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“Holiday mailbag!” · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Language supposedly has all these rules.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Most of us never have to think about those rules,
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: but the hidden hand of language guides nearly every interaction
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: we have with other people, determining whether we connect, entertain, confuse, insult,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: or dazzle the people we communicate with. In Radio Lingo,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: the new podcast from Duolingo and Crooked Media, we explore
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: how language shapes.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Our world and how our world shapes language.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I'm Amad El-Yakri. I'm an audio journalist and James Beard
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Award winning writer.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I am in awe of.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Language, its complexity and its simplicity, the way we can
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: use it to create both distance and understanding.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be your guide.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Join us as we take you on a linguistic journey.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: From Crooked Media and Duolingo, this is Radiolingo. New episodes
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: of Tuesdays on your favorite podcast apps.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Welcome to pod save america i'm john favreau i'm dan
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: pfeiffer on the pod today our annual holiday mailbag where
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: we answer some of your questions so exciting What a tradition.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: What a tradition. Quick housekeeping note. Pod Save America and
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Crooked Media listeners have done so much since we launched
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: in 2017. Everything from all the work you did to
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: flip the house to raising over $ 2 million to support
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Fair Fight. You should all be very, very proud of
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: your work. And so we compiled some of your biggest
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: achievements in an impact report called Is This Hope I Feel?
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: You can check it out at crooked.com slash impact. So
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: check it out. Pat yourselves on the back and let
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: it inspire you before we head into 2020 and ask
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: you to do more work.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I see that my suggestion of naming it slightly less
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: cynical did not take.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: You know, Dan, that might have got lost in the
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: email traffic.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: All right. Let's start with some questions. We're going to
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: start topical, and then we're going to go in all
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: kinds of different directions.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Sweet.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Isabel Kudel, I'm going to say, from Instagram, asked, could
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: the House impeach Trump twice? Take it easy. We just
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: got through the first one. Yes. Yeah, technically.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, they can impeach him a million times.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, every day. Could have been impeachment a day. But
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: let's hope we don't have to. Let's hope we have
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: a different president by then.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Look, anything is on the table in the second term.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is an interesting question just in that
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: there is some worry and concern among many, I think
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: rightfully so, that he's going to get acquitted. And then
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: what happens when he commits a whole bunch more crimes
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: between now and Election Day? Or potentially trying to rig
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: the election, which is the abuse of power he's currently
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: impeached for.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a concern. I would say I'm concerned about that.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: But that was an argument against him being impeached. But
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: there's a flip side of that argument, which is what
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: if the president commits a patently obvious crime admitted to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: on national television? He isn't impeached. Wouldn't that also encourage
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: him to do more crimes?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Right. I mean, this is the problem here is. You
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: can say to Democrats, you know, and Brian Boiler's made
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: this case, like keep the inquiry open in case there's
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: more impeachable crimes. You'd say we've got to drag it out.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: We've got to include emoluments. We've got to include Mueller.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: We're going to include this. All of this rests on
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: can you get any Republicans in Congress to ever vote
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: to convict this guy? And it seems as if the
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: answer is going to be no. And they are impervious
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: to political pressure on this kind of stuff, right? I mean, that's,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: so like the number of crimes he commits, like we just,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: we have to beat him at the ballot box and
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: we have to beat the Republicans who are trying to
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: protect him.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: This is not about some sort of magical powers of
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: persuasion that Trump has or intimidation that Trump has. It
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: is about a broken democracy that drowns out the political
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: power of the majority of Americans because it puts the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: decision about whether a president can be held accountable for
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: their crimes in the hands of an entirely anti-democratic institution
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: like the Senate.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay. Laura Renee on Twitter asks, I still want
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: to hear how focus groups work. I don't know where
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: the still's from. Are they paid? How do you find
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: these mythical swing voters? How much time do you spend
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: with them? Is it hard to keep your face straight
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: when they say they still might vote for Donald John Trump?
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Go for it. You're the focus group guy.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: So we worked with a polling firm Joel Benenson's polling firm,
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: who is our friend and Barack Obama's pollster. Last time
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: I did it, I worked with David Binder and his
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: research firm. He connected focus groups for Barack Obama.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Also our friend.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Also our friend, David Binder. There's plenty of polling firms
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: out there that can do this. So the deal with
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: focus groups are they're not just political. A lot of
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: companies do this for consumer focus groups. And I don't
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: know exactly the science of how they go out to people.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: I guess that's the secret sauce of the polling firm.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: But I will say when they recruit people to do
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: the focus group, they don't tell the people they're recruiting
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: exactly what the focus group is going to be about.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: So you don't know you're going to a political focus group.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: You could go to a focus group for some new product.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: But you ask people a number of questions so you
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: can get, this is where the social science comes in,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: you can get the exact demographics you're looking for in
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: a specific voting group because you ask people a whole
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: bunch of questions in sort of the application for the
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: focus group that you can figure out who they voted for,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: what party they're from, their age, other demographic characteristics, how
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: much they watch the news, what news sources they watch.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: So you can really narrow it down to the kind
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: of group that you want. How do you find these
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: mythical swing voters? You pay them. You do pay them. Yeah,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: they're paid a small stipend. I don't exactly know how
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: much it is, but it's pretty small. How do you
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: find these mythical swing voters? I don't know, but they,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: you know, Benenson's group was incredible at this because I asked,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: I was very specific. I wanted to find four different
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: types of swing voters who I thought would be critical
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: in the 2020 election. And, you know, specifically when I
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: went to Miami for that focus group, I wanted people
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: who voted for Barack Obama in 2012 and then stayed
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: home in 2016 or voted third party because so many,
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: we talk so much about the Obama Trump voters. We
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: don't talk enough about the people who stayed home. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: I also said, because The people who did stay home
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: and don't tend to vote tend to disproportionately be younger
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: and black and Latino. I wanted to make sure that
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: the focus group was very diverse. And they found like
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: 20 of those people for me. And I could call
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: the list down to 10. So it was actually really,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: really useful. How much time do you spend with them?
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I spent an hour and a half with each group
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: of people. And then it said, is it hard to
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: keep your face straight? It was a little bit because
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: all I told people was because I didn't want to
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: let people know who I am. I didn't want to
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: bias them in any way. And so I said I
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: was producing a show on politics and voting. And I
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: had to then act like I am not a political expert.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: So when they said things that are.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: How hard was that for you? Look, I had to
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: show them I wasn't that smart.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Not even an expert. I had to act like I
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: didn't know really anything about politics. So I got some
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: questions too, like, so what is in the Medicare for
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: All plan? And I tried to act like I had
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: heard about it on the news. Like I'm, you know,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I'm just someone who pays attention to the news once
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: in a while. And you do hear some really wild shit.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: you know? But the key to a focus group is
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: you want everyone to talk and to be honest and
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: to feel comfortable. So you don't want to shame anyone.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: When someone says something that's a little off, you don't
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: want to, you know, you don't want to make them
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: feel bad about it. So all you can do as
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: a moderator is really just sort of sit back and
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: let people talk amongst themselves. And it is interesting on
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: somebody like in Milwaukee, I did the Obama Trump voters
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: and people were so shy about saying that they voted
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: for Donald Trump. And then when one person did, suddenly
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: another person did. And then the whole group suddenly realized
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: they were all Trump voters, and they felt a little
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: more comfortable. But yeah, it's pretty fascinating. Have you sat
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: in on focus groups?
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Yes. I've never moderated, but much of my political career,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I sat through the half window and watching it through
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: the mirror or on a video situation. And I have
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: watched them online for hours of my life. I will
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: never get back during the run-up to Barack Obama's re-election campaign.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I find them incredibly useful and illuminating, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: we will have most of these focus groups not just
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: in the wilderness that's coming out in January, wilderness season two,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: but you'll be able to see video of the focus
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: groups themselves on the wilderness website, so that'll be cool.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: All right. Quinton Van Zile from Twitter asks, The election
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: cycle is lasting two years now. Is it not a
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: good idea to shift the primaries back six months to
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: give more focus to the general and lessen the financial
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: burden on the primary candidates? Dan, what do you think?
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: So this question is, so instead of the Iowa caucus
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: being in February of 2020, it would be in September
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of 2019. Is that the- I get, yeah. I think
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: we would be better off compressing, not extending.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: And- The problem is it isn't when the primary itself
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: happens it starts the campaign. The starting gun is decided
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: by when the first candidate gets in the race. And
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: so when Bill Clinton ran for president in 1992, he
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: didn't get in the race until the fall of 91.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama announced his exploratory committee on January 13, 2007,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a full year before the Iowa caucus. And so they're
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: getting longer and longer. Elizabeth Warren announced on New Year's Eve,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: so 13 months before. And so the thing that drives
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: the length of the primary is not the date of
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the primary. It's our campaign finance laws that require you
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: to spend all this time raising money in order to
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: be able to pay for your organization, your ads, et cetera.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I wish the primary was a lot shorter
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: because one of the consequences of a long primary is
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: we've been there. These candidates start running out of real
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: differences that they have with each other. which they do.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: And you have to keep making news and you have
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: to keep, you know, keeping things interesting. And you're trying to,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: you know, get ahead in the polls. And it gets
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: a little nasty. And if you have a situation where
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: the primary becomes nastier than the general, because the general
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: is only three months long, it's certainly not good for
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I think there is, regardless of what happens in the
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: 2020 election, I hope there's a very big thoughtful conversation
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: about how we change the calendar and how we select
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: our nominee in a way that makes more political sense
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: in the current age.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Alan Cohn on Facebook asks, since the Democratic base
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: is about the same size as the Republican base, Why
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: is it an effective political strategy for the Republicans to
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: exclusively focus on their base, but not for the Democrats?
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Because of a little thing called the Electoral College.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: And gerrymandering.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: And gerrymandering.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: And the fucking Senate. Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, the problem we have here is there are
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: more Democratic voters and more potential Democratic voters than there
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: are Republican voters, potential Republican voters. The problem is they
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: are not geographically distributed evenly. If everything was decided in
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a popular vote, a Democratic-based strategy could work. But unfortunately,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: it does not work that way. And the primary base
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of the Republican Party, which is white men, often without
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: a college degree, are massively overrepresented in the Senate, overrepresented
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: in the Electoral College, and gerrymandering, as it has happened
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: all across countries, and specifically to give them more power
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and to dilute the power of voters of color.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: The other problem is the Republican base is very homogeneous
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: at this point. It is Older white men without a
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: college education and then white women without a college education
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: as well make up a part of the Republican base.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: So when you're talking about that as a base, you
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: have sort of an easier message policy agenda because you're
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: messaging to people who are more the same and ideologically
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: the same as well. The Democratic base is much more heterogeneous,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: much more diverse, not just in its identity, but in
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: its ideology.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: In its media diet.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: In its media diet. And so we are trying to
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: have a coalition that includes more moderates, more centrists, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: then very, very progressive people, center left people, democratic socialists.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Like we have to have a coalition where Joe Manchin
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are in the same coalition. And that's
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: when you talk about, Oh, is our coalition bigger than theirs?
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: It is, but it's only bigger than theirs. If we
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: include both of those kinds of people, the mansions of
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: the world and the AOCs of the world. And so,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: That makes it a lot harder for the Democrats to
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: just talk about their base than for the Republican Party.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's hard. The better part is that we're right
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and they're wrong.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and our party looks more like America than theirs does.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: 90% of House Republicans are white men.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: But we are a big tent, big tent party, and
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: it's pretty noisy under that tent.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Nora Hagen from Facebook asks, thoughts on Trump suggesting he
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: may skip the debates?
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I think that's highly likely.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: You think it's likely?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So imagine this, right? The Democratic nominee, whoever they
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: may be, and the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, have to
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: agree on three debate moderators. Can you find three human
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: beings who could plausibly moderate a debate that Trump and
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, people.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we always fucking give in. And so he'll say,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Chris Wallace, and we'll be like, okay, Chris Wallace.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, and that may be fine, but it's... After that,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: so maybe we have one debate. What happens after that?
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: I know, it's... Like, yeah, think of what he said
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: about NBC, ABC, CBS, like CNN, right? I mean, it is...
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: I worry that at the end of the day he
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: may show up for these debates, but the effect of
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: the drama before that when he threatens over and over
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: again to not show up is working the refs. And
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: so he's going to get the debate moderators that he
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: wants because... the Democrats are going to say, well, we want,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: you know, we want a debate. We want them to
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: show up at the debates. And so we, you know,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: the debate commission is going to try to like appease Trump.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Like everyone else tries to fucking appease Trump because he's
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: like crying and screaming like he always does.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: But ultimately it's a negotiation between a set of negotiators
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: picked by the Democratic nominee and a set of ones
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: picked by Trump. And they're going to have to agree.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: And if it seems hard to imagine what they can
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: possibly agree on other than Chris Wallace, who Trump also hates.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. Let's, Chris Wallace, who said like Trump is
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: a threat to the free press, you know, the other day.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: So that's probably not good either.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And I think partly how Trump is doing will determine this, right?
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: There was some speculation he would not debate last time,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: but he had a very different calculus because he was losing. Yeah.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Or so we all thought. And he was also in
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: it for attention back then because this was part of
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: a larger play to fill the unfillable hole in his ego.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: But this is different, right? Where if he is winning
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and he like, and he thinks he could get his
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: clock cleaned by Elizabeth Warren or Pete Buttigieg or whoever else,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: he may not show up.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: Do you think it hurts the Democratic candidate if Donald
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Trump doesn't show up?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe. Very, very maybe. You have to make a case
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: against Trump, and he already has a giant megaphone as
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: president and controlling American social media, so he can get
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: his message out.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Could you make a case that it would hurt him,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: that the Democrat could say that Donald Trump's too scared
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: to debate me?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: It could, and it's going to depend on the ability
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of the Democrat to make that case. But there's nothing
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: about our current media environment to suggest the headlines won't be,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Trump says he won't debate.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Democrats say that's not fair.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: The Democrat says he should. News at 11. So I think,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and you know, and you just have, when you are
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: less well-known and you were making a case against the government,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you have, you know, we always think about campaigns in
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: terms of five moments, right? There is the moment you
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: pick your vice presidential nominee where you will get huge
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: saturation coverage. There is your convention speech. And there are
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the three debates. And so if Trump could starve the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Democrat of those three moments, that may not be great
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: for the Democrat.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: I wonder if the solution is just for the Democrat
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: who want to show up at the debate to push
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: to get an empty stage by themselves to just deliver
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: their message.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure the... group of old Washington wisebeards who
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: we have put in.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: The both sides patrol.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the both sides patrol will be sure to be
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: totally willing to do that.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Well, we should start yelling about that now then. Krishan
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Patel asks from Twitter. Please talk about the structural bias
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: of the U.S. Senate towards white conservatives and how to
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: fix it. We just talked about this a little bit
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: with sort of the Republican base, but we should talk
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: about the Senate itself and the structural bias of why
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: the Senate is so bad. What do you think?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I wrote an entire chapter in my book on
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: this because I think it is one of.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: What is that book called again?
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: It's called Untrumping America. Right.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: You can order it now, right?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: You can say that because I promised everyone that I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: would stop doing book pitches until after the year.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: You can order it now, everyone. Untrumping America by Dan Pfeiffer.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Go on Amazon and wherever you get your books. Excellent.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Think of the math of this.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Right now, it is mathematically possible for 18% of the
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: United States population to control the Senate majority.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: That is fucking brutal.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And that problem is getting worse over time as you
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have population decline in these rural, mostly white states headed
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to with either just general population decline or young people
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: moving and people of color moving to bigger, bluer states.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And then you have the same amount of power. California
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and Wyoming have the same amount of power. And that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: is a huge gigantic problem where If Democrats don't have
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a put forward aggressive solution to this, to begin with
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: a filibuster and adding states like D.C., we're going to
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: be in a world where a shrinking white conservative minority
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: has veto power over the policy preferences of a growing, diverse,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: progressive majority in this country. And that is an unsustainable
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: problem for a country that prides itself on the concept
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: of democracy.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: And just to understand a real example of this, The
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Senate is even more problematic than the Electoral College in
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: this regard, right? Because we talk all about, you know,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: are we going to flip Texas at some point? You
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: flip Texas finally and Texas turns blue and the prize is, what,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: 34 electoral votes, I think, is Texas? Something like that.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: So that really helps in the Electoral College. You flip
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Texas blue in the Senate, two, two more senators. Meanwhile,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: all of these other states, like your Michigans, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: all these states that have been harder and harder for Democrats,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: you start losing those senators to the Republican side. And
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: we cannot, there's just not enough states right now that
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: are diversifying, that are getting bigger, which are states like Texas, Arizona, Georgia,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: North Carolina. There's just not many more of those that
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Democrats can pick up. You can get yourself over the
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: next 10, 20 years to 51, 52 votes in the Senate,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: You can never get to 60. So again, everyone, oh,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: who cares about the filibuster? How are you going to
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: stop the filibuster? There is no universe with the filibuster
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: in place where Democrats will ever be able to pass
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: not just progressive legislation, any legislation.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: You want to name a fucking post office?
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll need Republican votes for that.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: The question I would leave everyone with is, do we
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: really need two Dakotas?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. We talked about adding Puerto Rico and D.C.,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: No one's ever talking about taking away states.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying I've been, I've been trying to crunch
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the numbers on what, I don't know if we subsumed
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: West Virginia into Virginia, whether that would be a net
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: positive for Democrats.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Um, okay. Ricky blank on Instagram asks, what issues do
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: you feel the media hasn't given enough attention to since
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: the impeachment inquiry has started? Uh, all the issues.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All the issues.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: Yes. We haven't, I've noticed it here. You know, like we've,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: We've wanted to talk about impeachment because it's in the news.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: And I think that, you know, it was the right decision.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: But there's a lot of issues that have flown under
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: the radar that are not under the radar issues. Like,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: you know, the planet's on fire and it's an existential crisis.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: That's one that's on the top of my mind.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Just to pick one. Also, Trump has committed many more
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: impeachable offenses that are not getting the attention they deserve
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: because we're focused on the other one.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. There's, I mean, we're recording this the
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: day after the last Democratic debate. There's a story in
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: the Washington Post this morning on the front page about
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: how A senior White House official said that it was
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Putin himself who told Trump that Ukraine actually meddled in
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: the election, and Trump believes it because he said, Putin
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: told me so, and calls him my friend.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I noticed it on the way into the office. I
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, that seems like a big story.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that as we were walking past the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: televisions here briefly on the CNN Chiron.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: The other thing, too, is, and we all talked about
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: this for the debate last night, They started talking about
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: court reform, and they mentioned this case that came before
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: the Fifth Circuit on the Affordable Care Act, which could
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: mean the end of the Affordable Care Act. It's being
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: remanded back to a district court. Just in terms of
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the 2020 election, forget about 10, 20, 30 years down
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: the road with the climate crisis that we have to
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: grapple with. You know, Trump getting rid of the Affordable
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Care Act, which he's tried to do, which his Department
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: of Justice is arguing that it should be held unconstitutional,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: that's not only 20-something million Americans, more than 20 million
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Americans losing their health insurance, that could end up being
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: one of the biggest issues in an election. And Democrats
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: aren't talking about it. Not nearly enough.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I was surprised that it wasn't more of a discussion
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: during the debate last night or whatever it was. We're
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: recording this five minutes after the debate.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: On that Thursday night, whatever the date was.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, this is... It's not just impeachment.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: This is life... in the Trump era, is that Trump
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: blots out the sun on some of the most pressing
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and important issues that are either of substantive cultural importance
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: in the United States or would actually be very important
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and persuasive in the context of his reelection. But because he,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: plus Facebook, has turned himself into America's assignment editor, we
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: end up talking about the set of things that Trump
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: does and says and tweets about and not the other
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: things that are next to it. And that often inures
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: to his benefit politically.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: And I think we have to have tremendous amount of
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: discipline in the coming months in 2020 to sort of
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: fix that problem by having not only the Democratic nominee
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: in their campaign, but all the other Democratic candidates and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: all of us sort of sharing content and talking about
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: the issues that will be beneficial to Democrats in the
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: 2020 campaign. I think that's a really big deal, whether
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: it's like the rising cost of health care for people
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: and how Trump's fucked that up, student loans, like all
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: of these issues that affect people's lives in a tangible way.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: we have to be talking about how he has not
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: fixed any of those issues because that's going to break
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: through to people more than, you know, as we just said,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: him being buddies with Putin or the Ukraine stuff.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone who was making their decision on Trump's bromance
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: with Putin, they've made their decision already.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Michael Colvin asks, with more billionaires in the debates
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: now than people of color, should we have a new
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: conversation about campaign finance reform? I don't know if we
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: need a new conversation about it. We just need it
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: to fucking happen. It's the same conversation. It's just being
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: blocked by again, we're in this catch-22, we have to win.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Right, but even, this is an, I think this is
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: an important point, which is, let's say we win, we
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: get rid of the filibuster, we add two Supreme Court justices,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: we overturn Citizens United, that would have nothing to do
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: with whether Tom Steyer can buy a billion dollars for
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: the Vats for himself on the stage. You need a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: constitutional amendment to address the idea that speech is money.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Right, like, or we have to move to public financing
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of elections, which is ultimately the right thing to do,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it's what other countries do, it would, be the biggest
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: game changer for us. But pre-Citizens United, Tom Steyer could
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: have bought all those ads. Michael Bloomberg could have bought
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: all those ads. Billionaires, millionaires, incredibly wealthy people running for office,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: spending money from their own pockets is something that people
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: of both parties have been doing for a very long time.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: So I just think people should have some context that
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: when we normally think of the problems of the Citizens
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: United era, that's not Steyer and Bloomberg. That's a different thing.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: And just so people know, publicly funding elections is one solution.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: And the reason it's the solution people talk about the
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: most is having simply limits on what you can spend
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: in an election personally gets into free speech constitutional issues, right?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Right. That's why you would need a constitutional amendment. Because even, like,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: we had public financing of presidential elections for a long time.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But the system was not updated enough to keep up
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: with the cost of things. And first, George W. Bush
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: opted out of it in the primary. Then Barack Obama
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: opted out of it in the general. No one has
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: been in it really since. But even in that world,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: a wealthy person could run and they actually would have
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: an advantage in that situation because they could spend more
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: than the federal limits because the limits only work because
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: they were contingent upon receipt of the public financing.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yep. Uh, Dan asks from Twitter, what did the results
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: in the UK portend for the 2020 presidential election?
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Nothing in everything.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: What a, what a pundit answer.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Amazing. You get paid for this. Um, I mean, first
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: of all, you should all go listen to Pod Save
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: the World. Ben and Tommy have a great discussion with
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: David Lammy, who's a parliament member in the UK, about this.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: What do you think, Dan? We haven't talked about this yet.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Well, the whole connection between Brexit and 2016 and Trump's
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: victory is, I think, not discussed in perhaps the most thoughtful,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: astute way. Like, it is not a predictor of what's
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: going to happen in American politics, right? Because... it's not America, one.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: But some of the forces that led to the success
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: of Brexit originally, and then to the large sweep that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the Tories had in the UK are also present in
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: our politics, right? In terms of the geographic distribution of power,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of conservative media outlets, a whole bunch of other things
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: that are warning signs for that this could go. It's
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: not telling us what's going to happen, but I think
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: we should look at it to see if there are
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: lessons to be learned in it.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: And one pretty simple lesson is don't nominate someone to
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: run for president who is incredibly unlikable. And Jeremy Corbyn
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: had a negative 40 approval rating, which is nowhere near Trump,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: any of the Democratic candidates or any leader I've seen
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: anywhere in a while. I mean, you have to really
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: try to be underwater by 40 points.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: That's like McConnell numbers.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: That is. Nice. Very nice. And he wasn't always that way.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: When Corbyn came to power, he was, I read this,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: he was like negative two was his favorability. And he
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: went from negative two to negative 40. Just so you know,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: like Trump's like sitting around between negative 10, negative six approval.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: You know, I think all of our Democratic candidates, unfortunately
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: right now, are like slightly underwater too. Unfortunately, because of
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: polarization in this country, we may just have candidates, for
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: president now who are both underwater on their approval because
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: of what both sides do to the other one. But
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: negative 40 is special.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And the way it played itself out is also
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: you need strong, clear positions. Labor did not have a
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: clear position on Brexit. And that was what the election
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: was fundamentally about. And so we don't know anything. You
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and I specifically.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: For sure, yeah.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Fucking nothing. So listen to Pod Save the World.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: I did listen to their episode of Positive for the World,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: so now I'm an expert.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, yes. So let me hand the mic to you.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: And second, stop thinking things predict other things. That's not
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the way to think about it. It's like, what lessons
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: can you learn from a thing that happened that you
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: can apply to your different situation?
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, broad trends are one thing, but you can't do
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: too much predicting. Kaj Leers asks, up until six months ago,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: you guys slowly puked in your own mouths when you
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: heard the term electability, but now it appears you've been
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: using it Without pundit howling in despair. I don't know
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: quite what that means. What happened? How did the word
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: slip back into the show again? I don't know if
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: that's the most accurate characterization of how he did it.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: But it is a fair question, which is why I
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: wanted to address it. And I understand how this can
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: be confusing. Here's at least what I believe on electability.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: I think what we have said for a long time
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: is that it is impossible to predict what is electable,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: who is electable. And when pundits are running around predicting
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: who is the most electable candidate, oftentimes they get that
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: wrong because you are basing it on polls here and there,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: and you kind of have to just see how people
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: are voting, right? But we are also in an election,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: and I think I underestimated this at the beginning of
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: the primary as well. We are in an election where
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: so many voters are driven by, I think rightfully so,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: a fear of that Donald Trump is going to be reelected.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: And that fear overwhelms almost everything else. And so when
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: you talk to voters, whether I've talked to them in
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: focus groups, Tommy says he talked to them in Iowa
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: when he did his Iowa special, and this is all
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: he heard on the ground in Iowa. People are afraid.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: They want to nominate someone who can beat Donald Trump.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: That's what voters are saying. And they're not just saying
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: it because they heard people talking about it on Morning Joe,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: or they heard people talking about it on Pod Save America,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: or they turned on CNN. They're just people who want
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: to make sure they nominate someone who can beat Donald Trump.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: And that's not new to our current media environment or 2020.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: People have been, voters have been worried about electability as
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: long as I've been in politics. It was on the
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: front of people's minds in 2003 when I was working
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: for John Kerry and people wanted to beat George Bush. Again,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: hard to determine what's electable. That I agree with you on,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: but electability is on people's minds.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Right. The only electable candidates are winning candidates. And even
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: losing candidates may have been the quote unquote, most electable choice.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: It's not theoretical, it's hypothetical. No one really knows. I
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: think we have tried. And if we have failed at this,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I apologize, but we have tried to not make predictions
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: or assessments of which candidates are more electable than others.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: We have tried to talk about how the candidates talk
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: about their own electability.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Which by the way, they all are. And like, It's
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: not just like Joe Biden's the only one going around
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: there talking about how he's electable. On that debate stage
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: in last week's debate, Bernie Sanders was up there saying,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: I'm the most electable because I can build the largest
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: coalition and bring in the most new voters. That's his
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: electability case. Elizabeth Warren, I'm the most electable because we
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: have a corrupt president and the best contrast to a
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: corrupt president is someone with an anti-corruption platform. That's my
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: electability case. In each of their own ways, they're all
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: making an electability case because they know that's what voters
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: care about.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: And voters can and should make their own assessments about
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: who they think is most electable. I think they should
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: be eyes wide open that most of what people tell
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: them is wrong. They should be eyes wide open that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: most of the media discussion of electability is both racist
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and sexist and is viewed through this incorrect filter that
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: the way you win elections is persuading a small group
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: of white people in Wisconsin who eat in one certain
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: diner frequent by the New York Times. But you should
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: make your own assessment because... We need to beat Trump.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: And so don't listen to us. Look at the candidates.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And maybe you throw up your arms and say, I
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: have no fucking clue. This is the person I like most.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Then do that.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Do that, right?
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I'm all for that. We are all partisans, right? And
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: we're going to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is,
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to be happy about it. And probably
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: a lot of you listening are going to do that,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: and a lot of your friends are, and that's great.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And for Republicans, they're going to vote for Donald Trump
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: no matter what. They're all big Trump people. There are
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: a ton of fucking people in this country who are
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: not partisans. And we're not just talking about the white
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: guys in the Pennsylvania diner. We're talking about all the
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: people that Democrats often talk about who are people who
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: don't vote or don't vote that frequently. And for those people,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: there are certain candidates you can go talk to them.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: There are certain candidates they will vote for if that
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: person is running against Donald Trump. And there's certain candidates
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: that they won't vote for if that person is running
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: against Donald Trump. Maybe they'll stay home. Maybe they'll vote
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: third party. Maybe they'll leave the top blank. But It's
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: a real thing that there are a ton of people
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: in this country who could decide an election who are
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: not necessarily going to vote for whoever the Democrats nominate.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: And that has to do with electability. And so it's
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: a real issue in this race. And it would be
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: a disservice not to talk about it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: But it's also why you should have a sort of
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: a widened aperture about who voters are, because that it
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: may be like everyone's going to have a different way
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: of getting to their win number in enough states could
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: be 270, right? Some candidates could be better at persuading
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: the swing voters. Others could be less well, but fill
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the gap with increased turnout. And so point is, we
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: don't know. We talk about electability because voters care about it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: And we try to never tell you who we think
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: is the most electable because we do not know. I
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: wake up every day and often talk to you every
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: day about how do you think this person would do
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: or how would this affect? Cause it's just, we have
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: no clue who it is, but I think it's worth
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: talking about. I think the candidate should make their case
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: to voters about it. Yep.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: All right. Transmutable quark on Instagram. I just, that's my
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: favorite part of doing the mailbags. Is Dan doing a
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: book tour in 2020? If so, when are dates going
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: to be released?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Uh, I am doing a book tour in 2020. I
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: will start the week he comes out, which is February
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: 18th because I'm not hawking the book right now. Cause
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I promise you I would not do it. Um, There
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: are already some dates on the calendar in New York
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: and DC that first week, but I am going to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: travel a lot of places and I'm going to try
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: to hit swing states in some cases. And so I
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: will be in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, maybe a couple other
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: of those swing states.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: So that's your book tour. Yeah.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: After the new year, we're going to have a couple
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: of announcements about some fun little things we're going to
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: do to try to get this pre-order campaign going. So
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: my publisher doesn't have to tell me I told you so.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: And we will also announce the, uh, the tour dates.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I'm a shoe from Instagram asks live shows in the
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: new year. Yes. Yes. We, I don't think we can
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: make any announcements on this pod or else. I mean,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: you might kill me.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I was going to say.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: We'll double check on this. We will be back on
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: the road in the new year. It will start in March.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: We will be back on the road in March and
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: stay tuned for more updates on the cities we're going
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: to and the dates. But yeah, we're looking forward to
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: getting on the road in 2020 for sure. Izzy from Twitter.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Will John and Ira come to a truce in the
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: new year? I don't know, Izzy. Up to Ira. Up
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: to Ira. He walks by my office every morning when
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: he's here and he just spits into the office. Really? No,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: that's a rumor I'm spreading. Spread that rumor on Twitter.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Your desk is the furthest away from the door, and
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: so it feels like Tommy is getting the short end
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: of the stick there.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: It's a fucking outrage. All I do is just try
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: and try and try. I can't get on that show.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Sharon from Twitter asks, please share your top songs from
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: 2019 from Spotify or your guilty pleasure song from 2019.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: All right, Dan, go ahead.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I wonder what my guilty pleasure song is. My Spotify,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: as a father of a daughter who really enjoys Sesame
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Street songs, my Spotify wrapped was very different this year.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if any of you have ever
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: hit shuffle for your parents out there on the Sesame
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Street songs playlist on Spotify, but there is a version
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: of the Macarena that just is sneaking out there to
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: get you every time. Um, but also because I was
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: writing this year, I listened to an ungodly amount of
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: non Sesame street music and almost all of my top
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: songs were off the chance of the rapper album.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I was going to, yeah, I have a lot of
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: chance Lizzo Maggie Rogers who performed at our, uh, at
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: our show at the Greek. And then, um, as the
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: husband of, uh, Taylor Swift's biggest fan, the new lover album,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: I can blame Emily for part of this. This is
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: my guilty pleasure because she did play the album 45
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: times in a row when it first came out. But
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I have to admit, sometimes when I'm in the car,
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: I listen to it myself as well.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I sort of reject the idea that there can be
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: guilty pleasure music.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: I know. It's music.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: If you like it, it's not guilty. It's just pleasure.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: I like a lot of, you know.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: There can be guilty pleasure television shows, but guilty pleasure music, no.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: On the Taylor Swift note... Someone else asks, I would
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: like to know how the team plans to arrange a
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Taylor Swift podcast appearance in 2020. Taylor can energize her
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: fan base to vote. I am not a plant. Emily
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: Favreau did not send me. I am not positive this
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: is not Emily's burner Twitter account, first of all.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very possible.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: But we would love to get Taylor on the pod.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: She's very political these days. She's finally, as Emily always said,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: she has come out as a Democrat. She's progressive. So, Taylor,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: if you want to talk about politics, we're here, and
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: we'd love you to get plugged into Vote Save America.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: She did post something on Instagram where she had the
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Vote Save America logo on one of her Instagram stories.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Was that on purpose?
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: We don't know.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Was that a hack?
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: It's great either way. She's got a huge following. So, anyway,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: anyone who can reach Taylor, let her know. We'll have
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: her on the pod. Charcles asks from Twitter, which episode
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: of Pod Save America is It's Not Great Dan from?
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I have no idea.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I don't either.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to say that I stole that, as
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: many people might know, from Mad Men. From the famous
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: meme when, you know, Pete Campbell's in the elevator and
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Bob Benson walks in and he says, not great, Bob.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: And now it's on fucking t-shirts that you can't even
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: order because we're.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Out of stocks. It is sweeping the nation.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Dan's wife, Holly, texted and was like, how do I
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: get an it's not great Dan t-shirt for our house,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: for Kyla? She just, you know. Yeah, we.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: We finally have a few in our house now.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's good. I'm glad that you guys got some.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: All right. Leanne from Twitter asks, besides doing all your
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: podcasts where you scream into the void and we listen,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: what kind of self-care activities, routines, rituals, fun stuff, et cetera,
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: do you do to avoid going totally insane in today's
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: political climate?
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: How do we know we haven't gone insane?
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: I can't promise you that at all. What do you do, Dan?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Man, I don't do anything.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I need to do more. This is one of my
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: New Year's resolutions in the next pod.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: It's also one of mine. I do really try to
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: unplug at night from my phone.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: At least from politics on my phone. I am in
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: a very competitive fantasy basketball league.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And so I'm very dialed into my fantasy basketball app.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: But in general, I have tried. And in my house...
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Unless a president is being impeached, there is no political
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: news on the television.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's good.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: None. Debates, too, I guess. Impeachments and debates are the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: only times. And everything else is something that I find enjoyable.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. We did so well. on that for a
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: long time until impeachment began. And then we started putting
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: some cable on once in a while just to follow
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: the impeachment stuff, which made me realize how much I
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: don't like that. And so my only unwinding is when
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I go home at night to try to turn on
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: the television and watch some good show or a movie
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: or something like that. Even that though, I'm realizing if
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: it doesn't totally capture my attention, I'm still looking at
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: my phone once in a while and looking at Twitter
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: or texting you guys. So, you know, one of my
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: resolutions for the new year is I have to read
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: more and I have to read non-political stuff. I was
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: in bed the other night and like, Emily's reading a
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: book on her iPad and I'm on my iPad and
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: she's like, what are you reading? And I was like, oh,
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: I'm just reading the news. She's like, oh, you're doing work?
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, I'm reading the news for pleasure.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: And she's like, that is the saddest thing I've ever heard.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: You have to start reading. Reading things that aren't the news.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: That's a thing I did when I left the White
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: House was I do not bring my phone... When I
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: go to bed, I plug my phone in away from
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the bed and I do not look at it after that.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: And I used to read books on an iPad, but
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I would find myself being drawn to Twitter.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to turn off the Wi-Fi on the iPad.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Go on airplane mode.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: That's why I have a Kindle. Oh, smart. So you
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: just read and stay away from the news. And I
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: think that is, I think.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Embedded in this bizarre conversation we're having right now is
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: a way for people to think about the next year,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: which is it is going to be a marathon, not
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: a sprint. It is going to be fucking hard. It
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: is going to be stressful. It is going to be scary.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Trump is going to be horrendous. He's going to make
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the last three years of Trump look fucking nice. It
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: is going to be terrible. And we have a lot
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: of work to do. Everyone, right? Every citizen in this
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: country who wants to undo what Trump has done, has
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of work to do. But it is also
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: okay to unplug from the horror show, watch something good
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: on television, read a book, listen to music, talk to
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: another human being, and take a break from it. We
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: don't have to marinate in the toxic stew of Trump
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: 24-7 for the next year.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: No, I think that's wise. I mean, that leads into
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: the last question here from Christina. How should we be
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: preparing now that the 2020 election is imminent? hoarding alcohol
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: for the debates, doing specialized canvassing exercises at the gym,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: requiring voter registration proof before allowing friends into holiday parties.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: That one, fuck yes.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: That was a good one, yeah. I guess all of
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: the above. I don't know. How else should people be preparing?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I think what we're just talking about is the
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: mental and emotional preparation for it. Yeah. I think it
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: is to channel the tremendous angst we're all going to
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: have and the tremendous anger towards what Trump Yeah.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: I always think about you and I from, we started
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: this on Keeping It 1600, although we took it from Plouffe,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: you know, the bedwetting thing, right? And we said, don't
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: do bedwetting. And obviously everyone should have been bedwetting because,
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: you know, we lost the election. But really what that
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: was about, I've been thinking about the, you know, the
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: serenity prayer. That's it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: long time.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: It's like required embroidery in most people's grandmother's house.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Right. And it's also like alcoholics anonymous. They say it right.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: It's like, God grant me the serenity to know the
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: things that I cannot change. Um, the, uh, the courage
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: to change what I can and the wisdom to know
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: the difference I believe is the prayer. And, um, I
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: do think it's important to apply that to next year
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: and to politics. Like there are certain things that, in
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: this election and in politics that we cannot control and
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: we cannot change. We cannot control the polls every day.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: We cannot control what Trump does. We cannot control the
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: money that he's going to spend. There's a whole bunch
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: of things.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Can you control what headlines the New York Times uses?
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: We're trying, but it seems like we can't. Yeah, we can't.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: That's another thing. We can yell about the media coverage
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: to a point. Sometimes it works. Sometimes reporters understand and
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: they do better next time. But there's a lot of
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: that that's out of our control as well. So there's
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: a whole bunch of things that are out of our control.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: And I think, and this is a message to myself,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: as you know, that I think we need to figure
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: out the things that we can change and not spend
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of time worrying and anxious about them. And
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: then do worry about the things that we can control,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: which is getting out of our houses, knocking on doors,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: talking to people about politics, sharing content that's going to
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: help on our social media channels, making phone calls, visiting
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: swing states, right? There's going to be so much we
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: can do to affect the outcome of this election, and
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: we just have to know the difference between what we
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: can't control and what we can't.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is something we've experienced as we've traveled
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the country with Positive America, doing our shows. And I've
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: been fortunate to experience a bunch of times recently, which
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: is every time you feel dark and depressed and cynical
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: about not just Trump, but everything that led to Trump, right?
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: And the idea that so many people are okay with Trump.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Every time you feel that way, and I start to
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: get down, I find myself either on tour with us,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: or I was at a Swing Left fundraiser up in
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area last week, and you're around all these
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: people who feel the same way you do and are
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: doing something about it, right? When you can be around
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: people who have channeled that anger, that angst into activism,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: you're going to feel better.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: It's infectious. That energy is infectious.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And I would just encourage people, not just, like, you
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: shouldn't think about canvassing, volunteering, phone banking, whatever else as
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: sort of this thing you have to do because it's
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: so important. And it is important, but it is also
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: a way to manage your emotional and psychological state in
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this upcoming year.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: I will tell you, I'm really excited for all you
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: guys to listen to this season of The Wilderness. And
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: part of that was not only did I do these
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: focus groups, which sometimes can get you a But I
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: got to talk to a lot of organizers and activists
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: on the ground. We interviewed a lot of people. And
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: every day that I turned from the news to working
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: on the wilderness and working on the script writing and
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: hearing all these organizers and activists, I just felt so
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: much better. Because you just hear about these people who
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: are on the ground in these really important states doing
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: really important things. And it's not like they're all, you know, oh,
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: we're going to win. Everything's fine. But it's just like,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: They don't focus on a barometer of whether we're doing
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: well or not doing well. They're just doing the work,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: you know, and every day they're doing the work and
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: they're meeting inspiring people and they're hearing inspiring stories. And
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I do think that for all of our mental health,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: doing the work will actually help us feel better between
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: now and November because you'll feel like you're doing something.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: A few, this is probably about a month or so ago,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: it was in the middle of impeachment kicking up and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: just also this very disturbing feeling about how the Republicans
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: were responding, voters and politicians responding to impeachment. And I
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: went to this book event in San Francisco for the
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: book that Ezra Levin and Leah Greenberg, the founders of Indivisible,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: had written. And it's this bookstore, and we get there,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: and it is packed. This is a handbook for political activism.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: It is a rainy, pretty cold night in San Francisco.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: It's a Friday night, right? And it is packed, and
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: there are all these people of all ages, kids, Parents, grandparents,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: all wearing their Indivisible shirts from various, all, they've traveled,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: some cases, more than an hour to get there. And
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: you sort of, you sit in that room and you
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: talk to Ezra and Leah about what they're doing and
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: how they got involved in politics post-Trump and formed Indivisible.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, like we can do this. We
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: can do it. And that is the feeling that I
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: want people to seek out in 2020 because we can
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: do it, but we won't do it. if we sort
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: of give in to the darkness. Like that is ultimately,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: we had that earlier conversation about political strategies, right? Cynicism
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: is the friend of conservatism.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: And cynicism is a guarantee that we will lose.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, that- For sure.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Everything- Given into that is the guarantee that we lose.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Gerrymandering, voter suppression, Trump screaming at us, all the noise,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: all of that is a strategy to make you so
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: cynical that you will not knock a door, you will
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: not make a phone call, and you will not vote.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: And that is how they win.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: That's right. All right, everyone. So- Merry Christmas. It's the
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: day after Christmas that you're hearing this, which also means
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: happy birthday, Dan. I know your birthday is the 24th, right?
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: It is the 24th, yes.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: So happy birthday, Merry Christmas, and Merry Christmas to all
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: of you. Happy holidays. And we'll have a New Year's
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: resolution pod with me and John and Tommy that's going
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: to drop on the 30th next week. And then the
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: week after, we'll be back. Bye, everyone. Pod Save America
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: is a product of Cricket Media. The senior producer is
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Somanator, and Katie Long for
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Narmel Cohnian,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: Yale Freed, and Milo Kim, who film and upload these
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: episodes as a video every week.