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The Enneads with Eros Up · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What help?
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the occult rejects this episode. I got a
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: couple of rejects with us this morning, and we will
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: this afternoon and we will be talking about the inniads
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: with arrows. Very excited to cover this topic or this stuff.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: This was associated with the platinis. People haven't listened to
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: my Platinus episode. I highly highly suggest to go listen
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: to tons of info in there and you will hear
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: about the indiads. But before we get to the guest,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I'm going to introduce the other rejects on the show.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: And today we got the lovely Lisa with us. What's
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: going on? The cult reject mad scientist?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: How are you good?
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: And thank you for inviting me on. Hey, fellow rejects.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: I'm very excited to hear about the indiods. I listened
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: to Nick's Platinus and so he touches about the idiods
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: and theirs uff. It's going to go deep down into it,
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: So I'm very much looking forward to that. You can
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: find me on Twitter, sois Lisa or a Cult Research
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Institute dot org.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Thank you awesome, Thank you very much. And Headless Giant,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: what is going on, sir?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: How will you you doing?
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: You can find me on Twitter and on x or
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: x a Twitter, I guess they're the same thing. And
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: you can find me on YouTube. Look up the Headless
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: Gai podcast. And I love the topic. Platinus is so
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: influential in early Christian thought, you know, late antiquity thought,
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: and it's it's a really interesting bridge between the two.
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: So I think this is going to be a great episode.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: So check me out. On Thursdays, me and Nick do
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: a show where we read your occult email, So send
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: them over to the Headless Guy Podcast gmail dot com
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: and he will send you some stickers if you include
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: your address, So that's great. Tomorrow we have the Trilogus
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: with Ethan and Ricardo, so check that out early in
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: the morning. And that's about it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you, yeah sending those sending those emails. I mean
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: even at this point, you could be making up a
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: fabricated story and you're gonna get free stickers out of it.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: So I mean, just fucking said something at this point,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Jesus Ethan Indigo, my man, what is going on? So
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: how were you?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you for making it thanks so much everyone.
• 2:34
  Speaker 6: I'm honored to be here. Yeah, I'm excited for tomorrow
• 2:36
  Speaker 6: doing the trialogue. I'm easy to find on social media
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: and frequently share writing and so forth, and I've written
• 2:44
  Speaker 6: a couple of books. And Nick, yeah, props on your Platonius.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Show, and thank you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: I'm excited to learn more about all this. Thanks for
• 2:53
  Speaker 6: being here at else.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for joining Ethan. I really appreciate it,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: really wanted you here. I figured this would be right
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: up your rally as well, your kind of speed and
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: your style.
• 3:01
  Speaker 6: Of fascination anything numerological and it is.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Awesome. And finally, Arrows, let everybody know what your deal
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: is and where they can find your stuff. Please.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, So I'm Arrows Up. You can find me
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: on Twitter, I think at Arrows Up Arrows to eat
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: those on Twitter or x. And then I'm also on YouTube,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: where I've been going through the eniads and studying them
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: and presenting that.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I came across I can't even remember how I
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: came across your stuff. I don't know if maybe you
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: commented on a video and then I went and noticed
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: that you had your own channel, but like somehow I
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: came across you know, I was like, Yo, what's the
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: odds of this go like covering this stuff? Why I'm
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: working on Platonis. I think I had even mentioned you
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: and told you I was working on it. After it
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: came out, I was like, I'd really like to have
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: you on to cover the inniads. So it was like,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: it was even really weird how I even came across
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: you in the timing. So I was really excited to
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: finally get you on because I do think this stuff
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: the ani ads from the stuff that I looked at
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: when I covered Platonis, there was some real, real deep
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: shit to me. And there's actually a lot of chapters
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: in there that are on topics that I think are
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: actually very important. It's interesting to know that he does
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: cover stuff on site. He does have a whole ch
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: chapter that I think, you know, people are into the occult,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: you should read his chapter or narcissism. I think he
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: has a solid solid point. But yeah, that's enough about that. Eros.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: What got you into I guess Platinus. I'm assuming it's Platonis.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it was Porphyry that or however
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: you say that guy's name that got you into the
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Inniads because he wrote them. But you know, how did
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: you come across I guess the Aniads and Platonius and
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: other stuff.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: A long journey, I guess, but what really, Like I
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: would say, initially, I was really into Taoism and Taro,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and I practiced astrology, and then I got into Thelema
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and then just I guess, weirdly, Christian mysticism,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: and I think that Christian mysticism is really what brought
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: me to Platinus. And I also wanted to say that, yeah,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I watched you guys religiously, like I've watched you guys
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: for a long time, so I think I probably did
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: comment on something, and that's probably I think you're right
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: recalling those details. But yeah, I just wanted to thank
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: you guys for continuously expanding my perception on things, and
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: obviously the awesome guests that you have on as well.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you. You know what I think it was.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I think you commented on the premiere something about like
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: you're excited for this. I was like, Oh, somebody actually
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: knows who this guy is, you know, so when he
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: clicked at his stuff, I was like, oh, she covers
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: the eniots that is wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so uh
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: uh you mentioned Thelma. I had no idea about that.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Uh is is that kind of where? I mean? That
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: brought you to Platinus in a sense as well. You
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: were saying, is he one of the saints.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Platinis?
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he may not be.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: That would be kind of funny, that would be actually
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: hysterical if he became a Gnostic scene.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: See, Augustine was very influenced by Platinists though, so, and
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: he talked about about that in some of his writings.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: But Platinis is definitely not a saint. He probably would
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: have been murdered by the Christians.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Well, see that was something you had interesting that you
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: mentioned before with a Lima and then you went straight
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: into Christianity or Fellos. Uh do you think there is
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: do you think there is a that's do you think
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: that's in the Lima?
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I think that there is a tie between Thurgy and
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: uh neo Platonism. So maybe in that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Way I like that how you explained that, that's interesting?
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah all right, so, uh we'll get into it. I
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: guess I don't want to get too hung up on
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: that on the Lima and stuff. So yeah, what what
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: what did you pick and why to let people know
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: what we're getting to here.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, I wanted to focus a bit on are the tractate?
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Are the stars causes? So that's any two track tate three,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I believe, And I think it just really showcases some
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: of his depth that maybe a lot of us don't
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: always get to see. So I'm really excited about that.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: And one thing I just wanted to add, maybe correct
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong, just for people were listening and
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: may not have listened to the Latina's episode. Uh, these
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: were notes that were compiled by somebody else and put
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: him into the indiads.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Correct, right, yep, Poor free his student went through the
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: nads and he ordered them and published them.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: And if I even remember correctly, they put it in
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: an order that was kind of like some people question
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: like why'd you do it like that? But isn't there
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: I think in one of his books, I think Poor
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Forey actually lists like how if you wanted to do
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: it in order, there is an order that you could
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: do it in, but he just didn't put it out
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: that way something like that.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's right, And I think but I think
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: in general, you can really read any tractee independently.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's a thousand pages, so there must be
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of something in there. All right, So here
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: I'll pull this up and we got sorry, what was
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: this one again? On the stars?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, are the stars causes. So these are just
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: some quotes from the Enyads to kind of give us
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a teleological view and then also get our us thinking
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: about some of these ideas that we're going to be covering.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: So one thing, one thing I did want to just
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: bring up real quick, or I could be wrong, because
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: there's been a few people I've covered recently that felt
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: this way. Was he also in belief that these stars
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: did not, like put you in a cage like they
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: could influence, but they were not as said Destiny. Did
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: he feel that way as well?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, like the.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I didn't. Unfortunately, I feel like nowadays it's kind of
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: looked at it like that. I think a lot of
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: people who want to get into zodiacs are these woo
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: wool people. They putting you in shackles with the zodiac,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: in my opinion, or they'll blame the zodiac when they're
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: acting out. You know.
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: Well, I think that's that's why it's so important is
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: because he provides sort of a philosophy behind it. Instead
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: of just saying, here's the stars, here's what they do,
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: he's actually making the distinction between these are the influences
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: and these are your actions. It sounds like they were
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: having the same problem back then as well.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Probably.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a it's a response to Plato's Timaeus, right, kiss.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Plato did think of the planets as gods and of
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: like having will themselves, and so it's kind of just
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: a response to that and expressing his different opinion on that.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: All right, so how did you what? Did you just
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: want to read through this and then we'll just talk
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: on it what we think and stuff. That's good to me?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I can just I'll just run through this
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and just feel free to stop ye at any time
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: for questions or if you want to provide an insight.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: All right, sounds good works for me.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: All right, bear with me through these quotes. But I
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: think that they're important because they really show the nuance
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: of the one and then just kind of some of
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: these other ideas that are going to follow up from it. So, okay,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the one is perfect because it seeks nothing, has nothing
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and needs nothing, but instead it overflows, and this overflowing
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: is creative. The one perfect and full generates from its
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: own super abundance.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: That sorry, sorry to jumping already, but I was like,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: totally Kabala right there. That's like Ketha. I actually use that.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: I used that quote in my episode. That's that's exactly.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I love that quote.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm so much Kabbala. So that's interesting.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, it's so Dallas.
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: It's like almost directly in correspondence with the Eating or
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: some other similar work, and in fact too that I
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: wanted to ask Erros what you mentioned that you're into Daoism,
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: What aspect of Daoism and did you find, I mean,
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: other aspects of the Aeneods that may sound dallast or
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: have Dallas elements.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel very far removed from Daoism now, you know.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I studied all of that, like I don't know, close
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: to eight ten years ago, and so you know, I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: only remember some of the big principles. I did a
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: lot of tai chi back then. But the idea of
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: kind of becoming one with the cosmos, I think that
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: definitely aligns to platinis like his ultimate teaching of returning
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: to the one. It's a very similar idea because it's
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: different than Yeah, it's different than Nirvana. So to say,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I guess if you're to compare Buddhism in Daoism.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: Are you familiar with the Eleatic school of philosophy with
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: Xeno's paradox and all the rest of that stuff like
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: five hundred BC and Greece. I'm not, well, that sounds
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: like where he's getting this from. On nature, they talk
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: about specifically how everything is an emanation from the one thing,
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: and then they go through all of the gods and
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: how that that sort of relates back, and that that
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: sort of ethos you could see through Plato and you know,
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: all of his people and then right up into the Neoplatinust.
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: It's like, this was the surviving thread that seems to
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: come through in Kabbalah, hermeticism, all that stuff.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, so we'll try it in the second one.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I'll try to interrupt it again.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: No, it's great, it's great. In the act of vision,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the seer and the scene are two, but here in
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the one they are not yet too. From this unity,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: the vision is born, and with it the distinction of
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: nowhere and known. Thus from the one arises multiplicity. All
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: things are different from one another, because each draws from
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: the one its own share, not as if divided, but
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: as each, according to its nature, receives what it can.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: In this way, the one is present to all, yet
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: each is distinct. The one overflowing produces something other than it's.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: This other turns back towards it and becomes intellect, containing
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: all things different within itself, yet unified by their origin.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: If there were no one, there would be no number,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: but only non being. Because of the one, there are two,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and so multiplicity. From unity, difference is born. But the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: one itself remains without difference. And then the last one,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: intellect springing from the one, is the first to contain difference.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: It thinks itself, and in doing so it contains both
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: the thinker and the thought, and the many beings which
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: it knows.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Nice, you know a lot of that's still before you
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: go on. I mean, it really doesn't remind me a
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: lot of the Kabbalah. There was even one, the one overflowing,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: producing something other than itself. This other turns back towards
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: it and becomes intellect. That right there even gave me
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: the whole idea of Chokmah, because that's like coming face
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: to face with God. And obviously, like if you're gonna
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: keep going down the tree, you're turning the yellow way
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: because of going up the tree, coming face to face,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: you know you're heading a different direction. So just a
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: lot of and even like recently, I think when I
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: was covering the Kabbalah, I had taken like a quote
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: out of Gareth Knight's Cabalistics book, and it was very
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: much like even describing how like Cather starts off and
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: like everything exists due to Cather and everything that kind
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: of was created falling from that. I mean, it's like
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the same thing you're hear and here you know, it's
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: within everything. You know, even like in the Tree of Life,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: when you look at the four worlds of each sphere,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: there is like this the middle one, or this one
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: right in the smallest one in the middle is supposed
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: to be like the God essence or like the god
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: idea of God in that sphere. And that's pretty much
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: like how I feel like this is describing how it's
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: in everything. Like even I think Platinus was saying that's
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: why he didn't agree with the gnostics is because if
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: they existence, Scott is in there somewhere and it's not bad,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So it's within everything, you know,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: It's very cabalistic to me. I like it.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: As well as the Emerald Tablet of thought. It's almost
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: like one to one of the Emerald tablet there.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: All right, even say, I'm like.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: I was going to say that this particular part of
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: the one where these quotes are talking about it immediately
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: brings me when it says the one, and it says
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: the beginning, and it seeks nothing and it just interprets,
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: and then as it begins it turns into itself. It
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: reminds me of what the Pythagoras is used to represent
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: the metaphysical being the monad which you have the circumpunked,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: and when you look at the circumpunked it looks like
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: an eyeball with with the iris as the white part
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: controlling the aperture of the pupil itself, and that that
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: is the representation or interpretation of reality. And as the
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: pupil ingests the message of light or the message of
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: the photons, it then turns into itself on the retina
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: and then back into the actual optic nerve to interpret
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: and begin the process of reality or begin the interpretation
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: of reality. And that is at the beginning, but it
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: also is at the end, so it's like an actual circle,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: like coming back to So it's you know, the one,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: we came from the one, and then we will return
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: back to the one. And you see that kind of
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: like lay out in most of the quotes that you selected,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: So I just wanted to insert that.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. I feel like that does tie into
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: everything that we're going to be talking about. All right,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: so all of these ideas are that. Then the one
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: pours out of itself to experience the multiplicity of existence
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: almost like a it's based off of differentiation, so it's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: almost like a constant state of gnosis or novelty producing.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: And so I like to tie it to this principle
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of chaos, and I think you'll see that. I think
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: uh Platinis does parallel that a bit. And this is
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: echoed in multiple creation stories. Right, It's like the orphic
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: creation story. You know, you have the cosmic egg, which
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: represents unity, and then Fames emerges and out of him
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: multiplicity and ordered cosmos, and then the Egyptian creation story
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: is similar. Sometimes like like there's this infinite potential and
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: sometimes a like unified egg, and then from this egg
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: arises a god or a creator, and out of them
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the multiplicity. And then Hermeticism as well, right, a primordial
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: chaos identified with the mind, which brings awareness and order
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: to what was previously undifferentiated. I feel like that's that
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: exactly ties into what we're going to be talking about.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: From this differentiation and ordering, the cosmos becomes alive and structured,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and all living beings emerge, each reflecting aspects of the
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: original unity that was contained within the boundless chaos. Kay.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: And then that just brings it to you know, like,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: how is the one kind of represented in different schools
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: of magic. I think it's kind of interesting to talk
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: about how it's seen differently in different schools of thought.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Like hermeticis believe that chaos is onto logical and that
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: it's a fundamental nature of reality. It serves as the
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: substrate from which all order, form and life emerge. The
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: focus is as is on chaos as something to understand
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and align with rather than something to manipulate. But for
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: chaos magicians, you know, they believe that this is like
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: a primordial soup that can be shaped like a stem
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: cell or a source of you know, creative potential.
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: And about the electron, huh, what about the electron? So,
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: for instance, if you think about photons, right, and the
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: speed of light being the upward limit of the entire
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: visible frame of reference. Right back to what Lisa was
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: saying about, how the divine is sort of an emanation
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: that can be reflected in the way that we perceive
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: the world, and so the upward limit of light would
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: be the speed of light, and that sort of represents
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: the god of this world because they can't imagine a
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: place outside of the speed of light. You know, that's
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: something that a lot of scientists have no idea what
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: they're grappling with, but we do know that it exists.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: So it's almost like the spiritual realm exists outside of
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: the light world that we live in. That's like the
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: upward limit that's Phani's again, is the god of light,
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: and so from that.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: All things are emanated.
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: It's almost like they're describing physics at the same time
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: that they're making these poetic illustrations.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: I can see that.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting too, because Platinus uses light as
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: an analogy so often.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that nil the grassy guy if I even
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: say his day, Right, he came out with like he
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: was saying some shit, what tied with his boy on
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: some show, theorizing that the reason we can't go past
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: the speed of light is because we're in a matrix,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: and then the program wouldn't be written. So that's why
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: we can't go past it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: Well, photons and electrons are the same thing. Their vibrations
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: change the p everything would be well, you know, it's
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: like the energy transfer from electron to photon is really easy,
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: so there's there's something going on there. It's almost like
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: that's the matrix of realities, all these little light particles
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: vibrating together.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I think it's like say it was like in the Sims.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: It's like you can't get to that room yet because
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: it didn't make it.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the photons are going to be smaller than electrons,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: and photons do not have electrons, but they are the
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: elementary particles. They're smaller than the fundamental particles. And so
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: when you get a photon, it's like zero mass and
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: it's like pure energy like there is it is its
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: own you know message, there is nothing kind of that
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: can change it its its own entity. But yeah, just
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: a fire.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: I would also think if you went past the speed
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: of light, wouldn't that just be into the darkness the
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: light again, Well, if you went past light, where would
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: you see nothing?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Then?
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: Right, that's like the boundary of the black holes. Like
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: you've got this a little bit on the black holes
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: where everything seems to freeze.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: At that point in the event horizon.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, time stops.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: Well, and then that's what China's talking about. Matter and
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: how you know, transmutation of the soul into matter. You
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: had to go through this process.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: Sorry, it's perfect spelled your name wrong.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: At least he gave you credit.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Coming whatever you want. Just don't comb for lunch. But yeah,
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: and sorry and it means interrupt. But yeah, what what
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: heless is saying is is accurate. It's just the the
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: photon is like its purest form of energy, I mean
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: purest form of information. It's it's like an adulterated information.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: Whereas with electrons, it depends the spin, it depends the position,
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: it depends the temperature, it depends this blah blah blah.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: So yeah, and electrons belong to the actual you know
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: that it's circulating or whatever, or unless it's like expelled.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: But anyway, sorry, that's good.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love where you guys are going with this.
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: I mean, I say, I didn't want to be stuck
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: on the Dallas thing, but I guess I always am.
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: The Dallas also have their egg creation myth. As you
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: mentioned the egg concept before, and there's a quote here
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: from the uh from the Dowtaye shing excuse.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Me, uh.
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: The Dow gave birth to one, one gave birth to two,
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: two gave birth to three, and three gave birth to
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things carry yin
• 28:13
  Speaker 6: and embrace yang. They achieve harmony by combining these forces.
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: And just in respect to some of the any lines
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: that you just quoted just kind of reminds me. But
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: also thinking about that in terms of electron and photon
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: instead of yin and yang, it's almost like the light
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: gave birth to the myriad things type of thing.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: The one became the many things, you know, the whole.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: I love how you talked about chaos being like a
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: stem cell and that it can give rise to anything,
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: and it is the primorial soupia truly is like that
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: was probably the best analogy I've ever heard, kind of, uh,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: relaying it to the chaos that I guess magicians manipulate
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: for their own and and I do think in you
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: on on the on the quote where it says it
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: represents the underlying quantum like flow of reality absolutely, because
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: I feel like it can become anything. It has the potential.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: It is in its potential energy state. And and obviously
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: with the observer or the you know, the airbender, the
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: soul in matter, we can manipulate reality. We are able
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: to manipulate mass, and I've I've often heard that chaos
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: is probably our inability to see the pattern yet. And
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: so I think if in which you know, Platonists was
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: talking about this, that we should strive towards intellectual perfectism
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: or write something like that perfection in that it's it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: more important to continue that growth towards understanding and that
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: that God or the One exists beyond that understanding. And
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: so when you look at chaos, chaos is potentially, you know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: not an artifact, but an actual We're able to visualize
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: matrix when we don't understand the matrix into us, it
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: looks like chaos because we're either not stepping far back
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: enough or we lack the actual synapses to understand the
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: equation or the algorithm, so to speak.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I've read that recently that almost like that same phrase
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: right there, and I think it was in a couple
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: of book. It might have been that Gareth nightbook saying
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: something about like chaos. It's chaos to us because we're
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: just looking at such a small little part. Yeah, actually
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: look back more and you would see it's a small
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: intricate part of a whole big moving.
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: Thing quantum computing to try and to achieve God.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Yoh, very truly, very good way to put it.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that platinis can really help make sense
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: of chaos for sure. I included in here a little
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: bit about Emboocus, just that he believes that you need
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: intermediaries to shape the chaotic substrate. So it's just kind
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: of interesting how different schools of thought think of this principle.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: Well, think about the principles of geometry, right, So as
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: these lines are crossing over each other, they're creating new patterns,
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: and that would be like these intersections, these points that
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: govern other other things and other ideas and so the
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: ideas of geometry were really central to everything that they
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: were about, you know, the Platonic solids and everything else.
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: We're really meditation tools of how to understand the world,
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: how to understand the universe.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: All right. So in the Are the Stars Causes he's
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: talk he's responding right to Plato's Timaeus, and he's arguing
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that the planets aren't deterministic, they don't act in accordance
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: with will. They follow intelligible order, and they reflect this order,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: but they aren't the actual cause of the things that happen.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And he uses this analogy of the universe as a
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: single living organism to illustrate the interconnectedness of all beings.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: He explains that everything that exists emanates from the One,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: like light from the sun, without diminishing its unity. All beings,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: including human stars and matter, are fundamentally connected to the
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: One as derivatives of its overflow. So it's like this
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: idea that right, and we'll get into it more in
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the other sides, but that there's the One, and then
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that multiplies into a seer and the scene, and even
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: further when he goes into archetypes, because he talks about
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: archetypes quite a bit. You know. It's this idea that
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: things mirror each other because they have little pieces of
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: these patterns, of these pure ideas in the intellectual principle. Right.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: So like if one archetype is a piece of gold,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: and as a human, you're a rock, or you're like
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: an unpure piece of gold, right, Like, maybe you have
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the gold in you, you have these these this pattern
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: in you, but you're a offshoot of it, so you're
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: similar to it, but you're.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: Different vibration and frequency. That's where those differences start to
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: come in and have a geometric relationship to one another.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: I mean again, I hate to even go back to
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: like the Capolla with this, but I guess maybe you know,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: for people who are into the kabala, they can see
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: a really easy connection, you know, or even like how
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: I use like sometimes like the whole like light bulb thing,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: it'd be like kind of like the light that shines
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: out of that container, that light bulb, just like it
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: the father of the distance goes. I feel like the
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: more of a matter it comes into, you know, like
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: it explains like how this emanates, this one thing emanates
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: and just eventually starts to turn into a more dense
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: form as it goes along.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Until it hits the wall. You have an image.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: Time is a form of distance, right, So we're really
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: with the time scale from you know, the big bang
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: or whatever start everything, And as it moves along and outwards,
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: you've got different emanations that come off of the path.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Well, sense on all, right?
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So I have this quote from this the tract. He says,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: we may think of the stars as letters perpetually being
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: inscribed on the heavens, or inscribed once for all, and
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: yet moving as they pursue the other tasks allotted to them.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Upon these main tasks will follow the quality of signifying,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: just as the one principle underlying any living unit enables
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: us to reason from member to member, so that, for example,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we may judge of character and even the perils and
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: safeguards by indications in the eyes or in some other
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: part of the body. If these parts of us are
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: members of a whole, so are we in different ways.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: The one law applies all teams with symbol. The wise
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: man is the man who in anyone they can read another,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: a process familiar to all of us, and not a
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: few examples of everyday experience. But what is the comprehensive
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: principle of coordination? Establish this and we have a reasonable
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: basis for the divination not only by stars, but also
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: by birds and other animals from which we derive guidance
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: and our varied concerns. I guess I added this example,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: a certain planet's position coincides with the person's birth and character,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: or a bird's flight might coincide with an omen at
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: what's coming. If the cosmosis an organic unity, then different
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: events and phenomena can reflect one another. Stars don't cause
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: human events, the birds don't cause omens. Instead, both are
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: coordinated expressions of the same higher order. This cosmic harmony
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: is why divination works at all, not because these creatures
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: are for stars generate fate, but because their actions lined
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: up with the greater pattern.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I think that interesting.
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: Think about bird murmurations and how hypnotic it is. Right,
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: It almost puts you in a different frame of mind
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: or a different consciousness as you're watching the bird murmurations
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: as they move across fields and stuff. You know, it's
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: almost like seeing the geometry patterns of a different world,
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: and so being able to connect images with that seems
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: to be a very common practice of you know, meditation, right,
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: So you're looking up at the sky, You're seeing the
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: different shapes in the sky and everything else. It's like
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: you're connecting your imagination to the things outside of yourself
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: and then coming back with new images.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I do like how like this thing was putting it
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: at the end, and I sometimes I would even want
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: like it's this kind of almost applies to it's a
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: little lost. But like even with like the true crime stuff,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: when we cover it with the jamatri, I.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Was just about to say that exactly you.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Could say, you can say, because I have something else
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: that I was going to say, so go for it.
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: Okay, Just that last sentence that you mentioned. Nick has
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: always said that when we would do true crime, that
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: we would look at jamatria, and that he did it
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: was almost as if it's not so much that maybe
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: that the crime or the events were being done purposefully
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: for those numbers, but that maybe the event itself echoes
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: a pattern and jamatra is the way to decipher the
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: pattern or decipher the number or the math that is
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: being expressed because of the event, or that there's a
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: linkage into being able to interpret the event through math.
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: Or through you know, some kind of numerology of sorts.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: But with talking about the cosmic harmony in that that
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: you can math your way in a way, you could
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: math your way into the understanding of what is being said.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Like looking at the birds or looking at the stars.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: It's not that the stars themselves are influencing, it's the
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: stars are being reflective. You know, ASBOs of blah blah
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: blah blah.
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: You're talking about Benford's law. No, have you ever heard
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: of this? Yeah, it's a tool of the I R.
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: S uses to see who's committing fraud on their tax
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: paperwork because certain numbers have a certain mathematical frequency that
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: happens in natural numbers versus unnatural numbers. People don't know
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: about these these frequencies, so they'll put the numbers in
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: the wrong order or the wrong proportion, and you'll know
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: that somebody is fooling with the numbers. So in a
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: lot of ways, you've got a pattern to nature that
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: goes along these basic principles, like one is the most
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: commonly used number in all of nature, so you've got
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: to have a certain number of ones in your thing
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: to represent a more natural number. So it's kind of
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: crazy how that works.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I was even thinking of, like, uh, even like you know,
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: once shit gets weird or like for well, conspiracy theorists,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: when you know, everything starts to seem like, you know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: it's just doesn't make any sense, you know, and it
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: just seems to be from everywhere. Sometimes I wonder, is
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: that just like, are we witnessing something happening but it
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: just ripples through a bunch of shit it just causes
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: weird shit to happen, or just I don't know, it's
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: just like sometimes like it seems like when weird shit
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: pops off from politics and the rest of the world,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: it's just like a fucking huge shit comes up once
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: and like everywhere, you know, everybody's looking everywhere. It's just
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: weird shit everywhere, and it's just like, is there some
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: sort of like eggregre that just passed by humanity?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know, that's crazy. I can't believe the I R.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: S Is coming after us with.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Like I didn't know that, but I've heard of that law.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: I had no idea that you said.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they've got Bedford's Law apps for your phone, so
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: you could actually tell if somebody's fucking with you or
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: not based off of the numbers they're giving you.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: What the fuck?
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, interesting, it's like chatchypt for fraud, right, But nobody
• 42:37
  Speaker 7: knows why it's like that, Like there's no definite reason
• 42:42
  Speaker 7: why numbers would be distributed like that, naturally versus unnaturally.
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: You know, they can't really explain why that law exists,
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: but it does.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: I think it's a signature. I think it's you know,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: kind of like with true crime. You know, the whoever
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: is the orchestrator of the crime leaves his signature. They're good,
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: all right.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: The comparison to the universe has one single organism is
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: his idea of cosmic sympathy. And all part of the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: cosmos are all parts of the cosmos are interconnected, like
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: organs in the body, all part of a living whole.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of like this idea like that we're
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: all connected, right, Like if you have a body and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: your finger gets hurt, then the whole organism, like your
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: whole self, responds to that. Right, And he says all
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: things must be unchained, and the sympathy and correspondence obtaining,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and anyone closely knit organism must exist first and intensely
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: in the all there must be one principle constituting this
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: unit of many forms of life and enclosing the several
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: members within the unity, while at the same time, precisely
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: as in each thing of detail, the parts to have
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: each a definite function. So in the all, the higher all,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: each several member must have its own task. This is
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: part of his argument against determinism and deterministic astrology. If
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: stars had direct power over human fate, then the principle
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: of distinct functions in the all would collapse. Stars would
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: overstep their role and humans would lose theirs. But in
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Platitis's metaphysics, each part of the cosmos must fulfill its
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: proper function for the harmony of the all. We all
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: participate in the cosmic harmony. If the universe is an organism,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: humans are the sensory part. Intelligence is the electricity and
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the brain and animating the organism. And that way, nosis
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: or novel thought could be a new sign apps from
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: the universal brain and interesting thought in relation to thought
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: forms that Grigore's chaos, magic, et cetera.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've often said myself, I think like in intelligence
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: is electricity, you know, they even use I find weird
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: about that is like even if you go back to uh,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: like the magic squares, when you start messing with what
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: people consider angels and demons, I think it's listed like
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: intelligences and spirits, you know, And I myself have even
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: said I thought some sigils were actually like circuit boards
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: or something to do with electricity. So it's just interesting
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: you even have that crossover intelligence.
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: I've heard recently that they're making the correspondence or correlation
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: with plasma and consciousness to your to your point, Nick.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. I like that. I'll have to keep
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: an eye on that. Thank you.
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, forgive my only topical knowledge of the idea.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: But oh that's too much, thank you.
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: What does that mean for fusion? Fusion power is just
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: pure plasma?
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, just running on souls?
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Right, Shoot it at an aggre.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Shoot it at right.
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: Well, think about orbs and they're predominance of the that shape.
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: When it comes to mysterious lights in the sky. There
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: you go, that's plasma.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Because I I I still think there's something to do
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: with the plasmaia blood has something to do with a
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: magical experience.
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: You got back that tis you got plasma.
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: And the development of our quality of our mitochondria leads
• 47:09
  Speaker 6: to all kinds of changes, right, which might be the
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: juice in that.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Are you good else?
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Yep, Yeah, just interesting because I'm I think that too,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: like that all intelligence is electricity, and I've been kind
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: of following that plasma as consciousness idea, but I'll continue here.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Plotinus quotes Thus each entity takes its origin from one principle,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and therefore, while executing its own function, works in with
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: every other member of that all from which its distinct
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: task has by no means cut it off. Each peron
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: forms its act, each receives something from the others, everyone
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: at its own moment, bringing its touch of sweet or bitter.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And there is nothing undesigned, nothing of chance in all
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the process. All is one scheme of differentiation, starting from
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the first and working itself out in a continuous progression
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: of kinds. So we're returning to that idea of multiplicity.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: And I roughly just added a couple pictures. But this one, two, three, four, five, six,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: seven is reminds me of this quote from the first
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: slide uh, where it says if there were no one,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: there would be no number, but only non being because
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: of the one, there are two, and so multiplicity from unity,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: difference is born, but the one itself remains without difference.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: Seven rays of light Oh jeez, right, yep, yeah, I mean.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: The light spectrum has to be part of this, uh,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: this algorithm, right, and we don't even know all of
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: those that spectrum. So you know, he continuously talks about
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: the one being this multiplicity principle, but obviously there has
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: to be something limiting that principle, right, And so this
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: is similar to the idea or the story of Uranus
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: and Saturn, right, where Urinus represents the unchecked production of
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: multiplicity and the castration of Uranus symbolizes the imposition of order,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: measure and limit on unbounded fertility. Time divides some portions
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: out what was previously undifferentiated, and undifferentiated also kind of
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: means like without form, like unmanifest.
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: Think about think about chronos and Uranus as being the
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: photon and then the speed of light limited by time,
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: and then you've got the formula kind of laid out
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: right there of how time cuts off light. You know,
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: Uranus is the god of the sky and that's where
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: all of these light forms come from. Like you know,
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: so you've got these geometric principles sort of embedded right there,
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: and the mythology itself. That's why I love the theogeny.
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: You guys haven't read the theogoeny.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Read it.
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: It's short.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: You eat a lot of good ideas from that.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: The universal organism is not static, it's a living pulse
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: in hierarchy. For it to work, you need emanation, which
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: is movement outward from the one. You need reversion, so
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: like this relationship between the one and what emanates from it,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: like recursively, you know where they're tied together and experiencing
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: each other, and you need limitation and form to shape
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: the multiplicity at each level. This triad is a hallmark
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: of neoplatonic metaphysics. In his Tractate on the Intellectual Beauty,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Platinus makes it to the Chronos myth. A says the God,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: fettered as in the Chronos myth to an unchanging identity,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: leaves the ordering of this universe to his son Zeus,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: for it could not be in his character to neglect
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: his rule within the divine sphere, and, as though stated
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: with the Authentic Beauty, seek a lordship to recent and
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: too poor for a mighty ignoring this lower world Chronos,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: the intellectual principle claims for himself his own father Uranus,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the absolute or one, with all the upward tending between them,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: and he counts all that tends to the inferior, beginning
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: from his son Zeus, the all soul as ranking beneath him.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Thus he solds he holds a mid position, determined on
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: the one side by the difference pferentiation implied in the
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: severance from the very highest, and on the other by
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: that which keeps him apart from the link between himself
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: and the lower. He stands between a great father and
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: an inferior son. But since that father is too lofty
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: to be thought of under the name of beauty, the
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: second god remains the primarily beautiful.
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: Well that gets right into Venus and Aphrodite, because what
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: happens after the severance You get the rise of Aphrodite
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: from the sea foam where he threw the member into
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: the ocean. Right, So it's almost like love is the
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: principle that then binds all the rest of the forces together,
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: sort of like the underlying principle behind all.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Of it, that cosmic sympathy. I guess if differentiation were unlimited,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: you'd get sheer chaos, infinite and distinguishable multiplicity without coherence.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Platinus insists that to be intelligible, things need form something
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: that defines that they are limit, a body that distinguishes
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: them from other things. When multiplicity is given limit, it
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: becomes structured multiplicity. The many are arranged in relation to
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: each other. Each one is distinct and knowable, the whole
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: forms of pattern or harmony rather than random fragments. And
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: then an example is music, right, And I think that
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: music is a great example of these forms. So like
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: if you had infinite sound without limit, it would all
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: just be noise, but it's shaped and by ratio and
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: measure into melody and harmony Platinas says soul. Then in
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: the same way is intent upon a ask of its
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: own and everything it does it counts as an independent
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: source of motion. It may take a direct course, or
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: it may I might have misspelled that divegate. But a lot.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Maybe you're supposed to say, I.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Don't know, I don't know, But a lot of justice
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: goes with every action in the universe, which otherwise would
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: be dissolved and is predurable because the entire fabric is
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: guided as much by the orderliness as by the power
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: of the controlling force, and in this order, the stars,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: as being no minor members of the heavenly system, are cooperators,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: contributing at once to its stately beauty and to its
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: symbolic quality. Their symbolic power extends to the entire realm
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: of sense, their efficacy only to what they patently do.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: For our part, Nature keeps us upon the work of
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: the soul as long as we are not wrecked in
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: the multiplicity of the universe. So yeah, I like this
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: because this just ties it all together. There's this law
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: of justice and that there is limitation.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: And I think that's what all this reality is about,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: is the limitation and being.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like they can't be form without limitation,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: and I think, no.
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: I'm messing with magic or whatever or whatever they consider
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: what was it honosis they would call it, or to
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: think that would be unraveling those limitations, breaking those limitations.
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: Back to Mercury again, right, so Mercury and Saturn are associated.
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: You've got that that same sort of thing going on here.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that reminds me too, because like if you
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: start looking into Iamblicus, he believes in like Hecata as
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: a psychopomp that can traverse through like the world soul
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: and the in use, and I think other trains of
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: thought would definitely consider that to be mercury. Right.
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: Well, they both have a similar psychopompic quality, but I
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: think one is the projective, one is the receptive, and
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: the three headed goddess would be the receptive version. You know,
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: she's associated with dogs as well, so there's there's some
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: sort of black dog association and snakes, so you've you've
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: also got the keys and in a lot of ways,
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: if you think about Vadicus, the goddess who was on
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: top of that mountain before they put the Vatican there,
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: really has that same sort of quality as Hecata over
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: in Greece or Turkey.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Actually, so the two.
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: Keys of the Vatican flag might be associated with some
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: sort of a control of goddess worship.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I think that there is some like people have made
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: some relation to like uh Asteria and stuff like that,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and that makes me think of goddess worship a lot.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Was that was that the last sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: Well, they had a lot of association with the daughter
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: of Demeter. Well, yeah, daughter of Demeter, which she was
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: kidnapped by Hades, right, and so that idea goes back
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: to Mesopotamia as well. They have this goddess going through
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: the underworld being stripped of different articles of clothing until
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: she's finally at the center and then she's got a
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: rise again. So it's the springtime kind of easter association.
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: And then you've got Nergall, which is like the complete
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: opposite of all of it, and he's like this bloody
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: god who rises in the spring to wage war on
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: all the rest of the tribes, because you know, to them,
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: spring is at a time of flourishing and everything else.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: That's war season. That's when you go over to your
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: neighbors and you steal all of his stuff season. So
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: it's kind of interesting how these different gods and goddesses
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: and associations are really heavily into the culture, and you know,
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: they still have a reflection of each other.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: Though when it comes to him talking about the stars
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: and stuff. Do you think he's putting it in the sense
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: that they're not stopping you from having the experience of
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: anosis or is it saying more of like it's not
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: like or it's you know, something to that degree, or
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: do you think he's saying, like, it really doesn't impact
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: your daily life that much, it stops you from achieving thing.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: How do you think he's like meaning it in that
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: sense too, when he talks about the stars not impacting
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: us as much as others things.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I think that he would agree that the stars, well,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: not the stars, right, but the pattern that the stars
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: are mirroring definitely has an effect on the material world.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: So it can affect things external to you and maybe
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: your b steal form, but it's not going to affect
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: the soul within because that's independent, you know, and that's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: just kind of attached to you by choice. But I
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: think that he would believe that it's up to us
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: to kind of contemplate the soul and contemplate the higher
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: sphere so that we can we separate ourselves from the
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: beasteal world, which would be more ruled by those patterns
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and you've become more aligned. And
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: then through that alignment with the higher sphere, you know,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: you would explore that and contemplate, and eventually, through that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: contemplation and this act of dialect dialectic, you would reach
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: a hinnosis. So it's about kind of overcoming the best
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: steal and becoming an alignment with the higher sphere.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: I think it works on the same level that you
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: know magic works. In the system, everything is associated, and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: we could choose those associations to some degree, and so
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: by making those new associations through actions and everything else
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: and symbols as well, you can kind of move from
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: one area to another in the same way that you
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: know free will acts on nature. So I think it's
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: all about associations and how these associations play.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Out, you know.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: I think also we have to kind of consider as
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: with and I think Nick and I kind of went
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: into all that whenever we were looking at the gematria
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: and numerology and isosophe and all that other stuff. You
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: have to keep in mind what was happening at the
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: time when all this was being thought about, thought about
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: or thought upon in that was this kind of like
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: a pendulum thought from the current thought that everything was
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: ruled by the movement of the stars. In that were
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: they existing in a time where the stars dictated everyone's actions, thoughts, behavior, whatever.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: And so his his his, I guess rebuttal to this
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: is that maybe it's not And I agree, but I
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: think a lot of it too. Is that I think
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: some people take it all the way to the other side,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: and I think when we forget what was being said,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: we kind of, you know, listen to the extreme part
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: of it, not keeping in mind that at the time
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: everybody was on the all the way on the other side.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: So I don't know, just something to kind of insert.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: Well, what patterns do you associate these stars with? You know,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: I mean all of them are associative, so there have
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: to be some sort of relationship based off of the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: associations in our minds. The way we associate concepts and
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: ideas are basically how we live out our lives. And
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: so if all you're doing is trying to connect the
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: nuts with these stars, you're not going to be doing
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: much else, and so it becomes determinative at that point.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: You know, I think it's all I think you have
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: to keep it all in context. I think it's all true.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: Let me say that, I think there is truth in
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: every single theory and every single concept. And it's like
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: when they say contemplate the soul. I think it is
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: that indicates that we have to look upon each theory
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: or thought or philosophy and tease out what is truth
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: and what is not, and that percentage varies within our
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: own experiences. So one truth for one person is not
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: going to be absolute truth for another. And that's when
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: you say, contemplate the soul, like what is true to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: you and then be ruled by that.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Right. So Titus would definitely, you know, he speaks of
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: archetypes a lot, and so he believes in these ideal forms,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: these ideal archetypes, and these eternal truths, and his tractate
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: on the Dialectic, he talks about this kind of contemplation
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: a lot, where it's this act of comparing and contrasting things,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: recognizing how things are similar, how things are different, what's true,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: what's false? What are eternal truths? What are things broken
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: down to their most simplest parts. And so I think
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: that goes along with a lot of what you were saying,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: this idea of kind of recognizing those patterns to understand
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: the role that you play and then to ultimately recognize
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: the the One for what it is. And there's a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: lot of discerning that has to take place to fully
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: recognize the One.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something I find interesting is how, yeah, I know
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: Platinus was big on talking about this stuff. With with
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: the stars. You know once like Marsilio Ficino uh started
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: rept you know, translating his stuff. You actually see like
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: with him, uh, it was Tiger Brahe and a few
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: other people. When you start covering them or looking into
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: them because of them being into this, that whole idea
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: is seemed to resurge again, like at some point in
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: between now and then in between these inniads but kind
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: of saying this stuff and then it changes to where
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: people do think it totally dictates everything. And then these
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: people come back out because this gets translated, it starts
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: repeating it again. It's kind of funy. You'll see that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: happen around the Renaissance time is a I know Marceillia
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: Facheetah and Tyco Brahe when I covered them, they definitely
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: had a little bit of a different opinion of the people,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: and they're saying it definitely can influence, but it is
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: not keeping you in change.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: Isn't it funny that conspiracy thinking has become the new
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: form of dominant sort of superstition online.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 5: Some eras it's it's all about the stars, and other
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: eras it's all about you know, conspiracy it's almost a
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: frequency between the two.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's it, Like it's interesting even like what
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: you know, I was thinking about that kind of what
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: Lisa was getting at, is that like even just an
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: outcome to pushing back on an idea that's just constantly
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: being forced. You're just coming up with something different now,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: you know, right, Yeah, very.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: Interesting in that last sentence relative to what we're talking about.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: For our part, nature keeps us upon the work of
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 6: the soul, which is like we're all we're all doing
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 6: our own mission. Maybe it's to be the best shoemaker
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 6: two hundred years ago, but it's all self development internally also,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 6: And that last part, as we are as long as
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 6: we are not wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: or maybe one could interpret that is, you know, as
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: long as we're not as long as we don't become
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: obsessed with one idea or another into a detrimental pattern,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 6: you know, because all these things, as Lisa you said,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: there's truth in so many different things that sound divergent,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 6: but there's actually truth in them, and in the different
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 6: planets and the different star So is that that that
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 6: idea of being wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 6: is just like wrecked by all these ideas.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: Maybe I would agree, And you know how like they say,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: don't bind yourself to this earthly realm. Well, in essence,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: if you are governing yourselves by the planets, that's still
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: binding yourself to the earthly realm, because well, I mean,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: it's what you see, and what you see is earthly.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. China's definitely think so the planets
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: is just like part of the like no different than.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: Trees, or I would agree, I would agree, and I
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: almost I would almost guess that maybe at the time
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: when he was walking the streets, people did not I
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: think the planets were also governing the earthly realm, you know,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, no, no, that's not how I want to
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: say it, that the planets were also part of keeping
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: you tethered to the earthly realm. By looking at the
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: planets and saying that the planets had an influence, they
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: think that they're trying to be metaphysical or you know, supernatural.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: But he still was trying to say, no, you're still
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: being governed by this this binding to the earth.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: Well, think about how important the stars would be to
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: an agricultural or agrarian.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, and it I think it's part of
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: an important evolution anyway, because the patterns that they recognized
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: and the stars, you know, opened up the train of
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: thought that would lead to a greater understanding of the universe.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: So a lot, a lot of things start that way.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: I was thinking too with what Ethan last said about
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: that last sentence. You know, as long as we're not
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe, you know, I
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: just think of chaos again, because you don't know how
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: it's going to overflow, you know, and it's it's always
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: going to be something different, some sort of differentiation. And
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: you know, we are unfortunately on the bottom of the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: totem pole, I mean above rocks, I guess, but we're
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: still when it comes to like the intellectual sphere, we're
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: at the bottom. So it's just that idea of like
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: it's going to continuously overflow into things that are different
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: and new and novel, and you just don't know how
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: that's going to affect you and affect the universe.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: So and you know Arizona that he kind of did
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: he get into something speaking of the intellectualism, in that
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: some people are more aware than others, be based on
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: how many times you've incarnations, right, in that some people
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: are going to be much more hyper aware of you know,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: the metaphysical or whatever versus people that are brand new
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: in terms of incarnations or I forgot how he referred
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: to it. And so when you think of like, you know,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: don't get wrecked by the multiplicity of the universe. Everyone
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: has their own measuring stick of what is real and
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: what is metaphysical, right, And I'm saying metaphysical lightly like
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: you know, what is not like outside of reality in
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: that based on what he was saying, some individuals are
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: more hyper aware than others, and so you can't expect
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: a person that is not aware of the metaphysical to
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: have the same measuring stick that you do. And I
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: think that that that when we look at the different
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: truths or how much is true in a theory or whatever,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: we also have to consider what measuring stick are we like,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: what rubric are we using to gauge And it's not
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: going to be the same as you know, for me,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: as it is the next person or my neighbor or
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: anything like that, And how they gauge it is not wrong.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: It's just how their soul is now, you know, transversing
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: this understanding of who it is and how it is
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: and how it's evolving within that trajectory.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well about think about the word logos, right, so
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: in the Greek it would be the word is almost
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: pure metaphysics like that, that's, you know, the pure state
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: of metaphysical matter, because as you're speaking and discussing, you're
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: almost creating these different ideas and thoughts in a creative sphere.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: So you've got a connection to the universe on a
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 5: personal level with sound frequencies. So in some ways you
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: could see that we're on the bottom of heaven, but
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: we're at the top of hell, and maybe we keep
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: trying to crab bucket each other back down when we
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: could be using our speech and everything else to edify
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: and lift up. So there's a there's an element of
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: positivity there, I think.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: I think I heard. So we say, like the best
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: part of hell and the worst part of heaven. So
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: that's where we're stuck in right now.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: We're the bacon layer and the blt.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely talks about how like every part of
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: the universe is working together to kind of elevate itself
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: to a higher sphere. Right, So that's it's pretty interesting.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: I forgot what else I was gonna say.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: One thing I did want to say about the the planets.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: You know, when I look at it akabalistic form, I kind
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: of go back and look at it almost like the
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: way I think Headliss said something earlier about frequency and vibration.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: I just look at it as like those those planets,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: or just different frequencies that we are, times of chaos
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: of change that we went through before we ended up
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: in physical form, you know, or it's just representing that
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: something that that or light going through different frequencies.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: Do you mean like a like we all have different
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: starting points kind of.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I think probably the same starting point, just maybe
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: the different reflections of the different way different frequencies that
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: we all went through to, I mean, into our own
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: form that we are in a human there would probably
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: be like, you know, a certain I'm just gonna make
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: it up like this, like a certain frequency be seen
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: a certain number, but then all the little stuff in
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: between is what makes us all a little separately different
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: than the next one. But we all fall into this
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: one certain frequency something like that and you go through
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: like you know again, like all that different shit that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: you know might determine you don't know, I wouldn't say
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: maybe a hype, but like just certain things like that
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: might kind of determine like how you ended up popping out.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it certainly seems so right because if the
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: be steal, you can have tendencies that can be related to,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: you know, an ordering of the planets at your time
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: of birth, but you can evolve that. Then it does
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: kind of indicate that you do have some sort of
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: starting point that is influenced by the environment of matter,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: the material world, at the time of your birth, and
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: then kind of how that material world unfolds over time
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: is definitely going to affect you as well if you're
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: not taking charge of your own will to like raise
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: yourself above the material And I think that it's interesting
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: too because I think, like what Lisa was talking about
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: about kind of these starting points and navigating up to
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: the one, right, Platina talks about these different starting points
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: and these different archetypes and kind of how people are
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: naturally inclined to take these paths. So, for example, if
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: you are really drawn to aesthetics or music or something
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: like that, like compositions of beauty. Then you might recognize
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: these patterns and through through those types of things, right,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: and then through reflecting on those patterns of aesthetics or
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: musical composition. You know, that can lead you to deeper
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: contemplation and then to the one. Or if you are
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: just naturally born like virtuous, more virtuous, and more of
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: a meta physician, then it's more of a direct path.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: But we all definitely have these starting points and these
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: different patterns that we notice that will lead us to
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: that evolution up through the intellect into the one.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: Have you ever heard of nominative determinism. No, that's the
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 5: idea that names can have an outcome on a system.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 5: So like if you think of a woman named Karen,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 5: that name is kind of determining how she is.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Right. That's such a good example too of like you
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: don't know how the multiplicity will work because ten years
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: ago Karen was a fine name to have.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: F it's not.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: I think that when he talks about how and you
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: were mentioning aesthetics and music composition and all that other stuff,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: all that is math, and I think I forgot who
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: it was Nick. We were talking about this but beauty.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 4: How we perceive things that are beautiful, just for instance,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: a human face. What we perceive as beauty is actually
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: recognition of symmetry. We recognize that there is high order
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 4: of symmetry on someone's face and then perceive them as beauty.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: And from a biological standpoint, when we see high order
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: of symmetry and we perceive it as in a brain,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 4: then we recognize harmonially they may be someone perfect to
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: mate with, because that means that their DNA has high
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: order of symmetry, high order of organization, and therefore they
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: may be the most suitable to mate with or have
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 4: offspring with. And so when we think about high order symmetry,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: we start thinking about the Fibonacci sequence, about the golden ratio,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: about pie and all these other higher order mathematical concepts.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: And when we get into some of these philosophers that
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: talk about the One or the source, they are in
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: relation to symmetry and mathematics, and there are many of
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: them that believe that you can math your way to God.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: And so I think all of that kind of goes
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: hand in hand with itself. How our brains perceive beauty, esthetics, symmetry,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: and so forth. So I don't know, And the soul
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: is usually inclined towards symmetry, whether it's music, composition, literature,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: or anything like that, because that is I think part
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: of a reflection of the soul realizing the math towards source.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Platinis does talk about how them met a physition
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: has to become adapt at mathematics, and I think that
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: recognizing beauty is like recognizing these patterns of order in
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: this cosmic harmony.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 3: Is anything else anybody wanted to do? You have more slides? Well, okay,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: I thought.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 5: It kind of was it Marcus Orrelius that focused on
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: the good, the true, and the beautiful? He was almost
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 5: making a metaphysical statement and everybody just sort of took
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: it as like a moral statement. But like these are
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 5: these are ways of seeing the world that exist outside
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 5: of what we know of those words. You know, there
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 5: there's something different and something deeper to that concept. And
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: I think that's probably why the Stoics were so uh
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 5: so interesting to everybody, because they kind of went along
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 5: that same pathway of hermetic thinking more you know, neo
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: platonic thinking.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that beauty or that idea of arrows, right, it's
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: almost like this drive towards the one. It's like, not
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: like erotic, but kind of like in that. I mean
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: that is a path to the one, right to like
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: recognizing patterns or whatever. But there is just this innate
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: craving and like attraction towards the one that draws us
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: in that parallels and beauty and certain sensory thing.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 5: Think about the Greeks obsession with beauty. That's the whole
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 5: purpose that they thought. It was getting them closer to
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 5: God and their way of thinking.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: I mean it's like even when you get into the Kabbalah,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: I that's like an idea of a sphere. You know, beauty,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: I mean even when it comes into like a cultism
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: or depending on how you're taking and it can even
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: have a negative connotation in a sense. You know, the
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: beauty of the bedazzles, what took you off the course
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: of what you were doing. You know, that made you
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: fall in love with something other than I guess your
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: commitment to being a magician something like that.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: Well, I think it's all got to line up. That's
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 5: how you get home. You've got it all in a row.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 5: That's the way it's supposed to, you know, flourish and
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: blow them.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: I think when the beauty makes you lust, that's the problem. Yeah,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: but uh, was anything else that you guys wanted to
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: say or ed? I think that was great. Actually I
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: had a really good time with him. Absolutely, Yeah, Erros
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: will definitely have to move on to another one. We
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: got to do on ostssism or something or on site. Nice.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah we should do on site at some point.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would really like that. But yeah, this was
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: really fun. I really had a good time. I appreciate
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: everybody else are jumping on as well. Was there anything
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: that you wanted to plug errors or anything you wanted
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: to mention before we wrap it up?
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: Nothing that I didn't mention in the beginning, But I
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: really appreciate you guys having me on and it was
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: too bad an get to go over on site a
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: bit more. I feel like I jypped you a little bit, right, No.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: Well, these things, honestly, there's a lot to them. So
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, really trying to stick to of these into
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: one episode, you know, it could be a lot. You know,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: you may not do injustice if you try to crunch them.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: So not a problem is you know, I'm not going
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: anywhere right now? So I'm sure we can do another
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: one down the road. So yeah, real quick, I just
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: want to let people know if they have not listened
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: to the Platina show that I did, please go check
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: it out. And if you're interested in that stuff, go
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: check out her channel. She does cover the any ads.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: I will get her links of I forgot to add them.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: I forgot to put anybody's links. Actually, after the show,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: I will throw in her links so you can go
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 3: check out her Twitter and her YouTube. But thank you
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: very much, Erro. So let everybody know where they can
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: find you as well, if you.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Can find me on Twitter at Arrows to Eat Those
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: and on YouTube as Arrows Up.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: And again, thank you so much for coming on. I'm
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: glad you responded. I really appreciate it. That was a
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: good time, and yeah, of course, of course, you know,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: we'll definitely get you back on again. And my man, Ethan,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: please let everybody know what's up with you and where
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: they can on your amazing work and your books.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: Pisa Aros, that was awesome, very inspiring. Thank you for sharing.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 6: I'm easy to find on the usual social media sites
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 6: and Ethan Indigo Smith on Amazon too. I got a
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 6: few books and yeah, I appreciate talking with you guys
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 6: as always. Thanks for putting this together.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: Of course, of course, and go check out his books.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: He's got a plethor of so I'm sure there's one
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: in there that you'll like. And my man, Headless Giant,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: what is going on?
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: Sir?
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: How you doing?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 5: You can find me on x at the Headless Giant
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 5: and also on YouTube, and if you have any occult
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 5: or strange or magical experiences that you want to tell
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 5: the world about on Thursdays, you can send it to
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 5: me at the Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: Thank you for this episode. It was a great time.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, thank you Heller, So I appreciate you coming
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: on and contributing. And lastly, but Ales, Lisa, what is
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: going on? How are you? Thank you very much much
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: for joining us.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you Nick, Thank you for inviting me on Fellow Rejects.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: Always great to chop it up with you. Airs up.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: You did amazing. I really really liked your presentation and
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 4: definitely I think with this topic, I think it was
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: good to concentrate on just this itself because you could
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 4: deep dive into some of the other stuff way more
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: and we would probably not do it. We would do
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 4: it a disservice if we were just kind of picking
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: and choosing. I think, like actually going concentrating on this
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: is really good. I love that you picked the specific
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: ones to talk about it hit on so many different
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: episodes that Nick has covered recently. So and then of
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 4: course Nick's amazing. Latina's so thank you so much. The
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: only thing to plug is soirly Lisa on Twitter, and
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: please check out the Afficult Research Institute dot org where
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: some of the rejects like that and head lists as well,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: has contributed to some projects literarily and checks out there
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: a cult Research Intoitute dot org.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you very much, Lisa. I appreciate it.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you I'm glad you made it. I appreciate
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: your contribution. And again, Erros, I really appreciate you coming on.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 3: I had a really good time. I needed that. It
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: was really something that I wanted to talk about. I
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: was looking forward to it, and it was a good
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: way to start off my Saturday. So I appreciate it,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: and we'll definitely do this again again. Thank you everybody
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: in the chat. I really appreciate everybody here. There's a
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: lot of people here, from the beginning to the end,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: and that's what's up, and that's why I go live.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: And uh yeah, glad everybody enjoyed it. And until the
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: next one, everybody be well later