Latest / UK Column Radio / What the Vet saw? Question everything with Roger Meacock Consultant Veterinary Surgeon

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What the Vet saw? Question everything with Roger Meacock Consultant Veterinary Surgeon · UK Column Radio

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another UK column interview. My name
0:11
Speaker 1: is Debbie Evans, and for those of you that don't
0:13
Speaker 1: know me, I'm a retired State registered nurse old School
0:18
Speaker 1: and I was a government advisor for the Department.
0:20
Speaker 2: Of Health for five years.
0:23
Speaker 1: And even though I'm a retired nurse and my experience
0:28
Speaker 1: is nursing humans, I also love animals and I love plants,
0:33
Speaker 1: and I love wildlife.
0:35
Speaker 2: And we all need to eat right. It doesn't matter.
0:38
Speaker 1: Whether we're meat eaters or whether we're plant eaters or vegans, vegetarians.
0:43
Speaker 1: Whatever you eat, we all need to eat. However, how
0:47
Speaker 1: safe is our food? And we've been talking a lot
0:51
Speaker 1: on UK column about One Health and I just want
0:54
Speaker 1: to read this out so that you get this accurately,
0:57
Speaker 1: that one Health impact all of us. One Health is
1:02
Speaker 1: a collaboration of multiple disciplines working together globally, nationally and locally.
1:10
Speaker 1: This is in order to obtain optimal health for people, animals,
1:15
Speaker 1: and the environment, and the environment includes plants as defined
1:21
Speaker 1: by the One Health Task Force. Now, animals are a
1:26
Speaker 1: great of a great interest to many of you watching,
1:30
Speaker 1: and I'm always delighted to be able to speak to
1:33
Speaker 1: Roger Meekok who is pretty much our resident now consultant
1:38
Speaker 1: veterinary surgeon, and he really is one of a kind.
1:43
Speaker 1: He's known to us as the gentle Vet, the Last
1:47
Speaker 1: Chance bet. Roger sees animals that perhaps established medicine has
1:53
Speaker 1: failed or they've just come to the end of the line,
1:56
Speaker 1: and his practice natural healing solutions really should tell you
2:01
Speaker 1: all you need to know about Roger. And he has
2:03
Speaker 1: experience treating humans as well. And we've had many previous
2:08
Speaker 1: interviews with Roger, and for those of you that haven't
2:11
Speaker 1: seen them, to go back and look the article links
2:14
Speaker 1: will be I'm sorry, the links will be in the
2:16
Speaker 1: article beneath this, but for those of you that haven't
2:20
Speaker 1: seen it and want to go straight to it, we've
2:22
Speaker 1: got an interview mRNA in Animals, the gentle.
2:26
Speaker 2: Vet two roars.
2:27
Speaker 1: Roger's also been talking to us about big Farmer as
2:32
Speaker 1: in pha r M and small farmer as.
2:37
Speaker 2: In far Meer and another interview fit as a butcher's Dog.
2:43
Speaker 1: So there's plenty on the website for you to go
2:44
Speaker 1: and look at so that you can get a feel
2:47
Speaker 1: of where Roger's coming from. But in the light of
2:50
Speaker 1: the recent Farmer's protests that Mike Robinson and by Brian
2:56
Speaker 1: Gerish went to in London. I thought it was perfect
2:59
Speaker 1: time went out of the blue. Roger rang me just
3:03
Speaker 1: the other day and said, hmmm, I think something's brewing,
3:08
Speaker 1: and I think there's something we need to talk about.
3:11
Speaker 1: And we did, and we're going to come to that
3:15
Speaker 1: later on in the interview, but for now, I thought,
3:19
Speaker 1: let's start at the Farmer's protests and welcome Roger. Thank
3:23
Speaker 1: you so much for agreeing to join us again, because
3:26
Speaker 1: I know you've always got your finger on the pulse.
3:29
Speaker 1: Say hello to everybody, and perhaps give us a little
3:32
Speaker 1: brief introduction.
3:33
Speaker 3: Hi Debbie, Hi everybody. Yes, brief introduction to me. I've
3:39
Speaker 3: been a VET for something years, and for the last
3:43
Speaker 3: twenty five plus of those I've been pretty well exclusively
3:47
Speaker 3: working using complimentary alternative techniques. So I sort of take on,
3:53
Speaker 3: as Debbie says, the sort of cases where everybody is
3:57
Speaker 3: maybe struggling or giving up, or they've been given not
3:59
Speaker 3: a lot to hope, or they just want a more
4:02
Speaker 3: natural approach to treatment. So I tend to work on
4:08
Speaker 3: trying to cure disease rather than rather than suppressing symptoms
4:13
Speaker 3: and course cure is a bit of a dirty word
4:15
Speaker 3: when it comes to farmer because you know, a cured
4:18
Speaker 3: patient is no longer a customer. So yeah, that's that's
4:23
Speaker 3: basically where where I come from. I started off as
4:27
Speaker 3: a farm vet when I first qualified conventionally, and I still,
4:32
Speaker 3: you know, I still love love the farming side of
4:35
Speaker 3: what I used to do, although I don't really do
4:37
Speaker 3: a lot of farm work now. I sort of see
4:39
Speaker 3: a couple of cows on my family friendly John's Dairy
4:47
Speaker 3: Dora's Dairy where I get my raw milk, and John,
4:50
Speaker 3: the farmer there has done some programs with the UK
4:53
Speaker 3: column as well, and so occasionally I do still treat
4:57
Speaker 3: a few cows and calves and things for John when
4:59
Speaker 3: I'm picking up my raw milk. So I have this
5:04
Speaker 3: affinity to farming that sort of drove me really to
5:07
Speaker 3: go up to London on Tuesday and support the farmers
5:11
Speaker 3: and lend my voice and support to their demonstration over
5:15
Speaker 3: the inheritance tax. And it was interesting being there really,
5:22
Speaker 3: and the one thing that sort of I picked up
5:25
Speaker 3: on really struck me was that that doesn't seem too
5:30
Speaker 3: much grasp, but what's actually happening is deliberate ploy, and
5:35
Speaker 3: maybe the farmers were giving the government a face saving
5:39
Speaker 3: way out to reverse their decision over the inheritance tax
5:45
Speaker 3: by saying it was a mist calculation of figures and
5:49
Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. But I actually don't believe
5:52
Speaker 3: it's a mist calculation at all. I think they've got
5:55
Speaker 3: every intention to do what they're trying to do. They're
5:58
Speaker 3: trying to they're trying to get rid of small farmers.
6:01
Speaker 3: They want large farms, they want industrial farming, they want monoculture,
6:07
Speaker 3: they want to push everybody towards plant based eating, which
6:12
Speaker 3: as a carnival myself, that just doesn't fit. And I
6:17
Speaker 3: think that there's more to it than is often presented.
6:21
Speaker 3: And we know this really, you know, from many many angles.
6:26
Speaker 3: We've come across the whole rewilding idea of what they
6:30
Speaker 3: want to do to the UK. We know that they
6:33
Speaker 3: want to put wind farms and solar farms on the
6:36
Speaker 3: on the farmland and instead of producing food, which is
6:39
Speaker 3: what it should be being produced for. And and there's
6:45
Speaker 3: been sort of came back and watched a few videos
6:48
Speaker 3: on YouTube, and there was a one professor of economics
6:52
Speaker 3: was saying how actually it was it was it was
6:54
Speaker 3: beneficial to the farmers because it would drive the price
6:58
Speaker 3: of land down, and that was be good and then
7:01
Speaker 3: that people wouldn't want to use it as a tax dodge.
7:03
Speaker 3: And that's all very well, and there was an element
7:06
Speaker 3: of truth in what he said. But there's a big
7:09
Speaker 3: butt and that is the farmers if they haven't got
7:12
Speaker 3: the land value, they've got nothing to borrow against when
7:16
Speaker 3: they want to buy their half million pounds worth of
7:18
Speaker 3: combine harvester. So they need a certain value in the
7:22
Speaker 3: land in order to be able to borrow against it
7:25
Speaker 3: to be able to carry on farming. And also if
7:28
Speaker 3: the price of land drops then of course it's going
7:31
Speaker 3: to be a lot cheaper for the corporations to buy
7:34
Speaker 3: up and put their wind farms and solar farms and
7:37
Speaker 3: everything else on. So and we've also heard from Sandy
7:40
Speaker 3: Adams in the past, how you know it certainly for
7:43
Speaker 3: Somerset that you know they've got zero provision for farming
7:47
Speaker 3: in the future, so that there is definitely a bigger
7:50
Speaker 3: agenda here than just the inheritance tax. And as I think,
7:57
Speaker 3: there was a question time in part Toliament yesterday and
8:02
Speaker 3: the government were challenged as to whether they would freeze
8:05
Speaker 3: the inheritance tax as a minimum guarantee, and they wouldn't
8:08
Speaker 3: do that. So what starts all for fifty percent of
8:13
Speaker 3: inheritance tax will creep up and up and up and up,
8:16
Speaker 3: and before we know it, they'll decide that's not enough
8:19
Speaker 3: either and they'll be putting a land tax on the farms.
8:22
Speaker 3: So you know, this is a slippery slope, and you
8:27
Speaker 3: know we need to see it for what it is.
8:29
Speaker 3: We know the agendas that are coming through from the
8:32
Speaker 3: United Nations, we know the climate agenda and all the
8:35
Speaker 3: rest of it, and this is all part of that
8:39
Speaker 3: bigger picture that we really need to be aware of
8:43
Speaker 3: and seeing what's coming on down the road.
8:45
Speaker 1: Roger, everything that you've said that actually echoes pretty much
8:50
Speaker 1: what Brian Gerrish and Mike Robinson have said previously. Is
8:54
Speaker 1: they went to the farmer's protests too. And what you've
8:58
Speaker 1: said I think is quite concers in effect. What I
9:02
Speaker 1: guess we're suggesting, and correct me if I'm wrong, is
9:05
Speaker 1: that perhaps the farmers have missed the point and because
9:09
Speaker 1: they're not seeing the bigger agenda, the agenda from the
9:12
Speaker 1: wef you will own nothing, right, I mean, everything's going
9:17
Speaker 1: to be apparently seized, including land. So does it seem
9:22
Speaker 1: to you as though the farmers need a basic A
9:26
Speaker 1: basic I guess bringing them up to date, which is
9:31
Speaker 1: where we have got to today and what has what
9:34
Speaker 1: has been announced previously.
9:37
Speaker 2: That's got us to where we are, because.
9:38
Speaker 1: I feel as though the farmers, from what I'm hearing
9:41
Speaker 1: from people at the protest, don't quite know what action
9:45
Speaker 1: to take, and because they're focusing straight on the inheritance tax,
9:49
Speaker 1: they're missing everything else. What can we do to galvanize
9:53
Speaker 1: farmers and to try to help them understand the bigger picture?
9:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, A good question, DEBI. And it's difficult because obviously,
10:02
Speaker 3: one of the things about farming is it's a way
10:04
Speaker 3: of life, and it starts at five o'clock celi o'clock
10:08
Speaker 3: in the morning and it goes through to sili o'clock
10:10
Speaker 3: the following morning. You know, by the time, there's no
10:15
Speaker 3: such thing as a nine to five in a farming job.
10:18
Speaker 3: You know, even when you think you've finished and you've
10:21
Speaker 3: you've put the cows, headed them down for the night,
10:24
Speaker 3: and you go in you have your tea, then there's
10:26
Speaker 3: another check to do after that. And if there's a
10:29
Speaker 3: cow carving and you think she's probably going to be
10:32
Speaker 3: all right. There's another check to do after that, and
10:34
Speaker 3: by then you might decide she's not actually getting on
10:36
Speaker 3: with it and you need to intervene and help her
10:38
Speaker 3: to calve, or maybe it needs to cesaria, you need
10:41
Speaker 3: to get the vet out. You know, there was various
10:43
Speaker 3: times when I was a farm vet where you there
10:46
Speaker 3: were sort of danger periods, if you like, when sort
10:50
Speaker 3: of the out of hours when I was on duty,
10:54
Speaker 3: and it would sort of be after the farms, after
10:57
Speaker 3: the farm had finished milking, because he'd be too busy
11:00
Speaker 3: milking to stop, so he sort of separated a cow
11:03
Speaker 3: out and put her on her own to have a
11:05
Speaker 3: check after he'd finished milking. So if he decided she
11:09
Speaker 3: needed seeing at that point, that was your first danger
11:11
Speaker 3: point of being called out in the evening, and then
11:15
Speaker 3: there was probably another one ten or eleven o'clock at night,
11:19
Speaker 3: and then there was probably another danger point sort of
11:22
Speaker 3: midnight to one o'clock in the morning. So you know
11:26
Speaker 3: that the farmers are working around the clock, and to
11:30
Speaker 3: be fair to them, they probably haven't had the opportunity
11:34
Speaker 3: to delve into things in perhaps the same way that
11:38
Speaker 3: the rest of us have delved into and you know,
11:41
Speaker 3: if they're listening to Radio four or something on the
11:46
Speaker 3: on in their tractors, then you know they're going to
11:48
Speaker 3: be getting the BBC narrative as well. So I don't
11:52
Speaker 3: think it's surprising that a lot of the farmers haven't
11:55
Speaker 3: latched onto the bigger picture and they're feeling so much
12:00
Speaker 3: a threat. Maybe it's somewhere they don't particularly want to
12:04
Speaker 3: go either. But but but you know, we do need
12:07
Speaker 3: to be aware of what's going on, and we do
12:10
Speaker 3: need to educate the farmer somehow to you know, to
12:16
Speaker 3: realize that there is this bigger agenda United Nations and
12:21
Speaker 3: packed for the future and or you know and Prince Jerild,
12:25
Speaker 3: King Charles's plans for the UK and the and these
12:30
Speaker 3: aren't new plans, you know, they date back to the
12:34
Speaker 3: United Nations many years, you know, seventies, eighties, nineties where
12:40
Speaker 3: they started, you know, talking about how they wanted to
12:44
Speaker 3: rewild countries. I don't know the exact figures for the UK,
12:50
Speaker 3: but if they mirror, if they mirror what's going on
12:52
Speaker 3: in the what's planned for the US, which wouldn't surprise me,
12:56
Speaker 3: then we're looking at something like a twenty five percent
12:59
Speaker 3: of the country being rewarded by twenty thirty and fifty
13:03
Speaker 3: percent of the country being rewarded by twenty fifty and
13:08
Speaker 3: then the people being kept corralled into twenty five percent
13:13
Speaker 3: of the land mass with an effective buffer area of
13:17
Speaker 3: the remaining twenty five percent. So you know that that
13:22
Speaker 3: is certainly what is on the cards. And we look
13:25
Speaker 3: to see what's happening in the States, and Bill Gates
13:27
Speaker 3: has brought up huge tracts of farmland there as well,
13:32
Speaker 3: so you know it is there was definitely a much
13:36
Speaker 3: bigger agenda. It's been going on a lot longer and
13:40
Speaker 3: somehow we do need to get farmers educated. And back
13:46
Speaker 3: in the summer I did a talk down in Devon
13:51
Speaker 3: for some farmers down there, was primarily on climate, but
13:55
Speaker 3: it does actually I think it hit me actually how
13:58
Speaker 3: useful having a face to face meetings are and possibly
14:03
Speaker 3: if farmers are there in the having an evening talk somewhere,
14:07
Speaker 3: then that's when they're probably going to engage more because
14:12
Speaker 3: they can't get distracted by anything else and have to
14:15
Speaker 3: worry about what what the cow that they've checked is
14:18
Speaker 3: doing in the you know outside as well too. So
14:22
Speaker 3: but we know we do need to support our farmers.
14:25
Speaker 3: And you know, as if they do what is being
14:28
Speaker 3: talked about in terms of supplying the public direct and
14:32
Speaker 3: not supplying the supermarkets, to try and you know, make
14:35
Speaker 3: the government see sense over the inheritance tax issue. Then
14:38
Speaker 3: you know, people need to be supporting their local farmers.
14:42
Speaker 3: You know, go and buy locally. You'll be amazed at
14:46
Speaker 3: the quality of the food that they're producing. And and
14:51
Speaker 3: that's that's the best we can do is to support
14:54
Speaker 3: them and try and have an engagement conversation and have
14:56
Speaker 3: a chat with them and you know, let them know
14:59
Speaker 3: that there is a bigger picture.
15:01
Speaker 1: I absolutely hear you, and I think it's very important
15:05
Speaker 1: that we do hear that message from people like you, Roger,
15:09
Speaker 1: of how hard a farmer's life is and that it
15:13
Speaker 1: is twenty four hours. And as you were talking about that,
15:16
Speaker 1: I was writing a few things down because of course
15:18
Speaker 1: they're under intense scrutiny and pressure with Dehra, so they
15:22
Speaker 1: have them to negotiate. Often they have bets, bills and vets,
15:28
Speaker 1: visits to pay for and to organize, whether that be
15:31
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night or whenever. And I
15:35
Speaker 1: was shocked actually at the cost of farming equipment. I mean,
15:40
Speaker 1: you know it runs into half a million a million,
15:43
Speaker 1: you know, easy, easy for combine harvesters, as you were
15:47
Speaker 1: mentioning before, I was shocked at the price. And also
15:51
Speaker 1: the danger that's involved in farming. I think it's probably,
15:55
Speaker 1: if not the most dangerous profession, it's one of the
15:58
Speaker 1: most dangerous profession and because of all the equipment and
16:02
Speaker 1: the danger that surrounds it. So I completely get that
16:08
Speaker 1: why farmers may not have picked up on the memo
16:11
Speaker 1: of what we're seeing. And I know that you know
16:14
Speaker 1: here on the UK Column Charles Mallett has done a
16:17
Speaker 1: huge amount of work with some of your colleagues as well,
16:21
Speaker 1: Roger and some of your contacts on raw milk and
16:25
Speaker 1: farming and not just farming in the UK, but farming abroad.
16:28
Speaker 1: And I think I would like to make this interview
16:32
Speaker 1: a specific shout out. If anybody is watching that knows
16:37
Speaker 1: a farmer, or is a farmer, or is involved.
16:41
Speaker 2: In the movement at all.
16:43
Speaker 1: Please come and watch UK Column because we support you
16:48
Speaker 1: and everything that Roger's just said about. You need to
16:53
Speaker 1: be providing us directly with the food. Don't send it
16:56
Speaker 1: to Tesco, don't send it to Sainsbury any other good
16:59
Speaker 1: supermarket will do. I won't say good and I'll take
17:01
Speaker 1: that word out. Any other supermarket is included. Sell it
17:05
Speaker 1: to us direct. We will support you, our audience will
17:10
Speaker 1: support you, and we need to know where you are.
17:15
Speaker 1: And of course, Roger, that goes to the next question,
17:17
Speaker 1: and many people are going to be watching this and going, well,
17:20
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of Birmingham, I'm in the middle
17:22
Speaker 1: of Manchester. I'm in the middle of London. Where do
17:25
Speaker 1: I find a farm shop? How can small farmers get
17:30
Speaker 1: to the public more easily if we're not living in
17:35
Speaker 1: a rural I mean, I'm very fortunate we have a
17:38
Speaker 1: farmer's market once a week locally, so I can go
17:41
Speaker 1: to that and I can pick up fresh, organic, local produce,
17:45
Speaker 1: whether that's meat or whether it's fruit, vegetables, whatever. So
17:50
Speaker 1: what happens to people in the city. How can farmers
17:53
Speaker 1: help us and how can we help them?
17:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, good question, Debia and cities have expanded, and you
18:01
Speaker 3: know it been days gone by the cities weren't that big,
18:04
Speaker 3: and they could go out into the countryside and the
18:06
Speaker 3: farms weren't that much closer to be able to supply
18:09
Speaker 3: the bigger cities. But it is a problem. It is
18:12
Speaker 3: a problem. And I mean some of the farms will
18:16
Speaker 3: have food, you know, do food boxes which can be
18:19
Speaker 3: sent out. I mean, I buy some of my meat
18:23
Speaker 3: for my carnival diet, I'll buy the buy it online
18:25
Speaker 3: in bulk and get a better price, and it will
18:27
Speaker 3: be delivered to me on the day that I choose,
18:31
Speaker 3: and it comes sort of semi frozen or chilled in
18:35
Speaker 3: packages and it's fresh, and then I can freeze it
18:38
Speaker 3: and use it as I need. So, you know, there
18:40
Speaker 3: are ways around doing it for those who are you know,
18:44
Speaker 3: maybe not so accessible to go into a farm shop directly.
18:48
Speaker 3: I've got a sort of vision a bit like you know,
18:52
Speaker 3: we could replace supermarkets with something equivalent size building, but
18:57
Speaker 3: it isn't a supermarket run by a company. It is
19:01
Speaker 3: a collection of local producers within the one space, so
19:07
Speaker 3: people have the advantage of going you know, that is
19:10
Speaker 3: exactly the same as a farmer's market, but they tend
19:12
Speaker 3: to be outside, don't they farmers' markets. What we do
19:15
Speaker 3: need is we need sort of a chain of of
19:17
Speaker 3: warehouses around around the countryside, around the whole country where
19:23
Speaker 3: local farmers basically just sell or local butchers they have
19:29
Speaker 3: they have one sort of corner of it and and
19:34
Speaker 3: it's sort of, you know, an amalgamation of local produce
19:39
Speaker 3: rather than something that shipped in from the other side
19:42
Speaker 3: of the world. So and actually they're you know, the
19:45
Speaker 3: healthiest food we can eat is what's produced locally for us.
19:48
Speaker 3: And there's there's good scientific reasons why that is. You know,
19:54
Speaker 3: getting these tropical fruits in the middle of the winter
19:57
Speaker 3: is actually not good for us, for it increases the deuterium,
20:03
Speaker 3: the heavy hydrogen that we get in the body when
20:07
Speaker 3: our body is at a time of year we can't
20:10
Speaker 3: get rid of it in quite the same way. So
20:12
Speaker 3: there are health reasons why local produce is the best
20:16
Speaker 3: product produce that we can we can buy and eat
20:20
Speaker 3: at in season without getting it shipped all around the world.
20:24
Speaker 3: So you know, there are we need we need to
20:28
Speaker 3: be keeping UK production to be able to support UK
20:33
Speaker 3: UK health and it is it's that fundamental. So you know,
20:41
Speaker 3: it's just so important that we support our farmers and
20:47
Speaker 3: you know, and recognize the job that they do. And
20:49
Speaker 3: as you say, you know, there are dangers around farms
20:52
Speaker 3: that I remember when I was a student and before
20:54
Speaker 3: we went out onto farm experiences and things. We got shown,
20:59
Speaker 3: you know, health and safety film about hazards on a
21:02
Speaker 3: farm because of all the potential and situations we might
21:06
Speaker 3: be in when we were students and we were going
21:08
Speaker 3: to get farm experience. And then later on obviously we
21:11
Speaker 3: got experience you know as sventry side on farms and
21:15
Speaker 3: things as well, so you know there are hazards there
21:18
Speaker 3: that they just got to deal with. And you know
21:23
Speaker 3: the idea. I saw a great men on Facebook yesterday.
21:26
Speaker 3: Obviously we had a bit of snow around the country
21:28
Speaker 3: yesterday and you hear about schools closing down, which never
21:32
Speaker 3: used to happen in our day. You know, we'd go
21:34
Speaker 3: along and have a great big snowball fighter at playtime
21:38
Speaker 3: and it was great fun and nobody got badly hurt,
21:42
Speaker 3: you know, everybody you might got wet, but that was
21:44
Speaker 3: probably and cold a bit, but that was the worst
21:47
Speaker 3: that happened to us. And there was a great men
21:50
Speaker 3: that said, you know, new breaking news farmers working through
21:53
Speaker 3: the snow, you know, because it doesn't matter what the
21:56
Speaker 3: weather is, that the animals still need feeding or milking
22:00
Speaker 3: or saying to checking. Some of the field jobs may
22:04
Speaker 3: not be possible when the weather's bad, but there's always
22:07
Speaker 3: something to do around a farm, and it is that
22:14
Speaker 3: it's a it's a complete lifestyle. And that was why
22:18
Speaker 3: I went into being a form bat when I first started,
22:20
Speaker 3: because I enjoyed that out outside a lifestyle and and
22:26
Speaker 3: feeling that I was part of a business as well.
22:29
Speaker 3: You know, the farmers weren't just clients to me, they
22:32
Speaker 3: were my friends. I saw them on a regular basis.
22:35
Speaker 3: They probably didn't want to seem necessarily as often as
22:37
Speaker 3: they did, but you know, certainly on the dairy side,
22:40
Speaker 3: we were doing a lot of routine visits to try
22:42
Speaker 3: and help keep productivity as carving patterns tight and things
22:47
Speaker 3: like that. So you know, when you're when you're there
22:51
Speaker 3: on a regular basis and you know, for an hour
22:53
Speaker 3: or two at a time doing doing certain jobs, then
22:56
Speaker 3: you know, you get to have other conversations and the
22:59
Speaker 3: farmers become your friends as much as as much as
23:01
Speaker 3: her clients. And that was the sort of aspect of
23:05
Speaker 3: eventerory life that I enjoyed. And then when I sort
23:08
Speaker 3: of went down the alternative field didn't really lend itself
23:11
Speaker 3: very much or very well to the same degree to
23:15
Speaker 3: the farm animal side of things. But I still have
23:19
Speaker 3: that affinity, you know, with that farming background.
23:22
Speaker 1: I know everything that you've said that Roger really just
23:26
Speaker 1: points more to what I've been saying for ages which
23:29
Speaker 1: the UK is being made deliberately engineered, deliberately to become unsustainable.
23:35
Speaker 1: You know, we hear about this sustainable goals, We're all
23:38
Speaker 1: going to fire off loads of money because of the
23:42
Speaker 1: sustainable initiatives, and yet the UK is unsustainable. We can't
23:46
Speaker 1: sustain ourselves with food. And what you said there about
23:50
Speaker 1: local produce now, I hear this so many times from
23:56
Speaker 1: herbal medicine practitioners, especially saying use local herbs, herbs that
24:02
Speaker 1: are indigenous to this country. If you use things from
24:06
Speaker 1: other countries, they may not work as well. Use it,
24:09
Speaker 1: use your local, your local resources. And honey, for example,
24:16
Speaker 1: an amazing heather honey in Scotland from one of our
24:20
Speaker 1: amazing herbal practitioners, Brian Lamb, works absolutely fantastically for all
24:27
Speaker 1: sorts of health issues, including sore throats, strepe. Yet if
24:31
Speaker 1: you use a honey perhaps that's more specialized from another country,
24:35
Speaker 1: it may not work as well. So it really is
24:37
Speaker 1: very important to support our local farmers. Farmers in the
24:43
Speaker 1: UK but you know, Roger, you know so much about
24:48
Speaker 1: the agenda and what's going on, and there are going
24:51
Speaker 1: to be hopefully some farmers watching today perhaps that have
24:54
Speaker 1: never watched before, that have got all the best intentions
24:59
Speaker 1: in the world, but just haven't had the time to
25:02
Speaker 1: catch up with stuff. If you had to summarize everything
25:07
Speaker 1: just to give them a hint of what they are
25:09
Speaker 1: up against, what would your message.
25:12
Speaker 2: To them be.
25:12
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that's put you on the spot a little bit,
25:15
Speaker 1: but what would you say directly to any small farmer
25:20
Speaker 1: or any farmer now that's watching, perhaps for the first time.
25:24
Speaker 3: Well, certainly we need them to keep going, is the
25:26
Speaker 3: main message. You know, don't give up because I think
25:29
Speaker 3: times will change and people will ultimately you know, look
25:35
Speaker 3: to local produce and regenerative farming is definitely one that's
25:40
Speaker 3: around the corner, and that has to be good for
25:43
Speaker 3: the farmers. It has to be good for the animals
25:45
Speaker 3: as well, because they're not under such high pressure to
25:49
Speaker 3: produce as well. So you know, there are better times ahead,
25:53
Speaker 3: I'm sure, And I think this whole global agenda, which
25:58
Speaker 3: is what it's all about, really will ultimately fail. I
26:01
Speaker 3: think that people are waking up and seeing it for
26:03
Speaker 3: what it is. But there is definitely an intention to
26:10
Speaker 3: you know, sort of go down the whole sort of
26:12
Speaker 3: multinational corporate route. You know, we we hear of companies
26:17
Speaker 3: like Monsanto buying up all the seeds so that and
26:21
Speaker 3: stopping farmers around the world from saving their seeds so
26:24
Speaker 3: that they have to keep buying from from the from
26:28
Speaker 3: from the from the seed producers now and you know,
26:31
Speaker 3: so that there is definitely a bigger agenda here. And
26:37
Speaker 3: as we know, I mean, if you look at the
26:38
Speaker 3: Sea Forti's webs Citi's website, they talk about ideally getting
26:44
Speaker 3: our meat consumption down to zero, but but they think
26:47
Speaker 3: realistically they can get us down to sixteen kilos of
26:50
Speaker 3: meat a year. Probably do that, I don't know, in
26:54
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks, but so I'm going to I'm
26:58
Speaker 3: going to be very thin by the end of the year.
27:01
Speaker 3: So we do need we do need, you know, our
27:04
Speaker 3: farmers to keep keep producing. And and I think you know,
27:10
Speaker 3: they're going to have to maybe sit it out for
27:11
Speaker 3: a little while and and sweat it out, but but
27:16
Speaker 3: stick to their guns and you know, just keep keep
27:20
Speaker 3: trying to find ways to to keep going because I
27:23
Speaker 3: think the time will will will turn and you know
27:27
Speaker 3: people will start looking for locally you know, locally produced
27:31
Speaker 3: food and produce and and and and the quality of
27:35
Speaker 3: it as well. You know, our farmers are have got
27:39
Speaker 3: some of the highest welfare levels in the whole world,
27:45
Speaker 3: you know, certainly. You know, we we got rid of
27:47
Speaker 3: pig stalls and things like that in the UK before
27:49
Speaker 3: that before lots of other countries around the world. So
27:53
Speaker 3: you know, our farmers are looking out for the animals
27:56
Speaker 3: as much as they possibly can. There's always the thing
28:00
Speaker 3: that everything can always be improved, as you know, and
28:04
Speaker 3: they know that as well, and they're always trying to
28:06
Speaker 3: do that, but it's got to be economic at the
28:08
Speaker 3: same time for them to keep going. And so if
28:11
Speaker 3: we want animal welfare to improve, then we've got to
28:15
Speaker 3: keep supporting those who are actually pushing it forward, which
28:18
Speaker 3: is the UK farmer. So I would always urge people
28:21
Speaker 3: whenever you possibly can to you know, buy British meat,
28:25
Speaker 3: you know, search it out, seek it out. It is
28:28
Speaker 3: a higher quality and you know, and especially if you're
28:32
Speaker 3: getting it directly from from farms, you know exactly where
28:35
Speaker 3: it's coming from. A lot of them will actually let
28:38
Speaker 3: you know, people have a look around the farm and
28:39
Speaker 3: see how how the cows have you know, produced, and
28:43
Speaker 3: how they're living and the welfare that they have got,
28:47
Speaker 3: and so you know, we need to support them. They
28:49
Speaker 3: need to keep going as well.
28:51
Speaker 2: We really do.
28:52
Speaker 1: And I would really like to put out a message
28:54
Speaker 1: to anybody that's watching farmers thats please reach out to Roger.
29:01
Speaker 1: If you don't know what the plan is and you
29:03
Speaker 1: haven't got the time to do the research and gain
29:07
Speaker 1: the amount of amazing knowledge that Roger's got, then please
29:11
Speaker 1: reach out to Roger. Because I know that Roger goes
29:14
Speaker 1: and talks to groups and he's desperately trying to get
29:18
Speaker 1: this message out and we all need to work together.
29:21
Speaker 1: Before I swerve on to really the reason that we're
29:26
Speaker 1: talking today, which goes back to our phone call and
29:30
Speaker 1: your concerns, just a couple more questions. How do you
29:33
Speaker 1: see animals in fifteen minute cities? Because as we've just said,
29:37
Speaker 1: you know, people are wanting to get away from cities,
29:40
Speaker 1: to get into rural areas, to be near farms, to
29:43
Speaker 1: grow their own produce, and to go back to the
29:46
Speaker 1: land themselves. So will we have animals at all in
29:50
Speaker 1: fifteen minute cities?
29:52
Speaker 3: I don't know, is the honest answer to that, Debbie.
29:55
Speaker 3: I don't think they've actually sort of set out within
29:58
Speaker 3: their different rage genes for and visions for fifteen minute cities.
30:04
Speaker 3: I don't think they mentioned pets because they would probably
30:06
Speaker 3: know that the so many of us have a pets,
30:09
Speaker 3: so we'd love having our dogs or our cats or
30:12
Speaker 3: other animals as pets. That if they suddenly started saying, oh,
30:17
Speaker 3: you know, by the way, you're sharing your flat and
30:20
Speaker 3: and you know you'll you'll have it for twelve hours
30:24
Speaker 3: of the day and then you go to work, and
30:26
Speaker 3: then someone else will come and have it for the
30:28
Speaker 3: other twelve hours of the night, you know. And there's
30:31
Speaker 3: been as there was a series on TV, some sort
30:35
Speaker 3: of drama wasn't there based on that whole idea. So
30:38
Speaker 3: that's sort of seeding that idea that you know, you'll
30:41
Speaker 3: learn nothing everything will be shared. And obviously if you're
30:46
Speaker 3: in a situation like that, it's difficult to see how
30:49
Speaker 3: pets would fit in unless you had, you know, unless
30:52
Speaker 3: the pet was shared as well. But you know, people
30:55
Speaker 3: people love their own animals, and not everybody would have
30:57
Speaker 3: the same want the same choices. It's far from ideals
31:01
Speaker 3: so I really don't see how within the fifteen minute
31:08
Speaker 3: cities they envisage pets really fitting in. But no one's
31:13
Speaker 3: really asked a question other than what we're discussing here.
31:17
Speaker 3: It's the first time I think I've heard anybody discuss
31:19
Speaker 3: that whole idea of what might happen to pets in
31:22
Speaker 3: the fifteen minute city scenario. And people, certainly, you know
31:26
Speaker 3: UK people, we love our animals, and the idea that
31:30
Speaker 3: we might be banned from owning pets or or the
31:37
Speaker 3: situation just isn't possible. You know a lot of people
31:42
Speaker 3: would would perhaps get up in arms over that more
31:44
Speaker 3: than they do seem to want to worry about themselves.
31:48
Speaker 1: When you say that about no pets in fifteen minute cities,
31:52
Speaker 1: it makes perfect sense because if I think about the
31:54
Speaker 1: existing cities that we have now that we're all living
31:57
Speaker 1: in now, I was talking to a neighbor only the
32:00
Speaker 1: other day and I was saying, we haven't had in
32:03
Speaker 1: this country for I don't know when it was wiped out,
32:07
Speaker 1: but pest control where the local authority were.
32:11
Speaker 2: You know, you'd have your rat catcher and you could.
32:14
Speaker 1: Just call the council and they would turn up for
32:17
Speaker 1: a small fee and they would get rid of whatever
32:19
Speaker 1: pest it. We don't have that, and we currently have
32:22
Speaker 1: more rats on the planet than we do humans. So
32:26
Speaker 1: whilst we're not allowing domestic pets that we all love
32:30
Speaker 1: and look after, and if everybody's the same as me,
32:35
Speaker 1: our pets are king and Queen in the house, and
32:39
Speaker 1: yet we let pests and rats and rodents just go
32:43
Speaker 1: unpoliced completely. That's just an observation because we don't have
32:47
Speaker 1: any pest control at the moment and haven't done for
32:50
Speaker 1: a long time. But that kind of brings me on.
32:56
Speaker 1: It's going to bring me on to the second part
32:58
Speaker 1: of what we're going to discuss. Yes, and it's to
33:01
Speaker 1: set the scene, right. It's just to set the scene
33:05
Speaker 1: because when you said it the other day on the phone, Roger,
33:10
Speaker 1: I hadn't actually thought about it, and now I am
33:13
Speaker 1: because as you know, my life is surrounded by sewage
33:15
Speaker 1: because I'm a sewer flood victim and you see slurry
33:20
Speaker 1: trucks driving around, But do we give any consideration to
33:24
Speaker 1: what slurry is and what we're putting on our fields?
33:28
Speaker 1: So before I go any further, because you know where
33:30
Speaker 1: I'm going with this, can you just describe to people
33:34
Speaker 1: what slurry is.
33:37
Speaker 3: Well to put a lot too blunter a turn on.
33:41
Speaker 3: It's just processed shit. And unfortunately, sort of in the
33:46
Speaker 3: old you know, sort of in the old days, the
33:49
Speaker 3: farmers obviously were spreading their farmy alveneure on the fields
33:54
Speaker 3: as fertilizer. With the increase in human population in the
34:00
Speaker 3: UK and the way so slurry human human extrement is
34:06
Speaker 3: being being processed, it is now also being used as
34:10
Speaker 3: sort of sort of far fertilizer on fields. And I think,
34:14
Speaker 3: you know, there's a there's a real potential hazard to
34:17
Speaker 3: doing that because obviously pathogens. We we've got our gut
34:22
Speaker 3: micro microbiome, which obviously has got good bacteria and not
34:28
Speaker 3: so good bacteria and viruses and things in there as well.
34:32
Speaker 3: And I'm sure we're the best will in the world.
34:35
Speaker 3: Even when it's processed, you know, what's being spread on
34:38
Speaker 3: the field will potentially have that ability for you know,
34:44
Speaker 3: ton to can still have things that shouldn't be there
34:48
Speaker 3: and could potentially get into the soil and potentially into
34:51
Speaker 3: our crops. And I know from past conversations one of
34:55
Speaker 3: the big risks of that is actually Prion's because they
34:59
Speaker 3: aren't easily dealt with. They can go into the soil,
35:03
Speaker 3: and the latest research shows that roots of plants can
35:06
Speaker 3: actually uptake prions and redistribute them to the leaves. So
35:12
Speaker 3: if those people who are plant based in their diet
35:16
Speaker 3: think that they have got no risk of getting prion
35:19
Speaker 3: diseases because they don't eat animals, think again. And we
35:25
Speaker 3: see this happening in the USA, especially with chronic wasting
35:29
Speaker 3: disease in deer, which is spreading hugely, and in deer.
35:34
Speaker 3: They've talked about horizontal transmission in deer, so from one
35:38
Speaker 3: deer to another. I wonder whether that how much that
35:42
Speaker 3: actually happens. I suspect it is more likely that deer
35:47
Speaker 3: in a little mini herd will obviously all be in
35:52
Speaker 3: the same area. And so if prions are being excreted
35:57
Speaker 3: in the deer dung and then that's going into the soil,
36:01
Speaker 3: and then the plants are uptaking it, and then the
36:03
Speaker 3: deer are eating the plants, I suspect that might be
36:05
Speaker 3: the route by which the transmission is happening horizontally. But
36:12
Speaker 3: obviously the risk there and the warning for us is
36:15
Speaker 3: that be careful what you spread on your fields. And
36:20
Speaker 3: as we worry about how we might be inducing prial
36:26
Speaker 3: diseases in animals in the future. If we start introducing
36:30
Speaker 3: m R and A products into the very side of work,
36:35
Speaker 3: then we know that they can be prinogenic. And it's
36:40
Speaker 3: not difficult to see that if if we're doing pronogenic
36:45
Speaker 3: products to our farm animals in significantly large volumes, just
36:51
Speaker 3: the number of animals involved will mean at some point
36:54
Speaker 3: in the future there will be bryals being produced and
36:57
Speaker 3: if they get if that vices is then go and
37:00
Speaker 3: slurry is going onto the field, then we risk it
37:03
Speaker 3: going into our human food chain. So there's all sorts
37:07
Speaker 3: of dangers of you know, what we see as progress,
37:13
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm not always sure it is.
37:16
Speaker 1: For viewers that don't know and may not understand prions,
37:22
Speaker 1: Roger and we've talked about it many times before, and
37:24
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen our previous interviews, then do go
37:27
Speaker 1: back and to look at them. But for people that
37:29
Speaker 1: don't know, can you just very briefly and very simply
37:34
Speaker 1: explain prions and also the relationship between we've all heard,
37:39
Speaker 1: or most of us have heard of mad cow disease
37:42
Speaker 1: or kroutzweled Jakob disease, and most of us have heard
37:46
Speaker 1: of dementia, and many of us get confused. But there's
37:51
Speaker 1: a tie up with all of those things, isn't there?
37:54
Speaker 1: Can you explain very simply to our viewers what prions
37:58
Speaker 1: are and how this affects those diseases in animals and
38:02
Speaker 1: humans that you've just mentioned for people that may not know,
38:06
Speaker 1: and also actually, while I'm while I'm at it, horizontal
38:10
Speaker 1: and vertical, they may not understand that too.
38:13
Speaker 3: Okay, Yes, So basically PRIs are infectious proteins, so they're transmissible,
38:22
Speaker 3: and there's a whole class of diseases called transmissible and
38:26
Speaker 3: spongy form and kephilopathies, of which kreutzel yakorb is the
38:30
Speaker 3: human version, Mad cow disease BS is the cattle version,
38:35
Speaker 3: scrapy is the sheep version. And what they discovered, or
38:41
Speaker 3: what we originally thought, was that just by eating infected
38:44
Speaker 3: beef back in the nineteen nineties, it was discovered in
38:47
Speaker 3: cattle then mad cow disease, that eating that infected beef
38:52
Speaker 3: could could effectively infect people. But originally it was thought
39:00
Speaker 3: that it was just transmitted through the nervous tissue because
39:02
Speaker 3: it affects the brain. Hence this in cathhalopathy part of
39:06
Speaker 3: the name, but actually they've discovered that the prions will
39:09
Speaker 3: go into the meat as well, so all aspects of it.
39:13
Speaker 3: So basically, we've got a protein in our body which
39:15
Speaker 3: has got a certain folding if you like, a certain
39:19
Speaker 3: physical structure, and it can change in structure and it
39:28
Speaker 3: forms a bit like a crystal, you know, if you
39:31
Speaker 3: put a crystal, have a crystal in a salt, strong
39:33
Speaker 3: solution that the crystal grows, so a bit like if
39:36
Speaker 3: once you get a prion in the body, it causes
39:40
Speaker 3: these proteins to fold in another way, which causes the
39:43
Speaker 3: proteins around them to fold the same weight and form
39:48
Speaker 3: these sort of plaques if you like, which cause disease,
39:55
Speaker 3: neurological diseases, so you know it. And horizontal spread is
40:01
Speaker 3: if something goes from peer to peer, so within a
40:04
Speaker 3: herd it pass, it would pass for a long horizontal
40:10
Speaker 3: vertical spread is if it goes between generations. So that's
40:16
Speaker 3: basically the very brief overview, very simplified overview of Bryon's so,
40:24
Speaker 3: but it can happen to other proteins as well, like
40:26
Speaker 3: amyloid is another protein which you get amyloidosis, which is
40:30
Speaker 3: sort of again a misfolding of proteins, and we know
40:34
Speaker 3: that the jabs caused some of that as well.
40:37
Speaker 1: And of course you mentioned sponge form and capilopathy there,
40:42
Speaker 1: and the spongy form. I'll just say to our listeners
40:45
Speaker 1: who may not be aware, I know that some of
40:47
Speaker 1: you will, so apologies to those of you that are.
40:50
Speaker 1: But the sponge form comes from in humans where the
40:53
Speaker 1: brain looks like it resembles a sponge, so it actually
40:56
Speaker 1: gets holes in it, and therefore people get very confused
41:02
Speaker 1: and it can often be misdiagnosed, I guess for dementia
41:06
Speaker 1: or what I've certainly heard, and I've coined the phrase
41:10
Speaker 1: turbo dementia because I'm hearing from a lot of doctors
41:14
Speaker 1: who have had patients with Alzheimer's or dementia for years
41:20
Speaker 1: and years and years, and all of a sudden they've
41:21
Speaker 1: deteriorated very quickly and have died much sooner than was expected.
41:27
Speaker 1: So we also mustn't forget that Neil Ferguson, Professor Neil
41:32
Speaker 1: Ferguson Imperial who did the modeling incorrectly for mad cow disease.
41:41
Speaker 2: He modeled for covid am I right in that Roger.
41:44
Speaker 3: Yes, he did. Yeah, he predicted that there would be
41:47
Speaker 3: a lot a couple of hundred thousand deaths from from
41:51
Speaker 3: BSE in people going to neuvariant CJD, but thankfully it
41:57
Speaker 3: didn't happen in that way. Yeah, And problems are very difficult.
42:03
Speaker 3: They can't be denatured by heat or anything like that
42:06
Speaker 3: or so they're very difficult to get rid of once
42:10
Speaker 3: they've been established. So, you know, that's what's so concerning
42:13
Speaker 3: to me. When I did my open letter of concern
42:16
Speaker 3: to the Very Medicines Directive about the potential use of
42:21
Speaker 3: mr and A vaccines. You know they're not vaccines, but
42:25
Speaker 3: will you know mRNA jabs in animals. I was concerned
42:30
Speaker 3: that if they got used in the food chain that
42:32
Speaker 3: they could be priorogenic and could cause these start causing
42:36
Speaker 3: these problems. And so yeah, I've sort of been trying
42:39
Speaker 3: to keep up to date and keep on top of
42:41
Speaker 3: that current situation.
42:44
Speaker 1: What is the current situation at the moment, Roger with
42:46
Speaker 1: mRNA in animals. I know everybody's because we're all you know,
42:50
Speaker 1: many people that are watching are quite cautious now about
42:54
Speaker 1: seeking advice from the NHS or seeking advice from a
42:57
Speaker 1: doctor and now more people are even more cautious about
43:01
Speaker 1: what they're eating. Quite rightly, but people are worried. So
43:07
Speaker 1: what is the situation? Are animals, especially livestock ones in
43:11
Speaker 1: the food chain, are any of them getting mRNA or
43:15
Speaker 1: is there more stuff to roll out yet?
43:18
Speaker 3: Certainly in the UK we haven't got mRNA in being
43:21
Speaker 3: used in the venory field at all here in the UK.
43:24
Speaker 3: Yet it has already been in use in the USA
43:29
Speaker 3: for pigs since twenty and eighteen, and actually this year
43:34
Speaker 3: later earlier this year, starting in June, they started using
43:39
Speaker 3: or rolling out mRNA jabs in pets in certain countries.
43:47
Speaker 3: So it started off with a well they're calling them
43:51
Speaker 3: RNA particle vaccines, so they're trying to hide the fact
43:56
Speaker 3: that they are an mRNA jab. But they were being
44:01
Speaker 3: rolled out for rabies in Canada, and there was also
44:06
Speaker 3: a dog influenza mRNA product RNA particle product rolled out
44:14
Speaker 3: in USA, Mexico, Chile and the Philippines. And then there
44:20
Speaker 3: was an announcement in September this year that there was
44:23
Speaker 3: an fel V feline leukemia virus MRN a particle vaccine
44:30
Speaker 3: for cats, and they're all being rolled out by a
44:33
Speaker 3: company called Nobbyvack, and they're called nobby Back NXT vaccines.
44:38
Speaker 3: So nobbivac have actually been around for a long time
44:41
Speaker 3: and a lot of the conventional vaccines are Nobbivack for viruses.
44:45
Speaker 3: So just because you see nobbi back on your on
44:47
Speaker 3: your pet passport or vaccination schedule or whatever, it doesn't
44:52
Speaker 3: necessarily mean that they've had an m R and a product.
44:55
Speaker 3: It's you know, they aren't widespread yet. There are only
44:58
Speaker 3: these certain n XT products which have got this RNA
45:04
Speaker 3: particle technology as they're calling it, within it. But I
45:09
Speaker 3: did a freedom of information to the VMD relatively recently
45:13
Speaker 3: to find out what the current state of play is
45:17
Speaker 3: and what they could tell me was that there aren't
45:19
Speaker 3: any trials ongoing at the moment in the UK. There
45:22
Speaker 3: aren't any products licensed in the UK at the moment.
45:25
Speaker 3: What they couldn't tell me, obviously, because I suppose it's
45:28
Speaker 3: commercially sensitive, is what is in the pipeline. And we
45:33
Speaker 3: have to consider that if merk MSD, who have produced
45:38
Speaker 3: these rabis canine influenza and FeLV for cats in the
45:46
Speaker 3: States and elsewhere, you know, they're not going to want
45:51
Speaker 3: to roll them out in Europe and the UK and
45:54
Speaker 3: all around the world. So we need to keep our
45:57
Speaker 3: eyes and ears to the ground certainly on that front.
46:04
Speaker 3: You know, my freedom of information is good, but it
46:08
Speaker 3: only it doesn't last very long. You know, it could
46:11
Speaker 3: be out of date in a month's time. So you know,
46:14
Speaker 3: we've just got to keep our ears to the ground
46:17
Speaker 3: and see what's going on.
46:19
Speaker 1: And i'd like to reisterrate that actually to everybody if
46:21
Speaker 1: you didn't catch it first time around. What Roger said
46:24
Speaker 1: there was extremely valuable I think for everyone in the
46:27
Speaker 1: fact that we know mRNA as mRNA, right, but clearly
46:32
Speaker 1: it would seem that in the animal world they've renamed
46:36
Speaker 1: it RNA particle vaccines. So I think it's very important
46:42
Speaker 1: that people are aware of that difference in language and
46:47
Speaker 1: know what to look out for and know what to
46:49
Speaker 1: ask about. So I think that's extremely valuable.
46:52
Speaker 2: So thank you for that.
46:54
Speaker 1: And I'm going to bring us to the bombshell now
46:56
Speaker 1: because you rang me the other day and you said, Debbie,
47:01
Speaker 1: I'm worried about something, and you know, all around us
47:04
Speaker 1: we're seeing these stories of bird flu av and flu
47:08
Speaker 1: transmission to human zoonosis, which is the transmission of a
47:14
Speaker 1: virus or illness from animal to human. But we've also
47:20
Speaker 1: talked about reverse zunosis as well, which is the other
47:23
Speaker 1: way around. And in these days of bird flu, you
47:29
Speaker 1: suddenly thought and talked about PCR tests, didn't you, Roger,
47:35
Speaker 1: And you wrote an FOI and you've got a little
47:38
Speaker 1: bit to say about this. So I'm going to hand
47:40
Speaker 1: over to you to tell to tell everyone what you've
47:43
Speaker 1: been doing, what you've been finding out, and what the
47:47
Speaker 1: possible repercussions could be and the consequences. So over to
47:51
Speaker 1: you PC artists.
47:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, PCR, I mean nobody you'd really heard of them,
47:58
Speaker 3: although they've been around for a long while, I suppose
48:00
Speaker 3: until COVID came along and we sort of Professor Fenton
48:07
Speaker 3: and a few others talked about false positives and things
48:11
Speaker 3: like that, and we sort of knew that they weren't
48:15
Speaker 3: necessarily as reliable as they were being made out to be,
48:18
Speaker 3: especially with PCI. What you do is you're cycling. You're
48:24
Speaker 3: amplifying at each cycle amount of particle that you're trying
48:29
Speaker 3: to find up, so that you know, two becomes before
48:33
Speaker 3: becomes eight, becomes sixteen, becomes thirty, two becomes sixty four
48:36
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty eight and keeps on going, and so
48:42
Speaker 3: very soon after you've done a relatively short number of cycles,
48:45
Speaker 3: you've massively amplified what is there. And so there was
48:50
Speaker 3: a paper I think published basically said if you cycle
48:53
Speaker 3: more than twenty three times, then it means in order
48:58
Speaker 3: to find something, to detect something, it means what was
49:01
Speaker 3: there in an original sample? Wasn't there in sufficient quantities
49:05
Speaker 3: to be considered really infectious in the clinical situation. And
49:09
Speaker 3: we also knew that Carrie Mulis, who developed the PCR
49:15
Speaker 3: test and got the Nobel Price for doing so, he'd
49:17
Speaker 3: said you shouldn't be using PCR tests in a clinical situation.
49:23
Speaker 3: But it wasn't actually until I wrote an article for
49:27
Speaker 3: my substack, because I'm on substack as natural veat, and
49:30
Speaker 3: I did an article on PCR tests, and the penny
49:35
Speaker 3: suddenly dropped as to why carry Malice had said you
49:39
Speaker 3: shouldn't be using PCR tests in a clinical situation. And
49:44
Speaker 3: basically he developed PCR because he was doing sort of
49:50
Speaker 3: gene editing and genetic looking at mutations and things, and
49:56
Speaker 3: so he needed to be able to detect in his
50:00
Speaker 3: post treatment example, whe whether what he'd been trying to
50:05
Speaker 3: introduce had actually been successful or not. And so PCR
50:09
Speaker 3: is really developed to detect these relatively short strands of
50:14
Speaker 3: nucleic acid, So about twenty twenty spases long, which isn't
50:19
Speaker 3: very very much in the grand scale of how long
50:22
Speaker 3: our genes are or how much nuclear with acid material
50:26
Speaker 3: there are in envirus as and bacteria and things, And
50:31
Speaker 3: so he was using it to distinguish between two known
50:37
Speaker 3: strands effectively. So he had a finite an equals to
50:43
Speaker 3: possibility of, you know, as to what there could be
50:47
Speaker 3: in his test tube, which is a very different situation
50:51
Speaker 3: when you've got a microbiome that has got millions and
50:55
Speaker 3: billions of bacteria viruses throughout our on our skin, in
51:01
Speaker 3: our gut, in our ears, you know, every orifice that
51:05
Speaker 3: we have will have all these thout say billions of
51:12
Speaker 3: microbiome in there. And so to use a PCR test
51:19
Speaker 3: on a swab, the chances of finding that sequence of
51:24
Speaker 3: relatively short sequence of only twenty bass is quite highly probable,
51:30
Speaker 3: and so you end up in a situation where organisms
51:35
Speaker 3: are being misidentified based on a PCR test. So I
51:40
Speaker 3: was concerned, obviously, we as you say, when we started
51:44
Speaker 3: hearing about avian flu and sort of lockdowns and the culls,
51:48
Speaker 3: and then there's talk of other potential notifiable diseases around
51:55
Speaker 3: the countryside. And also with my background worry about as
51:59
Speaker 3: we spoke at the ginning about what what is what
52:02
Speaker 3: is in the pipeline for farming, I was concerned about
52:07
Speaker 3: how PCR tests might be being used in vecnory medicine.
52:11
Speaker 3: So I contacted the Vectory Medicine Directive, who are the
52:15
Speaker 3: authorization regulating body for venory medicines and products in the UK,
52:21
Speaker 3: and I asked them, how do you justify having authorized
52:26
Speaker 3: PCR testing in for clinical use on the basis that
52:32
Speaker 3: carrying malis said it shouldn't be done for these reasons
52:36
Speaker 3: and the risk of false positives is very high, and
52:42
Speaker 3: how how are you how are you using PCR tests
52:45
Speaker 3: to to make sure that those false positives don't manifest
52:50
Speaker 3: and the clinical decisions and important decisions in terms of
52:53
Speaker 3: farm lockdown and potentially cull orders aren't going to be
52:59
Speaker 3: based on something that's high in the sky. And I
53:04
Speaker 3: was absolutely gobsmacked to get an email back saying, oh,
53:09
Speaker 3: we don't authorize them and not regulated and it's like,
53:13
Speaker 3: hang on a minute, this is a medical instrument that's
53:17
Speaker 3: been used for a diagnostic situation. And I think every VET,
53:24
Speaker 3: probably in the UK, anybody who's anybody's using the PCR
53:28
Speaker 3: tests probably automatically assumes, like I did, that there was
53:34
Speaker 3: some sort of check and balance on these tests, a
53:37
Speaker 3: to make sure that they were what they said in
53:40
Speaker 3: the TIN, and that there was a sort of knowledge
53:44
Speaker 3: and understanding of what the risk of false positives and
53:48
Speaker 3: negatives are from them as well, and that they were
53:54
Speaker 3: then overseen and checked that and regulated and authorized and
53:59
Speaker 3: all the rest of it. So I don't think probably
54:03
Speaker 3: any event in the UK didn't realize that that hadn't occurred,
54:08
Speaker 3: and they suggested suggested that I contact the PCR test manufacturers. Well,
54:14
Speaker 3: we know they aren't. You know, we know Farmer is
54:18
Speaker 3: the biggest criminal group in the world. They've had the
54:22
Speaker 3: highest fines and you know, had the highest harms to
54:27
Speaker 3: people and deliberately ignored in the past. You know what
54:34
Speaker 3: the level of trust unfortunately, that that's been generated as
54:38
Speaker 3: a result of their past history, you know, is going
54:43
Speaker 3: to be extended to to the sort of medical instruments
54:46
Speaker 3: in terms of PCR tests and everything else as well.
54:49
Speaker 3: So asking asking the manufacturer, I didn't feel was a
54:55
Speaker 3: the right thing that I should have to do and
54:58
Speaker 3: be necessarily trust that that work had been done necessarily either.
55:05
Speaker 3: And so it does sort of beg the question as
55:08
Speaker 3: to how PCR tests are being used in clinical situations,
55:14
Speaker 3: especially on farms. And I understand that obviously, if there
55:19
Speaker 3: is a concern over the potential presence of a disease
55:25
Speaker 3: such as even influenza, that they want a quick result,
55:30
Speaker 3: and obviously a PCR test will give a relatively quick result.
55:34
Speaker 3: But again I don't know what the protocols are for
55:38
Speaker 3: doing those PCR tests as to whether they are how
55:42
Speaker 3: many cycles they're being put through, And as far as
55:47
Speaker 3: I'm concerned, a PCR test could only be considered part
55:52
Speaker 3: of the information necessary in order to make such a decision,
55:57
Speaker 3: because ideally the risk kind of of false positives is
56:02
Speaker 3: such that there's some sort of isolation and identification process
56:08
Speaker 3: going alongside in parallel, then how do you know whether
56:14
Speaker 3: that PCR test is positive or no true positive or
56:18
Speaker 3: false positive. So that was my sort of big, big
56:23
Speaker 3: concern is that then you know, if if PCR tests
56:26
Speaker 3: are going to be used on a wide scale use,
56:30
Speaker 3: you know, assuming there was some big outbreak of of
56:35
Speaker 3: Avian flu, and they you know obviously that we had
56:37
Speaker 3: scare mongering back in back in the summer of of
56:42
Speaker 3: it being transmissible to cows and then being in milk
56:46
Speaker 3: and things like that. So so it wasn't clear what
56:53
Speaker 3: the how the PCR test might be being used and
56:56
Speaker 3: therefore what the farmers might be being asked to subject
56:58
Speaker 3: their cows to in terms of testing with possible major
57:03
Speaker 3: implications based on that result. And if it was just
57:07
Speaker 3: being based on PCR and there was no proper isolation
57:12
Speaker 3: and identification going on, then you could have potentially, you know,
57:16
Speaker 3: hull herd's being culled without you know, without without good
57:22
Speaker 3: scientific basis. And the trouble with with isolation and identifications
57:29
Speaker 3: it takes time, and of course, if it if it
57:33
Speaker 3: takes four or five days for identification isolation to to
57:40
Speaker 3: actually get a result, you know, the DEPHRA would argue
57:45
Speaker 3: that that's too long to have waited. So so I
57:48
Speaker 3: can sort of see a potential situation where a PCR
57:51
Speaker 3: test is used initially and if it comes back positive,
57:55
Speaker 3: a farm is perhaps given a lockdown, but you would
57:58
Speaker 3: hope no cul is is put order is put in
58:02
Speaker 3: place until at least an isolation and identification in a
58:06
Speaker 3: way that doesn't use pc R has been done to
58:11
Speaker 3: actually make sure that that is the real situation. So
58:16
Speaker 3: the sort of the there's there's a lot of concern
58:21
Speaker 3: and not a lot of clarification, I'm afraid, but my
58:24
Speaker 3: concerns haven't been met, they haven't been really dealt with.
58:29
Speaker 3: And the v m D passed my questions onto the
58:34
Speaker 3: A p h A, and ive also chased them up
58:38
Speaker 3: as well to say, you know, what is what is
58:40
Speaker 3: the current situation, how how are PCR tests being used
58:45
Speaker 3: on the on the you know, within these notifiable disease situations,
58:50
Speaker 3: and what is what is your position in guaranteeing that
58:54
Speaker 3: you know, a col order or even a lockdown order
58:57
Speaker 3: can have quite significant financial implutycations for farms. You know,
59:02
Speaker 3: it's it makes a bit, it makes a big difference.
59:05
Speaker 3: So you know, what is what is what? What is
59:08
Speaker 3: that protocol in place? So they and we're still waiting
59:11
Speaker 3: for them to get back to me on that. And
59:14
Speaker 3: what people don't necessarily realize is farmers will get penalized
59:19
Speaker 3: if their animals are put on lockdown and they say
59:22
Speaker 3: they you know, it's a pig farm for argument's sake,
59:24
Speaker 3: and they can't sell send their pigs at the right
59:28
Speaker 3: time to market for slaughter, then if they have to wait,
59:32
Speaker 3: and the pigs obviously will carry on being fed and
59:35
Speaker 3: carry on growing, and they'll carry on putting too much
59:37
Speaker 3: fat the temple what's regarded as too much fat down
59:42
Speaker 3: you know, on the on the body composition, then the
59:44
Speaker 3: farmers will actually get penalized for that, for submitting pigs
59:49
Speaker 3: that aren't of the right quality, which is ridiculous because
59:54
Speaker 3: if they've been put on on a lockdown order, and
59:56
Speaker 3: this actually happened during COVID, where you know, farmer penalized
1:00:01
Speaker 3: for submitting animals even everything had been locked down that
1:00:05
Speaker 3: were outside of accepted parameters for the carcasses. So you
1:00:11
Speaker 3: know that there are huge implications for farmers in terms
1:00:15
Speaker 3: of making sure that the testing that might have some
1:00:18
Speaker 3: implification implications for movement, and also potentially for cul that
1:00:24
Speaker 3: those tests are as accurate as they possibly can be.
1:00:27
Speaker 1: And PCR is not that I think what you've just
1:00:31
Speaker 1: said there, Roger is an absolute bombshell, quite honestly, and
1:00:37
Speaker 1: I have to sort of say that what if I mean,
1:00:39
Speaker 1: it really is a what if now, I mean, you're
1:00:42
Speaker 1: saying that PCR tests are being used although they're not mandated.
1:00:47
Speaker 1: There's no process, there's no balances or checks or anything
1:00:51
Speaker 1: about them or on them. And what if, for example,
1:00:57
Speaker 1: and I know that a flock has been culled fairly
1:00:59
Speaker 1: recent for avian flu, and I'm keeping an eye on
1:01:04
Speaker 1: the clock, by the way, but I do think this
1:01:06
Speaker 1: deserves just an extra few minutes because it's so huge.
1:01:09
Speaker 1: Because what if, hypothetically a farmer calls the vets because
1:01:17
Speaker 1: he's got two, three, four, maybe poorly chickens, and the
1:01:22
Speaker 1: VET comes out with PCR tests. And what you're saying there,
1:01:28
Speaker 1: of course, is the alternative to a PCR test for
1:01:32
Speaker 1: people that don't know, is a culture is doing a
1:01:36
Speaker 1: test that might take three or four days. That's got
1:01:40
Speaker 1: to be incubated, it's got to be tested, it's got
1:01:43
Speaker 1: to be cultured in order to find out what the
1:01:46
Speaker 1: disease is. And of course, as you've said, Roger, that
1:01:48
Speaker 1: takes days, whereas a PCR test is quick. However, it's
1:01:53
Speaker 1: completely inaccurate. It wasn't designed to do this. And if
1:01:56
Speaker 1: vets are going into farms, by the way, how do
1:02:01
Speaker 1: you PCR test chicken.
1:02:03
Speaker 3: Well, they must be taking swabs, so and it may
1:02:07
Speaker 3: be if they you know, in that scenario, if they've
1:02:10
Speaker 3: got a flock of chickens and one or two of
1:02:12
Speaker 3: them have died, then then probably do a post mortem
1:02:14
Speaker 3: on them. So I would hope that there is a
1:02:17
Speaker 3: culture an identification process going alongside in parallel. But but
1:02:24
Speaker 3: I don't, you know, I would yeah, I would hope
1:02:28
Speaker 3: that there is, and I suspect that there is. But
1:02:32
Speaker 3: but obviously there is going to be a movement order
1:02:35
Speaker 3: slapped on that farm straight away if they do a PCs.
1:02:39
Speaker 3: PCR tests as an initial as an initial screen if
1:02:44
Speaker 3: you like. But even that has has has you know, applications,
1:02:49
Speaker 3: and I suppose you could argue if there wasn't a
1:02:51
Speaker 3: PCR test doing, they would just put a movement order
1:02:53
Speaker 3: or on them anyway until until an identification and isolation
1:02:57
Speaker 3: identification was properly carried out, so they would get they
1:03:01
Speaker 3: would get a movement order slot slapt on them anyway.
1:03:03
Speaker 3: So a PCR, I suppose, if it comes back negative,
1:03:07
Speaker 3: that could potentially give them an all clear, which is
1:03:13
Speaker 3: better than nothing. But even then we still don't know
1:03:17
Speaker 3: what what's the false negative risk of the PCR tests either.
1:03:21
Speaker 3: So it's it's not ideal from from anybody's point of view.
1:03:25
Speaker 3: And one hundred percent think that the vets don't realize.
1:03:29
Speaker 3: You know, they're given a test and it says PCR
1:03:32
Speaker 3: test or you know, or they're told that they can
1:03:34
Speaker 3: get a PCR test done on swabs for these diseases.
1:03:40
Speaker 3: They they trust because we've got to you know, what
1:03:44
Speaker 3: else are you going to do. You've got you've got
1:03:47
Speaker 3: to trust that that test does what it says on
1:03:49
Speaker 3: the tin. And unless you've been through some sort of
1:03:54
Speaker 3: scientific training in terms of laboratory research to fully understand
1:04:00
Speaker 3: and the PCR test. And it was only because I
1:04:04
Speaker 3: suddenly went into it in such depth in order to
1:04:06
Speaker 3: do my substact that it it sort of suddenly dawned
1:04:10
Speaker 3: on me that I actually hadn't fully Although I'd understood
1:04:15
Speaker 3: the hesitancy around PCR tests during COVID, I actually hadn't
1:04:18
Speaker 3: fully understood it. And and so that's I think, is
1:04:25
Speaker 3: just the clinical situation where you know, we you know,
1:04:29
Speaker 3: PCR tests aren't supposed to being used in clinical situations
1:04:34
Speaker 3: you know, and will be done. It might be a
1:04:37
Speaker 3: respiratory swabb or it might be done on a on
1:04:39
Speaker 3: a chickens cloaca. If it's you know, if it's you know,
1:04:44
Speaker 3: I've got diarrhea or something, then then you know, looking
1:04:48
Speaker 3: for for maybe other other diseases as well. So you know,
1:04:52
Speaker 3: I just wonder what's going on, and you know, and
1:04:56
Speaker 3: people also need to understand the PCR test, you know,
1:05:00
Speaker 3: because obviously what I'm saying for animals is equally equally
1:05:03
Speaker 3: applicable for people as well. Not that we're under risk
1:05:06
Speaker 3: of a color order, but obviously, you know, people, people,
1:05:12
Speaker 3: people are going to be potentially restricting themselves on the
1:05:15
Speaker 3: basis of the back of a PCR test without fully
1:05:18
Speaker 3: understanding that actually that if they haven't got the clinical
1:05:22
Speaker 3: disease symptoms, the chances of them being infectious and having
1:05:27
Speaker 3: that disease actually without knowing the false positive rate of
1:05:32
Speaker 3: the of the PCR test is is highly dubious. You know.
1:05:39
Speaker 3: As they're talking about this whole m R and a
1:05:41
Speaker 3: platform being something where you can then develop a vaccine
1:05:46
Speaker 3: very quickly, we can see potentially how if PCR tests
1:05:52
Speaker 3: are being used as they were during COVID to amplify
1:05:55
Speaker 3: and ramp up you know, the scare mongering and the
1:05:59
Speaker 3: warning over something. You know, it may we talk about
1:06:02
Speaker 3: it in terms of covid bid, it might be something
1:06:05
Speaker 3: completely different. You know, we know that they're developing an
1:06:08
Speaker 3: m r N, a vaccine for people for for nourovirus.
1:06:14
Speaker 3: So if you could, you can imagine a situa situation
1:06:18
Speaker 3: where any any person who had a bit of diarrhea
1:06:22
Speaker 3: suddenly got had a PCR test done on that sample
1:06:26
Speaker 3: and it suddenly came up nourovirus that they not that
1:06:30
Speaker 3: they need it or self limit in a couple of
1:06:32
Speaker 3: days anyway, but they will be used as leverage to
1:06:34
Speaker 3: encourage them or to make them have you know, the
1:06:39
Speaker 3: equivalent that the appropriate m r N h app So
1:06:42
Speaker 3: I think, you know, we we need to understand PCR
1:06:45
Speaker 3: testing and understand it it's limitations, because if we're not careful,
1:06:51
Speaker 3: it will be potentially be one of the leverages which
1:06:54
Speaker 3: will be used to push what we know they're trying
1:06:58
Speaker 3: to do, which is to really divert this whole m
1:07:01
Speaker 3: R and a platform across a whole myriad of different diseases.
1:07:05
Speaker 3: And although we're early days now and there's only a
1:07:08
Speaker 3: few of them on the market, we certainly know that
1:07:11
Speaker 3: there are others intended. And you know, the last UK
1:07:14
Speaker 3: government invested so much money in Maderna to produce so
1:07:19
Speaker 3: many you know, millions of pounds a year contract that
1:07:25
Speaker 3: you know they they will want to be using using
1:07:30
Speaker 3: using those jabs, and they want to position the UK
1:07:33
Speaker 3: as the head of the lead country in the whole
1:07:36
Speaker 3: m r n A platform. So you know, we we've
1:07:39
Speaker 3: got to be aware of how that pressure could be
1:07:42
Speaker 3: brought to bear on people and for themselves but also
1:07:46
Speaker 3: for their animals for using these products which we know
1:07:49
Speaker 3: actually as a whole platform is inherently unsafe.
1:07:53
Speaker 1: For all the vets and farmers out there, what do
1:07:59
Speaker 1: they do? I mean, if a vet walks through into
1:08:03
Speaker 1: your farm armed with a PCR test, does the farmer
1:08:09
Speaker 1: question it?
1:08:10
Speaker 2: Does the farmer agree to it?
1:08:12
Speaker 1: And similarly, if you're a vet and you're watching, should
1:08:17
Speaker 1: you be using a PCR test? What are the consequences
1:08:21
Speaker 1: of a false positive? Could that herd or could that
1:08:26
Speaker 1: flock be culled as a result of that one PCR test?
1:08:30
Speaker 1: I mean, these are incredibly important messages to farmers, what
1:08:35
Speaker 1: to all of us, but especially to farmers and to
1:08:38
Speaker 1: vets because potentially, and I'm just hypothetically saying this now,
1:08:43
Speaker 1: But potentially if farmers are listening and they go, well, actually,
1:08:46
Speaker 1: do you know what, we'd rather be put on a
1:08:49
Speaker 1: movement order and have a proper culture and know for
1:08:53
Speaker 1: sure what we're dealing with rather than rely on a
1:08:57
Speaker 1: fake or an in actual at tests that could potentially
1:09:03
Speaker 1: wipe out my whole flock or wipe out my whole herd.
1:09:07
Speaker 1: Could we get scenes in the future of farmers going
1:09:11
Speaker 1: to vets, Actually we don't want you coming onto our property.
1:09:13
Speaker 1: If DEFRA come down hard and say yes, you have
1:09:16
Speaker 1: to use pc RT tests and farmers decide no, well,
1:09:20
Speaker 1: we don't want to because they're not accurate and they're
1:09:22
Speaker 1: not effective. I mean, the farmers need to know this, right,
1:09:27
Speaker 1: So as they're doing their farmers protests and they're looking
1:09:30
Speaker 1: inheritance tax, they need to be look at the consequences
1:09:34
Speaker 1: of potentially something that may seem quite innocuous a pc
1:09:38
Speaker 1: R tests that they might not have considered, could have
1:09:42
Speaker 1: huge consequences. Have I surmised that correctly or do you
1:09:48
Speaker 1: want to add to that or correct me on anything there?
1:09:51
Speaker 3: Now? I think that's you know, those potential situations are
1:09:55
Speaker 3: very valid, and I would I would say to any
1:09:58
Speaker 3: vets out there, you know, ask the questions. You know,
1:10:01
Speaker 3: don't necessarily believe me, but ask a question. Ask the
1:10:05
Speaker 3: questions yourself. Now, look into the PCR test yourself. Make
1:10:09
Speaker 3: sure that you understand what it is, that it's that
1:10:13
Speaker 3: it's doing, how it works, how it could potentially produce
1:10:17
Speaker 3: false positives and false negatives, and recognize that if there
1:10:23
Speaker 3: is a high probability as I think there is, of
1:10:26
Speaker 3: producing a false positive, that it is only used in
1:10:30
Speaker 3: combination with isolation identification, and you know, be aware of
1:10:38
Speaker 3: other consequences of if PCR test is just being used
1:10:42
Speaker 3: on its own, you know, where is that potentially going
1:10:46
Speaker 3: to lead to in terms of the same movement orders
1:10:49
Speaker 3: or other restrictions or culls or whatever. And the farmers
1:10:54
Speaker 3: also need to be asking those questions of the vets
1:10:57
Speaker 3: as well and sort of saying to them, you know,
1:11:00
Speaker 3: if is that a PCR test that you're going to
1:11:03
Speaker 3: be doing. If the VET says ts, then they can say, well, okay,
1:11:06
Speaker 3: are we doing an isolation and identification in parallel with that?
1:11:11
Speaker 3: What's the different what are the time scales for those
1:11:14
Speaker 3: two different tests? And they might say, well, we'll get
1:11:17
Speaker 3: the PCR test back tomorrow, but we'll get the identification
1:11:21
Speaker 3: and isolation potentially back in in i know, four or
1:11:25
Speaker 3: five days time or whatever whatever it is. And the
1:11:29
Speaker 3: farmers needs to then ask the question, well, if your
1:11:31
Speaker 3: PCR test comes back positive, what restrictions are you going
1:11:35
Speaker 3: to put on my farm? What what implication is that
1:11:38
Speaker 3: going to have for my business? And you know, if
1:11:41
Speaker 3: they come back and say, oh, we're going to we
1:11:43
Speaker 3: would we would issue a coal notice straight away. Then
1:11:46
Speaker 3: farmer needs to say, well, hang on a minute, what
1:11:48
Speaker 3: if it's a false positive, because there's a potential here
1:11:51
Speaker 3: for it to be so because of how the PCR
1:11:54
Speaker 3: test works. So you know, I think there has to
1:11:58
Speaker 3: be everybody needs to question and what they're doing and
1:12:01
Speaker 3: what they're allowing to have done because that because they're
1:12:06
Speaker 3: you know, they need to understand what those implications are
1:12:09
Speaker 3: and what is the risk of of you know, false
1:12:13
Speaker 3: test results. And that's you know, that should be standard practice.
1:12:17
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm not trying to ask anybody to
1:12:20
Speaker 3: be doing anything that other than what they should naturally
1:12:22
Speaker 3: be doing anyway. You know, farmers obviously, especially you know,
1:12:29
Speaker 3: whether it's sort of dairy farm where we know the
1:12:31
Speaker 3: cows are there and on a much longer term basis
1:12:35
Speaker 3: than than than raising chickens for meat for example. You
1:12:39
Speaker 3: know that, you know, the farmers have have an affinity
1:12:43
Speaker 3: to those to those cows and those family lines that
1:12:45
Speaker 3: they've bred, but hours of of choosing into to breed
1:12:49
Speaker 3: those lines of cows and they won't want to risk,
1:12:54
Speaker 3: you know, a coal situation unless it's absolutely one hundred
1:12:59
Speaker 3: percent own cold necessary for whatever reason. And you know,
1:13:07
Speaker 3: those decisions can only and should only be being made
1:13:10
Speaker 3: when we've got really reliable tests that are being carried
1:13:15
Speaker 3: out in the way that they're supposed to be being
1:13:17
Speaker 3: carried out. And I should say a PC artists should
1:13:20
Speaker 3: only ever be used in combination with isolation and identification.
1:13:25
Speaker 1: If animals have voices, I think every single one of
1:13:29
Speaker 1: them that was listening to this interview would be screaming.
1:13:32
Speaker 2: We want Roger as our vet.
1:13:34
Speaker 1: Because on the column here we've met some amazing doctors
1:13:38
Speaker 1: and many of us have said, oh, if only you
1:13:40
Speaker 1: were just around the corner, if only you were our GP.
1:13:43
Speaker 1: And I think there are going to be many animals
1:13:45
Speaker 1: and many animal owners who are going, oh, we need
1:13:48
Speaker 1: to contact Roger, and all Roger's contact details will be
1:13:52
Speaker 1: in the article beneath this interview.
1:13:55
Speaker 2: But I really want to thank you Roger for joining the.
1:13:59
Speaker 1: Dots, for asking the questions, for questioning everything in order
1:14:06
Speaker 1: to bring this information to us, which I believe is crucial.
1:14:09
Speaker 1: So I make no apologies for this interview being a
1:14:12
Speaker 1: little bit longer than normal, because I think it's incredibly important.
1:14:17
Speaker 1: And if you are a vet, if you are a farmer,
1:14:19
Speaker 1: if you know anybody who's a vet or a farmer,
1:14:22
Speaker 1: and you like what the UK column are doing, we're
1:14:25
Speaker 1: doing a lot of work on agriculture. On one health
1:14:28
Speaker 1: antimicrobial resistance, which is another one maybe we'll come to
1:14:32
Speaker 1: next time, Roger, with regards to animal health, then please
1:14:36
Speaker 1: share our material, spread the word. We need your help,
1:14:41
Speaker 1: and Roger, just bless you and thank you, and it's
1:14:46
Speaker 1: over to you with our love and so many thanks
1:14:51
Speaker 1: because you've helped me personally with our animals as well.
1:14:55
Speaker 1: So if anybody out there has got an animal there
1:14:58
Speaker 1: isn't very well or you do need some OLDI alternative
1:15:00
Speaker 1: care for please contact Roger.
1:15:03
Speaker 2: He's your man. And with that, Roger is over to
1:15:06
Speaker 2: you for your last word.
1:15:07
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, Debbie, very kind words yeah, and
1:15:13
Speaker 3: I think I sort of want to finish on a
1:15:16
Speaker 3: point of hope. To be honest, you know, sort of
1:15:18
Speaker 3: what we're talking about can be quite heavy and you know,
1:15:22
Speaker 3: and maybe even depressing, and obviously we don't want to
1:15:26
Speaker 3: be depressed. We want we want to feel that there's hope.
1:15:30
Speaker 3: You know that that time will come. I am absolutely sure,
1:15:35
Speaker 3: you know, but we do need to be aware of
1:15:38
Speaker 3: what is happening. We do need to be aware of
1:15:40
Speaker 3: the gender so that we can see what's behind what's
1:15:45
Speaker 3: going on as well. So I think, you know, the
1:15:50
Speaker 3: important thing is there is light at the end of
1:15:52
Speaker 3: the tunnel. I think people are waking up to what's
1:15:55
Speaker 3: going on. And you know, the farmers are very much fired.
1:16:00
Speaker 3: And you know, we are going to get to a
1:16:03
Speaker 3: point where we're going to be back looking more at
1:16:06
Speaker 3: regenerative farming, I'm sure, and locally produced food. And you know,
1:16:10
Speaker 3: the farmers, I would say, hang in there, and everybody else,
1:16:15
Speaker 3: support your farmers, and you know, hang on to that
1:16:18
Speaker 3: that positive thing we've got. Obviously, Donald Trump was elected
1:16:24
Speaker 3: in the States. He's not there until the twentieth hopefully
1:16:27
Speaker 3: will survive that long, but you know, he with Robert
1:16:32
Speaker 3: Kennedy doing what he's going to do in the in
1:16:36
Speaker 3: the United States. I'm sure some of those waves that
1:16:39
Speaker 3: he are going he's going to start off over there,
1:16:41
Speaker 3: will ripple over here and it won't necessarily happen straight away,
1:16:46
Speaker 3: but it will happen. So we've just got to sit
1:16:50
Speaker 3: it out and you recognize that there are better times
1:16:54
Speaker 3: ahead and just hang on to that. And you know,
1:16:59
Speaker 3: we do need to be aware and support those who
1:17:03
Speaker 3: are doing good work and resist those who are doing
1:17:06
Speaker 3: evil