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Finding the Forge: Conversation (AKA the Scott Show) · Beyond the Sermon

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You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast the First
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Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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On our podcast, the goal is not just to share our sermons, but
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to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're learning and
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what God is doing in US and in our community.
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The conversation you're about to join was inspired by our Spring
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Mixtape 2025 non series sermon series.
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Rather than a series, this will be a collection of sermons based
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on what God is leading us to preach on this spring.
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You can find out more information about our church at
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fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for joining us for this
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conversation. What was the title of your
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sermon? Title of my sermon was Finding
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the Forge. Oh yeah.
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And I never actually brought it back around to like I probably
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should have. At the end of the server we have
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the podcast. Yeah, right.
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This is the common background. There it is.
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Yeah, no. We're looking for the forge that
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doesn't exist in Israel. Finding the forge.
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We had words or phrases different years that you'd
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shared. Yep, one of them being rest in
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2022. When did your family go on
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vacation? The long vacation was 23. 23
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Yeah, that's what I connected before you pulled up the Bible
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verses. You're like, and I'm not talking
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vacation. And then I went and looked over
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Angie and Karen. I was like, but he got the
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vacation just a year off. But we talked last week about
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the difference of like one off sermons and the preparation.
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Yeah, for that. So was the concept of forging
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the like impetus of where you were starting or was there
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something else and then you connected it back to the
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forging? It started with the idea of
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forging and like the that being my word for this year is kind of
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like a this is a good time to kind of share what God's been
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saying to me and where I feel like God is leading us even in
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the second-half of this year and and that kind of stuff.
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So originally thought I might start like base the sermon from
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that Malachi passage, which is one of the ones that, you know,
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God kind of led me to for this year.
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But then as I prayed about it, more found that passage about no
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blacksmiths in Israel and that kind of framed it in a different
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way for me. Yeah.
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Took it a little bit less from what God was saying to me
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individually and more to our congregation and just kind of
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the broader context. Yeah, you talked a lot,
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obviously because of forging, the blacksmithing and like the
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processes of all of those things.
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Did you just like YouTube? How is forging done, or how did
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you learn more about that world that you weren't as familiar
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with? Yeah, a little bit of research.
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I was reminded at some point somebody else that I kind of
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follow and listen to was talking about some of these things and
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kind of planted a bit of a seed for me.
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And so, yeah, and some of it was just random knowledge that it
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accumulated in my brain at some point and just pulling those
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things together. Yeah, so.
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I didn't do a super deep dive in blacksmithing though.
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Yeah, and and as you're going through and sharing, I guess
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we'll start with movies because that's been a theme lately with
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Lord of the Rings. I I referenced the books.
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Well, guess what happened when the movies most of what happens
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in the books. It's true.
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So I think that really helped me better connect and understand
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like the unity within diversity of a community.
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Because when you're talking like different creatures, it makes
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more like bold differentiations then maybe even different
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ethnicities, let alone different like social Eakin social groups
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or socio economic groups or different education levels.
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But when you have like different, completely different
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looking creatures coming together for the 1 mission, that
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was really helpful as we like look out into our pews and you
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know, we are not a monolith of people.
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We're not just carbon copies of like the Collingswood,
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Methodist, Christian or whatever you'd want to title it.
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And so how can we be? It's actually connects I thought
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we talked about last week with Alpha and stuff like that and
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being prepared for potential dynamic shifts within the
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congregation. How do you think we can prepare
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for that as individuals within this church?
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I think a big part of it is just practicing it and forcing what
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practicing diversity and leaning into it.
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And so that was like a big part of why for Sunday school last
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year, we chose to have one big Sunday school for everyone
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except the kids, right? Where we would come together and
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we'd have a little lesson and then literally we'd just number
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off however many groups we were going to have that week.
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And so you ended up with teenagers and young adults and
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middle-aged adults and older adults all talking in one small
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group about the concepts. Similarly, in our Practicing the
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Way course, we tended to try to divide people up, not just, you
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know, peers with peers, but across the different strata of
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demographics that we had. So that way it's just one more
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opportunity for people to get used to talking to the people
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maybe aren't just like them. Even if on some surface levels
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they do tend to look the same in their lives, It's still an
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attempt to lean into it, to practice it, to choose it.
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So that way, when some of the bigger differences come, maybe
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it doesn't feel quite so jarring.
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Yeah, yeah. And I think that intentional
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community, even within the community is important.
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And that's why I guess I'll announce it here is that we're
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we're seeking to have people host our college students
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throughout the summer for dinner and potentially lunch, depending
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on how their summer work schedules align.
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But I think that it's something so simple that anyone can do,
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because even if you're horrible at cooking, you can order a few
6:56
pizzas. Yeah, or you can hopefully boil
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spaghetti and throw a jar of sauce on.
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Or you could throw some store bought burgers and dogs on a
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grill like. I mean, in this economy, maybe
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not. Bubble burgers are getting up
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there. I'm sure they're going to be
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like $25 a box this summer. But you know, it's something
7:15
where our college students seem to want a place to gather and to
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have the body as a whole welcome them in and not have them feel
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like segregated out to like you do the young people stuff and
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we'll be the old people stuff. And when you'd like us to
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support through pairs, I'm fine financially, we'll come
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alongside you. But I think to be 1 body
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together and intentionally like in the home and making it
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personal, it's so important. And so if anyone listening would
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like to host our college students at some point this
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summer, I will. You're looking for people to
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host them for dinner every night of the summer.
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If I don't get me free food, I'm not opposed to it.
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Right now the goal is to have a weekly meeting and if I'm in the
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country or in town, I will be joining our college kids.
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So they're not all strangers that can make the connections
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and maybe even help stimulate the conversation a little bit
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with people. But then also they're they're
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simple. We get a board game, a movie,
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whatever it might be, and just a time to be worn.
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Hole in the backyard yard or. Yeah, bocci ball.
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Yeah, I love bocci ball. It's simple.
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Anyone, any age can play and if you don't have a yard and you're
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not opposed to breaking things in your house, we can play bocci
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ball indoors. Yeah.
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Sure, a couple dents in the floor which just create
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memories. So every time you feel the bump
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in your floor, you'll think of our wonderful college students.
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Yeah, growing up, my, my grandparents would have Memorial
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Day picnic, a 4th of July picnic and a Labor Day picnic every,
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just about every year. And, you know, there'd be
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extended family and extended family friends and all that kind
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of stuff that would come. And every time it seemed like
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every time after dinner, it eventually led to a bocce ball
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game where we would just kind of like, throw the little white
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ball and just keep going with it.
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And we just go around their house.
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Yeah. So like all the time.
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Yeah, my aunt and uncle are are super into it and it's one of
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like the two games my uncle will play.
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That and code names. There you go.
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And oh, crocodile, is that what it's called?
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I don't know that. One like the Canadian game, it's
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like wooden board and there's a little pegs and you're like
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flicking the little. They look like checkered discs
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and you're trying to get them as close to the center.
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Oh, that's a fun one. The only Canadian game I know is
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I'm curling. Racist.
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OK, there you say, like moose tipping or something.
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It's like for our Canadian audience, I don't want to get in
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trouble. They're stuck indoors because of
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the snow. So either go out and you do the
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curling because it's so snowy and icy, or you stay inside and
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play crocodile. There you go.
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But yeah, anyway, young adults, college students.
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Point We're going to keep going down this rabbit trail until it
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ends. It's, it's done college students
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this summer. I think that's a great
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opportunity for people to connect with them and take a
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step maybe outside of their comfort zone within the church
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community and to have a chance to engage with them and.
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Yeah, that's great. But let's bring it back to Sure,
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Jeremy. You're the one editing this
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podcast. Back to my sermon, which is
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really the most important thing of the week.
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Let's get back to Scott. We talk too much about our the
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next generation and, you know, part of our church.
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Let's get back to Scott. The Scott show.
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You might change this episode title to that.
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Oh, there we. Go.
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Oh wait, I have that power. I definitely can.
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I'll thank you after you do it. Because it has to be the Scotch
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show. He's even control of the title
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of the Scotch show. All right, but yeah, so you go
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back to your forging and right, yadda yadda.
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What was the anvil and what was the hammer?
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Explain the parts. In that analogy, blacksmith is
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God. The heat of the forge and the
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furnace. I did learn the difference
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between a forge and a furnace, that a forge is more open, a
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furnace closes in order to get higher, hotter temperatures,
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like if you were actually trying to purify.
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But the the fire is kind of like the the experiences we face in
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life. Like, I know most people have
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been through stuff and they're going through stuff and it's
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just kind of that heat that comes from living in this world.
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The. Peaks the greatest experiences.
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Well, no, I'm talking more about the, the hard things of life and
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the fire, the the sufferings of life.
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And so that's the fire, the water kind of compared to just
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the church itself being a place where people could come and
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experience a bit of relief from those fires.
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Sadly, I think a lot of times the Church has contributed to
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some of those fires in people's lives rather than being a place
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of relief and strengthening. So the calm fire rim stuff.
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Yeah, yeah. So but yeah, that water where
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the metal gets cooled either in the tempering phase or in the
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just kind of the the fixing of the shape.
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And then talked about the, the hammer kind of being biblical
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truth and the practices, the things that God uses to
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intentionally that we engage in intentionally that God uses to
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shape us and mold us. And I think it's important to to
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remember that those are things that even though we engage them,
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they're still in God's hands. They're how God works in our
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lives. It's not what we're
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accomplishing, it's what he's doing.
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And then said the anvil is kind of the the small intentional
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community that becomes kind of the the place where those hammer
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blows are actually made more effective in our shaping because
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because that's where we're working out what God's doing in
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our lives. Yeah, I think what was harder
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for me as you're going through that is like I, I joked fire
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brimstone. But like, you know, our logo
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currently still has a flame behind the cross.
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So like so used to like the represent the representation of
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like the Holy Spirit with fire and God's refining fire and then
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also like water, you know, the living water and all these
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things. So like trying to shift and get
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onto the imagery and and what you are proposing, one of the
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things you've mentioned is God like stocking the fire and maybe
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increasing some of the pain and suffering within this world in
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order to. What?
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Yeah, in order to bring us to the point where he can do what
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he needs to do in US. Right.
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The in blacksmithing, if, if the blacksmith isn't able to shape
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the metal into what he wants to, he'll stoke the fire, make it
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hotter so that the the metal gets softer and it gets more
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pliable and he can do what he needs to do with it.
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And I think God works in our lives that way.
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Not that he's necessarily causing all of the things that
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happen, especially the things that happen as a result of sin,
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but I think sometimes he'll take those things and kind of turn up
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the heat. So that way it drives us to him.
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Like it's like CS Lewis talks about pain being the megaphone
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that God uses to speak to us. Or if you look at scripture, you
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know, there are some drastic things that happen, like the
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exile. It was painful for the people of
15:27
Israel and, and they saw it as a very negative thing.
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They saw it as punishment, and it was because they had failed
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to live according to the way they knew God had called them
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into being. And so God used a very painful
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experience to reorient them to what he wanted to do and.
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Not even that. So we've gone with the youth
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kids, we've been studying through overarching story of
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scripture and we're in the exile Babylon, reading about Daniel
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and all that kind of stuff. But just this morning I was
16:06
watching one of my professors and someone asked the question
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about like the diaspora, because we're talking about world
16:13
missions and migration and how migration was necessary for
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Christianity to spread and get to.
16:20
Excuse. Me all over the world and all
16:23
this awesome information is providing.
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We were talking about the diaspora of like after the
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temple was destroyed and what, 8070, yeah, 7080 and that
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diaspora. But they were asking about the
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effect of the one by the Babylonians and how that
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affected Christianity. Sure.
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And hugely. He makes the point that when we
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read Acts and we read all of these new people that are
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leading in the faith and where they're from, they're from
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places that the Jews went to because of the Diaspora and they
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were able to then take the gospel out to that place.
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So says that the Diaspora because of the Babylonians ends
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up creating like the trails that the disciples after Jesus and an
17:18
axe spread out to and are able to follow to then go and preach
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to you know, they say go and preach certain ones were
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preaching first to the Jews. That's because the Jews weren't
17:29
all right there, right, right in Jerusalem and, and in that area,
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they had gone out because of the diaspora.
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And so God was able to use even something that was a punishment
17:41
for the people that weren't walking with him to then prepare
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the way for the gospel to spread out into the world.
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Yeah. And then similarly, even in
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Acts, it talks about like the persecution that got stirred up
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in Jerusalem against the Christians.
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And that was what spread them out to places like Antioch and
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Damascus. And so Paul was going to
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Damascus to arrest Christians who had fled there from
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Jerusalem. Yeah, because of his persecution
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and others like him. It's amazing to see God using
18:18
all these things and you know, people that are living it aren't
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seeing hundreds of years into the future and how this thing
18:26
that for them is the worst thing to happen in their generation
18:30
and yet God is able to use it and redeem it for his.
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Glory. Yeah, yeah, one of the early
18:36
church fathers coined the phrase that said the blood of the
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martyrs is the seed of the church.
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You know, it's it's often been through those times of
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persecution and suffering that God has brought the greatest
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moments of church growth and spiritual development.
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Yeah, and. That's what we're seeing now,
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Yeah. The church growth in Latin
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America, sub-Saharan Africa, Asia is off the charts.
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There's more Christians in Africa than any other continent
19:10
currently. But when we think usually of the
19:14
church and the Hub, we think of like Rome, Eastern Western
19:18
Europe, and then travels out to the United States.
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And then we go, OK, now we're going to get to the rest of the
19:25
world and we're going to these places.
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But now those places are the hub of Christianity.
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And my professors like jokingly, he says at the end of a lot of
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his stuff, he goes, so if anyone wants to become missionaries to
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white people, we have a sign up sheet in the back of the church
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because that's where it's dying off is in in Europe and in North
19:46
America. And so, you know, the places
19:49
that were once the growing church, so now the dying church,
19:54
and the places that seem to be unreached are now the majority
19:59
of the church. And the mission sending?
20:02
Centers and it completely shifts how I grew up thinking of
20:06
missionaries, how I grew up thinking of like where the
20:09
church was and where it needed to go.
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But you know, one of our biggest challenges at this time is how
20:16
do we minister to those that feel like they already know what
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Christianity is about, Like they have a remnant or idea of what
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they think churches or what Jesus is and they're already not
20:30
about that. And so how do we?
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Well, and I think, I think that's the shift we're
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experiencing right now, right? And, and the younger generation
20:39
that's coming up, Gen. Z, Gen.
20:42
Alpha, they don't have that remnant mentality.
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They don't have that, you know, that little bit of Christian
20:51
influence that maybe millennials did and Gen.
20:54
X certainly did. And so, yes, OK.
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He pointed at himself, and I wasn't sure.
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Yeah, I'm one of the oldest millennials, that's for sure.
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Yeah. January 1984.
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It's generally considered the start of the Millennials,
21:11
sometimes 83. How many times have you re
21:16
googled that for comfort? Yeah.
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Well, the reality is I actually look at the rest of the
21:21
millennial generation, like I don't really relate because
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there's so many things in my childhood that are different
21:28
than what defines the millennial generation.
21:31
Like often it's talk talks about like they grew up with the
21:34
Internet and computers and stuff.
21:36
I remember not having those things, you know, and not just
21:39
because my family didn't have them, Like they didn't exist on
21:43
a wide scale. You know, I didn't have a cell
21:46
phone until I was 16. So anyway, but but the younger
21:51
generations, Gen. Z, Gen.
21:52
Alpha, they don't have that. They haven't been shaped by that
21:56
in the same way because most of what they've grown up in is the
21:59
post Christian context or what they are growing up in.
22:04
And so I think that's a part of the openness that we're seeing
22:09
is they're able to hear about Jesus.
22:12
They're able to hear about what God's doing, and in a way that
22:15
doesn't come with the same baggage.
22:18
And if we can present Jesus as he is and leave aside our own
22:25
baggage that comes with it, I think it's a pretty compelling
22:28
witness to those generations. And how do we represent Christ?
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How do we represent Christ if we aren't walking in his ways and
22:38
living like he did right. And so I think that's where, you
22:41
know, the practicing the way course was so great.
22:44
And you even can you just share the the warning you gave at the
22:47
beginning of our last session? Yeah, yeah.
22:51
I sat, I sat him down in our last practicing the way session
22:54
and said, I just want to say now that I wrote the rough draft of
22:59
my sermon for Sunday before I watched the video.
23:03
Because when I, I'd sat down on Wednesday morning to really kind
23:06
of write out kind of the, the outline or the rough draft of my
23:10
sermon and then sat down that afternoon in advance of our
23:14
Wednesday night session and watched through the video for
23:17
that last week. I was like, oh, there's a lot of
23:20
similarity here. There's a lot of echoes and I
23:26
didn't want anybody to think that I watched the video and
23:30
then sat down and wrote my sermon based on.
23:32
Which the word forge was not mentioned in the video.
23:35
That's true. But it is interesting that after
23:38
all of the different practices, the conclusion of practicing the
23:42
way is community. Yeah.
23:45
And so when you talk about this. Together.
23:47
The hammer and all that stuff and then the anvil like it.
23:50
The last piece is the support underneath all of the other
23:53
things that we do is we're living trying to live like
23:56
Christ and practicing the way and so how you know you touched
24:00
on discipleship bands. We've talked about practicing
24:05
the way we had emotionally healthy spirituality and the
24:09
fall. And we will have it again in the
24:13
fall for people who didn't get a chance to.
24:15
Get into it is like for those that curiosity has piqued or
24:19
they've done one piece of any of this or multiple pieces, as a
24:23
congregation, what can we look forward to?
24:26
Like by the end of this year, what are some things that are
24:29
going to be available and talked about?
24:31
Yeah. So emotionally healthy
24:32
spirituality is going to be a part of that for sure.
24:35
We're going to run another session of that in the fall
24:39
because there's a second-half to that called Emotionally Healthy
24:42
Relationships that I'd love to get to because I think a lot of
24:46
us have experienced brokenness in relationships.
24:49
A lot of that pain comes through relationships, but so then does
24:52
a lot of the healing that needs to take place come through
24:55
relationship? So I want to get to that point,
24:58
but I wanted to broaden our base of people who have been through
25:02
the emotional healthy spirituality class before we get
25:06
to the relational side of it. But yeah, so that EHS class will
25:10
be happening in the fall. At some point we're going to
25:15
have a a workshop based around these discipleship bands to kind
25:21
of give people an overview, kind of work through some of the
25:26
stuff in much more depth then I was able to in just kind of
25:32
passing over the questions. And but I wanted to just plant
25:35
that seed so that way we could get there a little there.
25:38
Because I do think that these discipleship bans are a key part
25:42
of what God wants to do in US. And there are other models
25:48
people could use. I I lean towards these
25:50
discipleship bans because I've seen the fruit of it in my own
25:52
life and. And in the lives of others.
25:55
And in the lives of others, for sure.
25:57
And so it's not that I think that that they're the only way
26:00
God can meet this need, but I do think they're a great option for
26:06
us. And so kind of mentioned it like
26:08
they're different than just a Bible study at church.
26:10
They're different than your Sunday school class.
26:13
It's different than even what a life group often becomes,
26:16
although a life group might have some of those aspects in it
26:21
where you are in closer relationship.
26:23
But I do think we need those two or three or four people who we
26:29
choose to be that vulnerable and intimate with as we work out
26:35
what God's doing in our lives. Because reflecting week by week
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to be able to share with that group helps you not miss what
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God's doing, right? When we're when we're walking
26:50
with God day by day, it's just like watching our kids grow.
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We don't always see the little changes that are happening day
26:59
by day. And then somebody who hasn't
27:01
seen them in six months bumps into you and they're like, Oh my
27:06
gosh, you're getting so big. How old are you now?
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And, and I think the same can happen in our spiritual lives.
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We don't necessarily notice the changes that are happening day
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by day and the way he's growing us.
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But these weekly check insurance help us to notice those things.
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And they help us to see where he's moving and where we can
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cooperate with him even more to make ourselves available to what
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he wants to do. Yeah, and and more urgently, you
27:36
called the church and to prayer and fasting.
27:39
Could you give a little rundown for that in the more immediate?
27:42
Yeah. So starting tomorrow, Thursday,
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May 8th, I'm just inviting our congregation, and anyone else
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who cares too for that matter, into a time of prayer and
28:00
fasting, asking people to skip lunch that day, to fast from
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lunch that day, and devote that time to prayer for the legal
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situation that our church is in. With our annual conference in
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the denomination, leading up to two weeks from tomorrow will be
28:21
some depositions that are happening in that legal case.
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And so we want to make sure we're covering that process in
28:29
prayer and the representative from our church here in
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Collingswood in prayer. And so yeah, for the next 3
28:38
Thursdays, not a long time, 3 weeks, asking people to pray and
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fast for that lunch hour each of those Thursdays.
28:49
And so, yeah, we'd love to have people join.
28:51
And I think there is, there's so many things that fasting does in
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us, but one of them is it makes us more more open to hearing
29:04
what God is saying so that we can respond to that.
29:08
And so it's not, I was listening to a podcast and we need to put
29:13
that in the show notes. I think one of the best
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teachings I've ever heard on fasting was listening to it just
29:20
last week and so, but he said, you know, fasting isn't a hunger
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strike before God where we're trying to get his attention so
29:30
he'll do what we want him to do. It's far more about opening
29:35
ourselves up to what God is doing, what he is saying.
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And when we choose to to abstain from, from food, it makes us
29:48
that much more available to God. So we'll put that, we'll put
29:53
that in the show notes for sure. Yeah.
29:55
So I hope you'll you'll join us in that fast over the next three
30:00
weeks. Give yourselves a prayer over
30:04
this situation, and we'll see you next week for the
30:08
conversation you're listening to Beyond the Sermon podcast, the
30:12
First Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
30:15
On our podcast, the goal is not just to share our sermons, but
30:18
to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're learning and
30:20
what God is doing in US and in our community.
30:23
The conversation you're about to join was inspired by our January
30:27
2025 sermon series, Practicing the Way, Apprenticing under
30:31
Jesus's Rule of Life. In this series, we're talking
30:34
about what it means to live according to the way of Jesus
30:37
and the practices that can help us createspace for God to
30:40
transform us. You can find more information
30:42
about our church at fumccollingswood.org.
30:46
Thanks for joining us for this conversation.