Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Jordan Walker’s Second-Half Slide, Offseason Questions, Andre Pallante’s Bounce-Back Year

Transcript

Jordan Walker’s Second-Half Slide, Offseason Questions, Andre Pallante’s Bounce-Back Year · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with you and it's a media day and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: we have a good one. We have Lynn Worthy, a
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: columnist from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Lynn, how you doing today?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I'm doing all right, doing all right. Glad to be
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: with you.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: All right, we got my dog Stella barking in the background.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Nothing I could do about that at this point, so
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna soldier on. Let's talk about the Cardinals.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Last night, Not great. The Cardinals tonight in Pittsburgh, game
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: two of a three-game set. Last night, they lost two
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to nothing. Not great. But they got one hit. And
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Jared Jones, who has been pitching better lately, tip of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the cap to him. But he had a perfect game
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: going into the sixth inning until Nathan Church doubled. And Lynn,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering, what the heck is going on with the Cardinals?
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I think they're running out of gas. I think that's
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: one of the things that's going on. Get down here
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: towards the end of the season, and I think there's
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of guys who haven't played this much baseball,
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: who are still getting used to the big leagues, and
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: they're just starting to run out of gas a little bit,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: particularly offensively. I mean, you had some injuries and things
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: in there, too, but I think at this point in
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: the season, some guys are on fumes, and it's starting
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: to show.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I'm with you 100%. One of those guys may be
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Jordan Walker. So you look at his numbers since the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: All-Star break, 240 average, six homers, his OPS 671, which
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: is down like 200 points from his OPS in the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: first half. And I look at him and I see
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a tired young man. It's been a long season. Other
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: people are like, oh, he's falling into bad habits. Are
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: there concerns about Jordan Walker going forward? First, I'm going
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to say, I think it's fatigue. I think he's a
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: young guy. I'm not too worried about Jordan. How about you?
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: No, I think it's like you said, just starting to
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: get a little tired. I think you see it in the,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: even in the inconsistency in the second half, because like
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: you said, the OPS is like 200 points lower in
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: the second half, but he had a strong August too.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: I think in August he was hitting 300 and on
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: base was like three 50.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: And slugging 500.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: So it's not as though he just altogether stopped hitting and,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: you know, just fell off a cliff now in September,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: it's a different story. And I think that's fatigue. And I,
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I liken it to, and I'm sure you've had the
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: same conversation with Alec Burleson in the past. You go
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: back to that 2024 season and the second half for him,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: OPS dropped like 190 points.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: And you know, his.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: August was a little bit down and then the September
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: dropped way off. And if you talk to him that season,
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: then the aftermath of that season, What he told you
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: was he had to figure out a lot of things
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: just to keep his body ready for the full season,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: just to figure out how he could perform at the
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: late point in the season like he did in the
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: early part of the season. And this season, you're seeing
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: the difference where he's leading the major leagues in RBIs.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: So I think to me, it's just part of the
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: learning progress. It's the progression you get when you have
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: your first full season where you're playing every day and
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: you're a big part of the offense being relied on regularly.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: You got to adjust to that. Your body's got to
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: adjust to that. And it doesn't happen overnight. And so
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I look at what Burleson did, you know, 2024, how
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: it trailed off late. And I think that's what Jordan
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Walker is going through now. And that's why I think you,
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: you know, like Ollie mentioned it after one of the games.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: I think it was last week about how going through
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: some of this, they hope helps him later. I think
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: that's what we're seeing right now is just him having
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: to go through this so that later on he knows
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: how to deal with it.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: See, that's why you're great. I never say good point
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: because I'm usually doing a show with Lance Lynn and
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Kyle Gibson, sometimes holiday. But that's exactly what Burley said.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: He said, I had to learn how to get my
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: body equipped for the long haul. And maybe Jordan Walker
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: can pick up a few things from Burley on that front.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: But I will say with Jordan Walker, it's been different
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: in the second half. But let's not forget the amazing
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: season this young man has put together, let alone coming
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: back from where he was, where a lot of people
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: were ready to write that guy off. But I look at,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: he's making plays defensively in the outfield, stealing bases like the,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: and he's still really young. The Cardinals have a piece
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that they can plug in for years to come. Don't
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: you think?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: For sure. That's, that's a center center piece.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, and that's like when it was something that
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: was talked about for a while, you know, I can
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: think of all the times that Ali Marmol talked about, oh,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: you could have him and Gorman was usually the two
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: they were talking about at the time.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And you thought about what that could look like for
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: them going forward.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Now, Gorman obviously hasn't come to the same point that
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: Walker has, but now it's coming to fruition.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: This is what they talked about.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: A guy who's not just a power hitter, but a
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: guy who's a good hitter, has power, can steal bases.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: And we've seen him get better in the outfield. So
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: that's a piece that you build around. I mean, he
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: was an all-star this year, won the home run derby.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, the second part of the season has not
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: been the same as the first. But what you saw
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: in that first part and even the second part that
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: hasn't been as good is still better than what we'd
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: seen in the past for him for long stretches. That's
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: a big piece for them going forward. So Jay, do
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: you ever find yourself crashing in the afternoon, needing a boost,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: but not wanting to have caffeine that you know is
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: going to ruin your sleep?
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, definitely.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: I found myself on the golf course a lot lately.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: And sometimes, you know, it can be long days out there.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: So I reach in my golf bag. I keep the
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Ultra Focus Pouch right here with me, keep it in
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: my golf bag. And it's part of my golf bag,
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: as I said. Yeah.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And so what are some of your favorite effects of
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the Ultra Pouches?
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Definitely gives me a little bit of focus, that little
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: bit of energy that I'm looking for, and obviously not
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: having any caffeine in it is always a plus for me,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: so I enjoy those things. Ultra is the ultimate guilt-free pouch,
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: New customers can use code BASEBALL to get 15% off
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: at TakeUltra.com. That's TakeUltra.com for 15% off with code BASEBALL.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: about them. Please support our show and tell them our
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: show sent you.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Now I have my rose colored Cardinal glasses on, but
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: when I look at Leo Bernal, I see another piece
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that could be great. Just plug them in there years
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: to come because look, every young player that comes up
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: for their first taste of major league baseball has an
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: adjustment period. And we've seen a couple of little snafus
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: from him, but the way, He handles pitchers, and the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: pitchers love throwing to him, the way he can throw
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: guys out, and the way he seems to be calm
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: in big situations at the plate as a hitter really
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: impresses me. What do you think the Cardinals have in Bernal?
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: I'm very impressed by what I've seen so far. I
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: always want to pump the brakes just because it's not
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: going to stay this way the entire way. I mean,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: he's not going to be hitting game-winning home runs all
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the time, at least I don't think. He's looked really
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: impressive behind the plate. I mean, you take that game
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Sunday with the home run, throws a guy out on
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: the bases from his knees. Just a solid all-around player
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: from what we've seen so far. But he's going to
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: hit his bumps. To me, it's inevitable. You don't think
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: that you don't ever expect this to continue. You expect
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: for him to hit bumps. And if he doesn't hit bumps,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: then you consider that a bonus. That's a unicorn. But
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: he's going to hit bumps. He's going to get to
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: parts where he doesn't look good. He's going to get
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: to stretches where he struggles um i think it's also
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: you know to me the big thing that stands out
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: is for a guy like that who's as good defensively
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: as he is um to be a switch hitter so
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: he's got two different swings that he's got to stay
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: on top of that's just a lot of time and
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: effort and energy that you know you're expending on a
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: daily basis and so at some point the grind might
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: catch up with him especially since he hasn't played this
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: much like this is going to be the most games
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: he's caught and even in the minors you know because
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: he was with jimmy crooks for a while he was
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: splitting time. So I think this year, I want to
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: say it was something like 70 games that he caught
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: down there.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Before he came up here.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: So like he's the workload is going to be something
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: that they're going to have to manage going forward. I think,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think he's, he's built for it, but
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: it's still going to be something that, you know, he's
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: going to have to grow into just like we were
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: talking about with, you know, some of these other guys.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: But as far as the potential, the potential is really good.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And, you know, you mentioned that the idea that he
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: can be calm when he's up here for the first time,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: And when he first got up here, they were still
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: chasing playoffs. He gets thrown in there and nothing seems
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: to phase him. That's, I think, a really encouraging point.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So I understand it's a small sample size. And usually
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: in the comments on the YouTube, they're like, like you said,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: pump the brakes. Don't put them in the Hall of
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Fame yet. No one is. I'm just saying when I
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: look at that guy, and especially even the first few games,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: he looked a little different than most guys getting their
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: first taste of big league baseball and that really impressed
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: me and then also the fact that yadi is somehow
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: drawn to this young man because he sees some of
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: himself in that guy that's an endorsement to me and
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that kind of makes me excited about what the future
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: possibly could look like for him yeah yeah i mean
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: it's it if yadi likes him then there's got to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: be something good about him right i mean like you
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: don't you don't brush off you know yadi endorsement um
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: The other thing that I think stands out to me
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: was Ali Marmol mentioned that, you know, for him, not
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: just the.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: You know, the calmness, but I think his description was
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: he's a guy who seems to have a really good
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: feel for the big picture, not just, you know, that
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: the 10 feet around him where you get up to
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: the big leagues and you're just trying to figure out
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: what you have to do to get ready and to
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: play on a daily basis. And you're just worried about just,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: making that adjustment, but he said Bernal seemed to have
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: a really good feel for everything that's going on in
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: the game, a good feel for everything that's going on
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: around him, just an awareness that is rare for a
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: guy who's that early on, who's had no big league experience.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So again, the.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Intangible things seem to be pointing in a really good direction.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: It's just you still have the ups and downs, or
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: you're going to have the ups and downs, and you
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: hope he's able to deal with them. and still be
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: able to perform and obviously health and all that stuff.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: But it looks like you have a potential cornerstone guy
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: going forward.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I remember there's one play, and I know you remember
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: it too. It happened recently. I forget against who. But
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a batter, bases loaded, ticks the ball, and Bernal jumps out,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: drags his foot on home plate, then throws to first
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: before anyone even knew what happened. And you're like, wait,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: what just happened there? And Bernal was ahead of everybody.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: And I thought for a young guy who, as you mentioned,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: has so many things to think about. You know, he's new.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball has got to worry about the pitcher.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: It's hitting, catching and everything. Just to block everything out
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and focus on that, I wonder how many catchers would
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: have thought enough in that split second to drag their
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: foot and still make the play to first, right?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and to pull it off.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, maybe think about doing it, but do it without–
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe your foot missing the base. I mean
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the plate or dragon, but not having your hand on the.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Ball in the right time.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Cause I mean, I think they play, they replayed that maybe,
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: you know, 10 times because you look at it and
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: you go, Ooh, was that, you know, did he have
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: his foot still on the plate when he put his
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: hand on the ball and it timed up perfectly. Cause
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: you know, they would have, they would have reviewed that. Um,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: but he was on it. He was on it, not
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: just thinking it, but then carrying it out. Um, so again, he's, um,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: the awareness level seems to be high and you got
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: to like that from your catcher.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So last night's game was kind of awful, but Palante
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: was very good. Six innings, one run ball. That that's
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the good news in an age of pitch to contact
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: guys being dinosaurs. We don't like them anymore, even though
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: for a long time, that was the Cardinal way of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: raising pitchers. Palante was, has in spite of all that,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and he probably could use some more swing and miss,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I'll stipulate that, has become a very solid, dependable starter.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: And I think he's only going to get better going
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: forward because I think he's fixed a lot of his problems.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: What do you think the Cardinals have in Palante?
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: You know, I was thinking about your description there, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I think when I covered a lot of minor league baseball,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: they used to talk about guys who have pitchability, which
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: was He's not going to blow anybody away, but he
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: knows how to use his stuff.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: You know, mix, change speeds, move the ball around, all
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: that sort of stuff.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: As opposed to the guys who are just stuff guys
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: who just came at you with ridiculous velocity and, you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: breaking balls that fell off the table and just made
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: guys look stupid because they just overpowered you. Palante obviously
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: is more in the pitch ability than the stuff, even
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: though his stuff is not, it's not like he's out
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: there throwing, you know, low 90s batting practice fastballs or
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: anything like that. But it's a sign that he's a
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: guy who's a real pitcher because he doesn't just go
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: out there and try and strike guys out. He's got
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: to be able to pitch to contact. He's got to
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: be able to execute. He's got to be able to
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: pitch to certain areas. And he's gotten better. I mean,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: you think about a couple years ago when he was
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: making a transition from the bullpen to the starting rotation
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: and he had ups and downs with finish strong. And
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: then last year, You know, put him in that Jordan
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Walker category where at the end of last year, people
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: were ready to give up on him. People were ready to,
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: you know, count him out of the rotation altogether last offseason.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: And now he's the guy who's been basically the rock
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: of the rotation as far as wins, innings, things like that. Yeah,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: he's he's a guy who's shown that he is able
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: to adapt and to get better.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: And to add things to his repertoire.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Last offseason, they had a list of things that said,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: if you're going to be a starting pitcher, you need
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to be able to do these things on a regular basis.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: And he's come back this year and shown that he
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: can do that. So that's a big thing in terms of,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: you know, for their player development department, for the pitching department,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: for Palante individually, and also something that, you know, he
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: can be a voice for some of these other guys
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: who are still trying to find their way or, you know,
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: have had their struggles and be an example, and also
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: proof that for the pitching department that they can get
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: that done with a guy like him. It's only, you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: what do you want to call it, proof of concept
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: or just, you know, more confidence that they can do
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: things with other guys going forward who are going to
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: have to make similar adjustments.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's no question that they've done a great job with Palante.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Tip of the cap to him because he was the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: guy that said, you can send me down and let
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: me get back to starting because I know I can
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: do it. Last year was not great, and he came
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: back even stronger. But that's a young guy, I think,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: that I believe going forward. You're going to have bad
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: starts with a pitch-to-contact guy, right? Balls are going to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: squeak through the infield and everything. And I think we
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: used to see him unravel a little bit when that happened,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and we don't see that anymore with Palante. So he's
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: getting more mature, and I think the best is yet
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to come from Palante. Hopefully, anyway.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a combination of more mature and
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: just having better answers. Like I think it was late
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: last season one time where he said, I'm paraphrasing, but
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: something along the lines of he got into certain situations
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: and he was just trapped because he didn't have stuff
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: to go to to get certain guys and they would
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: just eliminate stuff and he was just stuck. And then
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: this offseason worked on some things to give him some
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: more answers. So between that, being more mature, having more experience...
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: this is what you get. And again, those things don't
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: happen overnight. So when people want to point to a
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: guy who's struggling and say, get them out of here,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: we need somebody new in there. This is sort of what,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: you know, whether you want to call it runway, staying
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: the course, believing in guys, whatever it is, you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: coaching guys up. All of that is what you got,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: what you needed to get to this point for Palante.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: And again, Does it work for everybody? No, but that's
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: why they want to give guys chances. They want to
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: work with guys because this can be the outcome. It's
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: not guaranteed, but it can be the outcome for some guys.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about a young guy who's starting that runway,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Quinn Matthews. Eight big league starts. I think he's had
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: one where he's given up more than three runs. Still
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: some walks in there. That has been a bugaboo for him.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But what have you seen from Quinn Matthews? Because so far,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: so good, looks like.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's interesting.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: You know, I wrote about him last week just because
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: he's got an interesting way he approaches things. Still talking
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: about the big leagues isn't realistic. And we're sitting there
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: in front of his locker like you realize you're in
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the big league. Right. So at some point it became realistic.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: And he's like, no, no, not really. You know, it's
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: still it's still I'm not supposed to be here. And
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: it's one of those things that kind of cuts both
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: ways because he's got that. I'm not supposed to be here.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: So it's a chip on his shoulder. But I think
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: the I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not one
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: of those guys who just excels at this, that, or
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: the third. Sometimes hinders him because he's a little too
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: harsh on himself. And I think Ollie talked about this
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: and a couple other people have sort of mentioned that
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: he can be so self-critical that it almost hurts him
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: because it's not in a productive way. And that's what
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: they're working with, I think. That's what they're trying to
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: find or they're finding out and then realizing they have
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: to work with him on now is for him to
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: be Self-critical is fine, but to put that into an
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: action plan that helps you improve and make the fixes
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: that you need to make, not just sort of beat
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: yourself down. Obviously, he's got talent. Last year was a
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: bumpy year in terms of injuries and inconsistency and command issues,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: but he got through that. Ideally, when a guy has
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: that sort of issue in the minors, you hope it
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: only helps him to be able to fix things and
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: figure things out when he gets to the big leagues.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: And he's just getting started with that.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Another guy that could use a fix or two is Libby.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: And I always say on this program, it could be
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: called Libby territory because we all like Libby. Great guy,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: but he's had a rough year. Last start was good.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Six innings, one run against the Giants. A lot of
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: people saying he was better in the bullpen. That's probably
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: where he belongs now. Cardinals are just putting him back
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: out there. And I got to say, for the record,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Lance Lynn, Kyle Gibson, and Dorsett, they're like, look, season's over.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: They've been eliminated. You keep pumping that guy out there
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: because he will get it. Where do you see the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: future for Libby? Will we see him back in the bullpen,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: or will they put him in the lab again and
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: figure things out for him like they did with Palante?
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: And then, lo and behold, Libby is excelling as a starter.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: What do you see?
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it's good to know that, you know,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Lance and Gibby have been reading the post-dispatch, you know,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: because I told folks that you can't give up on
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Libby so quickly. I mean, well, one, you couldn't give
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: up on him because you didn't have that many options
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: this year. You've got to get through the season, so
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: you need the liberator. But aside from that, you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: the comparison that I think hopeful Cardinals fans would want
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: to make would be, you look at Palante at the
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: end of last year and people were ready to get
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: him on the first thing, smoking out of town and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: away from the rotation. And we just talked about how
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: big he has been for them. Um, can Libby do
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: that again? It's not a guarantee. Um, but you know,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: with adjustments with, you know, uh, some, you know, uh,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: some finer, you know, tweaks. Um, I think they have
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: an idea of the things that he.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Needs to work on.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: It's just a matter of doing it consistently and being
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: able to show that he can, um, do that and
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: switch some, some mindset things, sequencing, things like that too.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: But the other thing that stands out to me is
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: people who want to just give up on them all
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: together and say, Oh, in the bullpen one, some of
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: those are the same people who are ready to say
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: that after like five starts of Kyle Leahy this season.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And then they stopped saying that.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: But two, you're not accounting for having a guy who's
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: at least pitched innings, who's pitched full season in the
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: big leagues. And you don't have that many of those guys.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: So it's easy to say, oh, I'll just give it
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: to one of the young guys. But the list of
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: guys who either have been hurt, are hurt, probably won't
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: be ready for a full workload if you were trying
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: to pencil them in as a starter at the beginning
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: of the next season. Like take out Richard Fitz, Cooper Jerby,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Dakota Roby, Hunter Dobbins. Like all of them are either
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: coming off injury or are injured. Probably I don't know
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: that you can pencil them in as starters from day
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: one next season to be able to go throughout a
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: major league season. So you take them off the table,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: and then you're going to say, well, we don't need
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Libby as a starter or even as an option to start?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: To me, that's crazy.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: And then you're talking about Quinn Matthews, who, you know,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: making the adjustment, and he's got more innings under his
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: belt than.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Some of these other guys, but he hasn't pitched a
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: full season in the big leagues.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: So you think you can take Libby off the table,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: put him in the bullpen, take him out of the
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: equation altogether, and you got enough pitching?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I disagree.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, when the Cardinals still have the Pirates and the
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Brewers to deal with, but they've been eliminated. So I
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: think it's fair to start looking ahead. And one of
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: the things I think Haim Bloom deserves a lot of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: credit for is he has stocked the minor leagues with
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: potential guys that could help the ball club in the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: not too distant future, controllable talent, and not just one
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: or two guys. He got a whole arsenal down there.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: But we also found out some stuff about the talent
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: on the ball club as it stands right now. So
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about a couple positions, how
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you think it's going to go in the future. And
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I will stipulate that we don't know what deals are coming.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: We don't know exactly what's ahead. But I'm going to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: ask you about third base. Blaze Jordan hurt. I think
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: he did a lot of things well. I think he's
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: better defensively than a lot of people gave him credit for.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I also think he's got the kind of bat that
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: has a little power, but he's also the kind of
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: player that can go the other way and use the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: whole field. He's one of the guys I think. So
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: JC is a possibility. Certainly guys in the minors. So
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: flash forward, uh, opening day next season. Who do you
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: think is going to be at third base for the Cardinals?
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Who do I think?
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Uh, if I'm sitting here right now, I think there's
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a good chance that it's somebody like Thomas to JC.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I guess that's where I would bet.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: If I had to bet today, uh, And if you
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: ask me, you didn't ask me, but I'm answering anyway,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: what would I like for next season starting third baseman
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: to be? I'd like it to be somebody who's not
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: in the organization right now. I'd like them to go
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: out and find somebody who they can put in there
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: who helps give them at least just a higher floor
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: with their big league club. I say that for that spot,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: to a certain extent, I think I put center field
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: in that position. same boat just because I feel like
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: those two spots they had just a very big lag
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: in terms of offensive production and I think if you
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: can do something to bolster those two spots next year
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: then you can give yourself a chance of being in
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: contention throughout the season and still have the group that's
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: coming behind like I just don't like the idea that
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: you're just only going to be talking about the group
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: that's coming behind and that When they get here, when
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: they get here, when these guys get here, well, then
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: when they get here, you're going to be talking about
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: them in the same way we're talking about some of
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: these guys who will have to go through an adjustment
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: period and have to get used to and have to grow.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I'd rather them be able to bolster the team next
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: season with guys who can play and produce next season,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: still have those guys coming, and try to win next
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: season and then have options, whether that means options as
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: far as trading guys, options as far as being able
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: to move guys around, and then you have guys coming
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: behind them, that's, to me, ideal. Of course, it's easy
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: for me to sit here and say right now, but
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: at the same time, that's why there's a whole scouting department,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: player acquisition department, guys who that is, what they do,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: what their focus is throughout the season.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, to me, third base, I know I'm going
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: off track a little bit here, but third base.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Um, if I was the bet right now, Thomas to JC,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: if I'm saying what I hope happens, I hope it's
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: somebody off the, um, off the, uh, table right now.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: And then in the future, another question you didn't ask,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: but I'm just answering all the questions you didn't ask
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: in the future.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I think that's Jesus.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Baez is the one that potentially fills that spot long-term,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: but again, I'm not counseling him in next year.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: No, I agree. And, uh, our job is speculation, pure speculation.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: That's why we're here. Um, So I was going to
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: ask you about center field anyway. You know, Nathan Church
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: to me is interesting because he has gotten more patient
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: at the plate. He seems to be more comfortable in
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: center field. Defensively, as you know, he was rated, you know,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the best defensive outfielder in the organization. I get that.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I like the way he plays defensively. There's an air
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: of recklessness to it, but I think he's maturing. You
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: think it's a long shot to say that– Church is
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: going to be in center field opening day next year.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's a long shot to say it.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I think that's probably more probable than not that he's
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: there to start next season. I just would like, like
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: to me, all the things you said, you know, like
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: he's gotten better with his plate discipline. He's, he's given
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: you a great defensive center fielder. And to me, if he's,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: sort of your fourth outfielder, that's even better because that
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: means you've got somebody else you can play out there.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Who's going to give you some more production consistently while
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: church is still sort of finding himself offensively in the
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: big leagues.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: And I think he, at some.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Point, I know it's easy to say, or probably easier
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: if he had runway and you just let him go
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: and say, all right, he's going to figure it out
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: with the runway. But again, if the team is going
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: to be able to really make a push at contending
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: next season, it, at some point it's not guys developing,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: hoping for improvement. Like the improvement can't just be guys
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: getting better from year to year. It's got to be
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: them bringing in some more talent to raise the floor.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: And you're not just waiting for next guys. Cause I mean,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: whether it's Josiah Ragsdale or Ty Pete or whoever it
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: is that you want to say might be the next guy. Again,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: they're not ready next year. They're not penciled in for
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: opening day. So if there's somebody you can add from outside,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: it's not going to cost you an arm and a
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: leg in terms of prospects because then you bolster the
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: team for next year and you have depth and you
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: have options. That's ideal to me. But that's not to
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: say that Nathan Church has not made great strides or
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: that he's not a candidate to be their center fielder.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: And even if you bring somebody out from outside, at
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: some point over the course of the baseball season, Church
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: would still probably be out there at some point too.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: So again, it's not against Nathan Church. It's just about
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: making the overall team deeper and better in my eyes,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: but I think there is a good chance that he's
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: the person out there at the start next season.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Look, I think the points you make are fair and rational,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and that's what we try to be. Lynn, thanks for
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: dropping some knowledge on us. You're always a great guest.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Hopefully that episode won't suck.