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Should Leaders Speak Up About Current Events? · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, dear listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we slow things down just a bit to help you communicate with clarity, with confidence, with intention.
• 0:13
  Melinda Lee: Every episode is just 20 minutes long, it's jam-packed with practical tips to help you in response to our times today, what is happening in your work and in your world.
• 0:25
  Melinda Lee: Today, we have a topic that is…
• 0:28
  Melinda Lee: difficult. It's heavy. It's geopolitical tension.
• 0:33
  Melinda Lee: We're talking about…
• 0:35
  Melinda Lee: the military conflict, the civil unrest that is happening. I actually, just looked at the news, and…
• 0:43
  Melinda Lee: even if the episode is gonna get aired later on, this is still gonna be applicable to you, but I just saw that, you know, United States is poised, strengthening our military presence in Iran, and so
• 0:55
  Melinda Lee: We don't know what's gonna happen. But all of this information impacts us, impacts us as people, impacts organizations.
• 1:03
  Melinda Lee: And so today is a really important topic to help you as a leader to be able to navigate this tension within your organization to help your people be aligned and focused as much as possible. And joining me today, I have Kimberly Davis. She's a founder of Brave Leadership.
• 1:21
  Melinda Lee: She has a signature tool called Super Adjective to help you, to help leaders in our world to mobilize with purpose, with courage, and I'm so excited to have her. Welcome, Kimberly.
• 1:36
  Kimberly Davis: It's so great to be here. I really appreciate you inviting me on. This will be an interesting conversation, for sure.
• 1:42
  Melinda Lee: I agree. And so, when we're thinking about geopolitical tension.
• 1:49
  Melinda Lee: What do you think that that means for you?
• 1:53
  Kimberly Davis: I think it means all the conflicts that are happening and unfolding around the world. I mean, I don't think it's one specific thing. It's everything that is involving the people in the world, and because our workplaces are more and more blended in terms of people coming and bringing their gifts from all over the world into our workplaces.
• 2:18
  Kimberly Davis: That means it's the tension that's happening right in front of us.
• 2:22
  Melinda Lee: Yes, and so it's very complex, it's complicated, and so there's a listener out there, a busy person, and who has taken the time to listen to this episode today. What would you hope could change in their lives when they listen to this?
• 2:37
  Kimberly Davis: I would hope that they feel like they know that they can have an impact regardless of the situation, and own the agency, have the agency to be able to do something, and that's a really hard thing to do, particularly in these kinds of situations.
• 2:53
  Melinda Lee: Oh, that is beautiful. Like, just really owning the agency that they can do this.
• 2:57
  Kimberly Davis: Right.
• 2:58
  Melinda Lee: than one thing.
• 2:58
  Kimberly Davis: Right.
• 2:59
  Melinda Lee: challenging.
• 3:01
  Melinda Lee: And so, when there's geopolitical tensions happening around us, around, you know, people are looking at their news feeds.
• 3:10
  Melinda Lee: they… people within the organizations, probably have… are scared, or they may become less productive. Like, what do you think is happening within our organizations when there's so much tension outside of the organization?
• 3:24
  Kimberly Davis: Well, I think you've got two things happening. You've got the employee base that is filled with their feelings, and there might be conflicting feelings. Some people may feel one way, other people may feel another way. Some people may be conflicted about how they feel, and what this means for them, and what their perspective is, and they don't know what they believe.
• 3:45
  Kimberly Davis: Some people may have very, very strong beliefs.
• 3:48
  Kimberly Davis: About something, because they have history and experience.
• 3:51
  Kimberly Davis: That has led them to have very strong beliefs. So there's a lot of… a lot of,
• 3:57
  Kimberly Davis: strong emotions that are going on, fear, uncertainty, vulnerability, all of the very strong emotions. And then you've got the leadership that has the same human emotions, because guess what? They're human. And yet they also feel a responsibility, and have a responsibility to know how to navigate
• 4:19
  Kimberly Davis: the situation. So, and… and…
• 4:23
  Kimberly Davis: Having the responsibility, when you are also feeling the feelings, does not make the feelings go away.
• 4:31
  Melinda Lee: And if you're not real about.
• 4:34
  Kimberly Davis: That tension between the two.
• 4:37
  Kimberly Davis: It's… you're going to come off in… you're going to end up masking yourself in a way that people won't understand. They'll think you don't care, they'll think you're unfeeling, they'll think you're avoiding it because
• 4:50
  Kimberly Davis: you disagree with them, they're gonna make meaning of what's going on, because that's what we do. We're meaning-making machines.
• 4:57
  Melinda Lee: Right. And so, not dealing with it.
• 5:00
  Kimberly Davis: Creates as big of a challenge as dealing with it in a way that's not constructive.
• 5:07
  Melinda Lee: I mean, you said something very interesting, because I liked the description of the emotions that are happening, where you have people that are very strong on the emotions on one end, and other people who are on the opposite end of that emotion, and then you have everybody in between
• 5:26
  Melinda Lee: And then some people are feeling lots of different emotions at the same time. Right.
• 5:31
  Melinda Lee: Right? And so it's very complex, and… and and then you have the leadership who… who doesn't know what to do, and they're human too, and then, but how do you think that impacts the organization?
• 5:44
  Kimberly Davis: Well, all productivity comes to a screeching halt, for sure. And I think, you know, one of the biggest challenges we face right now is that these strong beliefs and strong emotions have essentially been weaponized in our culture, and because of that.
• 5:59
  Kimberly Davis: Then we start pointing fingers, and we start blaming, and we start judging, and that completely erodes the relationships in the organization, the trust in the organization, people emotionally
• 6:13
  Kimberly Davis: are… they're… they're caught in the fight, flee, or freeze cycle. They're, you know, their cortisol levels are high, so they're reactive. And, essentially, all constructive work, it becomes reactive.
• 6:31
  Kimberly Davis: work. And so, the productivity erodes, and so does the quality of the work and the relationships, etc, etc.
• 6:41
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, and I think this is why I feel like this episode is so important, and I'm glad you're talking to me about this, because I think a lot of leaders don't stop to really dissect or really reflect on what is truly happening, and the geopolitical tension is just really not gonna go away.
• 6:57
  Kimberly Davis: Right, and I think the truth is… is that so many of us are just in survival mode right now. It's survival and reaction mode, so the biggest challenge is, is how do you get yourself out of survival reaction mode? Because if you can't do that, then you can't get anything done, and that's essentially what's real.
• 7:16
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 7:18
  Melinda Lee: And then, I mean, so let's… we describe what is happening inside the organizations,
• 7:23
  Melinda Lee: How… let's go to the leader, because we're all probably looking to the leader, whether the leader's doing anything or not. Like, let's go to the leader, and let's give the leader some really, you know, just a reflection of what might be happening, because like you mentioned earlier, you alluded to it, you, as a leader, we're human ourselves, and we should, of course, give ourselves our own compassion, and leading the organization. However, what can we do
• 7:48
  Melinda Lee: as a leader to know what to do when things are ambiguous and there's.
• 7:53
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah.
• 7:54
  Melinda Lee: Know that all this is happening within your teams.
• 7:56
  Kimberly Davis: Well, I think one of the most important things that leaders can do is really ground themselves in what the impact that they want to have on their teams. And you have to fully recognize that you do have an impact, and I think that's something that we often forget. We get so focused on our own agenda, on our own emotions, on everything that's going on in our head, that we forget that everything that comes out of our mouth, every action that we take, the way we look at people, the way we
• 8:21
  Kimberly Davis: show up in situations is going to have an impact, and that impact has a ripple effect.
• 8:27
  Kimberly Davis: And so, if we can get really clear on what is the impact I want to have.
• 8:33
  Kimberly Davis: on the environment. What's the impact I want to have on my direct reports, or on my team, if I'm more of a group person, or organization, or the culture? What is the impact I want to have? First of all, that requires ownership.
• 8:48
  Kimberly Davis: that you know you have an impact, and the responsibility that goes with that for having the impact that you can have. So, the very first thing to do would be to really anchor yourself in what's the impact that you want to have.
• 9:03
  Kimberly Davis: And once you're clear on that, then one of the things I love that you said early on in the conversation, and your work is so much grounded in this, is intentionality. So what's the… what… you know, when you act.
• 9:16
  Kimberly Davis: What's the impact you want to have, and are you acting with intention?
• 9:21
  Kimberly Davis: Because a lot of times, when we are acting, we are acting in autopilot mode. We're just… we're just doing what we do, right? And if we can bring a mindfulness and intentionality to that situation.
• 9:37
  Kimberly Davis: And think about, well, what is the impact I want to have on this individual right now, in this conversation? Well, do I want to create a safe space? Right.
• 9:45
  Kimberly Davis: then you spend your… you focus your attention on creating a safe space for that person, regardless of where the person is on the feeling spectrum, regardless of what they believe and what… and how it might be different from yours. How do you create a safe space in that moment in time? So if you can get really clear on impact, it will help drive your actions, it will help you bring more intentionality into the situation.
• 10:10
  Kimberly Davis: you face.
• 10:12
  Kimberly Davis: And the byproduct of that is your result. The byproduct is the relationship, the temperature lowering in the conversation, right? The byproduct is people feel safe in their relationship, the byproduct is…
• 10:25
  Kimberly Davis: They're going to be able to shift the way they focus their attention, and you're modeling, intentional, purposeful action in the moment.
• 10:34
  Melinda Lee: I love that. And how do you, in the moment when you create this safe space, like, bringing that in…
• 10:43
  Melinda Lee: How do you… do you have any recommendations on lowering the temperature if they're really charged with something?
• 10:51
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah, yeah, well, I think one of the first things you don't want to do is make them wrong, because… I don't know about you, but every time someone says, you know, judges me, or I feel like they're making me wrong, or they're telling me to settle down, that just, you know, that just elevates things. So giving them a space
• 11:10
  Kimberly Davis: to talk, empathizing with what's going on with them, not like… not in a pretend, performative way, but in a… so what I hear you're saying is, and you try to… to make meaning, you're really frustrated about this, or you're scared about this.
• 11:26
  Kimberly Davis: And if you say that out loud, what they'll do is they'll say, no, no, I'm not scared, I'm mad.
• 11:32
  Kimberly Davis: Right, they'll correct you, and then you'll have a way… you'll have an in to, okay, so tell me more about that.
• 11:37
  Kimberly Davis: Give them space to talk, because what happens is the emotion is really, really big. And if you can give them about 90 seconds to speak through it in a way that will lower that emotion, and they feel seen, and they feel heard without being judged.
• 11:54
  Kimberly Davis: then it will deflate that emotion, and you can actually… you actually can have a logical conversation. But there is no logic that can take place
• 12:03
  Kimberly Davis: While they're in that emotional place, and you have to be very realistic about that, and you also have to be, understanding of your own emotions, and what might be being triggered for you in the moment.
• 12:16
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, this might be okay, and so I'm gonna turn it to the geopolitical. What if they're bringing in all the drama that is outside?
• 12:23
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah.
• 12:24
  Melinda Lee: Do the conversation, to their work.
• 12:27
  Kimberly Davis: So, you know, I think it really depends on this situation, but I think you have to say out loud
• 12:34
  Kimberly Davis: I get.
• 12:35
  Kimberly Davis: that this is a really hard thing. I don't think you can pretend otherwise. I don't think you can say, but pack it away, bring it in your professional, that's not professional, because guess what? They're human. And there's this fantastic… I don't know if you've ever heard this metaphor before, but there's a fantastic metaphor that Dan and Chip Heath have in their book, Switch, How to Change Things When Change is Hard.
• 12:59
  Kimberly Davis: And life is, you know, today is all changed. But in this book, they compare our emotions with this 3-ton elephant. You know, so you imagine a 3-ton elephant walking into the room, and you can imagine the devastation that that 3-ton elephant's gonna make. And then they compare our logic
• 13:16
  Kimberly Davis: to the guy that's perched on top of that elephant. You know, he's the elephant rider. Now, when the elephant and the rider both want to go in the same direction.
• 13:25
  Kimberly Davis: Everything's cool, right?
• 13:27
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah, but when the elephant wants to go in a different direction than the rider, who's gonna win?
• 13:33
  Melinda Lee: The elephant.
• 13:35
  Kimberly Davis: the elephant all day long, right? And so we can't pretend
• 13:39
  Kimberly Davis: that the elephant doesn't exist. If we do that, we do it at our own peril, because it will destroy everything around you if you're not… if you're not dealing with what's real. Now, I'm not saying that it's all about the elephant, that's not what I'm saying, but you have to have a deep respect
• 13:55
  Kimberly Davis: For what's going on emotionally with the human beings around you, or you can't get anything done, and that's what's real.
• 14:00
  Melinda Lee: Right, right. Yeah, and so a lot of times, it's just giving them… helping them to be seen, to be really heard, to be empathetic. Right, right. And I think the other thing to really consider.
• 14:13
  Kimberly Davis: is to think about it from almost a needs assessment perspective. What does this person need from you to experience you as someone who's authentic, who is genuine, who's worthy of their trust, who they can rely on and believe in? And that's how I define authenticity, that they're genuine, worthy of trust, reliance, and belief.
• 14:32
  Kimberly Davis: And if they experience you as authentically caring, they experience you as authentic.
• 14:39
  Kimberly Davis: then they'll be able to connect with you. But if they don't experience what you're saying and what you're doing as
• 14:45
  Kimberly Davis: as genuine. If they don't think that you're worthy of their trust, if they feel judged, then they are not going to lower the temperature. They're not going to feel safe in the situation. They're not going to talk to you about what's going on.
• 15:00
  Kimberly Davis: So, I think, you know, bringing them into the conversation about, you know, these are really hard times.
• 15:08
  Kimberly Davis: And I'm not gonna pretend otherwise.
• 15:10
  Kimberly Davis: And…
• 15:12
  Kimberly Davis: And at the same time, we have these things that we have to get done. What are your ideas on how we can accomplish that? Bring them into the conversation. You don't… I think one of the things that leaders forget is they don't have to have all of the answers, and they should not pretend that they're not human, and that they… and pretend that they're superhuman.
• 15:31
  Kimberly Davis: I think the more that a leader can say.
• 15:34
  Kimberly Davis: you know, this is hard for me, too. I'm struggling with this, too. What it does is it takes down that mask.
• 15:40
  Melinda Lee: And you can connect human to human instead of title.
• 15:44
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, no, that's perfect, because I was thinking about the leaders, the CEOs out there that are probably thinking, I don't have time to listen to this person, vent about all these other things, and so it's really great that you're, you're finding a connection, how I, as a leader, can connect with the person, take down the mask, and connect with them in some way.
• 16:02
  Melinda Lee: Right. And then, and then you can transition them, into, hey, you know, I believe that we could do this together, I need your help, let's do this together, what, what do you think about XYZ
• 16:13
  Melinda Lee: What are some of the things that you have, solutions that you have about.
• 16:16
  Kimberly Davis: Right.
• 16:17
  Melinda Lee: Project in this hour.
• 16:18
  Kimberly Davis: And maybe reprioritizing things, you know?
• 16:21
  Kimberly Davis: Things that aren't as urgent as we had previously thought.
• 16:26
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Kimberly Davis: It allows us to make some space for the real emotions in the room, because the real emotions, if we're not dealing with them, they will win.
• 16:34
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I agree. And so you're talking a lot about, what we can say to people as a leader who, has people who are emotional, but what about me if I'm a leader and I don't say anything? Is that okay? Like, when do… is it okay that.
• 16:50
  Kimberly Davis: Well, I think that's… the thing is, is we have to remember that when there's an absence of information, and saying something is a form of information, right? When there's an absence of information, our brains are going to fill in that empty space.
• 17:04
  Kimberly Davis: And it's often not going to fill in in the way we want it to fill in, right? People don't always assume good intent. People will decide what you think, even without you saying something. They will decide what that means. That means you don't have the courage, that means you don't care, that means…
• 17:25
  Kimberly Davis: You don't like me, that means you disagree with me. They're gonna make a meaning out of it. And…
• 17:32
  Kimberly Davis: We are responsible for the impact that we have.
• 17:36
  Kimberly Davis: Right? So… So, if people are out there making meaning about what you're thinking and feeling about things.
• 17:45
  Kimberly Davis: What's the impact of that meaning? Well, the impact of that meaning is eroded trust. The impact of that meaning is you're not going to be able to influence them. The impact of that meaning is they will emotionally hold back.
• 17:59
  Kimberly Davis: The impact of that meaning is they will start to disengage. I mean, the impact of that meeting
• 18:05
  Kimberly Davis: it snowballs to the fact where… where if you would have just said something, you would have been better off. But how you say it is important. How you say it's really important. And I think, you know, one of the things that's really, challenging in these times
• 18:24
  Kimberly Davis: Is, if we're really clear about the impact we want to make.
• 18:28
  Kimberly Davis: It shifts the way we look at things, because a lot of times we get really… I mean, like, for myself, I'm a very emotional creature. I have very strong beliefs about things.
• 18:38
  Kimberly Davis: And I also know that what I want to do in the world is to create positive change. That's what I want to do.
• 18:47
  Kimberly Davis: Right? So, if I go out into the world and shout my personal beliefs, Through my unfiltered bullhorn, right?
• 18:59
  Kimberly Davis: I cannot create change, because the people that actually I want to influence will not listen to me. They'll be like, talk to the hand, right? So you have to think, what does the person need from you?
• 19:12
  Kimberly Davis: To experience you as genuine, worthy of trust, reliance, and belief. To experience you as authentic, so they can hear you, so you can have an impact.
• 19:21
  Kimberly Davis: On them. Because if they cannot hear you, you cannot have an impact, and that is what's real.
• 19:28
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 19:29
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love that. So really being intentional in what my audience needs. And when you see that they're starting and potentially creating stories, making things up, that's definitely the time to speak. And I also want to add that, that's, like, the discernment as a leader, right?
• 19:49
  Melinda Lee: the time to speak. And… but there are going to be times when you… it's okay not to speak. Like, for example, if the organization… you have to really think, going back to your point, what is the impact that we want to make? If speaking is going to be too early, not enough information… like, if speaking requires… it's going to cause more demise, cause more confusion, then it's probably better not to.
• 20:11
  Kimberly Davis: Well, I don't know, I mean, I think there's… it's… there's always space to say.
• 20:16
  Melinda Lee: I don't have anything.
• 20:18
  Kimberly Davis: I… I… this… this… I'm not gonna pretend this is hard… this is easy.
• 20:22
  Melinda Lee: Correct.
• 20:22
  Kimberly Davis: I'm not gonna pretend that, because this is not easy, and what we are all dealing with is scary, it's unsettling, you know, we have a lot of different feelings packed into this, and I don't have the answers.
• 20:35
  Kimberly Davis: And I promise you that I… I am searching for the answers, but more than likely, we're gonna have to find the answers together.
• 20:44
  Kimberly Davis: And what that's going to require of us is coming together and learning to listen to each other and being curious with one another.
• 20:52
  Melinda Lee: And so I, you know… I think the message has to be very clear, like, and an intention, so if we… if you as a leader can take the audience there to that place, that would be appropriate. But if I am a leader, and I'm thinking I'm not there yet, I may not… I might not be emotionally ready to deliver that.
• 21:10
  Kimberly Davis: Nope.
• 21:10
  Melinda Lee: So, you know, discern, and then know that what kind of impact you want to make, and then it's okay.
• 21:15
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's absolutely right.
• 21:17
  Melinda Lee: Because.
• 21:18
  Kimberly Davis: As we can't come in…
• 21:20
  Melinda Lee: It's weird.
• 21:21
  Kimberly Davis: Leaders emotionally hijacked.
• 21:23
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:23
  Kimberly Davis: And be able to serve. That's not possible. Right. It's not possible.
• 21:28
  Melinda Lee: okay.
• 21:28
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah, and that's okay, and you know what? Maybe that's… that's… if we… if we circle back, maybe that's even the thing to say, is say.
• 21:36
  Kimberly Davis: I'm feeling my feelings right now, and I want to be there, and I'm… I'm… I want to be able to navigate this in a healthy way with you.
• 21:45
  Melinda Lee: I'll get.
• 21:45
  Kimberly Davis: Why?
• 21:46
  Melinda Lee: I can.
• 21:47
  Kimberly Davis: Not!
• 21:48
  Melinda Lee: Why pretend otherwise? Because it's in the pretending.
• 21:53
  Kimberly Davis: It's in the masking, it's in the silence that… that all of the instability floods.
• 22:00
  Melinda Lee: Hmm.
• 22:01
  Kimberly Davis: floods in.
• 22:02
  Melinda Lee: I love it.
• 22:04
  Melinda Lee: I agree. I agree. Over-communicate? Well, with intention.
• 22:10
  Kimberly Davis: Yes, be intentional. Allow yourself to be human.
• 22:15
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 22:15
  Kimberly Davis: In a… in a way that… that…
• 22:18
  Kimberly Davis: So, with healthy boundaries in place, right? And I think that's something, we also have to be careful of, because if your boundaries aren't healthy.
• 22:29
  Kimberly Davis: then… Then you could be causing more damage than good.
• 22:36
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 22:37
  Kimberly Davis: So, being able to know what is oversharing?
• 22:44
  Kimberly Davis: personal oversharing, right? Versus… healthy vulnerability, there's a difference.
• 22:51
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 22:51
  Kimberly Davis: And I think kind of the rule of thumb is if, you know, if this is something you would tell your psychiatrist, then that's probably oversharing, instead of a close friend. But I also think you've got to be very careful about… about making people wrong.
• 23:09
  Kimberly Davis: Making people wrong without approaching with curiosity, because…
• 23:13
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 23:14
  Kimberly Davis: That could cause even bigger problems that were completely unintended.
• 23:20
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 23:22
  Melinda Lee: So key, so key. Very helpful, Kimberly. And so I'd like to… I'm learning so much about just being a leader, and then allowing ourselves to just be human as we navigate these tensions that are all around us, these conflict and unrest around us. It's very helpful to remember to stay grounded, to be intentional with our message.
• 23:45
  Kimberly Davis: Yeah.
• 23:46
  Melinda Lee: Remember what is the impact that we make, and to remember that we do have impact.
• 23:50
  Kimberly Davis: Yes, and I think that's so huge. And you know what? When you remember that you have impact, what's great about that is that you don't have to wait to have the impact, right? And I think some people think, oh, it's an all-or-nothing thing, but…
• 24:04
  Kimberly Davis: you know, you can have an impact on the very next person you come across, if it's intentional. What's the impact you want to have? What's the impact I want to have on you right now? What's the impact I want to have on you who is listening right now? If I can be really intentional in that, that changes things. Because when you're not showing up with that kind of intentionality.
• 24:24
  Kimberly Davis: Then you aren't able to be and bring your best self to the situation.
• 24:29
  Melinda Lee: I love it. And so what is the one key takeaway that you would hope, someone remembers?
• 24:36
  Kimberly Davis: Oh, it's really all about owning… owning your own power, and recognizing that you have an impact in every situation you face, whether you like it or not, and and that's also where your power lives, so…
• 24:50
  Melinda Lee: Love it, love it. Thank you so much, Kimberly. It was so great to talk to you about this.
• 24:55
  Kimberly Davis: It's been a joy, thank you so much, and we're all navigating this stuff together, so I really appreciate you having these hard conversations.
• 25:02
  Melinda Lee: It is timely, so thank you.
• 25:04
  Melinda Lee: And thank you, audience, for being here. Remember, anytime you have opportunity to communicate, you also have a chance to connect, and to inspire, and to make a positive difference in the world. Until next time, I am your sister in Flo. Take care.
• 25:21
  Melinda Lee: Bye-bye. Bye, Kimberly.
• 25:23
  Kimberly Davis: Bye!