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Naked Hiking the Tahoe Rim Trail with Dom · Off You Pop!

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is Off You Pop, the podcast for hikers and adventurers who want to be epic in just one day.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're heading into one of the West's greatest long loops, the Tahoe Rim Trail.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Twelve days, 170 miles, and a full circle around the lake that hikers think they know until they try to walk every inch of it.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest didn't just hike the TRT, he lived it.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: The heat, the granite, the long ridgelines, the quiet mornings, the mental resets, the small wins, the big climbs, and the moments where the trail gives you something you didn't know you needed.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is about what really happens when you commit to a moldy day effort.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: The pacing, the psychology, the logistics, the surprises.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the way a trail this big changes how you see yourself when you come back home.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Tahoe Rim Trail, and this is our guest Dom, who's just completed it.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this is Off You Pop.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Dom, welcome to the show.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for agreeing to be on this and sharing your experience on the Tahoe Rim Trail.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe just as an icebreaker you can share, you know, what you love about hiking so much and give us a little bit of a reason why you decided to take on the the Tahoe Rim Trail and why in in just twelve days.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Phil, thanks for having me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see, to start off, my whole reasoning for hiking could be a bit deeper, but my interest in doing the Tahoe Rim Trail started about a decade and a half ago when I moved to Nevada, and it had been something that had been in the back of my mind and seemed slightly out of reach.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I had slowly worked through it for the years and working toward that goal.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually I realized I'm not getting any younger and it's not getting any shorter.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I really appreciate that that honest answer there.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm aware of the Tahoe Rim Trail and I met a a local guy, a Reno-born guy, who said he had actually worked on constructing it when he was a kid.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I can appreciate that you finally took the plunge and got it done.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So before you uh before you started uh on the hike, what did you think the TRT would be like and how accurate was it when you were out there?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go into situations like those and you try to expect and plan and just any potential thing that could go wrong just to prepare for it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not as hard as most people make it out to be.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of the uh mental aspect to get over.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what your challenge is out there is getting over the mental aspect of waking up every day and putting yourself through it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there are several different types of hikers.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some people like to take it a little bit slower, some people go faster, and I split it into a nice even 12 days, even though that's a little bit on the slow side.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's still, you know, several 12 to 16 mile days in 122.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's really just preparing for it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard to explain if you've never tried before.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I you know I get that, and I you know, I always think, you know, one day I love to do that, but how do you how do you get through like 12 days of being on the trail?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you could just help us like through it.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Walk us through like day one when you hit the terrain or the rhythm, you know, and the reality of the challenge.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: What what was it like on that first day?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: The first day I was really filled with just overwhelming excitement, and I was just so enthused, and I had met several people that were already on the trail and had been several days in.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it very quickly gave you a sense of camarader for the people that you meet on the trail.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a huge, huge group of people that are really big into that hiking community, and if you know where to look, they are absolutely everywhere.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that helped me settle in the absolute quickest.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: That that's great you said.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I actually walked up from to Snow Valley Peak, which I think is one of the side hills you could do, and it was quite early in the morning I got up there and there was a group of three young women who were coming down the trail, actually on the Tahoe Rim Trail that I was transecting at the time, and I said hello, and they were also they had that sort of energy about them, and they they had just started the Tahoe Rim Trail.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was their second day, and you could tell that they were full of uh enthusiasm.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you think there was a moment sort of early on when you thought this might be harder than I expected?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I started, I had recently upgraded into boots that I had only been breaking in for a month, and you should wait two to three months before you use any new shoes on a trail to really break them in, unless they're a higher grade.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are some that break in within a week or two.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: But by that third day with those brand new boots, I had already accumulated five blisters, and it was an absolute slog for me on that third day.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but that third day was also when I had a family member come pick up my dog because at that point I was 38 miles in, and I thought that was enough for her.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I had my old shoes brought to me, which hugely made the rest of the trail just dramatically easier.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: But at that third day, I was pretty prepared to give up.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was down to maybe a mile an hour, even on some of the flats, and it was just grueling.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love that you bought in in Blisters, you know, our off-the-pop, off you pop podcast is twin with our company Blister Pop Adventure.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did did any of those blisters end up popping, or you were you managed you managed them okay in the preceding days?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I managed them pretty fine.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I only had one blister that ended up popping on me.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I had plenty of mole skin with me.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean if it had turned any differently, it it definitely would have probably cost me that trip.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you find your daily routine evolved?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm obviously you know you're in your fresh on the trail the first couple of days, you're sort of finding your way and getting yourself into a re routine, but what did you th find out you know eventually sort of worked for you?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well the biggest thing for me was how you're gonna break up your day, if you're going to consistently hike from sun up to sundown with whatever consistency you're looking for, or if you're going to start the day, take a decent long lunch, you know, a good rest break, and then continue.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: The difficult part is after you start hiking and then you stop, getting back into that rhythm can be very, very challenging.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I l I love that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know you went over 12 days, but maybe you could like walk us through sort of the route you took each day, sort of what were your segments as you walked around the lake and sort of give give people sort of an idea of what each of those segments is going to look like if they decide to take on uh the Tahoe Rentrail.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was broken up fairly nicely.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I did a solid itinerary.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: My first day was clockwise out of Tahoe City, and that's your first day leaving out of the basin.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Taho City is your lowest point.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of, depending on if you're going clockwise or counterclockwise, the largest vertical gains that you can get.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't too bad, I think it was just over 3,200 elevation gain, but I walked from Tahoe City to Grey Lake, Grey Lake to Eagle, and that one is also a big one.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: You start approaching Relay Peak on day three, and then by day three I stopped just shy of Mount Rose down in those meadows.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there's several other big ones where down on day six when I was approaching Frio Peak has quite the elevation change, leaving out of North Kingsbury, once you have to come down into Kingsbury Pass and then back up, that's a lot of vertical there.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, really anytime that you're dropping down back into the freeway pass and then heading back up to the rim.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Those are those are some of the more challenging days.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't say that there was more than you know three really really good, tough, challenging days for me.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So everything else was spread out fairly easy.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you what would you think is the is the toughest day on the entire loop?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what specifically do you think made that particular leg really tough?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: For me, for me it was definitely just after day seven.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I had added several extra peaks while I was going through the trail because I didn't just want to complete the trail.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to explore the different peaks that I hadn't seen yet, being somebody that's local.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there have been a few that I haven't been to just yet.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the hardest days for me was just at the end of seven.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: I had already completed a 16-mile day, and I just gotten past, I want to say, Star Lake.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just after Star Lake, you run into Freel Peak, and Freel Peak is a one mile, one thousand foot elevation gain.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I added that after having already completed my 16-mile day to catch sunsets.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that was one of the steepest climbs that I think I had overall.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So by the next day for day eight, I was really feeling that youthful energy that I had to just run up an extra peak that was rather steep in hindsight, but uh 100% worth it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had I've also climbed up frill actually in the last month, and so it's fresh in my memory as well, just how steep that climb is up there, and just that loose sand that sort of saps the life out of your legs as you're going up to the top.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, 100% worth it.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I can imagine just how exhausted uh you were that evening and and maybe even into the next day.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you think was the best day?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which one would you relive if you could?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Easily I'm gonna have to say Twin Peaks.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Twin Peaks was one of the most beautiful climbs that I had.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You go off trail, and I want to say less than half a mile at a slight vertical climb that may be about 30%.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And as you continue to climb, you eventually run into where it stops and becomes just boulders.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there are about a hundred to a hundred and fifty foot climb on just those boulders to get up to the top of Twin Peak, and it was so gorgeous by the time I got up.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see closer to 95, if not more, percent of the lake.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the most beautiful view I had seen.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was from the west shore, a mountain I hadn't done before, and it was in the desolation wilderness as well, which was my first time heavily staying in.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not one of the big popular climbs, so it's that's a real pleasant surprise.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely gonna put that one on my list.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have any sort of trail magic moments on on the hike?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Was it sort of any unexpected moments of kindness, or did you have any unexpected wildlife encounters?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest wildlife that I had was a few marmots and what I assume is a local wild grouse.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: But my to my surprise, I actually did run into my first trail magic after that day seven, which I sorely needed.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: When I pulled into camp on my day eight, I ran into, by coincidence, the partner to another hiker who was training for doing a 57 miler for five days straight.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember his name, but he goes by rabbit.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's done the PCT a couple times.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Very great fellow, Canadian, very, very kind.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she just so happened to pull up as I walked in to camp, and she could see on my face just how exhausted I was and offered me lots of fresh fruit, a little bit of you know, Skittles for some good sugar refill, and had a fantastic time.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Got to meet her partner Rabbit and their friend as well, who came in just 10 minutes shy after Rabbit left.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he was just pacing behind him the whole trail trying to keep up, and they were doing you know 35, 40 plus mile days.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: So these are just different breeds of human beings compared to me.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I'd help push 20 if I can.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's really awesome.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, thinking about you know your mindset on the trail, how do you think it shifted from you know at day one excitement and it through sort of day twelve?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like I said, a couple different types of hikers.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So where you can go for your mindset, I think will vary depending on the person, but for myself, I found myself returning to um almost a child airlike state.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I should make it aware that while I did my hike, I carried around a hiking stick with me instead of trekking poles, and this was a decision that I spent months mulling over before I decided to commit to it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And my hiking stick is over four pounds, so it's quite quite the strenuous little thing to have on you.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I wanted to complete the trail, not just do it.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So after several days on the trail, I reverted to this kind of child's like state of when I was just a child, and I used to run through Yosemite with my family around age 13, maybe 14, and I would run up the riversides while they stayed on trails, or I would jump up trees, and there was just this sort of magic that you felt as a child that rekindled with me after being off trail for so many days.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I really love that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: That speaks a lot to the you know the effect of being back and reconnecting with nature.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So so you talked a little bit about you know some of your tougher days.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Were there any strategies that kept you sort of composed when that fatigue or or doubt crept in that you could share?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would say when I got into those moments and I really thought that and the worst was that day three, just having those blisters, that was the largest obstacle to overcome for me.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And even later on days when I was pushing nine, ten, and eleven, I was not nearly as defeated as I was with all those blisters.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the recurring thoughts that kept pushing me forward is knowing that regardless of how difficult it would be or to what depths I needed to pull from my own will to keep going, that it would potentially be one of the greatest adventures of my life.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sort of keeping your eyes on the price.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've chosen to do this and I really wanted to do this and I'm gonna I'm gonna see it through.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did did you surprise yourself with your own capabilities as the as the days progressed?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely seemed to get easier.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, that third day was really the worst.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: So everything else afterwards, even the compiled exhaustion and fatigue of the body toward the end were not nearly as bad to deal with.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it felt extremely easier to get through the rest after that initial hard point.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming you you took some some gear with you.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Which which things do you think were you know the right choices and whether was there anything you took that you would potentially change if you did the hike again?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very big on the decision of doing this hike of where I wanted my head to be at.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this thing called naked hiking, where you don't GPS, you don't map, you don't music, you simply hike.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I really considered doing that to enhance my reconnection with nature and to kind of remove the rest of noise from society that we go through in a day-to-day life.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And while I did end up bringing my headphones with me, I actually only ended up using them on three days of the hike.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was my first day, my halfway point at day six at my buddy's house.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as I was finishing up on my last day for day twelve when I was trying to push out that last 22 miles.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really that's really uh really interesting because I also find like if I'm in an urban area exercising or hiking, uh I think the music is okay, but then when I'm in the wilderness, I it's something I I try and drop because I'm trying to reconnect with with nature and try and sort of em embrace the the landscape and the you know the sounds of of of the wilderness.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, one of the challenging things over 12 days is you know how you manage your food and your water and your resupply.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about that?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so as I'd mentioned after day three, which was a quarter, I dropped my dog off to a family member, and I was lucky enough to have refill dropped off to me as well.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So from day one to day three I had a pick up, day three to day six I had a pick up, and from day six to day twelve I had to carry my biggest amount of pack weight, and I ended up pushing I think closer to thirty-seven pounds when I weighed off.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I did do well, however, I did not account the accumulative fatigue of my body, and I did not introduce enough fats into my rations that I had.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I noticed a longing hunger even after I had had my allotted amount of protein and calories, and there still just wasn't enough to it to refuel me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had actually planned adding to lac and pushing into day 13, even though I had up to 16 days because I still had the following weekend if I needed.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: But by the time I got to day 10, I realized that I was consuming a bit more than I needed, which was why I made day 12 a 22 miler.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I do wish that on that second half I had packed snacks that were a little bit fattier, a little bit savory, uh, or more savory.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I still had great snacks, of course.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I do wish I packed a couple extra for the days, and I feel like that would have given me the extra time through Desolation to explore two more mountains that I wanted to add, but I'll revisit them eventually.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a little bit less human dog food?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you uh did you find any any any challenges with water on the trail?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Was there plenty, you know, streams and creeks available?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I did do it at the height of summer, and my reasoning for that was I was hammock camping.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: It does save a small amount of weight to use a hammock and a tarp than it does to pack a tent with the poles.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I decided to do the warmer days just so my nights wouldn't go below 40 degrees.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: It starts getting real tricky when you break freezing and you have what's called cold rump, the wind blowing underneath you and a parachute material can really, really sap the heat out of you.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something to be very cautious of.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as water, the driest parts are the northeast end of Tahoe.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the longest stretch I had without a good water source, I think was only 13 miles, which if you're in decent enough shape, you can fill up at your last water source, maybe carry a liter or two, depending on how much you consume, and then refill at your next stop.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important not to overcarry water weight as it's 2.2 pounds per liter, but everybody has their own body type for how much water they consume per mile that they're walking.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I happen to have just lucked out and not had to carry more than an ounce.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's fantastic.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And good good to know there's plenty of water and just be cautious in that northeast corner.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think there was any like big mistake you made that other hikers could avoid?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm absolutely going to say be sure that you break in your shoes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they're just the shoes that you trained in and they're old and beat up, the shoes that I used had two broken laces on them on each foot, and they still ended up working perfectly for me over some new boots that were just stiff and rigid and just not working for me.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's great advice.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So how did finishing the loop sort of change the way you see Lake Tahoe and and yourself?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the biggest element is I think is the appreciation that you have to put into it.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It depends if you're just doing the trail or if you're really watching it as you go.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And my greatest reflection of Tahoe was I spent as often as I could, time allowing, of course, on different hills and different mountain ranges to observe all of Tahoe and to just take in the different ridgelines and see yourself and your progress as you're going is is really rewarding in a way that you just can't explain unless you experience it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I haven't now touched on each of the corners of Tahoe myself.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I also have a new appreciation for that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just one mountain range.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Each of the segments that you sort of move through from the desolation wilderness, the Granite Chief Wilderness, the Mount Rose Wilderness, and even there on the on the east side on the Carson Range are just very different mountains with very different aspects of the lake.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I could imagine twelve maybe even twelve days isn't enough to fully experience how wonderful the the Tahoe Basin is.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what's the what's the biggest takeaway that you've brought back from your trip into your into your everyday life?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would have to say just appreciation and gratitude, true, true humility after you become reliant on getting from a point A to a point B and laying out the rations that you have.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You assume this more maybe primal mindset is the correct word.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a different outlook that you have to appreciate things in life that are just so simple to walk up to a faucet and flip it on and you all of a sudden have water.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's not something that you know you have out there.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So the appreciation for it is just hugely satisfying as compared to how it was before.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So just that gratitude and the humility to just have everything at your fingertips that you could possibly desire is qu just mind-bottling.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's somebody listening out there like me or my friend who says he helped build the trail but has never never hiked it, what's the one piece of advice you'd give them?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: I would say have a comfortable setup with you so that you can truly appreciate your sleep.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I brought a very plush pillow with me that is a flat dog bone.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it just sits at the base of my neck and it gives me the most restful sleep.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I also got to use my hammock in middays, so I would take short little lunch breaks or even naps during the day in between hiking.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would do like 70-80% of the day, take a small rest respite, and finish the last few miles for the rest of the day.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it was it was those sitting moments that I really appreciated what I was doing, the reflection throughout the day, and just the freedom to throw up the hammock in so many different spots to appreciate the different views, the different topography of the mountain ranges, the different rocks, the materials, the plants that grow in different areas, the wildlife.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's just so many aspects to appreciate on the different sections.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: That that's what I would recommend.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe maybe a chair if that's something that's suited to you, or maybe a hammock like myself, but to just stop as often as you can to appreciate the changing of your environment as you're going through it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's fantastic advice.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Any final thoughts on the Tahoe Rim Trail?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would say do lots of exercises to help with your knees.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably the biggest.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: You have over 40,000 elevation gain throughout all of Tahoe.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that is probably the biggest.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was lucky and I've been in good health most of my life and always active, so I tried to stretch as often as I could morning before I started my hiking, afternoons when I was done, and I didn't get my first cramp until day 11.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I was extremely fortunate to be in good health, but I would absolutely recommend train your knees in as many ways as you can.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: There are several great exercises that I would recommend to help with uh downwards downhill climbing is probably the most important that's over time going to take the most energy out of you.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Don.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh that was fantastic, and I really enjoy this conversation.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the Tahoe Rim Trail.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just a loop around a lake, but a loop around a person.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Twelve days where the world shrinks to the width of a single track path and expands at the same time into something bigger than your everyday life.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: You start with a map and a plan and maybe a fear or two, and you finish with a story that only exists because you kept walking.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Dom.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciated this conversation with you, and I think a lot of folks are gonna get a lot out of what you've said.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really hope we can have other conversations about the other great adventures that you're having.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it, and I hope, you know, maybe my words will reach somebody to appreciate just a little bit of a different aspect of something that a great trail might have to offer them.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now this has been Off You Pop.