Latest / The Trauma Therapist / There Are Many of us Put There with Christal Castagnozzi

Transcript

There Are Many of us Put There with Christal Castagnozzi · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is gimickperson.
0:04
Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
0:07
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
0:14
Speaker 1: show five four, three, two and one our folks, welcome
0:19
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
0:21
Speaker 1: guest today. Crystal Kasagnasi. Crystal welcome, Thank you all right.
0:28
Speaker 1: Crystal is a registered psychologist and the founder of Thrive
0:32
Speaker 1: Psychology Health Team. With nearly a decade of experience supporting children, adolescents,
0:37
Speaker 1: adults and families, Crystal specializes in comprehensive psychological assessments and
0:42
Speaker 1: evidence based therapy for anxiety, depression, trauma, and neurodivergence. A
0:47
Speaker 1: neurodivergent practitioner and parent herself, she brings both clinical expertise
0:52
Speaker 1: and lived experience to her work, offering a trauma formed
0:56
Speaker 1: and affirming perspective. Our Crystal. Obviously just a little bit
1:01
Speaker 1: about you, but before we going share with the listeners
1:04
Speaker 1: where you're from originally and where you are currently, and
1:08
Speaker 1: then we'll get going.
1:11
Speaker 2: So I am a first generation Canadian, So I was
1:14
Speaker 2: born in Toronto and I still reside in the Greater
1:17
Speaker 2: Toronto area. My parents are originally from Bulgaria and so
1:21
Speaker 2: they immigrated to Canada before I was born with my
1:25
Speaker 2: older sister.
1:27
Speaker 1: All Right, so how does all this start for you?
1:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely as a story there.
1:36
Speaker 2: I think for many of us in this field, without
1:39
Speaker 2: a purpose, passion might not always be there. And so
1:42
Speaker 2: there definitely was a time where I too, myself struggled
1:46
Speaker 2: with my own mental health, and I think one being
1:50
Speaker 2: a first generation Canadian is tricky, and so definitely the
1:54
Speaker 2: layers there and navigating that where you're in a society,
1:58
Speaker 2: your parents are coming from a different society, friction is,
2:01
Speaker 2: they're struggling, they're trying to figure it out and doing
2:05
Speaker 2: the best that they can with the resources that they have.
2:08
Speaker 2: But it all came to like a screeching salt, and
2:12
Speaker 2: I thought I hit rock bottom when I was probably
2:15
Speaker 2: about sixteen years old in Grade ten, and thought that
2:19
Speaker 2: I didn't want to live anymore. And so thankfully I'm
2:22
Speaker 2: alive and I'm still here, and I had help from
2:25
Speaker 2: a professional.
2:26
Speaker 3: But that's really what started.
2:27
Speaker 1: If you're jumping over all these chapters, you're giving us
2:30
Speaker 1: the intro and the epilogue. What was going on for you?
2:34
Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned the backdrop, but specifically to the
2:38
Speaker 1: degree that you feel comfortable. What were you experiencing.
2:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, like you mentioned, I am late diagnosed neuro divergent,
2:47
Speaker 2: so I didn't know back then, but the struggles were
2:51
Speaker 2: definitely there.
2:52
Speaker 3: I didn't wake up in my.
2:53
Speaker 2: Thirties and become an ADHD or autistic.
2:57
Speaker 3: It was there.
2:58
Speaker 2: I just didn't have the language to really understand that.
3:02
Speaker 2: And so traditionally I always did quite well in school,
3:06
Speaker 2: but again I did struggle with deadlines, procrastination, getting things done,
3:11
Speaker 2: and I remember there was summatives is what we would
3:15
Speaker 2: call it, final exams, assignments, all of these things come
3:19
Speaker 2: to a close at the end of the year. And
3:22
Speaker 2: I went to a school that was non semestered, so
3:25
Speaker 2: I had eight courses that I had to deal with,
3:28
Speaker 2: So that would have been eight exams and eight final
3:31
Speaker 2: projects that I postponed and delayed and put off to
3:34
Speaker 2: the very end, and so it was the end of
3:36
Speaker 2: the world that I had to get it all done.
3:40
Speaker 1: So this was going on for you, was undiagnosed? Did
3:46
Speaker 1: this show up symptomatically in terms of what anxiety stress
3:53
Speaker 1: I'm imagining.
3:57
Speaker 3: Yes, so it did show up sabbatically.
4:01
Speaker 2: I had a panic attack, which I had no idea
4:05
Speaker 2: what that was. And I remember it was the dead
4:07
Speaker 2: of winter in Canada and I was walking with my
4:10
Speaker 2: friend and I just couldn't breathe, I couldn't see. I
4:15
Speaker 2: started to feel dizzy, and she was like, do I
4:18
Speaker 2: call an ambulance?
4:19
Speaker 3: What do I do?
4:20
Speaker 2: And I was like sixteen years old, and I had
4:22
Speaker 2: no idea what was happening. In my mind, I probably
4:24
Speaker 2: thought I was having a heart attack or dying or something,
4:27
Speaker 2: which of course we know make things worse. And so
4:31
Speaker 2: that was my body showing me how stressed out I was.
4:35
Speaker 1: Right.
4:35
Speaker 2: I did go to the hospital. They did tell me
4:37
Speaker 2: it was a panic attack, but I don't think I
4:40
Speaker 2: really made sense of it back then like I do now.
4:44
Speaker 2: And I continued to push myself and then I just
4:47
Speaker 2: couldn't take it anymore.
4:48
Speaker 3: There was too many things.
4:50
Speaker 2: I felt like my parents didn't get me, they didn't
4:53
Speaker 2: get it. I felt like I was alone and the
4:55
Speaker 2: only one in this world that was dealing with this thing.
4:59
Speaker 2: And so oh, I one night was like, I don't
5:03
Speaker 2: want to be here anymore.
5:06
Speaker 3: But I'm still here.
5:09
Speaker 1: So what did you do with that one night? Did
5:11
Speaker 1: you just had that thought? Did you?
5:14
Speaker 3: Yeah? So thank you for asking.
5:16
Speaker 2: I don't know how much detail you want, but I
5:18
Speaker 2: am going to open it too, because I do think.
5:22
Speaker 1: People are going to connect with you with your story, right,
5:26
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what this podcast is about. I
5:28
Speaker 1: don't want just a thirty thousand foot view of what's
5:31
Speaker 1: going on. To the degree that you feel comfortable sharing,
5:34
Speaker 1: is a lot of people have that same experience? What
5:41
Speaker 1: was yours?
5:42
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So I guess I had said this is it,
5:46
Speaker 2: I'm done with this place, and I had some minde
5:51
Speaker 2: all and tyin a li all and I took a
5:53
Speaker 2: whole bunch right, And I remember crying and feeling absolutely
6:01
Speaker 2: like out of it. I couldn't walk and I was like, wait, no,
6:06
Speaker 2: what's happening?
6:07
Speaker 3: I why did I do this? And I had to crawl.
6:11
Speaker 2: To my older sister's room and she had she was
6:15
Speaker 2: two rooms down for me, and I crawled there and
6:19
Speaker 2: it was like nighttime, and so I literally grasped onto
6:22
Speaker 2: her and said I need help. And I guess like
6:25
Speaker 2: she woke up in a panic. My parents woke up
6:28
Speaker 2: in a panic. Didn't know what happened. I couldn't talk,
6:32
Speaker 2: I was like out of it, and so they took
6:34
Speaker 2: me to an emergency and I guess at that time
6:38
Speaker 2: they like hooked me up to IVS and try to
6:40
Speaker 2: get things out of my system. And I was okay, thankfully,
6:45
Speaker 2: but yeah, I guess I really was done at that time.
6:49
Speaker 2: And then in that's liver of a moment, I was
6:51
Speaker 2: like wait, wait, like what did I just do? And
6:53
Speaker 2: I thankfully someone was there that really one helped me physically.
6:58
Speaker 2: But then afterwards I got connected with supports from my
7:02
Speaker 2: mental health that really helped me with that and really
7:05
Speaker 2: pave the journey for me to say, hey, like I
7:07
Speaker 2: had this experience, I really struggled. Someone was there for me,
7:11
Speaker 2: and I want to do this for others as well.
7:14
Speaker 1: Well. Okay, so how does the healing journey for you unfold?
7:18
Speaker 1: And how old are you at this point?
7:22
Speaker 3: I am thirty two years old this year.
7:25
Speaker 1: So when you had that experience, I was sixteen. Okay,
7:32
Speaker 1: so you get help. Someone hears you at what point?
7:36
Speaker 1: But you said you weren't diagnosed. You weren't diagnosed at
7:38
Speaker 1: that point? We were you diagnosed with anything at that point?
7:43
Speaker 2: No? Your point and I think healing definitely is a
7:48
Speaker 2: lifelong journey, and I strongly believe that we're always healing
7:51
Speaker 2: and learning and unlearning. So even though I've healed, I'm
7:55
Speaker 2: still very much so in that state where I'm always
7:58
Speaker 2: trying to improve. But what had happened is I saw
8:03
Speaker 2: a psychiatrist at the hospital and a social worker and
8:07
Speaker 2: didn't deem meet at risk enough. So I was at
8:10
Speaker 2: home and I had to go back to school. And
8:13
Speaker 2: my mom, coming from a household of an immigrant right
8:18
Speaker 2: where traditionally mental health all of these things, it's very
8:22
Speaker 2: nuanced and we don't really talk about it, don't know
8:25
Speaker 2: how to support.
8:26
Speaker 3: I remember hearing things like.
8:29
Speaker 2: Kind of like ignored, yeah, and you know, bless her
8:36
Speaker 2: because she didn't know what to do. And she went
8:38
Speaker 2: to my high school and was like, this is what happened.
8:42
Speaker 3: Help me.
8:43
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. And I think in
8:45
Speaker 2: that moment as a teenager, I hated her for it
8:49
Speaker 2: because I felt embarrassed and humiliated. But looking back, thank
8:54
Speaker 2: goodness she did that. So of course, in Canada when
8:58
Speaker 2: there's difficulties like this, and in the States as well, right,
9:01
Speaker 2: we have systems that support students as best as they can,
9:04
Speaker 2: and so I was connected with the school social worker,
9:07
Speaker 2: which was phenomenal. It was a wonderful experience for me.
9:11
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, a part of it is
9:14
Speaker 2: I was getting involved with like the wrong crowd and
9:17
Speaker 2: skipping school, you know, not really anchoring myself in my
9:23
Speaker 2: academic success that I did have. And so this person
9:27
Speaker 2: just told me straight and kind of helped me, you know,
9:30
Speaker 2: anchor myself.
9:31
Speaker 3: And they told.
9:32
Speaker 2: Me, if I want to pursue this, because I had
9:36
Speaker 2: shared with them, you really helped me. I want to
9:38
Speaker 2: do this, that I had to put in the hard work.
9:40
Speaker 2: So they were able to help me find places to
9:43
Speaker 2: volunteer in in high school. But I had to show
9:46
Speaker 2: up and I had to you know, interview, and I
9:48
Speaker 2: had to do it.
9:50
Speaker 3: I ended up.
9:51
Speaker 2: Switching high schools through conversations with them my parents. You know,
9:56
Speaker 2: eight courses was a lot to carry. So I switched
9:59
Speaker 2: schools to wat get away from some of these relationships
10:02
Speaker 2: that were kind of putting me in a tough spot,
10:04
Speaker 2: but also to manage four courses at a time and
10:07
Speaker 2: not having to carry that heavy of a load. And
10:10
Speaker 2: so grade twelve, I went to a new school, no friends,
10:15
Speaker 2: I really locked in on my studies because I'm like,
10:17
Speaker 2: I'm going to university and that I did, and I
10:22
Speaker 2: went to my undergrad which again you know, first and
10:26
Speaker 2: second year, boy were they tough and I wanted to
10:31
Speaker 2: drop out. I told my boyfriend at the time. My
10:34
Speaker 2: parents like, I am done. I am not doing this.
10:38
Speaker 2: It is too hard. I am too tired. And looking back,
10:43
Speaker 2: I think definitely, you know, like cycle of burnout. I
10:46
Speaker 2: was burnt out, and so thankfully around the same time
10:50
Speaker 2: my school went on strike, so I had that pause.
10:53
Speaker 2: I kind of recentered, found my passion again and pushed through.
11:00
Speaker 2: In psychology. Undergrad psyche it is brutal. You learn everything
11:04
Speaker 2: and anything, and it is multiple choice. And so for
11:07
Speaker 2: someone with ADHD autism, even though I didn't know it,
11:11
Speaker 2: you struggle with executive functioning and so multiple choice and
11:14
Speaker 2: a million one things to know they don't not go
11:17
Speaker 2: hand in hand. But by my third and my fourth year,
11:22
Speaker 2: where I really focused in on therapy, you know, psychology topics,
11:26
Speaker 2: more applicable skills, counseling skills, That's when I felt more
11:31
Speaker 2: grounded and I met the next person in my journey
11:34
Speaker 2: that really believed in me and inspired me and was
11:37
Speaker 2: like you got to keep going. Because I knew I
11:41
Speaker 2: had this goal, I just didn't know how I was
11:43
Speaker 2: going to get there.
11:44
Speaker 3: And so when it got hard, was.
11:50
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a psychologist, right, and so I
11:53
Speaker 2: knew this is what I wanted to do, and I
11:57
Speaker 2: didn't know if it was possible, if I could do it,
12:00
Speaker 2: if I could get there. I realized that the more
12:02
Speaker 2: that I thought about it and try to map it out,
12:05
Speaker 2: the more anxious I got about it. And so I
12:08
Speaker 2: think my brain just kind of focused on the here
12:11
Speaker 2: and now, and looking back, I think everything fell into
12:15
Speaker 2: place the way that it did, but definitely there was
12:19
Speaker 2: that hard work along the way and those people that
12:22
Speaker 2: believed in me along the way. And so in fourth
12:26
Speaker 2: year I had a wonderful professor that was like, you
12:29
Speaker 2: should go to grad school. There's this program. It's really great.
12:34
Speaker 2: You know, in Canada we have like public institutions and
12:38
Speaker 2: private institutions. There was this program that is private, but
12:42
Speaker 2: it's more so focused on like the clinical skills rather
12:45
Speaker 2: than the research. And I think research never has been
12:49
Speaker 2: my bread and butter. So they recommended this program. I
12:53
Speaker 2: did an interview, I got in, you know, and I
12:57
Speaker 2: did this clinical psych program, which was great. I didn't
13:01
Speaker 2: struggle at all academically. I felt like because it was
13:04
Speaker 2: my passion, my interest, I was motivated. Those attentional difficulties
13:10
Speaker 2: were not as hard to keep up with, right like,
13:12
Speaker 2: I was able to manage. And then after that I
13:17
Speaker 2: did go back to you know, the field and start working.
13:21
Speaker 2: I started working in a school board with students, which
13:25
Speaker 2: was great. I've always worked in school board settings, but
13:28
Speaker 2: also private practice settings because with today's day and age
13:32
Speaker 2: and economy, I couldn't just have one job.
13:34
Speaker 3: I had to have multiples. So I liked the balance
13:37
Speaker 3: of that and.
13:38
Speaker 2: Being able to work in a school setting, but then
13:40
Speaker 2: also to be able to work in a private setting
13:43
Speaker 2: where the therapy, you know, the assessments, they were more
13:46
Speaker 2: complex and thorough. In the school system, you know, we
13:50
Speaker 2: are limited in terms of the time we have with
13:52
Speaker 2: students and the services that we could offer.
13:55
Speaker 3: So I enjoyed that balance.
13:57
Speaker 2: And then I had some kids, so I'm a mom
14:01
Speaker 2: of three. I had my first child, and I was
14:05
Speaker 2: planning for my second while also going back to school
14:11
Speaker 2: to do my doctorate. So now going back to like
14:14
Speaker 2: more of a public setting, I decided to go to
14:16
Speaker 2: the university of Toronto and do my doctorate just because
14:21
Speaker 2: I wanted to get more schooling. And so I'm like,
14:26
Speaker 2: I need to do an assessment. I know I struggled
14:29
Speaker 2: in the past with school. I know this has been hard,
14:32
Speaker 2: and so I'd like some formal accommodations. And so I
14:37
Speaker 2: went into it thinking that I had anxiety and you know,
14:40
Speaker 2: thought maybe at times when there was those lows and
14:43
Speaker 2: maybe it was depression. And the wonderful psychologist told me
14:47
Speaker 2: it was ADHD, and I was like, wow, okay, it
14:51
Speaker 2: is ADHD.
14:52
Speaker 3: I kind of wondered at some times, but I didn't know.
14:56
Speaker 3: And so.
14:59
Speaker 2: University to have a critical mind and to question things,
15:02
Speaker 2: and so naturally I did, and I did do a
15:05
Speaker 2: second assessment. And so before I started ADHD medication, I
15:10
Speaker 2: was like, I need to be one hundred and twenty percent.
15:13
Speaker 2: I want a second opinion. I want to make sure
15:16
Speaker 2: that this fits right, a little bit of the denial mindset,
15:20
Speaker 2: which did also confirm it.
15:23
Speaker 1: And then Crystal, So these assessment was with These were
15:29
Speaker 1: psychological assessments like a battery of peste.
15:33
Speaker 3: So I did.
15:36
Speaker 2: My first assessment was a psychological assessment, and then I
15:39
Speaker 2: was like, let me see what a medical doctor psychiatrist
15:42
Speaker 2: has to say, right, some differences there, and they both
15:46
Speaker 2: came to the same conclusion.
15:49
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, so wow, at what point do you
15:57
Speaker 1: learn about the now pardon my ignorance here, does autism
16:05
Speaker 1: and HGAD fall under the topic of neurodivergence or just
16:10
Speaker 1: is that just autism? They both do, yes, okay.
16:15
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so.
16:19
Speaker 2: Yeah the autism that didn't comme until later, right, So
16:22
Speaker 2: I wasn't identified early on, but this is common, right.
16:26
Speaker 2: ADHD often does overshadow or conceal autistic traits. And so
16:32
Speaker 2: even with my own clients, with colleagues, people that I
16:35
Speaker 2: know with, we all joke around and say that ADHD
16:38
Speaker 2: is like that gateway diagnosis to autism, right. I think
16:42
Speaker 2: societally it has become more you know, accepted, right, a
16:47
Speaker 2: lot more understanding about ADHD to start. We feel more
16:51
Speaker 2: comfortable receiving this diagnosis where autism or you know, is
16:56
Speaker 2: still not so much understood or accepted or you know,
16:59
Speaker 2: not there yet but hopefully soon. And so once I
17:04
Speaker 2: got that adh SHE diagnosis, I started taking medication, which
17:08
Speaker 2: like one hundred and fifty percent confirmed it because I
17:10
Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is what it's like to you know,
17:14
Speaker 2: not be distracted.
17:15
Speaker 1: Wow.
17:15
Speaker 2: And with that, definitely I felt more equipped. But of course,
17:21
Speaker 2: you know, there was grief there for that sixteen year
17:23
Speaker 2: old girl that almost died because she was struggling with
17:27
Speaker 2: ADHD and didn't have the tools to cope with it. Right,
17:31
Speaker 2: And so definitely, through my own therapy works through that
17:35
Speaker 2: portion of things. Had a couple more kids. So I'm
17:39
Speaker 2: a mom of three, and I remember social media right
17:46
Speaker 2: wonderful and many different ways. We do have to take
17:49
Speaker 2: things with the grain of salt. But I do think
17:52
Speaker 2: that in today's day and age, through podcasts, through conversations,
17:57
Speaker 2: through posts, this is where we're doing the big learning
18:01
Speaker 2: by relating to one another. And another person that I
18:04
Speaker 2: have no idea who they are posted this video about
18:08
Speaker 2: themselves and AUDIHD as we refer to it, which is
18:11
Speaker 2: odd and ADHD and I had known that the ADHD piece.
18:16
Speaker 2: I didn't know the autisum piece, even though I had
18:19
Speaker 2: worked with autistic kids. I was a psychologist at this
18:22
Speaker 2: point doing assessments. It just didn't click. And I remember
18:26
Speaker 2: it was Christmas break, just after I became a registered psychologist.
18:31
Speaker 2: I came across this video and you know, to become
18:35
Speaker 2: a psychologist, there's a lot of work, so I was
18:37
Speaker 2: likely a little bit burnt out, but I remember just sobbing.
18:42
Speaker 2: It really hit me and it was like a light
18:44
Speaker 2: bulb and I was like, this person just described my
18:48
Speaker 2: whole life in less than five minutes, and this is
18:52
Speaker 2: what I've experienced and didn't know.
18:55
Speaker 1: That in that moment. What were you identifying with specifically?
19:01
Speaker 2: I think this sense of not belonging, this chronic feeling
19:05
Speaker 2: like I am different and I don't belong and I
19:09
Speaker 2: don't know why, this chronic sense of I have such
19:14
Speaker 2: big feelings and empathy and emotions that if a friend,
19:18
Speaker 2: a loved one, and even another human being, if they
19:22
Speaker 2: describe things to me, I really do feel it this.
19:26
Speaker 2: I have been a history of like having moments of
19:29
Speaker 2: you know, shutting down, periods of burnout and just like
19:34
Speaker 2: disconnecting moments of when I was younger, having huge meltdowns
19:39
Speaker 2: and just being a handful for my family to deal with,
19:43
Speaker 2: you know, having so much wonderful skills and knowledge about
19:47
Speaker 2: certain things, but then other things just knowing absolutely nothing
19:50
Speaker 2: about and really struggling with feeling as though I am
19:55
Speaker 2: performing all the time, like it's a performance and people
19:59
Speaker 2: are judging me or crediting me. I need to be
20:02
Speaker 2: liked by others, which really did fuel into my people
20:05
Speaker 2: pleasing tendencies and my drive to be perfect twenty four
20:09
Speaker 2: to seven, all of these pieces.
20:12
Speaker 3: You know, that's just the way.
20:13
Speaker 2: That I have been, and it does come with hardships
20:17
Speaker 2: because one, we can never please everybody. People will dislike
20:21
Speaker 2: us or be unhappy with us. That's just the reality.
20:24
Speaker 2: And two, we can't be perfect. It's not possible. So
20:27
Speaker 2: I've always been stuck in this state where I'm fighting
20:31
Speaker 2: against myself with two unreal realities that I expect.
20:35
Speaker 3: And once I heard that, and I just like all clicked.
20:39
Speaker 2: All the times where I felt stressed out or overwhelmed,
20:42
Speaker 2: disappointed in myself, when I didn't want to live, all
20:46
Speaker 2: of these things were like a slap in the face,
20:49
Speaker 2: and it's like, Wow, there's nothing wrong with me.
20:52
Speaker 3: I'm not broken. I think I have autism.
20:55
Speaker 2: And so I remember telling my friends, my partner, my parents,
21:02
Speaker 2: and people were like hmm, like as if I was
21:06
Speaker 2: like out to lunch, to be honest. And then a
21:09
Speaker 2: wonderful colleague of mine around the same time got diagnosed
21:14
Speaker 2: and I had already booked my assessment. I was already
21:17
Speaker 2: on this journey, and I was like, you know what,
21:20
Speaker 2: like I need to know, I feel it, but I'd
21:22
Speaker 2: like someone else to tell me if this is the
21:24
Speaker 2: truth or not. And someone I used to work with
21:27
Speaker 2: came out and said that they were AUDIHD and autistic.
21:30
Speaker 2: And so that was that next you know, like step
21:33
Speaker 2: in my journey. That was like, okay, like you know
21:36
Speaker 2: you can be an autistic psychologist, right, because of course,
21:39
Speaker 2: like you fight against yourself to be like is this acceptable?
21:42
Speaker 3: What will people think of me?
21:44
Speaker 2: Right? But they came out and I was like, you
21:47
Speaker 2: know what, I'm doing this? So I continued on with
21:49
Speaker 2: my appointment. Actually last April, so a year ago today,
21:54
Speaker 2: in the month of autism Acceptance.
21:58
Speaker 3: Is when I got my diagnosis. And I just cried.
22:02
Speaker 2: And I think it was not cry from sadness, but
22:06
Speaker 2: it was crying from I'm not crazy. You know, I
22:08
Speaker 2: did see this thing, and you see me, you understand it.
22:12
Speaker 2: I'm not alone. There's many of us out there, and
22:15
Speaker 2: now I have the language and the framework that I've
22:19
Speaker 2: missed for this, you know, three decades of my life
22:23
Speaker 2: to really understand my experience and to support my brain
22:26
Speaker 2: in a way that I won't burn out, that I
22:29
Speaker 2: won't dislike myself, that I won't feel as though, you know,
22:34
Speaker 2: something's wrong with me most of the time.
22:36
Speaker 1: So yeah, damn, Crystal, You're amazing. Your story is like
22:42
Speaker 1: so and so you are so inspiring. I mean just
22:45
Speaker 1: you know everything you went through, and you know, crawling
22:51
Speaker 1: down the hallway grabbing your sister waking her up. I mean,
22:56
Speaker 1: my gosh, you know amazing, and then here you are
23:03
Speaker 1: founding this psychology group Thrive. Talk to us. How did
23:07
Speaker 1: that come about?
23:10
Speaker 3: Yeah?
23:11
Speaker 2: So, I mean I do attribute it to my ADHD
23:14
Speaker 2: brain for sure. That drive, that inspiration, and that like
23:18
Speaker 2: a little bit of impulsivity, right, risk taking, because opening
23:22
Speaker 2: up a business, starting something so big, there is a risk, right,
23:25
Speaker 2: There's always that fear of the unknown.
23:27
Speaker 3: And I had.
23:28
Speaker 2: This idea, and I was like, just do it, right,
23:30
Speaker 2: I don't want to live my life regretting it. But
23:33
Speaker 2: I had always worked in this community, this area. I
23:37
Speaker 2: was born and raised in this area, so it is
23:39
Speaker 2: close to home and close to my heart. There was
23:42
Speaker 2: no practice like this here, right, and so I would
23:45
Speaker 2: have to travel thirty minutes forty minutes an hour doing
23:49
Speaker 2: all of these other places, and so.
23:52
Speaker 3: That's where the idea.
23:53
Speaker 2: Came from that I don't want to continue commuting. I
23:56
Speaker 2: don't want to have this environment here not be served right.
24:01
Speaker 3: And so with that.
24:02
Speaker 2: Idea started, it did bloom and grow over time, and
24:05
Speaker 2: I think daily my passion really is confirmed just because
24:10
Speaker 2: the girl that I was, there's many children ado lessons
24:13
Speaker 2: that I work with every single day that are like me.
24:16
Speaker 2: I think today's day and age, I've about eighty percent
24:20
Speaker 2: of the assessments and the therapy that I'm doing is
24:23
Speaker 2: with people that are burnt out, that are drained, that
24:26
Speaker 2: are questioning do I have ADHD? Do I have autism?
24:31
Speaker 2: So many people are receiving these diagnoses and feeling seen
24:35
Speaker 2: and heard and you know, understood for once.
24:37
Speaker 3: In their lives.
24:39
Speaker 2: And so I think that's the passion that you know,
24:41
Speaker 2: continues my practice day and day out, because there is
24:44
Speaker 2: still a little bit of a divide in our field,
24:47
Speaker 2: believe it or not, and still some people probably would
24:50
Speaker 2: question an autistic psychologists and whether or not that's that's possible.
24:55
Speaker 3: But when we look.
24:56
Speaker 2: At the research, we really do see that our tradition
25:00
Speaker 2: methods of assessing and detecting and observing signs of neurodiversity
25:06
Speaker 2: in girls, women and other marginalized individuals is flawed because
25:11
Speaker 2: a lot of it is internalized and nuanced, like I
25:14
Speaker 2: said earlier in terms of the depression talk in my household,
25:19
Speaker 2: and so it's hard to spot and it does require
25:22
Speaker 2: a lot of deeper work, and oftentimes it can coexist
25:26
Speaker 2: with trauma and it can, you know, mirror one another.
25:31
Speaker 2: I think a big part of it is understanding if
25:33
Speaker 2: it is trauma or autism, but another part of it
25:36
Speaker 2: is it can be both, because I think in itself,
25:39
Speaker 2: being autistic or having ADHD and living a life not
25:43
Speaker 2: knowing is traumatic. It really is stressful and overwhelming, and
25:48
Speaker 2: our brain really does learn ways to protect ourselves and
25:51
Speaker 2: that typically includes masking or evolving, concealing, keeping it away,
25:57
Speaker 2: keeping it hidden. And if a psychologist in their thirties
26:00
Speaker 2: was able to hide it from themselves for that long
26:03
Speaker 2: and was practicing in the field, surely many others do
26:07
Speaker 2: as well, right, And so I think my passion really
26:10
Speaker 2: is bringing that education, that understanding. If one person here's
26:14
Speaker 2: a story and was like, oh I wonder, then I
26:17
Speaker 2: would feel happy about it because receiving that final diagnosis
26:21
Speaker 2: in addition to the ADHD has truly saved my life
26:24
Speaker 2: to be honest a second time and prevented that burnout
26:28
Speaker 2: that was surely coming if I didn't know. In the
26:31
Speaker 2: last year, I have really focused on my mental well being,
26:34
Speaker 2: my own therapy, my own unwriting of this perfectionism, this
26:39
Speaker 2: people pleasing or masking, and being my own true, authentic
26:43
Speaker 2: self that I do think is going to allow for
26:46
Speaker 2: me to be the best that I can in my
26:48
Speaker 2: field and also to take care of myself and my
26:50
Speaker 2: body the best that I can.
26:53
Speaker 3: Well, what.
26:56
Speaker 1: Could you review, just broadly the diagnostic criteria for autism
27:02
Speaker 1: and isn't it can correct me if I'm wrong? Isn't
27:04
Speaker 1: it usually or commonly diagnosed early?
27:10
Speaker 3: It can be.
27:12
Speaker 2: But I think the rate in which we are identifying
27:14
Speaker 2: it in adulthood these days has shifted, right, And we
27:19
Speaker 2: do know that our lovely friend, the DSM is getting
27:22
Speaker 2: updated in the near future, And so I'm curious in
27:25
Speaker 2: terms of what these diagnostic pieces will look like. Right
27:30
Speaker 2: and if AUDIHD, whereas ADHD and autism together becomes its
27:35
Speaker 2: own diagnosis one day, We don't know, but we do
27:38
Speaker 2: look at several different areas right.
27:41
Speaker 3: One of it being that.
27:42
Speaker 2: Restricted repetitive behaviors, this neatness for sameness or novelty with
27:49
Speaker 2: the adhdpiece. With this, it's like routine and that does
27:54
Speaker 2: not have to be rigid in the sense of I
27:58
Speaker 2: need to do ABC and D every single day. That
28:01
Speaker 2: could be more nuanced and socially acceptable, as in, like
28:04
Speaker 2: every day at work, I park in the same general
28:06
Speaker 2: area of my parking lot, right, or I have these
28:10
Speaker 2: certain sequences of getting ready every single day, and I
28:13
Speaker 2: just that's the way that I do things. In terms
28:16
Speaker 2: of the special interests, it's not dinosaurs or cars, you know,
28:21
Speaker 2: or things that we might see in childhood. For me,
28:24
Speaker 2: my special interest was actually psychology and human behavior, right
28:28
Speaker 2: because at a young age I really learned to study
28:31
Speaker 2: others and learn how to adapt, and so I fell
28:35
Speaker 2: into this field trying to understand others and trying to
28:38
Speaker 2: make a career out of it, which is an autistic trait,
28:42
Speaker 2: and really built my whole life around it, my whole
28:45
Speaker 2: passion and purpose. And so my special interest aligns with
28:48
Speaker 2: my career and working and so it is societally acceptable
28:53
Speaker 2: in terms of any other mannerisms or any other behaviors.
28:59
Speaker 2: Look back, I don't think I was aware of it,
29:03
Speaker 2: but I do fidget, I do like cross my hands
29:08
Speaker 2: and my feet, and I think likely my brain.
29:13
Speaker 1: Right now under my desk, okay.
29:19
Speaker 2: Like I do certain things with them, and you know,
29:22
Speaker 2: in absence, you know, one trait does not mean you're autistic,
29:25
Speaker 2: but all together collectively like that has been my experience,
29:30
Speaker 2: and I think as my nervous system has gotten out
29:33
Speaker 2: of fight or flight, right, I think I've done masked
29:36
Speaker 2: and I do these things more freely because there are
29:38
Speaker 2: a sense of self regulation and coping eye contact right, Like,
29:44
Speaker 2: it's hard to sustain it. Sometimes it's inconsistent. It's not
29:48
Speaker 2: that I can't make eye contact. I may prefer not to,
29:51
Speaker 2: and I give myself permission these days. I think the
29:55
Speaker 2: biggest piece in terms of for my experience is really
29:58
Speaker 2: these moments of being alone.
30:02
Speaker 3: So I am very social.
30:04
Speaker 2: I'm very empathetic, which typically with my wonder is that
30:08
Speaker 2: in you know, the opposite of autism, because we hear
30:11
Speaker 2: rumors and myths that if you have autism, you're not
30:14
Speaker 2: empathetic or you don't want to be social. And that's
30:17
Speaker 2: not the case for me and my experience and a
30:19
Speaker 2: lot of autistic individuals. We actually can be hypersocial, hyper,
30:23
Speaker 2: you know, extroverted, hyper empathetic. But it's the rest and
30:28
Speaker 2: the recovery that I need in between, right, and so
30:31
Speaker 2: after a long day of sessions, I need quiet time
30:34
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, after a week of
30:36
Speaker 2: sessions the weekend, you know, I may not always want
30:39
Speaker 2: to do fun things. I might need that alone time.
30:43
Speaker 2: And I think prior to knowing, I was pushing myself
30:46
Speaker 2: to do the most right, like go here, go there,
30:49
Speaker 2: you know, be a good mom, be a good friend.
30:53
Speaker 2: In the last year, I've been like, if I want
30:56
Speaker 2: to stay home and relax, I'm giving myself that permission
30:59
Speaker 2: to rely because my brain needs it. And so, long
31:05
Speaker 2: story short, I'm going off topic. But there's lots of
31:08
Speaker 2: different signs and symptoms that we look for to really understand.
31:14
Speaker 2: I think in adulthood we definitely like to explore anxiety
31:17
Speaker 2: and depression and mental health as well, because oftentimes when
31:20
Speaker 2: we are neuro divergent, it can make us feel anxious
31:24
Speaker 2: and overwhelmed, which can exacerbate those difficulties. It can make
31:28
Speaker 2: us feel depressed, which can also exacerbate those difficulties. Trauma,
31:33
Speaker 2: like I said, is another piece to keep an eye
31:36
Speaker 2: on and kind of understand. Exploring the autism piece is
31:40
Speaker 2: looking at those social communication behaviors, the restricted interests, you know,
31:45
Speaker 2: all of those patterns that we would see present in
31:48
Speaker 2: some capacity and form in childhood and adolescence. And then
31:52
Speaker 2: the attention piece can be either an inattentive profile, which
31:57
Speaker 2: is more of those internalized pieces where struggle with attention, planning, prioritizing, organization,
32:04
Speaker 2: or the hyperactive pieces where I maybe feel more restless,
32:07
Speaker 2: have more energy, more go go go, maybe even more
32:11
Speaker 2: busier or hard to keep up with, or those combined together.
32:16
Speaker 3: And so looking at that.
32:17
Speaker 2: Whole profile really is what we do in an adult assessment.
32:22
Speaker 2: Also with children adolescents with more nuanced cases, we do
32:26
Speaker 2: that as well. I think the interview is the biggest
32:30
Speaker 2: part of things. Listening to our clients, listening to our families,
32:35
Speaker 2: that is the biggest piece to understanding because research does
32:38
Speaker 2: show that our questionnaires, our methods, they're not bulletproof.
32:43
Speaker 3: They will miss people.
32:45
Speaker 2: And I think hearing people's voices is what we need
32:48
Speaker 2: to be doing because their lived experience is really the
32:52
Speaker 2: foundation for us to understand and not our own biases.
32:56
Speaker 2: I do hear sometimes in our field people say people
33:00
Speaker 2: are diagnosis shopping, getting other perspectives this and that, and no,
33:05
Speaker 2: people are understanding of their experience and they want to,
33:07
Speaker 2: you know, find someone that can help them make sense
33:10
Speaker 2: of it.
33:10
Speaker 3: And if we.
33:12
Speaker 2: Discount people who see on social media this thing and
33:15
Speaker 2: think they have autism, that's our own bias speaking. So
33:18
Speaker 2: I think looking at all that information as closely as
33:21
Speaker 2: possible and making sense of it is a big portion
33:23
Speaker 2: of it. And also being mindful that in a way
33:28
Speaker 2: our systems can pathologize and discriminate against people, and our
33:32
Speaker 2: criteria really.
33:33
Speaker 3: Can do that.
33:34
Speaker 2: And I think things like borderline personality disorder and bipolar
33:39
Speaker 2: disorder are big things that individuals get unfortunately misdiagnosed with.
33:45
Speaker 2: And so yeah, just looking at everything as best as
33:49
Speaker 2: we can is really my message.
33:52
Speaker 1: Awesome, all right, Crystal, how do people learn more about
33:55
Speaker 1: you and what you're doing?
33:58
Speaker 3: Yeah?
33:58
Speaker 2: So my website is www dot five dash Psychology dot
34:04
Speaker 2: ca A, and people can also see me on social
34:07
Speaker 2: media at sit with Crystal and Crystal are spelt weird.
34:12
Speaker 3: It's c h R I S T A l.
34:16
Speaker 1: Okay. We'll have all that linked up here at the
34:18
Speaker 1: shows page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. Crystal,
34:22
Speaker 1: appreciate you being here and sharing your story. It's very inspiring.
34:25
Speaker 1: You are very inspiring. Loved it.
34:30
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I appreciate it all right, take care,
34:34
Speaker 3: take care,