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How to Grow and Scale a Business Successfully · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Today I am delighted to be chatting with Claire Findlay going to be having a bit of a business 101, and Claire is going to be giving her top tips on how to grow and scale a business without external funding, which I am really excited to hear about, and also talking about Claire's experience of growing a business, scaling the business whilst being a mum to two small children.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, claire, for joining me today.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I'm really really excited to chat small children.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, claire, for joining me today.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I'm really really excited to chat with you.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me and I'm excited about being here, so I'm very excited to chat.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So what prompted you to want to start business?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Were you, did you always want to be an entrepreneur?
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: No, and I think it's probably worth, you know, going back to where I started my journey, if you like, and I always describe myself as having a spectacularly mediocre education, and it really was.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And and I think when I look back on that time, it was because I was, you know, a good girl.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Look back on that time, it was because I was, you know, a good girl and I sort of bobbed around the middle of the class and I wasn't expected to do much and I I had some, you know, a career guidance, as we all did, as we were, you know, coming up to leaving secondary school, and it was very much that I was pitched that I would be a nurse.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Now, my mother was a nurse and if I said today, you know, the advice that I was given was being a nurse, she would, she would say I can't think of a worse person.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I hate people around me who are sick and inspired by my mum, because I never felt that being at home all of the time, which is what you did then the satisfaction.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: She was bored.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: In reality, she was bored.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, she was a great mum, mum, but you know chasing around the garden, you know playing football and doing all of those things was, you know, not really um her, her bag, um, and I think you know, having to give up work, um, I think she felt that she was missing out and did she retrain then to become a nurse?
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: no, she, she was just less nursing them yeah, she left nursing and then, you know, as we got, there were three of us, three daughters, and as we got a bit older she was able to get a job in the evening in a nursing home, that kind of fitted around my dad's work.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Everything was about, and I think that's what's changing a bit in the workplace.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes on, but it was all about you know, how did my mum fit her career, you know?
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And she was a career woman and eventually she went back into nursing in a very full-on way and worked until she was in her late 60s.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So that really demonstrated to me that, you know, being at home wasn't really for her.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And I think financially, you know, we were, just we weren't on the bread line, but life was a struggle, um, and that instilled in me an absolute desire to be independent, and financially independent, and so you know I get you on this because then I'm thinking about now.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: You know, my mum gave up her job when she had me.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Being honest, she hadn't had a big career.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Before she had me she'd worked um in the tourist information centre in the town where we grew up.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I think you know.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I think she enjoyed it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: She gave it up and she didn't go back to work until my brother was nine and there's so about four or five years between me and my brother, so it's like a 15, nearly a 15 year break, and I remember her ironing my dad's shirts for work on a Sunday night so he would be, all you know, having the tea ready when he got back.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: And actually also there was quite a lot of resentment about money when we grew up yeah he would give my, my mum, housekeeping money and she wasn't independent.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: No, and I think that is is the biggest thing in my mind and I I think that's what drove my, you know, my desire to be um financially independent.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I just didn't want that concept for myself of being given pocket money really given pocket money and my mum had a book that she would write down, literally you know, what had come in every single penny that went out, and that's what I mean about.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I think financially, life was a struggle and that is tough as well, isn't it for for for women to have to deal with and worrying about?
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Can I afford to, you know?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: You know, put a decent meal on the table and let alone treat yourself to anything.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah yeah, and now what gives me absolute joy is seeing my mother goes to Marks and Spencer's and I might meet her there and she'll say to me I don't need that.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: And I say, buy it, mum, because she doesn't need it.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: She doesn't need another blue top, for goodness sake.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: But you know she, she could never have it and and and now she can, in her retirement, you know she can, she can buy a blue.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: So, and I think, buy as many blue tops as you want, because you can, because I remember the day when she really couldn't.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So that's, you know, it's really great to you know, to be able to see that.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: So I think you know, with my background, you know, not a great education, not much encouragement, um, seeing my mum, you know, I did have this kind of thing.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: If I want something I'm going to have to work for it.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: So always had Saturday jobs in the age of about 15 and I did everything, you know, worked in a flower shop, I washed hair, but I loved having money, you know, and I, you know, I I remember wanting to buy a black skirt from Topshop or Chelsea Girl or somewhere like that.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I had to save for it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: My mum couldn't give me the money.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But when I bought it, it just gave me such, you know, thrill.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it gave me a real thrill.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So I think, with all of that, I chose not to go to university and it gave me at the time, and for a few years after, a real chip on my shoulder, because most of my friends did go to university, did go to university, and I always felt as if I was the, you know the person that clearly wasn't clever enough to go, and and so on, and I, I carried that with me for a very, very long time.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Um, I I don't have an issue with it now, but it was always there for me.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Um, but I met a person um called Sue, who worked in the IT industry, and I said to her one day what do you do?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And she said, oh, I go and see customers and or prospective customers for my company and I demonstrate all these software packages and and she's I said, but you've got that lovely company car.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And she said, yeah, I've got that company car.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: And I then decided I was going to be one of those MSRs marketing support rep, that's what it was called.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, really Is that like a sales job?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was yeah, but we would support the salespeople.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: So the salespeople weren't the big bucks.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: We kind of learnt.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: You know how the software worked and we would, you know, we would demonstrate that you know, demonstrate you know how the software worked and we would, you know, we would demonstrate those that you know.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Demonstrate you know, alongside the salespeople.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: But I got my car and I was beyond thrilled.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I thought, you know, I've absolutely, I've absolutely made it.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: But that was my first, if you like, tiptoe into the technology industry and to get that job.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I mean I thank the guy that gave it to me because I begged for the job and said I promise yeah, but you've got no experience.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I know I've got no experience, but please take a risk, please take a risk.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: And he did.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I got my company car.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I worked really hard for him and that's really that.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: That's what really kicked off my, my career.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And my first real break came when I worked for a company called Pacific when I was about 26.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: So I was, I was pretty young.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I had a fantastic boss who really believed in me, even when I didn't believe in myself, and he at that time decided to take a back seat and he said to me I want you know, you, you can run this business, um, and on reflection and in fact I've thought about it a lot since I was pretty clueless, um, but, but you know, he gave me the opportunity and I had to learn, and I and I had to learn fast.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: But that was my first real feeling of imposter syndrome, which we didn't even know what imposter syndrome was then.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: But I did, in my imposter syndrome look like for me at the time I can't do this.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Where do?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I start Feeling out your depth.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I felt totally out of my depth and literally I would.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: He would meet with me once a month.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: He trusted me implicitly.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: So he didn't leave you that often, really once a month.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: No, so, but that was my first thought I can't do this on my own.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I just haven't got, you know, the people management experience, the financial management experience, management experience.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: So that's where I learned that was my first lesson, um, about building a team and having a team.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: That was what we call diverse, and, and they were all older than me, um, but they were supportive and you know, so many of them gave me great advice, guidance.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: They probably went home and said to their, you know, to their, to their partners, she's hopeless, she doesn't know what she's doing.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: But it was a baptism of fire and, you know, after two or three years, I thought, you know, I'm probably, I'm probably pretty good at this, you know, do you?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: take that long, do you think, to get over your imposter syndrome?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think it did.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I always dipped in and out of it during that role, depending what was what was going on.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: But you know, I I sort of learned to just think here's all the things that I'm really good at and really embraced the rest of the team in in you know, and lent on them, um, to let them it was good you were given the autonomy to hire this team.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I know and some of them are inherited by the way.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: So and that's tough I was gonna say because there'll be a lot of people that are listening to this, that have inherited teams how do you or maybe you're hiring someone who's, like you said, that's older than you how do you you know, I guess get their respect, bring them along with you?
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Um, it's still that sense of loyalty with the team maybe you've inherited that may be resentful of that yeah, I think for me, um, it's about being open, um, honest, transparent, um.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I always remember, um making a decision to do something.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: And my team said to me we don't think you're making the right decision, but I really felt strongly that I was making the right decision and and I got it wrong.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: And I think and I've worked for people like this, where, you know, they blame everybody but themselves but I went back to the team and I said you know, I know I said that we should turn right and you told me that that that was the wrong decision.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: But I really felt in my gut that we were doing the right thing.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Well, turning right was the wrong thing and I'm sorry, so now we're going to turn left.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And somebody came up to me afterwards and said to me do you know?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: You know that was a really brave thing to do, to say, look, I've messed up, I made a decision.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: But actually what he said to me was but you made a decision and we've worked with so many people that don't make a decision, so you know he turned for me a real negative into you know my decision making capability, into you made a decision.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Now, it was the wrong one, but you made one, so let's, let's move on, yeah, and so for me going, you know, I think it's about being open, being transparent, being honest and being honest about you know where where your weaknesses are, and you know saying to those people but you know, I know you're, you're brilliant at this, so, you know, can you help me or can you show me?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And I think you know that's today.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: We would even, even then, we would say you know, that's a way of empowering people yeah, absolutely, they felt they felt trusted, and so you know that whole thing about openness and trust, and I know we talk about it, but I believe it.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: You know so strongly that that's incredibly important, wow, so on, whilst one of the things I wanted to touch on while I chatted with you was, although that was a great job, whilst running that business I got pregnant.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't really planned, but it took me absolutely months to pluck up the courage to tell that very same supportive boss.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the nice person, yeah, yeah nice guy.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: um, mike, I'm pregnant and I still remember to this day where we were when I told him I think I must have been about six months pregnant because I'm quite small, so, uh, luckily so, um, you know, I didn't show that much and before I told him I apologized.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I said I've got something that much.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: And before I told him I apologized, I said I've got something to tell you.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: And before I tell you, I'm really sorry.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: And I remember his face, which was one of absolute horror, because I know what would have been going through his head is I need to say positive things to Claire, but I don't think I can, because what's going to happen to my business Ultimately, what was going to happen to him?
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: So you were running his business on his behalf, really?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, so.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So I said and I still remember what he said to me I said look, you know, because I was apologizing profusely about being pregnant and he said you know how you get apologizing profusely about you know pregnant?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And he said you know how you get pregnant, don't you?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Um, and you know which was?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: It wasn't really tongue-in-cheek, it was just one of you know, what are we, what are we going to do now?
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: so, um, so, so that was a I think did that change the relationship then after that, I think it did it did change the relationship then after that, I think it did.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: It did change the relationship because, also, you know, being in the workplace as a pregnant woman, rather than you know somebody that you know was you know as my, you know my uniform that I put on and I'm Claire the business, the business person now, and I and I think it did, it did.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: It did change the dynamic a bit and I just said to him you know, I'll come back to work, I'll have the baby I'll, you know, I'll be back really quickly and and and in in.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: At that time, um, women maternity leave.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: We were only entitled to 14 weeks of maternity, so you know a lot, not long, yeah, not long at all, yeah, not not long.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And you know people, women at that time, didn't dare take that four months.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Um, you know it was seen as fantastic if you could have a, you know, c-section and be back at your desk the next day, which is ridiculous, so, but I did go back, um, and it was tough.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I found it really tough and I could afford child care.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I was very lucky that I I had good, uh, childcare.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Um, my husband was really supportive did you get a nanny or?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: yeah, so I got a nanny.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: So I was very lucky and I kept that nanny for, you know, for many years and but you know that I I was, I was very fortunate to be able to afford to do that, so, but I went back to work far too quickly yeah that's one of the, the lessons that I I would say to women today, which is, you know, enjoy that time because you don't get it back to you and it's very hard and I know it's hard to say that, but you don't get it back you really don't get it, get it back.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and I think what you know we tried to do is, you know, I had my gorgeous son, who I, you know I absolutely adored.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: But you know, if I can summarize how I felt in one word, it was guilty, because there was a big movement at the time which was women can have it all, but women can't have it all.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's incredibly difficult because what you know, this having it all description is you know the employer doesn't suffer.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the baby doesn't, because, of course, you're going to make sure that your baby is looked after and loved and all of those things.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: It is the person that's had the child.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: It is the person that is literally trying to balance you know, working and doing a fantastic job and not mentioning that you've got a child, because you know that really didn't get mentioned, that you've got a child, because you know that really didn't get mentioned, um, and you know, trying to balance that with being a fantastic mom, and all I remember from that time is total and complete exhaustion.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I would.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: It's all that pressure isn't.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: It's a lot.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of pressure now.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: My children are at school and so and I still feel that pressure, and so I can't imagine what it would have felt like with a 14 week old going back to work full-time.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it was just, you know it, it was horrible.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Um, so you know, I, I think you know one of the things that you know.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Another lesson that we need to think about is you know, having it all doesn't mean doing it all yeah so and we, I think we try and do it all.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: So you know, and I always I love meeting women and seeing women on their journey.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: But you know, and I always say to them remember, you know, we're incredible women, not Wonder Woman.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I do have you know, countless stories of you know, when my first son went to school and you know you want to be at the school gates and you know I've got loads of stories of you know, with both of my boys of staying up baking cakes in the middle of the night because I absolutely was going to have 12 perfect cupcakes going to the school for the cake sale.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Um, and you know, um, one of my sort of funniest moments now was I wasn't very good at making things.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I was a great cook but I couldn't make costumes.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: As an example, and you know, book day was my, my idea of a nightmare until three o'clock in the morning making my son a firework outfit and I, when he came down in the morning, I know he hated it from the second he saw it, um, but the most hilarious thing was I'd glued things onto the legs of these and the glue had sunk through and stuck the legs of the trousers together so he couldn't get his legs inside.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So I mean, but you know, if I look at that now, on a really serious point, what I should have done was said look, said to another working mum I'm really good at cooking, you're not so good, I'll do all the cakes you you do the dressing up outfits.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you want, just buy them, just buy them amazon prime, exactly.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: But we wanted to feel like you know that we were, we were doing it all and we were, you know, and our outfit was the best and cakes were great, and so on.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It sounds exhausting.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: So what prompted you then to start up your own business?
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: well, um, I had, you know, following that whole whole experience, and, by the way, when I uh and I can't remember if I said this, um, so you'll have to cut it out if I did um was that I went once I'd had, you know, my son, josh, uh, we, I went back to work and we sold the business and, oh, your boss sold the business, yeah, so well, we sold it for him, um, and so I went to, I stayed in tech, um, and you know I I worked all the way through, you know, having my, my children, I was never out of work.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And then I I got my first job in uh corporate world and I was the only female on the senior leadership team in a predominantly male environment, and you know to, to kind of tell you how, what that looked like.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: You know, it took them ages to decide to hire me because, uh, as a female, I was seen as a risk, um, and it wasn't that long ago, that's the frightening thing, those people that made that decision were agonizing over that decision are probably still employed.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Some of them, yes, oh they were they, they are, and in the end, it was me that said look, you know, you've seen my cb, you've got references, you know what I've done, um, so make a decision.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: You know, I, I, I owned the agenda in the end and just said yes or no, um, and in the end, you know, they said yes and that was a that.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: That was probably my toughest job ever, because I was driving a culture change, organizational change and you felt that they hadn't quite wanted you at the beginning as well.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: So, um, you know, and I had all that we don't do it like that here and that stuff, but again, you know a fantastic, you know experience.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And going back to that whole team thing and how that was the first thing I did is I got there and just thought, you know, this is a mess, but you know, I put a really great team together and you know, you know the culture change, organizational change, what we were doing as a business.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: You know, we changed everything as a team and made it happen.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: And I had my second child there.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: So I got quite a big age gap between my two children, six years and because there never seemed to be a right time to have that second child, and, and you know I'm happy to admit that and so while I, while I was in this corporate organization, you know driving, as I say, in the toughest job I've ever had, rewarding, but tough I have my second son, ben, and they were looking for a new MD and I applied, I was the only internal candidate and I didn't get the job.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And I applied, I was the only internal candidate and I didn't get the job.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Um, and you know, I, I, and when I saw the guy that had got the job.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I realized why I got the job because he had the look and feel of yeah because he was a man, maybe, and the look and feel of the of my counterparts, you know, on the on the senior leadership team.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So, and when I was interviewed, um, I, and when I got the feedback afterwards and and and you know we, we have to own things.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So you know, I, my view is that I didn't do a good enough job to at the interview, to convince, you know them, that I, I could be their their UK MD, um, and but the feedback that I got was that you know you've just had another baby, you know we're not sure that you can cope, so but I said, but I've got one baby already and you know I've got all of those things, but I just, I just backed off at that point because you know there was just what's quite frightening is that they've said that to you openly.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: But I wonder, even if now those conversations are still going on behind closed doors and they wouldn't say openly and they couldn't be allowed to say openly, but that's not to say those conversations aren't happening, is that?
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I think those conversations absolutely happen.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Um, they, they, they absolutely will be happening.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: You know, we can't hire her because she's about 25, 30, she might have a baby.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: You know, those conversations go on and you know, we, as women, we, you know, we have to recognize that.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: So, so, yeah, so I think that the differences and you just said it is that, whilst I was told that to my face and you're right, not, it wasn't that long ago, um, that just couldn't be said today in in an open, in an open forum.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: So, but what's even more disappointing, because if you think about, you know, by now I've got, you know, a lot of experience.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I know how to run businesses.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And when the guy that got the job, you know, started, I said to him look, you know, you know I went for the job.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You know, it was just, it was the elephant in the room.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: So I said look, you know, I went for the job.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: He said yes.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: So I said I didn't get it because, you know, and the best man got the job.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: So I said I've got a great reputation here, I've worked really hard for it and it's it's, you know, I'm office-based, it's not that far from where I live, you know, so this works for me.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I will do whatever job you want me to do.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But from the second I met him I knew he didn't want me there.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Why didn't he want me there?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: He didn't want me there because I had a good reputation yeah, you're probably better than him.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, and I guess you know he felt threatened or whatever.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: But I really honestly, liz, I meant that from my heart.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, by then rationalized look, you know I, I can do this job now.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I've done the tough bit.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: So you know, stay.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And he did not want me there.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Um, and and that was really obvious, so I was, you know, meetings started to happen when I wasn't around and it was horrible, horrible and, luckily for me, two people that worked in, two fantastic guys that worked in my business, came to me and said we're thinking of leaving and starting something and we'd love you to join us as the MD to lead the business.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And I said, of course, I said I can't possibly have this conversation with you here because I was in the office.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So we met a couple of days later in the evening and we had no idea what we were going to do, but we had one key goal and that was to build a profitable business and sell it, and we never deviated from that.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: We wanted to do it and for me, so what was the drive then that made you?
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I love this.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I love that you're quite focused.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: You knew what you wanted to do and you did it, but that's you know.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: A lot of people build a business without actually that end goal in mind that they're going to sell it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: What?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: And that's quite interesting.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: What was the driver?
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: well for me.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: For me it was because I had not got the last big job, so we had.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: The three of us had different reasons, okay, so, um, the three of us, you know, when we chatted we had different reasons about why.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And for me, being overlooked for promotion was that was my.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I'll show you.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I like that because I was made redundant and I was similar.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: It was that I'll show you.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I'll make you regret that decision.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I know, I know.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so it was that.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I make no secret of that.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: That was absolutely and you know we were going to and you know it was.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It was a roller coaster of a journey and we did get some funding into that.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: That that business.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: We needed it and we'd all come from a big company and so when we went to the bank to, we wanted a government startup loan.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: So you had to go and chat with the bank and we went along to see uh, the uh, the bank in Reading at the time that happened to be part of this scheme and we were suited and we were booted and you know, if anything, we were over prepared because we sat down with this guy and he said the first question he asked and I.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: So this is, you know, another lesson 101.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: When you start a business, be absolutely clear of your goal.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Is it to build and sell?
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Is it to build and make lots of money?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Is it to is it a lifestyle business which, as you know, I've gone on to to build, you know this time round business which, as you know, I've gone on to build, you know this time round.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: But we said to him, you know he said what?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: What do you want to do with this business?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And we said we want to build a business that is profitable and sell it.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And he said fantastic.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Because he said I can't tell you how many people I have sitting where you're sitting.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: And they say, you know, oh well, I want to start a restaurant.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Why do you want to start a restaurant?
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Well, I went out for dinner on Saturday night and had a fabulous meal, and now you want to start a restaurant.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: And he was he was exaggerating for the same event for the sake of emphasis.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: But you know, I got completely.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: You know what.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Know what he said?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: He said be clear of your goal.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: And he said you three are.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And he said and don't deviate from that.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: So, and we didn't.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And we went uh, we said that we would sell it within five years.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: It took us seven years because, you know, we went through the financial crash of 2008.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: What was the business doing?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: A tech business.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: So we built what would be called an app.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so Was it just you three, or did you hire people?
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: No, we hired lots of people.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: We had hired lots of fantastic people and, in fact, one, andreas, I work with today and we built um the business that I'm in today.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So we, we just had, you know, a fantastic, uh, team of people.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I I just I loved my time there.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I I loved the people, I loved what we were doing.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: We had fantastic talk about punch above our weight, you know, I mean we were so did you use the funding that you first got initially to hire those people then?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: yes, we did.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, we built a side business, actually lead generation, which we do today as part of purple um, we built that and that cash, um, you know, kept us, kept us, us trading.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: But you know, we were, you know we were punching above our weight all of the time.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: We were talking to global technology companies about what we were doing.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And I have a you know, quite a funny story that you know, if I told him now he would, he would laugh about it.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: But he was in a large tech company and he rang me and he said, claire, really like what you're doing.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: He'd worked with me before and he said, really love what you're doing.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: He, he'd worked with me before and he said really love what you're doing.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: He said I'd like to come and visit your offices.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: And I said, yeah, that's absolutely fine.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Panicking like mad, thinking you know, we've got this tiny serviced office in southwest London.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: He's going to come down from West Yorkshire, as he was based.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: He's going to come down and he's, you know, going to see that we're this tiny company.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: So, but you know, we were always thinking outside the box.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: So we went to the people that owned the, the serviced office, and said we need to rent 10 offices for a day.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And so we we did, and we got all of these students, friends of friends, you know, uh couldn't afford to pay them, but we gave them, you know, vouchers um, you know, 50 pounds of vouchers or whatever each to be there.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: And we told them, when this guy turns up, you need to be on the phone and look like you're busy and look like you're talking about sensible, clever things and talk about wing it.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: And we did, and the guy said this is a very impressive operation.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: You've got here, you know, love it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Really happy.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I feel I can go back to the board now and say that you know, although you're a new company, you know you've got got it together.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: How do you get a business in a position to sell?
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, you have to tell a great story, you need your numbers to look good.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: So you know and so a couple of things I'd say you need your numbers to look good and you need to have some really good, uh, accountants and solicitors.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And we told them our story and they wrote the story for prospective um acquirers.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: And we knew um because we knew the market really well.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: we knew who would buy us and that I was going to say, because that's probably the most important thing, is it gonna?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Is?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Can you sell it?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Because this is the ultimate customer, isn't it that's going to?
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Be, paying the most you know more than all probably all your other customers combined.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, so it was so in my mind, um and and again.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: You know, another lesson for people that are building businesses and they, you know, and they've got an exit in mind think about who are the organizations that will buy your business and make sure that you foster really great relationships, partnerships, if possible, working partnerships, but have an eye on that all of the time.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: And that shifts.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: You know that landscape shifts sometimes and we did sell the business.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Did you have to stay on afterwards?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: That's part of the how long did you have to stay?
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I stayed for two years, um, and you know I genuinely went into it with.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You know I remember saying to somebody when I was in corporate world and we acquired their business and and the team that we acquired weren't behaving well.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: They were.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: They had come, you know they, they became part of my business and I I said to them, I sat them down one day and I said listen, the great thing about selling a business is you get a bit of money in the bank.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: The bad news is you don't own the agenda any longer.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: So you're on a different agenda and that's what you have to get your mind into.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: You're not making the decisions anymore.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Somebody else is making those decisions and you need to embrace them.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: You can challenge, but there's a balance there, because if you challenge and push back too hard, you know one looks like you know that you're becoming negative.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: You have to embrace what they want, even if in your gut you think I'm not sure about this.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: But you're on somebody else's somebody else's you know agenda.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I absolutely promise you, from the day that we were acquired, I said to the team you know, here's who we were, here's who we are today, and you know we need to embrace that.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: And here's all the great things.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And there were, there were fantastic things.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: There were job opportunities, because it was a huge business, a global company, and we were tiny in comparison.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: But that, that, the joy that gave me was that it gave our people opportunities that a small company couldn't give them.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: So, and you know, some of them are still there.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: So that's nice.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: And we sold that business, you know a few, a few years ago, so 2010, 2010.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: So, but there's still people and I still see them on LinkedIn and they've gone on, you know to, and we could not have delivered that to them.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: So what made you then?
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: You've obviously got money in the bank.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: You've stayed for two years yeah you've got the entrepreneurial itch again.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Did you always know you were going to set up another business?
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: no, no, I, I, I, absolutely I wasn't, and I and I did stay on with the business and I was on, you know, from a career perspective, an amazing opportunity.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I was on the global leadership team and I worked for a really well-traveled guy.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And you're probably on a good salary, yeah.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he, he was one of these people.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And he, he was one of these people and not many bosses do this or companies do this, but he culture was so important to him.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: So if I was going to India, he'd say to me Claire, go a few days early and you know, kind of, learn about India.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: And or come back, you know, stay a couple of days, stay over a weekend.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: And I, I loved that he was saying that to me and I agreed because he, he wanted his team, to really understand you know how other people work, how other people you know work and and so on.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: But the reality was I was a mum and I needed to get the last plane out and the first plane back after a meeting.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I couldn't do that stuff.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: So you know, I, I made the decision that being with my boys and seeing them was far more important to me and and sadly I resigned and and I was sad about it, um, because was that because you felt you couldn't meet their expectation?
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: then I.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I was unhappy all right yeah, I became.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I became really unhappy because I just thought, actually, I'm not doing anything well here and I, I would have loved to have you know if I if I didn't have children, of course I would have been able to get on that plane and go to india or philippines or wherever it was.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: How wonderful an opportunity that was, and I love the fact that he wanted his team to to be those people, but I, I couldn't do that.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I'd arrived somewhere and and the team I was part of would already been there a couple of days and they were fantastic.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I loved working with them, I learned a lot from them, but the reality, it was how I felt yeah, I get that.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: So, um, and I won.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I I think today we would have found a way of keeping you know me in the business in in some way.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: So I didn't, I left and then, in 2013, uh, co-founded.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: So did you have a little break then, after you left a?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: little break.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I had a little break, yeah, and then one of our clients that worked with us years before phoned and said are you thinking about starting again Because you know we miss?
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: You know your, your, your team and your organization.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: And we said no, absolutely not.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And then, a week later, we decided to start again because there's nothing that piques the interest like a paying client start again, because there's nothing that piques the interest like a paying client.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: So no, knowing that you're going to get some money in the back.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: So so we did the same as we did with the old business.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: We sat down, myself and andreas, and said, right, what do we want this business to be?
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And we wanted to create?
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: So this is 10 years ago.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: We wanted to create a family friendly business that enabled people to go to their kids, sports days and carol services and all of those things.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: No offices, everybody working from home and then it's a lead generation business, isn't it?
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is powerful.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: this is the lead generation business and the business that you know I'm still in today, and so we really did, you know, and our plan was to build what we called a lifestyle business.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: What is a lifestyle?
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Because people listen to this and they may be thinking it's like you know something to do with life.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: You know what is a lifestyle business?
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: It's whatever it means to you.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: So for me it meant being able to work from home and be with my boys and be able to take them to school, pick them up, go to sports day and just do all of those things that I really wanted to do.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Does it mean you have to be less ambitious for your business?
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Do you think Does?
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: it mean you have to be less ambitious for your business, do you think?
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think that we were.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I don't think I was less ambitious, but in some ways I now you've asked that question I probably did take my foot off the gas a bit at a personal, because I've already always been incredibly driven.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I've to, you know, be involved with things that were were successful.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: So I just think we decided it was going to be different, and I was excited about being involved in a business that was different, and different was creating a home-based business, you know, family friendly, or all of those things.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: So I think lifestyle is whatever it means to you, and to some people, it means working two days a week.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Some people, you know, they're really into sport and that's what they want to do.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: So Andreas and I had our, both had our, our visions, what we wanted for ourselves, and and we had a, a client that wanted to pay us.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: So, um, we put the same team that we'd had, um, that we, when we sold the, the business, the last business, to the american company, we, we put that team back together and I'm really proud to say that, um, the senior team are all still with us today so how did you fund it initially then?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: because you didn't get external funding, it was your, just your money that first client.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: We put a bit of yeah, we put a bit of money in um and then.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: But remember we were what.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: What we needed to fund was salaries yeah so, um, we put, we put some money in initially, and uh and then, but we didn't get any funding, and that was we had decided we didn't want this time around, we didn't want the stress of worrying about you know where were we going to get money from, you know, and all of those things we just decided.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Actually, what we want to do is to build a business that is self-funding, and we started that and it still is self-funding today is self-funding and we started that and it still is self-funding today.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, what do you think is the secret?
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Because you must have had.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just like it's been going now for 11 years.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: You'll have seen competitors come and go um.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: What's the secret, you think, of having a business, a long-term business that's, you know, can afford to pay, a team of staff can afford to pay you and is reliable.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: And I know you can now step away from the business as well.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: What do you think the secret to it is?
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: it's about telling, being open to you know to with your clients about what you will deliver to them and delivering, and if there's something that I'm really hot on, it is that.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: So if we tell somebody, you know, you know you're paying us some money, we've agreed that we'll, you know, we'll deliver X number of appointments or leads or whatever it is to you, come what may, we will deliver.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: And that, to me, is so.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: And how do you do that?
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: And that's about the people that you have in the business.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: It's not about me, it's, you know, not about my business partner.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: It's about, it's about having people that feel that they are valued, um, that they're paid, um, you know well, for doing the job that they feel valued, yeah, that they feel that, yeah, I'm, I'm doing a job, I like being here, um, and so that to me, you know, if you tell and and, by the way, the other really important thing for me, and you know and I bang on about this, you know, do we mess up?
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Of course we mess up any of this messes up pick the phone up and say to a client this has happened and I'm and this is what we're going to do to fix it, and nobody shouts at anybody.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: If you put your hand up and proactively and say I got it wrong, we got it wrong, but this is what we're doing to fix it, nobody shouts at anybody.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: So I am absolutely passionate in that belief.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: You know about building, you know really, you know collaborative partnerships with our clients.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: I want to know what, what stress they're under.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: You know what, what you know.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: If we don't deliver to you, what?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we do deliver to you.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: You know how I want to be part of of what they're trying to do, rather than them and us.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: So and you can't always get that, because some clients you work with it is them and us.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: But if you come at it from the perspective of you know we're in this together yeah, we're invested in your successes, yeah and I think and I think people, I think clients feel that the right clients feel, feel that yeah, so interesting because you mentioned Cause.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: You mentioned it.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: You know on your form about hiring the best people you can afford.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: How do you go about that?
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: How do you go about identifying who?
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: to hire.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Hiring for us has become tougher.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: I think things definitely changed post COVID and people wanted different things and were starting to re-evaluate their own lives and what they wanted.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: So I think one of our biggest challenges today is is is finding, is finding really good people, um, but that's up to us to, you know, be able to, you know, articulate why we're a great, a great business to be part of.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: And do you remember I said, you know, when we started the business?
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Um, you know we wanted it to be this new thing where, you know, everybody worked from home and create a family-friendly environment and all of those things which I still feel really you know strongly about.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: But you know, one of the one day, one of the senior guys came to me and said you know, actually we don't want to work from home, um, and I you could blame me over the feather and they said we want to be, feel that we're part of something.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: So is there any chance we could open an office?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And we did.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: We opened an office and you know what that taught me was listen to what your people want telling you.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And you know, today we have we still have that same office and we uh, we encourage people.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: If people want to be in the office five days a week, that's up to them.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: They make that choice.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: We've got people that work, um, for us totally from home, and that's okay too.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: And we've got people that work, you know, half at home.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: So you know half at home and half in the office.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: So you know very much from a hybrid perspective, um, and I think what we have to learn to do as business leaders and managers is manage in a different way.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: So trust people.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: If people say look, I want to work.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: If you say to people you can work and I don't care if you're dropping your kids off to school and because you'll make your time up when you come back or you'll just get the job done, you know that that that's fine, and I think more what you know, more organizations have to think like that.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: So I was gonna say, because a lot of people it's, that's gonna, it's gonna be.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: My next question is the trust, isn't it?
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: And a lot of managers are against remote working or flexible working because they can't see a person working, they can't physically see them at their desk.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: What would you say to them?
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: And how do you manage then, a remote team or a team that you, you know, maybe if they're in the office and you're not?
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: well, I did have a real fight with my fights too strong a word, robust um discussions with um.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: You know our leadership team because you know we had that going on.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: People said, no, I need to be able to see people because people have a target and if they don't achieve the target, then we understand, need to understand, why that is, because it might not be that they're, you know, kick back putting their feet up on the on the sofa.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: It might be that they've got other stuff going on in their lives, um, or we've not enabled them effectively enough.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: So I think you know we need to, we have to operate in a very different way and managing people at home, if that's what people want to, we have to learn to listen more.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: So we need to listen to you know what, when people, you know and hear what they're not saying.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: So you know, if we've got somebody that's not performing, we need to understand why that is.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Is it any of the reasons that I've just said, or is there something else going on?
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: so it's us that has to change yeah, do you think about setting kpis is essential.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and people, our people, are managed by KPIs and you know that's what, if they're making their, you know, if they're making their KPI, I don't care where they work.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because if they are happy and they feel, actually I can see, say hi to my children when they come in from school they get dropped off or whatever it is.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I know how happy that made me and how, um, I just, I just loved thinking I'm here.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I might not be in the room with my children, but I'm here and they know I'm here and I know I'm here.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: So, but, but also listen to when people say do you know what?
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I can't work from home, um, it, you know, it just doesn't work for me because I'm, you know, I don't like being alone, um, or I don't have the right, the right environment to work in.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: So the reality is that you know, that's the biggest change, I think, to managers, you know, moving forward, that we need to be listened to, to what people say and stay in touch with them.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Just because they're at home, don't forget to pick up the phone, don't forget to, you know, send them a slack message or whatever it is.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: They are still part of the team, they're just you just can't see them.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is about you know, about trust and openness and and that's two-way if, if something's not working, tell us why it's not working.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Um, but I didn't, I know, I recognize I didn't answer your question properly about, you know, finding people.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Finding people is really hard.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: So, linked to that, it's about being open-minded to say, okay, if, if you, if you really you know, can't be in the office, that's fine, that's absolutely fine, as long as you're happy and that's going to work from you, and then we can hire people from all over the place.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: I was going to say.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: My other question would be a lot of people might listen to this, maybe solopreneurs, maybe thinking about that first hire, nervous about making that first hire.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: What would you say to them?
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: You know, how do you know when you're ready to build a team?
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Or how do you know when you're ready to expand your team?
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's a really great question.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: I think, when you get to the point where you think actually you know you're being, you can't do you?
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: You don't have the right skill set to do certain things, and I think you have to put your hands up and say do you know what?
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: I now need to go and get somebody to help me with that?
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: And, and you know you, you may not be able to afford to get somebody on a full time basis, but that's why this whole thing around flexibility is so fantastic, because there are a lot of women and men out there who would love to be able to work in a stimulating job for a day a week or two days a week.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: So, it's not, because it is a massive decision and getting it wrong is so scary.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: So I think you know you've obviously can do your homework and I feel you know that my view is that you need to hire slowly, not hire slowly enough so that you miss a great candidate.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: But it's a two-way thing and it needs to be right for the person yeah, you or your, you know if it's just you or your bigger organization but it needs to be right the other way as well.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So for me it's about taking your time to find, you know, the right, the right people.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: And what does your gut tell you?
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Um, you know what, when you're talking to somebody, do you feel this person you know could really fit your organization?
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Because it, you know, if you've got like three or four people and then you bring one in and that person is wrong, that can wreck a team very quickly yeah, you're very, very true.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love this line, if you are what you wrote on your phone.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: If you are in the room, be in the room.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Um?
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: well, I think it's really important that you know if you're, let's say, you're in a meeting and you get one person I'm, I'm a great example of this that will do all the talking, um, and it's so important that that person brings other people into the conversation.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: We forget because you're so actually, by the way, particularly on zoom or teams, because you're, you know, you're trying to manage the call, you're trying to manage the room, you know, and it's much more difficult, isn't it, to see body language and and so on.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: So I always say to people always come to a meeting prepared having about it before you do and have one really fantastic question to ask and ask it, because otherwise, if you just sit there, you're just not seen, you become invisible yeah, and you start getting overlooked yeah, you become.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: You become overlooked.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: And, by the way, I say that to uh and women yeah, I don't, because there's a lot of talk about you know.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Well, lots of people said you know that women don't speak up or don't have the confidence to speak up, and I think that is the case.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: But I give that advice to men I work with as well If you're going to be in the room, be present, be in the room.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: You are an absolute inspiration, claire.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I've loved our conversation.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: You've inspired me so much.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: How can people connect with you and maybe learn more about you and Purple?
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: oh, thank you.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Well, first thing, I want to say I've loved it too, and you know, my objective about for being here was that, you know, if people can just take one thing away from this conversation, then that would you know, that would really inspire and energize me, um, because it's been a, you know.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I'm taking something away.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ring a client that I've been putting offering, so that is definitely one thing.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do so, um, people can, and I, and I'm really happy to chat to people, um, you know, um I'd love to talk to people, so, um, you can contact me at claire.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: That's c-l-a-r-e.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: No, I, that's my mum's fault.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Uh, dot findlay f-i-n-d-l-a-y at purpledemandcom brilliant, lovely, and I think you're on linkedin, as aren't you?
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: I am on LinkedIn.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: You'll find me there too.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Lovely.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: We'll put all the links in the show notes.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Claire, for joining me today.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Pleasure.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.