a camera rolling. He's like David, somebody
32:18
tapped. We needed to go in just like.
32:21
Holy shit. Like, fuck, that was like the
32:26
first and foremost thought I'm just like, no, like, OK, what
32:29
about the other alternate? I'm like, I'm like, I straight
32:32
up told him like, dude, like, like I don't have my gear.
32:36
Like I gave away a lot of my stuff and like, I, I was out
32:39
there, you know, at at this point in the year, early
32:42
September, you know, it's already 20° at night, like it's
32:45
getting cold. And yeah, so I'm, I'm talking
32:50
through it. And like, what about the other
32:52
alternate? Like he's just as good as me and
32:54
he's got all the stuff. And they're like, well, the show
32:58
premise is they're, they're, they're releasing it at the same
33:03
time the World Cup is going on and they want us to be North
33:05
America versus the world. So they had five people from
33:09
Canada and America and then five people from everywhere, New
33:13
Zealand, Australia, UK. So like he he can't go in if we
33:17
want to keep that, that that story.
33:21
So I call home very then I'm like, so I basically, I said,
33:29
yes, I'm like, OK, And you know, without, without shedding too
33:37
much responsibility, you know, on my own actions like I should
33:40
have, I should have said no, like, should have said like,
33:44
dude, like this is going, this is going out with my hands tied
33:48
a little bit and like, we need you to go out tonight.
33:51
It's what they told me. So at this point, it's 6:00 PM.
33:56
All my all my gear is on the boat ready to leave.
34:00
Take it all off, try to get, you know, unpacked, repacked for
34:05
going out in the field. And yeah, get all my shit thrown
34:12
in the backpack that they that they allow you to bring out
34:15
there for forget a bunch of stuff that I don't realize until
34:19
I'm out there. Yeah.
34:23
So then then they they launched me.
34:29
And I guess from there, I can't really talk too much about the
34:33
launch because it kind of doesn't put them in a great
34:36
light. But I didn't get started until
34:40
like the go was like they drop you off and then they film you.
34:44
The go was like, OK, go, you're off, off the races.
34:48
You know, that was at like 10:30 PM.
34:51
Thankfully there's still light out up there.
34:53
But, you know, I was just kind of a sorry about that.
34:57
Just kind of a, a not a great way to start.
35:02
And just the, the, the brevity of like, you know, going home,
35:09
making plans with my wife for the weekend.
35:11
And, you know, and then the next conversation is like, you know,
35:15
3 minutes long, like I'm going, I love you, see you, see you
35:20
When I see you that, that, that really just, it took me out of I
35:25
was out of the mentally, I was just out of the competition.
35:27
Like I just. That's a tough pivot to make.
35:31
It did, yeah, I was for sure. And I I could have if I had no
35:40
it so much of something like that.
35:42
Your heart has got to be in it in line just wasn't and spent
35:48
spent I think 3 three days out there.
35:52
The the thought of going home was present every day as soon as
35:56
I stepped off the boat out there.
35:58
You know, I, you know, I, I'm a firm believer and like, OK,
36:02
well, like this feeling might go away, like the passion for
36:08
wanting to be out here might come back.
36:09
So let's, let's wait a few days. So get out there, you know, get
36:13
my, my shelter built, get a fire going, go out hunting, got trap
36:18
line set, got some fish, some some hand lines out in the water
36:25
and everything's going, you know, kind of to plan as far as
36:29
like 123 what I want to do out there in the first few days.
36:32
I was sticking to that, but, you know, mentally I just, I
36:36
couldn't get excited about it. So yeah, on day three, I called
36:42
animals like guys, like everything's fine, but I'm, I'm
36:47
tapping need to go home. So yeah, it was, it was a big,
36:52
it's a big humbling experience, which I needed for sure.
36:59
It was, it was an ego check, I thought, I thought for sure I'd
37:05
be able to put away the feelings of wanting to be home and just
37:10
get the job done. You know, because you're
37:12
competing for half $1,000,000, which is, you know, it's a chunk
37:16
of change for sure. And you know, it would have been
37:20
used for my family. So that was the the driver of me
37:25
wanting to try it anyways, aside from just the adventure, which I
37:30
want to do it again, like I've aside from how I how it started
37:34
being an all I want to want to be an alternate again,
37:36
obviously, because that's just too much of A, you know, too
37:41
much of AA stressor. But it was a great experience of
37:47
the the orientation camp was super cool.
37:49
The producers are super cool and yeah, the wild, wild experience.
37:55
And it was just, you know, there's a month up in the Arctic
37:59
and it kind of had a a crappy ending as far as, you know, what
38:04
the what the public gets to see. And a lot of the story isn't
38:08
told on the TV show because they just of course, don't want to do
38:12
that. Yeah, I don't think I told you
38:15
anything. I'm not allowed.
38:16
Like I'm, you know, this make you sign a million Ndas on
38:19
stuff. And having spoken with other
38:24
participants like Kobe Huber and Corey Hawk, to me I imagine the
38:28
hardest part when things start to get rough is that you have to
38:31
put a camera in front of your face and just film all that
38:35
shit. Like Corey had a horrible knee
38:38
injury and he's got to film his demise over like 3 days.
38:42
It took him to. Yeah.
38:45
That's just that sounds awful. Yeah.
38:47
Yeah, it is. One of them was talking about
38:50
like you, you can't really hunt because you got to set up the
38:53
cameras before you hunt. So it's like you're already
38:57
scaring away all the game, putting the cameras up you.
39:00
Know it's crazy it's the camera, the self filming thing and it's
39:05
props to people that do it. You know, Clay, Clay Hayes is a
39:08
good buddy of mine and he does it and I'm just like, you know,
39:14
try because they they hammer in. This is a story, like you need
39:18
to tell a story in everything you do.
39:20
Yeah, just getting, just getting wide angle shots of you doing
39:24
stuff isn't good enough. Like, you know, so like you're
39:28
trying to narrate and you're trying to be efficient with the
39:34
amount of energy you're expending on everything.
39:36
Again, it's like, OK, well, like I hiked 3 miles, but if it's
39:41
just GoPro footage of me walking, that's makes kind of
39:44
lame TV. So you're like, all right, go
39:46
set up camera, then walk back and then walk through the
39:48
camera, you know, so you're doing stuff like that.
39:51
And yeah, I I admire the discipline that those guys have
39:57
that can do that and still still be successful out there.
40:01
Yeah. Well, good for you for giving it
40:04
a go. And that was definitely being
40:06
the alternate does some. The good news is, is that it's
40:11
kind of a, an unspoken deal is that I am on the list for a
40:16
redemption season. So I, I made a good enough
40:18
impression that and, you know, all the producers kind of
40:21
understood that it was kind of kind of crappy, crappy way to
40:27
get started. And they're, they were
40:29
understanding, but you know, in hindsight, well, you guys, you
40:34
could have set me up a little better too.
40:36
It's like, let's take a little bit of ownership here.
40:38
It's like this is supposed to be a fair game show.
40:40
And this was definitely not a fairway to to get going.
40:44
So fingers are crossed that in 5-6 years when the girls are a
40:50
little bit older and can understand what I'm doing, you
40:53
know, you know, they'll give me a call, go redeem myself in
40:57
front of the world. The amount of the amount of, you
41:01
know, that's what I mean. It's humbling because I'm not
41:04
allowed to to give the full story to people that reach out
41:10
to me. Yeah, of course.
41:11
And a lot, a lot more happened that I didn't talk to you about.
41:13
To that I just can't talk about. Yeah.
41:17
You just have to take it on the chin.
41:18
And it's like, yeah, I suck, dude.
41:21
Yeah, yeah. Well, that was that was when I
41:24
asked Corey what his biggest take away was.
41:26
That was one of the humility was.
41:29
Yeah. Like it's so humbling.
41:31
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, well, good for you for
41:35
chasing after it and making it out of 50,000.
41:39
That's crazy. Yeah.
41:41
Yeah, it's cool. All right, well, let's steer
41:43
things back into bow craft. How'd you get into this?
41:48
Yeah. So I got started back in 2014.
41:54
That was the, that was the year I was down in, I was working out
41:58
of Lewiston, ID for Fish and Game, going to school at
42:01
University of University of Idaho in Moscow and I got a, a
42:07
summer gig, summer job working for Idaho Fish and Game.
42:13
The first couple years I was there, first couple seasons I
42:16
was there, I was working as a fisheries technician, working on
42:20
steelhead. And then the third year I was
42:24
there. So that first year just being an
42:32
outdoorsman and talking with other with other people that are
42:35
working there, come across this guy named Clay Hayes, who's a
42:39
biologist in the wildlife side. So the guy I was working under,
42:45
the fisheries biologist I was working under was really good
42:47
friends with Clay and he's the one that introduced me to Clay.
42:52
His name's Teague. Good guy and I think 2014, 2015
42:58
Clay launched his first traditional bow hunting film
43:03
called Untamed. And it's really it's really a a
43:08
story of why do this? I had haunted with compound bow
43:12
for maybe 10 years prior to that, You know, I was happy
43:17
shooting compound bow, but his, you know, his under what his his
43:23
overwhelming principle in that film is like, we do things the
43:27
hard way for fair chase reasons and just to kind of be a a
43:34
problem solver. And the amount you get so much
43:39
more out of it if you you know, it's directly the amount you get
43:44
out of it is directly related to what you put into it.
43:46
And deciding to hunt with the self bow or trad bow is kind of
43:54
the the really the pinnacle of becoming immersed in hunting and
44:03
understanding wildlife and just a a deep connection and this
44:09
tradition that we are in. So that that really inspired me.
44:12
And then I got to, you know, Matt Clay took me, he took me to
44:18
his place a couple times and showed me a shop and watching
44:22
them build bows and just became, you know, kind of infatuated
44:25
with the idea of like, man, I could I think I could do this.
44:29
So he gave me a couple staves after giving me some pointers on
44:33
what to do, how to chase a ring, and took him back to my one
44:38
bedroom apartment in Moscow, ID and started scraping on him with
44:42
some, you know, Ace Hardware junk draw knife that I bought
44:46
for 30 bucks that, you know, it's basically just a, it was a
44:52
draw knife shaped object, you know, as they are.
44:58
And yeah, I, I, I didn't quit this, this really was the
45:08
introduction. It's like I had every reason to
45:11
because I was, I was not a woodworker before I was, you
45:15
know, really had no experience in, in that kind of stuff.
45:19
And I just, I ruined so many staves and he he gave me, you
45:26
know, staves that an experienced player could have made a bow out
45:30
of. But they're really just like,
45:31
you know, you kind of understand if somebody's not watching over
45:34
you, especially in that time where there wasn't the YouTube,
45:40
the amount of bow building videos on YouTube and just just
45:45
trying to wing it. Really.
45:49
I just, I just decided like, I'm going to, I'm going to figure
45:51
this out. So yeah, after ruining those
45:54
two, I started going out and cutting stuff locally.
46:00
Man, I, I went out and you know, you read about Pacific Hue.
46:04
So I go out and find a bunch of just beautiful Pacific hue
46:07
trees, cut them down, start making bows out of them and
46:12
still talking clay showing them every every bow attempt I have.
46:17
And he's like, you know, that's what you did wrong here.
46:19
That's what you did wrong here. After you, you know, because you
46:22
at some point you just get frustrated.
46:23
Like I don't understand why I am breaking every single.
46:27
And were you working with Greenwood?
46:30
A lot of it, yeah, Because I just was impatient.
46:33
And, you know, I mentioned, well, so much of bow building
46:40
and just doing fine craftsmanship, regardless of
46:45
what it is, you know, everywhere in life is it relates to your
46:52
character, you know, and at that time, my character was like, I
46:55
just wanted to have a boat. I wanted I, I would rush
46:59
everything. I'd be so, so focused on the end
47:04
product that I would just, you know, be careless really.
47:10
So kind of in that process, it started kind of recognizing that
47:15
it's like, you know, it it I was working on myself as I was
47:23
working at the PO. That's be too philosophical,
47:26
but. Of course, no, that's that just
47:28
happens. Yeah, Yeah, it does.
47:30
And. When you become present with
47:32
something like, oh, carving requires it's, it's not just a
47:36
topical presence, it's a kind of a whole embodied presence.
47:39
And if you don't embody it, you're going to keep breaking
47:42
states. Yeah, exactly.
47:44
And you know, pretty soon, pretty soon you start, you
47:50
start, you know, taking your time in certain areas and you
47:54
know, you get drawing it back to 25 inches and then pretty soon
47:59
you're just so excited you just yank it back to 29.
48:02
It was my drawing. And you know, you're like, OK,
48:05
well, the bow just took 2 1/2 inches of SAT.
48:08
And, you know, like, I'm like, good enough.
48:12
It shoots an arrow, you know, then, you know, then I I take it
48:17
off to Clay and I'm seeing his bows.
48:18
I'm like, dude, your bows have no set, like, what's going on
48:20
here. So then he gives you a couple
48:22
more pointers and it's over the course of like, a couple years
48:26
probably and all right, maybe a year.
48:29
And then, you know, after that first year, I probably had 40 to
48:34
50 bows that were snapped in half.
48:38
And yeah, finally, it's a lot, dude.
48:42
Yeah. Like I I went nuts.
48:44
Like, really? You know I was.
48:46
I was over at Clay's place, you know, just sticking through his,
48:51
his staves and grabbing them. And, you know, he, he kind of
48:54
had, I call him C Class staves where they're just like, yeah,
49:00
like, you know, dealing with a lot of prop twist and knots and
49:04
stuff like that and would just just practice, practice,
49:08
practice, practice. And, you know, finally got it
49:13
down, or at least at that point got it down to where they
49:19
weren't just exploding on me. And you know, you start you
49:25
start launching arrows out of them.
49:27
And then that second year, I'm like, all right, I'm going to
49:29
hunt with one of these. And that was really what sold it
49:32
to me. And I was lucky enough What I
49:34
mean lucky, I mean lucky was lucky enough to to shoot a a
49:39
nice 5 by 5 Muley down there in Lewiston.
49:44
And that's really when I was like, that was full circle for
49:48
me. Like, I love building bows, but
49:52
going out and hunting with them is just, you know, it's like the
49:58
amount of emotion and story behind overcoming so, so many,
50:03
so many heartbreaking, broken bows and let alone learning how
50:09
to get proficient and shooting them.
50:11
Got invested so much time into this dream of, you know, being a
50:17
traditional bow hunter and doing it, you know, with equipment I
50:21
made is a is a very sweet, sweet moment in my life.
50:27
Oh, it's so cool. Yeah.
50:30
But man, that, yeah. If I could go back and that's,
50:34
that was really the, that was, that was really why I wanted to
50:42
start teaching people because it is so frustrating to spend so
50:48
much time on a piece of wood and have it explode.
50:51
That's part of bow building, you know, like I still break up.
50:55
Unfortunately, you know, there's hidden knots underneath the very
50:59
thin back ring or whatever. And it can be so discouraging,
51:05
especially when a lot of these guys are trying to trying to
51:08
make him out of piece of Osage that they spent 250 bucks on.
51:12
You know, I don't know what the the turnover is and wannabe
51:16
boyers, but it's probably really high, you know, And so that's
51:22
that's where my heart is with his trying to kind of save some
51:26
heartbreak and give people some, some good, some good lessons and
51:32
what works, what doesn't. And, you know, give people, give
51:41
people a spot to go over what tools they should have in, in
51:47
our, in our classes. Like I, I try to take it from,
51:50
you know, from live tree to finished bow.
51:53
Like that's we don't do that. But we have examples of that and
51:56
what what to go out and do and how to how to, how to get this
52:00
thing figured out because yeah, it sucks, especially the just
52:06
the amount of time investment if you're not getting a bow out of,
52:10
you know, not most people realize their first bow is going
52:13
to suck, but people expect to have it kind of figured out by
52:16
bow two or three, you know, and in reality is most people don't.
52:22
And sometimes I feel like I don't, you know, after doing it
52:25
for 1314 years, you know? Well, as he said, it's one thing
52:30
to make a bow that shoots but has crazy sad and an
52:34
asymmetrical tiller and versus making something like Clay Hayes
52:38
makes it's that takes a while to get.
52:41
Yeah, it definitely does. What challenges now, after 13 or
52:45
14 years, are still, if they are still plaguing you in the bow
52:50
making process, rearing their ugly head again and again?
52:56
And maybe you've made it past all of those.
52:59
Yeah, no, I, I don't think I have.
53:05
I, I still struggle to this day with pushing, asking too much
53:17
out of bows. And, you know, you start chasing
53:21
that, that speed and trying to, trying to push the envelope in
53:26
aggressive, fast shooting bows. You're, you're, you know,
53:32
you're, you're doomed to fail. It's, you know, it's not
53:34
failing. You learn from it and you learn.
53:37
But you know, many, many of really good staves have been
53:40
wasted because I'm like, all right, let's make it 2 inches
53:42
shorter. Let's make it 2 inches shorter.
53:44
You know, let's see what we can get out of this.
53:46
And you know, especially me with my gorilla arms.
53:50
You know, you're, you're just asking too much.
53:52
So I think, I think the contentness of like, no, it's
53:56
like the the whole point of this isn't to make wicked fast bows
54:00
because fast case scenario, you're like the fastest bow I've
54:05
ever made was like 194 feet per second and that bow didn't
54:10
survive shooting a 10 grain per pound arrow.
54:14
And that's still slow. You know, it's not a comp.
54:19
You're not going to get compound speed out of this.
54:20
So and that, I think that stems from coming from the compound
54:25
world and having family that shoots compound, you know, you,
54:34
you're just, you're trying to make it something it's not.
54:37
Yeah, the workmanship side of it, I wouldn't say, I don't
54:43
think I really struggle with anything, you know, other than
54:50
sanding just. Stop there.
54:52
Nobody likes Yeah, I I learned a lot from Simon Kell of South Bow
54:59
dot chapter. He's out of Switzerland, an
55:01
incredible Bowyer. And what he told me is it's easy
55:05
to make a safe bow. It's not hard to make a bow
55:09
that's going to not break and it's going to shoot.
55:11
But to make a good bow, he says you have to work at the edge and
55:16
you're always pushing the envelope.
55:17
And if you'd if as a bow you're not pushing the envelope, you're
55:20
just always going to have mediocre bills.
55:23
And so I think what I've experienced, and I don't have
55:26
nearly the experience of you or other other bow years I've
55:29
worked with, but it's hard to know when you are going beyond
55:34
the edge because really the only time I think you can tell is
55:38
when the bow fails. Oops.
55:40
I went over the edge. But it's like having that
55:44
balance where you're right on the edge and being experienced
55:47
enough to see it and know like this, I can't go beyond like
55:50
this is the Max. I just just finished yesterday,
55:54
my most probably character bow, and it was Ryan Gautier last
55:58
summer gave me a bunch of staves that have been hanging out in
56:00
his workshop forever. And this is a piece of Pacific U
56:05
with three fairly large knot holes.
56:08
I was dead straight, but with really big knots and one of them
56:11
right in the hand, like, how am I going to work with this?
56:14
And so I just took my time and I ended up making a beautiful bow.
56:18
But the other thing is the stave was quite short.
56:20
My draws 29 also on the stave, I think was only like 69 inches.
56:25
And I was making an English long bow.
56:27
And in my experience, it should probably be 74 inches and but I
56:33
did it and it's 61 lbs and it shoots great and I'm so happy
56:39
with it. But I couldn't have done that
56:41
probably even a year ago before starting Project Quiver and
56:45
getting all the experience with the bowyers I worked with.
56:47
I don't think I could have done that.
56:49
I would have made some stupid mistake and it still may blow up
56:51
on me. I've only shot about 50 arrows,
56:53
so it it still might happen. But yeah, it's a, it's a
56:58
beautiful humbling. Pursuit.
57:00
Always. It is.
57:01
Yeah, it is for the. For the set, I just interviewed
57:06
Kevin Hawkins, who runs the Primitive Archer for him and
57:09
I'll give him a little promo. He's got a set calculator that
57:12
he's putting on the forum, which is an app.
57:17
And So what he has figured out and I'll, I'll post his podcast
57:21
probably the week before this one goes out so people can
57:23
listen to that directly. But he's figured out a formula
57:28
of surface area that allows someone to know how much surface
57:33
area they need on the belly of their limbs in order to not take
57:37
set and sounds pretty cool. It's based on the it's based on
57:41
the specific density of the wood and other parameters that you
57:44
enter in, such as the draw length and the desired weight
57:48
and the length of the bow. And anyway, it's a calculator.
57:50
It tells you exactly how much that that belly wood surface
57:54
area needs to exist. So.
57:56
Wow, that sounds fascinating. Yeah, yeah.
57:58
Look at that. Yeah, I love the, I love
58:01
learning, like diving into the minds of different bow years
58:04
because everyone has such different styles and techniques.
58:07
And yet at the end, we're all kind of when we're making
58:09
primitive bows, we're all doing the same thing.
58:12
We're all getting kind of to the same conclusion with hopefully a
58:15
high, high performance, beautiful, functional bow.
58:19
But how people get there, it's really, really cool to see the
58:21
different ways. Yeah, definitely.
58:24
Tell me a bit more about your workshops.
58:27
What? What are the opportunities for
58:28
people? Yeah, so we we try to do right
58:32
now one workshop a month. We've got we've got three
58:38
options now. We've got a 2 day board bow
58:42
class. So people come in and this is
58:47
really geared towards people that, you know, maybe just don't
58:50
want to spend a whole bunch of money, but still want to bow
58:54
don't have much woodworking experience.
58:56
So they come in with a they come in on a Friday and are given a
59:05
either white oak, Maple, one other take one, I can't remember
59:16
the other one, but it's glued up.
59:17
It's got a handle section glued up on it and rawhide on the back
59:21
of it, so they come in and then just kind of go over shaping
59:24
handle tillering. So it's already it's already
59:28
glued for them. Already glued for them, just
59:31
just a quick in and out two day thing one night.
59:36
So at the end of that they can go take home something.
59:39
Yeah, that's our, that's our most inexpensive class.
59:44
Really, really good value. We still provide, you know,
59:47
lodging and meals for them while they're here.
59:51
The next step up is kind of the the real bow workshop, stave
59:56
workshop. So three day, three night people
59:59
come in on a Thursday night and they get to pick from 200 and
1:00:07
5300 staves. Find one that speaks to them.
1:00:12
I'm there with them kind of giving them pointers and you
1:00:15
know what, what they can expect from the state that they're
1:00:18
picking. And they spend the next, the
1:00:23
next three days making a bow out of it.
1:00:26
So it's 10, probably 10 hours a day in the shop.
1:00:32
Every day while they're there, they're got, you know, loads of
1:00:35
bows on the wall. We've got a mile long 3D course
1:00:39
with 25 targets on it to get into the shop.
1:00:42
They can go shoot their bows and do it do around in that class.
1:00:48
We do a little bit of arrow making too.
1:00:50
I they that class included in that class is 3 arrows that they
1:00:56
make. So just from, you know, Sherwood
1:01:00
shafts dug for unfinished shaft to three finished arrows in that
1:01:05
time too. So if they take all my bow that
1:01:08
they made and three arrows that they made in that one and then
1:01:12
the five day class that has the same Thursday start date, but
1:01:17
they stay till Tuesday. And that's more geared towards
1:01:20
people that have some experience building bows and, you know, are
1:01:28
looking to push the envelope a little bit with recurving, you
1:01:34
know, doing done a couple bamboo back bows in that class.
1:01:41
We've done. I got one guy that's coming
1:01:44
back. He did a five day, He's doing a
1:01:46
sinew backed juniper bow. So the first five days he was up
1:01:50
here getting that tailored and seen you backed.
1:01:55
We got a tiller maybe to, I don't know, 15 inches or so,
1:01:59
just just starting to bend. And then we seen you backed.
1:02:01
It's who's coming back for a three day in a couple months to
1:02:04
get that bow finished up. Nice takedown bows.
1:02:08
We do takedown bows in that five day class too.
1:02:12
Yeah. So that's more that's more
1:02:13
geared to people that, you know, want to really make something
1:02:17
special. Yeah.
1:02:19
How did you gain the knowledge and know how to do all these
1:02:22
different styles of both? Did you have other teachers
1:02:25
resources or was it just all trial and error?
1:02:28
A lot of trial and error. Thankfully where we where we
1:02:36
live, you got access to some pretty good wood.
1:02:40
So fighting staves hasn't been too much of the problem.
1:02:44
So lots of trial and error and then lots of reading then like
1:02:49
just reading forums, primitive Archer Facebook groups, you
1:02:56
know, traditional employer's Bible, Clay's book, traditional
1:02:59
lawyer's Handbook. But yeah, essentially just
1:03:04
reading and self self-taught. Awesome.
1:03:07
That's incredible. What are your favorite Beau
1:03:09
Woods? Yeah, that's tough.
1:03:17
I I think it's hard to be, it's hard to beat Osage man Locust is
1:03:27
right there with it. Pacific U Pacific UI, it's the
1:03:34
most it's the most beautiful in my opinion, but just the kind of
1:03:40
hunting I do, it's just not conducive to go out there with
1:03:44
something that's not super durable.
1:03:47
They get they get banged up pretty hard.
1:03:49
So what I what I'm usually hunting with is Osage or Locust.
1:03:55
But you carve pretty much anything you can.
1:03:57
Yeah, dude, anything depends on. Yeah, that's awesome.
1:04:01
We've got out of that stave collection and stuff.
1:04:05
I've made stuff from the serviceberry vine, Maple, ocean
1:04:10
spray, black locust, honey locust, wild plum, crabapple,
1:04:17
Osage, juniper. There's, there's a couple more
1:04:24
in there. But yeah, literally, literally
1:04:25
everything and everything. Now, I, I, you know, part of
1:04:29
the, the romance of this is, at least for me, is how, how
1:04:35
quickly can I make a good. I always play the scenario in my
1:04:38
head. It's like, you're right.
1:04:39
You don't have a bow on you. You're your bow, bro.
1:04:41
Go figure it out. So, you know, every time we're
1:04:44
out camping, which is fairly frequently, I try to make a bow
1:04:47
while I'm out there with a knife, you know, so anything you
1:04:50
can find, you know, I'm, I'm sitting around the campfire
1:04:53
drying, drying a stave and whittling on it.
1:04:56
So yeah, anything. Are you selling bows as well as
1:05:02
teaching workshops? I'm still, we are, we are
1:05:05
selling bows. I think we've sold maybe 10:10
1:05:10
to 12:00 somewhere in there since Big Rock has launched last
1:05:15
year. It's not something I really
1:05:16
advertise. It's just, you know, people
1:05:19
sending, sending messages to me wanting bows, not able to make
1:05:23
class. It's something I'm going to
1:05:25
develop more. So we've been working on a
1:05:27
couple of models just to make reproduction the custom bow
1:05:32
thing. That's what I've been doing.
1:05:35
People, people come in with specific requests on what
1:05:37
they're looking for. I don't know the the time
1:05:42
required and all that coordination is really kind of a
1:05:44
limiting factor on that and. That's so hard.
1:05:47
It is, it's very hard. So we're going to have probably
1:05:51
3 models that I'm just going to have, you know, till arm out to
1:05:55
like 70 lbs and then till arm reduce weight based on what
1:05:59
people want. So there's not too much too much
1:06:02
of A delay there. We're gonna have a a reef
1:06:05
reflexed reflex tip Longbow, D flex recurve, and then just a
1:06:13
straight Longbow. Yeah, yeah, those custom bows,
1:06:19
I've I've talked to so many Bowers who have tried to get
1:06:22
away from custom orders because it's just you get 75% through a
1:06:26
bow and realize, no, it's not not gonna work for this
1:06:29
customer. It's like shit.
1:06:31
Yeah, and it's like there's, it's, it's time consuming, man,
1:06:35
you know, you know, it's if you're trying.
1:06:38
I, I had one guy, you know, he ended up paying almost 3 grand
1:06:43
for his bow. Wow.
1:06:44
Because by the time, by the time I'm all done with it and you
1:06:47
know, he wanted the bee's knees, everything and rare materials.
1:06:52
You know, I, I, you know, I told him I'm front what it was going
1:06:56
to cost and he still wanted to do it.
1:06:58
But it's a it's a different it's a different audience than you
1:07:02
know, me or you where it's you know, we're not going to drop
1:07:06
through your hand on a stick bow, but some people will.
1:07:09
And you know, like we did some cool.
1:07:11
I did some really cool stuff with it, like it had a a Walrus
1:07:14
Tusk, Aeropaths and. So he.
1:07:17
Just like, just like rare, you know?
1:07:20
You just had a Walrus Tusk flying around, no?
1:07:22
I found, I found one on eBay from somewhere in Alaska and
1:07:27
bought it and cut it up. And yeah, so he, he, yeah,
1:07:33
different strokes for different folks.
1:07:34
Yeah, I I love making beautiful bows like that.
1:07:37
But like I said, they, they take a long time.
1:07:39
So you got to got to pay for it too.
1:07:41
Yeah, what tools are you using mostly?
1:07:47
99% hand tools, or sometimes they'll bring some, you know,
1:07:51
cutting up forward and stuff. Bring it up and cut it with
1:07:53
bandsaw. But yeah, draw knives, wrasp
1:07:57
figures, rasps, Kart scrapers, spokeshave sometimes, yeah.
1:08:04
Have you found any tool that is kind of your go to that you
1:08:08
recommend for all bow years? For probably the first five
1:08:17
years of building bows, I was only using a draw knife.
1:08:21
So draw knife inferiors were asked for, kind of.
1:08:25
You don't need them, but you need them.
1:08:28
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to do without those.
1:08:35
Well, cool, man. Yeah.
1:08:38
What's do you have anything you want to add?
1:08:40
Any upcoming events? Actually have a workshop
1:08:42
starting tomorrow, don't you? Yep, Yep.
1:08:44
We got a a three day. We got four people coming up
1:08:47
tomorrow. How many of those do you offer a
1:08:51
year? Do 1 every month, minus
1:08:55
September because I'm out in the woods chasing stuff with him.
1:09:00
Yeah, one, one a month. The dates are always posted on
1:09:04
our Facebook, Instagram website, bigrockbows.com at Big Rock
1:09:08
bows. And, yeah, in the future, I
1:09:13
think next summer we might try to do kind of a rendezvous kind
1:09:16
of thing on our property. So that sounds checking back.
1:09:19
Yeah. Yeah.
1:09:20
Invite a bunch of people up and do a big camp out.
1:09:23
We've got a couple nice, really big flat benches that we can
1:09:27
have, you know, bonfire swap stories, shoot the 3D course,
1:09:31
you know, build both. Yeah.
1:09:33
That sounds awesome. Yeah.
1:09:35
I'll leave you with a a philosophical question.
1:09:38
Answer it any way you want. What has bow carving and or
1:09:43
archery brought to your life? I think I think so much of it
1:09:47
and why I'm so drawn to it, It's it's meditative.
1:09:51
And, you know, I find myself laughed in.
1:09:55
So I'm scraping on a bow, thinking about, you know, life,
1:09:59
thinking about kind of what I alluded to earlier is like it,
1:10:03
it shows so much of your character and doing your best
1:10:07
and, you know, trusting, trusting a process and not
1:10:12
rushing things and, you know, showing you that you really are
1:10:16
capable of making something really, really freaking cool,
1:10:19
man. Like, I kind of, I don't know, I
1:10:23
do have this tendency actually to, to kind of be so focused on
1:10:29
what's next that you don't really appreciate what's going
1:10:31
on in front of you and having that time where it's like, no,
1:10:35
it's like you're scraping on a bow with the next three hours.
1:10:38
Like it's, it's what you're, you're doing.
1:10:40
And a lot of times, you know, I, I won't have any music on, just
1:10:45
be listening to, you know, tools meeting wood.
1:10:49
And it's a special, special thing, very protective of my
1:10:55
time with it because it is, I think it's good for it is good
1:10:59
for me. Like it's, it's, it's quiet
1:11:01
time. And yeah, super, super special.
1:11:07
Thanks. Thanks for sharing that.
1:11:09
Do you have any last thoughts, questions, anything else before
1:11:13
we sign off? No, man, I I'm excited to get a
1:11:16
hand hold of your book. That looks pretty pretty
1:11:19
stinking awesome. Yeah, we just got our advance
1:11:21
copy two weeks ago and it's it's beautiful and I'm petrified of
1:11:28
typos. So the editing process, I I must
1:11:32
have read through it. I don't even know countless
1:11:34
times. And so now that I have the book,
1:11:37
I'm really scared to read it. Like if I've had a tight fall,
1:11:42
I'm going to be crushed. But so far I've made it through
1:11:44
probably 75% and it's haven't done any yet.
1:11:47
So that's good. But but yeah, we're really
1:11:49
stoked to have it. And it's been such an honor to
1:11:53
be able to have this project, to share it with my daughter and to
1:11:57
meet so many amazing bowyers. So we're at this stage we're,
1:12:02
we're planning hopefully for a Volume 2.
1:12:06
We need to make sure Volume 1 does well enough and has
1:12:10
received well enough that it's worth it.
1:12:11
But it's been such a an amazing journey that we would love to
1:12:15
continue with it. Right on, man.
1:12:17
Yeah, well, we'd love to have you up at the shop sometime.
1:12:20
Come, come spend some time with us.
1:12:21
Build a bow. Absolutely.
1:12:24
Yeah. Yeah, we're not that far apart,
1:12:25
so. No, we're not.
1:12:26
That happen. All right, David.
1:12:29
Well, thank you so much. Yeah.
1:12:31
Thank you, Todd. Thanks for listening to Project
1:12:39
Quiver on Salish Wolf. Follow our journey on Instagram
1:12:42
and YouTube at Project Quiver Official as we discover the
1:12:45
world's most extraordinary traditional bow years, and join
1:12:48
our newsletter at projectquiver.com.
1:12:51
Quiver, The Art of Life through Bow Craft, our photographic and
1:12:54
narrative exploration of traditional bow carving
1:12:56
published by Trope, will be available in fall 2026.
1:13:00
We are honored to share with you the beauty, tradition, and magic
1:13:03
of the bow and arrow. The book is Quiver.
1:13:06
The journey is Project Quiver. This is the Salish Wolf podcast.