Latest / This Is My Circus / 🎪 PART 2 Conversations With a Killer: The Manson Family Turns Deadly | Sharon Tate, Helter Skelter & True Crime Breakdown

Transcript

🎪 PART 2 Conversations With a Killer: The Manson Family Turns Deadly | Sharon Tate, Helter Skelter & True Crime Breakdown · This Is My Circus

• 0:00
  I'm Stephanie.
• 0:00
  I'm Meredith.
• 0:01
  And welcome to This Is My Circus.
• 0:02
  Hey, Steph.
• 0:03
  Hi.
• 0:03
  Let's go.
• 0:04
  What are we doing today?
• 0:05
  We're doing Conversations With a Killer documentary, Charles Manson.
• 0:09
  Okay.
• 0:09
  So now we're in episode two, and it's called The Devil's Business.
• 0:13
  Yes.
• 0:13
  Okay.
• 0:14
  So go ahead.
• 0:15
  No, I don't even know.
• 0:17
  Yeah.
• 0:17
  So we meet Tex.
• 0:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 0:19
  Tex is this, this guy who's now in the family.
• 0:21
  He's from Texas, and he is really trying to prove himself, and he wants to be Manson's second in command, and Manson has given him all these crappy jobs.
• 0:29
  Well, because he knows his insecurity is- Mm-hmm being accepted- Mm-hmm and proving himself- Mm-hmm and so he's going to go hard on that- Exactly and make him do all the awful things.
• 0:38
  So he is making Tex do the grunt work- Mm-hmm of, of everything, and Tex is just, like, basically lapping it up'cause he wants to win the approval of Little Bit.
• 0:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 0:52
  We also hear about the creepy crawls, um, which is Manson testing, um, the family with breaking into random people's homes while they're sleeping and not- To do anything, but just to move things around just to let them know that somebody was in their house while they were sleeping.
• 1:06
  That is terrifying.
• 1:07
  Now, could you imagine waking up and going out to make your coffee and your coffee maker's on a different counter?
• 1:12
  Or, like, your pictures are on a different wall?
• 1:14
  That would be the craziest thing., I used to be able to know when my sister had been in my room, messing with my stuff because I was so anal about how I had like my vanity with perfumes and stuff.
• 1:24
  I'd be like,"Why were you in here?" She's like,"Oh my God, I can't get away with anything." We used to do that to my boss.
• 1:32
  'Cause he was, like, so, so...
• 1:33
  Like, everything- Mm-hmm had to be in its- Mm-hmm.
• 1:35
  Like, he would walk by our desk and if our calendar wasn't, straight on the corner, he would, shift it.
• 1:38
  Like John Ferguson.
• 1:40
  We would just, like, every day, not every day, but quite a few times, we would just move stuff around the office.
• 1:44
  Tilt things just a little bit or make things a little off center.
• 1:48
  Move his pens.
• 1:50
  So no, waking up and having things just in a totally different place would make me insane.
• 1:56
  Yeah.
• 1:57
  And breaking into somebody's house, though, God, it just gives me...
• 1:59
  Ooh.
• 2:00
  I know.
• 2:00
  I know.
• 2:01
  The violation.
• 2:02
  Mm.
• 2:02
  Mm-mm.
• 2:02
  Even if they didn't do anything, but just knowing that they could.
• 2:06
  Oh.
• 2:07
  The power that gave them and the fear that would put in me.
• 2:09
  Woo.
• 2:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:10
  Woo, woo, woo.
• 2:11
  So then next we hear about Diane and when she was 16, she just wanted Charlie's love so much.
• 2:17
  Not Charlie Manson.
• 2:19
  Or a little bit.
• 2:20
  Little bit.
• 2:21
  She wanted a little bit of love.
• 2:25
  I bet his penis was really small.
• 2:29
  But then why wouldn't they all want it?
• 2:30
  That's a great question I, I don't- I'm, I left Grace to think about with him Mm.
• 2:34
  Okay.
• 2:35
  Okay.
• 2:35
  So Diane is about 16 at this point.
• 2:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:38
  She still desperately wants his attention and affection.
• 2:40
  She approaches him and flat out just says,"Will you have sex with me?" Mm-hmm.
• 2:44
  Yep.
• 2:44
  Yep.
• 2:45
  She's like,"Hey, let's do it." Let's go.
• 2:47
  So he takes her.
• 2:48
  He takes her hand, and he's like,"Oh, okay, let's go." And he sodomizes her.
• 2:52
  Yes.
• 2:52
  And she flat out says,"He raped me." Mm-hmm.
• 2:55
  "This is not what we- This is- we're supposed to be doing." Right.
• 2:58
  Right.
• 2:58
  That was not what she wanted.
• 2:59
  So even his people in his family, he's just abusing them in every way that he can.
• 3:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:05
  Ugh.
• 3:05
  And then when she, was, crying and whatever, and he said that...
• 3:08
  this is what he says to her,"This is how we do it in prison." Disgusting.
• 3:12
  And then he finishes and walks away and leaves her there.
• 3:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:16
  And she still doesn't leave.
• 3:17
  Right.
• 3:18
  But we know that she's conditioned.
• 3:19
  We know that she's been there for a while.
• 3:20
  Right.
• 3:21
  And, you know, he's the Messiah.
• 3:22
  Right.
• 3:23
  Right.
• 3:23
  And she's 16, and he's a 30-something-year-old man at this point.
• 3:26
  So, no.
• 3:27
  Mm.
• 3:28
  Yeah.
• 3:29
  He's a complete douche.
• 3:30
  Yeah.
• 3:31
  So we've now shifted from the narrative of free love- Mm-hmm nobody owns anybody- Mm-hmm we're all one, to Manson decides what happens to your body, your time- Mm-hmm and your life.
• 3:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:45
  Yep.
• 3:46
  He's taken over.
• 3:47
  He's taken over everything.
• 3:49
  Everything that these people have.
• 3:51
  Yeah.
• 3:51
  And I think,, again, like the natural question is like,"Why would you stay?" Well, they've been living in it for so long- Yeah at this point, which it really was a short period of time.
• 3:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:00
  But I'm sure time was really weird in that because you're either high or you're exhausted and- And LSD isn't just like smoking weed.
• 4:08
  Right it's a totally different- Right, right experience.
• 4:11
  They were like it was either, you know, love-ins, as I'm gonna now call orgies.
• 4:18
  Or it was like everybody was terrified.
• 4:20
  Yeah.
• 4:20
  And so going between all that and then just literal physical exhaustion and hunger and all the things.
• 4:27
  Yeah.
• 4:27
  They didn't have their right minds to know what they needed to do.
• 4:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:31
  so we met Tex already.
• 4:33
  Tex is trying to be dude.
• 4:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:35
  And then Tex brings with him harder drugs.
• 4:38
  Great.
• 4:39
  Good choice, Tex.
• 4:41
  Way to go.
• 4:41
  So the family already obviously was doing LSD and- Mm-hmm smoking marijuana, but the devil's lettuce.
• 4:50
  The devil's lettuce.
• 4:53
  Diane says Tex brought more of a hard drug culture into the group.
• 4:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:57
  Like bringing cocaine.
• 4:58
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:59
  And I feel like they said meth at one point, but- They said, like a different meth.
• 5:03
  Yeah, it wasn't like meth- It wasn't like our meth.
• 5:05
  Yeah.
• 5:05
  It was- It was old-timey meth.
• 5:08
  Probably a little bit cleaner.
• 5:09
  Yeah, let's hope so.
• 5:10
  Yeah, so but and with that, they're having to do like drug deals with all these different people and gangs.
• 5:17
  What?
• 5:17
  The name Lotsa Papa.
• 5:19
  Oh my gosh, I know.
• 5:21
  Okay.
• 5:21
  So, going into the drug dealing.
• 5:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:23
  They know a drug dealer named Bernard Crowe, but his nickname was Lotsa Papa, and I burst out laughing.
• 5:30
  Lotsa Papa, and it's what you think it is.
• 5:32
  Lots o' papa.
• 5:34
  Yeah.
• 5:35
  I couldn't.
• 5:36
  I know.
• 5:37
  I just laughed so hard.
• 5:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:38
  Um- Don't call me Bernard, call me Lotsa Papa.
• 5:42
  Bernard's harder of a name than Lotsa.
• 5:45
  Yeah.
• 5:46
  Like it's instilling fear in anybody- No with Lotsa Pa- it's like Teddy Bear.
• 5:50
  100%.
• 5:51
  It's like a big- I thought of the bear from Toy Story 3 or whatever.
• 5:55
  Lots-o.
• 5:55
  Yeah.
• 5:56
  Yes.
• 5:57
  I kind of pictured this, I can't remember his name, but he's this big like Hawaiian actor.
• 6:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:02
  Anyway, random.
• 6:03
  Yeah.
• 6:04
  Okay.
• 6:05
  So yeah, we meet Lotsa Papa, who's a drug dealer.
• 6:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:08
  And so Tex and Charlie concoct a plan to basically rob- Mm-hmm Lotsa Papa.
• 6:14
  Oh, and that's what they do.
• 6:15
  Yep.
• 6:16
  And Lots-o-Popo's trying to...
• 6:17
  I can't even say that name.
• 6:18
  Like, can we abbreviate that?
• 6:19
  Can we call him Lots?
• 6:20
  Lotso?
• 6:20
  Lotso.
• 6:21
  Lotso.
• 6:22
  Lothsa.
• 6:22
  Papa.
• 6:24
  So he's trying to tell them, though, like,"Hey, I'm not just a drug dealer.
• 6:27
  I'm also with the Black Panthers." But he really wasn't.
• 6:30
  He was not.
• 6:30
  No.
• 6:31
  He was not.
• 6:31
  But he was like putting it out there, like- He-"Don't mess with me." Right.
• 6:34
  Right.
• 6:34
  And they did mess with him.
• 6:35
  And they did mess with him and they killed him, but then Manson was terrified.
• 6:39
  Like,"We just effed with the Black Panthers.
• 6:40
  Get out of here." Mm-hmm.
• 6:42
  so Charlie he's like,"Oh, yeah.
• 6:44
  Oh, Jesus, now they're gonna come for us." Right.
• 6:47
  And this just escalated the whole race war thing he had in his head that was already building and swirling and all the things.
• 6:54
  Yeah.
• 6:54
  So we're going from the hippie commune to an armed compound because then- Mm-hmm he decides he's gonna hire a motorcycle gang to come and protect them.
• 7:04
  So just, just come pro- hey, just, just hang out with us for a little bit and just protect us, and you can chill here and you're fine.
• 7:10
  And you can have all the food, drugs, and women you want.
• 7:13
  So now the women are now like a trading tool.
• 7:15
  Uh-huh.
• 7:16
  Yep, just like, okay, Take your pick.
• 7:18
  Ew.
• 7:19
  So gross.
• 7:20
  And again, we're all over the place with this.
• 7:23
  Yeah.
• 7:24
  All over the place.
• 7:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:25
  So that motorcycle gang was called the Straight Satans.
• 7:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:29
  Dianne says that their arrival completely changed the ranch.
• 7:31
  They were armed bikers.
• 7:33
  They had knives.
• 7:34
  They drank a stupid amount.
• 7:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:36
  And it just had a much darker vibe- Mm-hmm on the ranch.
• 7:40
  I'm 100%- Yeah picturing just what you picture when you think of an outlaw- Yeah biker gang.
• 7:45
  Just the patches and the jackets and the booze and the things Yeah then their former Love commune, like two totally different things.
• 7:55
  Yeah.
• 7:55
  Just a lot going on.
• 7:56
  Yeah.
• 7:56
  I can't get over the fact that there's just so much happening.
• 7:58
  I know.
• 7:59
  And I've never heard any of this.
• 8:01
  Like, this is bananas.
• 8:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:03
  So now Bobby- I don't know how to say his last name.
• 8:05
  Vooslay?
• 8:06
  Voo- Yeah Something like that.
• 8:08
  Yeah.
• 8:08
  So Bobby enters this, and now they nickname him Cupid.
• 8:12
  He's another musician who spends time around the ranch, and he bonds with Manson over music.
• 8:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:18
  Catherine says that she remembers him extremely attractive, so they were all doing it.
• 8:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:24
  Apparently all the ladies were a fan.
• 8:26
  So for the guys we have Charlie, who's the cult leader- Mm-hmm guitarist, and, you know, so cares for my dead father.
• 8:32
  He's their god, yeah.
• 8:32
  Not anymore.
• 8:33
  Tex is the hot former athlete from Texas.
• 8:36
  That, we didn't even hit on that.
• 8:37
  Yeah.
• 8:37
  He was like an all-American dude.
• 8:38
  Yeah, he was like frat boy, They show him, in his football uniform and stuff.
• 8:41
  Short hair, crazy pants.
• 8:43
  Yeah, and then now we got Bobby the hot musician.
• 8:45
  Yep.
• 8:46
  So three main dudes on the ranch.
• 8:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:49
  And I'm sure there was all sorts of stuff going on.
• 8:51
  Yeah.
• 8:53
  Bobby starts hanging out with the Straight Satans, and again, desperately wants their approval and- Mm-hmm be accepted.
• 8:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:59
  And I'm like, I just, I don't know.
• 9:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:00
  My brain just doesn't work that way.
• 9:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:02
  Like, take me or leave me.
• 9:03
  I don't really care.
• 9:03
  Right.
• 9:04
  Other than you, you have to take me for life.
• 9:06
  Sure, I got you.
• 9:07
  I'm taking you everywhere.
• 9:09
  So now we've got this group of men that are like,"Okay, let's take advantage," because they're all screwed up.
• 9:15
  All of them.
• 9:16
  Yeah.
• 9:16
  the biker dudes are like,"Hey, we want some mescaline," which is another form of acid, like a- Mm-hmm mind-altering whatever.
• 9:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:24
  And, Bobby's like,"Oh, dude, I got this.
• 9:26
  I know a dude." Right, right.
• 9:28
  Gary.
• 9:28
  Gary's great.
• 9:29
  You'll like Gary.
• 9:29
  Gary's got the- Gary's got the stuff so Gary, was a musician and a UCLA-educated Buddhist.
• 9:35
  And...
• 9:36
  Just another tick in the column of weirdness.
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:42
  Gary Hinman, I think was his name.
• 9:44
  Yes.
• 9:44
  Okay.
• 9:45
  So Gary, is a Buddhist who was also involved in the counterculture scene and drug selling, to make side money.
• 9:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:52
  Bobby buys,, about$1,000 worth of mescaline.
• 9:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:55
  And that money was the bikers' money.
• 9:57
  Yep.
• 9:57
  The next day the bikers are like,"Hey, that made us sick.
• 9:59
  We want our money back.
• 10:00
  That was some bad drugs that you got me." Yeah.
• 10:03
  "Go get our money." And Bobby's like,"Oh, well, Shoot, like I'm either gonna get, killed by these bikers or I have to go ask my friend for his money back." Right.
• 10:12
  So he goes back to Gary like,"Dude,""you gave me bad drugs.
• 10:15
  I need my money back." And Gary's like,"No, bro," Which I don't think that's how that works in the drug community.
• 10:20
  I don't think there's any kind of refund or exchange policy, I'm guessing.
• 10:23
  Yeah, you can't call the cops, so like...
• 10:24
  Right, right.
• 10:25
  What are you, what are you gonna do?
• 10:26
  Well, I'll tell you what you're gonna do.
• 10:27
  You're gonna stab him with a sword.
• 10:29
  Apparently that's how that works.
• 10:32
  Oh.
• 10:32
  Yeah.
• 10:33
  So Bobby's like,"Hey, I need the money back." And dude's like,"No, it was good drugs." They're just trying to pull one over on you.
• 10:41
  A scam on you.
• 10:41
  They just want the drugs for free.
• 10:42
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:43
  And Bobby's like,"No, I need that money back." Dude's like,"I spent it, sorry." And this is where it becomes a little bit violent, where- Mm-hmm bobby pistol whips him.
• 10:52
  Yeah.
• 10:53
  And the gun goes off but nobody gets shot.
• 10:55
  Nobody gets shot with this.
• 10:56
  But this is like Bobby's wake up, like,"Oh, shoot," Right he- This is serious dude, let's just walk away.
• 11:01
  Yeah.
• 11:01
  I'm sorry.
• 11:01
  Let's just walk away.
• 11:02
  I don't want anybody to get hurt.
• 11:03
  Yeah.
• 11:03
  But in that scuffle somebody calls Charles.
• 11:07
  And they're like-"Hey, get over here quick." We got a situation.
• 11:10
  They call to him.
• 11:10
  Yeah.
• 11:11
  And Charles walks, just walks, walks in and slices dude in the face.
• 11:17
  Literally with the sword.
• 11:19
  Yeah.
• 11:19
  Just walks up to Gary and whoosh.
• 11:20
  Whoosh.
• 11:21
  Whoosh.
• 11:21
  Yeah.
• 11:22
  I don't know if that's the sound that it makes.
• 11:23
  It, 100%, it is the sound.
• 11:25
  I've heard it many times.
• 11:26
  It's a whoosh.
• 11:27
  But yeah, his face and his ear.
• 11:29
  Yeah.
• 11:29
  And- Got cut with the sword so Bobby's like,"Yo, what are you doing?" And freaking homeboy Manson is like, I'm teaching you how to be a man." Which was, again, Yeah working on- Yeah the insecurities.
• 11:41
  Yes.
• 11:42
  And putting him in his place.
• 11:43
  Yep.
• 11:45
  So- Oh Charlie says,"Deal with this." Yeah.
• 11:48
  thank you for, for the mess that I now have to deal with, right?
• 11:51
  Right.
• 11:52
  So they try to, nurse him back to health.
• 11:54
  They like- They get two of the girls with them.
• 11:56
  Yeah.
• 11:57
  For two days.
• 11:58
  For two days like, okay, I didn't know you could die from a face wound like that.
• 12:02
  Well, he didn't die from a face wound.
• 12:04
  Well, no, he didn't die from the face wound, but why wouldn't it heal him?
• 12:07
  Well, I'm, I'm sure they didn't really know how to treat it.
• 12:10
  That's true.
• 12:11
  Okay, so he's got a bad face wound and they're going- How deep it is.
• 12:14
  I mean, he could've been like- And I, I know.
• 12:16
  And- Where it was and the picture looked, I mean, it's, it's a reenactment or whatever, but it looked terrible.
• 12:21
  Yeah.
• 12:22
  So yeah, I get it.
• 12:23
  So they went and they bought supplies.
• 12:25
  They bought hydrogen peroxide, which I guess, great choice, and it's the'60s so whatever.
• 12:30
  They went and bought supplies and tried and it's not getting better, and it's not getting better, it's not getting better.
• 12:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:34
  Um, and so Bobby's calls Manson and Again, because he's trained them to not think for themselves, but I wouldn't have thought this anyway, well, he puts him in a situation where, now- nobody can go anywhere because they're gonna question why he has a sword.
• 12:49
  Well, where did this sword injury come from, sir?
• 12:51
  And I'm, like, really laughing because when we had to take Dylan for, His tonsil stuff tonsils were bleeding, a dude came into the ER, and this guy comes in with a machete stuck in his arm.
• 13:00
  Are you kidding me?
• 13:01
  And everybody's just like- Is, am I seeing this right?
• 13:07
  And the guy that, brought him in, I mean, they obviously rushed him back right away.
• 13:11
  Yeah.
• 13:12
  And they're like,"Oh, do you have any of his information?" The guy's like,"Nope, just strobe," and like he ran out of the hospital.
• 13:17
  And I'm like, that's what I'm picturing as this whole scene- Yeah.
• 13:20
  is going on, is- That sounds like a TV show.
• 13:22
  Mm.
• 13:23
  Yeah.
• 13:23
  No clue.
• 13:24
  Okay.
• 13:24
  So they call Manson, and Manson's like,"Well, you know what you need to do." Right.
• 13:27
  So he turns around and stabs him a couple times.
• 13:29
  And he kills him.
• 13:31
  Right.
• 13:32
  I'm not laughing because he kills him- that's- It's, it's just the way that I said that.
• 13:36
  Yeah.
• 13:37
  So- But then they take his blood, and then they start writing on the walls and doing the things.
• 13:42
  And I think they wrote like political piggy or something like that, in a paw print.
• 13:46
  Right.
• 13:46
  And the paw print's supposed to point to the Black Panthers.
• 13:48
  Right.
• 13:49
  And do we even know if that's how, they would have done it?
• 13:51
  I don't even know if that was like a signature or anything.
• 13:53
  No.
• 13:54
  Okay.
• 13:54
  and the purpose of that was divert, look over here, don't look at us- Yeah kind of thing.
• 13:59
  Yeah.
• 13:59
  So they're waiting to read anything in the newspaper.
• 14:01
  Nothing's being said.
• 14:02
  No.
• 14:03
  And Manson's getting mad.
• 14:04
  Yeah.
• 14:04
  He's like,"They're supposed to blame it on the Black Panthers." Yeah,"Where is my article?" Right.
• 14:09
  Right.
• 14:10
  So he's like big mad at this point, which is again, building on top of all the other stuff- All the things he's already sugary about.
• 14:15
  Yep.
• 14:16
  And at this point also, Bobby gets arrested.
• 14:19
  Right.
• 14:19
  Well, why did he get arrested?
• 14:21
  I don't know.
• 14:22
  Remind me.
• 14:22
  Because he makes the spectacular decision to try to drive Gary's car.
• 14:28
  Yeah.
• 14:29
  Dummy.
• 14:30
  Dum-dum bubblegum.
• 14:30
  Like, what a dummy.
• 14:32
  Uh-huh.
• 14:33
  So no, the car breaks down, and the police are like,"What are you guys doing with this dead man's car?" And the police search it, and they find the murder weapon because big dummy takes the murder weapon with him and doesn't get rid of it Stupid.
• 14:46
  Stupid.
• 14:46
  Obviously they didn't have True Crime Documentaries- They did not back then.
• 14:50
  They did not.
• 14:50
  Well, and they didn't ask Charlie what they were supposed to do with it.
• 14:52
  This is true.
• 14:53
  Not Charlie.
• 14:54
  Yeah.
• 14:54
  So, Bobby gets arrested.
• 14:56
  Yep.
• 14:56
  And now Manson starts freaking out because he's like, He knows too much.
• 15:01
  It's gonna be connected to me.
• 15:02
  I gotta, like- Mm-hmm.
• 15:03
  We don't want him to start singing.
• 15:05
  Yeah.
• 15:05
  Now it's very much free Bobby.
• 15:09
  Yeah.
• 15:10
  It's free Bobby, so this is where it turns super dark.
• 15:14
  Okay.
• 15:14
  I mean, it's already been really, really, really bad and lots of abuse and murder, but this is where it...
• 15:20
  Murder.
• 15:21
  But this gets bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
• 15:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:23
  so what he says needs to happen is we need to break into a house, and it turns out to be the house of the record producer guy terry, yeah.
• 15:35
  Yeah, Terry.
• 15:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:36
  So Charlie is not involved in this.
• 15:39
  No.
• 15:40
  Because he's so flipping psycho smart.
• 15:42
  Yeah.
• 15:43
  He's like,"Nope, my, my hands aren't getting dirty." So he sends three women.
• 15:47
  Uh-huh.
• 15:47
  And he tells them to go buy all black.
• 15:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:49
  And a man.
• 15:50
  And it was one man, right?
• 15:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:52
  It was Tex.
• 15:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:53
  And he's like,"Okay, go do the things." But the way he does this, right, though, is, he...
• 15:57
  Justification,'cause they're all like,"Yo, I don't wanna murder somebody." Mm-hmm.
• 16:00
  And he's like,"Well, we're saving Bobby," to one person.
• 16:03
  The other one is like,"This is about, Terry whatever, Melcher." Mm-hmm.
• 16:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:06
  One of them that was around that time.
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:08
  And then the other one is like,"You're proving you're loyal to me." So he is manipulating them on their weaknesses of- Mm-hmm what is going to work to make this justification.
• 16:16
  Right, like,"She is really wanting my approval for this, so I'll tell her this." Right.
• 16:20
  And, and yep, exactly.
• 16:21
  So he's customizing, justification- Yeah for everybody.
• 16:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:24
  Cuckoo bird.
• 16:24
  Yep.
• 16:25
  The logic is Bobby's in jail for murdering somebody, like stabbing them, writing the blood on the wall, so if we set this up in the exact same way- Mm-hmm they're gonna have to let Bobby go'cause he's in jail.
• 16:36
  But they'll still connect the two.
• 16:37
  Yeah.
• 16:37
  And they'll be like,"Oh, no, it wasn't Bobby.
• 16:39
  Bobby's in jail, so we have to let him out." Mm-hmm.
• 16:42
  So we have Tex, and, Tex takes Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Kasabian there.
• 16:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:50
  And, let's talk about who was in this house at the time.
• 16:54
  Okay.
• 16:54
  They had Sharon Tate, and Sharon Tate was eight and a half months pregnant.
• 16:57
  Ugh.
• 16:58
  Disgusting.
• 16:59
  it was actually her house Right.
• 17:01
  And, and let's preface this with Charles knew that- Nothing Terry no longer lived there.
• 17:07
  Like, he had scoped out the place, and he knew that he moved out.
• 17:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:10
  He knew that it was random people there.
• 17:11
  Yeah.
• 17:11
  But you know what?
• 17:12
  He was like,"Ah, this is still connected.
• 17:14
  Eh." Right.
• 17:14
  Close enough.
• 17:15
  Six Degrees of Separation.
• 17:16
  Pay that for you.
• 17:17
  Right.
• 17:17
  Wrong place, wrong time.
• 17:18
  Ugh.
• 17:18
  Wrong, yeah.
• 17:20
  She's there, and she had lived there with her husband, Roman Polanski, but he wasn't there at the time.
• 17:24
  Right, he was- In Europe, I think Yeah, I think that's what they said, yeah.
• 17:28
  Yeah.
• 17:28
  Okay, we have Steven Parent.
• 17:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:31
  He was 18.
• 17:33
  Um, he was there.
• 17:35
  Jo- uh, Jay Sebring was 35, the celebrity hairstylist.
• 17:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:39
  And he was a former fiancé of Sharon's.
• 17:43
  Oh, what a tangled web we weave.
• 17:45
  And then we have...
• 17:46
  Wojciech Frykowski.
• 17:49
  You did that really good.
• 17:51
  They called him Wojciech, I think.
• 17:53
  I don't know.
• 17:54
  So he, that was a friend of her husband's.
• 17:57
  He was 32 years old.
• 17:58
  And Abigail Folger, she was 25, which is the Folger Coffee heiress.
• 18:03
  Uh-huh.
• 18:03
  Then none of these people had anything to do with Charlie.
• 18:05
  No.
• 18:06
  And, or his imagined grievances.
• 18:07
  No.
• 18:08
  Nothing.
• 18:09
  And this is actually where we get the title for this episode.
• 18:12
  When Tex walks in, which this is gross.
• 18:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:16
  Like, it just, like, gave me the heebie-jeebies.
• 18:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:19
  Tex walks in, and somebody was like,"Who are you?" He identifies himself as the devil, there to do the devil's business.
• 18:26
  So disturbing Yeah.
• 18:27
  Mm-mm.
• 18:28
  So disturbing Don't like that.
• 18:31
  So they had Linda stay outside, and she watched, she kept watch while Tex and the two other girls went inside and just- Rage Right.
• 18:40
  But also with that, right before they went in, one of the girls says that they were doing coke Mm-hmm Like, so they were, like, really amped up- Mm-hmm on drugs.
• 18:50
  And God knows what they did before they left the ranch.
• 18:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:53
  So They're not in the right state of mind to begin with, but- Right really- And then on top of that- Yeah just disconnected.
• 18:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:00
  So Tate's kind of telling the girls, was my understanding of it, kind of like who to go get and what to do with everybody, right?
• 19:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:06
  Like, in the house.
• 19:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:08
  And they're trying to control these people, but some of them start running away.
• 19:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:13
  And, nobody survives this attack.
• 19:16
  No.
• 19:16
  So they are running away and I, I don't wanna get too descriptive.
• 19:21
  Should we get descriptive?
• 19:22
  No.
• 19:23
  It's really, really bad.
• 19:23
  If you- Well, they said that there was like one person had several hundred stab wounds.
• 19:27
  It's just terrible.
• 19:28
  And poor Linda, right, the only reason that she got picked was because she had a driver's license, To be there.
• 19:32
  Yeah.
• 19:33
  So her not giving up her license when- Mm-hmm she joined the commune- Yeah.
• 19:37
  is the reason she got lumped into this whole mess.
• 19:39
  Ugh.
• 19:39
  So just overkill on all these things.
• 19:42
  Stab wounds and then hung.
• 19:44
  and they said that Sharon was still alive when she got hung So she was stabbed, and then they hung her.
• 19:50
  The way that it made it, them sound, they were tied together, but over, so it was like they were both hanging on either side.
• 19:55
  Oh my God, it's terrible.
• 19:57
  Yeah.
• 19:57
  It is so terrible.
• 19:58
  And they showed pictures.
• 19:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:00
  And it is just, a terrible, terrible scene.
• 20:03
  Yeah.
• 20:03
  The worst you can imagine.
• 20:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:06
  So but what they're hoping, and this was in August, like August 8th or something like that.
• 20:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:11
  What they're hoping is that, and they're being Manson, is that like, like we said, this would be connected to the other one and Bobby will go free.
• 20:18
  Right.
• 20:19
  That didn't happen.
• 20:19
  No.
• 20:20
  Did not happen at all.
• 20:21
  No.
• 20:22
  So he's like,"You know what?
• 20:23
  You got, you need something done right, you gotta do it yourself." Right.
• 20:28
  So then he gets involved.
• 20:29
  And this was- Because- I think this was to...
• 20:32
  Oh, and let's- This is the next day.
• 20:33
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  So let's go back real, real quick about Linda, the, the girl keeping watch.
• 20:37
  So she said she did try to go back and, she heard the screams, and she tried to break everything up.
• 20:41
  Like,"Somebody's coming.
• 20:42
  Stop what you're doing." And it didn't work.
• 20:43
  She ended up being the key witness to the prosecution.
• 20:48
  So- Yeah yeah, have that for what it's worth.
• 20:51
  So next night, Charlie is like you said- gotta do stuff he wants to write.
• 20:55
  Well, because, yeah, they weren't connecting this to Bobby.
• 20:58
  Right.
• 20:58
  So he's not getting out.
• 20:59
  Right And- And they said that the Sharon Tate murders was too chaotic.
• 21:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:03
  So it didn't match the pattern of the other ones.
• 21:06
  Right.
• 21:06
  So now we have to do something a little more controlled, I guess.
• 21:09
  Whatever.
• 21:10
  Oh, and they..
• 21:10
  They did write stuff on the walls with that one, too.
• 21:13
  Okay.
• 21:13
  So next day, Charlie's like,"Okay, I'm gonna go do it my dang self," and this is the LaBianca murders.
• 21:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:20
  Go ahead.
• 21:20
  Take it away.
• 21:21
  Okay.
• 21:21
  Well, first- Yeah before that starts- Yeah manson's watching the news, and everybody's just focusing on Sharon Tate- Yeah because she's the it girl at the time.
• 21:27
  She's the, the famous...
• 21:28
  Right.
• 21:28
  I mean, she was l- she was- She'd been in, Valley of the Dolls and lots of other stuff.
• 21:31
  She was, she was rising star.
• 21:33
  Right.
• 21:33
  And that's all they focused on.
• 21:35
  Nobody was saying race war.
• 21:36
  Nobody was re- Mm-hmm nobody was saying anything about the Black Panthers.
• 21:39
  And again- Yeah, and he's- calling him psychotic right.
• 21:42
  He stamps his little tiny size five foot, and he's like,"No.
• 21:47
  I want them to think that it's the Black Panthers." So the next night- was, August 9th to the 10th, like overnight.
• 21:54
  Yes.
• 21:54
  Yeah.
• 21:54
  And Manson goes out with a larger group, including Tex, Patricia, Susan, Linda, Leslie, and Poor.- Linda got roped into this again.
• 22:03
  Linda.
• 22:04
  They- Listen, Linda.
• 22:06
  They drive around somewhat aimlessly until Charlie directs them to Los Fe- Feliz.
• 22:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:13
  Stopping outside the home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca.
• 22:17
  Mm.
• 22:18
  And this is just a random, they're not, wealthy.
• 22:20
  They're not famous.
• 22:21
  Mm.
• 22:21
  It's just this random house.
• 22:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:23
  They just got home.
• 22:24
  Yeah.
• 22:25
  And, Yep they weren't connected to anybody.
• 22:27
  They w- Mm-mm you know, it was just random.
• 22:29
  Yeah, they were just a random average couple in their 40s.
• 22:31
  It was again, wrong place, wrong time.
• 22:33
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  Manson and Tex, this is where, Manson actually, you can get him'cause he actually went into the house.
• 22:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:40
  And, him and Tex restrain both Leno and Rosemary, and then Manson's like,"Peace out.
• 22:45
  Handle it," and just gets in the car and, leaves.
• 22:49
  Like, he leaves them there.
• 22:50
  Right.
• 22:51
  And I'm like, Homie" Right.
• 22:54
  What, like, what do you think's gonna happen?
• 22:56
  They're gonna walk home covered in blood.
• 22:58
  Which they- Which essentially is what happens.
• 22:59
  Yeah.
• 23:00
  Actually, it is what happens, yeah.
• 23:02
  He sends Leslie and Patricia in and tells them to follow Tex's directions.
• 23:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:06
  So Manson leaves with the others.
• 23:08
  They had to hide out until morning and then go back, find their way back to the ranch, which again- they're doing your bidding.
• 23:16
  Yeah.
• 23:16
  The least you could do is give him a ride.
• 23:17
  Or just stay, wait for him just for a minute.
• 23:20
  Be a getaway driver, yep.
• 23:21
  So this is where people are like,"Well, he never actually killed anybody.
• 23:25
  Is he really guilty?" Yes.
• 23:27
  Yes.
• 23:27
  Yes, he is.
• 23:28
  100% he is.
• 23:29
  And again, overkill in that situation.
• 23:33
  And, bad, bad, bad.
• 23:34
  And again, messages on the walls, war.
• 23:37
  I think it said, like,"Death to pigs," or something like that too.
• 23:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:40
  And Helter Skelter- Right is written.
• 23:44
  So now we've got five people killed in Hollywood.
• 23:48
  We've got, the next day, two middle-class, regular people killed.
• 23:51
  LA is like the purge is happening.
• 23:53
  Yeah.
• 23:53
  People are buying guard dogs.
• 23:55
  They're trying to figure out how to protect, check themselves.
• 23:57
  Well, and everybody's making all these connections other than the one Manson wants.
• 24:01
  They're saying,"Okay, her name is Rosemary, and she was pregnant, so Rosemary's Baby." Mm-hmm.
• 24:05
  And, like, all these off-the-wall connections that don't exist that people are trying to draw the lines.
• 24:10
  Right.
• 24:11
  So everybody's losing their minds- Yep in LA'cause what is going on?
• 24:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:16
  It's just random.
• 24:18
  Well, now we got the smart, and that is not what I'm saying.
• 24:22
  And they are very dumb, LAPD.
• 24:26
  They're like,"Yeah, no nothing, nothing connects." Right, right.
• 24:29
  Eh.
• 24:31
  It's a copycat.
• 24:32
  Yeah.
• 24:32
  Like, I, I just, ugh.
• 24:34
  Yeah.
• 24:34
  The botched job that they do on this investigation.
• 24:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:38
  And, the precinct that, for the second murders, were calling up LAPD like,"Hey," let's get together- Let's look at collat- mm-hmm because something seems like it's connected." Mm-hmm.
• 24:47
  And they're like,"No, no, it's a copycat.
• 24:48
  Yeah, bye." And just literally, like- Like nothing nothing.
• 24:53
  Yeah.
• 24:53
  Which is bananas because it is- It's literally like- high-profile they're basically pointing arrows to each other.
• 24:59
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  And yeah, every, like you said, LA is just ablaze with everybody running around buying guard dogs and mace.
• 25:05
  Like it was crazy.
• 25:07
  How many bloody messages on the walls does it take to connect it?
• 25:09
  Uh-huh.
• 25:09
  I don't know.
• 25:10
  Yeah.
• 25:10
  So poor Roman, which was Sharon's husband- Mm-hmm becomes suspect number one.
• 25:15
  Oh, my God, and they show him speaking, and that broke my heart.
• 25:18
  Me too.
• 25:19
  It was just, oh, my gosh.
• 25:21
  This poor man is just trying to get through.
• 25:25
  The minute.
• 25:26
  Yeah.
• 25:27
  He's mourning his wife, his baby, and then we find out that his mom was killed, during the Nazi invasion.
• 25:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:33
  Um, And she was pregnant as well.
• 25:34
  Yeah.
• 25:35
  So this is- Like, bringing up all kinds of feelings and yeah.
• 25:39
  All the things, yeah.
• 25:40
  All of them.
• 25:41
  Awful.
• 25:41
  Yeah.
• 25:41
  He makes, a statement to the press like,"Please," Like, yeah"What are you doing?" Yeah.
• 25:46
  They basically turn it into, this big circus and- I- implicate that he was guilty, and he was not- Right obviously.
• 25:52
  Right.
• 25:53
  And that still happens to this day.
• 25:54
  They take something and they run with it, Mm-hmm the press.
• 25:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:57
  Um, just for views or whatever.
• 26:00
  Well, and the,, it's the headlines for me that they twist just for clickbait.
• 26:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:04
  Just to get you to click, and then you open and it's so misleading, and they do it to get the clicks and the reads and the stuff.
• 26:11
  But it is just, can be so devastating.
• 26:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:14
  so this is where we now find out that there's a raid on the ranch.
• 26:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:18
  Let's go.
• 26:19
  Okay.
• 26:21
  So these dummies at the Manson ranch- have another side hustle.
• 26:26
  I mean, they gotta make money somehow.
• 26:28
  And they're stealing car parts, and they're, like, driving around in these dune buggies, like these modified dune buggies.
• 26:33
  Again, random.
• 26:36
  We've got The Beach Boys, we have dune buggies, we have Helter Skelter, The Beatles, race wars, the Black Panthers.
• 26:43
  Like, all of this just makes no sense.
• 26:48
  No.
• 26:49
  So the sheriff's deputies were investigating the ranch for auto theft, and on August 16th, one week after the Tate murders- Mm they raid the ranch.
• 26:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:57
  They arrest everyone there- Mm-hmm including Manson.
• 27:00
  So he's thinking he's caught for the murders.
• 27:02
  Right.
• 27:02
  And then he realizes,"Oh, it's only for stolen car parts." Okay.
• 27:05
  "We're- Phew we're golden." Yeah.
• 27:08
  I'm just like,"Oh, my gosh." I know.
• 27:11
  So they, have everybody in custody.
• 27:15
  Well, then there's a problem with the warrant.
• 27:17
  They waited too long to go raid the property.
• 27:20
  To execute it.
• 27:20
  It was supposed to be on the 13th, and they didn't go till the 16th, so it was not valid.
• 27:25
  They had- Like, all of that was just irrelevant.
• 27:26
  Yeah.
• 27:27
  They had helicopters there.
• 27:28
  I mean, it was, like, a full-on raid, and they had to release everybody.
• 27:32
  That is crazy.
• 27:32
  Yeah.
• 27:33
  So, Charlie's like,"Woo-hoo." Right.
• 27:37
  Right.
• 27:38
  But everybody else is like,"Yeah, no, I'm out." Like- That is way too close to comfort- Yeah and we're done.
• 27:42
  So Tex goes back to Texas.
• 27:44
  Patricia goes to Alabama, and Manson moves all the remaining people to Death Valley.
• 27:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:51
  And they move on to Barker Ranch, and Charlie loves this because it's even more isolated than the previous ranch.
• 27:56
  Great.
• 27:57
  Yeah.
• 27:57
  Great.
• 27:58
  No outsiders, no normalcy, no escape.
• 28:02
  And no clocks.
• 28:03
  I'm still stuck on that, no clocks.
• 28:05
  Like, the, that's like a torture thing, you know, when you don't know what time it is.
• 28:09
  It's just, ugh.
• 28:10
  exactly- Mm-hmm what every healthy cult needs.
• 28:17
  And now the cult becomes a prison.
• 28:19
  Yeah.
• 28:19
  So Stephanie starts wanting to go home.
• 28:22
  Charlie senses this, and he a- flat out asks her, you wanna go home?" And she says,"Yeah, I do." And then he attacks her.
• 28:30
  Mm.
• 28:30
  And he threatens her in front of everybody else, proving the point that- Mm-hmm you do not leave.
• 28:33
  You're in.
• 28:34
  Yep.
• 28:34
  You don't leave this family.
• 28:35
  Yep.
• 28:36
  Family.
• 28:37
  Right.
• 28:38
  So let me, let me ask you this.
• 28:39
  Like- Okay do you think that if he got a record deal, would any of this have happened?
• 28:43
  I think something would've happened, but not this.
• 28:46
  Yeah.
• 28:46
  I think he still would've done evil things,'cause I think he had that in his- Yeah body.
• 28:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:53
  But I think it would've gone a different path.
• 28:54
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  I think he probably would've left everybody, like the whole commune.
• 28:58
  Yeah.
• 28:58
  Oh, 100%.
• 28:59
  And- He's done, he's outtie- Right and he's going to do big things, but the next thing that set him off would, whatever it might be, What do you think?
• 29:07
  Yeah, I, I think he would've left the commune, but I think, he would've been, evil in the industry.
• 29:10
  Yeah.
• 29:11
  I think he would've tried to still get- He would've still done evil things He wanted to be, like, famous, but then I think he also would want to do the manipulations behind the scenes.
• 29:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:20
  You hear all these producers- Mm-hmm doing all these awful things.
• 29:22
  Uh-huh.
• 29:23
  I think that he would've also taken on that role.
• 29:24
  Yeah.
• 29:25
  Yeah, I don't think he would've done, like, this specific set of crimes.
• 29:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:28
  But he still was living for evil reasons.
• 29:31
  Yeah.
• 29:31
  Yeah.
• 29:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:33
  All right.
• 29:33
  So come back for episode three, that's gonna be next week, where we wrap up the Conversations With the Killer: The Charles Manson Tapes.
• 29:41
  Please leave us a review.
• 29:41
  We love you.
• 29:42
  Bye.
• 29:42
  Bye