Latest / The Cyclical Doula Podcast: Fertility Awareness, Charting Cycles, and Reproductive Health Education / Building Confidence After Birth: Supporting New Moms With Sarah Husain
Transcript
- emmamma: Today, I am really honored to be joined by Sarah. Sarah is a naturopathic doctor, a board certified lactation consultant, and the founder of Your Downtown Doula. She's also a mom of two boys. For nearly a decade, she's been supporting families through pregnancy postpartum and that often overwhelming transition into parenthood. I am so excited to have this conversation knowing that Sarah's work is in her commitment to informed choice, confidence, and honoring the fact Emmamma: hey, just popping in real quick to say sure you're subscribed to the Cyclical Doula podcast on whichever platform you're listening to. ⁓ Thanks so much for being here today on the cyclical doula podcast. If this episode resonated with you, the most powerful thing that you can do is to share it, send it to a friend, text it to your sister, forward it to that group chat. This is how conversations about our bodies start changing, quietly, organically, woman to woman. you are listening and thinking, ⁓ ⁓ want help applying this to my And don't miss upcoming conversations. If this episode is resonating with you, please share it with a friend, rate it and write a review. This is how this movement grows, not through algorithms, but through women talking to women. All right, let's jump back into it. emmamma: that only you know what's best for your family. So thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you and dive into so many things today. Emmamma: I offer free cycle clarity calls. It's a relaxed conversation over Zoom we talk through your goals, your charting practices, and kind of support that would actually make sense for you. can book one at emmamma.com / free. And if you already, make sure you're following or subscribe to the Cyclical Doula - podcast so that you don't miss future episodes. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. emmamma: Absolutely. So can you share a little bit more for our listeners just about like who you are as a human being? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, so I am, like you said, a naturopathic doctor and a board certified lactation consultant. I also do infant craniosacral therapy in my practice, which is like a lot of things, a lot of like stuff that just means I like live and breathe babies. like babies, postpartum recovery, pregnancy, like that's just my jam. ⁓ I've been doing this work for almost 10 years, which is crazy to me. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Emmamma: And if you feel called to leave a rating or review, it genuinely helps more women find this work. So thank you. You deserve to understand body. You deserve to feel confident in your reproductive choices. And you ⁓ have to figure it out alone. I'll see you next week. Thanks for being here. emmamma: Yes. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: And yeah, I have two kids. I've been there. emmamma: That's amazing. Yeah, for sure. I love that. think like, I feel like once you get into the space of like working with a family postpartum and like with those infants, like you said, like you're doing infant cradiosacral stuff now too. that, that like, as you learn more about how you can support them, you're like, okay, like I need this other information to be able to support them better. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like there's, it's just like one rabbit hole after another rabbit hole after another rabbit hole of like, there's so much information out there. But I really like to, I like to think that I do kind of like whole family care. like the naturopath piece is, you know, that's like the hat where I look at like postpartum recovery, like mental health, that kind of stuff. The lactation piece is like the feeding and then the infant craniosacral therapy is like, how do we take care of the baby? Yeah. emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so good. So what kind of brought you into this work specifically? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, that's a great question. Kind of by accident, honestly, my, one of my co-founders was just like, like while I was still in school, was, I I started in physics and then hated it so much and then went into naturopathic medicine because I had a colleague when I was working a lifeguarding job as a teenager, she went into naturopathic medicine and she told me all about it and I really loved it. ⁓ So I dropped out of a master's in physics and went into naturopathic medicine, which is not at all the same thing. And then while I was in school, ⁓ emmamma: Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: One of the co-founders of my company was like, I think there's like a weekend doula training. I think you would really love it. You should do it. And I was like, okay, it's like right beside my house. It was like really cheap for students. I was like, I'll do it, I'll do it. ⁓ And I was like totally, totally hooked on it. ⁓ After the first birth I attended, I was like, this is the best, like the oxytocin hit of being around babies. ⁓ emmamma: Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: And then one of my really early clients really struggled with breastfeeding and I just did not have the tools to help her. And I feel like as a naturopath, we're looking at the foundations of health. There's nothing more important to the foundations of health than optimizing breastfeeding for babies. So that was what triggered the start of the lactation journey. And then now here I am 10 years later doing all the things. emmamma: right. doing all the things. That's amazing. I love that. So you, I'm sure have seen so many families that you've supported over the last decade or so, is that right? That, amazing. So what do you think most parents feel like the most unprepared for when they enter into this postpartum time of their Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. Yeah, like probably over a thousand babies is my guess. Yeah. Emmamma: Welcome to the Cyclical Doula podcast. I'm Emma, a certified fertility awareness educator, miscarriage doula and the founder of Emmamma Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, I mean, I, well, I don't see the people where feeding is going well. ⁓ I hear all the time, like people are like, I thought I was prepared for like the birth and I spent so much time working about like the birth, which is important. ⁓ But then I didn't realize breastfeeding would be so hard. I hear that all the time. I didn't realize breastfeeding would be so hard. I thought it was just natural. Your body just does it, which is like not. emmamma: Yeah, well, that makes sense. Right. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: how it works a lot of the time. Sometimes it does, that's great, but not all the time. So that and then I think anything to do with infant sleep is also like people are inundated with information about what is supposed to be happening versus what is happening. And a lot of the times that information doesn't... emmamma: Unfortunately, yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: jive with like proper feeding advice and then so their expectations are all like it's just overwhelming and confusing and like people don't know how to get good information. like feeding and sleep for babies are like the two probably most stressful things. And then I feel like because people are so stressed about those things, taking care of yourself kind of falls off the chart. Yeah. Emmamma: This space is for women who want to understand their bodies deeply, not just memorize information, but actually feel confident in interpreting their cycles. Here we talk about ovulation, hormones, cervical mucus, basal body temperature, and all that's messy in between emotional layers that come with being woman. We talk about trying to conceive, avoiding pregnancy ⁓ hormones. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, which then I think like spirals into this for many people, especially first time parents, like spirals into this like guilt of not feeling like you're doing enough or all of those things. What do you feel like you can just, again, like you have a niche of like people who are looking for support are coming to you. So I'm sure like that's part of it. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yes. Emmamma: postpartum transitions, pregnancy loss, perimenopause, and everything in between. Because body literacy isn't just about charting. It's about the autonomy. It's about informed consent. It's about not outsourcing your reproductive decisions to guesswork or fear. Each week, you'll hear conversations with women's health professionals, ⁓ workers, ⁓ Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yes. Yep. emmamma: But what are you seeing in society that's coming up for people in those early weeks around just how moms are reacting to being parents? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, mean, there's like so, ⁓ my God, so many things. So many things come up. ⁓ Part of it is that like people feel we put so much pressure on ourselves and especially too if you're like in the corporate world or you've been working a full-time high-stress job and then all of a sudden you're like, not, you know? And you have so much control in a workplace and with babies you just like don't have that. emmamma: Yeah Emmamma: and researchers along with solo episodes where I teach practical skills you can apply to your own cycle right away. if you have ever felt like you should have learned this information sooner, if you have ever felt disconnected from your cycle, emmamma: Yeah, right. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Maybe you don't have all the control in the workplace, like with babies you truly really do not have control over what happens. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: And so there's a piece of a lot of anxiety of giving up some of that control, giving up some of that perfectionism. You really have to work with the baby that you have with you and different babies have different personalities. So what works with one baby might not work with the next baby in the same family, even though it's the same parents. So just like... Emmamma: If you want to raise the next generation without shame around their bodies, you are in the right place. So grab your tea, open up your notes app, and let's build a cycle confidence together. emmamma: Right? Right. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: navigating, trying to do everything right and having some grace for yourself. I feel like that's a big one. And then also just, so the expectations you have on yourself, but also the expectations that other people put on you, right? Because for the whole of your life, your mom is the mom. And then when you have a baby, all of a sudden in one instant, you are the mom. And so like trying to figure out that because there's new relationship dynamics and advocating for things that you feel are important and like all of this, you know, dealing with the expectations of family members. All of those things are like an additional layer of stress on top of the stress we put on ourselves. emmamma: Bye. Yeah, which is so much. I think like that just, that overwhelm doesn't help with all of these other things that are taking place of figuring out how to sleep at all and how to take care of ourselves. And then of course, a lot of the things that you're doing too is about feeding and breastfeeding and all of those things, which can be such an emotional experience for people. Yeah, what? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Truly, truly, yes. emmamma: Do you wish people understood more about like going into that feeding experience? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: yeah. One of the biggest things actually is you're in the States, right? You're in the States? Yeah. Okay. So it's true in Canada. It's maybe a little bit different, but it's definitely, it's certainly, I think this goes across the border. emmamma: Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: the goals of working with somebody in the hospital are going to be different than maybe what your goals were going in and what your goals are once you're home. Right? So like, if you are in the hospital with your baby, the primary goal of both you and the lactation consultant you're working with is to not be in the hospital anymore. Right? Really, right? And sometimes that means that you're maybe like making decisions that aren't necessarily like, emmamma: Right, right. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: favoring long-term breastfeeding goals or long-term feeding goals in general, but they're important to get out of the hospital. But that doesn't mean that that's what you should necessarily be doing or need to be doing if you don't like it for the whole of everything, right? There are things that you can do to protect your supply or protect how you're the latching and things like that. even just asking the question of, okay, this seems like it's maybe not necessarily gonna protect my feeding goal, emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: where I'd like to make sure that I have enough supply for six months or be directly feeding from my body, like, is there other things that I can do that are gonna make that more likely in the future, even if it's not happening right now, because we're in the NICU or whatever, whatever, having, because the nurse is not gonna necessarily have that long-term thought for you, so just having the like, ask a long-term question, you know? And also to like, emmamma: for sure. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Just because something is happening right now does not mean that it's gonna happen forever. because you're having pain right now, ⁓ of all you shouldn't, it's not normal, you should not have pain with breastfeeding, you should get help, ⁓ just because there's pain right now does not mean that you're gonna have pain if you're planning on nursing for two years. Just you're having issues with supply doesn't mean that you can't change that, but the earlier you get help, the easier it's gonna be for ⁓ most with life. Just because something is happening right now does not mean that it's gonna happen forever. Just because you're having pain right now, first of all you shouldn't, it's not normal, you should not have pain with breastfeeding, you should get help, but just because there's pain right now does not mean that you're gonna have pain if you're planning on nursing for two years. Just because you're having issues with supply doesn't mean that you can't change that, but the earlier you get help, the easier it's gonna be for most things with life. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Absolutely. Which I think is so helpful. think I, like before I had my first kid, we lived in Vermont at the time. So a little bit more of like a natural, like crunchy kind of atmosphere. Yeah. And so there was, there was a resource to take a breastfeeding class beforehand. And we went, we like did the thing. I feel like even though I learned a Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Thanks. emmamma: good amount of information there. I felt like it still didn't prepare me enough to know anything. And I also, I'm one of five kids, I saw babies be breastfed. It was not something brand new to me. And it's still, I was like, this is mind boggling and hard, yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: unfamiliar. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I was studying to become a lactation consultant when I had my first and I was literally like doing hands-on help with other people and still the first time I did it with my baby I was like, ⁓ that this is happening and I was like not prepared for that. emmamma: Yeah. Break. Right. Yeah. It's a lot. And I think like, I'm so thankful that there's so many different types of lactation consultants out there to be able to support so many women. And then also I feel like there's so many people who still don't know that this is like an option of support that they can get, which is the duality of that is hard. ⁓ Is there anything, like other than taking like a class, is there anything that you do or like would promote for people to do before, like maybe during pregnancy before breastfeeding that could help them prepare as best as possible? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, mean, the class is going to be your best. A class is going to be your best bet. And then if you have other people in your life that have babies, ⁓ just hang out with them. Like, truly, just be like, can I see you feed your baby though? ⁓ Can I hold your baby? Because lots of times if you're not one of five kids, know, people are like, I haven't held a baby in my adult life. This is the first baby I've held and it's my baby. Right? Like that's then that makes it really hard because then you're not really emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Right. It does. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: like awkward and not really sure what to do so just like being around other parents la l'eche league if they're operating in your area has group meetups you can go you can sit you can watch ⁓ that that can be really, really helpful just to understand. Because even if you're not learning per se, you're seeing it, right? And your mirror neurons are firing and your brain like, ⁓ yeah, I remember this person sort of holding them like this or doing this with their arms or ⁓ they're not actually as fragile as you think they are. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Bye. For sure. I think that's a big shocker for people who haven't held the babies before, is just how, like, you can really kind of appropriately throw them around. ⁓ I hear... Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yes, how unfraudable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't actually, but like kind of. And you don't really realize that until you have more than one baby. And then there's a toddler interacting with the baby. emmamma: Yeah, and you have to, yeah, you're, yeah, right. All the juggling, yeah, for sure. It's amazing. ⁓ Yeah, so I, if there's like one thing that you can tell anybody about feeding, breastfeeding, feeding journeys in general, what's like the one thing that you always want to drive home with people in that? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. Just be open to how it goes. Be open to how it goes. Because especially if it's your first, like you've never done this before. But even if it's not your first, you've never done it with this baby before. And... emmamma: Yeah, yeah. which they can be so different. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: It's so different. Different babies have different personalities from like the moment they're born and you say that and you're like, yeah, whatever. And then you have more than one kid and you're like, no, but for real though, like that's different. They're just different. And so you have to like learn. emmamma: You For sure. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: be open to learning them and learning and maybe especially, I know in the States combo feeding is very common or breast milk by bottle is very common. So you might have your first baby where they're like, this bottle is totally fine and I'm good with it. And you're like, I'm prepared. And then the second baby just will not take that bottle. Or it suddenly gets very gassy or whatever, just different babies are gonna be different and you just have to be... emmamma: Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: lose the perfectionism and just be open to how things progress. Yeah. emmamma: Yeah, absolutely. What are some of those ways that you help moms rebuild that maybe like that trust in themselves when their confidence in this is like, okay, like I have no, I thought I knew what I was doing, but now I have no idea what I'm doing. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, a lot of it is because it's there. Maybe they are second guessing themselves, but the vast majority of the time, your instincts are good. And one of the things that I often tell people, and I... emmamma: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: I don't, I keep meaning to look up this study because I, I don't know, I don't have a reference for it, but this was something that, in a pediatric class I took when I was in naturopathic school, they mentioned that like one of the best predictors of a baby having an ear infection was the mom thinking that the baby had an ear infection. Like not pulling at their ears, not a fever, not red cheeks, whatever. It was the mom being like, this baby has an ear infection. It's like one of the number one predictors of emmamma: Interesting. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: your infection, right? And it's just because you put in the time, right? So if you are going to be with somebody 24 hours a day for days and days and days and days and days and days and and even if you're going back to work, you're still with them like 16 hours a day and babies are waiting for a good chunk of those. Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, it's... emmamma: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Right. For most of that time, yeah. ⁓ Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: You're just, maybe you don't know now, like when your baby's three days old or four days old or five days old, but you will. You will, I promise you that like if I'm doing a follow-up visit with you in three months, you're gonna be like, ⁓ no, the baby doesn't like to be held like that. Like don't hold them like that, they prefer this. You know? And I won't know that, but you will. emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: You know? ⁓ And just like giving grace to yourself, right? Because they are a stranger to you when you meet them, but you will learn them very well. emmamma: Yeah, I think that's so good. And I think so many people just need to hear that, that like, like, instinct is, is usually for the majority of the time leading people in the correct way of like, you know your baby, you know how to take care of them well. And like, yeah, there's other resources that if you need support with those out there. And also like, you, you know, you know how, how they react to things. And like, I feel like I see that. I have an in-home daycare as well and my husband was an educator. So like I see kids in all different types of walks. And I feel like sometimes as like other caregivers, like a nanny too, like other caregivers, see things, you pick up on things that kids do. And I'm sure like you do in your profession as well. but then that, their parents like still like know them so well. And, and that's really important to, to remember as a parent that like, Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Know it better. Know much better. emmamma: It's okay, like you know it. You just, know exactly what they're doing. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: You know, you know. Yeah. And like, again, like, don't discount the number of hours that you've spent, right? Like, you are an expert. What is it, like 10,000 hours or whatever to become an expert in something? Okay, like, how many hours in a day? How many days are you spending with that baby? Like, you're not, it's, you're getting pretty close pretty quick, you know? emmamma: Bye. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Especially when you're up all hours of the night sometimes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. What do you, how do you like to support families and moms emotionally as well within, other than just helping them realize that they're doing things well as best, like what else do do? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, by the time you get to a toddler, you're a certified expert in that kid. But then the next one is different, right? So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, part of it is like setting expectations, Setting expectations, managing guilt, like diving into that a little bit, talking about that. emmamma: Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: I am always doing a mental health screening when I'm with people. Ruling out postpartum mood disorders is necessary. ⁓ And sometimes too, you just, even if someone's like, how are you doing? Your doctor's like, you doing okay? You're like, yes, and then that's it. But why? emmamma: Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: I only do home visits in my practice and my visits are like, my initial visit is two hours long. So I'm like there for a long time. We are talking about a lot of stuff. And so you can get, you get a sense of like, okay, like, yeah, maybe you said you were okay, but like, are you really okay? And so, you know, referring when needed supplements, that's where like the naturopath hat comes in, herbs and supplements. ⁓ And then like lifestyle things, right? Like people forget how important emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: it is to like have a shower and change your clothes. You know, like go go outside for 10 minutes, even even if that's if 10 minutes is all you can handle like those things are so important and we forget. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So yeah, I appreciate the way that you do this, because I feel like sometimes, and maybe you can correct me if you feel differently, but I feel like sometimes if you go, any type of practice that I've gone to, like those postpartum screenings, like they hand you a piece of paper in my experience and fill it out. And I'm like, I know enough to know that if I'm trying to like, Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: We'll take some 13. emmamma: show that I'm not experiencing these things or like trying to like be like, ⁓ no, like I am fine. Like I'm okay. Like it's not really that big of a deal. Then like, then like I know how to like circle those answers to skew that. And like, that sounds crazy saying that out loud, but being able to like, be like, okay, no, like there are these resources of people who are spending hours with you and like, Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. It reminds me, it reminds me of serious. Yeah. emmamma: There's only so much time that you can be like, no, no, I'm fine in a like two hour period that somebody's there helping you, supporting you. Cause at some point you're gonna be like, I need to go to the bathroom, but I don't know how to like get up and walk away from the baby or whatever. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Or like you get to see what the support system is really like in the home. You get to see like how, you know, if I'm doing a physical, what are the, I, one of the best parts about my practice, if I'm like talking to students, I'm like, I actually don't do that much of a, of a physical exam of a baby. What I do is I observe because if you would observe a baby feeding, you're going to see like all of the innate infant reflexes at work, like where they're supposed to be, you're going to emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: their tone, you're going to be able to do like a good vital check on them with like very little, very little... like exam, you know what I mean? You can just hold them and watch them and, but then you get to see like, how does the parent respond? I'm picking up and holding the baby, you know, to like see what they do, how is the parent responding? Like, how are they, like, are they okay with it? Are they like, yeah, no, it's fine. Are they like, oh my God, is the baby okay? How are they like during the feeding? Like, how are they, how comfortable are they holding their baby? Like all of those things are, emmamma: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like physical touch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: It gives you like a lot of information. It gives you a of information. I love the type of practice that I do. ⁓ emmamma: God. Yeah, that's so good. Do you often meet with people beforehand as well, like before they're giving birth? Are you really meeting with them when they're like newly posed part of? Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Not as much as I would like I feel I feel like because you'd a lot of times people don't know until they know ⁓ We do my company like does offer doula services as well and we do touch a little bit on breastfeeding in our like prenatal consults, but a lot of the time People are like I only have so much time. I only have so much like workplace benefits that I can use to pay for this stuff emmamma: Right. Right, right. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: And so usually I'm like, well, here's my phone number. Call me when you need me. then I usually go later. emmamma: you Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I just feel like I could see how beneficial it could be, obviously, like if the stars aligned, that there were resources to do that, to be able to meet with people beforehand too. Yeah. ⁓ As we're talking about all of this, I would love to know just like a little bit more about you and is there something of like a rhythm or ritual that you just love as an individual or a practitioner, as a mom that in the seasons of life? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: like different seasons of life or do want me to go back to where I am now? yeah, it's interesting because I feel like I... emmamma: No, like this one. No, no, like now. Today. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: A lot of it is about using what you have available to you. I do home visits and I find so much value in doing home visits for the type of work that I do. I genuinely don't know that I can do what I do in a clinic setting, but that means I spend a lot of time in the car. Then taking that time and what can I do with that time? I have playlists that I have, depending on my mood, I have playlists, have podcasts, I have educational stuff that I'll emmamma: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: do like I so I have this like beautiful protected time where I'm driving usually during the day so there's like not a lot of other people on the road there's no kids in the car with me it's just like me listening to whatever I want to like decompressing learning something maybe ⁓ and and I actually like as much as it's maybe not great for my posture I really I really love that time of like in between where it's like forced emmamma: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nyeh heh! Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: resting almost. emmamma: Yeah, yeah, that's so good. I think like that's, it's so helpful. And I think we talking about self care earlier on. And I think that like, finding those things as a parent that you can do for yourself to either like, stimulate your own brain or like do something different, talk to another adult or all of those things can be so helpful. ⁓ And so that's, it's good to hear. I love hearing other. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. Mm-hmm. emmamma: other moms rituals just because it's like, ⁓ like, that's a cool idea. That's a fun idea. Or like, yes, I experienced that as well. And so, yeah, that's so good. Thanks for sharing that. What else as, as you've gone through your experience working with families, do you feel like things have changed with how you work with families? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. emmamma: as you've become a parent and are in different stages of motherhood. ⁓ Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, I mean, I was pregnant when I started. So like, was like I've done this at the same time. I find a lot of lactation consultants are like, and then I really struggled. So then I went and trained to be a lactation consultant. It was watching other people struggle that like really put me into the path that I'm in. emmamma: Yes, yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: But I feel like you get the perspective and probably it's the perspective that I thought was super annoying when I was like really in it with my kids, you know, where you're like, why are you telling me it'll get easier? My whole life is gonna be like this for forever. I'm never gonna. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: But like truly your children grow up and things get different and maybe not always easier But certainly it's not gonna be 24 hours a day Physical contact all the time like there is gonna be a time where they're gonna be like I don't want you to hug me when you drop me off at school And it will be soul-crushing for you, and so if your newborn wants to sleep on your chest Like that's probably fine emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, for sure. think that I would agree that like, so my kids are four and six, and my daughter who's four, she was a hard baby. She screamed the first five months of her life, which was rough. But I remember in that timeframe that one of my mom's really good friends who's a... Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Okay. Hmm. emmamma: dear person to me. I remember her being like in the same space as us and her looking me in the eyes and being like, Emma, this is not normal. And like, just know, like you are not going crazy. Like this is, this is not the norm. Like, so like just like this baby is like needs help in the sense of like, you're doing all the things and like do it, keep doing all the things, but like just like know that the end. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, this baby is truly fussy. this is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is hard, Yeah. emmamma: That's been like reassuring to me coming out of that. Like in the moment I was like, yeah, yeah, whatever. But like coming out of that season, like it always sticks with me that I was like, it was so helpful to have other people who had been parenting for much longer than I have. Cause again, she was my second. Like my first was really, he was really easy. And for people to just be like, no, no, like this is like abnormal. This is not just like who she is as a person. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: truly art. emmamma: So yeah, it's helpful. So if you're listening to this and you're in a season of just feeling like that overwhelm, for sure, it does get easier. It changes and there's hard times in parenting whenever, but man, it sometimes is, it's rough. And then also there's sometimes that it's so easy and you can like live in that joy too of that and be fine with that too. And that's helpful. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one of the things too, I feel like that I realized as my kids got older is that you can love your children and hate the stage that they're in. Like three year olds, mm-mm. Nope, no, no. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I feel that way about four. I was telling another doula friend recently, was like, I literally, like four is my least favorite age so far. yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Interesting. Three is my least favorite age for sure. feel like before they there starts to be like a small amount of reasoning that can happen and I like I'm like okay this is fine but three-year-olds are articulate and then completely nonsensical and you know and it just doesn't work. I'm very frustrated. emmamma: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. There's like too much synapsing happening in their brain and also at the same time, they have no idea how to say anything. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, yeah, like I truly disliked parenting both of my children when they were three and that doesn't mean that I don't love them very much. emmamma: Yeah, yeah. For sure, absolutely. I think that's so helpful to hear just like, again, like as parents, like it's just helpful to hear, especially early on that like, you can really love your child, you can really love your baby and also like really dislike the newborn stage or really dislike three or really dislike four and like that's totally fine. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: And I think it's hard because the newborn stages the intro, right? It's the first, so then you're like, ⁓ my God, do I just not like my kid? Is this gonna be forever that I'm gonna feel like this? And it's like, no, it changes and the whole relationship changes and they change as a person. They're an inert little lump when they're newborns. And then they grow into these whole people. So it's gonna change, it's not always, and it's okay to not really like it that much. emmamma: We are. I ain't no Yeah, yeah, I think that's really helpful to just hear. And I think as parents, excuse me, I think as parents, we have this time of just like, feeling, I guess maybe that like mom guilt that we were talking about earlier on, like, it just, can feel like we second guess ourselves so easily. And I appreciate that there's people out there like you who can just help women in these different stages of being able to be like, okay, like, no, like this is here's Thanks to help and also like, here's how to get through it too. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. And I usually, I almost always tell people they're doing a good job. It's like one of the last things. I make a point to be like, when I'm closing up my visit, like, I want you to know that you're doing a good job. And people usually like weep. Yeah. emmamma: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Those postpartum hormones can be rough in itself, which I think like I've had somebody, a couple of people recently be like, ⁓ I'm so sorry. Like it's, I think it's just hormones of like them starting to cry. And I'm like, okay, like, but like it's okay, even if it wasn't and you were crying, like that would be okay. Like that's fine. ⁓ Absolutely. What else do you want people to? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's also okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. emmamma: walk away from this conversation with. I know we've touched on a bunch of different things, but you can take as much time as you want. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah, mean, I think just like having grace for yourself, giving yourself time to like learn and grow and make mistakes and like not be the, you know, perfect mom that you, you'll always be a perfect mom until you have kids, right? ⁓ And then you just like, just grace and like make mistakes and that's okay. And learning along the way and get support. emmamma: Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: support early and don't be afraid to get support and as much support as you need, whether that comes in the form of professionals or just like calling other moms in your circle. Like I know, you know, for me, if I have friends who have young babies, I'm always like, I'm going to bring food. Do you want food? Like, can I do your laundry? this is, and people often like, emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: no, no, no, it's okay, you don't have to, I'm like, no, but like, accept it because you're in a season of needing more help. so you like take it as an opportunity to learn how to receive. And then later, you know, because my kids are four and eight also, like now I'm in a place where I can give a little bit more, you know? And it comes back around. comes back around. emmamma: Yeah, right, right, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah, I think that's so good. So helpful of just like being able to receive the things that people are giving to you and you can hold boundaries with them, but also just like be like, here, like, yeah, bring me food. That's helpful. That's good. That's so good. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. You can come over, but you have to do my dishes when you get here. emmamma: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's so good. I think sometimes being more blunt about our needs is so important of how we can do that. Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for sharing just a teeny tiny bit of I'm sure your expansive wisdom and knowledge. ⁓ How can people connect with you? Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Yeah. Yeah, so I am in Toronto, Canada. Our company is called Your Downtown Dula. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook at at downtowndulat.io. And I think we're also on TikTok with the same handle. ⁓ I'm not on TikTok, but I'm like scared of it a little bit ⁓ at downtowndulatio and then on online at yourdowntoundula.com. emmamma: Yeah. That's so good. We'll put all of those things in the show notes and be sure to follow Sarah to learn just more about her practice and what she's doing. And thanks so much for being here. Dr. Sarah Husain, ND: Thanks so much for having me, I really appreciate it. emmamma: Absolutely.