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6. Building Healthy Prophetic Culture: Unraveling Lies · The Hearing God Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I'm Anthony Moore.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: And I'm Dan Lamas.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: For over a decade, anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical and the matters of the heart.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And we invite you into these weekly conversations.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table, so pull up a chair, settle in and let's get started.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Well, here we are.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Here we are Anthony.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Here we are Dan.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, how you doing.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I'm doing well, yeah, yeah, doing well.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Summer's been great, yeah.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So here we are, in august, and yeah, yeah, sometime, some random time in august.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, uh, you know, just as we get started, um, you know, sort of very connected to what you and I do here at kings is, uh, we deal and you know it's the name of the podcast Hearing God.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: We deal a lot with caring about and helping people hear God better, whether that's through prophetic ministry or, you know, through freedom prayer, which is a lot of just like okay, just this is a very Sometimes it's like sit down, shut up and listen, right yeah.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not as crass as that, but just somehow that.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Well, just so everyone knows, it's never as crass as that just for the record.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: But it's really like okay, just stop.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Long enough to hear from God yeah.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: One of the things I thought would be fun to do is one of the things that's near and dear to my heart is developing a healthy, prophetic culture and, uh, maybe, uh, amen, by the way, yeah, and I think that that's huge.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: You know, we've, we've really, you know, growing up, um, a lot of this has been, uh, learned by, you know, making mistakes.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: A lot of it's been learned by making mistakes.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: A lot of it's been.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: We've grown up and experienced things that weren't healthy until we got on the other side of it and we thought, oh wow, that wasn't good, or just lies that we've picked up along the way.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And so I just thought, in the spirit of just beginning, to start the conversation on what it's like to build, to create, to live in and the values of a healthy, prophetic culture, I just thought we'd crack that open a little bit this morning.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Cause I think that there is.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a loaded, it's loaded and there's a lot of things that we could talk about in that.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, one of the things we talked about maybe doing this morning is just starting off with, like, telling our stories, and maybe, I don't know maybe, if you want to, you start and yeah, yeah, yeah, telling talking to me, like, talk to me about what that was like for you, like what did?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: how did you grow up?
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: How did you learn you know about hearing god and when did that begin to matter for you?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah yeah, can you?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Just talk about what that was like yeah, well, I think first of all is that all churches are built out of imperfect people being part of church world from day one of my life and in many ways you're the same.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You know church kids growing up that I'm the back and forth.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Throughout my life it's been this love-hate relationship with being a church kid, being a church person my whole life.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's built out of imperfect people, including me, and this is the way god designed it.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, that that church is built out of people with hang-ups, immature people, mature people, you know, you got all this mix happening.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: That would be what I didn't appreciate when I was young.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I thought I had this thing that by the time I was a young adult age, I had sort of written off many people in the church community because I felt like, you know, I misunderstood that because of their imperfections, they were fake and hypocritical and whatever, and of course I was going to do it different, right, you know and just
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: this illusion that of course I wasn't going to, because I was just as imperfect and flawed as they were.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, these people, because of their imperfections, I experienced them as fake or hypocritical, but really they were just being normal human beings and God was working in their life.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't have known that when I was a kid, and so I had some hangups over hey, jesus, I love and respect and really know that, you know that the gospel is true and the only real way to live is to follow jesus.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: But in my immature years, um, chronologically and emotionally in every way, um, I really didn't understand that.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: that's just part of the reality of the kingdom on earth as it is in heaven is that the?
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Church is built of people.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah Right, and we're all in this growth process.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: It's almost like there's this intuitive maybe this is the intuitive, not intuitive, but it's like this naturally lie that we pick up.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Is that humanity?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: There's a certain way that this is.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: It's supposed to just look perfect, right?
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: And the lie is that it's supposed to be perfect, right, and the lie is that it's supposed to be perfect, right, but the reality is that imperfect people should bring some expectation of mess, right?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So that we are going to.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: But we don't necessarily get that when we're kids and we're growing up.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we think the world works a little differently and we're just sort of coming away to that, but yeah, anyway so I think my experience was this mixture of, uh, you know, when I acted out, you know, I mean, as I kind, as I came to the age of I don't know, I'm just, I'm just ballpark in here, like age 9, 10, 11, when you start to really understand what's right and wrong and feeling convicted of sin and having little sins that you commit, and then you hang on to them and they become secret sins.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: And that whole ballpark of being in that preteen, and then the teenage years of all of that, as I began to experience that I think I began to equate people who are behaving well and not sinning get to hear from God Okay, and that if I was acting out and sinning and not keeping things up to date because that was a big in my church growing up was keeping like a what's that expression you use a lot of times Keeping short accounts Right, like that was a big thing in my church growing up, which I'm grateful for.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: But it had its own shadow side.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: It created a lot of pressure for people just not feeling like we could just be ourselves Because as a kid you're fumbling all over the place and there didn't seem to be a lot of room to just be out front about it.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Anyway, dr Anthony.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I'm laying on the couch right now and Dr Anthony's got his pad of paper out.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: But thanks for asking.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I'll try to get to the.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Everyone and Dr Anthony's got his pad of paper out.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: But thanks for asking.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I'll try to get to the point here.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: You're welcome.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Hopefully I'm getting to a point.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: But there was this mixture of.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: You know, holy people who are acting and living a holy way get to hear from God, and the rest of us just need to just be ready to receive things secondhand.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, need to just be ready to receive things secondhand.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what you mean by holy is like the, the just, the behavior, the appearance of good behavior, right yeah yeah, right, yeah, like not doing all the wrong things and doing the right thing, right, right and that's like in that even just there is there.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: There's flaws in that definition, yeah that we yeah, that we pick up as kids.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: So I just want we all know god loves us but if you want him, to like you and talk to you in a way that you'd want to
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: hear what he's saying.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: You better be behaving properly Just project good behavior.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and so that was there.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: But the interesting thing, anthony, what I'm leading up to here, is that God, very beautifully and in a very, I think, strategic and wonderful way, kept invading my dream life that I knew from all the junior church stories, kid church stories and Sunday school classes where it seemed like everyone who was a hero in the Bible this is the way it seemed to me as a kid.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: They all, god spoke to all of them in dreams.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: It just seemed to me, and I'm sure it's not all, but it's pretty close.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Most of the stories that I ever remember from Sunday school or kids' church included.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Somebody had a dream and God continually, even in my years, of being confused and just having hang-ups and not really being comfortable claiming that I was following Jesus and in a relationship with him, just confused about all that.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Through my teen years I always had an active dream life and believed that I was picking up on stuff from God in my dreams.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do with it when I was 12.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do with it until I was 12.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do with it until I was in my 20s, probably Started to learn, but active dream life and I assumed God just continued to meet me in my dreams and so that developed a healthy respect for revelation for me.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: But my big hang-up was really connecting, my being able to hear God and receive revelation from Him, and Him even initiating it with me in my waking hours.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: That wasn't going to happen unless I was behaving in a holy way.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: God wasn't interested in talking to somebody who was sinning.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: To be very basic, If you're sinning, God's not interested.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: God talked to the hand.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Like no interest in even talking to you if you're continuing to sin.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, which is really interesting.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Like if you were to step back, even as a teenager that's discovering this, like even just a step back as a 30,000-foot view of your life growing up.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Here you were as a teenager, very messy, and yet the truth was that God was speaking to you while you were in that messiness, maybe some sinfulness, whatever, and the hidden stuff right.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: So you were believing, even in real time, the opposite of what was actually happening.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right of what?
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: was actually happening.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, right.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: So you were living your life in one paradigm, but yet God in his goodness, in his grace, mercy, whatever was actually demonstrating something else to you.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, I thought that was interesting.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I can see that now.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from older me I can look back and see that Mm-hmm me, I can look back and see that, but in the moment I've there was this great separation between me and god, and I know now the separation was in my mind right, right, like the separation was in my imagination.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: It wasn't real like he was, like I was.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: The separation was not from God's point of view.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'd love to love you today, but you got sinned so.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I'm nowhere around Right, because clearly he was demonstrating that yeah, right, yeah.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: But the reality was that I could have at any moment turned to him because he was literally right there moment turned to him because he was literally right there.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: But I mean, hey, let's face it, kids and teenagers, they're not going to understand that unless they've got adults around them showing them that way.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: That's good On behalf of God, saying listen, you're not kidding me at all and I see that you're acting out, but I want you to know I love you and I am present, and so is God, yep.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: And so just know that it's going to come in useful to you at some point.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: But for whatever reason that wasn't reaching me Perhaps some adults around me were trying to send that message, but anyway, so for me it was that if I were to say what was a hang-up for me and hearing god was equating hearing god means you're righteous, right, like hearing god means you're special.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Hearing god means, yeah, you shouldn't worry about right, whether or not you're, you know, out of line with god.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: If you're hearing from him, well, that's a sign that you're, that you're okay, yeah, that you've arrived and it's like ah, you know, I know, I know now, as a mature person in christ, yeah, you know it's much more substantial than that.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I understand now.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: God doesn't keep me at arm's length even in my screw-ups, right Him with him.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: My only hope is to realize he's not holding me at arm's length Like I think he is, and my thinking he is is what causes me to keep running to sin Totally Well, at least sin's close to me.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: So what was that like for you to start to begin to like?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: What do you think to move from that place as a kid and then where you are as an?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: adult.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Is there any spots in your life where you can sort of or maybe not but truths that you begin to discover or moments that you have with the Lord?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Would that begin to shift for you when you?
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Sort of came out of.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a great question.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Oh thanks, yeah, I mean that's a great question.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I would say probably a major shift for me came when I was in my first year of Bible college.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: As an 18-year-old kid really coming to grips with God, I have nowhere else to turn but you.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I felt my life at the time.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: It's amazing, right at 18, how you feel like your life's over and hopeless.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: And here I am like okay, I mean, but it was so real to me, like I a couple of years later yeah, I felt I.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I felt so lost and disconnected from my own identity.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I just felt so lost and I felt like my only option at that point was jesus and I was in this community of young adults who love to worship and love to pray together, and I had discovered community for the first time being, with all these other young adults who were just as messy as me.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And it was just dawning on me and along came a chapel speaker, dr HC Wilson, to be clear, and he preached this message on the Holy Spirit wants to move in your life and wants to move your life along.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not going to happen unless you have your sail up Right.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: And he was like you don't have to do anything except imagine yourself as your life, as this craft on the water a sailboat and the wind is there, everything's present except your sail's not up.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So if you will, in humility, make yourself available, then the Holy Spirit, the wind of the Holy Spirit, wants to come and refresh and move your life along.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And for some reason, that was a moment for me where I let go of the hang up of, I think, in desperation.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know if my sails are good enough.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I just had to throw that away and say I realize in this moment that I'm at a crossroads, like, yeah, either I have, either I raise my sale of expectancy that god is going to do immeasurably more than all I could ask or imagine, even me, and he's gonna have to figure out.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You know all.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: He'll have to figure out all of that.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: He, he knows me enough.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to take this preacher at his word and the Holy Spirit's here, and that was a shift for me.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Much more happened in that moment for me, but I would say I put my sails up, but it involved, finally, like letting go of the safety Right, being willing to walk the slack line without the safety thing, to hang, remove all of my conditions that created safety and just say, okay, from here on in, my sails are up and I guess so here, and then the prayer spills out of my heart you are stuck with me, whether you like it or not, god, and that was, I remember, that night.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: That was a shift for me and revelation really did begin to flow in big ways for me, beyond my dream life.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: it would then it began to move into god speaking to me in my devotional.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: He's speaking to me in my devotional life he's speaking to me in worship.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: He's speaking to me and I can hear him, and it moved out of my semi-conscious dream life into real life for me.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think that's really interesting, that that shift happened for you and, I imagine, right.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So would you say.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe like this would you say, the war over the lie.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: My behavior dictates whether God A likes me and talks to me would have maybe been one in that moment, and then there would have been some battles that began to shift, because I imagine it wasn't perfect even after that moment.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And I think this might be helpful for people.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: When we have these moments with the Lord where things get, we have these powerful let's call them revelations where we go like, oh, wow like aha, there's something deep that happens within you that those things kind of get decided, but there's often battles on the other side of that that actually fight over that want to still rob you of that moment.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And so would you say that maybe there was a, I don't know if you want to call it.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: You're asking amazing questions here, Anthony.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: It's all the vacation that I've had.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Would you say that maybe?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It's the war.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: War was won, but there's still battles.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: It's almost like, uh, it's almost like normandy happened, yep, right, like, or maybe that wasn't, maybe that was the deciding point, maybe of of whatever, but there's still lots of fighting to be, had after that.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe still even.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, full disclosure.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: So let's say that was, let's say that was the mid eighties, so it was the early eighties that that happened.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Sure, when that put up, the sales moment happened.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: But I would say for the next 10 or 15 years of my life I continued to have the idea that God loved me, but he didn't like me very much and I really I'm a little bit embarrassed to say this, but I really hung on to the theology of I'm not even sure I can remain his son right, or he would continue to claim me as his son right because of secret sins, right for sure.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I would keep slipping into, yeah, and I very clearly remember believing that I was in danger of being disqualified and disowned as his son because of theology I had believed as a kid.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Forget about what anybody taught me.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: It's what I believed For sure, and I know it was real in my heart that there's some expiry date on your sonship if you don't clear up unconfessed sin quick enough and I really lived with that, anthony.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I'm sure it was at least two decades after the put your sails up moment, least two decades after the put yourselves up moment, right, and and it really wasn't until, uh, like the the early to mid 90s really, through something that used to be called the third wave of the holy spirit.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Man, it's hard to know, hard enough.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Any of my listeners are my listeners, my listeners, my listeners.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Has anyone read C Peter Wagner?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it was through the Vineyard Movement and some of the hey, the opening up the playing field.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Everybody can play.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: God wants to move.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I began to get this different idea that oh God doesn't disown me as his son when I'm acting out, when I struggle, when there's this secret sin that I keep slipping into, and maybe even beginning to understand that my very thought that he's going to disown me forces actually creates the pressure in me and that drives me to sacred sin Like all of those ideas?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, I'd say.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: In the early 90s I began to grapple with that stuff and that's when the shift began to happen, right when I realized, you know, god didn't move in, revelation speaking and causing me to hear him as a reward, right, but that him speaking to me was my greatest resource, and he was speaking to me because he will never disown me.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: He's speaking to me because he's already decided.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I'm his.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: That kind of stuff.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: He's already decided, I'm his that that kind of stuff.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: And so through some of the preachers and teachers in that movement, they were sharing those messages like, uh, you know, your love for jesus is based on his passion for you.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, like.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And they began to help me to see throughout Scripture you know God's provision by loving us and providing a sacrifice, and you know God deciding first when he covenants with Abraham.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I'm all in Abraham, are you willing to be all in?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: And Abraham agreed, but it was God that went first.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: All those things that began.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And it just began to change my whole paradigm along the way.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So it was moments and conferences and times of going forward and kneeling at altars and weeping and letting go of pain, and then just some, you know, yeah, just the process of God, just so, just so patiently.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: It's the thing I would like to encourage anybody with.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how long you've been fighting this fight of thinking I don't qualify to hear God.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I just want to say first of all, compassionately, your heart has believed the lie, like you do qualify to hear God, right, because you're, because you're his creation.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how long that battle has continued, right, it's worth staying in there.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And and Jesus is fighting for you, right, and he's not impatient, he's not fed up with you, right, he is happy to keep pursuing us.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And you know right, and I would say this too like uh, first of all, I think it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: It is worth saying again, and we'll probably say it a thousand more times at least uh, how often we lose sight of the fact that our connection with God, how we hear him, how we relate to him, that's where the war is right.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: This is not neutral ground, this reality of what it is.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So there's all kinds of things that you know, rooted in the kingdom of darkness, that want to come in and distort this thing of how you know, how every human connects with here and here's God, yes, and so that's you know.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I may as well hang on this point because I can't remember the second thing I was going to say, but I think it's worth noting.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Right, like this is the story of your life, story of my life, story of every believer.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Every believer been, is, currently and at some point will continue to face pressures and challenges connected to how we hear God.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Like this is at the very core of the thing that the enemy wants to disrupt, right, if he can, like, distort this in your mind and trick you into believing that something that's not true about how God sees you, about how your behavior has been, if he can discourage you from breaking off that connection with God, then he's won.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know, then you know he's won right, like if he can trick you from breaking.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Because, again, like I think you know, as you know and I would agree with you, sort of as we move through life and as we grow and mature, we have these encounters with God.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: We begin to discover that, like you know, and sometimes it's just a hard, like feelingless choice, to believe God.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: But when you paid the price on the cross, when you tore the veil, when you took up residence in my heart, like none of that has changed.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: In this moment.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Is your blood sufficient for me?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Right, right is, if so, if it is, despite the fact that I have no feelings.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I don't.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: My heart is unmoved, and yet here I am in in a mess.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Right that I can come to you.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Not only not can I come to you, it's the very thing that you want.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, and I couldn't feel In my mess, in my mess.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: And I feel the opposite, because I feel all the shame and whatever, and so I think that's important for people to understand is that there are times and I think the Lord allows this because there are times when we again this is, we could talk a lot and probably we'll continue to talk a lot about feelings versus faith and those kinds of things there are times when the Lord allows just the decision will you stand on faith, because that's what Hebrews 11, 6, faith pleases God, but it's like will you make a decision when everything else is telling your heart one thing Will you make a decision to run to Jesus?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And again, it's like those things like that, as I've grown and matured and realized again, it's not like.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I never.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: That's where the battle is Right, but that's where the battle is.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: This is the very thing.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: This is at the very core of where the enemy wants.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: What the enemy wants to do in your life is to disrupt this connection.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: What?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: The enemy wants to do in your life is to disrupt this connection, and I think that's worth just highlighting and noting how that is.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: And I think I don't know if you want to.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe I would just throw this in on that that Jesus said if you love me, you will keep my commands Right.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of interplay in that idea, mm-hmm.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: You know it's a dance that you continue to work out with the Spirit of God, yep, like there's never a desire on the Spirit of God's part for you and him to part company, but there is a dance that happens there.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Sometimes he calls me into a deeper embrace with him by pressing on an area where my behavior is not good, right, and he'll remind me hey, you know what?
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Remember your love for me, right.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Remember the love that we share, because if you do, you won't continue down that path, right.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Or in another situation, when I ignore him and I do continue down that path and I've flat out sinned and I need to confess that and embrace his forgiveness again, he reminds me you know what?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You lost sight of our love for one another, right.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: So it's not a.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So Jesus saying if you love me, you will obey my commands.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: He is calling to something he has built into us.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: You trust the gospel, something gets planted in you.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: You're born again.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: The seed of a maturing life gets planted in you where it is your love for jesus like jesus, you know, confronts peter on the beach.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, after he had risen, after jesus had risen from the dead not peter after jesus had risen from the dead, after peter denied him three times.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: You know, like just days later, here's Jesus restoring Peter by asking him three times do you love me?
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: And I feel he's.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: He's reminding Peter.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Dude, do not lose sight of the fact that it's our love for one another, Right.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: That's going to hold you.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: It's not your big promises, it's not your zeal, it's not your grandiose yeah, you know declarations that you would take a bullet for me, right, it's?
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Hey, don't forget.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you, it's me loving you, peter, and you love me.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: That's what's going to hold you now.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Let's get busy.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Let's take care of my sheep um so anyway, just to throw that in there the yeah, the god raising way up in the values of my life.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: He will never stop loving and being attached to me.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I need to always come back to that.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: It's so good, so good, yeah, um and that opens up revelation yeah absolutely, absolutely, I, absolutely.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to throw in here too is like I'm going to sort of take a little bit of a left turn and maybe circle back to some dysfunctional things that you know, at least, that I picked up in my life from a prophetic, in a prophetic and, I think, very connected to how I view God.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: So I grew up in an environment right where.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So I grew up in a Pentecostal church and there's lots of people that still go to a Pentecostal church.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I love the Pentecostal church, but one of the things that happened to me when I was a kid is that I actually grew and I was a little more exposed than some might be to things of like it wasn't a big deal for people to speak in tongues around me, and still isn't.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a big deal for people to fall over still isn't.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that happened to me, even as it relates to prophetic ministry maybe my first really exposure to it is that there was no grid for the fact that everybody gets to play like you were saying that really sort of came to the forefront in the 90s, maybe the mid-90s or whatever, at least from my perspective, but even as a teenager.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: so this would have been you know, maybe late 80s and cracking over into the early 90s.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I really developed this idea that you know, when we had someone, usually it was like a special speaker.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: You know we would call them like a traveling evangelist back in the back of the day yeah, they would come through town and this is bigger, bigger than life, yeah, bigger than life, and then they would begin to call out things, right and yeah, and I, you know, objectively, I can't necessarily remember the things that they would call out and we would know them biblically as words of knowledge, right, okay, and probably they were all good, I don't know.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: At least to give that person the benefit of the doubt, yeah, but what I heard, you know, the thing that I started to believe, is that I was actually, I sat there as a teenager, afraid that that person, that whatever that evangelist, would turn around, look me right in the eye, call me right out, point his finger at me and go.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I know what you did, yes, right, I know what you did.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, I know what you did.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that and this is funny because I was talking- to a friend of mine, seth that he grew up with a similar experience.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, just having that latent fear that God would use prophetic ministry to publicly shame me for the mess and the sin that I was in.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought you know that's a lie right?
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: First of all, let's call out the lie that God is interested in publicly shaming you.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: That's the tool he's going to use to get you to stop sinning.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Yep Right.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: And this is what love looks like.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Right, this is what love looks like, and so?
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I thought, and again, like just back to, and I think, there they're.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I mean again lies, I mean the solution to the lies or the, the, the truth on the other side of lies is often like very linked to what we've been talking about already, but I actually had to um and it was.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: It wasn't, you know.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: It was a long time and I think before it made sense in my mind and my heart I think let's call it that where yeah, because it was really where my heart started.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I actually had to hear God talk to me through someone else.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Before I began to, my heart was convinced.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: What he sounded like, okay, right, and it wasn't the sin that he was calling out, it was hey, I'm actually going to talk to you about why I made you.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I'm going to reveal some things, some details.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to you know, and I say this, you know and talk about my journey prophetically.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: That first moment where I had a prophetic word given to me, like God began to talk to me through somebody else about things that only I was talking to him about.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Right, I hadn't talked to a soul about these things, right, and then God began to just talk through my friend, my friend Kirk.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he began to talk to me about that, kirk.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: He began to talk to me about that, and what happened in my heart was like the opposite of what that was, like what my fears were, right, even as a teenager.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, wow, and I love what you said there.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I learned to hear what he sounds like.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's really intriguing.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, we say these things.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: We don't talk about it often, but we have said things like when the Holy Spirit speaks, he sounds like Jesus, right, right.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: And so we can read take Scripture, take the written word off the page, hear the woman at the well, right, yep.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Or here the woman caught in adultery, um, here I'm talking to peter, the restoration of peter, right, we can hear him talk.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Um, in a certain we can, we can know what he sounds like based on the written word, and we can then you know again, the, the idea of, like the father's father, son, holy spirit, one, three in one that they're going to sound alike.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, right yeah, right, this.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: So there, so we know, so we know that.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: And again, like this is stuff that I had didn't figure out until you know these, these later years maybe the last 10, maybe the last 10 or 12 years.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: I began to understand that the Holy Spirit, when he talks to you, he's actually going to sound like Jesus.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful, right, and so to me— Well, that makes sense to me too, because Jesus had to help.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: At least Philip understand.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, when Philip—I think it was philip- that said to him, at least show us the father and we'll believe you have.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I been with you so long, philip, that you don't know that like at least three years here, like yeah, when you see me, you've seen the father, is it?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like when the holy spirit right it to speak.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: he's going to sound like Jesus.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I love it yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's, you know, one of the things I think.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Really I think there's this latent fear because of ignorance, right, and again, I don't know why and how, I can't tell you necessarily why that cults.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I can speculate because I think for my area of the world I was living in there wasn't a lot of grid, for this is how prophetic ministry works.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It was kind of like a little bit of a free-for-all.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Right and if there was dysfunction.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: there was dysfunction, right, right, and there was nobody who had Actually.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: No, this is actually how prophetic ministry is supposed to go, right, um, but I think that's like, again, part of that is like lies that we begin to believe um unhealthy ways, that, um, you know, again, like I, I want to have an appreciation for, for people who have come through environments where and again, I wouldn't say that the environment that I grew up in was necessarily abusive.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I would say that's not true.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But I do want to have some appreciation for people that have grown up in abusive environments, and I use that word, I think, truthfully.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: But I also want to just give some clarity.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: There's some environments where there's one person who hears from God and it's absolute, and environments like that are very challenging.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: It's hard to recover from those wounds right and it does take time when you come out and realize, wow, that was really unhealthy and they really take advantage of people's desire like out of a good place in their heart.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I want to hear God, yes, but yet they get manipulated in this way of like.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: You know this, only one person who hears God, that person hears absolutely and perfectly, every time.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Right, and they get duped into this pattern or this system, maybe this community, where this is true and that's like objectively unbiblical right.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: And yet it creates wounds.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: So I just again, I want to talk about a little bit, about just identify that, just throw that out there.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: That God's better than that.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: And God, if you're listening to this and you've come out of an environment like that, that God's mercy and his kindness are at work in your life and if you just let him, he'll begin to unpack his better way.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: He'll begin to unpack healing for you and the way that he does sound kind.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: He does sound.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: kind right, he does sound, you know, obviously, like you know, even just in my life, in your life, like God's not winking at sin, he's never approving of sin.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: He's always calling you up and out and higher and says that you know so it's not in a.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Don't confuse the kindness or the mercy that you get as an approval of like a lifestyle, but I do think that you don't need to hear harsh words to get you out of your mess right.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: You can actually hear loving mess right.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: You can actually hear loving.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, you know, uh, you know.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: The one of the lines I use is like you were made for.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: You were made for more than this, right right you can hear those kinds of things.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that will call you up and out of that you don't need to hear yeah, why do you, why can't you get it together?
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why why do?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: you?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Why do you just like yeah?
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: so was that part of what you were hearing?
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as as kirk, yeah, spoke a prophetic word.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: For sure was there some healing happening in you, as you discovered.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, that's what god sounds.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely right, and I think.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: I think it was like this it was um, it was a seismic shift right and I I describe it like there was a seismic shift right and I describe it like there was a bomb that went off inside of me.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Like it was like a you know and again I say this too, it was like an oh my God moment, right, and I say this is like in the purest, truest sense.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I was looking, I came face to face with a God who saw me, knew me and loved me, and it was like that was what you know, I can.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I know, I can remember in detail some of the things that were said, obviously, but the lasting takeaway is how I felt in that moment, seen, known and loved by.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: God in that moment, seen, known and loved by God, Just utterly, utterly changed like earth-shattering, like paradigm-shifting, Just changed the trajectory of my life anyway, Wow, but just.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: I think—.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: What a beautiful expectation for people to know that that happens.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, what are?
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: you going to find when god?
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: speaks to you.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, you're going to find a god who sees, knows you and loves right and I think that's the truth, that's the truth yeah, and so you know that.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: You know the unhealthy side is one, but the healthy side is that it is a beautiful joy and a profound thing to discover that you are seen, known and loved by God.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: And it's not that again, because it's again not to you know, beat a dead horse.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: But it's one thing to know it in your head, but for your heart to be convinced of it yeah right, absolutely right is something else and and there's still fights over that right, like again, like I had that moment a dozen years ago and there's still fights over I still have moments where I have to choose.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have to remind myself.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, hey, you know, god knows me, he loves me, he sees me, yeah, and these things are I can, I I'm invited to choose.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Right, the feelings aren't there, but I still invited to choose.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: And so I thought, uh, maybe, I don't know if there's um I don't know how we were doing for time.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I just really love that, anthony, and I know we probably do need to wrap up.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I would just like to say personally, along with you as you're sharing your testimony, that there are definitely places or ways about myself that even at my age, at this point, that even at my age, at this point, kind of in sage zone of my life, where I still have things that I say, oh, that's just the way I am.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: And God gently says to me no, that's actually the way you protect yourself and I'd love to help you with that and I let him and when I let him, it's really beautiful, like so, yes, the battle, the battle does continue and you find god is so gentle with us, yeah, so I just want to encourage anybody listening like can we just?
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: I just want to just like, before we sort of move on from this, I I do want to say like that, the only place can I say this, the only place that you will find um like life like true life for your soul, freedom, healing is actually in this place where God speaks to you.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Agreed, it's this connection, right?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we just call it intimacy, but this place where it's you and him and he's speaking to you, you're speaking to him, that's the place where transformation happens and we might.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: We hear biblically it's Moses at the burning bush, it's Jacob wrestling with the Lord, it's the angel of the Lord, which scholars would say that's the Lord, but you would say that it's the woman at the Lord, which scholars would say that's the Lord, but you would say that it's the woman at the well.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: It's like these places in our lives, these moments and encounters in our life where God comes in and he does this thing in us.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: So I just say this, I say this that's where.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: So I just say this, I say this like that's where.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Like say, if you've got, if you're struggling with, maybe there's a sin that you're struggling with right.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: You know, whether that's you know lust, whether that's anger, whether that's you know lying, cheating, any kind of like, whether that's some kind of hatred, you know all those kinds of like, whether that's some kind of hatred, you know all those kinds of things right.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Like how that changes for you, right.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: How that changes for you is in this place of connection with God, right.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right when you actually hear the kindness of God speaking to you.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: He already took the punishment.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Somebody needs to hear this.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: He already took the punishment for your sin, so why do you have a stick in your hand?
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: And so just may, in this moment, maybe there be grace for you to put the stick down, and that even right.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: There is a whole podcast right there just about dealing with just how we treat ourselves.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we've talked about it how hard we are, but I want to say that here I am tapping the table.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: There is a place.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: God has not closed the door on you.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: God has not closed the door on you.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: God has not closed the door on your life.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: He's got an open invitation, and any you know.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: He's has an open invitation come to me.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: He's paid the highest price for you to to come to him right, he's not closed the door, he's in fact opened the door.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: And you know he's.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: In fact, the door is wide open because the highest price was paid to open the door.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: He's in fact opened the door.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: In fact, the door is wide open because the highest price was paid to open the door.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: And so somebody?
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: my prayer is that we begin to we as the body of Christ for us.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: It's like that we begin to just get it settled in our heart that the only place where we can find rest, maturity, connection, holiness, love, joy, peace all the things that God wants for us is actually in this place of connection with him, where we hear him talk to us Beautiful.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: And so that's the part.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: That's why we read the Bible.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: We don't read the Bible.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: The Pharisees read the Bible, but they missed the one who wrote the Bible.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: That's why we read the Bible.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: We read the Bible so we can encounter God.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: It isn't just there's truth that we can glean from it and if we put those things into practice, yes, our lives will be better.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: But that's not the primary point.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: The primary point is to encounter the one who wrote the Bible, to encounter the author a little bit, but I think I want to drive home for people to just realize that A there's lots of things that we've, there's lots of things that you can, through no fault of your own, pick up distortions and lies of how God talks to you and will.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: He won't just your life, my life, these fears rooted in lies that really really stand in the way when they get planted in our heart, stand in the way of this connection point, yeah, yeah, and even the desire to get to this place, yeah.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, could you pray for us?
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love to Along these lines.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: That is so good and so helpful man.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah us.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, along these lines.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: That is so good and so helpful, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: So, lord, lord, we just come to you.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Lord, we just acknowledge God First.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I want to acknowledge your love, your mercy, your kindness towards us, your kids.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I just want to acknowledge, lord, that that you loved us first, like that, while we were yet sinners, christ died for us.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: And so, lord, I just say we stand on God.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: That truth, lord, that you initiated the contact with sinful people.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: You initiated the contact with people in their mess and their dysfunction.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Lord, we're all included in that number, god, and I want to acknowledge, lord, the invitation that you have established Come to me, just come to me, come to me.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I have the words of life, I am the bread of life, I am the water of life, I am light in like life, like life, and life to the full is in me.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: You're the one who said that.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: God yes.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: And so, lord, we just want to say God, I just say we, regardless of, necessarily, how we're feeling right now.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Lord, right now, we just lay down the stick, lord, we lay down the stick, lord, we lay down like open-handedly release lies.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe this is the first time we release lies that we've believed, that you're angry with us, that you can't stand being around us, that you all those kinds of things, god, everything that stands in the way of our connection with you.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: We come to you, we lay those down, we press past them.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Even we make the choice, regardless of how we're feeling, god, we press past that space into the truth that you paid the highest price.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: And so, god I pray for grace in this moment, now, for anybody listening.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: God, I pray for grace, Lord, that there would just be a transaction.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: God, that you would remove from them the heavy weight of shame the heavy weight of guilt, the heavy weight of guilt the heavy weight of performance, self-reliance, the heavy weight of religion that says I have to get myself right in order for God to like me.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: And we just pray for just that release of those heavy things.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: And we release to them the approval of the Father, the approval of the Son and the Holy Spirit, the light and the life that comes, the acceptance, the forgiveness, lord, the wholeness, god, that comes from you.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: So we just bless this moment, lord.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: I just pray for the dismantling of lies, everything that exalts itself up against the knowledge of God.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Lord, we tear it down right now in Jesus' name.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: So we bless you, we love you in Jesus' name Amen, Amen and God.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: we love what you say.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: We love what you have said, amen.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: And most of all, we love your voice saying those things to us.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Such a good thing to talk about.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Love it, man.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: This is great, great.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: See you next time.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a wrap on this episode.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: As we all learn to hear God better, If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Until next time.