Latest / The David Rubenstein Show / Brandie Smith

Transcript

Brandie Smith · The David Rubenstein Show

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: There's a great deal of excitement in Washington these days,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: but perhaps the greatest excitement is the arrival of two
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pandas from China. I had a chance recently to sit
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: down with Brandy Smith, who oversees the National Zoo and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: oversees the panda program as well, to talk to her
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: about the pandas. Now we're in the Panda house because
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: pandas have returned to the National Zoo. Why are pandas
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: so popular? I think I read that about eighty percent
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of the people that come to the National Zoo come
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: because they want to see the pandas. I mean, they're
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: nice animals, but why are they that popular?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of reasons. I think,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: first of all, they're cute. They're adorable. People just want
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: to see them. And the thing I love about pandas
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: is the way that they're built. It actually, we are
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: genetically designed to love pandas. They have these round features,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: the round ears, the round eyes, these cute voices, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: what we ping when we see a baby is the
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: same thing that pings when we see a panda, and
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: so we're designed to think they're adorable. But they're also
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: they're rare so I think it's a matter of having
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to see them. You take the opportunity when
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: you can. And you know, pandas are a story of joy.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: They're a story of hope and of happiness and success,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: a successful program that everyone is a part of.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: When did you get the new pandas?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: So these pandas came in October of twenty four, so
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: just a few months ago.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And how old are they.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: They're both three years old. The pandas are here not
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: just because they're adorable, but they're actually part of a
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: breeding program that's helping to save the species. And so
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: we wanted to get the most genetically valuable animals, and
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: we narrowed it down to a few pairs. But I
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: will say we sent a veterinarian to China just to
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: check the records of the different animals, and we did
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: ask them to pick the cutest pair.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: As I recall when Richard Nixon went to China when
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the famous trip in the early nineteen seventies as a gift,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Malzi Tung said, here are to pandas, and they came
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to the National Zoo, and at that time, I think
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: they were the only pandas in the United States they were.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: At that time. That was really the start of the
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: giant panda conservation program as we know it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: They were gifts to the country. And subsequent to that, China,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: as I understand it, began a program of lending pandas
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: or renting pandas to zoos around the world. And I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: thought I read that there were like twenty seven zoos
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: or something like that around the world that have pandas.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Is that how it works.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: We received the first pandas they were a state gift,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: and then there was the loan program that was to
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: other zoos, and as part of that program, there's a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: conservation fee that zoos pay to China to the panda
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: breeding centers in China, and the pandas that we have
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: now are part of that breeding program.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Was it easy to get the pandas to come back
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. Did the Chinese say, we have
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: some extra pandas, we don't know what to do with them,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: we're going to give them to you.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it was a little more difficult than that. It
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: probably took us. It was about over the course of
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: a year where we had conversations with our colleagues in
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: China and we were able to get pandas here very quickly.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I think it's a testament to the relationship we've built
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: over decades, to the conservation success that we've had here
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: with our pandas and our panda program. And so it
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: was a lot of conversations, but I think we always
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: knew in the end that we did want pandas at
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: the National Zoo.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: How big is the National Zoo? How many acres do
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: you have here?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So we have two facilities. We have the zoo, which
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: is in Washington, d c. It's one hundred and seventy
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: five acres in Rock Creek Park. And then we also
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: have a facility called our Conservation Biology Institute, and that's
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: thirty two hundred acres and it's in front Royal, Virginia.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Now, when I was a little boy growing up in Baltimore,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: we had a zoo there and that still exists. But
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the animals always seem to be in big cages. They
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: didn't seem to be able to roam around that much. Now,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: my understanding is that people that are in charge of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: zoos let animals have more freedom and more space than
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: they used to. But what about the argument that some
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: people say it's not nice to have zoos at all,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: because let the animals stay in the wild. Wat should
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: we have people like me gawking at them all the time.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: How do you respond to that?
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I love that question because it's asked by people who
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: care deeply about animals. And so I'll answer in two parts,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: And one is the emotional part about about animals and zoos.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And I always, you know, I think about people who
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: have pets. Right, people get pets. The most of them
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: aren't trained to care for them. They don't know that much.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: They bring them to their house, they have them in
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: their apartment, you know, go for walks every so often.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: But they know those animals are cared for. They know
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: that those animals are happy. They know that they love them,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: and they're loved back. Now imagine that, except imagine that
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: you have experts, hundreds of experts who are trained in
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the care of animals. Right, people spend their entire lives
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: caring for these animals with the best nutrition, the best
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: veterinary medicine, you know, habitats, they're scientifically designed to meet
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: their behavioral biological needs. And that's animals and zoos. We
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: know they're happy, We love them. And we know their
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: loved pack.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: So what is other than pandas. Who are the biggest
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: attraction or what are the biggest attraction at the National Zoo?
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: You know people, we call them the charismatic megafauna. People
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: love the big animals, the pandas, elephants, lions, tigers, cheetahs.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: But one fact that I think is really funny, the
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: most searched animal on our website are snakes, and so
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know if people are searching them because they
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: want to see them or if they're searching them because
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: they're afraid to see them.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Let's go back and talk about the pandas because they're
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: so popular and obviously you get a lot of visitors
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: because of that. So where do pandas come from? Why
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: is it only in one place, as I understand it,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: where pandas are. You've got two hundred countries in the world,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Why only one country has pandas.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: So that's just the area they are indigenous to, kind
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: of the cool mountain forests in China, So that's the
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: habitat that sustains them the best. And pandas Actually they're
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: obligate bamboo eaters. If they don't eat bamboo they'll get sick.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: So they're very heavily dependent upon having the appropriate habitat.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Now, originally pandas, which were maybe a couple million years old,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: we think they used to have a meat diet, as
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I understand they were carnivores, but then maybe five hundred
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: thousand years ago they became herbivores. So I don't know
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: if that's easy to deal with your stomach. But because
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: they only eat vegetables or non meat, do they have
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: enough nutrition to get through the day.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't realize this pandas are. They're
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: taxonomically their carnivores, and they are bears. They are true bears,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: and they have evolved to take advantage of a more
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: plentiful resource. They don't have to chase down their food.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: It pretty much just grows up around them as they
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: fit there. So they've evolved special adaptations to be able
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: to consume bamboo as quickly as possible. But what it
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: lacks in quality, they make up for in quantity. So
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the pandas here at the National Zoo, we feed each
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: panda one hundred pounds of freshly cut bamboo every single day.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And if you eat one hundred pounds of food, which
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: is bamboo every day, one hundred pounds a day. Doesn't
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that take a lot of energy? And does that mean
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: that they sleep a lot? Because they use up a
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: lot of energy.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Eating they do, they're digesting, so they spend their times.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like a panda's life is eating, sleeping, and playing.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: So I also think we love pandas because they're living
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: like our best lives. And so it's so fun to
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: watch them because sometimes you'll see a panda just, you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: bowing through bamboo leaves and they'll actually stop for a second,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and you think it almost looks like they're taking a
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: little mini naps. They digest their bamboo before they just
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: keep eating more.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Now when they pick up the bamboo, and you grow
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: your own bamboo, right, you don't bring it in from China.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: You grow it somewhere in the National Zoo Area.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: We actually grow. So we have the facility in Virginia
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: thirty two hundred acres. We do a lot of our
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: research there. All of our labs are there for all
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: of the conservation and science work that we do, but
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: we also grow. We grow all of our own hey,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: our own alfalfa, and our bamboo as well.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Now panda bear has like we have fingers, Panda bear
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: seems to have like a six finger help them pick
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: up the bamboo. Is that an evolutionary trick or something
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: to help them pick up bamboo.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: It's not really a thumb. It's a modified wristbone that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: actually almost it's a flexible wristbone that functions almost like
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: a thumb as they hold Think about as they hold
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: on to bamboo, because bamboo's circular, so if you watch them,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: it looks like they're holding on and it's part of
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: that evolution from being instead of investing in being a
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: better predator right and being able to chase down their meat,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: they invested evolutionarily and being the best bamboo eater you
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: can imagine.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Now, there's a problem that pandas have in that there's
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: so few of them. It was for a long time
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that panders were thought to be an endangered species. Now
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: they're called vulnerable. But how many pandas are there in
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the entire world.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: So this is incredible because this is all due to
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: this panda program, and this is so important. So when
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: we started with giant pandas fifty years ago, there were
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: fewer than a thousand pandas in the world. Right, we're
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: talking in the wild and ze fewer than a thousand
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and decades later, there are close to two thousand pandas
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: in the wild. Now, actually you think a little over
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: eighteen hundred. There are over seven hundred pandas in breeding centers.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So as part of this program, we have tripled the
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: number of pandas on the planet.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: It's still a small number of pandas, it's.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: A small number. But what we're also doing, and this
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: is what I love about the Panda program. People come here,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: they see the pandas, they're cute, it's great. But when
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: they contribute, when they buy a stuffed panda or a
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: T shirt or something, they are actually funding our conservation efforts.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: So not only are we breeding pandas, not only are
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: we learning more about giant pandas, but we're saving their
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: habitat in the wild. So when this started, there were
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: probably just ten about ten small little reserves where pandas
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: could live. There are panda reserves in China three times
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: the size of Yellowstone. So because of this program, there
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: are more pandas on the planet, more quality panda habitat
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: in the wild, and pandas have gone from being endangered
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: to being vulnerable.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Now. One of the problems that pandas have and the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: reason they're so few, is that their ability to reproduce
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: is the most limited, it seems, are the most challenging
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in the entire animal world. So I think the female
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: panda can reproduce only a short period of time, maybe
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: one day a year or something like that. So the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: male has to show up at the right time, right,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and how does that work?
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Well, it's actually really interesting. So the males. The female
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: has a very narrow window where she's reproductively viable, but
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the males go through something called rut, so it's much longer.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So basically for months that could overlap multiple females estrus.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: The males are basically they're looking for a mate, so
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: they are they're scent marking, they're patrolling, they're covering a
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: large territory. And what they're really doing is they're both
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: looking for a mate and they're advertising to females that
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: they would be a great father to their cubs.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So many VIPs I soon call you up and say
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I'd like to come bring my grandchildren, my children. I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: want to come myself to see pantas. You get a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: lot of that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: So there are a lot of people who want to
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: see giant pandas. And the thing I love the most
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: is we are part of the Smithsonian and so everyone,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: no matter how VIP you are, you can come here.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: You can see giant pandas for free.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you how one becomes the head of
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the National Zoo. Let's talk about your background.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So where did you grow up in Indiana, Pennsylvania. It's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: in western Pennsylvania, small town we had. I had a
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: rural delivery address and most of my relatives are coal miners.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: So when you were growing up and you're a little girl,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: did you play with dolls or do you play with pandas?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't have pandas, so stuffed animals, and you know,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: our neighbors had cows, so I'd always go over and
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, feed the cows, and you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: see my friends who worked at who lived on farms.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So you told your parents you want to be a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: National Zoo director? How did you let your parents know
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: that you wanted to be are you? Are you trained
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: as a zoologist?
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: So I actually I was a young girl interested in science,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: you know, in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania, and
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I thought that if you wanted to be a scientist,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: that meant you were a doctor. And I thought that
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: was my only career path. And I actually got it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: My undergraduate degree is in biology, and you know, I
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: thought about it and I thought, this isn't what I
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: want to do. I want to work with animals. So
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I was about to start an internship with an ophthalmologist
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: and I called the Pittsburgh Zoo and I just said,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I want to do what you do. Tell me, how
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: did you get this job? And because this was, you know,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: back in the day, the guy said, he said, actually,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I'm on my way to interview for a summer intern
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and I'll interview you right now, and if you do well,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I'll hire you. And so I got the job and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I went home and I told my mother that instead
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: of doing an internship with a doctor, I was going
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: to intern as a zoo keeper. And well, we were
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: driving at the time, so one is, she almost drove
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the car off the road, but the other it was
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the first time I ever heard my mother swear, and
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: she said, she's like, at least do something respectable with
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: your life. Be a lawyer.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you get this internship and you obviously must
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: have liked it. So then what happened?
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I always tell people I never made a smart career
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: choice in my life, so I always just kind of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: followed my heart, and I did the internship at the zoo.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: The thing I love about zoos is not just that
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: they educate and inspire people, but they are unique conservation organizations.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: There are species that exist on the planet today because
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: of zoos, because we care for animals and can breathe them.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Blackfooted ferret, Panamaanian golden frog, simitar horned rigx, California conders.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: The list goes on. And so I was really fascinated
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: with the idea of genetically managing how we manage these
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: species genetically so that they're saved for the wild. I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: got a master's degree in zoology that focused on genetic management.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Then I got a job in another zoo, I did
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: more internships, I got my PhD, and eventually I ended
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: up here.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: All right, so you've got your PhD in zoology.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: It's a program at University of Maryland. It's called behavior, Ecology,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Evolution and Systematics.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So and then you get a job immediately there after
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: at the National Zoo.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Well, actually I had a job. I was the head
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: of conservation and science for an organization called the Association
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: of Zoos and Aquariums. So we set kind of conservation
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: goals for zoos, accredited zoos across the country. It's an office,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: it's an association, and I just really missed. I missed
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: being in a zoo. I missed the animals. We create
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: magic for people on a daily basis, and I missed
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: being part of that.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: So how many zoos are there in the United States?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So there are about twenty five hundred licensed animal exhibitors
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: in the United States, But then there's also an accrediting
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: program by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, and I
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: think under two hundred and fifty zoos are accredited, So
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: less than ten percent of zoos in the country are accredited,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and those are the best of the best.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So the most famous in the United States were the biggest.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I would think leaving the National Zoo a side is
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the San Diego Zoo Is that the biggest? Actually?
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: So, I do think it's the most well known zoo.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are very familiar with that zoo.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Over the years the National Zoo is not the only
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: zoo in the United States that's had pandas, right, and
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: so I thought there were at one point four San Diego, Memphis, Atlanta,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: and Washington. They still have.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Them now as part of the loan program started at
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: roughly the same time, so a lot of the pandas
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: were kind of moving through in cohorts, and so a
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: lot of zoos in the past two or three years
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: their pandas were older and returned to China. And so
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: right now only the National Zoo and the San Diego
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Zoo have giant pandas.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So go back and finish up on your career. So
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: you're working at this association and you now say, I
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: really want to be with animals directly. So then did
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you apply to the National Zoo.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was an opening for a general curator. It
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: was more of a curator of mammals, and it was
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: also the curator of giant pandas. And so my story
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: actually came full circle because when I got the job
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: here and I was in charge of the giant pandas,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: my mother was so proud.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Did she come to visit the pandas? Ever?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Oh right away?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So all right, So then you were the head of
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the mammal program, including that the pandas. When did you
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: become the head of the National Zoo itself the whole head?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: At first I was essentially curator of mammals and curator
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: of giant pandas, and then after a few years I
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: became the head of Animal Care, so I saw all
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: of the animals, the veterinarians, nutrition, wrecords, behavior, all of
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the departments. And then eventually I became deputy director, and
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: then a few years later I became director.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: So if you walk around and did she the pandas,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: did they recognize you?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: It is one of the saddest movements of my life.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: When I was curator of giant pandas and I was
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: here all of the time, the pandas knew who I was.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: They recognized me or at least my voice, and I
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: could call their name and they would show an interest.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: But as director, I don't. I'm not with them every day.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not the ringer food and love and happiness.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: So today, how many different species do you have at
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the National Zoo?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: We have about three thousand animals from about three hundred
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: different species.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And how many professionals do you have working here.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: At both locations. We've got about four hundred people.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And how many people come a year to the National Zoo.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So just under two million people come every year. And
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: we actually we only had one year without Giant Pandas,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: and what we noticed was that our attendants actually dropped
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: twenty percent when Giant pandas weren't here.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: What did you do when COVID came? Nobody showed up?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Then, right, we didn't have any visitors, but we had
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: to keep working. So if we're responsible for the living collection,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I'll actually never forget that moment because the world is
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: closing down because of COVID. And our team gathered in
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: our line in Tiger Building and the offices there have
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: this kind of bunker like feel, and we were there
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: and we said, okay, what do we do? And everyone's concern.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: The concern wasn't I can't go home. The concern was
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: what happens if I get sick and I can't take
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: care of my animals? And so we had animal care.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: We had a team and b team that didn't cross,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: so we could always have someone who could be there
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: to take care of the animals.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Now does a China say if you have two pandas
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that they've rented to you, and there's a baby panda
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: that they owned the baby panda, or do you own
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the baby panda?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: So they own all pandas. But this is a good
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: thing because the majority of pandas live in China. And
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: so again we're not producing pandas just because we went
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: to although it's wonderful. These pandas are all part of
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a conservation program. So if a cub was here and
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: it grew up here, it can't breed with its parents,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: and so the cub returns to China so that it
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: can be part of the breeding program.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: When a baby is let's say, has some fur and
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: can see and hear, a human can pick that baby up, right,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's say in a zoo or a control setting,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: you're allowed to pick up a panda a small a size.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: But is that right?
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: We do wellness checks on the cubs soon after they're born,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: so we do actually get hands on our giant pandas
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: just to make sure they're doing fine and they're healthy
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: and everything's okay.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: After a panda is what size? Is it not possible
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: for a zoo keeper to actually be in the cage
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: alone with them because they're bears and it could be dangerous.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: So it's actually usually when they're about a year old,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: they hit about one hundred pounds, and that's the time
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: when they start to get they're not predators. They're not
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: going to see you as food, right, they don't see
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: you as a threat. But even if they just do right,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: they've got strong jaws. They've got sharp claws, so an
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: animal could inadvertently hurt you even without trying.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: It probably went into a panda, you know place right now,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: like here where the pandas are, and there they is
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: now weigh three hundred pounds. Would that be dangerous And it.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Would be and not because again they're not predators, so
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't see you as food. It wouldn't look like
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a tasty treat if you walked in, but they would think.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: They could think that you're a toy. They could think
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: that we're something that we gave to them just to
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: play with their jaws. Their bite force actually equals that
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: of a lion or tiger. So if they wanted to
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: play with you, they've got the claws, they got the teeth,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: they got the strength. They could do some damage.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about the pandacam for a moment. You
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: have a camera that watches pandas twenty four hours a day.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I think people really enjoy watching the pandacam because they're
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: seeing them how we watch them. We decided we're going
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: to do something a little bit different this year because
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: it's not just people in the United States, but people
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: around the world are watching the pandacam. We want to
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: do it during the daytime, you know, during the twelve
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: hours during the day when people are when you know,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: the pandas are awake, when keepers are interacting with them.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So what we're going to do is we'll have twelve
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: hours with the giant pandas and then replay at twelve
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: hours for the people on the other side of the
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: world who want to see giant pandas.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Have you thought about selling advertising on your pandacam.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: We are Smithsonians Nationals Zoo, and so we receive about
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: sixty percent of our funding from the federal government, and
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: as such, we want to make sure that we are
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: open and available to every single person who wants to
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: see tiant pandas and not necessarily be assailed by by ads.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: So sixty percent of your funding comes from the federal government.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: The other forty percent just falls out of the sky.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Where does that come from?
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Well, we're really fortunate, you know, we were talking about
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the pandacam and so Boeing sponsors our pandacams their corporations
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: to help splonster us. We have some incredibly generous donors
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: who support us through philanthropy, and we also generate revenue.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: And so when people come here, they come to the zoo,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: and they come here for free because we're Smithsonian. But
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: when they buy a stuffed panda or a T shirt,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: or they eat, you know, a hamburger or a hot dog here,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: that money goes to support the zoo in all of
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: our conservation work.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: So if somebody wants to know something about the National Zoo,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: and you've got two or three sentences, you can give them.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: What is a summary of at the National Zoo, Why
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: is it so great? And why should somebody visit the
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: National Zoo.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: National Zoo is part of Smithsonian. We are free, we
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: are open and welcome to everyone. And when you come here,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: you are not just seeing the animals, You are not
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: just having an incredible time that will stay with you
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and your family, through the rest of your lives. You
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: are part of our conservation success.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen.