Latest / Beautifully Complex / 276: Executive Function Rundown, with Seth Perler, M.Ed.

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276: Executive Function Rundown, with Seth Perler, M.Ed. · Beautifully Complex

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Kids with executive function challenges. They can be mislabeled as, Oh,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: this kid's lazy. They're not motivated, they're not disciplined. They
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: just don't try hard enough. They just need to work harder.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: They just need to apply themselves. They just need to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: care more about school. If they just don't care, if
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: they would only care, everything would be okay. What the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: misunderstanding is about is that this has to do with
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: skill sets.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hey, everyone,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am really very excited
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: to be introducing you all to Seth Perler. I cannot
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: believe that I haven't had Seth on the podcast yet.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know how we've managed that. But you're going
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: to learn all about executive functioning, which is so crucially important.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I think as a parent of a kid with ADHD
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: or autism or learning challenges, so Seth, will you just
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: start by letting everybody know who you are and what
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: you do, and we'll dive into it.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, Penny, good to see you. Penny's awesome. And
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: hello parents and teachers, therapist, anybody else who's out there
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: helping kids. My name is Seth Perler, obviously called Seth
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Purler dot com. But what I do, my life is
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: dedicated really to serving kids who struggle, kids who struggling
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: in school. And I was teaching for twelve years of
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: master's in gifted education and special education, taught gifted ed,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: special ed, typical ed, this kind of school, that kind
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of school. I had a big teaching career and just
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: always have had a heart for kids who are struggling
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: because that is that was me. I was a kid
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: who struggled in tremendously. I didn't know about ADHD or
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: executive function or any of these things. I just thought
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: of myself as a lazy failure and it was pretty
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: destructive in my life. And I started working with kids
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: by accident and fell in love with it, and my
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: life's been dedicated to working with kids since I don't
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: know what nineteen ninety eight or a long time.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: So now that's what I do.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I really help kids who have executive function challenges, regardless
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: of whether or not there's a diagnosis, and regardless of
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: whether or not those of you listening have heard of
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: executive function, because most people haven't. So part of my
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: mission is to get the term executive function into the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: vernacular because it is so important. So that's why I
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: have a summit called Executive Function Summit dot com where
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: we have a bunch of amazing humans teaching about how
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: to support kids, including Penny and might have something called
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Executive Function Lab. I have a community, courses and all
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: kinds of things to support people, But ultimately that's what
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: it's about. I don't like to see kids struggle. Neither
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: we have the know how, and we have some outdated
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: methodologies in education and in society and culture and a
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: viewpoints about kids and learning and how things quote should
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: be that really hold a lot of kids back. And
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in seeing kids really shine yes.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Aim into that bizah whatever. We talk so much about
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: that here on the podcast, about how the systems are
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: kind of failing our kids, and so we're trying to
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: educate right and help people to understand when kids are
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: struggling that they're struggling. They're not lazy, they're not dumb.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: They need help. So we'll link up everything everywhere that
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: you can find Seth all the great work he's doing.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It will be in the show notes. I'll give you
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: that yurl at the end of the episode. For now,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I think, where do we start? Do you want to
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: start by defining executive function? I think that you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: so many people don't know the term, and it makes
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: so much sense when they understand and what it is.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I remember, I've probably talked about this on the podcast before,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: but my own kid in high school had a new
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: special ed caseworker or something. It was some new position
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that was thrown on us. And she came in and
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: she had been teaching special ed for twenty five years.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: She had never heard the term executive function until I
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: used it in a meeting twenty five years and thankfully
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: she was really interested in learning more about it, and
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: she went and she read and she wanted to understand.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: But people don't know this term, so how do we
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: help them understand it?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: The place to start for me is not to start
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: with the definition, but to start with what the problem
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: looks like. Because I think as parents are listening to
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the first few minutes of this episode, I think you're
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: going to want to know should you even be listening
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: to the rest of it? Is this relevant to you?
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So every human being has executive function. Dogs have executs function,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: cats have executive function. It has to do with the brain.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: But I'll talk about that later. I'm going to talk
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: about when somebody has executive function challenges or executive function
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: struggles or executive function developmental delays, whatever terminology people use
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: to describe that sort of thing. I'm not so interested
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in the actual terms. I'm interested in how this impacts
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: a kid. How do we know if this is something
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you should be concerned about. So here's what we see
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: kids with executive function challenges. They will struggle to organize stuff,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: to plan, to follow through, to be prepared, to be
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: on time, to get out the door, and these struggles.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I want to make it very, very very clear that
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: these struggles are relative to same age peers. So if
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: you have a young adult, you can still ask these questions.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: If you have a high school or if you have
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a preschool, you can still ask these questions. Most parents
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: don't tend to find out that their child has executive
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: function challenges if they even do it all, because often
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: it's mislabeled, as we said earlier, to things like lazy
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and this, that and the other. But if a child
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: has these struggles, oftentimes it becomes a real concern in fifth, sixth,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: seventh grade. Oftentimes not always. And what we see at
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that age is once kids are in around sixth grade,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the quote handholding stops and kids are expected to perform
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: at a much higher level. So the teachers aren't really
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: giving as much support in terms of making sure things
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: get turned in. They're just sort of expected to turn
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the thing in, to do their homework, to be more independent. Well,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: kids with executive function challenges again I said that they
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: can be mislabeled. They can be mislabeled as, oh, this
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: kid's lazy, they're not motivated, they're not disciplined. They just
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: don't try hard enough. They just need to work hard.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: They just need to apply themselves. They just need to
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: care more about school. If they just don't care, if
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: they would only care, everything would be okay. Why don't
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: you care about school? Why don't you care about your grades?
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: When?
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: And so, what the misunderstanding is about is that this
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: has to do with skill sets. So, for example, you
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: can see if you're watching the video of this, that
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I have guitars behind me.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: I love guitars.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: If I handed you a guitar or any instrument that
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: you don't play and said go ahead and play this,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and you were trying to play it, and I said
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: try harder, you're being lazy. Why aren't you doing it
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: this way? There are so many nuances to guitar. Most people,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I think ninety percent of people who start guitar quit
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: within a year because it is a difficult instrument hard
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and you can lacker a couple of chords, but you
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: plateau pretty fast, and similarly, those are skills. But on guitar,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: these are tons of skill sets. For all of you listening,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: you have hobby areas or areas of expertise where you
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: have super nuanced skill sets. Well, executive function skills are skills.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So to say that the kid's lazy, unmotivated, Y, yeah,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I bet they're not unmotivated with things they're interested in.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk about what the problem looks like.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: First grades falling the same pattern each semester, the pattern
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: often gets worse that disorganization, can't find things, don't know
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: what's for homework, don't have a realistic perception of how
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: long the homework or the expectation takes. Resistance to doing
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: tedious things that seem abstract to them, even though they
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: may seem concrete to us. So things like that, so
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: again relative to their peers, that they're really in a
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: different place with these sorts of things. Now, now we
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: can get into a bit of a definition of it,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to use the term executive function. And
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: let's look at the word execute or executive and think
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: about a business executive and what do they do. They
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: make sure that things are executed upon. They actually aren't
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of the execution, but they are making
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: sure the execution gets done. And what happens with executive
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: function is that the frontel over with the brain or
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the pre frontal cortex, the front third or so of
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: the brain right behind your forehead. If you put your
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: hand on your forehead right now, that big area of
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the brain helps us to execute tasks. It helps us
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: to do the things that are required for execution. So
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: let's imagine a task like let's say cooking a great
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: meal for some friends that are coming over. That requires
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of execution. It requires planning, going to the
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: grocery store, making sure you have what you need, make
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: sure the dishes are clean so that when they come
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: there you have something to serve the food on. Making
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: sure you have the pots and pans and things that
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you need. Okay, So it requires a lot of planning,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: requires a lot of organization. Can you find these ingredients?
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Can you find the things that you need to have
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: the dinner? It requires planning by inviting people, telling them
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: the correct address. It requires time management. It requires priorities.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: If you feel like doing something else, but they're going
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to be here in a few hours and you just
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: want to edge out and watch a great movie, well
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you're probably not going to do that because you're going
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to prioritize this thing.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Well hopefully, but anyhow.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Executive function is how the brain helps us to execute tasks.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: And they're thirteen or fourteen executive functions I talk about.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Some experts say there are three, five, eight, ten, doesn't matter,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: but I define them as thirteen or fourteen. And I
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: say that loosely because I don't really care. It doesn't matter.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I want you the parent, the teacher. Whoever, I don't
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: want you to memorize the five or the eight, or
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the three or the thirteen. I want you to understand
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: how this impacts the child and what you can do
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: to help the child. All I care about I can
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: give you all this information on the perfect definition of it,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: and all that Who the heck cares? All I care
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: about is do you have tools to help the kid?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: So when I talk about thirteen year dron and fourteen
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: and maybe it'll be fifteen next year, who cares? What
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: it's about? With the actual skill sets that I look at.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: It could be the planning, the organization, the impulsivity. But
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the other side of impulsivity is called inhibition. So holding
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: back and not being impulsive. To me, that's still the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: brain doing the same thing, two size the same coin. Attention, focused, concentration.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You could look at the other side of the coin
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: on like I could say attention, but that's the same
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: thing as concentration or focus, and then the opposite of
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: that is not paying attention or distractability or So we
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: have all these words that.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: People can get tied up in. I do not care
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: about that.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I care about you thinking, does my child have trouble
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: executing getting important things done when it's not a high interest,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: fun or interesting task, but it's important for their life
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and their well being and their future. Do they have trouble,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: legitimate trouble relative to their peers getting those things done
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and knowing that, again, it's not a shame blame thing
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: where we're saying you're being lazy, Stop being lazy, work harder,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: try harder, stop messing around. Focus more like these sorts
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of comments that misunderstand the problem.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: But we're looking at how can we help them.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Learn skills executive function and skills, planning skills, organization skills,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: prioritization skills, self starting, task initiations skills, followed through skills,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: task completion skills. You can look at these as skills.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Set's once you everybody who's listening right now, if you
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: want to make a list of all the things your
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: child you know is struggling with and then write down
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: what skills they would need to be able to do that,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: that will give you a much more concrete way of
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: knowing how to support your child. That thing that you
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: just said right there. If you're listening to this and
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: you want to back it up, thirty seconds might be
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the most important, actionable, implementable thing.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: I've said, m h, so.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Much stuff, So many things right go into executive.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Functioning, rightick ramble.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: No, it's just it's a lot, and it has to
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: be a lot because it's what governs us getting things
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: done right. So of course there's gonna be a lot
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: that goes into that. One question that I would have
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: as I was listening to you is can you always
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: teach the skill to the level of maybe peers who
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: are neurotypical, meaning it's definitely part of their neurology. So
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: can they get all the way to being say, super
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: organized if they're really lacking organization, or is it something
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: that they can sort of improve but it may not
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: ever get to that super level.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those are kind of two questions because can they
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: get to be super organized? As one question, can their
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: brain be at the same place as a neurotypical kid
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: with exceptional executive function? So I'm going to use the
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: guitar analogy again. I'm a decent guitar player. I've been
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: playing for a long long time. I will never in
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: my entire lifetime be as good as let's say, air
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: clapped in or Bbking or so no matter how much
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I play for how many years I have left on
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: this planet. So now that's not a brain development thing.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: It's a time thing and how much time. But the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: more time that we help them do this, the better
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the skills get the user to lose that. The brain
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: is learning skills, the brain is making connections, neurons are
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: connecting together when they're practicing things. That gets better as
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: far as somebody with weak executive function or executive function
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: challenges or developmental delays, or somebody who's had a brain
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: injury that has impacted executive function, because a lot of
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: brain injuries happen because of an impact on the front
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: of the head, which is where the frontal lobe is
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: where executive function takes place. So any of these things
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: that impact executive function, I'm not really concerned with how
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: do we improve I am concerned with how do we
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: improve brain function, But my brain's not really thinking about
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: how do we get them to that level of their peers.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I have the most boring term for what my goal
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: is for students. This is where I'm headed with everybody,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: is to this one place with the student. Before I
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: define that place, many I'm going to tell you what
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I want for the parents, because the parents are going
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: on a journey, right. The parents start off on the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: journey where they're saying, oh, my gosh, I'm concerned about
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: my kid. Is my kid going to be okay? How
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: are they going to make it in this world? How
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: are they going to be an adult? How are they
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: going to keep a job, how are they going to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: keep a relationship, how are they going to so? And
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: these are real concerns that parents are petrified about, and they,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: as they quote, should be because these are real consequences.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: The consequences of legitimate executive function challenges are real. And
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: when kids are misunderstood and it's blamed on the other things,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and they feel horrible about who they are, and it's
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: this incredible human being with all these strengths and talent.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: So anyhow to get back to where I was headed
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: with that, I want the parents to get on their journey,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: to get to the point where they breathe a sigh
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: relief and they go, my kid's going to be okay.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: So getting back to the goal for the kid, where
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the journey is going to is this the super boring
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: term good enough executive function.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: That's all. I want the kids to have enough executive function.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: That's all they need.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, Now, imagine somebody who leads a really cool company
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that helps so many people in the world, and imagine
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that they have ADHD really severe executive function challenges. But
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: they are a great visionary and they are motivating to
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: people and encouraging and YadA YadA. Well, they're not executing
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: on certain things, but they're in their lane. They're playing
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to their strengths. They have found where they are in
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: the world, and they have people who are better at
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: executing doing a certain execution. Now that doesn't happen in school. Obviously,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: you're expected to do all of these things. School is
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: not usually strength based. Unfortunately, it's very deficive focus.
• 16:46
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• 18:25
  Speaker 2: e X, you know I get the question all the time,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: like can executive function not be cured? But you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: can I get my kid to that sort of air
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: quotes normal place? Right? And I from my experience with
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: my kid, he's never gonna have like that super high
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: level of like organization. His organization is almost nil, right,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: So even at twenty one, he's still struggling with that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: And what we work on is how does he do
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: the thing that he needs to do in life successfully well?
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: To those can we use? What strategies can we use?
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: How do we get to good enough? Right? Just as
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: you were saying, But I'm so thankful that you said that,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: because I think teachers and parents need permission to not
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: always sort of reach for that ideal pinnacle, right, We
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: need permission to say this is good enough for this
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: task or the skill because they can still succeed.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Now in saying that, also we can think about
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the brain development, Like your kiddo, your child's front part
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of the brain, that's the last part of the brain
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to develop. So your kids the more your kiddo works
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: with these structures, meaning executive function, skill sets or systems
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: that they're implementing it, the more that your child works
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: with this stuff now until they're twenty five or thirty
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: years old. The brain is still developing. Until you're twenty
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: five or thirty years old, the front part of the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: brain still developing, So that's really good to know. Now
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: after that, there's not a lot of change can happen. So,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: for example, for me, I still have tremendous struggles with
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: certain things. My brain will never be able to, let's say,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: be as organized as my girlfriends and focused. Like she
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: wants to do one thing at a time and work
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: on it until it's done. I want to work on
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the forty things at a time and bounce back and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: forth and somehow I magically get a million things done.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: But it is not the best way, but I figured
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: out how to make it.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: Work for me.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: It works for you.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not that I've gotten my brain to work better. However,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I have gotten my brain to work better in certain ways.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And that has to do for me with things that
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: impact executive function, sleep, nutrition, exercise. I had horrifically problems
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: for many years. I've worked so hard on that. Consistent
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: with fitness, I think better when I move, my mood
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: is better, yeada, YadA. So anyhow, there are things that
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: make executive function worse when we do or don't do
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: so things, and that make it better when we do
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: or don't do certain things. So that's important to look
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: at as a parent too, is what sort of environmental factors,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: what sort of food sensitivities might you not even know
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: about that might impact executive function, emotional experiences that are
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: impacting executive function, or traumas or things like this. But
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: does that mean that the brain's ability to execute like
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: there's been all this development. To me, it's more like
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: things that were in the way are not as much
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: in the way when it comes to that now. Then
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the other thing is is external things to help with
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: executive functions. Systems, better systems for organizing, planning, technology support people.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: If you're in any job, let's say that you're working
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: at a restaurant. A restaurant is a series of executive
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: function things going on. I mean, it's a place designed
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to execute certain things. This thing that we call food
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: is prepared in a way that humans can consume it
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: and have a good time, and it's delivered to them.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: You know, there's so much going on to make that happen.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: So many systems of where the plates are the napkins,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: how the chairs are blah blah, there's so many how
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: people pay? These are all systems and for your kiddo,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: they need systems. And what happens is is a lot
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: of kids with strong executive function they see a need
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: for a system, they see a problem, they say, oh,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know where to put this paper. I better
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: get a new folder for this type of papers, and
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: they proactively do it, and it bugs them if they don't.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Well for kids with executive function challenges, most of us,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: it doesn't bug us until it's really painful, and we
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: avoid it because it's tedious, it's not fun. But if
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: somebody were to just gently show us, which we don't
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: do in school, and like we don't teach how to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: plan and organize, and it seems like these kids who
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: are good at it just sort of are care more
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and work harder and this and that, and that they
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: are more motivated and disciplined and they're better students. That's
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: not the case. These kids don't have the same skills
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and nobody's ever taught them, and then they're expected to know.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: But it's sort of an invisible thing, you know, you
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: can't look at somebody and say, oh, their brain doesn't
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: know how to, you know, use a planner, and they're
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: pulling their planner out every day. It looks like they're
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: writing in it, but they really don't know why they're writing.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: They're just writing it to make the teacher not say
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: to them, get your planner out or whatever the case is.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: But the skills aren't being built.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, totally agree.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I did want to say something similar to that again, Yeah,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: with the skill level and I'm going to use them. Sorry,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: But the guitar analogy again, what is good enough. There
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: are people who play guitar that are some of the
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: most famous people in the world that all their songs
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: are three chord songs, and they know three chords. They
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: play three chords really well, and they've built a career,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: they've written amazing songs, they've touched hearts around the world,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: and they play, you know, three chords really well.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: And then there are.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: People who do technical things that are so far and
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: above that it's the gap is incredible and nobody might
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: even know who they are that they can play so fast,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: but people don't really care because it's not touching the soul.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: And anyhow, there's huge gaps, and we've just really got
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to always, as parents and teachers, always come back to
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: mental health. Yes, how does this person feel? What is
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: good enough? Executive function? What is good enough that? What
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: do they want? What do they need?
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Not?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: How do I think they should navigate the world? And
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: do I think they should go to college? And do
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I think they should go to this type of school?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And do I think they should get these type of grades?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: But what is this human being standing right in front
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: of you that you love? What do they need to
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: be happy? Healthy, successful in this world to feel good
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: about who they are? You know, that should always be,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: you know, in our mind whenever we're asking questions.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Number one, number one, number one, relationship and mental health
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: has to be number one. And redefining success or not
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: even redefining it, but just defining it for each individual.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: We have this cultural idea of success, but there's lots
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: of people who meet that cultural idea of success, who
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: are miserable, who don't feel successful. Right, it's not a
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: genuine thing. So we need to be and I go
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: down this die tribe all the time, but we need
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: to be teaching individuals. We need to be you know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: defining success by individuals. It all needs to be more
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: individualized instead of this machine that we're trying to just
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: make everybody the same and put everybody through because that's
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: where we fail kids like ours, that's where they fall
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: through the cracks. That's where they're labeled as unmotivated and
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: lazy and all of these things. You know, I have
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: a very highly intelligent kid who graduated from high school
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: thinking that he was lazy. He and still we're trying
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: to deprogram that, right, because that was the message he
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: kept getting. You're smart enough to do this, Why can't
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: you just And I remember when he was little and
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't understand what was going on yet, and I
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: didn't know what I know. I probably said why can't
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you just? Was something there a hundred times a day
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: to this poor kid because I didn't get it yet, right,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: But that, to me is a red flag. If you're
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: using those words, there is a struggle and you need
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: to dig deeper, right, and you need to look at
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: executive function. Do you want to tell us about tifos
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: before we run out of time.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: I do want to say one last thing about executive function.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: When I learned about executive function, I had already been
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: teaching for many years and a huge light bulb went off.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: It just pulled everything together. It's like an umbrella executive
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: function for all the kids that struggled, it was the umbrella.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And then when I started understanding, it just blew my
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: mind that nobody was talking about it because it is
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: such an umbrella. And what it did is it changed
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the way I looked at things to be able to
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: say say, Okay, these are skills, and what are the
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: areas under the umbrella that we need to work on
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: that we can help them have systems and stuff about.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say that that this was
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: just so pivotal that that is why this is my
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: life's work. Is this one thing because it impacts all
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: kids who struggle.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't be self reliant without a good executive function, right,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: or somebody who's taking care of those things.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: For you, right.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: And adulting is hard, and I think it's more complicated
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: today than it ever has been. Technology is a great thing,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: but we have so much technology. There's just so much
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: buying for our attention. Attention is precious resource and learning
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: how and what to execute on with the sort of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: choice paralysis we have in life today is really hard.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: So then it goes back again. We're looking to help
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: them to have great mental health and find balance.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: So I'll tell you about tvOS posts.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: So it's Executive Functions Summit dot Com. Executive Functions Summit
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: dot Com t posts is the Executive Function Online Summit.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: So this is my six yeer doing it. I started
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: it because I wanted people to learn about this. Every year,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I have a bunch of people who were passionate. I
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: work to get people who are coming from the heart,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: who really care about what they do. I'm not the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: easiest interviewer because I am super annoying to the people
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I interview. In terms of I want strategies, I want implementation.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Information is great. Parents need to know how to implement.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: They don't need a bunch more theory. It's important, it
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: has its place, but I want them walking away from
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: each of the talks saying, Okay, I knew something I
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: can do to help my kid this year. So I
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: make it very step by step and practical and implementable,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's one of my passions. I kind of
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: wish I wasn't doing it because I wish that the
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: culture and society and schools and education that it was
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a no brainer that we support all kids to meet
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: their individual needs, regardless of their needs. But we are
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: still very far from that. Yeah, But anyhow, that's what
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: the summit's about.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: And TIFOS is such a wealth of perspectives and information
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: and action. That's what I love about it is that
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: we really get a lot of different perspectives, a lot
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: of people coming from maybe the education side of it,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: maybe from you know, the parenting side of it, which
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: is what I talk about when I'm so lucky to
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: be in TIFOS, And it's just it's different from a
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: lot of other summits in that way, and your heart
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: comes through in all of it, and I think that's
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: inspiring for the parents and teachers who are going through it,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: like sometimes learning is hard and for parents finding the
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: time to take on conferences and things like that, no
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: matter how much you want to help your kid, it's hard.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: And this is just one of those summits that you're
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: really going to walk away not just with strategies, but
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: feeling sort of changed almost, if that makes sense. And
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: that's it's amazing.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that, because that's so important to
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: me to do that, and I do this again because
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I was a kid who struggled and I eventually got
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the sport I needed. But the suffering I've experienced from
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: beating up on myself and thinking that I wasn't okay
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and that I wasn't enough and that I was not capable,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and that I was a lazy failure. I'd be okay
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: if I didn't suffer as much with those sorts of
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: demons that I had. Yeah, but people didn't know what
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I needed and they were baffled and they're, like you said,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: They're like, he's bright. Why isn't he just blah blah.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: So I want people to come from the heart, and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because that's an intention,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: is that people walk away with that. So it's free
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: for the weekend, and there's an all access pass version
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: people can buy, and.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I'll link it all up in the show notes for
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: everybody so that they can easily access it. And I
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: know the pricing changes based on the timing, and so
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: maybe that'll be an easier way to get accurate information
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: on it based on when people are listening.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: But at the very least, come to the free weekend
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and get as much as you can, because yeah, we
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: pack it with just game changing stuff to help you.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Those show notes for everyone listening are
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: at Parenting ADHD and autism dot com slash two seven
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: six for episode two seventy six, and we will link
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: up other things to you, not just t Fosts, but
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: all the work that Seth is doing social media, website,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: all that good stuff will be there as well as
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: some takeaways from this episode, a transcript, and much more.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: So I encourage everybody to go there. Definitely check out
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: t Fosts. You will walk away from it better. Even
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: if you only can watch one one session. You're in
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: a better place than you were the day before, right,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: You're gonna learn something. So I encourage everybody to do that.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: And I thank you as always Seth for sharing your time,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: your wisdom, your heart with all of us. It is
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: so so welcomed and so appreciated. And I will see
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: everybody on the next episode.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Thanks for you. Show up in the world, Penny and
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: take care everybody.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, Seth. Thanks for joining me
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: on the Beautifully Complex Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: please subscribe and share and don't forget to check out
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: my online courses and parent coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: dot com and at The Behavior Revolution dot com.